Wait in the home or move out?

[runn79r]

My wife had an affair three years ago with a long time college friend that she knew before me. They never dated or admitted their feelings for each other until this point and that's when the flood gates opened. We were able to get past that and reconnect our marriage. She went no contact with him for almost three years and then broke the rule. three months after that they started sleeping together, I found out and we've separated. She says she's conflicted about ending our marriage but needs to see things through with the OM because of the potential for a wonderful relationship with him (long history, better communication etc).

So I'm doing my best to move on, keep her at arms length, follow all the rules. My question is whether or not I should move out of the house. We have a basement suite that I've been living in, it's made it easier to manage the transition with our daughter. Am I better off to stay in the house for proximity and staying top of mind (while detaching and not pursuing) or should I move out so that she is hit with the long term reality of how much harder things will be coordinating our daughters life etc. Currently we have strict rules about not bringing other people into the house or our daughters knowledge until we are sure they are someone who is going to be permanent (discuss first)and I have no concerns over either of us keeping that promise.

[Cristy]

Hello runn79r,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

Why would you move out of the house if your W is the one that wants out of the marriage? There are other things that you should be doing instead of moving out (or even to the basement).

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[runn79r]

She refused to have him out of her life and wants to continue the relationship. At the time I felt like I had no options and that because of the resurfacing of the OM that this was going to go on and on so we both agreed to the separation.

Only reason why I'm moving out is that I don't particularly want the house (travel for work so don't need the hassle of caring for it alone) and she couldn't afford to live anywhere else (kid, dog, cat, parents near by). So the decisions on that front have all been fair and amicable.

She is well aware that I have forgiven her and want to continue the marriage (we've learned a lot about both our shortcomings, which are all fairly minor). Are you saying I should put my foot down on the divorce/separation process and move back into the house? Seems that is counter intuitive to not pressuring them to change their mind.

[mvgfwd2]

Read Sandi's post on WW's. It will answer most of your questions.

[runn79r]

So Sandi's post helped a bit but didn't specifically address the proximity issue. I speaking with one of the coaches I've been advised that staying close and focusing on friendship is the best route at this point. What I struggle to understand is finding balance between being a friend and letting them be a cake eater.

I would do favors for a friend and help them out with things (help them with a project, fixing their car etc) but in this scenario where do you draw the line of staying in the position of "Mr. Reliable" who she doesn't need to be married to in order to have all the support benefits while she is off getting her relationship fulfilled by another man.

Is it really the best idea to just let them have it both ways and wait for the affair to die?

[Zephyr]

Is it really the best idea to just let them have it both ways and wait for the affair to die?

Runnr,

here is the deal...you are not just waiting. NOPE. You are going to start living your life for you, you are exploring those areas of your life you want to improve on for you, you are looking at the real reasons why your marriage started to fail (so that YOU can be a better husband in the future - for you!), so you can start to learn what makes you tick and how you can be a content, satisfied, loving human being.

You are going to GAL, get a life of your own to start to enjoy what the world has to offer you, and you are going to do this without your wife.

You are going to do your 180's and start to tear your fabric of yourself apart to figure out how to make you a better person, because quite honestly there is not a single soul who comes to this site as the BEST they can be...so you are going to start creating a new Runnr who IS going to be the best one possible.

You are going to learn what love is all about, how to forgive, give up resentment, understand how women tick...all these things will be tools you carry for the rest of your life - making you a better partner in the future. This is not for your wife, it is because you want to be, OK?

So lets put those running shoes on and start to walk towards a better runner. I would see if you can either paste your current posts from in here into the newcomers section, or see if the admins can help there...getting the whole thing transferred over...I think you will get more traffic on your thread.

I am so very sorry you are here, but I am glad you found us.
You are going to do well.

[sandi2]

So Sandi's post helped a bit but didn't specifically address the proximity issue.

Yes I did. Are you sure you read all five threads, or just one post?

I speaking with one of the coaches I've been advised that staying close and focusing on friendship is the best route at this point. What I struggle to understand is finding balance between being a friend and letting them be a cake eater.

That's about the only part I disagree with them. The betrayed H and the wayward W are not going to see "friends" with the same point of view. You are already confused where to draw the line. She is not your friend, she's a liar, a cheater, a betrayer......need I go on?

In some WAW situations, you might could be friends......sort of. But when you have a wayward wife in an A? Forget it. However, that's just my opinion.

There is a time for friendship, but it's not when she's in an active affair with OM.

[runn79r]

So the posting basically says to stand your ground and don't move out. While normally I agree with that standpoint it simply doesn't work for me as I travel for work and from an insurance perspective it's a pain to leave a house unattended for 4-5 days at a time (among other things). So not staying in the marital space is best for me, it is also the inevitable path I will take if we divorce (my choice).

My question is should I move out of the house all together immediately so she gets the full reality and pain of her situation. Our finances are split, I don't do her any favors etc the only reality she hasn't been exposed to is how difficult it will be to not have her daughter in the same house as her and the conveniences when it comes to coordination, packing bags etc. To be clear we are in separate suites so think of it like having two apartments side by side.

So no, in all the threads I didn't see anything that specifically addressed this, just multiple things that sort of point to in. It says stay in the space and make her move and limit physical interaction. Maybe I missed something, please point it out directly if that's the case.

So that says to me I should get out and continue moving on with my life as I have been doing (and enjoying). I know I'll be fine without the marriage, it's just my preference to keep my family together.

Thanks for the help.

[sandi2]

Are you financing the marital home while she stays there?

So no, in all the threads I didn't see anything that specifically addressed this, just multiple things that sort of point to in. It says stay in the space and make her move and limit physical interaction. Maybe I missed something, please point it out directly if that's the case. ( Read the sentence next to last. )

So that says to me I should get out and continue moving on with my life as I have been doing (and enjoying). I know I'll be fine without the marriage, it's just my preference to keep my family together.

What says to you that you should move out? It seems you have already made up your mind, so do what you want to do.

[mvgfwd2]

How old is your daughter and where does she live?

Others have suggested that if you move out you may be a risk of being accused of abandonment of your family. I don't know what that means in regards to a separation or divorce but it doesn't sound like something positive for you. Have a consultation with a lawyer before you actually move out to understand your rights and the risks of moving out.

[SM34]

I was given the same advice by my coach. In a nutshell I think the idea is to not seem like you are turning your back on your spouse during their crisis.

After our ordeal ended my wife has told me that the way I acted made it very clear to her that I was her best friend and that her place is with me.

OM turned out to be a liar and a cheat. If he's prepared to cheat with a married woman and break up a family, he is scum and it will eventually be obvious to your W. But at that point you need to be the best option in her mind, so that's why I believe the coaches have you work on friendship.

Friendships can burst into flames of passion. Look at what her old friendship with OM resulted in.

But don't mistaken being friendly with actually being a doormat. Friendly is how you would be towards a neighbor or an associate at work. Kind and polite etc

Doormat is doing everything she tells you too. Not sure if I'm explaining this well so hopefully others chime in with examples.

If she asks you to for example go mow the yard, you would politely say " oh sure, no problem, right after I'm done watching this show". So you do it but on your time and at your convenience. It's not she says jump and you say how high.

What were the issues in your marriage?

Do you think you guys got things worked out well enough after the first time this happened?

What's the marital start of OM?

[runn79r]

Thank-you, that's the type of feedback I was looking for. An answer with an example etc.

OM is not married or in a relationship. He had a girlfriend the firs time things happened and his justification for breaking up our family is that my wife is his soul mate and she is different than anyone else he's ever dated. I have a feeling he will be overly clingy and put too much pressure on her to get married/move in etc. Which she may or may not succumb to.

She will ask for help, advice, schedule accommodation etc. For the most part it is a two way street between us. Neither of us tells the other what to do, it is always asked. She's more reliant on my help than hers but I don't accommodate anything that is frivolous and there have only been a couple of times where she has asked for something that she recognizes and acknowledges is unfair and I haven't accommodated (or if I have it is with some form of mutual concession).

The primary issues in our marriage was that I was over responsible and she was under responsible. She lives a very unstructured life and has a some self sabotage issues / esteem issues. My default position is to always just take care of things and that didn't help the situation. It gave me less energy to give to the relationship (giving her what she needed) and also made her feel even more like a child because she wasn't responsible for things. There was too much resentment on both our parts which caused us both to distance. We've learned a lot about what our issues were and what needed to be done to make the relationship healthy.

That's part of my concern is that she's trying very hard to take this new understanding about how to have a healthy relationship into the new relationship rather than applying it to her marriage. She is committed to seeing things through with him because they have more similarities and she feels they communicate better. Hence my concern over how supportive/friendly to be because it may reinforce the fact that she can have the best of both worlds, a great co-parent and whatever new relationship she wants.

Thanks again for your help.

[runn79r]

Our daughter is 8.
We split time with her 50/50 depending on both our work schedules. Right now I'm closer to 65% because of her work but that will alternate every few months.

On the legal front we have had no issues with agreements and have agreed to have the legal separation agreement in place prior to me moving out.

[runn79r]

Financing of the home is currently 50/50. We have all finances split and divided where needed. My contribution is the equivalent to what she would collect in rent on the suite or about the same as what it will cost me to move out so there is no financial advantage or disadvantage.

It actually makes no difference to me if I move out or not. I've committed to working on myself and not getting into another relationship so I don't need the space/separation.

Staying makes things easier for my daughter and on us for juggling schedules and commitments. The only potential advantage to moving out would be that reality hits her of how difficult co-parenting will be when we are in a different space and the loss of comfort knowing that I'm in the house and we can rely on each other when needed.

Moving out may in fact push her to move in with the OM sooner as she would lose some sense of security.

So take me at my word, I haven't made up my mind either way. I'm genuinely looking for insight and advice on positioning to leave the door open to reconciliation.

[SM34]

Can you add information to your signature so that we can reference it quickly? Click on My Stuff at the top, then choose Edit Profile and scroll to the bottom for signature box.

We need, your age, your wife age, the date of first A, the date of second BD, Age of Daughter, current living arrangement etc. Take a look at mine and others to see how to type a brief of it. Makes things much much easier for us.

[runn79r]

Just a bit of an update and looking for feedback and advice. Not sure if I should post this here or elsewhere, let me know.

So I've decided to stay in the house and not give up my position. I've been following the advice of the DB coach and have been working of the friendship, positive interactions, 180's, family time etc. Wife has stated she isn't going to make any major changes until we've been separated for the year which is in September. That means not moving in with the OM, not introducing him to our daughter or being public with their relationship. She has asked that I do the same if I enter into another relationship but admits she's in no position to make any requests of me.

She and her extended family invited me to a couple of gatherings over the holidays and everything went very well. She's noted that there has been some jealousy from the OM of our relationship together, which she has told him he will just have to deal with because she wants to make sure we have a good relationship for our daughter. She also still tells us both that she isn't going to commit to one or the other because she is conflicted and doesn't know what to do. She's been experiencing pretty heavy guilt and the OM has been putting some pressure on her to take their relationship to the next level. She typically doesn't respond well to that.

Last night we had an interesting conversation where she admitted that lately she is becoming sensitive/empathetic to all the hurt she's caused. Some of this may be due to the fact that I've been talking about dating and have been going out quite a bit so she's worried about losing me as an option before she's figured things out. She understands how completely unfair she's been in the whole thing and her expectations, she's just willing to live with the consequences of her potentially bad choices. She also finally admitted that it wasn't my fault that she had the affair, that the marriage was in a better place than it had been in a long time. The bottom line is that she loves two men and doesn't know what to do about it, that we fill her needs in different ways and she doesn't want to lose either. She say's she never fell out of love with me and never questioned my love or loyalty for her. She admits to feeling hurt that I could go on to love someone else instead of her, even though it's a ridiculous expectation.

So my question is:
Keep on the path the coach has advised, work on the friendship and relationship and wait for the affair with the OM to break down, for the romantic infatuation to wear off? I'm sure this is what she is clinging to and frankly by keeping the affair from developing further she is attempting to preserve this stage as long as possible. I think this is probably the best way but it allows her to cake-eat and stay in limbo.

Or go Sandy's route and restrict her access to the benefits of our relationship as long as she chooses to continue the affair. Losing access to that portion of her needs being met may tear her apart and end the affair or it may drive her to the OM as the only option left to her. She's pretty stubborn and resolved and has always been one to revolt against authoritative or parental type pressure. That's part of why she is so firm in not making nay decisions to further things either way at this point. She would rather wait for the answer to come to her, but it's good to hear she has set a personal deadline later this year.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for the help.

[mvgfwd2]

She's cake-eating and you are facilitating it. Don't let her believe you are available for plan B for a second.

Her telling you it's OK for you to date others and she won't tell is nothing more that her alleviating her own guilt. Don't fall for it. You have to stand for saving the M. However, it is a good thing to go out with friends, even female friends.

Being friendly is not the same as being a friend. One is just being courteous the other is being a doormat on plan B.

[RAI]

Hi Runn79r,

I see you have not posted in a while. I just wanted to thank you for mentioning the song "Could have been me" by the Struts (in Flight's thread). It is a nice anthem about living your life and living your life without regrets. We all have good reason to listen to it right now. I am posting it to the DB songbook thread. Check it out if you have a chance.

You only have 13 posts and already you have made an impact! I am sorry for your sitch. I hope you keep posting. I hope you will benefit from the advice offered here, as I have.

Best,

RAI

[mbebos]

So much of this is a mental game. I am seeing from many of the posts I read, that the cheating spouse usually has to see some real danger that you are or could be moving on to wake them up. I like the idea of you staying in the house, but it is that perceived moving on (GAL, be a better person, treat your W kindly without being a doormat), are all integral parts of being a man she would be nuts not to choose.

Personal trainer single guy who has affairs with married woman is nothing on you, and I don't even know you. Your W's image of you may be that you are broken in XYZ ways, but deep down she knows better when she stops lying to herself, and sees the new you, or the new old you, or whatever you are working towards.

I spoke with a guy last night, who I had no idea he was going through a similar sitch as me for the last year and a half. She had an A, they sold their house, he is being an awesome dad, and he literally just dropped the I don't want you anymore hammer. He started going out and laying down with every 15 years younger girl he could find. Got more tattoos, does what he wants, even got a new job about a year later. He never put his kids in contact with any of his flings, but his W was jealous. Last week she called him, said she was sorry, she missed him, she missed the family element, missed the marriage. 1.5 years later the OM fizzled, he has moved on, and now has a new hope. He was doing alot of DB work without realizing it. (except the many many flings). The point is here, she had to be free of OM, and really see her H was moving on to change. It is different for everyone's situation, but that perception of someone not attached to you seems to work.

[Cristy]

Hello Runn79r,

You are definitely posting in the right place.

I'm glad you decided to stay in the house and have been following the advice from you DB Coach.

How are the GAL activities going? You have not posted in a while and we're all hoping that things are going well for you.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[Flight]

This guy in a similar situation, did they still live together or sell the house, live apart, and now she is interested again?

[runn79r]

It's been a while since I've been on here but I see there is some interest in an update. As I've received a lot of insight from others I'll share in the hope it helps someone else.

Firstly I've really come to terms with the issues involving my wife's narcissism and how that plays a factor in my codependency and the strong desire I've had to stay with her. I've made so many excuses for her over the years and shouldered so much of the blame. I've come to terms with how it has blinded me and how careful I have to be in my involvement with her.

Now having said all that, at the start of January I cut her off and used the A-LRT. The prior strategy of being friends only allowed her to cake eat and her narcissistic appetite made that a bad strategy. The A-LRT caused a lot turmoil, it's made her a wreck and many times she has tried to wriggle her way back into my life. When I call her out on it she has put it on me saying she is "following my lead" (I've been friendly but distant) which is crap and I have called her out on it every time.

After three weeks it seemed she was falling apart and ready to call it off with the OM for the sake of us and our family. I was skeptical and made the terrible error of snooping through her phone (I have the password but she doesn't know I do). Huge mistake - sort of. I was getting crocodile tears and stories and meanwhile they only seem to be getting closer, planning trips etc. My anxiety went through the roof and it set me back a ton. I've learned that what was really happening was not so much heart break from hoping we would get back together, but the pain of not being able to trust someone who has been so close to me for so long. The loss of faith in humanity essentially, but I have to remember it isn't the world, just her. Any attempt by her to come back to the marriage at this point would fail because she hasn't seen the other relationship through to failure and would always have it in the back of her mind as a fall back plan. I simply won't go there.

So I'm moving on. I've looked at who she is objectively and the personal issues she has. Not just during the affair, when people don't act like themselves, but at all the unhealthy behavior over our whole relationship. I can't fix her, it's not my job to fix her, and if I don't look after myself she will drag me down and this will go on and on. I've come to terms that the only way we could ever have a healthy relationship is if she completely falls apart, gets the help she needs and completely rebuilds herself. Maybe that makes me a poor husband for not standing by her through that, I'm not sure.

So we are getting the separation agreement in place and I'm moving out and moving on with my life. Once I've had my time to heal then maybe we can have some sort of friendship that will best serve our daughter, but I will not give her an ounce of opportunity to drag me down in the meantime. She needs love and support but not at my expense. I'll always be open to the idea of rebuilding our marriage and family, but not unless she can transform her self as a person and I'm not confident she can do that any time soon. I should also note that she has been really hot and cold with the OM, keeping him at arms length at times, talking about her conflict and then at times making big plans for them togehter. She's really working the hot/cold thing on him and by still keeping their relationship quiet she can preserve the high that comes with the secret (but not so secret) affair. This is one that has to run it's full course and it's simply too difficult for me to stay close while that happens. Maybe I should be stronger for the sake of my marriage but moving on will help me to be a better person and be stronger for my daughter. Which she really needs since her mom is such a mess. I do feel I have detached and I'm ready to move on into the next chapter of a fulfilling life.

I welcome any feedback. Everything is an opportunity to learn.

[runn79r]

Felt compelled to post a follow-up for some reason. It's been quite a while.

Moving out was the best thing for me. Getting back to a mentally and physically healthy me. Time for myself, lots of GAL which was really more about getting back my life that was sucked out of me in my marriage.

I really can't stress enough to others to watch out for the narcissism issue. The ex wife has since left her affair partner as it was causing her guilt to rip her apart not to mention she sees me for what I was when we got married now that I'm back to myself, credit to not having to constantly pick up the pieces of everything behind her. My fault for letting my boundaries be constantly violated.

So she says she's going to fight to get me back but I've moved on and met someone else who's been through the same thing as me and we are so much more aligned in our values and such (but not rushing).

The funny part is that in trying to show how much she wants me back, the pain she's feeling etc. She's making her self out to be so hard done by to her friends etc. and frankly she's making me look like the jerk for pointing out her faults to her and not being willing to go back to what I see now was an abusive marriage.

Once a narcissist always a narcissist, be careful of their destructive games!

[Scotch]

runn79r

Can you expand on the narcissism topic. I've actually just had this brought up about my sitch.

[twinmom]

Be careful throwing around that word. It is something for a psychological professional to diagnose.