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Sotto #2645166 01/20/16 02:37 PM
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I also think taking a stand is good
It takes a real strong person to do that approach-- there is also a book called ...
never read it but I think the approach is different from DB
more about setting limits with the WAS
Funny how your W would think its OK to have A just because she said she wants D
when MY XH was having affair with OW (Now Wife)
I must have been in denial and he would lie and I believed it
He came home at all hours --still I wasn't sure
MLC is tough and sometimes no approach really works
but as Sotto said, taking care of yourself is what is most important
Chances are she will not see things too clearly about OM at this time
and she may have to hit a bottom
she is looking to fix herself from the outside in and it just never can be done that way

Last edited by Cristy; 02/09/16 11:23 AM. Reason: per forum agreement, do not mention other books/authors

married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
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Originally Posted By: Sotto

The area to watch out for is in the latter part of your post - where you told her to think about various things - what kind of person is OM, get some help from friends, find yourself a therapist. My guess is, she will not welcome that kind of advice from you and may see it as control. Fact is, she will likely to come to see the 'real' OM - but that will happen on her timescale and not yours. You trying to push things along may well slow them down.

Good for you in taking a stand. How do you plan to follow through on this in the event she doesn't agree to leave?

Take care - sounds like you are doing pretty well in very difficult circumstances smile


I've been worried sick about this all day. I'm not sure what to expect (like I ever do, lol). She didn't hesitate to throw the kids in right away and say she wasnt leaving without them and how I was too unstable to leave them (but the weekends and xcountry trips are ok I guess) and then tried to press my buttons. I refuse to put my kids into this so I'm not sure what to do at this point if she refuses both. First thing that comes to mind is to be calm and stand my ground but avoid arguing. As of now that's my plan. I should've thought about this a little more maybe. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I thought about what I said about telling her to get help, I brought it up because she had mentioned going to a counselor once but never again. I know I caught her during her best time of the month so I am hoping she's thinking more clearly now but I'm beting she'll stick with talking to all these new people because they tell her what she wants to hear.

Peace, hank you for the book recommendation. I need to go get a library care not hooked to her email.

It was weird how she tried to justify A but couldn't so it always turned back on me, no logic and a lot of history rewriting. I kept in mind I was arguing with a teenager which helped a lot. Maybe if I start smoking it will be uncool and she'll quit lol.

I did notice she had an old family album of her immediate family out on her bed this morning...

Kyh #2645237 01/20/16 06:00 PM
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Kyh

On my phone here too so just some bullet points

Taking the stand you did was good/can be good provided you did it for you ... Just as with boundaries it's for YOU, not to get a reaction out of your w, nor should you have expectations this will "scare her straight". Also now that you've made the stance you or set a boundary ... Hold to it otherwise she will steam roll you in all things.

I would lawyer up, you need to understand your rights and what you stand to lose/gain here, most of all protect yourself financially

My w too did not consider the affair and affair as I was informed early on and consistently " It's not an affair If we were separated" ... Truth darts help here, continue with the "YOUR A is disrespectful to me, our children and our family" .... Also inform her she may very well get the kids... 50% of the time because you will not lose your privileges as a father due to decisions made FOR you.

Don't be shocked if now the EA/PA is out of the bag she shows some emotion, very well will nice you into a false hope boat to get what she wants .... She has plotted out how the A and D is going to go ... Demonize you is part of the script to justify her actions and free her from guilt

Memorize that 37 and hold to it.... It's a tough climb and your journey has just begun


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



CaliGuy #2645529 01/21/16 01:25 PM
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Thanks for the reply.

I did do it for me. I can't live like that. She had been talking to him right in front of me at the beginning of this. She has also told me I never stand up for myself and there is some truth to that.

Yesterday and last night she was mad/upset she went directly to her room after putting the kids to bed. We didn't talk much but while I was helping the kids with homework she told me how her mom locked her in a room to make her memorize math (homeschooled starting in teens) I told her that it was horrible and that I was sorry that happened to her. Then, interesting in response to job's older post, she put grapes with dinner and said she used to eat fruit with her meals when she was younger. I said it was a good idea that more people should do that. She said yeah the kids need more fruit. Not much else got said except talking to the kids.

This morning she comes up and says good morning and thanks me for making the kids lunches. I noticed she was mirroring me a bit with being patient to the kids and I stfu and she talked for a bit. I leaned against the counter, legs crossed and she immediately did the same. Daughter came up and spilled her coffee and she started to freak, I calmly said it's ok to my daughter and grabbed some paper towels and started cleaning. W immediately calmed down and cleaned up things off the table.

It makes me think of your second to last paragraph. But I am also taking notes from your thread and trying to stfu when I need to. Especially since she says no one listens to her.

I'm not sure when/how to reapproach this with her so I'm not doing it immediately until I think it through.

Kyh #2645724 01/22/16 02:32 AM
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listen to Cali!


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
bttrfly #2646395 01/23/16 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: bttrfly
listen to Cali!


Thanks:) I needed that reminder. I've been rereading through the 37 and his thread.

Rough night last night, son came into my room around 430-5 woke me up and started asking me questions. Why wasn't mom sleeping with me anymore? How come she doesn't want to sleep with you anymore?... I just said idk and then told him I loved him. He stayed with me but I couldn't go back to sleep. I'm not sure how to handle that. Through all this I keep telling my kids I love them and try to build thier self confidence as much as I can. I'm being extra patient which I can see a mirror when she catches herself being short.

Tried to get out a bit today. This morning d tells me she has a bday party but w never mentioned it. Shortly after w comes upstairs and d tells her. She says no were supposed to meet other kids this afternoon (didn't tell me that either) and told her to pick one. I asked why and said I already told her I'd take her. Stayed for a bit then went to test drove a new car (company owner told me it was time to replace my company car yesterday!, didn't tell w) before going back towards the end. I tried to go to the library when w had kids later but her friend that I think pushes her in all this was in the self help section so I ended up leaving and kept busy walking the dogs, cleaning, and baked a cake with d later on.

W has avoided me outside the presence of the kids since telling her I won't stand for it. I don't know if I should tell her again since nothing else has been said and she seems to be avoiding me.

She's also making it hard to DB as I think she may be trying to make me jealous or angry. Tonight She told me she was wearing the dress I mentioned in an older post to a company banquet next week out of town where she's getting an award (I've told her how hot she looks in it before all this) and she also told me about a young guy at work hitting on her but then said, eww gross.

She also told me all her plans for next week, where she was staying, who she was riding with, etc. without me bringing it up.

Kyh #2646488 01/24/16 08:04 AM
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Depending on the kid, I believe it can be better to tell them the truth. This is just my personal theory from living with a MLCer throughout. They already see one parent has gone off the reservation. I think when they come to the "sane parent" asking what is going on they are looking for validation that they are right; something is truly off. If one parent is clearly crazy and the other is assuring that everything is A-okay, that can't be good long term for the kid.

When the questions started, I too answered as you did. I said "I don't know" to a lot of things. One day out of the clear blue S12 (was 11 then) asked if his dad was having a MLC? I answered "yes, I believe so." Now he asks a lot of questions about MLC and recognizes my h's teenage behaviors.

So early on, I started to answer "dad is going through a funk," and "sometimes people go through strange patches." My S12 worried this would happen to him so be prepared for that. I told him, "no, we are going to take the time now to let you grow up properly so that you learn how to be an adult with my support."

In addition to saying you love him, touch is very reassuring to them. I found this to be very true! Tousle hair, tap a nose, stroke an arm or a cheek (while making eye contact and smiling) and give lots of hugs for absolutely no reason at all. Quick/playful touch as you pass by them is very reassuring to them as well! As crazy as your wife is acting, don't sell yourself short for 1 minute! Continue to dole out that love!! And act as if everything is ok; your kids will follow your lead!!

As for your wife, when she tells you her plans maybe look to validate that with a simple "thanks for letting me know." Anytime you see any behavior you like, try to validate or praise. I imagine my h as a third kid and that helps me validate good behavior.

Regarding her comments about the dress, they do act out for attention. Best not to react to her antics.

I'll defer to the vets for the other questions about your wife.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2646685 01/24/16 10:18 PM
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I'm glad you posted, W really upset S today and I though about your post. I was letting the kids paint and the things were left out. They went back to it later and Started painting in good clothes. W saw and started yelling about it. Son was really upset and frustrated (he has trouble in this dept anyway with high functioning autism). I calmed him down and told him how his mom was hurting right now and doesn't feel good and didn't mean to yell. I calmed him down more and I told him we both love him and how great he is, and then I got an old shirt of mine for him. It's hard to find the right thing to say to a 7 yo that is extremely smart.

W needs a hysterectomy in the worst way but refuses. She could barely walk today but tries to act like she's fine. It also makes her physically ill. Meanwhile she's hurting so bad she's extra short with everyone. It's been bad for about 3 years but she refuses to get surgery or hormone therapy. She's told me she's scared.

She avoided me again tonight. I'm still not sure whether or not to say anything again so I haven't yet. I'm out of town and then she is so I won't see her for a week now but tonight definately wouldn't have been a good pick.

Kyh #2648008 01/28/16 06:57 PM
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W is still avoiding me when the kids aren't around for the most part but has talked to me a little. I haven't said much of anything but when she talks I listen.

She seemed to try to get me down before I left town this week. Then a few hours later starts texting, asked where I was going. After about an hour I hadn't responded and got another asking when my next counseling session was and said she wanted to go. I stopped driving about this time so I replied and told her where I was and said we needed to talk about it. She replied, "so you don't want me to go?" I said no but you'll be out of town. Her reply was that she "thought we should not talk without someone else." I'm thinking she has another BD in store because I haven't brought up anything to her about r since I told her I wouldn't stand for her A. At that time, she accused my therapist of initiating what I did. I told her no she didn't and that she actually asked if I thought you would come in with me (she did) but I told her no. "And you didn't even ask me!" So I asked her if she would go to which she replied "NO!" LOL.

She was wearing a necklace I got her for Christmas (I know gifting isn't good DBing but we mutually hadn't got each other anything for a long time, m error in hindsight, and I had bought it a long time before) when I got home from my trip. She thanked my son for it when she got it and I hadn't seen it again until once last week and then this week. It's probably nothing, it is really cool, but it seemed weird to me. Her jewelry wearing has changed a lot during all this.

She left for her work trip today, it was hard knowing OM is probably there but I didn't say anything about her trip, etc. I just told her congratulations on her award before she left. Trying not to let it bother me but it does. I didn't let her see though.

Caliguy, you and several others here have inspired me to remain calm through this. I can't control anything so I let it go. It's not always easy but I'm learning to keep my mouth shut and trying not to dance when she pulls strings.

I researched daughters of narcissistic mothers/fathers after reading another thread here and WOW! And it is extreme. That explains so much, oh so much. It makes me feel bad for my W as a girl, teenager, and now. W and her sister she hasn't spoke to for years and now I can see they were forced to complete for their mother's approval, etc. No wonder they've always hated each other since childhood. This really made me step back and take a look at things. Some of it rings true for me/my childhood too but I would say it is all mild compared to her situation.

Giving my kids lots of love through all of this and trying to stay positive.

Kyh #2649158 02/01/16 01:58 PM
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So W started talking with me about my next appt yesterday a few hours after she got home (looks terrible). I asked why she wanted to go with me to counseling session.  She said she thought we needed someone to mediate so we can talk.  I told her my counselor wasn't a mediator and that I was going there to work on myself. I said I would literally tape my mouth shut if she thought I needed to so she could talk, I didn't but it was hard to STFU.  It started going terrible, I had to leave and come back.  We switched rooms which seemed to help but I had to make her come talk, she was going to open up my emotions and walk away again.  I STFU and listened to what she had to say, it was everything she's brought up before but legitimate thing.  I apologized and affirmed her thoughts that were right. Most of these things were my family not me but ultimately came back onto me.  Some of these things happened a long time ago, she has a lot of resentment towards me even though a whole heck of a lot, including me, has changed.  She still hasn't mentioned one fault of her own in our m.  She is saying I've told her a lot of things I haven't, ugh...

Things came back to A, because I took a stand and have to back it up. Things got heated quick, she told me I wasn't taking her kids from her (never said anything of the sort, she brought it up) and she said I she wasn't leaving and that the only way I could get her out was to get a d and and then have the cops come and remove her.  Wow!  I told her I wasn't kicking her out but I wouldn't stand for the A in my home, while we were still married, and with our kids in the house.  More trying to justify A, and same old bs.  Got interrupted and had to bring it back up at the end of the night because she tried to ignore it and run downstairs again.  She was fighting me hard on this, to the point where she was in the garage with a suitcase saying how she couldn't believe I was kicking her out on the street, etc. I said, no I wasn't kicking her out and that I didn't want her to leave but I wouldn't stand for her to be having an A while living in my home with our children in it (said it 100 times it seems like) and she needed to get an apartment.  She said she was working on it but wanted to be making more money first (really?).  I asked if I was supposed to support her while she lived in the basement and had a boyfriend? "No."   Probably not the best thing but I told her I would be stopping by OM's office and I expected a justifiable answer on my he thought it was okay to be having an EA with a married woman with children, why my children's emotions weren't valid, and why he thinks it is okay to get involved in my family issues. She came back in and things calmed down and we talked a lot. I told her I'm not controlling your actions but I will not allow you to bring that immorality into my home and around my children.  It is wrong not matter how you want to spin it. She kept trying to justify it telling me how he was a good guy (like I give a rat's boot)
that nothing physical was happening, they were just talking and she didn't see what was wrong.  I told her it was different than my friendship with female friends __ and __ and why (I really had to explain it).  She asked what I wanted her to do; I replied not have an A while living in my home with the kids here, not disrespecting us, bringing immorality into our home, not hurting my feelings and our children's feelings.  "He listens to me and we talk" was the reply.  I asked if his feelings were more valid than mine (your children's father) and the kid's feelings.  I asked if he tried to steer her towards working on things, seeking counseling, helping herself, our kids feelings, etc. (no response) or was he just listening and waiting go get in her pants.  No response.  Then she got upset, cried, and said "I need to have a couple of days to...." um breakup...."yes". 
I don't know how to not seem controlling if I bring this back up.  Going to have to think about that...

We talked a long time after this, childhood hardships, feelings, love (makes it sound nicer than it was).  She mentioned counseling but said financially it was difficult since I was already going and she didn't want me to stop.  I offered to split our time up so she could go but she declined.  I told her the offer was always on the table but I didn't push it.  She said she doesn't do well in counseling and it hasn't done her any good in the past (on top of a bad childhood she had a traumatic event happen a couple years before we met and as far as I know step MIL and I are the only ones she's told).  She also told me she didn't know if she could actually feel love and that she felt empty.  She's been so hurt she keeps everyone away.  I told her it was everywhere around her and to keep her eyes open and look for it. 

During this conversation she also told me as a teenager she always wanted to be single and have her own apartment in the city when she got older.

On another note, has anyone else had the MLC bomb drop after a change in religious beliefs?  W was really searching a couple years ago and then decided to become atheist.  About a year ago she asked me if I would still lover her if she didn't believe in God.  I told her yes, of course I always will.  She said she was relieved because she knows it can be a big issue for some people.  Since then she is not just become atheist, she has a vendetta for anything religious (bad experiences). Such a bad attitude she can't see anything but bad in it and I don't think she has a sense of separation of spirituality and religion.  Our friend's death was really tragic and it really cemented this attitude.

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