I am Pink, have been posting on a Newcomers since I joined this forum, but now I came to a crossroad that I need some extra help.
I was told by many and some Vets my XH is an MCer and was reluctant to accept that as a fact. I thought he was lost, confused, that he would be back home soon, then that he fell out of love with me, hated me and so on.
Then I started trying to understand that even when I am trying to move on with my life I still have my XH around, very present into my life.
I am tired of all this and I do not really know what to do anymore. I accepted my M is over, I am busy, I never call, text, snoop, I basically took myself out of the equation, but then why I am still being pulled back into all what is going on?
I guess the hard part started on last Thanksgiving when I finally stood my ground and said to XH that I did not want to be intimate with him. He still lay down beside me, hugged me, kissed me on my face, but nothing more. He tried in the morning and again I said no.
Then he started talking about OW and that he does not know what she wants and thinks that she doesn't know what she wants either. That he has feelings for her yet. I listen and just said that I am sorry he finds himself like this, that I hope things get better for them.
I went downstairs and he started talking about our R, how he has been thinking and he can see now how much of a Jerk he has been to me for so many years, that he was not present and gave his support when I needed. That he made one mistake on top of the other with the decisions he made for himself and that now he needs to pay a heavy price for what he though was right.ur D.
I said that things are almost done, that he needs to take his stuff from the house, we need to solve a few more paperwork and that it would also be done soon enough.
He left and was back in about an hour asking for forgiveness, saying that he was not right disrespecting me that way, that he is a Jerk and he loves me and will always love me even now after our D.
After that day and all what happen I decided to go NC, totally dark. Part because the DB but most for my own sanity. I was not home when he came to pick up "our sons" as he says, I did not answer his texts, emails, or even some calls.
A sunday before XMas he asked to hang at the house and sat down here for about 3 and half hours and said about half a dozen words to the kids, nothing, he did not even move. It was awkward, weird.
He left to Virginia to spend XMas with his family, once back he came to the house and got here a little before the time he said he would be here so I was still there. He started talking to me, I gave him short answers and did not engage in any subject.
He saw I was getting ready to leave and asked me for a few minutes of my attention. Then started asking why I did not contact him about the kids gifts. I said that I did what I need to do, S15 told me that he mention he would pitch in with a $100 and that is what I did.
He said that I needed to call him and discuss our plans and I said that he won't see me doing that ever. That I have my budget, decide what I need and want to do and that is all. I won't put my nose in his life and that it is not my business. That if he wanted to be part of something else about Xmas then he could have arranged that in advance.
He then started saying that it is all happening because I am ignoring and avoiding him. I just said that he should be happy I do not bother him like a crazy Ex Wife, that I am busy and do not have anything to talk to him.
He went on this long explanation about being good parents and doing what is best for our kids. I listen and just did not answer much, this was totally ridiculous.
Then I just said, I won't beg for anything, I won't answer any email or text that are not important. I will replay if it is about the kids or any other emergency. I won't be in a house if I do not want or have anything else to do because it is my time to spend and it is actually good when he takes the kids and feed them so I do not need to worry about that and I can do my own stuff.
When I was leaving I asked if he would like to spend the New Year's Eve at the house with the kids (it was his holiday with the kids). I said that I had a party I could go with some friends and if he did not have any plans and would like to be with the kids at the house that he could. He said he had nothing programmed yet and he was glad he could be with the kids.
When I came back from the gym, he was still at the house, he then said that it was not right that I asked him to stay the New Year with just three days before hand. I then explained that if was just if he did not have any plans, and if he had one then I would just tell my friends I would not join then and would stay home with my kids because I did not want them alone at this particular time.
Until New Year's Eve he was at the house every day, saying that he would like to spend time with the kids as much as he could. New Year's Eve comes and I was getting ready when he came to the house.
I went downstairs when I was ready and he said: "Wow Cira, you look amazing!". I said thank you but did not give him any attention, I was happy, smiling, the kids were talking to me, I was more worry about my party then anything about him. Before I left I said Happy New Year to him and just gave him a brief hug, he was ready for a big hug but I was really very brief, like he was my neighbor.
When I came back he was there, sitting on the cough very sad, looking very depressed. He asked me how was the party and I smiled and said it was fun. I sat on the other cough and we stayed there without saying a word until S15 came and asked him if he would sleep on the cough or if he would leave. He then started getting ready to leave. I told him he could stay because it was kind of dangerous about the drunk drives in the streets but he said he tough was better to go, I just said OK, take care.
The next day I got a message from him very early and did not answer since it was not important, but then I go email with visit schedule, I got more texts about his mountain plans with the kids, and about his car in the shop, and what time he would be at the house, and that he could take the kids to have dinner somewhere.
It was all day long getting idiot messages from him. I did not answer anything. When he came later in the day, I was brief but not rude, I was happy with myself.
Then it was yesterday, the day of the big fight. First he shows up at the house with his cousin = XH did not tell me he would bring his cousin in the house. Well, I was polite and talked to his cousin, since I actually knew him when he was very young. The cousin by the way is also getting a divorce and we talked a little bit about it.
Then XH got a cooler from the garage without asking me, he also got some water and soda, he opened the pantry and served himself with some snacks. I just looked at that and was amazed that he does not respect me or my house, that he thinks he still owns it. But I did not want to make a big scene in front of his cousin and did let go.
Once they were leaving I made an stupid comment that now I understand their plan, these two divorced guys in the mountains. XH pretend he did not understand. They left. Two minutes later S15 comes in a house and could not even talk, he was crying hard, loud and saying that he hates his dad. I tried to talk to him but he would not answer me.
I went to XH's car and asked what happen because S15 was crying like crazy. XH then said that when he was in the car he asked his cousin if he told me about their plans and his cousin said no. Then he made a comment that it was just Cira always pretending that she knows everything, that women are always playing games to get to him, that I have nothing better to do.
Then he tried to explain that he did not say it to offend me, that he never ever talks bad about me. But this was my fault that he reacted that way because I am always making some comments about him, that always when he comes in the house I have something to say and burn him in front of the kids. I looked at him and asked him to start explaining that and saying when was these times I have been making smart comments about him. And reminded him that most of the time we discussed our differences that we were outside the house. He was angry with me, he was fighting saying that he is trying his best but I don't understand his side, that I am the same way, ignoring him and all what he does.
He then flip right there in front of me, saying that he did not have a father, that people did not care about him, that no one ever gave any kind love and understanding. That he gets that I am angry because S15 was crying and I want to protect him, but that it is a temporary phase and S15 will grow up and will understand all this.
That he wants to be a good father to his kids and is trying very hard. That he gets that the kids do not want to be with him all the time but he wants to be a father he never had.
I had tears in my eyes at that point. I was looking at a man that did not make too much sense. He looked stressed out, in pain, saying more things about himself then addressing his son's issue.
He then said that his life is miserable, that I think he is always having fun and partying and it is not true, that his cousin is family an that he was just going to spend some time with him at the mountains, that he does not have anyone in his life and that I need to know this, that his life is not easy and he is paying a very heavy and hard price for the decision he made. That he needs to live every day knowing all his mistakes, that he has nothing and his life is nothing.
I decided to ignore all the drama pity party and said that would be best if he does not come in the house anymore, that he can come to pick up the kids and stay outside and they all have their phones that he can let them know once he gets there. That I want his stuff out of the house and out of the garage. That this is what he decided, the life he wants and that it is time for him to just go.
I said looking at him that I want to live my life and he needs to live his and that is what I want from now on. That I went to counseling, I did forgive him, I understood his choices and respect them and for quite a while I decided to start rebuilding my life and he is not in the picture and that it is now time for him to go once for all.
I told him I had enough and do not want anymore of the mixed messages, that the kids will be better off without all our drama around them too. He was angry, sad, looking hopeless. I said that his life is not my business and he can do whatever it pleases him with it and it is not of my concern if he has someone or not.
I said that I am happy with my life now and want to have a good time rebuilding myself and that it is not in our best interest to continue this kind of talk.
Then I asked S15 to talk to him, S15 did not want but I told him he started this then he needs to face the situation and say to his father what he was feeling and thinking. He came and said to his dad that he did not want to go to the mountains and that he would never accept his dad saying anything bad about his mom in front of him. That his dad would never disrespect his mom again.
XH did not apologize, he was angry, but did not say anything about it. He just said that if it was S15's decision that he would not stand in his way.
He was very angry, like never before since BD, I felt he would like to punch me in the face right there. But he did not say a word against me, he just repeat how his life is so miserable.
He brought S15's ski gear back into the house and said goodbye, at the door he turned around and came back into the kitchen to tell me that during the week he was at his mom's house that she kept picking on him all week, that she kept reminding him and telling his brothers how bad he was when he was young. That she was taking pleasure to put him down.
Then he said that he does not hear anything good, that all what people say to him is to hurt him. I just stood there, listening, did not get why he was telling me all that. Then he left.
So, I think I am in the right place here, after researching and reading more about MLC I came to the conclusion that it is better to face it and understand at least a bit of what is happening.
I left him alone, I really, really do not go after him, I resolve all my issues by myself, I am independent, I do not call, text or email him. I do not try to engage in any way or form. He is now very angry with me.
I just figure that the more I find my way and I am happy with whatever life I have for now, the more he is reacting to it. I need to be careful do not say too much, and not take any of his baits.
He is instigating me.
Before I would think to myself, why? if I just leave him alone and do not bother him at all, why is he picking on me so much. Now, I see that there is no simple way out of it. He will keep coming and making my life a hell no matter the reason he finds.
He has one foot outside and one foot inside this family and I need to find the right balance so no one will get even more hurt, no one will go crazy with this. XH is inconsistent, unbalanced and the worst is that he thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong.
He is totally unhappy with his life, himself, his job, with me, with the kids. It is always very painful when he is around because he drags everyone into his darkness.
I don't know what to do anymore and that's why I decide to come here where there is wisdom of how to deal with this. I can't not just say I will move forward. XH is a present figure and won't just leave us alone, he makes sure he is there, present. So, I can't anymore just pretend I am DBing, going dark or NC.
I am making my changes for a long time and I have goals to change somethings further. I feel better about myself and my life even tough it is not perfect the way I want it to be. I am responsible and I keep my kids accountable for their responsibilities as well.
I do not see much wrongs in what I am doing, but he keeps pulling me back into his nightmare as I want it or not, he always finds to way to get to me.
What do I do from here I do not know, I set my boundaries but sometimes he can not care less about it. We are still married in Brasil and he does not want to D there. I feel that he keeps it as we are somehow still married since it was our real marriage in civil court and in a catholic church. We married in US just to make things easier for the immigration paperwork. If he thinks this way or not I do not know, I asked why and he said that he just don't want it and period. So, I don't really know.
I am sorry for my long post, I just find myself crying with real pain now. At the beginning I was in desperation mode, then I became hopeful, then I started accepting my path and moving forward with my life accepting we are really done, now I have pain I never tough it would be possible after all what we went through and I have my kids suffering along side too.
Please, if you have any advice I would welcome it. The just move forward with your life does not cut anymore, I need a way to deal with this nightmare.
I'm so sorry that things have been all over the emotional place for you and your S15 this holiday season. It sounds like your h is not a happy camper.
It sounds like you and your h are victims of the Distance/Pursuit game and that he's trying to pull you back into the game.
You are going to have to set some boundaries w/him. Do you have a set visitation schedule for him to visit w/his son? If not, I would think about setting one. This "entitled" feeling of being able to just show up and bring along a friend and/or relative is a bit too much since you weren't aware that he was going to have someone w/him. He would have to either ring the door bell or knock to enter and not just walk in and help himself to the food and water that you've purchased. He needs to realize that he doesn't live there any longer and you are not his "mother" who stocks up for her man/child.
Of course, they all say that we haven't changed. They are projecting. If you have made changes, make them permanent if you are happy w/them. Don't allow him to rattle your chain about changes. He can see the changes and in some cases, probably isn't happy w/them, nor does he want to see you happy either.
Try not to argue w/him. He will attempt to goad you into arguing so that he can say you've not changed, etc. When he wants to have a discussion, if it becomes heated, tell him that you are sorry that he feels that way and end the discussion, i.e., hang up or walk away.
Pink, it's going to be okay. You have to work thru the pain. Allow that pain to wash over you and release and continue as you have been. It's a journey that none of us wanted to be on, but it will get easier in time. Try to keep the focus on you and your son.
Hello Pink, a big welcome to this part of the forum. I'm sorry to hear that things are still somewhat rough with your XH. We presume that after D things will settle down, but your sitch demonstrates that D truly is a piece of paper and the contact and dynamic can persist following D.
I'm pleased that Job has already offered some wise advice. I would agree that your H doesn't seem very happy with his lot. That's his circus and not yours though - except where it impacts adversely on the kids.
I think the boundaries are important here. Following D and financial settlement, H is now a guest in your home. Yes, I know it was your married home, but things have changed now. He may visit at your invitation and by prior arrangement, and I think it is worth being clear about this as I do think it is pushing at boundaries.
I agree about the Xmas present issue too. If your XH wants to buy presents for the kids, he'll need to organise himself and not expect 'Mom' to do it.
From what you post, you are still trying to rationalise, debate and explain your POV to your XH. The problem with that is that the person on the other end is going through MLC - and so those convos are unlikely to be productive, and may just cause pain.
You are also still somewhat reactive about what he is up to. You say you are pretty much hands off, but you don't always manage to STFU and that comment about going to the mountains slipped out - then cue a big drama with him and your S too. It is best if you can truly accept - we are D - he can do to the mountains and do naked head stands in the snow if he wants to...
As you say, there are many wise posters in this part of the forum, and I'm sure it is a good place for you to be. I have very little interaction with my H, but I read and learn because who knows what the future holds.
Do try not to despair. It sounds as though there is more work to be done yet to get fully through this, and you have come a long way already my friend.
Take care, and Happy New Year to you! Xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Thank you and I really want. I need all the energy I can get right now because it has been a difficult road for my kids and myself.
Our lives have been disrupted brutally and my XH is not going anywhere but staying around to just create chaos. In his mind he is doing all the right things for the right reasons.
I feel like giving up on it all and saying it straight that he can go to hell and never come back. But, and there is a but, he was lazy not a bad person. He was always a decent man, it is just unfortunately that now he is so upside down.
Please, you welcome to post it for me. I don't have any other way around besides learning and understand the virus that got into him. He is not going to leave us alone, he wants to be present.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read. This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first. Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Job, thank you for your kind words. I had a bad weekend, not very productive. Felt down on myself.
I know I need to pick myself up and see the positives. And I have a big one to hold to. S15 stood up for the love he holds for me and that's something without a price tag. I am very proud of him and the values he is learning.
It is just very difficult to deal with someone that play so many games. For example, I need to learn that my XH will do whatever to put me in a corner so I will react.
I lost it when I saw S15 in so much pain and desperation. XH has been punching hard over his head and he finally broke. Then I react badly. XH then said with all the words: "You did not change, you will never change. You still say things that hurt me."
I see now that I took the bait. He was trying very hard to get me to that point where I would just blow. And yes, I actually said that he needs to grow up and have some sense in his mind.
Well, I don't want to duel anymore on what happen, maybe just learn from that and keep moving.
Thanks for pointing out some things I can do and look forward. I think I am in the right place now. If it does not repair any kind of R with XH, I am sure I will learn how to deal with his nightmare and be happy in my life with my kids.
Sotto, thank you so much, as usual I agree with Toots!!! I was thinking a lot why I made that comment and I found out that I am kind of jealous that XH is in a fun mode. He always plays a broken record: "Oh, my life is miserable, I am nothing, lonely, I have nothing, you have no idea how painful it is." then goes in another vacation.
When we were married, he never had time to spare for his family, he was always super busy at work. Now, it's like he does not even work anymore.
Yes, I should think about myself and the kids and have fun and it all. But life has it's business side too, and there is obligations, deadlines, forms to fill, money to make, sometimes I feel we are always on the clock.
XH has no responsibility, he thinks that he is doing a lot just taking the kids to eat out somewhere and dropping them off at home.
It's simple jealousy and I need to work on letting that go and see the other side. I have a loving and fun family and he needs to always do something and go somewhere because he can't live with himself anymore.
I need to find a way to deal with this horrible feeling. Any advice is welcome.
RD, my sweet RD, life would be the same without thinking you are somewhere in this world. I know it is always good to hear from you because we relate in so many ways in our sitch.
You are many times an inspiration to keep doing the hard work for my family. I really respect and admire you. Thanks for being a light when all the lights goes off.
Hope we can all have a better 2016 then what it was in 2015. Love, Pink
Take your time to read through a lot of the threads in this section. What you see in crazy will make you wonder if we are sane for standing. What you will see is that it is a long road we are on and its not easy nor is there a quick fix. Remember only you can decide how long you can and will deal with this. No one here will judge you in any way. We use 2x4s and even 2x6s sometimes when it is needed. Remember we all are here for each other.
Stop beating yourself up. Figure out strategies to not get drawn into his games. He will believe he is doing all the right things yet to everyone else it will just be crazy. One day he may even wake up and ask you what happened. I had this happen recently just 4 months after she pushed through the divorce. She had no idea what had happened nor was she happy. So keep in mind you cant put your self in his place and try and figure out what is going on. When its over he probably wont be able to either.
Do your GAL activities. Keep moving forward and dont stop. Make him catch up to you if he can and wants too. Show you son who the rock is in the family and who he can count on. Right now live your life for you and your son.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
Pink...I'm so sorry mama. I have no advice I just want you to know that I am thinking of you and the boys and praying for all of you including your XH. I'm glad your son stuck up for you. It shows what a loving mother you are.
Your XH sounds like if he is in pain..you do too. I hope you find some direction and peace now from being on this part of the forum.
You will make it through. You are so very strong and you're a giving and loving person.
Rain
Rain (moi): 40 Ex Fiance: 39 3 kids On/off again EA & PA Last BD by ow 12/15 Moved kids and myself back into our own place: 12/15
First I would like to say THANK YOU... I am really so thankful for the chance to be in this forum. I have been learning so much, I have been changing so much the way I see R, M and life in general.
I am very happy that in my age I still have the opportunity to enrich my life with such knowledge that you can't get a degree anywhere else. We have a treasure here!!!
Lifes Twists - thank you for your advice, it is very true that we sometimes loose the sense of crazy when dialing with the MLCer.
V - you always have it to the point with this OW. It took me sometime but I now accept that there is nothing I can do to change the fact that XH needs to walk the walk and resolve his own issues and his deal with this lady.
Rain - My XH is a different person in some ways, it's hard to face all the destruction around me, but in the same time I can also see that I will benefit from all what I have been learning.
Reporting: Job and Cadet, I have been quiet, but among all the other stuff in my life, I was actually reading and doing my homework.
Going Dark - I have been dark for quite awhile not because it is a real choice, but because it is my only choice. Being around my XH means chaos and I couldn't continue on that path. Going dark protects me from him and myself. I still hold feelings for this man, along with this feelings of love, there are many others that I am not even very proud of, but I have them and I need to work on how to process them inside of myself, until then it is for my own good that I put some distance between us.
Standing - I can't lie to myself and I still love him in some ways. I also hate him in some other ways. I am very mixed up in my emotions right now. I think that for now I am standing. Why? Because I can see that there is still the turmoil, that XH is miserable with his own choices, that he made very poor decisions and he is as lost as a cockroach in a ballroom dance floor.
How I see myself as an LBS - very average, I did it all, not much of the begging because my own nature, but I did all what the newbies do and a little more. I had a lot of fear, then a lot of hate, then a lot of doubt, then a lot of paranoia, and alongside I always had a lot of pain.
Time went by and I started paying more attention in the process. Somethings started make more sense and I started having feelings for myself again. The process was right and was there the whole time, it was me that couldn't see beyond my own fears.
I got my attention more inward and even when I do not feel too good about my sitch, I still have the strength to see that tomorrow is another day and another opportunity for me to try to be someone I like in the mirror.
So, here it goes: This is what I have been doing:
l. I am looking better, maybe will never be fantastic again, but I am not the worse chick in the block. 2. I am holding a full time job and get a lot of congrats for getting a crap divorce and still pull of a good quality work. 3. My three boys and I are developing a business that we intend to start sometime in 6 to 12 months so we can have some extra income. And if it is a success, then a lot of income. 4. Son 21 did a lot of new tests and the doctors found nothing wrong with him. The only thing wrong is that his IQ is too high and he does not rest when he sleeps. He is set to do a sleep test and also use a machine for awhile to measure his sleeping patterns and then the doctors will be able to determine how much his brain works even when he is sleeping. 5. Resolving College situation w/S18 - helping, talking, guiding. Besides the fact that he is graduating high school in may/16, crazy busy time for us. 6. S15 is going to Florida with his football team and there is a lot of fundraising, and of course, mom is involved and will work a lot too. 7. I am registered to do another financial class and now to improve even further the way I use, spend and invest my money. I actually like this stuff. 8. Registered myself to a divorce group, my first meeting will be on sunday and it will go once a week until end of march. 9. Just came back from a nice dinner out and a movie with the boys, we saw "The Revenant", even had a glimpse on Di Caprio's bud. 10. Will go for a Nuggets vs Thunders basketball game on tuesday January 19th in Denver. 11. Got tickets to a huge christian concert that will happen in march. 12. Going to Zumba class on saturday's mornings. 13. I keep going to the gym whatever I have a chance. 14. Have a Super Bowl party organized, I even made invitations and my kids friends as well as my friends will come. We will have full house and a lot of insanity. 15. Will go to a samba party on Jan 29th with my friends, I love to dance.
In progress: 1. Did some job searching to check out salaries and I am still thinking that I would be better off doing the classes I need so I can see my own patients. Need to make a decision on this. 2. Looking for another car, need to get everyone driving in my house,no more excuses from the lazy boys. 3. Looking into a Tai Chi class. I use to do Karate for years, now I would like to try some Tai Chi and use some inner energy to help me out. 4. Need to sell some stuff from my garage, they are big items, so need to get them on craigslist.
And in all of this, I have laundry, housecleaning, meals, keeping the paperwork... and so on.
I think I am not doing so bad. But that is when I need to face that I have still a long way to go and need to work on several feelings that are stuck inside of me. You see, I can be miserable, sad, hopeless and no one will see it. I can function like I am in heaven, and my inside is in total hell.
I have been very angry, and this anger makes me go back into "pity party" where I feel sorry for myself. Like: Why is XH having a life, fun and all the time in the world, and I need to be very responsible and be there for my kids all the time?
This is also a feeling that brings me guilty. I feel guilty that I think my kids are somewhat a burden because I can't really come and go as I please. I love my children and wouldn't do it differently. So I am stupid for being jealous.
I also think about XH way too much. I do not snoop, call, text, email or ask anything to him. For him, it is like I am dead. But I can't lie, I do keep him in my mind all the time. And I know I do not want to see him ever. Maybe I am going MAD.
Coming clean with myself I also found out that I am very afraid to let him go from inside of me. I feel this weird fear that I will stop loving him and then I will be all over. But it is all over. So why I have this fear of letting go?
So as you all see, I have a lot of work to do on myself, a lot of soul searching yet. The good news is that I have more and more a taste and a desire to be a nice woman again.
The MLC stuff: Now, this is FU. Life seems so nice and organized with my lists of what I am doing, my goals, things to do, and blah, blah, blah.
Then comes XH and hell is open again.
This just happen this morning. Keep in mind that OW arrived here last sunday for the sales meeting in Boulder. XH emailed me (twice) his january schedule for his dates with the kids and today he was suppose to be in Colorado but not local.
XH - Good Morning Cira - Would it be possible to speak with you for a minute before I bring our sons to school?
Me - Good Morning XH - There is no school today.
XH - Shoot. I do not know how I missed it. I even put on my calendar. So sorry to disturb you. I would ask to speak with you sometime soon. If you would allow me the opportunity.
Me - What's up? You can text me or email me.
XH - It's personal XH - Between us.
Me - OK. Have a good day!
XH - You too.
He is not supposed to be at my house today, from his own schedule. There is no school and he has the calendar. I tough he was having fun with his GF. He knows I am very curious. And like S21 said... dad is always finding the way to keep you thinking about him. He is not here, but he is always present.
To tell the truth I do not want to talk to him, but I want to find out what he has to say. This way I can see that he is very smart and controls me because he knows how I will react to it.
I know what to do to be independent, to take myself totally out of the picture. I ignore him always. So, what can I do about it.
I feel like letting go for good.
Sorry the long post, I will try to write more often.
Pink, Your activities sound very good, but don't wear yourself out trying to keep busy, i.e., GALing. You can still GAL just by sitting and reading a book, listening to music or watching a good film. If you find yourself angry, use that anger towards doing something physical, something you've put off doing and you really don't like to do it. Trust me, that anger will spur you on and you'll get that disliked job done in record time. It's okay to have pity parties, but don't sit on the pot too long because you'll become stuck.
I hope that your sons help you out because they are at the age that they can help mom out. The two old ones can even hang out w/the younger son to give you a time out to do something for yourself. They shouldn't be the reason that you don't go out and have some fun or a much needed breather. Yes, they will always need you, but they are also at the age whereby they can be a bit more responsible and help mom out too.
Give yourself some time to think about what YOU want to do w/YOUR life. Taking some classes will help you get to where you want to be in the working world, but also give you an opportunity to meet new people and have something different to think about.
As for your XH, sounds like he still wants you to think about him and what he wants to talk about. Your son is one smart young man about what his father is doing. I find it very interesting that he couldn't tell you in a text or email you. Is it something he doesn't want in print so that you can use it against him or is just another excuse to hook you right back into his drama? He knows that you are still there waiting and curious about what he's doing. He also senses that you are moving forward and maybe he's not happy that you appear to be happy and moving on w/your life. They have ways of hooking us right back in and this is called the distance/pursuer game. The only way to stop it is to not take their bait and continue moving forward w/o reacting to their antics.
Let go, let God have this situation w/your h. Letting go doesn't mean you are giving up, but it does mean that you are moving on w/your life and if he wakes up, he'll have a lot of hard work to do to catch up w/you and earn your trust, love and friendship back.
Pink, it all takes time. This is not a sprint, but a marathon and as you continue on your own journey, you will rediscover the person that you once were and you'll learn to love that person again and at some point, you will discover that you are happy w/the person you've become. One day at a time, one step at a time.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Pink. Your post was filled with positivity and real honesty re XH I always feel you do t give yourself the credit you should for how you've dealt with your sitch.
Your have a big family to look after and teenagers + take a lot of looking after , you work and you ha e to deal with the drama of XH. Your doing amazing and I'm so glad to see you are letting your feelings re XH come out Its ok you still think about him but you are also planning your future , work wise and finacially
Your boys are very lucky to have a mum like you.
One thing I would like to disagree with is that your not the best looking chick on the block , I don't know why but something tells me your a very attractive on the outside as well as in
Wow Pink - I think you sell yourself a little short here! You are making and have made loads of progress. You have so many constructive things going on, plus working full time and running a home with three boys. I agree with Job that they are of an age where they can help, and so do check whether you are running around after them when they could be doing for themselves. Do they have regular jobs around the house to do??
WRT your H, I understand how you feel, and from all that you post you are still processing things which is fine. I think Job is spot on with this piece of advice:
"The only way to stop it is to not take their bait and continue moving forward w/o reacting to their antics."
My guess is he will continue to act in the same way going forward. Of course that's up to him. It is also up to you whether you choose to nibble at what's on the hook. I think the more calm and less reactive you can be the better.
Good luck with the divorce group & good for you getting enrolled in that. These groups often lead to friendships - in fact I'm out tonight at a quiz with some people from my divorce group - should be fun!
Take care Sweetie xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Just came back from my Zumba class and it was a blast. Got a real good sweat just the way I like it.
Job - Thank you for your help. For some reason I feel you like a father figure. Please, do not be offended, I am not calling you old in any way. It is the gentleness in your words that get to me. Somehow makes me feel loved.
My boys helped me a lot around the house. Of course, and they also call me that way, I am the sergeant. I always need to boss them around so things get done. But they do a lot, S15 always help in the kitchen since this football player is always hungry. He helps with the cooking to make sure we prepare something other then a salad, as he says.
I do not need to stay around with them either. I go out with my friends, go to the gym and a do a lot of stuff and they are OK n their own. They are big teenagers, and I do not babysit them anymore. I think it is the way I am and I do like to make sure everything is running well.
The way it happen is that I need to talk to S21 and give him hope that his life will be OK again and that his sleeping issues will be resolved. Once it is all done, he will be able to hold a job again. Have a social life.
I also need to give a lot of attention to S18, there is a lot on his plate right now and big decision to make. I want to make sure he can count on me to discuss his issues, life choices.
And S15 is my little one. Always hard on mom, but always the little one the will crawl back and give me a big hug. He is one tough kid, but I am the only one that he allows to see his weak side, his pain.
It really breaks my heart to see what this idiot XH is doing reg his children. In this aspect, he has zero of my admiration. I understand he had a crap childhood, but I do not excuse him for acting so poorly. My childhood was filled with regrets too, and I decide to do better then the ones before me.
XH could be sharing some of the stuff the boys are doing and help with emotional support as well as some other things. There are somethings that need to be resolved with an adult there. Money decisions. Oh well, I guess I am MOM and DAD.
Regarding me, I don't really overdue my GAL. And by the way I also read books, see movies, series on TV, I always listen to my christian music on my car (very loud) and all the crazy hip hop stuff with the boys (even louder), go to church on sunday.
I just can't stop, I was always like this, I need to be always doing something, even when I am doing nothing. That was some of the issues with XH, he is more a sitting around guy and I was always pushing everyone to do other stuff. But, I like the way I am, I always said that once dead then I have all the time in the world to rest and I am not dead yet.
I guess now XH is at peace since I am not there to bother him with my stuff.
RD - Still have in mind that trip to Ireland. I was job searching other day and found out there is an american company looking for someone to work in Dublin. I smiled thinking that maybe I can get that kind of job and transfer myself. Ha Ha that would be too funny.
And you are right about being honest of my feelings for idiot XH. However, I do not know very well what are these "feelings" anymore. I even tried myself a question: "What if XH wants to talk to me and ask if I would like to try our M again?"
I was a little confusing, not to say very scary. I tough: "Oh please, no, Geez, is that really what I want? Maybe if he work on some of his moods, behaviors, focus in life, value for the things that really matter...
I tough that it would be better if he do not ask me that question, that I am not ready to go back into the R yet. That I want to work on finding my real self and have a deep knowledge of what I really want.
This is just very confusing right now. I do not know how much I love him, if I still love him or if it is wounds of failing in my M that keeps me hook up. I really don't know yet. The one thing I know is that I do not want to be with him right now.
Sotto - you are a very good friend and I love you. Thanks for encouraging me to get into the divorce support group. I am looking forward to that and the chance to share some divorce stuff with other folks that are going through this.
I can't even believe that you found a class for me here in Boulder. You are amazing and does not stop amazing me.
DECISION - I won't contact XH reg his "Want to talk BS". As far as I know we are divorced and I am busy. There is not much I can think about that he can hurt me financially, with the kids. It was all decided and I have my divorce decree to prove it.
He can tell me he is moving to France, or the GF is moving to US and they will move in together or even get married. It would hurt but not surprise me. And in either way, it would be easier to just letting him go for good.
If he insist in this talk, I will try and push for the email. I do not see any reason that we may have such important subject that needs to be resolved in person. And I agree with Job, he may want to play some cards with me that he does not want to get it in a paper. Need to be vigilant with this snake. Thank God I am most Sicilian blood.
I just love you guys and I will endure this crazy and painful situation. I am a kid of God and will thrive for my best. It's bumpy sometimes, but it is not yet the end of "ME".
Hey pink things are very different just go back to your beginning and have a read.
By rights I too should be here, as my xh2 talked to himself in the corner in a little boys voice and made up his version of re written events.
If he was loco, then that would be more sane than he was then. He's not getting any less loco so in my eyes made no progress in 2-3 years. To me he's gone I don't see him nor bump Into him any where, which is odd. He only lives 4km or so from my house same road. It's like aliens possed him and beamed him up.
Mind you I haven't remotely moved in any circle he would my life just isn't like that anymore.
M 46 h54 Both married before T 11y Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads! Ms 18 hs 26
Yes, I am getting to the conclusion that XH is gone. Never coming back. He made his decision, his choices seem to be the right one for him right now.
It is not funny to see your life being torn apart, but it is the truth and I can't lie to myself any longer.
This past week XH was with his GF here in the US. And now, it is really not my business since we are divorced and he is a single guy that can do whatever he wants to.
I am just an idiot thinking that it could be turned around. Looking back I can see that I have been an idiot for very long. I did everything possible for this man to have a career, I took care after everything in a household so he could have the time to advance in his work. And all what I got was a foot on my ass.
If to forget him will take to hate him and not have any kind of relationship what so ever, then be it.
I need this person away from me, very far away from me. I think I am getting to my enough stage.
I really don't know what to do. By one hand I am curious to know what XH wants to talk with me, by other hand I am scared to death that I will get hurt once again.
I have been avoiding him in any way I can. Totally dark, really dead for him.
Saturday Jan 9th I got this text: XH - Hi Pink - Would it be OK to stop by for a few minutes tonight just to say hello to our sons? I understand if not and hope you are well.
I did not see the message, was not expecting him around because he was suppose to be with OW.
Then Friday Jan 15th I got this: XH - Good Morning Pink - would it be possible to speak with you for a minute before I bring our sons to school?
Me - Good Morning XH. There is no school today.
XH - Soot. I do not know how I missed it. I even put on my calendar. So sorry to disturb you. I would ask to speak with you sometime soon. If you would allow me the opportunity.
Me - What's up? You can text me or email me.
XH - It's personal XH - Between us
Me - OK. Have a good day!
XH - You too.
Then he text and call the kids several times during the weekend to talk about the football games, what the kids were up to. Some they answered, some they didn't.
Then today at 10:30am I got a text saying:
XH - Hello Pink - I would like to know if you might have any time this afternoon to meet for a coffee or something? Or another day or time this week?
Me - 10:56am - Good Morning XH - It this any issue with our kids? Just want to know what is about before I decide if it is something to resolve in person or we can resolve by text or email. I am not disregarding your request, if it is important for you, then I will meet you. But I would rather not. Please, let me know.
XH - 12:38am - It has nothing to do with our sons. Just between you and me. I understand.
XH - 1:19pm - I understand if you do not want to meet me. It is important for me to meet with you and talk.
XH - If you could.
I did not answer him yet. I can't think about something so important that he needs to see me in order to tell me. We are divorced for 5 months and there is nothing that we need to resolve, it is all done by the court.
The reality is that I am reacting from FEAR... I put myself in the dark and it feels good because I do not need to hurt as much.
If anyone can just give an opinion I would appreciate, maybe I can see things from another perspective.
Hi Pink, well I would think your options are either:
A - ignore & if he comes back again, you've been busy etc.
Or
B - coffee & zero expectations. Plus non-reaction to what he says - thanks for telling me that XH. I'll need to think about that ec. Then come back here to post for advice?
I think the main thing is to not get drawn back into his chaos. But do wait & see what wiser posters think too xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Well, you've done a good job of trying to see if he'll discuss it another way, he seems clear that he needs to tell you in person.
I would do so in some neutral location like a cafe. That way you can easily leave if it becomes too much.
I think it is also helpful to think of all the possibilities of what he might have to say, so you can prepare yourself ahead of time.
What might he say? Almost anything might come out of their mouth, but here are a few possibilities.
- "Pink, I'm gay" - "Pink, the OW is pregnant" - "Pink, the OW is pregnant (or crazy or obnoxious or over) and I want to come home" - "Pink, I'm in a 12 step program and I need to make amends because I'm on step 9" - "Pink, I'm moving to France to be with OW" - "Pink, I've got terminal cancer" - "Pink, I've been out of my mind and I'm wondering if there is any way we can reconcile?" - "Pink, I lost my job and won't be paying any alimony or child support"
See? The possibilities are wide, but I think if your prepare yourself for a range of them, it's less likely you'll be blindsided. Also, I like the previous suggestion to have a few noncommittal answers ready (like"I'll have to think about that" and "thanks for telling me, I'll get back to you on that"
Thanks Sotto. You always come to my rescue and I appreciate it.
I do not have much expectations regarding the M or R. I finally accept that it is done and dead.
But I am afraid of any more wounds. I have a lot in my plate do deal with. I need to be emotionally balanced and in peace so I can hold my family together and happy at some level.
Every time in the past, when I am out of this mess, he pulled right back on and left me with all open wounds and lot of salt on it. That's the only thing I really fear now.
And lets be honest, I know I am not all detached from this guy and the R, I am not all there yet. So it is fragile right now, I do not want to fall right back into the hole and need to work hard again to pull myself out of it.
And because it is bothering me, I can really see that I have a lot, tons of work to do in detaching, not just ignoring.
Pink, I'm so sorry he's continuing to bug you about meeting up. There are a couple of options that you need to think about:
1. If he continues to ask you to meet up with him, point out that the telephone is a very private way of having discussions about "personal" things, i.e., whereby the only two people that will know what the conversation is about will be on the phone.
2. You could meet up w/him, but he would have to give you some idea what the "personal" topic is about before hand. I certainly wouldn't want to walk in and not have at least some clue what will be discussed. Make sure you go some place public so that things don't get out of control. However, remember that others may be able to hear the conversation and quite frankly, that may not be "personal" enough for him. Try to keep your expectations at zero and try not to react to what he's saying. Come here to vent.
kml gave you some possibilities of what "personal" could be, but there is one that wasn't addressed. He could have a STD, i.e., the one that keeps on giving and he has to notify all of his partners. I certainly hope that's not the case, but the way he's handling this "personal" conversation has me thinking it's something he's done and it will impact you.
Of course, you could always ignore his requests and say that you are busy, but he can call, text or email whatever it is he needs to talk about (again).
You don't need to give him an answer today. Whatever it is, it could be something simple, but more pressing in his mind. If you do meet up with him, just remember that you can leave at any time. Do not allow his drama to suck you back in. You've been doing well, but if you opt not to see him, that's okay. It's your decision to make and I do understand how you feel.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks kml, it's seems so easy for me to give some advice like that to someone else, and yet I can't really get my mind to it if its for myself.
That's why this community is so valuable. It let us help each other.
kml, love the possibilities. "I'm guy"... well it could be if I think how many times he went to France. Maybe OW is just a cover up and he wants to come clean, LOL.
It indeed could be any listed above. I guess the real deal is that I still love the bastard and he knows me better then anyone else in this world.
I like the idea of a public place and also being prepare for short answers like you and Sotto mention. I guess it is my best bet on this one.
So I text him once again to try to get some info because I am sh*** in my pants.
3:12pm Me - I can talk to you only if you give me a heads up of what it is all about. It may be important for you, but it may be another wound for me, and I do not need it anymore.
3:22pm Cira - I am rumbly asking for a chance to speak with you. I have a one thing to say, that I need to say to you, that you deserve to hear and to know.
It is not hurtful, but I realize that many things can hurt, that were not intended to.
If you can trust in your faith, I am sure that our God wants me to tell this to you, and you deserve to hear it from me.
I do not want to be cryptic, but what it is about is exactly what needs to be said and heard.
Now, can I just write and scream a lot of very bad words? Is this making Cira insane day?
I will see him, and if he says anything that hurt me, I will break his nose. I am so close to finish with him today. It's ridiculous.
What kind of answer is that?
OK, I will talk to the bastard, be confident, mysterious, no expectations, careful and remember the STFU. Public place, it he says half word I do not like to hear, I am walking away.
I will let you guys know what happens. For some reason, I feel just like when he asked for the divorce, it is weird.
I'm sorry he's being cryptic. Apparently he feels he has a need to talk to you in person, maybe he needs absolution and that's what a priest is for. Something is definitely on his mind and he's not going to let it go until you meet up w/him.
I am going to keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I know that this is not something that you really want to do. Sit quietly and the answers will come on how to deal w/this issue.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I will see him, and if he says anything that hurt me, I will break his nose
Lolol - sounds like a plan!
Actually, I had forgotten about the STD possibility, but I would say, given the way he is putting it in words, that this is not likely the message. He actually sounds more like a guy who wants to apologize, but I would keep your expectations at ZERO.
The real deal is that I have no idea of who is this guy. My normal H was different, or maybe I was totally blind.
So, I have no idea what it is. I have decided that I will talk to him and end this agony. Whatever it is will need to be faced today or tomorrow. I just hope it is not the STD stuff.
To talk about my faith and God was something surprising for me. He knows how much faith I have and the respect I have for God. (He always did it too). That alone make things not so negative. But who knows, I can't trust what is in his mind anymore.
Job, thanks for the advice. It made my heart stop for a sec when I read 'STD" but it is a real possibility, just hope it is not the case. I also believe that if I do not talk to him, that he will keep texting me until it happen.
Seems that whatever is stuck inside him, it needs to come out.
kml, when he mention faith, I had the feeling that it may not be something so negative. But who knows, maybe in his mind it is not so negative and it will be a devastation for me.
I will face it. A day of turmoil is better then a weak into the turmoil.
I will see him, and if he says anything that hurt me, I will break his nose
Lolol - sounds like a plan!
Actually, I had forgotten about the STD possibility, but I would say, given the way he is putting it in words, that this is not likely the message. He actually sounds more like a guy who wants to apologize, but I would keep your expectations at ZERO.
Yeah break his nose.... Break break break chants Jerry style. While the hayseed in me is cheering for that option in reality if it were me, the coward would say actually no please write me an email.
It's sounding he wants reaction and or fed back perhaps you to tell him he's not an ass! Please don't tell him that as he's been one.
M 46 h54 Both married before T 11y Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads! Ms 18 hs 26
You won't believe how thankful I am for having you guys to help me. Give me advice and support. Sometimes I feel so alone and lost. My family is so far away, and I know it is better if I don't dump all my issues on them. Specially if it is about XH. In their opinion I should be thinking about my next BF and having fun instead of thinking in a M that is dead.
I understand it is their best way to protect me, but they get angry because they think XH also uses the fact that I am alone here.
I guess if I was not convinced before, now I am quite 100% sure it is some MLC. The more I think, the more it surprise me, confuses me. It's just ridiculous that at 50 I am playing these games with him.
If he just said something, like it is about my job, or health, or my life changes, whatever, just say the subject. I would at least know what was coming.
I even ask myself why I am so afraid of what he has to say. Why? He did so much to hurt me, his kids, his family. I should be numb to whatever comes from him. But indeed I do not want to hurt even more.
I remember those days when I cried hard and had that pain in my stomach that wouldn't stop, and the desperation in my heart. It was a brutal pain in my body. It was the first time in my life that I hit the floor and was very broken. And I had pretty bad stuff in my life before him.
So, I became a coward today. I did not answer any text, did not talk to him. I just got home and parked my car in the garage so nobody knew I was home.
My body still hurts and I can't think about putting myself through this anymore. Today, my fear was stronger then my curiosity. Well, even that is a 180 for me.
So, this is the real DB. Finally it hit my brain. It is when you are more important, it is when you protect yourself no matter how important something else can be. You are reserved, you are not anxious to jump on the next wagon and get the cheap ride.
Slowly I learned to be less fake and more original, learned to say NO, even when that was what I want the most. Learned to say good bye and close the door, to be short and not expect anything in return. I learned to set boundaries and not back up on them. I learned to be patient.
How did I learned so much and did not even noticed my transformation?
And most and more important I just decide to join the divorce support group because I am ready to move on. I do not want to be alone forever, I want a partner that I can share my time without kids, diapers, bottles, teenagers and their freak hormones.
I just want to be happy again. I know this whole experience opened my eyes, ears, heart and brain to a new perspective on R and M, I learned so much stuff regarding my behavior - good and bad, the patterns on my personality that affected my M, the gaps, wrongs, reactions, communication and so much more that made my H unhappy to the point he became my XH.
Today, many things came to my mind and I am so confused about my feelings. I was thinking that he may want to tell me this or that, and I find myself wondering... I do not want to hear that he is moving to France, or moving in with the OW, or she is pregnant, or he has STD, or lost his job. But I also don't know if I want to hear that he wants to get back together.
I don't know if I love him anymore, I feel like if I love family, that I hurt because my family with him is no more, but do I love him... the man? Can trust be rebuilt?
But again, why to think all this? Maybe he will tell me something that will hurt me but he won't think that way in his twisted mind.
I know some couples that got divorced around here, and none of this happen to them. They D and each person started their new journey in separated ways.
I am going to a basketball game tomorrow, it is suppose to be very good and I like the Thunders. I won't talk to XH then.
On wed S18 has guitar lessons and then I go to my prayer group. So, no time to talk to XH. I am free on thursday. Will see if I get the courage to hear whatever he wants to say.
Again, thanks for the support. I never tough that I would be at this crossroads right now.
Pink, You are starting to think about YOU. It all takes time and you are slowly getting to the other side. Don't rush the process. Allow that pain to wash over you and then release it. The best way to deal w/that pain is to work thru it and let it go. I know it's difficult right now, but you've come such a long way.
You will know the right time to have a discussion w/him. What may seem important to him, may not be so for you. Don't allow him to sway you into meeting him if you aren't ready to do so.
Even if your xh says he wants to come home, I wouldn't take him back quite so quickly. He would have to live on his own and be transparent w/you. He would have to work very hard to win your trust and love again. If you make it too simple and allow him back too quickly, he most likely will go again off the rails.
Pink, it's time to start thinking and doing for Pink. His drama is his to own and you do not want to be a part of it...unless it concerns your family. He needs to grow up and hopefully realize what he's lost, i.e., YOU.
Take care of yourself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Morning Job, and thanks for your wise words. I would rather not even think about him asking to come back because it can backfire me big time and I will be crawling back to the dark hole.
But if I think about I can just say that I agree with you 100%. This man is a traveling dude, and it won't be easy to just trust him overnight. If that happens, we will need to be boyfriend & girlfriend for quite a good time and there will be a lot of IC, maybe MC, FC, it is quite complicate.
Last night I prayed and fell asleep. This morning I made my decision and texted this to XH:
Good Morning XH! Last night I prayed for guidance and I decided to meet and talk with you one last time about the "between us". In the real world I know we have kids together and I will be forever willing to discuss anything about them. I have only one request. I will only meet with you if it's not to discuss anything about your girlfriend. If you want, for some left respect because I am the mother of your children, to let me know you will be moving to France, or she is moving here, or she is pregnant, whatever it is, you can just call me and it will be private as well. So this is my request and I ask you to respect that. Please, know that I got to terms with myself and I accept all the wrongs I did to the demise of my marriage, and I understand you have all rights to be happy. I actually admire you for choosing what is better for yourself. I will be busy today and tomorrow, if it is OK with you, I can meet you on Thursday late afternoon, around 7 or 8pm? Please, let me know which way you want this to go. Thank you and have a great day!
Maybe it is not the right words, maybe I am not DBing, but it is what was in my heart and that is what is real for me.
I just sent that text and will see what will be his answer. Whatever it is, so be it. I wish I could say that I am super OK and having a blast, but I am not.
It all brings me a lot of pain and that is not fun to deal with. I can just take it easy and endure whatever comes my way at this point in my sitch. There is not much to do besides saying what I want or don't want.
Yes, I am thinking about myself more and more these days, have been feeling a little better for doing so. But it is still very intense to have any contact with XH. My body hurts, my stomach hurts, I can't really eat much, I feel like a got a bad cold.
But I know better, being here for such long time, I have learned that this will also pass and that tomorrow things will get better and brighter. I just need the flood to go by and then clean the mud left behind.
Thanks to you all for giving hope for "Myself". Love, Pink
Your text was just fine. Now, it's up to him to at least honor your request and respect you for who you are.
I do hope that you can put this "personal" issue to bed and soon so that you can continue to focus on YOU. Until that situation comes to light, it's going to be in the back of your mind.
Good luck!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Pink, that sounds fair enough to me. It is weird (and I have been in the same place when about to talk to H.) I recall once having written down on a sheet of paper, three main things that could happen - He wants a D - he's unsure what he wants - he wants to R. It's a strange thing to know so little about where they are at.
Try not to worry too much about where he may be at or what he may want to do. You've laid a ground rule about OW. If he tells you something about her, you can always respond briefly - thank him for telling you - and ring off.
I would second what Job says about a possible R. There are no big decisions for you to make right now about that. I think the big decision would come a way down the line - if your H had broken things off and demonstrated consistently his wish to R. Perhaps you would have more contact - even light dating - for a few months. He would need to understand that (given all that has happened) you aren't willing to make big decisions about your R just now.
So - be calm and still. Your life is your own now, and your H has become one of many (very lucky) guys who you may choose to date going forwards. And the fact that he wants to have a chat need not unsettle your week. Of course we'll be here to assist if you need something too.
Take care xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
XH - Cira - I am not asking to talk with you about anyone or anything else. There is no big news, surprises or changes in the future to tell you about. So let's meet on Thursday at 7pm, if that works for you.
Hi Pink, well that's fair enough. So, if you can go with no expectations, hear what he has to say, and receive the message without reacting - that would be fine I think.
Perhaps once he has said 'it' you can hear him out, probing gently if you need to, then say - thanks for telling me this. I'm going to need some time to think about that and I will come back to you.
Then maybe gently change the subject on to a 'safe' area. Make a list - kids, work, weather - just something to converse about. Then maybe finish your drink and head off.
Just my thoughts - but if you have very low expectations of what may happen and manage not to react - I don't think you can go too far wrong.
Take care Sweetie xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Well, that text or phone call tells you absolutely nothing about what he thinks is so personal that he needs to talk to you in person about.
Since he's stated that there is no big news, surprises or changes, I would go into this meeting w/little or no expectations and don't be surprised if he says he wants to be friends.
I know this difficult, but I would look on this meeting as a meet up w/someone you use to live next door to and you just happen to run into him/her and sat down for a cup of coffee. Always remember, you have the power and control to end the conversation when you feel it's getting a bit too much for you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I don't know if it's me that is going crazy or the world is really becoming square.
Can you believe this man? Talk about some serious MLC hah?
Oh Pink, it is nothing very important, I am just making the whole deal with mysterious messages begging you to meet with me just because I am a complete Jerk.
At least I can smile with this whole circus that he put up.
Tell you, even with 50 I conclude I still did not see it all.
Thank you so much for being part of my life, my journey. You guys are the best, really awesome.
Pink, It's like I mentioned before...what appears to be important to him may not necessarily be of importance to you. No, you aren't going crazy. You have to remember that he's all over the place emotionally and apparently he needs some of your attention for whatever reason. Maybe he has come to realize that since you have children together that the two of you might want to be friends. Maybe he wants to be able to tell people that he had a meet up w/you and everything is good. It's really no telling what's going through his mind, but I don't think it's anything to lose sleep over.
Yes, he sure had the drama building up. It was his way of getting you hooked back into his drama. He got his ego built up a bit because he knew you were curious/interested in what he wanted to talk about.
Get off the merry-go-round and leave him to circle round and round. Just remember, you are the sane one going into this meet up. No expectations and when you walk away, I bet you will be shaking your head about all of the drama he created. They are drama queens/kings to the max. LOL!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Pink, I just wanted to wish you good luck with your Meeting with H today. Just remember, you are a poised and lovely woman who has your life in order. You are granting him the gift of your time and will hear and process what he has to say. You are healing from the D, and can be non-reactive even if he presses your buttons. You don't need to respond if he pulls any strings - but you can consider things and get back to him at another time.
Today, I would place very little importance on what he says and place a great deal of emphasis on how you respond. He could say anything from A-Z, and if you can manage to respond in the way you want, the meeting will be a success either way.
Take care & let us know how it goes xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Just to second Sotto. Listen and give yourself time to respond. I don't think it will be that bad , I know others have given a worse case scenario but that would be worse case
Not matter what he's says , please give yourself time to think before answering even if that means getting up and leaving him sitting there
You have full control of you Pink , don't let him try to change that
Please let us know ASAP as we will be thinking of you
I decided to prepare myself as the way I did when he wanted to talk about our D. I sat there and did listen to all his talking and explanations. Once he was done, I even asked if this all what he wanted to say, and then said that I would consider it, talk to my lawyer and get back to him.
He got upset and I stood up and just said that I did not need to hear all that and if the conversation would go that way, that I was leaving.
He then got back to his normal and tried to persuade me into being a good girl. I kept my cool and just told him that he did what he wanted and I was going to do whatever I tough was best for myself.
I was thinking yesterday and I can't help to wish it was to repair what happen with our family. But I know better that it can be just another nonsense bull that he is trying to pull out of me.
I even tough it is financial, since I know he has been spending money he probably shouldn't. I was always more careful with money and XH is a big spender. Maybe he will ask me for a loan?
Depending on what it is all about, one thing is becoming very clear, I can't have this kind of thing happening in my life. If he wants to just talk some stupid, I need to leave it clear that I want him out of the picture. That he needs to stay away and we will just talk if it is related to kids.
I am a divorced woman and I need to rebuild my life the best way I can. I need to move forward and have accepted that it is best for myself and for my kids.
I know it is not what I wanted, but it is what is my reality. So he will need to disappear once for all.
What he probably don't think about is that life is not all that bad without him. I went to the basketball game with my boys and it was a blast. We had a great time together. To tell the truth, for a long time I did not see S18 so excited about a game.
Time never stops and life is moving on, I am not ready but I have a desire to rebuild my life with someone that will value me for what I am. Maybe I am not the best, but I know in my heart I am not the worse.
So I will dress well, not much, to feel good and secure about myself, I will try my best to be calm, some happy, mysterious, and need to STFU as much as I can so I do not say what I will regret later.
I know I have faith, I have prayed for guidance and serenity, now is in God's hands to do what he does best... Work his mysterious ways in my behalf!!!
I also wanted to say that I won't ever forget you are the ones to support my life ordeal at this time. You made and are making my life better for walking the unpaved road beside me. I would not be where I am if I was all alone.
Well, I guess DB is at test now, let's see what happen.
I will put my hear inside work now and try to forget about tonight, this way I won't be freaking out.
Stay calm, look him in the eye and if it's something he wants you to make a decision on, tell him you need to some time to think about it, etc.
Good luck! Remember...we will be w/you in spirit!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
IMO, it was not very bad. It was painful and it was good too.
By 5pm I texted XH to ask where he would like me to meet him. He said he would like me to choose a place. I told him we could meet at a Starbucks that is kind of in the middle for him and me. He agreed.
I got there and he was waiting. He was well dressed. Very polite, very kind.
We got out latte and sat to talk. He started saying that he really appreciated the fact that I gave him the chance to talk.
I sat there just listening the whole time. Looking him in the eye like job said. He start saying that for a long time when we were still together that he was really angry with me.
That towards the end, he could not stand to anything I was saying to him. But now, he sees things different and he feels like he was totally blind. Now he can put himself in my place and can see what a selfish jerk he was for a long time.
That he can see that I was right in many things I said and asked him. That he did not consider anything I was saying to him, that he was not listening.
He said that one thing I said to him some time ago was stuck in his mind. That I said that the worse part is that he did not gave me a chance, he just decide to end it and did not gave me a chance to even try.
Now, he can see that he did not treat me with respect, value, consideration. That he just ignored me and pretend he was paying attention. That the only thing he was thinking about was to run from everything.
That now he sees that he was angry with me and convinced himself that he was unhappy because of me. That I was the reason his life was miserable and he just tough he need to run away.
That now he has been looking in the mirror and he sees that he was so wrong. He accepts that for some reason this was the path he needs to take to find himself and find what was inside of him.
He said that from the bottom of his heart he wanted to ask me for forgiveness. That he would like me to search in my heart and see if I could consider to forgive him.
He said that he can see the destruction he did to his marriage, his family, his kids and mainly to me, that I did not deserve all what he did make me to go through and that he is very sorry.
He said that he forgave me, that he now can say it very sincere that he forgave me and that I need to know that.
When he was done, I just sat there, looking at him, I did not say a word for about 10min if not longer. I couldn't move, or say a word. He got a little uncomfortable, I think he had some expectation about my reaction, but I did nothing.
Finally I said that I was not expecting that he would say all that to me, that I was very proud of him for doing all the hard work, but that in the same time it was a bit of mixed feeling hearing all this from him.
That he was telling me things I always wanted to hear, he is becoming the man I always wanted. Then he finish my sentence and said "but it is too little, to late".
The whole time he mention things as I was the one to dump him. Like he is not doing enough.
One thing he repeat many time was: I needed to lose it all to know what I had.
He said that and said that he lost material things, he lost his family, his relationship with his kids and me. And that was only loosing it all that he now realizes what he had.
At the end of this part, we hugged. XH had some tears, not like the way he used to cry.
Then he asked me if he could tell me two other news. He said that he finally got his director position. That he did not get any more money but has his position now. I congratulated him with a hand shake, said that I was proud of him. He then said the after so much hard work, work done by both of us in order for him to succeed in his career, that he got somewhere.
After he was done telling me this, he said that he miss a lot talking to me, he miss the friend he had, the unconditional friend I was to him and that he always knew I cared for him and shared his pain and his successes. That he miss telling me things about him, his job, his life.
The second thing he wanted to share is that he knows a man at a place he eats lunch close to his work for many years and only lately he made time to talk to him. It just happen that this man is a pastor, and invited him to go to his church. XH said that he was impressed with this man and will try to visit his church.
He also met another man that reached some enlightenment in life once he became a Buddhist some years ago. The conversation with this man made him to see again and stop being blind with his own arrogance. That this man made him understand that XH could just disregard my feelings and my pain. That XH needed to transport himself to my place and see himself with my eyes and try to understand what he was seeing. '
Then he told me that there is a gentlemen that he always say hi or short talk in his company and that other day he was walking and this older man asked how XH was doing. XH chocked and this man said: One of those bad days? XH said that he started talking and telling this man how bad he was feeling and this gentleman asked him if he believed in God.
XH told him that he always pray and that he is a man of faith, but he was not going to church for quite a long time. This guy said that he goes to a great church and that his life was transformed since he started going there. XH asked what church and he said the name.
It just happen to be the same church I go. What XH told this man, that his XWife is a member of that church too.
So, that's one thing that we talk very openly and we always agree... it is our faith in God. I shared my piece with him that I did not fell apart because I have my faith and it carried me over during this whole difficult time.
We talked about things that we learned during this time apart. Things that are making us understand many things about M, R, faith. XH said that it was not so bad what happen because we have been learning, that for some reason it was the path he needed to take in order to see what is important in life.
We both mention that say: the worse thing that happen to us is yet the best thing that happen to us. We laughed about this. Yeah, we actually laughed together today.
That I told him many times but he did not listen. That now he can see that snowboards, jackets, helmets or whatever are not important, that there is more to life then that.
XH told me that he is not using Marijuana all the time now. That he came to a conclusion that even that I was right, that it was not good for him. He said that he decided to detox in small scale, but he already conquer a week without any use.
XH also mention (again) that the time he was very mad with me, that he was also very jealous. That he new about my EA with my boss. I said that looking this way, that he was right, I had a big admiration for my boss and that I liked to talk to him.
But that I never had anything to do with him and neither want anything to do with him. That it was admiration for someone that works a lot, is very responsible, have a big heart towards so many people that have physical issues. And I still feel that way, but it has nothing to do with a different kind of attraction.
XH said that I should be in the other side to hear all what a great guy he was every time I talked about him, and that I should be in the other side to see how my eyes would shine every time I told something that happen at work.
He said that he was very, very jealous and he regret never talking to me about it. That he decided to give me space to find out what I wanted and now he sees that he just made us grow apart and that he was very wrong about me being in love with my boss and not him.
And the last but not least, he said that this is what he wanted to talk about, that it is very personal for him, that he is not going anywhere, not moving away and nobody is coming, that he is not moving in with anyone. That his kids are the most important for him and he won't separate from them. That I can be sure of this. That I can be sure his life will continue the way it is.
So in all I do not think it was bad in some ways. In other ways it is painful to hear that he is doing all this changes now when we are divorced.
I even said that I could understand what he wrote that it wouldn't be hurtful, but he understands that somethings may hurt even when they are not intended to.
I feel sick now, my head hurts a lot, my body feels like a train went over me. I have no energy and can't eat anything. I do not feel pain in my stomach, but I feel sad.
The part that hurt the most is to hear all what can be translated into "I can see the mistakes I did, I regret and would like to make it right, both of us" But I did not hear that, he did not mention that anytime. There is no "us" and yet everything is "us".
There is no hope, this is all about himself getting his chest clean of his whole guilt for what he did.
When we said goodbye, we hugged, I got a very strong hug like he misses me. He hold my hand and said that I am the best woman in the world and that he won't ever find anyone like me. That he is very proud of me for being such woman, mom. That he is proud of me for never letting myself to fall, that I am strong and never lower my level.
I left then, left and now Colorado has a flood again. I cried hard and don't even know what to feel. I so a lot of glimpses from a man I got married one day.
Maybe I will understand better tomorrow, but today I can't even understand what it all means, what to expect or at least guess. There is also the practical side of all this. His mail still comes to the house, his stuff is still in my garage, we are still married in my country.
I think I will stop here, my head is exploding and I can't really think straight. I would like answers and there are none. I would like to understand why he is doing all this, and I just don't. I would like to ignore it, but I can't. I would like to hate him, but I still love him (I think).
I dont even know where to begin, except with hugs and to say just be kind to yourself. I'm sure more experienced folk will have words of wisdom to help parse that declaration for both of us.
xoxoxoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
no wisdom from me Pink, I can see that XH is still in MLC and maybe the fog cleared for a while and the real XH emerged
IMHO the biggest thing in all this is that you admit you still love XH and I think for a lot of us ,it's been very obvious in your posts.
I see a change in XH bur I would advise caution The fog might be clearing but there is still along way for him to go. As usual , time will reveal all and this maybe the first step towards something great.
I've always admired you passionate side but maybe it doesn't help when it comes to waiting !!!!
Relax back and see what happens , give yourself time to see how you feel after a couple of days
Pink, Your h is still in MLC and he still has a lot of baking to due in the MLC oven before he's reached the end of his crisis. There are times when they have a huge moment of clarity (which I think your xh had) and they have to talk about themselves and what they've done to others. Once that is off their chests and we have listened and accepted their apologies, many of them go right back down in the rabbit hole.
Yes, your xh misses you as a friend, but time will tell just where he's at and if the rabbit hole has reclaimed him.
You did excellent in listening, etc. Continue as you have been and keep the focus on you and your family. Leave it in God's hands for now.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Pink, I agree with what RD and Job say. Your H was unburdening himself to you, and he clearly feels some remorse for all that has happened. Truly I would love to hear some of what your H said from my H. The closest my H got so far was to say - he knew he'd made some mistakes, but he hopes I see that he's a genuine guy who really knows what he wants now!
This is the time where you need to sit still and let the storm pass over. There is no need to do anything or say anything. It sounds as though you did well to listen to your H. You managed not to be reactive or to push him further than he wanted to go. All of that is really good.
I agree that he is still baking in the oven. This meeting may be followed by a pop back down the rabbit hole and some more 'self-centred' behaviour. Or it may be followed by further mature behaviour. I think the main thing is accept what he gives you right now and seek nothing more. Just switch back into going about your business and coparenting as before. Time will tell how things will unfold.
Take care Sweetheart, and be glad for what you have been given xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I wanted to chime in here as a former reformed MLCer. I've got to hand it to XH for initiating this convo....hats off to him. You handled it really well.
To me, this discussion is the beginning of the maturation process. What this means is that your XH is on a forward path toward healing and it has its own timetable. IF you really want reconciliation, the best way to achieve this end is to be excellent co-parent with him to the kids.
From that co-parenting relationship, then the friendship will blossom and I really think that you two will learn to re-discover each other.
For me, I would find it incredibly hard to ask Ms. Wonka for a second chance because it, to me, would be like swallowing pride and admitting to you that we acted god-awful to you. That is the real self-awareness that I am seeing here when the fog dissipates. The real benchmark for a MLCer on a path of healing is showing true remorse for their actions. It's that CRITICAL point when one can say, "ah, a true turning point...."
Pink, I read what KML posted above and understand her view. My only hesitation is that your H has been - as I think it was Wonka said - a kitty MLCer - regularly coming back for reassurance - but then continuing with the wayward behaviour.
Might it be an option to thank him for all that he said - acknowledge that it must have taken a great deal for him to have spoken in that way, and that you appreciate it. As for asking him whether he is asking for another chance, I'm not so sure - but maybe others with more experience than me may chime in. It would always be an option to let him know you are there if he wants to talk again at some point - and let a little time pass...
Xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Pink, when I read your posts about H asking for a meeting, I was kind of thinking that he wanted to have that conversation (that actually happened when you met), I just could not imagine it would be to this extend. Wow! I agree with kml that it took a lot of courage for your XH to come to you and have this conversation. I also agree that he just didn’t have a nerve to ask you for a second chance, especially after your NC attitude. He doesn’t know what is going on in your mind, he probably thinks that you are so done with him. To Wonka’s point, it could be very hard for him to do that next step right now.
I completely agree with the advice to let the co-parenting and friendship relationships to develop. I don’t think you need to do or ask anything at this point. Maybe just let him know one more time (when the chance presents itself) that you appreciate him opening up to you.
I agree with rd, job and Sotto too, about going on about your business and taking care of yourself. And, BTW, you did great listening to him and handling the conversation!
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
I just read back and bit has happened, the thing that stuck out for me is:
When asking for the meeting he said he wasn't trying to make any big changes
Yet now he's asked for forgiveness.
I'm not sure that's he's asking for a second chance, some people need to ease the guilty feelings by asking for forgiveness they think that herding you say sorry means the damage is fixed and any fall out is over.
That things go back to the nicey nice and they are now not the bad guys so no sins are atoned for.
It could be the beginning of the road, but maybe not yet.
I once read and I forget who said it if they want to r then nothing will stop them showing this they will if ready to do anything show it. There will be more than one chance.
M 46 h54 Both married before T 11y Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads! Ms 18 hs 26
Hi Peace - thanks so much for posting all that your h said. It is so helpful to those who follow. Of course, it seems to be what all the vets tell us it is. But, nonetheless, it still shocking, to me, that MLC is so very real. It was so painful to read that he had to lose everything to see what he had. They really do need to spiral down to that "rock bottom."
I have to give you tremendous credit for your kindness and the graciousness you showed your h. Your h's actions will show themselves but I hope that his words will give you the chance to continue to seal up your wounds.
You are a very good person.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Hi Pink. Thank you so much for sharing your post. Being someone who has a hard time opening up to someone I can be rejected by, I think your H showed a great bravery in opening up. You handled it great by just listening and letting him get it out.
Only time will tell what H will do in the coming future, or what his purpose was for telling you these things. I say take time to process it. After being hurt so badly I am sure his words are bringing on some strong feelings. Let it happen in its time, in the meantime, be good to you!
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Pink, I'm just checking in to see how you are doing. I hope you are feeling a little more settled in yourself and have been having a good weekend. Are you going to make it to your workshop again this evening? Drop us an update when you get chance and let us know how you are doing Sweetie xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Hi Pink. I can see why this is a very confusing time for you. I think Wonka is very wise, so I'd listen to her. I hope you made it to your workshop tonight.
11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker Reconciling since late April 2016 Don't give up until it's time, then move on Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
Hi all and thank you so much from the bottom of my heart, for all the help, encouraging words, wise advice... holding my hand while crossing the darkness.
I still have a hard time with the whole MLC, but I guess it is really happening and it is not a lose weight project.
I gave myself some time. It is still very confusing for me when someone talks in circles saying something but not saying it. And that is what XH did.
In MO, it has two takes: 1. XH is trying to come clean with his faith. He was always a man of faith and for a long time he has been away from God. He told me he has been talking to some christian man, he probably told them what is happening to him and they advise him that he needs to forgive and ask for forgiveness in order to move on. You see, XH is a physicist, with degrees in marketing and engineering, and a director of sales. His books are "How to influence people" and other in the same line. His brain works in numbers, projects. He journal his personal to do list, like his feelings and what to do with it.
The ones that are christian will understand what this means inside your faith. For a christian if you do not forgive, you won't be free. Forgiveness is not for the other person, as much as it is for you. If you ask for forgiveness then you cleanse yourself, humble yourself and it is not as much as asking forgiveness to the other person, it is asking God's forgiveness.
It sound stupid if you do not believe, but it is something very powerful if you do.
If it was his intention, then it means that he is ready to let go on all his guilt and deception. He is ready to follow his path and is getting ready for his next journey.
2.He is still using faith as a guide to achieve his own resolution, but he is being very sincere in what he is saying to me. He started recognizing that he did many wrongs that took him into the path he is in right now.
That he really thinks that his unhappiness does not come from me, as he said it, and it is inside him and he needs to work things out with himself.
So, I can think that hope is all lost or that there is a lot of hope. In any way I am the one lost here.
I was very frustrated, mainly because I am not very patient. The material I have been reading from the divorce support group has helped me today.
It helped me to realize that my marriage is totally over, and it is not going to be the next "Walking Dead" episode. It is gone, won't ever be back.
There is a slim possibility that XH may fall in love with me again, but that never may happen.
Right now I am afraid to have hope. I am afraid to believe in anything he says to me. I am afraid he will try to manipulate me into being plan B. I am just very afraid of this pain.
I guess the only way to go from here is to continue to work on my detachment, with NC or minimal contact, try to avoid XH as much as possible. If he wants to give a second time chance to "US" as a couple, a family... then he knows my address.
The only thing I want to do is to write a letter to him and be honest. I said I did not need to forgive him because I had forgiven him already and it is not true. This weekend I looked very close inside my heart and found that I have a lot of anger and resentment.
I want to be really honest about this. I am thinking to post a letter and see what you guys think. But the reality is that I lied to him, and he will see it in my behavior. I did not let go as someone that forgives.
Today at the workshop I wrote a goodbye letter in a blue paper. I said goodbye to all the dreams I had because I was married, goodbye to a family I had before, to the holidays and vacations we could spent together, to sharing a picture at our kids graduation, wedding, grand kids. I said goodbye to the time we finally could spend just the two of us because our kids are older now. I said goodbye for the chance to lay my head on his chest and feel safe.
I still think that XH loves in some way, but I can't love him anymore the way I do. I need this feeling out of my heart so I do not become a bitter old lady, stuck.
On friday night, XH came to the house. He knocked the door, when I opened it, he had a big smile on his face and was walking in. I hold the door not all the way open and said that the boys would be right out, then closed the door.
On saturday, he did the same, I did not let him in. I asked him about the kids insurance cards with him outside the house. He walked closer to the door and said that he was just waiting for the kids. I said to him: I am sorry for this, but you left and you do not want to come back. He was sad and said to me: It's OK, I understand. Then I just closed the door.
It's not easy. For me it seems like he uses everything to keep that contact with me. He is very irresponsible, I need basically ask him for everything. Insurance, taxes papers, need to see his mail, his stuff in the garage, money that he owns me, and so on.
This week I decided I need to find the way to be the best ofe me. Time for decision, time to change, time to be a very independent and happy woman again. I need to feel great, I need to feel worthy, I need to prepare myself for my next chapter.
Sorry to mumble so much. I am somewhat lost in the XH curb ball.
Hi Pink. This is just my humble opinion but you seem to be rushing at things again. Last post you admitted you loved him and now you are trying to end the paint.
I do think you need boundaries and you need to move forward but I would still relax back from making any choices that might be made too quickly
H did come forward so why not carry on as you are and see how things go. Of course protecting yourself with boundaries
Sorry this is so hard but you will come out the other side
This might sound trite, but I think you know in your answer.
It's still wait and see time. I think he reeled out some bait and didn't quiet get what he hoped for. Waiting and seeing how things pan out might be very wise. Don't chase don't allow him to eat too much cake and fall back into old habits.
You have come too far to just fold. Work to fix him comes from him. He might be testing the water but you I think need far more commitment than that. So being calm won't ruin that. It might speed him up if he thinks your really done.
M 46 h54 Both married before T 11y Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads! Ms 18 hs 26
Hi Pink, I agree with RD. When these convos with H happen - instead of reacting in some way (I want to write him a letter, close the door etc.) it is an option just to be still and do nothing different - ie: his words and actions don't need to vary your path at all.
You have recently D'd, you are recovering from your D and you have set some boundaries in terms of his behaviour. You are doing new things, meeting new people, working and looking after your kids. Maybe all of that is enough for now.
There's no need to close the door with your H, or tell him you haven't forgiven him yet. Why not quietly process things and let events unfold without doing anything. If you keep doing something, his actions always provoke a reaction, which provokes a reaction from him - and then I think you are on the rollercoaster again. But I think if you just sit quiet and do your thing, you stay centred and moving forward with life.
I think your comments on forgiveness seeking may well be right. But I think that is still a move in a good direction - ie: he accepts some responsibility for what has been done and realises hurt was caused and feels bad about that.
You're doing well Sweetie, and glad the group is helping too xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
You know me so well by now. I am a passionate person and that makes me very uncomfortable in this situation. Besides that I have my issues with rejection, and this is pure rejection.
Maybe it all have a reason, I also need to grow up, be stronger on my self confidence and let life deal with the rest. Learn how to be patient.
This all can sound very beautiful in words, but the pure reality is that thinking of what I miss in my M, I can say I miss the family value, not the family. I miss the marriage value, not the marriage itself. I miss the caring, loving and supportive H that I always dreamed about, but never really had one.
So what I miss are the values I have inside of me. Not the reality I had. I do not miss the electrician, plumber, mechanic. Not even the meals he prepared, because he always want to do good, but his food was not the best. XH was a career maker, a traveler, a single guy that would come home for comfort. He was a controlling father, my kids need to say "Yes Sir, or Yes Dad" as he always pointed out.
I asked him to think about our lives long ago, maybe he could change jobs and travel less or not travel at all and I got: "This is what I do, what I like to do and it is what I will always do". I asked him to slow down on the snowboarding because then we could save some money to have some different vacations as a family, and what I got was this: "This is what I like to do and I will do no matter what".
I look back in my marriage and I see me being a total fool, stupid, controlled wife with no say. I see I was strong and hold the family together for a long time, when I was too weak, the family was gone, it was broken. He did not step up to hold our family together, even after me saying I needed him more present, I needed his support. And to make things worse he got himself an affair with a work colleague.
Is this man learning all what he needs to learn to be a humble person that will love others at least the same way he loves himself? Or he is a narcissist and won't ever look at someone right beside him?
When he spoke with me last Thursday, it was not about me. It was only about him. It is about what he needs to do to clean his chest from so much garbage he knows he thrown on his family. He says he is unhappy, that I am not his unhappiness and he has been figuring this out. I really hope so, for his own good.
But it is again the selfishness coming through, he needs to find his happiness and does not see that helping others to be happy makes you more happy then trying to make yourself happy.
He talks about humble and for me it is a bunch of bull, he talks about forgiveness and it is a bunch of bull, he talks about forgiving me and it is a bunch of bull. He is just walking in circles and missing the big point in life. We need to give in order to receive. When you smile at someone, we often get a smile back, when we go out of our way to help someone, we get help from someone else. It is the unconditional love among man that keeps this world moving.
My biggest deal is to get this all resolved without hate. It is indeed a very thin line between love and hate.
There is an enormous list that he can start showing he is changing as a person, changing his priorities. He likes to say his kids as the only and most important for him in this world. Nice F*@ words, but in reality, he is not helping his kids in anything, not even talking with them about what is important in their lives right now.
Yes, I keep going back and forth with my love for this Jerk, because for some reason I can't explain very well, I can detach easily, I can't just let go. There is this deep feeling in my heart that needs to dissipate and it is not going away.
I guess it is time, giving myself time to grief and move on. I just want to be blind anymore. XH does not love me, does not love his kids and for sure he does not love himself. Maybe one day he will wake up from what he call life. I hope he can face his soul naked of all his garbage and finally become the person he think he is.
In the meantime, I will keep taking him from my heart little by little, and one day it will be clean, just clean of all the wounds he created in it.
The positive in this is that every day there is a new reason to love myself. The changes are more obvious now, I have friends asking me what happen to me. That I should be hurt and bitter and I am actually much better then when I was married. Some go as far as saying that I am a million times better divorced.
Maybe it all happen so I could get myself out of prison.
Pink, I think your signature says it all. You've been moving forward since last October. It seems you've come a long way.
11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker Reconciling since late April 2016 Don't give up until it's time, then move on Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
Sweetie, come on and sit next to me on the sofa. The Big Sofa where we process stuff together.
It seems that you are reeling from XH's latest revelations and self-realizations. Right now, it is imperative not to make any assumptions about his motivations or intentions. Unless you've lived inside his head, you really just DON'T know at all.
Frankly, I do not see it as XH making any resolutions or taking firm steps toward one particular outcome. At that time, I believe he was sincere in expressing his remorse which is a BIGGIE for an MLCer. Now, I am with you on setting boundaries and keeping them for now as a self-protective measure. I get that. Good job on keeping XH outside in the front door and not letting him inside. He's going have to do some more internal and external work to earn your trust again after all of that awful stuff he's pulled out over the last several months/years.
However, I wouldn't be too hasty in slamming the door in his face because he didn't meet your expectations of doing E,F, G in that precise order or in a particular way. Take his words at the face value for now.
What you really do need right now is to step back to process your emotions. Your emotions are trying to tell you something and you react by wanting to write a letter to XH because they are very uncomfortable with you.
What I do when faced with uncomfortable emotions is to sit on the Wounded Child Sofa and have a chat with her about what's going on. I'd bet the Kent Farm that you'd find a bunch of stuff that you didn't know were there all along.
Own your emotions. Own your reactions.
Step back for a bit. There is no firm timeline or deadlines for time is an illusion. There is NO urgency here, Pink.
It helped me to realize that my marriage is totally over, and it is not going to be the next "Walking Dead" episode. It is gone, won't ever be back.
This ^^^ is your Wounded Child crying out loud. It doesn't necessarily mean it's totally over. Not from where I am sitting. It is a new trajectory. That new line is not yet being written. At this time, it is a new energy for you and XH. How you two handle it is UP to you.
I can understand your fear: being really hurt ALL over again if you were to open up your heart again to XH. I had the very same reaction when Ms. Wonka and I communicated again. I went a bit stir crazy and Fort Knoxed my heart with a bunch of spikes in the road and other gazillions of booby traps to prevent Ms. Wonka from entering my heart again.
If he wants to give a second time chance to "US" as a couple, a family... then he knows my address.
Honey, it goes both ways. You also need to be at a place to given XH a second chance as well. It takes two to tango for a reconciliation.
However, it is critical that you go into self-care and allow time to process these emotions. No decisions need to be made today. Next week. Next month. Allow it all to unfold organically.
Instead of a letter to XH, you might want to journal to yourself to better understand the latest revelations and what they mean to you. Whatever works for you.
Wonka, I am all over the place emotionally, I have been crying at work, what is not that good since I have patients today.
I will do what you say, sit on my inner child sofa, yet I know it is not going to be fun. I guess I am avoiding to cry more, to hurt more, but I need to go there literally.
It all comes back to my father loving me on the distance and never saying it to me. I comes back to my mom spanking me, and I faking my way through life, trying to always please my mom so she would not have a reason to blow on me.
I will follow the advice. I am so messed up right now. My emotions are all over the place and it wouldn't be fair even with myself to make some move that I will regret later. All what is happening to me right now has no face to XH, he does not see it or even suspect it. (I would guess).
Right now, I should not include him in any of my transformation, it is my time to morph and I know I need to do this for my own good. I am actually amazed of how transparent I have been that you all can pick it up by just reading my words.
Wonka, you know I have been changing and the road will be bumpy for me. That I need to come to terms with my inner child and accept that child. Let go on the original wound.
This does not change the strong person I did build up, does not change a caring mother I am, does not change my faith or the smile on my face. This is my emotional balance in accepting what it was and realizing the pain that is hiding on a close drawer inside of me.
I will do it tonight and see what happens, I will write it tomorrow, it is time... time to clean the dirty laundry. It is time to visit that child I tried to forget.
I am also very thankful I have my kids, in some moments like this, it is indeed what makes a different in holding on one more day and not giving up in it all. I feel very tired, very exhausted.
11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker Reconciling since late April 2016 Don't give up until it's time, then move on Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
You've got a lot on your plate emotionally. It will take a bit more time for you regain your footing. Perfectly understandable.
You might want to think about IC, if not yet have one. Shop around for one that you can connect with and will push you with compassion instead of pussy footing around you.
Yes, I have SEEN you grow because I do visit your threads. That is something that NO ONE can take away from you. It is yours to own and claim for yourself.
All of this a process. Not a competition to get from point A to point B and down to point Z. Like the Lotus flower, it opens up at its own sweet time.
One final comment is that you might want take up Brene Brown as I've seen DBers swear by it. It might be something worthwhile for you to explore on your own and with IC.
Pink....I'm sorry you're going through all of this. I have no advice but just want you to know that I think of you often and pray for you and your family.
Rain (moi): 40 Ex Fiance: 39 3 kids On/off again EA & PA Last BD by ow 12/15 Moved kids and myself back into our own place: 12/15
You all made me think, search in my heart what is important for me, look in the mirror and see the person I am, and most important learn that life is not always "getting the bull by the horns".
I searched inside of me and found: 1. Rejection - it is my biggest challenge in life. Every time I feel rejection, I retreat. I take myself from the picture, I feel like I don't need to impose myself in anybody's life, so I get out of their way. In my twisted mind I do this to save someone of the inconvenient, but the reality is that I am just escaping, protecting myself so "I" am the one not to suffer.
2. Perfectionism - I need everything perfect. The right time, organized, color code, with tags, clean...etc. I go far to ask to everyone around me to be perfect too. Came to understand that no one will ever be perfect and much less myself. Life is full of imperfections starting from birth until we die. Came to understand that it is pure control and does not bring anything good into my very own life. Letting go on the "need to be perfect" makes me see the things that really make a difference in loving one another.
3. Hate - Learned very early in my life that "I can eat cold". Learned revenge as a form of getting my wounds healed. Raised most by my loving grandmother and hated by many on the family because of that, I learned that one day they will fall and you will be the one standing, the last to laugh. Learned to be strong, face the enemy and give back to them once the opportunity comes to realize my venom. Little I knew that the realized venom was poisoning myself.
4. Love - I am old, and yet learned so much in the last year and a half. Learned to love unconditionally. Had the pleasure to meet this person I had inside of me that is compassionate, caring, patient, quite, giving. The results of finding Love inside of me is the most amazing experience in my life. It's some kind of freedom that makes me want more of it. It makes me whole and brings me a smile to my soul. I am in love with myself and it is an incredible feeling. I feel I can embrace others with all their imperfections and still see the good that comes through.
The resolution: After sitting on my inner child chair, I realized that I go up and down in my emotions, but I am just normal. I am starting to find some mechanisms to cope with the pain, be gentle on myself when I am feeling like crap, and be proactive when the good feeling is all over my being.
I also find that R issues won't be resolved over night and that patience is a gift. That I have some strength on me that I never even tough would be possible.
It is yet another day and I am breathing, maybe XH won't ever come back, but the experience from all this mess is taking me to another level in this life and for that alone I am thankful for.
I found comfort in strangers, sharing life online with people that care about me just because...
Instead of going spastic and loco on the last situation with my XH, I decided to follow the advice from my DBiers friends. I DID NOTHING. Kept my silence, my boundaries, my cool.
This was my last interaction with XH, I reached out to him for help yesterday: 7:47pm - Me - Hi hun, could you take S18 to his guitar lesson tomorrow? It starts at 6pm.
10:03pm - I can. Is 5:40pm ok to pick him up?. Sorry for the delay in responding. I was at the church I told you about.
10:11pm - There is a bit of rush hour that time. I normally leave at 5:35 max. You are amazing, proud of you. I was at church too. Now I am at the supermarket, and finally home. Long day. Thanks and have a good night.
10:13pm - Ok. I will be there. Good night.
Friendly, a 180 for me using words to translate that I actually care. Saying to him without reservations that I am proud of him, that he is doing a good thing and it means a lot to me. And from where he is sitting, he knows I am not doing this begging for him to be back. I am just caring for a person.
I also realized that many of XH's moves are temperature check and he is doing this reacting to my changes. I started to think about his words to me with a little more compassion and found that he said a lot to me. He said that what is still stuck in his mind is that I told him that the worse feeling for me is that he never gave me a chance to fight for our love and that he realized now that he actually never did it.
He said that he needed to lose it all, material and emotional possessions to find out what he had.
That he was blind and confused and that now he can see it better but is still confused.
He told me his plans to get himself whole again and in a better place, find himself and be better.
Told me that he is very proud of me because I never lower myself in the midst of all this pain. That I am a strong person and that he admire it the most on me.
That he misses me, misses the unconditional friendship, that he could tell me anything at anytime and he knew I was his cheerleader and would support him for whatever. I that now he has no one he trusts as he trusted me.
So, Wonka, going to my inner child chair brought up the best of me. Brought me back to emotional balance and priorities. And my priority is not revenge. It is my family. I built this family many years ago and I am still fighting for it. It is important for me and I believe that my heart is not yet done hoping for my family.
I love you all, and I really hope to be in a position to help others to find their way too, I am maturing.
I know XH won't stop checking on me. He still have a long way to go, he still need to sit in his inner child chair. He will temp test me because he is not sure if he would come back to a nightmare. Once again I need to be the lighthouse of this family, and I will be.
Thank you to all of you that are being a light when all the other lights are gone and darkness invade my soul.
Pink, I am so happy that you came back today and posted an update. I'm very proud of you! You looked within and now are very much aware of the things that you can chance and those you can't. It takes a lot of time and patience to travel this path, but you will get to the end when you are ready...just remember...slow and steady will get you there. Don't beat yourself up if you aren't there by a certain time. Do not compare yourself to others because we are all unique and do things in our own time. Slow and steady is all I can say to you today.
Your interactions w/your h would excellent. Yes, he will temperature check you quite often. The calmer you are, the better it will be not only for you, but also when you interact w/him.
Keep up the good work. You don't realize it now, but you are already helping others by posting your thoughts, etc.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Pink, I was so pleased to read your post above - good for you with the introspection and insight! I had to smile at the perfection parts. Brene Brown has lots to say about perfectionism (protection against vulnerability she would say.)
Do you notice that you have a tough time and then surge forward? Reading your post above makes me think - yep, she'll be just fine ultimately...whatever your XH may be up to.
Take care Sweetie xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Pink, I'll be the third to inquire as to how you are doing. Are you doing okay?
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hello my dear friends, thank you so much for checking on me. I really appreciate it.
I have been super busy and life is moving forward.
Update:
1. Bought a new family car. My boys need to be more independent and with one car it was almost impossible, not saying that I was getting pretty tired driving like a mad lady all the time.
2. Had a meeting with my financial advisor to get my 2015 taxes done. Need a half dozen info and soon have it all done. I need that asap so I can do the Fafsa started for S18 college.
3. S18 finally made up his mind and will join CU music program. Which he has passed the admission process already. We have a meeting tomorrow at the college admission office to go over details and have a college tour just for him. Cool.
4. Have vision and dental appts set up for everyone. Need to schd PCP check ups. S21 has his sleeping tests schedule for tomorrow afternoon where his brain work will be measure, then he will have a machine connected to him to measure his brain patterns when he sleeps. After all this then the doctors will determined what can be done to slow down his brain. His IQ was measure again 176 and they suspect that his brain is not slowing down at night. Go figure, that is a work in progress.
5. Got a step forward in our family business material and we are ready to sent it to prototype phase. Well, we are trying.
6. Have been in my divorce group meetings on sunday night and it's going well. Was surprised on how many folks hold some hope to get back together. Went to some activities, some I did not have the time. But I already have good friends there, including one DB friend. She found me by a sentence I said to her. Wow. That was awesome, and she is awesome too.
7. Went to Zumba class what is always a blast. I like to shake my buddy. Went to a Samba party and met some of my divorce group friends there, also some other friends. It was enjoyable and I danced the whole time. I guess my changes (mainly in my soul) are visible now. Had many people telling me that I am glowing, that I look really nice.
8. Had lots of text exchange w/XH. A. 1/28 - XH was trying to figure it out on logistics to take the boys to Aspen for the XGames. I said it would be fun for them. I also told XH that I will be out of state from 3/4 to 3/6 and asked if he would be in town in case the boys need him. He said his schedule is not final but he will do his best to be here for that weekend.
Later on Thursday I told him I would pick up the kids from school and also asked him for the children expenses for the months of oct, nov, dec. and he said he would give me a check on Friday.
10:45 XH confirmed they would be going to Aspen.
B. Saturday 1/30 - XH sent me a pick from the kids at the games saying they got there and it was snowing. Later, he says?: Of course, they hate it and a smiley face.
I then wrote this, and I don't even know if it was right or wrong, but was me: Of course. Nothing please them and now I know it. I am learning to let go and don't get upset with myself and ruin my day because the brats don't like something. Many times I put them first, got stressed out trying to please all three boys and forgot you. Now I see what a big mistake I did. I still have them, and they still "don't like most stuff". Nothing like life to teach me. Thanks for the pic. Looks like fun. Love the colors. Have a good time for yourself.
XH - I do not take it personally anymore. I am finding it humorous. We will see the Snowboarding Super Pipe finals in 1 hr. Arguably the coolest winter sports event on earth. It will be hard for them to hate on that, but they are very creative.
Later XH - They have a tent with Halo 5 world championship...LIVE. No one wanted to play or even watch until they were completely bored with everything else.. So boring!
Later Me - Oh Gosh, so boring. When they finally get to something cool and fun, like Hallo 5, then it would be better if it was Gears of War or Call of Duty. Go figure. I guess if we just get it as Love, then we can think we are the most loved parents in earth. Do you agree?
Much later - he text me saying that they arrived at the hotel and that the driving conditions were horrible. I just thank him for letting me know and said good night.
Then it was sunday and lots of text about logistics, what I answered I would be in my class when they would get at the house.
They got stuck in traffic and showed up very late, I was home. XH dumped all the boys stuff in a living room. I asked if he was taking the kids dirty clothes to wash, what he answered he wouldn't, like he was surprised. I told him I would do this time but he is supposed to drop off the boys with clean stuff the same way he picked them up. It's not my job to do his job.
Then I went inside and did not care that he was dropping stuff or not. Once they were done, the boys went upstairs and he was by the front door, then I said thank you and good night.
XH just stood there like a wet dog. I asked if everything was OK, which he did not answer. Then I moved closer and asked what was going on. He started crying, not hysterically, just sad and lots of tears. I pulled him in by his jacket and closed the door then asked what was wrong and what have happened, he said it was just life. I then looked him in the eyes and stated more then question: Why did you do this to us XH. Look at us.
XH said: I know, I just don't know what to do.
Cira said: Well, I will live my life the best way I can, and you will live yours. Be happy with your decision, follow your path, be happy with your French girlfriend. He cut me off and said kind of mad that he does not have any girlfriend, that he is alone and that I need to believe him.
Cira said: Well, I believe you can have a good night, see you later. Gave him a big hug, got a very tight hug back. Gave him a kiss on his chick and got one on mine. I closed the door right away.
Then on Monday, I got this devilish feeling and sent him a text with a little yellow duck holding a note: Hope you feel better! and wrote under it... Hey XH - Good Colorado Snowy Monday! Hope you are feeling better today!
To which he answered: Thanks for the kind words.
Then yesterday I got his February schedule with the kids for the second time and again it say: 2/7 - Super Bowl?
Yeah, he wants to be invited to watch the super bowl at my house. And I am not very sure about that. There is part of me that does not really care because I am not too attached to material values. But there is a part of me that is getting it... XH does not want to come back and I think he won't ever comeback, so why to play family when you want to get rid of me as you did? Maybe, just go see the game by yourself. At least he won't need to endure my presence.
And you all will say: there comes her rejection issue. She rather run away then face it and try to be the best she can be and show him the new power puff girl in the block.
Ahhg - Any advice on this bowl game? I will be coming back from my Divorce group anyway.
So, this is my update of major stuff. Lots of small things in between. One thing has been changing again. I am getting very hopeless about XH. I think he made his mind and is done forever.
It's hard to see things that way, but it is a reality for about 50% of the USA married population. Or maybe, I am finally getting to detachment, what I always tough would be impossible.
I don't know. Still hurts, but like grief now.
Love you all and hope you are all doing some crazy adventures.
Pink, All I can so is "go girl"! You've turned things around and look at what you've accomplished thus far in less than a couple of weeks of being on the MLC Forum!
I think you've handled the texting w/your xh very well and back and forth about the scheduling sounds iike it is going smoothly. I had to chuckle over the dirty clothes and I'm sure it shocked him to no end, but I don't blame you. You sent your sons on their way w/clean clothes, therefore, they should return the way they left.
Your xh shedding tears and telling you he doesn't know what to do tells me that he is conflicted...but he's already made the decision and that is to leave his family and live on his own.
Now about the game, it's up to you, but if I were in your shoes, I'd let him figure out what he's going to do about that one. He can stay home, go to a friend's house or go to a sports bar and watch the game. Do you want him in your space all afternoon and into the evening? You'd be fixing snacks and meals for him while he's there. It's no longer your place to take care of him...but that is all up to you. After all, he fired you from being his wife a while ago.
BTW, I think you are providing some really good advice to the newest member over on Newcomers'.
Keep up the good work and whatever you decide to do on Sunday, it will all work out.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Pink - The guy is crying, telling you he doesn't have a girlfriend, doesn't know what to do, trying to make contact - he wants back but you have already made it clear to him that you've moved on so he doesn't think he has a chance with you.
If you actually want him back, I think you need to at least ASK him if he is wanting to reconcile, or give him a little encouragement. I think it is your own fear of being hopeful that is making you push him away right now.
smile, really. If he wants to be a big dad now, then do what needs to be done, at least that's what I think. Why is that my job when we are sharing custody?
I am even giving him a break because he does not have a place to have the kids on his days. And by the way, I already told him I will start charging for the meals he doesn't give to his kids on his days because he does not have a place. It's not my job to be sorry for him.
KML, What? How do you understand that he wants to be back? Am I missing something?
He never said anything about coming back. I think that maybe if he is thinking to come back he would say something.
I don't know... the day that he asked for forgiveness I went to that meeting prepared to be disconnected, just listen and don't say much kind of attitude.
When he said all that to me I basically froze because I was basically understanding that he was asking me if we had a chance.
But I did not go there, I decided to keep to myself and not be a fool saying something stupid that would hurt me.
He spoke wverything. But said it all in circles. He did not say with all the words that he would like to give ourselves a chance.
Would it be that if he wants a chance to come back, that he would try to get closer and closer? Like even pretending something to talk to me more? Uh
Would that be that eventually he would be more open and talk a little straighter?
So, one more thing for me to learn. How can I check temperature with him?
I really don't know and I do not get what is going on. But then I think he is so done with me why should I expose myself to all the hurt again.
Pink, You will know when the door opens enough to ask him some serious questions. Ggrass has some good ideas on how to broach the subject...but here's another one that might pave the wave for a conversation w/your h. You could say something like "H, have you given any thought as to what you are going to do in the future?" That will give him something to think about.
Always remember, lip service is just that...but if he truly wants to reconcile, he will have to do the heavy lifting in convincing you that you are number one in his heart. Your h may have a lot of work to do before returning, i.e., that is if you still want him to return.
Until then, continue moving forward.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Anjo. Good to see you post , I have to agree with some of the other posters , it does seems to me that XH is coming out of the fog or at least the fog is thinning.
I think we are very alike and we need WAS to spell it out but will they ever? Can they ever ? You keep making it clear to him that you accept his choice and your living your life , which is as it should be BUT its also showing him the door is shut.
Pink , you are afraid of getting hurt again and I certainly don't want that to happen but I think opening the door a small bit and seeing what happens wouldn't risk to much. Small things like the game might be opening the door a tiny bit.
Whatever you choose , we will support you IMHO you love H so I would advise you take the small risk and open the door. He made a huge mistake and hurt your whole family but sadly mistakes happen.
Just my pennies worth Anjo You deserve happiness and you will get it
Job, don't know what happen to my last post, but the beginning was to thank you for your support and tell you that it was kind of funny that you chuckle about the "washing clothes". It made me smile.
Thanks GG, I certainly need to find some way to check on things, I am just too scared to ask. What if it is the wrong perspective and he just say I am going crazy?
But KML made me think. XH has said that he is seeing things in a whole different way. That he was very mad with me when it all happen in 2014 and that now he can see that I was totally right. That he was a complete jerk to me for a very long time and did not gave the support I needed when I needed it. That he was selfish and did not see what he is doing, he was blind and now he can see it more clear.
He has been showing his changes. He is always available if I ask or need anything. He has been dropping off and picking up the kids to and from school. He has been communicating more. He treats me with extremely respect. Always polite and caring.
He never say "no" if he is invited in a house. He has been very respectful with the boundaries I told him. A big one is about the kids, maybe it was easy to just ignore it but if I search my heart, I would say that is a huge change.
Today I got this text at 10:24am (not over analyzing, but he is the middle of morning, at work, and he is thinking about his family): Hi Cira - Please let me know how S21's testing goes today. Also, tomorrow afternoon I will not be able to pick up our sons from school. I had a presentation reschedule to 2 - 3pm. Sorry about that.
These were my complaining, this is what got me to let go on my M. He would not care about his family and what was going on with his kids life. That he was always immersed into work and never involved in what was happening at home.
Now, it even makes me cry that he wants to know about S21 tests. I can barely believe it is happening. That he is not just saying it and then no follow up. He actually remember it is today.
Why he wants me to tell him how the test went? It could be because he is trying to show me that he cares. He can just talk to S21 about this. This is actually one thing that I keep telling him. Our boys are teenagers then he can just talk to them and they will let me know whatever... but he keeps coming to me for all the stuff with the kids.
Am I seeing horns on a cat's head? Maybe. And that maybe it where I am right now in regard of this subject. I am very, very afraid of getting hurt again.
Seems like a pretty good place right now. On my own, sometimes have some low time but in general I am moving along life lines. No big pain, no discomfort, no implications... I feel kind of good now.
So what do I do? I have no F* idea. I guess I need to crack that door a little open, but how?
I do not want to just ask him. That is not fair that I need to be the one with the big pants here. I also know that XH may be very afraid of me. I am cruel when I want to, actually I can be the most cruel person in his life. My venom can be fatal.
So, I know who I am and he know well who I am. I know I am stronger then him. Maybe he knows, but I doubt, that he is my strength.
As I write this I am finding myself trying to avoid all this. Maybe if I just let go, then it is what it is. Just nothing.
What is going on with me? I also don't know well how to feel about this. So, the big question is yet to be answered:
DO YOU STILL LOVE THIS MAN?
Good question, can I sleep for three days and then wake up to answer that?
Gosh, I think I will move into the mountains and live with the grizzle Bear, that may be a little less dangerous.
Well, I just want to crawl into a dark corner and be forgotten there. It's amazing that when I think that the pain is gone then something happen to remind me. I feel just like I felt many times after my mom had spanked me badly and all I did was to hide in a corner of my dresser and stay there without moving. Many times I feel asleep there. I just pretend that I wasn't there, that I did no exist and that it was all some fake life.
So many wounds, maybe I will just be by myself and nothing and no one will ever hurt me again.
Dramatic? My kids would say and tease me because I speak in movie lines. But that is where I am right now. Lost again. Because it is not just finding out if he wants to be back or not, it is also to find out if I want him back or not.
I think I want to share this with you all. You always make me think in many different directions and normally I can find one that fits me better. So once again, I will relay in my friends opinions and help.
Hello lovely. Sorry not posted sooner...early start & long day. I think this is the critical part here:
"XH just stood there like a wet dog. I asked if everything was OK, which he did not answer. Then I moved closer and asked what was going on. He started crying, not hysterically, just sad and lots of tears. I pulled him in by his jacket and closed the door then asked what was wrong and what have happened, he said it was just life. I then looked him in the eyes and stated more then question: Why did you do this to us XH. Look at us. (here, I would just validate - I'm sorry you're feeling that way - do you see how your hurt led you to ask this question?)
XH said: I know, I just don't know what to do.
Cira said: Well, I will live my life the best way I can, and you will live yours. Be happy with your decision, follow your path, be happy with your French girlfriend. He cut me off and said kind of mad that he does not have any girlfriend, that he is alone and that I need to believe him. (if you hadn't alluded to the TauC, this would never have happened - he switched straight from sad to mad.)
Cira said: Well, I believe you can have a good night, see you later. Gave him a big hug, got a very tight hug back. Gave him a kiss on his chick and got one on mine. I closed the door right away. (This part I liked.)
If something like this happens again, to me opening the door a chink could be a) purely validating and being sympathetic as I've fed back above, and doing all else that you did, or b) maybe asking him if he wanted do come in for coffee. Then listening to him talk and validating, and nothing else - no mention of OW, no asking what he wants - just being there as a non-judgemental friend would be. Perhaps just for half an hour - nothing too heavy - then gently showing him the door when you have had coffee.
I think the mistake would be to push too hard or let your own hurt out at this stage. All you are wanting to show him is that the door may be open a tiny chink here, but I don't want to get back on the rollercoaster. We're not going to jump into bed together. But we have a history, you and I. I can see that you are sad, and I will be here for you for a little while tonight. Then that's it. Next day, you go about your day and think nothing of it. And if the same thing happens again, you could make a little time for him again with no expectations.
Also, I think take the pressure off yourself. You don't need to decide right now whether you love him or want to be with him. All you need to decide is whether you want to open the door a chink. The rest can wait for another time. Above all, protect your own heart and act in a way you will look back on and feel at peace with.
JMHO of course, and I'm glad your group is going well & you're making new friends xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Validate Which is the way I would go be supportive and show that side. . My take is he has to come to his own space where he feels he can ask and it's his choice. Perhaps asking would be a temp check and give him the felling your still there.
M 46 h54 Both married before T 11y Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads! Ms 18 hs 26
I think so too. Validating won't do any harm since we need to do the parenting.
Don't really know how to find courage in me to step on uncomfortable ground. I guess I get stuck on every step of the way. Now I am stuck in NC.
I keep trying to avoid XH as much as I can. I got his texts yesterday and did not answer it. Part because I was just too busy, and part because I just didn't feel like.
Today, I got another msg from him at 7:16am, asking me if I got his last 2 texts.
What the hell is this. Do this things really happen. Your XH text you every single day? I tough that the big D means something different.
I just don't know anymore. He is still driving me insane. One of this days I will just explode and tell him that he can make up his mind or leave me alone for good.
Sometimes it feels like this is just a bunch of bull and very smelly. Does he realize I have a very heavy load of work and responsibilities every day?
I just wish that one day he can come down to earth and smell the coffee. But by the way, I let my anger on the side and answered him this:
XH - Hello Cira - Did you receive my last 2 texts?
Pink - Yes I did. And I am sorry I didn't answered you. Have been really busy. I guess I can only say that I was a complete fool when many times I complained that you didn't help me. Well, now I need to swallow my own venom. Thanks for teaching me.
Not much from S21. Everything went well and he slept with the machine attached to his nose and chest. Today he will bring that back to the clinic and when they have the results then they will send it to his doctor and we go from there.
S21 can probably pick up the kids today. If not, then I will. Thanks for letting me know.
Don't know if he told you, but S18 and I were all morning visiting CU campus yesterday. We did talk to his counselor. Lots to do yet.
Wishing you a good presentation today. Have a nice day!
By the way, did you go to church last Tuesday?
Maybe not so bad, don't know, I feel kind of tired of all this stupid stuff. I am kind of down on myself in this area today. No very hopeful anymore.
But by other hand, I am kind of good about my own life. Looking forward to the Super Bowl game and party on sunday. Some of the kids friends are coming over and it will be nice.
Have my divorce group class schedule on sunday at noon so everyone can be free at the time of the game. I will be bringing some food for lunch.
Funny how things change. Not too long ago I was dying to get a text from XH, now it irritates me.
Pink, Divorce to normal couples means going their separate ways and possibly not having a whole lot to do w/each other except for dealing w/the children, etc.
In the MLC world, many of them want a divorce and yet, they truly do not understand that divorce means the end of a relationship and people go their separate ways. To them, it's just something that sets them free to do whatever they want and unfortunately, many of them do like to keep the contact going because they can't let go and when the former spouse moves on they do everything in their power to keep the connection going. (Like in your case w/all of the texting by your former spouse.) He wants your attention and to remind you that he's out there.
Pink, you are under no obligation to respond to all of his texts. You have the control here and if you think the texts aren't worth responding to, then don't respond. I do think your response to his text was excellent. After all, you are a busy woman and unless the texts are an emergency, you don't need to drop what you are doing to respond to him.
Don't allow him to bring you down. Continue as you have been and enjoy the game and party on Sunday. I think you doing great!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
So, he sends me three msg to which I just read it, didn't anything about it.
1st - I went to church last night (Thursday) because they canceled Tuesday service. I feel like my grandmother found this place for me. (he was very close to his grandmother and she died a few years ago).
2nd - You know that we can find ways for me to better support you with our sons, in terms of funning errands, doctors, etc.
3rd - Also, we will not go to Copper on Saturday, so I will plan to pick them up around 2pm to hang out together..
I will just ignore all this. I need to calm down because I am very angry at him right now. Everything he is doing is exactly what I always complained about him not doing.
Now, all the sudden he is Mr.Helper, can "better support me"!!!
Who the hell he think he is to destroy my life with his adventures and then try to hurt me even further with this Mr.Nice Guy now. I always needed all this, I did not have it, now that he is away, after all he destroyed in my life then he is trying to help?
I just want to ask him very politely to go to hell and never come back because I do not need this idiot anymore.
He is making me mad, but with all the madness I am so sad. I wish I don't get so worked out with his stupidities, but I do. I want to go away, far away from here and never see him again.
I do not text him, I do not ask anything from him, I do not start anything, I do not show up. I am living my life like he is dead. Why is he doing this? Why he can't think a little harder and see that this can hurt me?
And maybe that is the point, he wants to hurt me more. He thinks I did not suffer enough. I made a good divorce for myself, maybe he thinks it was unfair that he lost so much.
I know, and I know, and I know. My inner child chair. I am a good girl, I do things right. But I just need to dump all my frustration here. You are the only ones that I talk about this right now.
I did not cry for quite a few days and he made me cry today. I will just ignore him. I will just let go. He does not want to come back, he just want to punish me.
Pink, To him, he's trying to gain your attention and provide acts of service to please you, i.e., just like a child. It's all about him and what he wants to do to make things better, but he's not stopping to realize that you have feelings and that his jumping through a few hoops now may not be what you want at this time.
I understand the anger...but breathe! Your man/child is trying to do things to show you that he wants to be a part of your life. Now, it's up to you to decide whether to leave the door ajar or something else.
Dig deep for patience and try to find a bit of humor in all of this. Here you are distancing yourself from him and he's trying to pursue you w/everything he has. Who knows, maybe he is waking up a bit or it could be that he feels guilty about the way things went down and is now trying to make amends and also to be able to tell others that he's doing all he can to assist you and your sons. Time will tell...
Pink, it's okay to vent and be angry. But at the end of the day, you will be okay no matter what you decide to do. You are not alone and we are always here to listen.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Pink, I guess you are a stronger person than I am. I'd still take my partner back, even though she is a weak coward and an idiot partner and broke my heart and ruined my life. I don't know why I still see her as the answer to all my troubles. I just feel so alone in this world, and so very frightened. I'd love to be where you are - you're in the driver's seat here. I'd give anything for my partner to be helping me out and asking to spend time with me. But I guess you're really done with your XH, so luckily you can choose to send him on his way.
11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker Reconciling since late April 2016 Don't give up until it's time, then move on Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
Hi Pink, sorry you've been having a tough day. I see Job has advised wisely already. And I also feel that your H is trying to make amends in some way. Or he wishes to make himself feel better by offering help - I don't know.
If you are feeling so upset about things, just have minimal engagement with him. I think there is a boundary issue here though. Perhaps it will be a good idea to think about the level and type of contact you want with him going forwards, and when you are clear about that, just let him know. For example, if he always comes through you to arrange things with the kids, let him know to contact them direct - and so on.
Who knows where he is going with all of this - my main concern is you, and that you survive and thrive. If that happens, I'm happy! What you said about getting texts resonated with me. There was a time I checked my emails hoping for something - now I'm pretty pleased if all is quiet.
Take care Sweetie xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Job, thanks. Looking at your perspective I can see that. XH has been my man/child for 19 years. When I married him, he was a mess. His clothes were in boxes, all mixed up. He would were a shirt that would come from dry cleaners. He had dirty clothes mixed up with clean. It was pandemonium.
He rented an apartment and just piled some furniture he had. We did not have even a table to share our meals.
I put order in his life, I organized him. His closet was beautiful with shirts, pants, socks all in colors from light to dark. He had everything at his finger tips.
His finances got better and better, and we were even able to purchase a house when we moved from Boston to Boulder. I did it all, bank, insurance, health care, all.
He was a man with identity, he was a husband and a father. Now he is lost. He is the director in a big company, but he is no one outside that world. Now, that he is making peace with the Lord, he is finding himself empty. I know that because I know him.
I had a sandwich and feeling not so hungry and not so angry anymore, I recalled what Wonka advice. Do a very good parenting with him and that may be the connection to get you two closer. You will become friends and that will be the friendship you both enjoyed one day.
I hope I have the strength to do this. I know I do actually, I am just being a chicken and afraid to hurt me holding hope. And I get this "No Expectations", but I also see it as: "Who am I kidding here", of course if I crack that door open it is because I hope he will come back.
Actually, if this was really true, I would be in heaven. He is becoming the man I asked him to be for a long time. I know he is a good person, he was just so disconnect from our family life. It was very hard to have someone and have no one.
I will centered myself. These days it has become a lot easier to just snap back into a calm, centered, gentle me.
Many times I was not feeling so good about myself thinking that would be so nice to be some "Barbie" or a little princess with a pink dress. Now you know my secret, why I am Pink. And yet, I never could. I am the tomboy, I played baseball in the streets, soccer in a mud field, I fried frogs and ate it in the woods, I was a receiver in a handball team, have some not so nice little fingers because I broke them playing volleyball.
Later, I was a biker, leather clothes, good and bad weather, kind of an European gothic, surf, traveled.
Now, I understand why was all that in my life. I wish I could be week, but I am not. There is always this desire for life. There is always the next smile, the next positive thought.
I will think more, and harder. I will find the way to work with him on the things that he is coming forward and maybe we can develop some kind of friendship from there.
I am trying to convince myself that he is just doing all this to be a good father. But as much as I want to justify many things, I can't ignore that he is not going to the kids, he is coming to me. He is indeed trying to call my attention. He is like: Hey, Cira, look at me, I am being the man you asked for!!! I am being a good boy!!!
I love you Job, you are my guardian angel. Thank you so much for helping me. You are amazing.
NYGal, sweet pie. You are strong, you just don't know yet because you are still giving more power and control to the other person. As soon as you think that you have that power inside of you, then you will find out it was always there.
Look at you, if you are so weak, would you be doing this divorce support group? Facing your fears, your anger, your reality?
No, this are traits for strong personalities. Give yourself credit... cry a little bit, then give yourself more credit, then you will feel good about yourself.
Don't ignore the pain, let it go through all your bones, skin and blood. Use that pain to make you stronger.
Enjoy the sun today, it is gorgeous. And at least a few degrees warmer. Tire of being a penguin.
11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker Reconciling since late April 2016 Don't give up until it's time, then move on Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
Pink, You are stronger than you think. Dig deeper for patience and understanding. You are learning the lessons that most likely we all needed to learn...you know what one of the lessons is? We can't fix everyone. We have to learn to accept that we can only fix those things that are within our own control. God has to fix your h. You can't do it. Yes, you can leave a crack in the door, but that doesn't mean he can just jump right in. He is going to have to earn your trust and love once again. He's going to have to grow up and you can't be a mother to him. His lesson in life is to learn to stand on his own two feet and not rely on you or anyone else to get his life in order...he has to do that.
So, Pink, it's time to start a new thread. How about something like "Hear me roar! I can do this!
I look forward to reading your new thread and just watching you grow and blossom more and more each day. You've got this.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
