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here are the links links to my previous posts

wife gone deep in the tunnel?

wife STILL in the tunnel ... more fog.

no clue where wife is, cant see past the FOG

a brief review

after BD wife has changed into a person who she once criticized. Hooked up and moved in with the first guy she met online. Her soul mate.Together 2 weeks after BD and living together 1 month after BD.

Neglected and verbally abused our D's. Hurt them so deep that they refuse to be part of her life even if she wanted to. This was made easy to them. Wife abandoned them. W is now 5 months into not seeing them. Only 10 emails reaching out to them with no real effort about seeing them or being their mom.

Cut off all her friends, her Father, sister, my family.

I am the source of all her sadness. Her anger is towards me. Yet she never told me what i did or didn't do. Only said she has to find herself. Does not want to be married, doesn't want to be a girlfriend, a mom or a friend. Needed to find herself. Was not happy.

We are in mediation but we haven't had an appointment since September. No clue when the next one will be.

W gave me full custody like she was giving away old clothes. Took half of the furniture in which she lost when she failed to pay her apartment and abandoned it all to move in the OM

MIL who supports W to continue her path. MIL did the same crisis at W's age so she says its OK. MIL turned into a narcissist , selfish cold woman after her BD.

D's even reached out to MIL when wife had a very bad episode of anger towards the D's. They were scared and crying. MIL shut them down and told them they were liars. That was the last time the D's saw their mom and the last time they spoke to MIL. Aug 4 2015.

Since then , I redecorated the house for D's and me. We went camping, hiking, biking, zoos, movies, sleepovers with friends and family, new puppy, all great new memories.

W missed, both their birthdays, summer school for my D15 where she got A's ( 90's in Canada).removed the lower part of D's braces, meeting my youngest D13 boyfriend, Christmas and my D's first new years kiss from a boy.




Last edited by Irish M; 01/01/16 05:53 PM.

M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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First off, HAPPY NEW YEAR 2016

I also want to thank everyone for their support. JOB, 123Gwen, MLeigh4, LouR, bttrfly, mirage, Peacetoday, AJM, brightfuture, RD500, kml, Sotto, Delboy, and many many more.

I am blessed to have the support you all give me.

recap from last week.

21st December : Wife reached out to the D's , wanted to give them their Xmas gift. D's refused to see her. The messaged her. She then messaged me. Wanted me to convince them to see her. I said no.

W wanted to hear it from them personally on the phone. I told W they would call her that night since I will be at the dentist with D15 that afternoon. W called the dentist to see if i was lying. ?? wow .

I convinced my D's to talk to their mom. Wasn't easy, so that evening the D's spoke to their mom. It wasn't pretty.
I ended up talking to W after . W threatened me, she wanted me to force them to see her on the 24th for a lunch. If i didn't W would never sign any forms to allow me to travel with the D's. I told her I had full custody and didn't need her signature. Said bye and hung up.

23rd December:
At school the D's get paged to come down to the school office. The secretary says to them
"your mom wanted you to have this for Xmas"
2 gift cards. Both D's were embarrassed and angry, getting these in this manner. They wanted to throw them away but decided not to.. they messaged me to see if they can mail them back to her. I said we'd talk about it when i got back from work. They were both so mad they wrote on the envelops some nasty things to W and decided to walk to her office 10 minutes away and put it in the mail box there. ( W still works in the same town as where we live. She moved 45 mins away. She is looking to transfer her work to that town).

27th December. I feel bad about the way the D's spoke to W on the phone (21st dec) and what they wrote on the envelop. I message her.
" I want to apologize for the girls behavior. They are hurt and needed to express that. It has been bottled up and needed to be released. We didn't raise our girls to talk to us that way. Wont happen again."

I didn't expect a message back. Got 2.

message 1:
W: I understand. I hurt them and broke up the couple, the marriage and the family. It's all my fault. I never thought it would be like this and i am paying for my choices. These consequences are more than what I could have ever imagined. I miss them and wish they forgive me. Merry Christmas.

message 2 December 28th

W : I miss your parents, wish them merry Xmas for me..

I don't reply. Took the great advice from Job, LouR, MLeighs, Mirage and bbtrfly. 5 out of 5 LBS agree, No reply...Let her sit on this and think it through herself. Small pocket of clarity.

31st December

W: wish you a happy New year and wish your parents a happy new year for me. (no mention of the D's)

my reply:
you should do it yourself.


Why the sudden interest in my parents?

She was closer to my parents than she was with her own parents (separated when she was 8, MLC mom) . When she first deleted everyone on Facebook. The only connection she kept was my mom. I helped my mom delete her because she didn't want to see W on there with OM. My mom understands what W is going through. she feels so sorry for W being so lost but at the same time doesn't want to be part of W's destructive life right now.


Again all words no action from W. most likely a low point for her not seeing the D's at Xmas. Her birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks. the D's have made it clear they will not see or give her anything. W missed both their birthdays. They are teens (W included) can't expect them to play nice.


Last edited by Irish M; 01/01/16 06:49 PM.

M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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Hi Irish

How are you?

I think the holidays may create some desire for the MLCer to wake up momentarily
so maybe that was the interest in your parents

Maybe she wants to feel she is forgiven-

I do believe they think about their choices and the loss they created but the pull to go deeper into crises is too strong for them


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Irish, I agree with Peacetoday, its a moment of clarity and its the 1st Christmas away, this was tough for her, but don't expect her to change her ways anytime soon, if at all.

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Hi Peace, I am doing great thank you :-). I Had a much better Xmas and New years than I could have ever imagined. I Hope you are doing well too.

I don't know if W wants to feel forgiven. My D's have told me they wont forgive her ever if she continues her life path. She will have to rebuild their trust again. They are teens so they will hold a grudge. As they get older they may want to reach out to her. Maybe a coffee or a lunch. Who knows.

W did say because of her actions she is paying severely the consequences and they are far worse than she could have ever expected. I actually felt sorry for her until my oldest D told me this.

"Dad its funny "her name" (since they refuse to call her mom anymore) says her consequences she is living... worse than what she expected." D then gave me that look like what ever. Then she said this " What about what we lived through the last 5 months." She ran down the list of awful things W did and said. The conditions we lived like camping until we replaced the furniture.. how it affected so many people around us, friends and family.

D finished by telling me... "we deserve better than her felling sorry for her loses."

I stood their speechless on how mature and clear D15 sees this. Like I said.. W will have to move mountains to regain the D's trust and compassion. They keep reminding me to stop feeling sorry for W. She made this mess we don't have to live in it.

Braveheart - I feel that too. clarity on her own loss and what she is missing. nothing about our feelings in this. W has a long way to go. I expect nothing from her.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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Your daughter is very wise! She makes a very good point. I have seen a pattern on here that they feel sorry for themselves long before they think about what they have done to others.

I am so happy to hear you had such a nice Christmas and NY smile


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
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What a wise daughter you have! She is definitely a very astute young lady who can see through the poor me attitude of your wife.

I, too, am glad you had a nice Christmas and New Year's. I hope this year will be a far better one for you and your daughters.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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that kid has an old soul.
blown away.
you are a lucky man to have such a wise child.

xoxoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Hi Irish M, Just to say something about the Walk Away wife. In late July 04 My wife sent a letter for all our D's to see. In it she wrote "I had that letter sent to Dad (Threat of divorce, to try and get the monkey (Delboy) off her back) to tell him i'm not coming back home and it's time for you all to move on."

Love

Delboy

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Hi

Glad you are doing well and you all enjoyed the holidays

Its good to be on the other side of Christmas and into a New Year-


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Hi Everyone, thanks for the replies and support. Every time I read your messages I get stronger. Positive energy does wonders

I am very lucky to have both my D's in a good place and state of mind. Their understanding of what their Mom is going through keeps them from feeling mad or sad all the time and missing her.

I had contact via text with W today. We restart mediation again at the end of the month.

This time she also apologized for all the hurt she has caused me and the girls. The damage is done she says..she cant fix anything. Reason she left and did what she did... She was hurting inside and in pain, wasn't happy at all. She didn't know what to do and how to do it. So she ran. ( how she doesn't see this as a depression i don't know). Of course never mentioned anything to me about this.

Now she's not saying she will fix it or wants to fix it. I know my W. In the past she will accept her consequences and move on. Even if it is to lose the D's forever.

What she's told her new friends and family is hard to erase. Their impression of her is more important. ( Sad a mother will throw away her D's for a cheap friend that she's known for a few months.)

She wished me and our D's a happy life together. Still thinks the D's will miss her and reach out to her one day. I know they won't. They get colder to the idea of W as every week passes.

D15 said the only way she will accept her mom is that if she gets an apartment in our town. Seeks help to solve her internal pain. Has no OM until she is fixed and settled. Then rebuild her relationship with the girls.

I think that's a great plan. will it ever happen. I don't think so. Not anytime soon. She is so connected to OM and drinking and smoking pot... her happiness is being taken care of.

Many questions and I need some advise.

- What do i say as a reply?
- Do i say her pain is a depression? Shes only running from herself.
- The crap she told her new friends means nothing and they will be gone in a year while her D's can be in her life for her lifetime.
- Do i say nothing?
- Do i say i forgive you and this is the worse of the for better and worse?
- Do i tell her i'm here if she needs to talk and leave it at that?


Is this a start of her exiting the tunnel or still just some clarity. OM is still in the picture. She is living with him. I know until he's gone and she has gone through withdrawal, she will not be done cooking.

love you all. and we all need a good 2016.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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Irish I defer to the vets. Say and do nothing until one of them weighs in, but I do think you shouldn't do a thing that would be perceived in any way as pressure, pursuing or being weak. I hope this helps. YEs, we all deserve a much better 2016. xoxoxoxo {{{hugs}}}


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Hi Irish. I am glad to hear your W opening up with you again. I guess she is realizing the grass isn't greener? Not sure what to reply, but if it was me, I would probably say something close to the "I'm here if you need to talk" idea. Being the mother of your girls, I always see friendship with your spouse as being an important step and example.

I am sorry for all the pain, for all of you. Stay strong.


Me 48 H 46 S 11
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BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
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Irish,
I guess I would have to say "W, I'm sorry that you are hurting and I'm here if you want to talk". Nothing more. There's no need to go into detail about the depression or her friends. She has to figure that stuff out for herself. Keep your reply short and sweet.

As for her exiting the tunnel...nope. They go through periods of clarity and that's when you get messages such as the one you did.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Irish



I like what Job says..

So that way she feels heard and the door is open to speak with you if she chooses. If she sees you as a friend, she may be more willing to contact you and
reestablish connection with girls

Maybe this is a start that she is admitting her pain to herself and out loud
but in addiction it is very hard to stop and add MLC into it,,I think thats why it takes so long

It is very hard to understand why they are willing to "give it all up"
logically makes No sense

hang in


married 14 years
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Hi everybody thanks for your suggestions

I did reply this morning. It was more about financials since we are resuming mediation at the end of the month. I was soft at the last mediation about $. Not to upset W etc. As time went on and I grew strength I will not allow her to walk over me. My D's deserve to have a good life. Me giving everything to W to please her is wrong. I'm entitled to my fair share. So I stated a few financial facts and for her to get her financials in order for the next meeting.

I think her opening up was that she was being sorry for her own situation and missing things. Not wanting them back. I won't offer to help her. She shows remorse about her pain and not the pain she caused.

I did say to her that she needs to stop saying she is always there for the D's. It's a lie to herself and it only hurts the D's when she does no real action.

This first post for 2016 was about me getting out of my own personal fog. It's me standing up for my and D's best interests. To be stronger than I was last year and don't dwell on the idea it will upset W. She left. If she wants back well she can work on herself, figure it out and do some real action and not just talk crap about her feelings.

Not sure if this is still DB'ing but it feels good.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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It sounds good..you sound empowered --you are taking care of yourself
and yes your W will have to figure this out


I agree D is a business deal…I would definitely get your fair share and the girls

W has no one to support except herself..you have all the responsibly

My XH practically got nothing ..it was his choice..his addictions.. his affair

I at first wanted to split some things like our business but when he proved to run it into the ground, come to work high, or not shoe at all- and spend constantly,,he lost that too

I have no regret about anything I did..
I was as patient as possible-

I am grateful I was able to save our finances for me and my kids
I think when it comes to the financial end and where we have full custody
thats needs to be fully taken in consideration


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I also agree that the D is a business deal that needs to be taken care of to insure your finances and the welling of not only yourself, but your daughters. Your wife is going to have to figure things out for herself. It make take a lot of time to do so, then again, she may opt to continue running and looking for that illusive happiness that they all search for...but you can't sit around waiting for that to happen. Life is far too short and it flies by quickly and you do not want to miss one minute of the time you spend w/your delightful, but wise girls.

Do you want think is necessary and fair.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi Irish

Just wanted to say hi and thank you for your visits to my thread, I really appreciate all of the advice and support you give me. You are getting great advice from vets on here so I'm not sure anything I say could be of any help. I've finished reading your threads. You are such an amazing Dad to your girls, that is very evident, and you sound like you're doing so well.


M-43 H-42
S-11 D-7
T-19 yrs
M-15 yrs
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Hi Inpain

Thanks for dropping by. I'm sure I could learn as much from you as you can from me.
It's all the support and views from different friends here that post to our page or just the situations we read that help us get through this.

In the end it's ourselves that decide where we go and how we get there. I just decided that W is not in it for me or the kids. I don't look at her FaceBook and the kids avoid it 100%. She pulled herself out and disrespected me and the girls so much. Would I take her back. Only the person she was has a chance. How long I'll stand.... All depends on what she does and where I end up on my journey.

You are an amazing mom putting your kids first. Never forget about yourself but the kids suffer the most. And it affects us more than the loss of our spouses. This is not a normal seperation.

I am stronger than I was when I started here. Thanks to reading up on this so much.
I haven't read so much in my life.

Thanks for the visit
X irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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Yes, I know what you mean! These terrible situations turn us into great readers! I've lost count how many times I've read DR from cover to cover since November and I sit reading and reading on these forums hoping for some sort of miracle inspiration, that one thing that is going to fix it. I know it doesn't exist of course but somehow the searching makes me feel useful.

As a woman I cannot understand what your wife has done at all. I cannot imagine abandoning my children. There is nothing in this world that would make me do that. Thank goodness they have you to be a rock in their lives, bless them. I slipped up and asked my H if we could talk the other night. Apparently, according to him, we have talked. Not enough for a 19 year relationship, 15 year marriage and 2 kids we haven't, I said. He just walked away. He's getting really good at it.


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Hi Inpain,


I don't understand my W either. I think it's because of the bond I have with my D's It was always strong and its getting stronger. W may be feeling like she doesn't have a chance or just too guilty to face them. Who knows.
I know a lot of my woman friends are scratching their heads because W loved them so so much.

When she carried them during each of the pregnancies and they would move too much I would lay my hand on W's stomach and they would stop. No more kicking. I would rub W's back every night and talk to the baby while she carried them.

When each of them were born I was the one who would wake up at night and feed them. If W was breasts feeding them I would go and get the baby and bring her in the room as W stayed in bed. Then I would change the diaper.

As they got older story time was so important. I would make up the adventures of Jeremy.

I'd sit on their beds before nighttime and listen to them tell me about their day. Comfort them if a bully at school called them a name or teased them because they had freckles.

I would volunteer at every daycare and elementary outing.

W was not neglected either. Date nights, told her I loved her and she was pretty, sexy and smart. I told her I was proud of her. I'd send her flowers at work on every occasion and even on days that were just to say I was thinking of her.

Vacations 2 a year.

The D's saw all this. It made the love in the family stronger. When we got married we got married as 4. Before me and W exchanged vows.. The D's were given each a ring to tie us as a family. 3 years ago. So the D's remember it well.

W breaking this family is her leaving. We are still tied together me and the D's.

She can't look at them with all her guilt. Her anger and manic way was projected on the D's as much as it was on me.

I'm sure she will crash. My D's have said they are done with her. I know they love her and it's their way of protecting themselves.

I promis you this. I won't let W back if my D's don't accept her. W will have to get their trust back. I will protect them from this crisis and from W. I like you had kids to not let them get hurt or emotionally damaged. This crisis won't follow them in adulthood.

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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Inpain

Just an added note:
You didn't slip up .. You needed to ask him to talk. If you didn't it would of built up and would of come out another day another way. You asked him , he gave you his answer and left. You are still not happy with that I'm sure. It's so frustrating. But let it go. Learn from his response. You'll be surprised as this goes further down the road you will know what , how and when to say things to get him to talk. Take notes on what works and what doesn't.

You were left for dry, on the side of the road with no chance to get back in the car because he drove off.
Sadly he is in a car with no rear view mirrors and he can't see you hurting and crying. He doesn't want to see it.

And it would of been so nice if our spouses told us how they were feeling before BD. If we had a fighting chance .., but we don't.

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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There is no chance because they are the ones that have to heal their past

many of us could have turned our lives upside down for them and still they would be unhappy

They are for the most part unwilling maybe until their bottom hits hard and then only a lucky few will get it


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I agree with you Peace. I am one that would of walked on fire to make my W happy. I always have. Knowing that she was unhappy or in pain or whatever she has... I would of been supportive of her 110%. Me letting her go and never giving her my thoughts about what she is doing is proof that i am supporting her still.

We just didn't get that chance to work on it together. I think that is what stings the most.

part of my 2016 work on myself is to delete all texts from W. I use to read them over and over. Analyzing them to see if she is showing signs of the old W. I did the deleting today. The bad part is I read the last message she sent to me again. Funny how they read differently after a few days.

It was the one with her saying she was unhappy in pain. Didn't know what to do or handle it. I wish I didn't read it. I got a bad feeling like maybe she wasn't happy after all. She didn't love me anymore etc. I forgot for one minute the things she said and did. How she treated the D's. How she cut off her old life for this new one. She left to find herself but instead found OM. All those memories flooded back in my heart and soul.

So I went back to thinking this unhappy sadness she showed me in the last text message was still script. I questioned once again if she was MLC or just normal.

Its funny how I can forget the bad in all this because of the loving memories of the Old W. I think that's what keeps the LBS standing. We hold on to the good of our relationship and what we built as a couple, family etc. Sad thing is the MLC holds onto the negative and the rewriting of history they created to justify what they are doing. Keeps them running.

So to bring me to this point , I deleted the texts. Its all script, why torture myself and make me question her MLC. She is in MLC and I wont bring myself down anymore analyzing her script.

Off to ski with the D's ... GAL smile and be grateful for everything else.

love and peace of mind to all
Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
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BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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Hi Irish,
Hope you had fun skiing with the girls. Here's some virtual hot chocolate for all of you. Thanks for stopping by my thread.

Good for you for moving forward. I'm sure deleting the texts was hard. I know what you mean about the memories keeping you going/standing. xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

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So tomorrows mediation is set and confirmed. I will be going into it as a business man. Finalize all the financials. She walked away from me, our kids and our life. She will not get away with walking away from the responsibilities of her debt.

I haven't seen her face to face since the end of September or beginning Oct last year. I cant remember, it`s been sop long.

I'll be honest I am nervous. I have a vanisher so I don't see her changes, moods or anything. I don`t see her on Facebook (my choice). It will be very weird sitting next to her.

Her birthday is next week, I won't mention it at all.
My D's have instructed me that they want nothing to do with W's birthday since she missed theirs. If she asks I`ll reply- ask them yourself.

I sometimes wish she was more like other sitch`s, that I would have weekly contact at kid exchanges or she still lived here. I know it`s hell for some. I guess i miss her more today since i will be sitting in the same room with her for an hour or so.

The last time she looked like an emotional wreck. Hands and head were shaking. Looked tired. she still couldn't`look at me in the eyes.

I am not going in there to be hurt. I am passed that. She can`t hurt me anymore. I will try not to imagine her looking amazing. I will take tomorrow as it comes.

What I am afraid of is I will see her as her mother. Cold and insensitive. If she acts more like my MIL. I will be shaking my head in disbelief. I will probably just give up all hope.
She is better than that I know. I just don`t think she has the strength to get through this and fix her mistakes . Especially with the D`s. Her pride is too strong....but then again I never thought she would abandon them either. Who knows.


Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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Irish

So yours is a vanisher, mine a clinging boomerang. However mine too reverted into acting not just as MIL which really upset her as she despised how MIL treated others... Apple/tree right?

I did mediation twice, yes ... Twice. Neither time went through even though the second time I was at peace with it. I have some advice, well... Maybe not advice but this is what I did. I went in dressed as I would for a business meeting, I also adopted that mindset, I knew my rights, what I was not willing to settle for and I was not going to give w one penny more than what the state would recommend, not out of spite nor pride but if I gave a dollar more than I would have needed to it was going in her pocket and in my mind I was stealing from my S. She wanted it, she would need to feel all of its consequences
I got a haircut, and went in happy and at peace. To that point I did all I could and made so many changes I looked at this as a final chapter to a book... Was a good book but I knew there was a better book ahead of me to read, I even shared a joke/story with w in the meeting room as she attempted small talk, I can't tell you how much this confused her.
Your w is in crisis, no other explanation for her actions, actions which have serious life altering consequences.... Ones she is not currently equipped to handle, I seen this as a way to love, if my w needed the divorce to finish her journey, I was more than willing to set her free. She very well may need this to hit bottom, keep in mind she is suffering and in her mind she is scrambling to find anything to get rid of the pain .... She must exhaust all options before she actually can do the work
Sorry you have to do this, been there and it's painful, I pray you find a bit of peace in all this knowing it's her journey and she feels this is the only path, tough love proves she has to figure it out on her own


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Hi Irish M, Just A copy of another letter for you to see, and how really messed up the MLC's are. I hope everything goes in your favour. Mine couldn't face me in mediation.
So I told God what I could/would pay her, and it wasn't a penny more than the amount I told God I would pay her!

Love

Delboy


Hi good folks, yet another handwritten letter from my then estranged wife. Written 3 weeks after she had moved in with the other man. My additions are in brackets, and I got to know one of my clients called Robert very well, and he wrote her a letter after I asked him to!
He sent it to my address for me to forward on to Liz.



Wednesday 18th Feb 04

Dear Delboy,
Thanks for your letter and the verse ‘Risk’ which I’ve read many times (before) but this time it brought tears to my eyes.
I did not know that I had total freedom.

I am really pleased that your business is taking off and you are making a profit, all your hard work is at last paying off.

I received a letter off Robert telling me about himself and how highly he regards your (R…..) service, he can never express how grateful he is and that you should be highly valued for your gift (talent). He seems like a real genuine man.

I will not be seeing my counsellor this week due to half term, I find that talking about my feelings really does help. It’s a pity that I didn’t do it before. I will need more than 6 weeks.
She asked me last week what did I want, I said “to be friends with Delboy and to see the girls”.

You say that marriage guidance counselling would help. I will leave it to you to make an appointment.
Take care
Liz

P.S. I don’t hate you as much as you think (I do).



(And as you might guess she didn’t/wouldn’t come to Marriage counselling with me).

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Hi Irish- I want to wish you the best for tomorrow. I won't say "good luck" as I think that infers depending on chance and I think you need to be strategic here.

Cali has given you excellent advice, as he always does. Ultimately you're dealing with a breach of contract here and it is necessary to protect your and your daughters' interests.

I haven't commented much on your thread. I do read along and I think you are a pillar to your daughters. Your situation is particularly heartbreaking to me, as a mother myself. As a society I think we are sort of desensitized to men who leave their families. It's wrong but it happens so frequently that we somehow make a place for it. It is so rare for a mother to leave her family. Honestly, it scares me because who knows what could happen to me and my own mental status.

I do live my MLCer and because you two are NC, I understand you are wondering what to expect. You can never know with an MLCer. I think Cali's advice is outstanding. The way he told a joke in the mediation is exactly how I suggest you should be, that is: act as if. Be business-like, accomplish what you have to but without hostility. Hold your head up high and just act as if you are moving forward, no problem. I would not get into any of her drama with her. Personally, I would say very little about the situation as they are so illogical it is a waste of your energy. Continue to leave her to her own mess and let her find her own mop.

Again, wishing you the best tomorrow.


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Hoping all went ok

MY xh was around every weekend for 2 years then no contact for the last 7

I also have sometimes wish for "Normal" divorces where people share custody and get alimony
but with MLC nothing is normal..it is what it is and seems to be very close to the way an addict/addicted person would live their live
running hiding and never facing reality or responsibility


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Cali and HaWho gave you great advice Irish. I will add this: know what YOU want. That's sometimes really hard to figure out, but once you know what YOU want, everything else will fall into place. That was the first bit of advice from our mediator. It has proven to be quite sound.
There, just saved ya $350 and hour wink take the girls out on me wink
Seriously though, good luck. Stay strong. This is a business meeting, no more, no less.
There will be time and place for the relationship / emotional piece. Not here. You and your daughters have been through enough. xoxoxo


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BD 4/6/15
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^^^^ been thru enough meaning don't get caught up in her drama, if she tries to drag you in. xoxoxo


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BD 4/6/15
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Hi guys thanks for the support:-)

Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
I went in dressed as I would for a business meeting, I also adopted that mindset, I knew my rights, what I was not willing to settle for and I was not going to give w one penny more than what the state would recommend, not out of spite nor pride but if I gave a dollar more than I would have needed to it was going in her pocket and in my mind I was stealing from my S. She wanted it, she would need to feel all of its consequences
I got a haircut, and went in happy and at peace. To that point I did all I could and made so many changes I looked at this as a final chapter to a book... Was a good book but I knew there was a better book ahead of me to read, I even shared a joke/story with w in the meeting room as she attempted small talk, I can't tell you how much this confused her.


Cali great advise...this is exactly what I plan to do. Actually W has a lot more $$ to lose since she bailed on her own debt and thought I would just pay it off as the nice guy I am (when she was my W). She is not my wife. I will make sure she pays her own debts. I owe her nothing.

Originally Posted By: Hawho
I think you are a pillar to your daughters. Your situation is particularly heartbreaking to me, as a mother myself. As a society I think we are sort of desensitized to men who leave their families. It's wrong but it happens so frequently that we somehow make a place for it. It is so rare for a mother to leave her family. Honestly, it scares me because who knows what could happen to me and my own mental status.


Hi HaWho..yes it's mostly men that are the ones who abandoned their kids. I know 3 other cases just by talking about it to friends in my town that the Woman has done this. They all ended up alone because men don't stand. Pride and ego prevent these men from doing so. The men I know here that stand are true men. Like the Women who stand for their men. It's a true shame that most of them go noticed to their MLC. I can't imagine what you and your kids go through when witnessing your H behavior.

Originally Posted By: peacetoday
MY xh was around every weekend for 2 years then no contact for the last 7


Hi peace :-) 7 years. I know your story and I am so thankful you are still helping so many here. I know it must also help you keep sane. Your kids also know its not their fault or yours. Your XH reaching out to them after 7 years is just opening the wounds. Your Daughter handled it so well and I see that strength in my 2 D's.

Originally Posted By: bttrfly
know what YOU want. That's sometimes really hard to figure out, but once you know what YOU want, everything else will fall into place. That was the first bit of advice from our mediator. It has proven to be quite sound.



Thanks for the advise bttrfly, you saved me 350$, so yes I will treat my D's to some winter ziplining and skating in the old part of town. Winter festival starting. Can't wait.

Yes we have been put through enough. It is this life's challenge and how we deal with it head on that will shape my D's future. I see them strong and they will not fall into this cycle.

All of you gave the best advise combined. I will go in there on a mission to protect my family.. even though its without W. She skipped out. We didn't. If she's mad that I am not holding back well that is her to deal with. She won't drag me down...

I am so pumped now lol. Wish I could have the mediation meeting now at this minute.. I will re-read all this advise in the morning before I go.


thanks again. I needed this

xxx
Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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Ditto to all the above Irish. You got this! You are not alone, we will all be with you in spirit smile


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Hi Irish, I'll be thinking of you and hoping the meeting goes as well as these things can do. You have already had some good advice. Like others, I think the best approach is 'business meeting' and try and put any hurt feelings to one side until you get home again.

Who knows how things may ultimately turn out, but for now there are some things that need to be resolved in order that you can both move forward. I'm at a similar stage to you, but we are doing the process via email as H lives a few hours away now.

Take care and let us know how things go xx


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Crazy day and I use that term very lightly.

Mediation appointment was this morning and W was there. I sat down and did not start any conversation.
I can see her looking at me in the corner of my eye. She whispers. “How are the girls?”

I reply calmly that they are fine. Schools is going good ect.

She then asks “why the D’s still are mad at me?” I ask her what she thinks the reason is.
She replies” because I left you”.

I smiled and shook my head. I reply. “No. it’s more than that.” She then goes into the angry mode. Saying I am keeping the D’s away from her. She is their mother and I should force them to see her.

Remember we are not in mediation yet. We are in the reception area waiting for our appointment to start.

ME - “you are their mother and you decided to abandon them. You hurt them more than you can imagine.”

W – “I never abandoned them. I want a list of things I did bad to them. “

ME – “you had an apartment – lost it – moved away out of town. I call that not being in their lives and running. You neglected them to the point that they don’t want to see you. Took their keys from them, insulted them, told them lies that they saw through…. ” She cuts me off.

W – “I don’t want a list anymore… I couldn’t afford the apartment. I had no choice.”

ME- “So you kook up with the first guy and move in with him?”

W – “So in order for me to see the kids and to have them wanting me back, I need to move back to our town, break up with boyfriend?” She is now looking at me with this huge grin waiting for my reaction.

ME – “I don’t care what you do with your boyfriend. You should put your kids first, be there for them especially during a separation. They want a mom not a friend for hot chocolate or a movie.”

Long pause

ME “I don’t want to talk about this. It’s been 7 months and this is a conversation we should have had then. We are here to finalize the separation financials and be divorced ASAP. You will be free and it’s done. If you want me to help you with the kids to reconnect I will but I won’t force them.”

W is clearly unsettled now. Starts turning in her seat

W – “I don’t need your help….This isn’t working for me. I don’t feel like I am properly represented here anyway. I’m leaving and will continue this through my lawyer”

She gets up as the mediator comes to greet us. W tells her she is leaving and cancelling any future appointments. Says she still doesn’t see her children. They don’t want to see her.

I stay quiet until she attacks me. “And H (me) is controlling the kids against me. They don’t respect me at all. I left him not them. I wasn’t happy any more. I will go through my lawyer. Force him to sell the house. I gave my D’s Xmas gifts through the school… they returned them to me at my work. H (me) drove them. They wrote nasty comments on the envelope.”

ME – “The Xmas gift was nice but wasn’t delivered in the proper way. The secretary presented it to them in front of a bunch of kids and they were insulted and embarrassed. They were also teased about this from kids. I did not drive them to your work to deliver this because at that time I was at work. I also apologized to you for their behavior via text in which you said you understand they are angry at you for what you had done to the family and them.
Sure W, I am the puppet master, I control the D’s and they weren’t witnesses to your new personality...”

W looks at me with an angry look. “You be quiet I don’t want to hear nothing from you”

MEDIATOR – “if you want me to meet the D’s and discuss with them”

ME – “Sure, I am open to this idea. I want to proceed with mediation since we got this far. I can have the D’s here anytime.”

W – “NO, I will deal with it through my lawyer.” And she walks out.

So nothing but a mess today.
Not sure if she is starting to realize things are coming to an end and she is trying to delay it.
She knows that the laws where I live listen to the kids and at their age they have a say in the matter.

She went from trying to find herself at BD to blaming me when she left, then it’s all her fault for breaking up the family at Xmas to blaming me for everything today.

Oh the joy of MLC


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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Well, not a shocking revelation .... Things are not playing out as she perfectly had it planned. I often pondered how my W had mediation all set and we never made it past 1 meeting.... Heck you didn't even get out of the reception area ...lol.

Her going lawyer on you seems nothing more than a power play here to try to regain control and punish you for poisoning the children you wicked wizard you. You did well, being all for the mediator talking to the kids set her into the final spin cycle. As with all things like this... She is most likely going to slow cook and I would expect either Ms Nicey-nice or Mrs Monster... Most liked a combination of both


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Irish,

I totally agree w/Cali. It's going to be very interesting to see which personality will come forth and speak to you in the near future.

She was playing the lawyer card to get you to back off and regain control over a situation that she created and she knew she was very wrong about all of the things that you identified.

I think you handled the situation well and I'm not surprised you didn't even make it into the meeting w/the mediator. Now, that's a first!


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Irish

sounds like you did handle it well
you were authentic and kind
Im sure the truth is not what she wants to hear

Mlcers do not live in reality and maybe they can't really understand it
life passes them by and nothing within them changes except maybe it gets worse

she may even be quiet for a while..trying to understand or stuff away all that transpired today


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Irish, you did great. I am sure that was not easy for you. Sounds like reality is starting to hit la la land. Hopefully she will process today. I am going to take a wild guess that the lawyer threat is just that, a threat.

I am glad you are past that. Hope you have a good night.


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Hi Irish,
Nice truth darts. Truth stings, doesn't it? Oh well. As others have said, you did well. I'm a bit surprised that they didn't put one of you in a conference room. I'm trying to remember if we were ever left together for any length of time before sessions started. As for your bride, she staged that entire thing from beginning to end. Oh the drama in that threat. How is she planning to pay for this lawyer? What she's essentially saying is she wants a contested divorce? So in my state lawyers charge hefty retainers for contested divorces. My understanding is she has $ issues? You see where I'm going with this.

Just keep breathing and living your life. What are you going to do with the girls at the Winter Festival (besides ziplining, etc)?

xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
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BD 4/6/15
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Irish, all I can say is that you did great! She is a mess… She doesn’t want to hear the truth about what she did to the girls. It all sounded like a temper tantrum, coming from a person who is still mostly concerned about how she feels, and not about other people’s feelings. This it tough, Irish. All you can do now is be strong for your Ds. They are so lucky to have you. Sending my support and some positive vibes your way!


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Bright,

It's interesting you say it's about how she feels.

Their was a saying I read not to long ago and it goes something like this.

"to live life how you feel, life is a tragedy, to live life how you think, life is a comedy.

I've seen this with MLC'ers over and over again, here especially.

Mirage

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Hi , once again thanks for the support and encouragement.

I keep thinking about the mediation. I know its pointless to do so. I can only learn from it but whats done is done. What's said is said.

Cali and Job - Yes I didn't even make it past the receptionist desk. The mediator seemed as surprised as myself. Of course I expect an invoice for her lost time.

Peace - I'm not sure she will be quiet. Its her birthday next week. I'm sure that she will reach out to the D's asking to seem them because of her entitlement. She missed both of their birthdays and I know the answer that they will give her. It's all in their hands. My birth-date a week before BD1. She wrote the nicest message to me on Facebook. My mom still talks about it. She also gave me the best birthday celebration I have ever had from her. It was magic. No, I won't be wishing her happy birthday.

Mleigh - Not sure if reality is anywhere in W's lalaland. The truth was too hard to handle so she ran from it. Not sure what she took in. Probably all erased by now. Who knows.

Bttrfly - Truth darts, I didn't even realize I was doing that. It all flowed so natural and I stuck to the facts. What she believes or says she doesn't believe I know my girls don't lie. I spoke to her as if she was a stranger attacking my D's integrity. My D's are not going to be trampled on with her crap.

They did offer us separate rooms. W said no point.

The winter festival is on for 2 weeks and they overlap 2 other festivals in towns 2 hours away. So we usually get to do them all. There's zip lining , tubing, skating, igloos, BBQ, dog sled and horse sled rides. Best of all fried dough dipped in cinnamon sugar. Best of all is the sugar toffee on snow. Everyone please say YUM.

Bright - W is a Mess or is this the new her. Yes she is narcissistic and no empathy. In W, I saw a person that i don't want to be friends with, date or take back. It's so easy to detach when they are like this. How she slammed our D's as liars. I am so disgusted by what she said and how she acted.

Don't get me wrong, I know this is MLC, spew, irrational crazy talk of a mind that is non functional in a normal way. Time will tell how she bakes.

Mirage - I've seen it all about how they feel as well all over this MLC, WAW, WW and whatever else kinda crazy this is. They must go to the same spaceship to get programmed. Too many similarities.


Hope everyone had a great weekend. Luv you all

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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Irish, well done for not letting W's tantrum phase you in sticking to what you know to be truthful and right for your daughters! As others have said, the truth isn't something they like to hear. They like to think that everyone is going to be happy with their new choice of life for us all and that they're not really hurting anybody. We'll all get over it, is what they think.

I'm sorry you didn't get to actually have the meeting, although it sounds like it would have been pointless anyway, given Ws attitude towards everything at the moment. You are so noble to be able to see that this is MLC, spew and irrational crazy talk. Your W is so lucky to have you, if only she realised! I hope she does soon.

Hugs IP


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Hi Inpain

Thanks for dropping in.

I was very lucky to have her as my W and best friend.
I believe we were connected and our girls were an extension of that bond

this W is not who I married or dated.

Do I feel sorry for her . Not any more.

She will have to go throuh this alone. Sadly I can't help her and hold her and tell her it's ok. We will get through this.

So my reflection I made on myself says I need work too.

I am so much more aware of her needs.

I always planned vacations , schools , purchases and finances. My hobbies and activities became hers.

This is wrong . Yes we discussed things and decided together but I always initiated it.

I can't recall ever asking W what she dreamt of doing. I'd go kayaking , she'd join me. I love photography, she'd jon me. Hikes , she'd join me.

What did W initiate . Nothing . What did I ask her to initiate . Nothing . This was wrong.

If W comes back I want to do her activities and dreams . Still share mine but let her take me on an adventure. I'll follow for a change.

If it's not with W. It will be with someone else. I will be a better partner because of this. We are all on a journey of change. Don't fight it

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
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Irish,
An excellent posting. If she returns and you want her back, the marriage will be a brand new one and things will have to be different and remain that way. You can't go back to the old marriage because it has died. Both of you have been on a journey and each of you will have changed quite a bit when you reach the end of the path. Let's hope that she'll be a more mature woman who will come to realize what she's lost and now she has to work very hard to get back.

You, my friend, are doing exceptionally well. Keep up the good work!


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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hi job , thanks for the words of encouragement. I so appreciate them :-) I hope W does her part also of her journey. If she doesn't then I have nothing else to lose with W and so much to gain in life.

D's got home from school today. It seems a classmate ( i'll call Susan)started telling the D's a discussion that her mom and their mom had.

Susan's mom was talking to W. It seems that W was upset and crying about a conversation the D's had with her. Susan told them that W told her mom that the D's were hanging up on W every time she called. That this week they had a conversation and the D's got mad at her and did not respect her. That W calls the house and I don't answer. This is supposed to of happened this week ?!?! funny thing is W only has my cell number. My house number is private and she does not have it.

My D's were so upset about this story. All untrue of course. The last time they spoke to W was a week before Xmas. I had forced them to call her. W went on about so much and full of denial the D's gave up.

D's said that W was still making up stories to make everyone have pity on her. Funny thing is she is approaching people W did not like at all. She never liked Susan's mom or father. Now she uses her for support.

The D's wanted me to write to W telling her to stop making up stories. I told my D's that I won't write her. It's up to them to express their feeling to their mom. So they did.

It's been a few hours. no reply. What is she trying to gain.. support? I'm sure she doesn't tell her friends and support group that she abandoned the D's and its been 7 months since she physically saw them.

Just so frustrating... how she can still twist the truth. Maybe in her mind that call before Xmas happened only last week. Maybe she thought she called and she hung up before it rang.. i don't know. the D's don't need this kind of chatter W is making up.

I messaged Susan, i politely asked her to not share any future discussions she has with W with her daughter. I didn't try to explain my side or the D's, no point. I simply said that the D's don't need this kind of information that their mother is saying.

Susan's mom replied that she understands and said she will not share anymore. I left it at that.

Weekend coming up... a trip to see W's dad. He promised he won't mention W at all to the D's since the last time it upset them so much. Seeing FIL so hurt for what W did me, them and FIL. He is reliving what his XW did to him and it can't be easy for him to witness his own D going through it. The pain in his eyes the last time we visited was unbearable.

Just more of the damage that is MLC

hope everyone is well.

luv Irish


M51
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Irish,

I understand deep down somewhere in your thoughts you try to figure this out. Guess what?.....you won't.

My EXW exactly the same. Lies untop of lies on top of deception. She left our kids(then, adults mostly now) but would spin her story to any one who would listen. My daughter especially would ask why she lies so much.

There is no answer to that. They just do and that's the way it is.

Just keep moving forward. Life on the other side of this once you make that choice 100% to move on with your life makes all the difference.

I at one time would have taken my EXW back. That is not the case today. I have a wonderful life. Great relationships with our kids(adult) and I am a whole lot wiser in setting boundaries in life which allows me to live a more mature, wisdom filled life and I think it makes a huge difference. I would describe it as "living free within yourself". Kinda weird but kinda not.

I respect the way you carry yourself but deep down I think you already know that about yourself.

Mirage

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Irish


I like the way you handled it with SusansMOm..very mature and wise

I do think people KNOW the truth underneath all the stories

Im sorry for the added pain for the girls
I remember one night a debt collector knocked on our door at night asking for XH
My D probably 13 or 14 at that time was in tears…I know how hard it is
but everything passes and I chose to always explain to my kids that XH is in crises and sometimes it happens to be people
It is nt their fault and they can pray for him..it seemed to work for us

hope you have a peaceful weekend!


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Papers served ...

I got served today. Read them and laughed.

Everything we detailed in mediation was there.
She is still even giving me full custody. No surprise.No fight at all. She did claim parental alienation though. Guess she doesn't remember the psychologist that I got to work with her and the D's ( she cancelled). The multiple emails of me asking her to work with me on helping fix that relationship( until I figured it's not my job, she broke their trust she can win it back). Her texts to them saying she doesn't want to live with them, she wasted the last 15 years raising them and the best one...doesn't want to be a mom. Finally her refusal for me to bring the D's to mediation. I've done over and above.

I was disappointed that she had them delivered to the house. The D's were present.
They were quite upset. I reassured them that this changes nothing and it was happening anyway. To them it was just a confirmation that W broke all that we had for an OM whom she met 2 weeks after BD.


Me,I was happy. I just saved some $ to my lawyer doing these documents.
I have to add a few things because W forgot to add the $ she owes me. A couple grand. Also she's trying to claim the money I put into a college fund for my D15. What is that. It's in my D's name and W was beneficiary if anything happened. I changed it to D13 after BD. D13 fund was unmentioned.

W emailed them again wrote the same old text. Love you , miss you, hot chocolate... But added: I know I made huge mistakes and I regret them.
No details or specific apology. Both D's said it at the same time... She made mistakes??? Well what is she doing to fix it? Nothing.
Then they said they were done.

I see my lawyer Monday. I will write him an email detailing what happened the last few months since I saw him before mediation started. This will save the chit chat and added fees for sitting in his office. They do like to talk.

One more step to cutting all ties to W.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
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Irish,
I'm sorry that it's come to this and also sorry that your daughters were there when you were served. Her empathy chip is completely shattered and gave no thought to how this would affect her daughters.

I'm glad that everything that was discussed in mediation is in the papers. Definitely correct, i.e., add in, those items that which are owed to you and/or your daughters. As to her claiming the money that was put in D15's college account...it's not hers. She would have only gotten it if something happened to your D...she nuts if she thought she would get that money and I'm glad you changed the beneficiary. She can't touch it and believe me, she would have taken it all and run w/it.

She really is a lost one and it's going to take a long time for her to recover, if ever.

Continue as you have been doing. I think you've been doing great and you are a great support to your daughters.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi Irish. Just to second Job. You're doing a great job as a dad and your Ds are very lucky to have as their rock. W sounds like a very trouble person and you would have to feel for her

Take care. Rd

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Irish. I just got caught up. I love the way you handled the chatty mom, perfect to go to her instead of wife. It amazes me how some people just don't think....

I am so sorry about being served, especially with the girls there. I hope you find some peace in knowing you are doing an amazing job with your daughters. I know this must be very painful for you all, please keep taking care of you. Sending prayers for your family.


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Irish,

My EXW said the same thing "She was done being a Mom". Our daughter was 11 at the time.

Guess what. She is still not a Mom seven years later. She is a little more present in our daughters life but not much and not our sons lives. There are times they speak the truth and not being a mom anymore was one of those times. Go figure.

It's interesting that when they speak the truth because most everything else is lies but the truth being that they don't want to be a Mom makes you go Huh!

Carry on my friend, you have many adventures left.

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Hi Irish, I'm sorry to hear you received D papers. It's not a nice experience, but it sounds as though you are handling things as well as can be expected.

It's weird thing about your W just deciding she didn't want to be a Mum anymore. It's like - umm, it's a little late for that Hun! Of course, my H was just the opposite, decided he desperately wants to be a Dad again (this time full time.)

As others have said, your W clearly has some regrets, but not enough to do anything useful about them. That's very much a theme on this forum I think. It really takes a lot of pain and fear for the MLCer to start making some useful progress. Not a nice place to be for sure.

Take care my friend and do a) what is best for you and yours, and b) act in a way you'll look back on in years to come and have no regrets.

Xx


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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Originally Posted By: peacetoday

I do think people KNOW the truth underneath all the stories


Hi Peace, yes I believe this as well. It still hurts that she has to create all these stories and continue to do it. She is with OM and she is not seeing her kids. Her choice.

Originally Posted By: job

She really is a lost one and it's going to take a long time for her to recover, if ever.


I agree Job, I read so many sitchs here and I am yet to find one that resembles mine. She was so manic and now set in her ways,,. with the ups and downs of what seems to be regret bit no action to resolve her relationship with the D's. I know no MLC is the same.. but mine is off the chart. Sure there are similarities of the ILYBDLYU and the obsession of OM.. but dropping her kids like that. Night and day for her character.

Originally Posted By: rd500

You're doing a great job as a dad and your Ds are very lucky to have as their rock. W sounds like a very trouble person and you would have to feel for her


Thanks for ringing in RD. yes troubled soul she is. I do feel for her. W or not. I'm doing my best. Today I was doing their nair poolish then brought them out to get some new bras... I offered to stay in the car and give them money.. they said no no.. i went in and waited by the checkout to just pay the bill. The lady behind the cash found it cute that Daddy was doing this. I gave them their privacy.

We decided not to go see FIL. The girls wanted nothing to do with anybody that reminds them of their Mother.


Leigh4
Thanks for dropping in .. you are going through your own changes to your sitch. Your new place.
congrats on that. Thanks for the prayers they are much welcomed.


Originally Posted By: mirage

There are times they speak the truth and not being a mom anymore was one of those times. Go figure.


Mirage
You are so right.. this is the only thing i believe from her. Sad, very sad.
I hope things change for my W and the D's. 7 months is a long time to lose as a parent of young teens. They grow so fast into young adult. I can't imagine 7 years. The kids will live with this forever and will deal with it as they get older. Yes i know the adventure for me has just started. Funny thing, it feels like only a couple of weeks.

Sotto
They say they become the opposite during the MLC fog journey to lalaland. My W was mum of the year for many years.. in her own way( red flags of narcissistic behavior did pop up now and again). She chose to take jobs close by to be available to the D's . now moved miles away. Still says shes there for them on appointment however

Thanks so much for all your support .. you are all amazing people. Being served is good. I need to get this old marriage over and done.

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
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Hi Irish,
I have nothing additional to add but did want to say I also think you are doing exceptionally well with a terrible situation and thank God your daughters have you to count on.

You are an incredible father. Stay strong my friend xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
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BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
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That this too, was a gift."
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Irish - I am so very sorry. I have been thinking about you and your girls a lot.

I cannot even wrap my head around it all.

You are a rock.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
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Irish, on the one hand I feel for you. On the other? I'm happy you no longer have that hanging over your or your daughter's heads.

Quote:
I read so many sitchs here and I am yet to find one that resembles mine.
I suggest you re-read a few in a few months time. I think you'll see that you are not alone - just in a much rarer part of the club. No joy in that, but perhaps some solace that you are not the first nor only to face similar. I personally know several people that have similar stories.

One difference among them is the extent that MLCr's seem to fight for time with the kids. It's odd how they walk away and then fight to make the other parent look like trash. Then again, it's not that out of character, right? Seems human to me at this point and has a lot to do with identity in my opinion.

It takes time to wrap your noggin around it. Don't fight it. It'll come to you in time.

I will say that in the majority of situations I've seen, the exes later can be friendly again. Even good friends, years later. For most of what I've seen, it seems 5-10 years. A few, never. My guess is that you'll not be on friendly terms with your ex although it would at some point be nice to have. Why? Because I don't think she can face what you represent to her.

If it helps: Why the lies? Identity. Imagine if your identity was as the protagonist in your own story? I doubt your subconscious would like that very much and you would be tempted to create a different "truth" right (I really hope Oprah falls down the stairs for her part in that idea of creating your own "truth" and all the damage that does to people. But I digress....)? MLCr's are human too, even if they seem more dragon like sometimes smile

To add to what mirage mentioned - to those who go through life based on feelings, life is a tragedy. Those who go through life based on thought, life is a comedy. I'll add to that - Those who balance the two are able to find contentment. Those that are really good at it? They can find contentment in any situation.

I wish you that contentment, Irish. And your daughters. I think when you feel that contentment, you'll truly see the gift you've been given.

Peace,
AJ


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Irish

Sorry to hear --I was so hurt when I received those papers
I never thought XH would actually file

I was thinking the other day how grateful my xh left without further damaging the kids
They never had to meet his creepy W
they never were subjected to her 18 Confused D
or her drug addict parents
they never had to know who their Dad turned into
It wasn't what I would have wanted but in my situation it was probably for the best
Hang in


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Irish, I'm so very sorry you have been served papers and that your Ds had to witness it. Bless them, they are so very lucky to have such an amazing dad! It shows what a remarkable dad you are to them that they wanted you to go in the store with them when they were buying bras. At least they get to grow up knowing how the men in their lives should treat them, you are doing an incredible job at showing them that. As job said, it is going to take a lot for your W to come back from this, if she ever does. Thank you so much for posting on my thread when you have all this going on. You help me no end and I'm very grateful.


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Originally Posted By: AJM

It's odd how they walk away and then fight to make the other parent look like trash. Then again, it's not that out of character, right? Seems human to me at this point and has a lot to do with identity in my opinion.


Hi AJ , great info and knowledge that you share each time you post. I thank you.

Yes she does seem to need to justify her actions that I'm trash. Then she will email the D's on how I'm a good dad. At least she doesnt trash me to them. Then again they know more of the truth then she does.


Peace - i agree. It's for the best they don't witness this new W.
We try to protect our kids and end up focusing on the pain they feel about missing the person out MLC'r once were. They will learn to accept that she is who she is now. But like AJ said , it's years away if at all. We are lucky in a way Peace. Our kids are stable and safe from witnessing this MLC. You are a strong woman, it shows in your posts and on the ones you post to others. I stand corrected AJ . Peace is a similar sitch. I guess I need to re-read some now that my own mind is clearer.

Inpain- yes they cried then got mad at W. I know it's a step that has to happen. W hasn't felt any consequences yet. Time for her is weeks to our months. She says things happened days ago when it was last September.
Me being a dad is my number 1 job. My W always told them that if they get boyfriends make sure they are like their Daddy. The girls told me this not long ago after W said the last 10 years were fake.
You are very welcome for my input, I hope I help. I really feel your pain. Wish I could take it from you for one day so you could take a break and find you.


Girls got an email . I counted the ones they got since W left in August last year. A grand total of 7 including this one. Then again there was one the D15 initiated when's she asked for her WII and tablet back. W said they were broken in the move.

Today's email was more of the same. Except she contradicted herself.
She says to othes that i Prevent her from seeing them. In the email she says I know daddy wants me to see you and isn't preventing you from seeing me. Then She goes on saying she made this mess. She hopes one day they will forget all this and want to see her.

Forget? Is she mad. Oh I forget , yes she is. They can't forgive by forgetting. I did that 10 years ago. Forgetting what she did. I can't forget this time. She hopefully will mature and work on the forgive part. Lots of work for her but I have faith one day she'll do it.

Warm weather here. Skiing and skating is closed for a while. So planning a road trip this weekend with the girls to visit some friends we usually only see in the summer .

Irish


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Hi
I know the answer to this riddle already but I need to ask it anyway and to get it off my chest and scream HOW, WHY then HOW again. I am banging my head against the wall on this one.

How could a mother tell people that her daughters are writing her emails of hatred and calling her names? When in fact they are not. They have replied to less than half of her 6 emails to them.

She has done too much damage and she is past the point of no return. I am really starting to believe this is the new W and this is who she is. I should be saying STBXW. The W i knew would never make up stories about her girls. Attack me OK but the D's that is not going to happen.

Worse thing is I had to ask the D's about it. They're faces dropped. Insulted that their mom is saying that about them.
My lawyer is in shock a mother would do and say this. Probably to gain nothing more than a little relieve from her own guilt.

You may be asking why i shared this information about their mom to my D's. Well the inquiry request came from the lawyers. I usually protect my D's on what their mom is doing or saying.

just venting..


Irish


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Irish, I'm a silent follower. I have nothing but admiration for your strength and your parenting.

You are asking how their mother can do what she is doing. I might be able to give you some insight to this. My mother had a very long psyche history. She was mentally ill. We never had a good "normal". Mother daughter relationship, she was physically there, yet completely absent. My dad was the one there for me. He left my mom when I was 17. ( still my rock and support, he never " left" me). My mom fell apart went back to drugs, ect. It was bad. She was quite awful to me at times, blaming me for things, resenting me because my dad still loved me, expecting me, as a 19 year old to support and help her. She would tell me she hated me , not talk to me, threaten suicide ( which she eventually succeeded in).

My point is, your W has sunk so far down into a depression she has alienated anything that means anything to her. She is mentally ill. A mother who would do whAt she is doing can only be very very mentally ill.

It is not an excuse. But she just isn't in her right mind. And there really is nothing you or your daughters can do to pull her out of that hole. Lord knows I tried with my mom. My dad tried for the whole marriage. She's going to have to want to help herself.

Even after all the awful stuff, I knew my mom loved me. The best she knew how. I always reminded myself she was sick. She had a real illness which is very difficult to treat.

Hang in there. You are doing such an amazing job, and your daughters will thrive because of it, I promise you that.

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Originally Posted By: Ginger1


Even after all the awful stuff, I knew my mom loved me. The best she knew how. I always reminded myself she was sick.


Hi Ginger, thank you so much for your message and encouragement. I am so so sorry for your mom.

There is something about that phrase you wrote that you had to keep reminding yourself that she was not well. I read it while making supper. When those words entered my thoughts I thought of what D15 always does.. she reminds herself of the exact same thing . Even writing this now to you my eyes fill with water.

She even reminds me of this. I tend to forget and accept W and that is who she is now. Your words sent a chill down my spine and i cried.

I pray my D's get their mother back and they can have a healthy relationship. I know its all up to W.

now to go hug my D's

x
Irish


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Irish

It may be a touch of mental illness, mlc or addiction
or a little of each
Maybe we never really know
I also think some people follow the script of their parents
MY XH followed his dads choices even though they never had a relationship
I hope my son can break the chain
Alanon is a great program where people discuss living/coping with the effects of alcohol with the people we love
usually meetings are everywhere and phone meetings as well
It is hard for us to understand why the MLCer or addicted person would do crazy things but if a person is under the effects of drugs and alcohol, they do not live in reality..they live in denial
we continue to detach and let go
we never know or can control another persons behavior and choices


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Hi Peace
I think you are right.
Originally Posted By: peacetoday

I also think some people follow the script of their parents


I will not let my girls follow their moms path that's for sure. I always said to W she reminded me of her mother. She hated that. It was small pockets that would shine through. The cold and narcissist way about her mother that I saw in my W. It would last 10 min or an hour.. but it was there. Slowly creeping out to take over the loving , caring W that I knew.

So I think I have to accept that W is no more. W had so many issues with her Mom. Cried so many times. Now W is her.
I've said it a few times that I would never date someone like her mother. I can't even call her MIL any more because of what she did to my girls. A grandmother she is not. Both girls will have nothing to do with W's mother.

This week every emotion was coming out of the D's. Anger and hurt to sadness and pain. We talked a lot about the past 7 months and for some reason last night it was so emotional for them. I did not cry or say anything. I let them talk. They were on the couch glued to each other. They were crying a little but not huge tears. More emotional tears of sadness and maybe acceptance.

They have such a view of this that if anyone heard them on the details they have on what W did, they would be in shock. No bad words or name calling, no blaming her either. Just the facts of what she did to them and me. The recall more than I do. They brought up the police a lot on how W tried to push me to snap at her while she was taping every conversation we had back then. Hoping I'd yell at her and she'd call the police and claim spousal abuse or whatever she had as a scheme back then to get me out of the house. I did remain calm. They also talked about how when i was out of the house in the beginning W use to get annoyed if the D's came upstairs. They slept together when I was away. This was only one week because right after all her outburst and drinking and offering D15 who was 14 at the time some pot if she wanted it the girls never left my side. They were afraid of W. When W finally left the house in August the D's would sleep in the upstairs living area with mattresses on the floor. They only started sleeping separately in their own rooms in late September.

I let them vent and even threw in a joke or 2 to lighten the mood. we finished by talking about the stories I use to make up about a boys adventures that went wrong. I did this every night when they were 6 and 8yrs old and stopped when they were about 10 and 12. D13 wants me to start again. :-) I will make one up next week and this one a special one, I'll include 2 young girls 6 and 8yrs old based on my D's.

I went to bed and I cried. They are dealing with this and I can see they will be affected by it for the rest of their lives. I have either forgotten or blocked out some of W's actions 7 months ago. They recall it all and it seems they have a lot more inside to tell. I am going to look into personal therapy for them. The last time the D's saw a therapist they said that the girls were fine. They are expressing their emotions openly. They are doing well in school, sleeping and eating. They are also not hurting themselves or taking it out in an aggressive way on others. I'm still worried for them.

Today the D's woke up happy. I told them they could each have a friend sleep over.

So tonight I hear them laughing up a storm downstairs. Watching movies and YouTube. I ordered in some food and just finished preparing a chocolate fondue for dessert. I guess the venting last night did well because they are back to their cheery selves. Being kids and enjoying life. That's is the most important thing for me right now.. is that they remain kids. They have plenty of time when they get older to worry about the dark side of life.

Tomorrow i'll take them on a safari drive through a state park. Its were the animals roam free (well in a gated section 2 hours north of the city).
Deer, moose, antelope, wolves, black bears, buffalo etc etc etc.. All local to this area or northern parts of the country. We use to go their when they were a lot younger. They are excited to go.


Irish


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Irish, you mentioned that your W had a narcissistic mother. I just recently started reading about daughters of narcissistic mothers. I think my mother has a lot of trends. And I adopted some specific behaviors from growing up with this kind of mother. When I look back now, I think I behaved like a narcissist myself sometimes. I didn’t give my son the emotional support he needed because I was too concentrated on my own feelings and on my problems. I also didn’t know what it would be like to be there for your child emotionally. I came a long way during these last few years. I realize now that I do not have narcissistic tendencies, and my certain behavior was a product of growing up with my mother.

And even then, I cannot not imagine abandoning my son and then blaming him for not wanting to communicate with me. I do hope that your W will work through her childhood issues and will be able to repair her relationship with her daughters.

I am so happy to hear that the therapist said that your Ds are fine. Not surprising, as they have a very strong support in you. Yes, they will get angry and sad some times, but it seems like they can process these feelings in a healthy way and still enjoy their lives and be the kids.

Have fun at the safari!


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HI irish

Im so glad the girls are ok
Venting is very helpful and being validated
I remember talking many hours to my D about her pain
today she is amazing…
Im not sure what her M may look like but she is a confident young woman
MY son never spoke too much about it
he was 5..I don't think he remembers so much about XH
But I still believe that if a child has one sincere and caring adult whether mother, father or relative..it is enough
Wishing you the best!


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Irish, you are such an awesome dad!!! Every time I read about your talks and activities with your Ds it makes me cry. I'm so sorry they are hurting so much. Thank goodness they have you as their rock through all of this. They are so young and shouldn't have to be dealing with this kind of thing, bless them.

It is interesting what you say about your W having turned into her mum. I have been thinking the same about my H just lately, how he has 'reverted to type'. His parents have both been very cold and standoffish as parents and grandparents. They don't even visit our children on their birthdays and Christmas. Just not interested and have always cared more about their friends and drinking than their children and family. My H always hated how they were, yet now it seems he is doing exactly the same.

Hope you enjoy the safari drive, it sounds incredible! We have nothing like that here. Have fun!


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Hi Irish, Just keep encouraging your daughters to talk about their feelings etc. And more than likely they will be fine. And what a great dad they have got in you!

I hope the things you have blocked out for now, you will someday be able to process & internalize the events in there true light.

And not like me (when I was very young) or my youngest D. Her Sitting on our sofa (Mon 26th Jan 04 when she came home from school) "It's not right, it's not right, I'm only 13" My youngest can't remember saying this. And for about a period of about 18 months or so from early summer 05 till spring 07. I had a very testing time with her to say the least. But she came thru it with just a few scars, and her & her sister's can always talk to me about anything.

So Keep on Keeping on.

GOD Bless You & Your Girls

Love

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Irish,

Just catching up with your life. I am so sorry about the papers and your W's irrational behavior. Your daughters seem to be truly wise and secure in their relationship with you. This is a great foundation for dealing with the crazy. It isn't about you being a perfect parent but you are truly a "present" parent and that is priceless. Your willingness to be emotionally and physically present speaks volumes about your character and your love for your family.

As for a parent saying "they are done" I can tell you that is exactly what happened to my H. It will two years in June since he moved to another state and my girls haven't heard his voice in a year. H said their relationship was up to them yet he has yet to try to empathize or reach out. It is as if the man who coached their basketball team and went to every recital has disappeared. The only solace for me is some weird validation that if it were our marriage H would still be a father. The fact that he discarded all of us so completely is proof something is very broken inside of him.

Even though your W is not well you can't fix her. Sometimes the best thing you can do is honor your love for her by honoring your daughter's... Continue to care for them in the way your wife would have wanted before she lost herself. Try to focus on that and you will show your daughters what love really looks like.

Be good to yourself Irish. Hang in there.


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Originally Posted By: BrightFuture
I do hope that your W will work through her childhood issues and will be able to repair her relationship with her daughters.


Hi Bright :-)
yes I too wish for this. I believe right now this is 90% of my pain. The girls losing their mom. The damage STBXW is doing to the girls. They are strong but this will follow them for a long time into their adulthood.
I don't like the thought that my D's will be telling future friends and relationships that magic phrase I hear some adults say.. " Oh... my mom? well I don't really see her. We are not close." It's sad.


Originally Posted By: peacetoday
But I still believe that if a child has one sincere and caring adult whether mother, father or relative..it is enough


Hi Peace :-) I agree. My STBXW had none. I'm sure MIL and FIL at the time did their best under the circumstances. Clearly it affected my STBXW deep down and she has to deal with it by herself today. Maybe her avoiding and abandoning the D's is her wayof protecting them from her chaos. I hope that is the reason, because if it's just to have fun, party and freedom. STBXW will have no place in my life as a friend and will have no sympathy for her choices.

Originally Posted By: Inpain
His parents have both been very cold and standoffish as parents and grandparents. They don't even visit our children on their birthdays and Christmas. Just not interested and have always cared more about their friends and drinking than their children and family. My H always hated how they were, yet now it seems he is doing exactly the same.


Hi Inpain :-)
My STBXW said the same. She had no warmth from her mom. She knew the kids were uncomfortable with her family. STBXW always said she felt more family on my side. Since BD the D's grandmother has abandoned them as well. Ever since she told the D's they were liars about what their mom did when they called her crying and scared. Grandmother never called them back, no email, no xmas card, no birthday card on D13's birthday. I mean STBXW has a reason, she was abducted by aliens ... but MIL wow. She just erased them completely. I even messaged MIL after a hip operation she had on Facebook. Didn't mention STBXW or the D's. Just wished her a good recovery. No reply of course. MIL is probably waiting for the D;s to reach our to her because they will miss her so much. Not. Sad for her but she's the adult. And I could one day forgive STBXW if she wakes up. MIL she will never have my forgiveness.

Originally Posted By: Delboy
I hope the things you have blocked out for now, you will someday be able to process & internalize the events in there true light.


Hi Delboy :-) I catch up and read some of your posts now and again on other posts. I want you to know that I draw strength from them. Don't worry i wont empty the tank.. I'll leave some for others in need of it

Yes about the things I blocked out. It is more the things I forgot because they were so unreal. I could never accept STBXW would do what she did and that is what I have a hard time to register. I'm sure if I read my first posts when it was fresh I would still say that it is impossible that STBXW did such things to me and my D's. These are all reminders that STBXW is not who I married and is not the same mother of my D's. Abduction, demonic possession, Manic, sick, MLC, what ever... It's not her.

Originally Posted By: 123Gwen
Even though your W is not well you can't fix her. Sometimes the best thing you can do is honor your love for her by honoring your daughter's... Continue to care for them in the way your wife would have wanted before she lost herself. Try to focus on that and you will show your daughters what love really looks like.


Hi Gwen :-)
well said. Yes i am continuing to love them and raise them as if STBXW was still here. I am not over spoiling them and showering them with additional love. We are an active family even before all this circus started. Zip lining, camping , museums, amusement parks, the beach, BBQ'S, trips, etc etc. Those things i will still do with them as long as they want to hang out with me lol. Also add new activities for new memories. My STBXW never planned any of this anyway so the D's now I'm not over doing it.

Originally Posted By: 123Gwen
H said their relationship was up to them yet he has yet to try to empathize or reach out

My STBXW says the same. Said that the D's need to respect her and reach out to her when they are ready. She is so out in left field on this. It will be 8 months this March. If it was me i'd of waited a week at most they did my utmost to get my D's in my life but I"m rational and caring , with empathy and feeling about what the D's are going through.


--------------------

I had to get something off my chest. It was eating at me ever since my lawyer asked me if the D's emailed STBXW bad messages and name calling to her. I talked about it here.. i talked to 2 of my supportive friends. It was still burning inside. So i message STBXW.

I wrote:
I cant understand that you would lie about what the D's write to you. You say you wrote 200 emails to them over the past 7 months. Where are they? please send them to me. Also the email replies you did get from them calling you every name in the book I would like to see those too.

Go ahead and put me under the bus and tell your new friends that i am the worst person on the planet and the cause of all your pain. I don't care. But to say that the reason you don't see or want the girls is because they disrespect you and call you names.. if unforgivable.

Please stop lying about the girls. It hurts them more than you can ever imagine. They have been hurt enough.
thanks Irish.

I didn't get a reply and I didn't want one. Did it have any effect on her. Who knows. I needed to pass that on to her. Personally. Not through the lawyer. It made me feel better and i had a great weekend because it was off my chest.


Hugs
Irish


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Hi Irish,

I think you worded your message to STBXW beautifully.

I was so sad to read about MIL's treatment of your girls. Such an awful thing to do to your own grandchildren! The more I read on these forums the more I sit in disbelief at the way some people treat others.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Thank goodness your girls have you. You're doing a great job with them!


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Irish,


You voiced the truth to W…and hopefully she can hear you
to avoid any more pain for the girls
I think they live in a thick fog of denial, but you never know when something may sink in..I do not think they like the truth..they would prefer sugar coating their behavior and choices…I personally think being authentic is better.

I was not very authentic with my xh..I played along for the first 2 years..
we became friendly but it was all fake and on his terms and about him
still in the end,,,he left to find himself,,not sure if he did
and as I look back his actual leaving was for the best-
and
I found myself


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Originally Posted By: inpain
I was so sad to read about MIL's treatment of your girls. Such an awful thing to do to your own grandchildren! The more I read on these forums the more I sit in disbelief at the way some people treat others.


Hi Inpain, thanks for the support on my sitch. I agree with you 100%. How can people treat others like this for their own selfish needs. I know my STBXW is not well and exMIL caused it with her own MLC. It's clear exMIL needs as much help with her own demons as does my STBXW. same DNA same pattern.

Originally Posted By: peacetoday
I was not very authentic with my xh..I played along for the first 2 years..
we became friendly but it was all fake and on his terms and about him
still in the end,,,he left to find himself,,not sure if he did
and as I look back his actual leaving was for the best-
and
I found myself


Hi Peace, I am finding myself too. I truly believe my STBXW`s MLC caused me to lose myself. It all started a year or more ago. I was lost. Stopped living my life. In a fog like zombie state. Now I see so many things so clearly about myself and my needs. My D`s are the same. We talk each night about our day and as time goes on there is no mention of STBXW. We are detached. It`s been only 7.5 months and I think we hit a low spot and miss her only when she does something to upset us. Not seeing her is so much healthier on us all. She needs to find herself. We know who we are.

---------------------------

It`s valentines day here tomorrow. I did celebrate it with STBXW each year and it was wonderful. A walk in the park, dinner for 2, wine and chocolate, either a visit to the spa or a weekend getaway.

I always thought of Valentines day as a commercial holiday more than a lovers day anyway. My future relationship it will be valentines day every day, just as it was with my STBXW. I NEVER needed a hallmark card to tell someone I love them. I`d send flowers to STBXW just to say hi, I love you and thinking of you.

Is it going to hurt tomorrow waking up alone. Not one bit. Because STBXW right now isn`t the person I`d want to wake up to anyway. I`ll make a huge pancake breakfast with the D`s and make it a netflix day.

Irish


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Irish


Hope you and the girls have fun today!


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I am with you Irish. It really is a hallmark holiday, puts so much pressure on people, and I am not just saying that because I am alone. However, I like to use the day as a reminder to let the people you love know it with a big hug or a special treat smile

Enjoy the day with your girls, it sounds like a wonderful plan!


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Your plan for Valentine's Day sounded wonderful Irish! I hope you and your girls enjoyed your pancake breakfast and Netflix day. I'm afraid I let myself get maudlin about it. H and I would always go out for a romantic meal on Valentine's Day and all I could think about was last year's and how lovely it was as I sat alone.

Did you watch anything good on Netflix? We love to snuggle up and spend the day watching films too.

Hugs, IP


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Peace. Mleigh and Inpain, thanks for the well wishes.

it was actually a great valentines. Made heart shaped pancakes and we spent the day watching the Xfiles since it was the coldest day of the year outside. Oh the joy of Canada. Why didnt my grandparents move to a warmer climat.

The D's love the Xfiles we are on season 2. I wont watch the new episodes until they are caught up.

So it was Xfiles, the fireplace lit , pancakes and snack food all day. Ordered in a pizza at supper. No talk about STBXW.

I know the old her would of loved to be there. She was always the one to suggest a marathon day.

I had a hard night last night. Since my STBXW is trashing my D's reputation about them mistreating her and zero respect. My lawyer asked me to put together my notes of what STBXW did to them since July 2015. I cried so much reading these notes.

I forgot half of what she did and said. The way she wrote me emails and texts. All the dots ..... and exclamation marks!!!!! then add in all the I , me and myself and I, and I and me's. It is very angry and all too selfish with zero empathy. So I was quite down because I revisited it all . It also made me thank God we are not witness to this anymore because she is a vanisher.

Lawyer wants to send STBXW a letter refraining her from bad mouthing the girls. Certain parents she talks to to justify herself not being a terrible mom seem to talk to their kids.. then the kids at school make a joke about it to my D's . Its quite upsetting. Happened again on Monday. My youngest did not want to go to school the following day.

Sad sending the mother of my children a letter from a lawyer telling her to stop bad mouthing her own children. I'll do it because protecting my D's is my priority as a father.

hope everyone's week is going better than mine

Cheers
Irish


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wow Irish

I am so sorry your w continue to talk a both the girls
I believe she is just trying to ease her own pain and guilt
In her MLC, she does not realize it is getting back to D
or maybe she thinks that if enough mothers say something it will encourage them to see their wrong ways and apologize
Just bazaar
sorry for your pain
Maybe the L letter will have a positive effect
I personally feel for us the XH as a vanisher was a good thing
While he was still here the kids did have extra pain
the pain of watching him leave after a visit
I remember one night he rejected our 5 year old son because tour business was going under and we all had a pay reduction
they just don't have a clue and yes me I me I me..thats MLC and addiction


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irish, i'm so sorry you had to take the step of a lawyers letter, and re-live all the pain of the past several months. your valentines day sounds wonderful!
you are grieving and that is no only ok, it is healthy. doesn't feel good, but it is healthy.

sending you hugs and support xoxoxo


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Irish, I’m so sorry you had to go through some painful memories to write that letter to your lawyer. I’m just curious, are there any legal consequences for you W for doing this to your Ds. If this is the case, I’m all for it! Anything that could stop your W from doing more damage to your Ds. She has to learn the hard way. I just still cannot comprehend that she can be so thoughtless and selfish. But, I guess it is part of MLC.

Sending you and your D’s lots of hugs and good vibes. Thank you a for stopping by to support me too.


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So happy to hear you had a nice Valentine's!

Sounds like you are doing the right thing with the lawyer letter. Sounds to me like she thinks this behavior will get a reaction, like her daughter's to run to her with I'm sorry. It just sounds so much like my own mom's behavior -- to lash out for attention.

I hope your girls see it for what it is, keep talking them through it. I hope your W learns to stop it.


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So I am working on more than a letter now. I contacted my internet provider to get the records of all emails between myself, the girls and my STBXW. No negative, mean, vulgar or abusive emails were ever sent. I never doubted my D's.

I am holding off because I received another letter from her lawyer. Claiming she left the house with only her personal belongings and nothing else. No furniture.

Man did I laugh. I slept on a Coleman mattress for 3 months because I furnished my D's rooms and kitchen before thinking of my own comfort. My clothes were in boxes and bags on the floor.

I have a detailed list of what she took she even signed off on it. How can she not remember what she took. She did lose it all when she bailed out on her apartment and left all her furniture there so I figure she is right . She only has her personal belongings now. But that's her problem. Now claiming I have a financial advantage of so many thousand of dollars over her.

Still no wanting to see the D's or work on a relationship. Its still all about money.

W was one that money had no meaning. It was not important. Material things were meaningless to her. She would of lived in a shack by the lake. No electricity or electronics. So far now from that thinking.

I continue my path on guiding the D's to have happy, non anger lives without their mom. My STBXW will have her own work to do to fix this mess she created. I wish her luck.


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Yes exactly

They leave to live a dream that probably will never materialize
the happiness they seek is not found from abandoning their existing responsibilities, and probably just the opposite will happen in the end.


From every person I meet who has strained their R with their Kids, I hear deep regret

Many of them seem to leave good environments, not really thinking through the losses that may be endured..

I have no idea what my XH financial status is at present
I know he has a wife 14 years younger than him, and she has a D who has many tattoos and smokes and is about our D age.I know he left behind a business and a home we furnished and decorated
he left with a suitcase full of clothes and left much of his clothes and shoes still in the closet(now given away)

makes little sense
But I do wish him the best and hope he found what he left to find-
I think I found what I needed through the process and looking back I am grateful he is gone-


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Just keep doing what you are doing. You are an extraordinary man and father. And that will make all the difference in your D's lives.

It's hard not to try to figure out how someone could do something like this. How they can lie and alienate their own family. But you will not get an answer, so try to keep those thoughts to a minimum.

Just keep being awesome.

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Good job documenting everything. Keep it up.

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I am so impressed that you have a detailed list that she signed off on. WELL DONE!
As for the mess, yep - it's her party and she can clean up the mess she made. Just keep being the awesome man and dad you are to your girls. They are so very lucky to have you.

xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Any updates IM







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Hi One

I was in Atlanta for a could days working on a business deal. I love the south. Great people and food. I always get a kick out of them telling me I'm the one with the accent. The charm of the people there is amazing.

My daughters spent some time with my parents and took care of the dogs. Love my girls. I missed them so so much. It made me think of STBXW not seeing them for 8 months now.

No news from STBXW or her lawyer after I sent out the details of her relationship with the girls through all this. I stopped at 40 points. it was from the neglect when she lived here to her bad mouthing them 2 weeks ago. And the verbal abuse in between.

I left out things she did to me. but i included things i did to help her regain the girls. psychologist , youth center help etc.

It's funny I thought I would get a reply but then again I didn't expect one as well. I'm at the point where I don't care.

I am welcoming the divorce now. It's a step that must happen for me. If it shakes her cage then great. STBXW has a long road to travel if she wants back into her family's life.

It may seem like I am over my STBXW, I'm not. I do have memories and flash backs of amazing times with her. In the end I will always have those with me. She can't take those away ever. Even if she tells me that the past 10 years was fake. I miss her and the next person I get in my life will have major shoes to fill. I won't go for anything less.

I hope everyone is well. Keep posting your sitchs, they do help so many (me included). They especially help the unknown lurkers that are hear reading them because they are trying to understand their own H or W who have joined the MLC club. Best help I got was joining this forum and connecting with some amazing people.


Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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I love the south to, i.e., Atlanta. It's a great place to visit and the people are very friendly. Spring is a beautiful time down there. I do hope you get to go back again soon and can enjoy the Atlanta spring.

I'm glad your girls spent some time w/your parents and were able to care for the dogs. They were well taken care of and I'm sure spoiled just a wee bit while you were gone.

As for the info you sent about your STBXW and her interactions w/the girls, it may take some time for her lawyer to track her down and, of course, she'll deny most of what you sent them...but you've got the proof, i.e., texts and emails, etc. She'll feel pinned to the wall, but that's okay, because she's going to have to eventually realize that her actions have consequences. I'm so sorry that she's been MIA w/the girls. Gosh, she can't get back that time she's not been there w/them.

I do understand how you feel about the divorce and yes, it's a step that you need to finalize things and continue moving forward w/your life. We all had some great times w/our spouses, but they sure do make it tough for us to remember them when they are acting out.

Take care of yourself and those beautiful girls.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Irish, I have to say, I am so impressed that with everything going on, you are able to remember the good times with your W. That struck me, and is really something I needed to hear right now, because I am buried in bad memories right now of H and his parents, and I can literally feel the effect it has on me. Your comment reminds me to refocus, so thank you for that.

I am glad you had a nice trip and break away. I am sure your girls missed you just as much! You continue to be an inspiration, of unconditional love and strength.

Hope you have a nice weekend.


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
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IrishM, I am one of those "lurkers" that your posts have helped.

Your attitude about your situation and the calmness that can be sensed in this latest post is inspirational. I'm at the point where I have been questioning every good memory I had of my relationship. During one of my early R talks with my H, he said that any good memory I could bring up of our marriage, he could bring up something bad that happened during it. For some reason. lately, that statement has held a lot of power over me. I think after your post, I will find that strength to let his words go. We did have some amazing times, too.

Thank you for taking the time to post your story as it unfolds.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

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Originally Posted By: job

I do understand how you feel about the divorce and yes, it's a step that you need to finalize things and continue moving forward w/your life. We all had some great times w/our spouses, but they sure do make it tough for us to remember them when they are acting out.


Hey Job, always good to hear from you.
Yes its a step forward. For her as well. She wants this so bad now and running is her thing. Our marriage needs to end.

My parents do spoil the girls. More with love than anything else. Also they listen to my D`s when they speak. They are the ultimate grandparents.

Originally Posted By: mleigh4
you are able to remember the good times with your W. That struck me, and is really something I needed to hear right now, because I am buried in bad memories right now of H and his parents, and I can literally feel the effect it has on me. Your comment reminds me to refocus, so thank you for that.


Hi Mleigh (((hugs)))
I am glad you can refocus, it is so important not to dwell on what is going on. Memories are filled with love. I can honestly smile at some of the memories that dance in my head. I focus on continuing those with my D`s. The only sadness I carry now is STBXW is missing out. I remind myself constantly that she is not well. NC helps trust me. I don`t see what she is doing and I don`t care to.

I had an amazing weekend thanks. This weekend I`m bringing the girls indoor wall climbing. I got a GoPro camera and I hope to capture some great moments.

Originally Posted By: ciluzen
IrishM, I am one of those "lurkers" that your posts have helped.

Your attitude about your situation and the calmness that can be sensed in this latest post is inspirational. I'm at the point where I have been questioning every good memory I had of my relationship.


Hi Ciluzen, It`s nice to meat a lurker :-) thanks for your nice comments.

I am truly sorry you are here. I am glad however you found this forum. will read up on your situation and help if i can . There are so many here and so many different situations. All have the same base though. You have to stop questioning your marriage.

Your Husband could of been married to anyone and it would of still happened. You did nothing wrong. He is broken not you. They tend to pull out the bad moments and usually they add to them, exaggerate and blow it up so big that we don`t even recognize that event. He`s justifying his reasons the marriage isn`t working.

You were married 25yrs. Yes I assure you that you did have amazing times. Your D`s are proof of that. Show them what a strong woman you are and hopefully your H realizes HIS mistake.



So of course no news from my STBXW or her lawyer. I sent in my counter offer and I am hoping she accepts it so we can spare spending any more money with lawyers. Funny thing is we are close to the same agreement as we had at mediation. This weekend its wall climbing .. I`ve done it but I want to initiate the D`s to it. Amazing work out.


take care everyone.

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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Irish, I'm always amazed at your posts. I don't come by often, but it's nice to see the posts.

I kind of chuckled at the being close to an agreement. I snorted a little when you mentioned it was almost the same agreement as at mediation. Why did I chuckle? Because that's how it went for me as well. In my state, it requires a year of sep before you can file. She took it to the day and signed everything I had long ago agreed to. I took the approach of "if you want it, you do it" and she wrote the agreement before not wanting to sign it smile I recall laughing about it one day because it was all so ridiculous on balance. I also made sure I was only interested in the stuff around the kids. The rest was really unimportant to me. So I made a few minor adjustments as it was part of the "game" of back and forth. In the end, her lawyer was trying to help me! Go figure.

All that to say, don't expect rational behavior or integrity (do what you say) from her. No expectations. If you step back a little, you may see where the agreement will end up long before you get there. It's kind of predictable when there's no rational thought on one end. And when you let go of expectations of rational thought, it takes the pressure off of you. Patience. Slow and steady patience is about all you'll do that will be effective as long as you have zero expectations.

Keep up the good work and enjoying the time with your daughters. Try not to feel sad for very long at your ex's choices. Hope that she gets herself better and you can make different choices if that happens. It will be a long time if it happens, so don't miss out on the present feeling sad for very long. It's ok to enjoy the gifts and people you have right now instead.

Peace,

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Irish, just stopping by to say hi. I know what you are talking about when you mention the good memories with your W. I was looking at the old photos (before the BD) yesterday, and what I saw was a happy family. It is just not possible to believe that H was unhappy for a number of years by looking at these photos. And, I like you, appreciate what we had back then. I was trying to suppress these memories for a while, because it was too painful. I think I’m in a better place right now. This is such a great feeling to me, to be able to look back and realize that we did have a good life together.

As always, I’m very impressed with your ability to handle the situation and be a great support for your Ds. I do wish the best for you and your D’s.


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Hi Irish, it sounds like you are in a healthy place if you are reaching the point where you can look back fondly at the good parts of the M. For me (and for a good while) it was just too painful to think about any of that as I had lost it all. But I find I can do that more recently, which is good.

Glad to hear you and your Ds are doing well. It sounds as though you have accepted D will happen (D is just around the corner in my sitch.) I think some sitches really have to go all the way and who knows if or when someone's spouse may begin to wake up and smell the coffee? I figure that could well happen for any of us at some point - but there is plenty of living to be done in the meantime, and it sounds as though you are doing just that.

Take care my friend & have a great weekend with those lovely daughters xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Originally Posted By: AJM
Try not to feel sad for very long at your ex's choices. Hope that she gets herself better and you can make different choices if that happens. It will be a long time if it happens, so don't miss out on the present feeling sad for very long. It's ok to enjoy the gifts and people you have right now instead.


Hey AJ
you are 100% right. I need to work on this though. I feel like its my last hurdle to my own finish line. Seeing the pain my D's have and when they bring up STBXW its surrounded by negative comments by them. I have to remind them constantly that she was a good mom and she is going through her own issue that is her own.

Originally Posted By: BrightFuture
I think I’m in a better place right now. This is such a great feeling to me, to be able to look back and realize that we did have a good life together.


Hi Bright :-)

So glad you see this too. You did have a good life. He will see it too one day, I hope. What he does with it when that happens is all up to him. You also have choices. Use that reminder of what you had to remind yourself that you are great and loving. You are worth any mans love. The question is , is he worth yours?
(((hugs)))


Originally Posted By: Sotto
It sounds as though you have accepted D will happen (D is just around the corner in my sitch.) I think some sitches really have to go all the way and who knows if or when someone's spouse may begin to wake up and smell the coffee? I figure that could well happen for any of us at some point - but there is plenty of living to be done in the meantime, and it sounds as though you are doing just that.


Hi Sotto :-)

yes its what they want the most. To have that freedom and to solve their pain and anguish. I am sorry you are going through this but its happening. Who knows before the final signature happens they might wake up. Is it all going to magically repair what they did? I don't think so. This is why I chose my life from now on. The one with my STBXW is gone. It needs to end 100% and that is divorce. The future relationship I have will be what I want with a partner that feels and shares our dreams. Respects my D's and shares her feelings. I might prepare a questioner to steer away from potential MLC'r. I am not doing this again.lol

-------------------------------------

So no response from STBXW on my letter to her lawyer on her relationship with our Daughters that I sent 2 weeks ago. Also no response to my counter offer on her divorce requests either. I pretty much closed the door on all her requests and backed them up with emails, texts and financial records. My Lawyer was impressed and wondered why I needed him.

As you know I'm Irish. lol

I had one of the best Saint-Patrick days (week) celebrations in a long long time. Lots of activities this weekend with my girls. A second parade and some family diners. I so wish they would have continued Irish dancing. They quit a few years back due to the competitiveness. Some of the other parents were worse than hockey or baseball dads that put so much pressure on the kids to win. I loved that they enjoyed it, winning or not.

i leave you with an Irish prayer

MAY GOD GIVE YOU...
FOR EVERY STORM, A RAINBOW,
FOR EVERY TEAR, A SMILE,
FOR EVERY CARE, A PROMISE,
AND A BLESSING IN EACH TRIAL.
FOR EVERY PROBLEM LIFE SENDS,
A FAITHFUL FRIEND TO SHARE,
FOR EVERY SIGH, A SWEET SONG,
AND AN ANSWER FOR EACH PRAYER.


Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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The Irish prayer is lovely, IM. My grandfathers and one grandmother were Irish. My H still loved my "Irish eyes" last year (or so he said last anniversary...on St Patrick's Day!). I'm glad you got to celebrate with loved one's all week. That must have been wonderful!


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

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Irish - A beautiful prayer. I definitely needed to read that today. Thanks for posting. I am so glad you had fun with your family and friends. Life is in the details and best enjoyed in the present. So glad you are enjoying this time with your girls.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
― Maya Angelou



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I second what Gwen posted. The Irish Prayer is beautiful and it does lift you up in many ways. I, too, am glad that you had fun w/your family and friends. Spend all the time you have available w/your girls for they grow up so fast. The memories that you make w/them will last a lifetime.

BTW, it's time to start a new thread.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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