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LouR Offline OP
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Thanks mleigh

I know I have thrown myself a pity party for one, I should be thankful of what I do have and look at the things I don't have as goals to strive for. Easier said than done sometimes.

I hope that by sharing what my h has told me (he would be mortified if he ever knew) that it may help others understand that what the mlc'er is doing really isn't about their spouse, its about them. Also when they do start to come out of this its not an easy and simple process.

Thank you my friends for your continued support - I looked back at what I wrote in my journal a year ago today, I was sending my stuff off to the uk and h had text me about finances, I was all hopeful that he may stop me from leaving the country ha ha, it did raise a smile reading it. I hope that this time next year I can read this years entry and raise a smile at this one too.

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Oh my dear Lou, not a pity party... these feelings have to come out or they fester ... we don't need YOU to turn to the dark side and have a MLC, lollol....

Yes, it is VERY difficult to know what one wants, at least for me. I think spending the past 15 years being a mom and putting the family before me has made it especially difficult to become clear on what * I * want, separate from those I love. Make sense? I somehow think you might be able to relate to that statement

So how does one do that? I do not profess to have any answers. The weeks s is with h I've spent a vast amount of time alone, intentionally so. I've gone inward. I've really thought about things in a more macro sense first, then micro - meaning, I've started by thinking what do I want my space around me to feel like, what do I want to fill it with? Everyone will have different answers to that. My answer was light, love, safety, friendship, community ... then I started thinking about the details ... things actually became a lot clearer for me when I did that. I asked for a lot of guidance from God/Spirit/The Universe. Once I had something solid, like light, love, safety, etc. I wrote it down and thought about it some more. Then one day when I was driving and thinking about it, something said to record my thoughts, so I did. I later wrote that out too. Every day for months I would read it out loud, sometimes many times a day. I don't know if this is helpful? It is the process I used. I will say that the apartment I hope to move to definitely feels like it has the potential to hold all of that and more. I hope this helps you dear Lou.

Also my heartfelt thanks for sharing not only your story but also what's going on with your H. You help me to understand the other side of this story. It's not pretty, is it? There's so much pain for everyone, but at least we LBS don't have the additional guilt weighing on us. I feel so much more compassion towards the MLCer every time you and others share glimpses of the "other side" so thank you so very much for your honesty and openness.

Enjoy your hols Lou ... you know, one day you and I should have a chat about herbs and flower essences. Not sure why I feel that you might be a budding herbalist ... just a niggling suspicion ... xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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LouR Offline OP
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Thanks bttrfly for sharing and giving me a new perspective on this. And yes you are correct, I love flowers and herbs, I am very into homeopathic remedies.

My hols did not quite do the trick of letting my mind settle, but despite this it has been a wonderful break and the knowledge that its not long until I get my mini breaks for xmas and new year keeps me moving forwards.

h let me know he has booked the ferry for him to come to me for Christmas, I was a bit shocked as I was prepared for the excuses to continue and him not come. I had even made my own plans - going to a Christmas Eve party after work and then Christmas Day an invite to a bbq on the beach for all the lonely's who have nowhere else to go ! I don't know if s21 and g/friend are coming yet, it going to be a very bizarre Christmas lol.

The other thing that has happened h wise is that his m has b/cancer for the 2nd time, different tumour, but resulting in a mastectomy, op went well and recovering good. Results were good, nothing in nodes and all tumour removed. However chemo has been advised to make sure no rogue cells got free so she has opted to go ahead with it. She starts just before Christmas so has had to cancel her plan to see her s (h's b) and g/kids for Christmas - this woman is family orientated and Christmas is a big deal for her, she cant do Christmas without family. So she told h that because the g/kids may have colds or bugs she has to stay clear of them and that makes her sad - so what does h do - he has decided he is going to fly over and surprise her between c/mas and n/year. That's all wonderful and its him through and through (well the old him) this is the guy I knew. BUT he is also doing the impulsive thing jump first and think later. In the meantime I receive an email from MIL, newsy stuff, mostly things that h has already told me as she does not know we are in such close contact, and she mentioned that if g/kids are germ free in between c/mas and n/year and she feels ok then they are going to visit them. She also mentioned they were spending c/mas day with good friends.

So when h told me his plan to fly over for 10 days and in the middle go see his brother, I replied "yes, I know, your mum mentioned she was going to visit them all pending germs"; he replied "?? she's not going anywhere, not seeing family, that's why I am going to go and see her, so she sees family over Christmas and as a surprise"
so I copied the part of her email that related to the visit and c/mas day and sent it to him. I then replied (and I know this is a gamble that he could take it the wrong way, but I feel we are at the point of being able to be open enough to point stuff out things that the other may not see) "She may not yet get to see them, unfortunately its down to the day of everyone being well, and that includes you. Its a great gesture and I get why you are wanting to do this however I will say this (and please don't take this as me trying to dissuade you) this is a long journey (nz to uk) and a lot of money for 10 days and if you get sick you wont be able to see her. The boys tend to jump first think second so just want to make sure you have thought this through sensibly". He replied " the biggest reason to go was so she sees family over Xmas season, she did not tell me b is even an option. Nothing has been confirmed, its still at the idea stage, will contact f and ask him what he thinks".

I know this sounds really harsh - I do. H has not paid me for a while so he can continue therapy, he has been working to pay off his debts and doing well - to put this trip on his cc makes me a bit miffed to say the least. She has been given a good prognosis - 85% chance of not returning for another 10yrs so its not like this is a mercy dash home, which I would completely support, neither is it a long trip to spend quality time with her during her illness. If he gets sick then he cannot be near her - which is what the whole point of the trip is. He has traveled all that way to see her, would she really have the heart to turn him away if he comes down with a cold, should he put her in that position?
Am I being a terrible person? Perhaps I am not seeing it ?? My mum was not up for visitors and she was conscious of being "ok" when we were around, she put on a brave face, she was also very cautious of colds and bugs, I suppose that's my experience of chemo.
I do get why he wants to go back to see her (although she drives him crazy so that's why its only for a short time with a jaunt to see his b halfway for a sanity trip) so for him to think of doing this is a selfless act, its about making his mum happy and that's just great, its a sign he is moving forwards himself.

Whatever he decides to do I will support him, its his choice at the end of the day.

My mum made a cross stitch advent Calendar for me and my bx2 when we were kids, she hung small gifts and chocolates on it, the last day 24th was always a magazine. Lovely memories. Anyway, she left it to me and I used it for my boys until a few years ago. S18 asked if I would do it this year for him and g/friend so its come out of storage and I have been wrapping little things up all day to hang on it ready for tomorrow.

Back to work tomorrow, let the silly season begin - we have all the backpackers, fruit pickers and vine trimmers arriving in town for the summer season so its very busy at work - back to the toothbrush crazy !!

Thanks as always for reading, hope everyone well and you all had a great weekend xx

Last edited by LouR; 11/30/15 03:57 AM.
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Hi everyone,

Not much happening in GAL department, work seems to have taken over again. I did manage to get a bit of Christmas shopping done but I am really far behind, not helped by a funds problem (not had anything from h for a few months now as he asked to defer payments to help pay for therapy), I have explained to my g/friends that this year I will only be doing cards and they have all been on board with this – apart from them sending me gifts which I feel embarrassed at. I know they understand my current financial position but that does not make it any easier to accept gifts from them.

H wise, he rang last night, we had not had communication of any sort for a week. We talked ….well actually ended up more like sparing at times …for a couple of hours. I know that perhaps I should have guzzled down a few of Cali’s STFU smoothies.

I don’t want to show h a meek me, a woman who accepts and validates all his thoughts and decisions. If we are to make it, he needs to get to know the new me, the one who wants my voice to be heard and that my opinion matters. To walk on eggshells and go along with what he says and does will only set us up for problems when he discovers the real me. So I argued my corner, admittedly totally unnecessary at times, I know I could have let a lot of it go, but the more he tried to do his control and manipulate tricks the more I stood my ground. In the end we agreed to disagree and changed the subject, visiting a few subjects that caused more tension, but we got there, we carried on talking, we kept going with it, neither slamming the phone down (I was tempted a few times) and we got through, ending a 2 ½ hr conversation with a flirty joke.

I was drained to be honest and there was so many red flags raising themselves, me wondering if this is really the guy I want to be with. The thing is, this process is far from over for both of us and he is changing all the time (like the visit to see his family which he has shown no interest in doing for the past 9 yrs), so this is not the end result, who knows what will stay, what will go and what new things are still to be added. I can’t judge him on who he is now, which is a good thing as I really don’t like lots of parts. I ended up feeling bullied and that caused flashbacks of our m, only this time I did not take it quietly.

He is going back to the UK for a visit, I don’t agree with his decision but I respect it. He acknowledged he has a control and manipulation problem, it’s what makes him fantastic at his job, but he brings it into his personal life and knows that it is what affected me in our m and affected ow in their r, he knows it’s an area he has to work on for any r to work and be equal.

S21 and his g/friend are coming for xmas, so its going to be a full house 6 of us in a tiny 2 bed unit lol. Its either going to be a blast or a disaster ha ha. I have manged to buy the booze, so if all goes wrong then I can get completely sloshed and remain in this state for the 3 days – joking !

I bought up with h the subject of him sleeping in my bedroom, I suppose I just wanted a hint as to what this was about - He said he has no problem with sleeping next to me and that he has been working on the whole guilt/physical interaction issue and the only way to test out if he has got past it is to be near me again. This has worried me slightly about what he hopes will happen when he is staying in my bedroom. The flirty texts hinted at fooling around, but how do I approach this – I am pretty sure he is not ready for s%x and I really don’t know how I feel about it, I am worried that it will spark off ow issues for me, but it’s one of those things that I will only find out once actually going through with it – I suppose I should just be brave and ask him straight out, but really don’t know what to say to him.

Thanks as always for taking the time to read my posts.

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I have been a good girl this week. Realize I have been on the angry crazy train and needed to get off before I ruin any chance I have of rebuilding a r with h. I think its been a combination of being extremely tired from work and h being honest with his feelings on subjects which in turn touched nerves with me. My old self would have said nothing but this new, more vocal me, needs to learn when to keep my mouth shut, listen and let the small stuff go.

So this weekend, lots of texting been going on. Kept it light, no r talk, h talk, or giving my unasked for opinions - grin

Work wise - I spoke to the Store Manager and informed him I would like to step down from my position in the New Year and that I appreciate he may not have anything else suitable for me, but currently the hours I work don't give me a work/life balance. He understands what I would like and why, but really does not want to lose me from my position now I have the dept running well so asked for some time to come up with a solution.
I have heard on the grapevine that he is going to offer me Mon - Fri with an early finish on a Friday when I want to catch the last flight or if h is coming to visit me the ability to pick him up from the airport.

So its a quandary, another decision to make. The days and hrs mean that h and I will now have the same days off so we can visit each other without having to keep taking holidays. It also means I can stay in the town I live and have made friends in. The downside is that I will still be on the op island to h, we will need to fly back n forth so finances will come into play, plus my job is physically causing me pain (but that will lesson when the season is over as right now i do a 9hr workout everyday and I am getting waaaay to old lol).

H says take it as it works for now and as things change between us then I can re address it. But I dont want to mess my boss around, he has been good enough to fight for me, I don't want to be disloyal to him. IDK, I am no good at this stuff.

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Hi Lou, it's great that the store want to keep you, and if better hours are available, it might be best to stay put for a little while longer and see how it goes. That way you don't need to make big changes to your own life and have some opportunities to link with your H on a more frequent basis. I've had similar discussions with my boss. He is keen for me to stay, I'm not sure about my longer term plans and don't want to let them down. But even if you only stayed another nine months and decided to move on, where's the harm?

I can recall reading that drawing closer to your spouse again does bring out the feelings of anger. It is something to work through. Your H is working through a lot of stuff himself, so it may be tough for him to face your anger too. I think you are wise to let the small stuff go.

Take care Sweetie xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hi Sotto, thanks for your reply and thoughts.

I really need to work on these anger feelings and being so vocally opinionated. I did not have a voice, he left, I had to harden up and its now gone the other way!! He says stuff like he does not regret leaving me or does not regret getting into a relationship so quickly and I see red. I don't understand his explanations and rationalizing so therefore find it hard to accept and let go of. All it does is make me wonder if he really is worth all this, if he deserves me. I know we need to find our harmony and that is going to take time. I also know that I need to calmly ask him to try and explain things in a different way - like with ow - his thought process is that he does not regret her because he understands now that he got into a relationship to avoid dealing with why he left me and the actual leaving me, if it wasn't for her and the disaster of them, he would not have got to the point that he is at now; he wishes he had not done it because it caused me more pain and hurt her, but he does not regret it ?? And he questions why I request he take the picture down for next time I visit - because yes it was a gift from her, but he just sees it as a nice picture, not as a reminder of her. He said, where does this stop - the clothes she has bought for me and I like, do I now need to chuck out my favorite jumper ....um yes !!! and now I will wonder if the jumper he is wearing came from her ....breathe breathe lol. Am I being unreasonable, is this one of the Let It Go times?

The reasoning behind going back to see his family has evolved, if only he had explained it the way he has eventually done. Its all about his family and reconnecting to them, letting them know he cares - something he has not done since we met 25yrs ago! - he does not want to be on a plane doing a mercy dash or worse still going to a funeral. Apparently these feeling all started in March when his young friend (22yrs) was killed in a car accident. This is about the same time he started having feelings and thoughts for me again and he started questioning everything. Maybe this is why spending Christmas as a family has become important to him.

V here are so right, it can take years for the mlc'er to come through this, even when they start to show signs of coming out of the tunnel it takes them a long time to come out into the sunshine again.

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Lou,
Your h is thinking out loud and saying things that he most likely would not have normally said (pre-crisis). I know you can't make sense of his comments, but he is thinking and trying to rationalize his behavior. Yes, it's frustrating, but this is all part of his crisis and yes, figuring things out for himself. This is where it takes a lot of patience, and I do mean a lot of patience to listen and keep the duct tape over the mouth moments.

He's truly still in crisis and doesn't understand why the picture needs to come down. He's still trying to navigate being a teenager and they truly do not understand why such things would hurt or annoy us...yes, things such as that up on the wall and in your face are reminders of what transpired...however, to them, they are just gifts and there are no emotional ties to them..

Going back and reconnecting w/his family is important in order for him to move forward. He needs to go back and reconnect w/them to better understand the why's, hows and whats of happened in his young life.

For now, sit quietly and the answers will come. Do not try to rush his process because he needs to go at his own pace and be able to express his thoughts. It appears that he feels safe in talking to you and yes, you are going to hear things that will make you angry and some that will hurt...but try to keep in mind that he is looking for the answers within.

Most importantly...breathe and keep those expectations at zero. You can't rationalize the irrational...so listen, only comment when asked your opinion and then try to let those conversations go because they may not make sense to you.

Yes, it takes a very long time for them to come through their crisis. When they begin the journey out of the crisis is where the really hard work begins not only for the MLCer, but the LBS as well. Why the LBS? Because we start to see some normalcy and we begin expecting certain things and yes, we begin to push and get frustrated that they aren't on or close to the same page that we are. This is where many possible reconciliations will fail because we lose our patience w/them. If you truly want your h back, give him the time he needs to heal and become a mature man that will be worth the wait.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi LouR- I just want you to know that I am so sorry. Words hurt and they can be very hard to forget.

However, he is saying that ow meant nothing to him. Try to choose to listen to those words! In fact, he even says that was a disaster. Don't give her the power over you and your thoughts. Of course if his empathy chip were not short circuited he would understand why these statements hurt you.

One of the things I read along the way and try to remember is that right now it is not possible for you two to meet each other's emotional needs. He is too immature yet. And as a grown woman, you need a man with a man's mind and heart.

As hard it is to keep your mouth shut, you will learn more if you can do it. I tried to treat my H like a case study in MLC vs. my husband. (I was doing a decent job at this--really he told me some CRAZY things! And I did learn a lot. But receipt of that letter derailed me and my interest in learning more. I suddenly felt like I had bought a ticket onto the Titanic and not in first class! I needed to set a boundary telling him he had gone far enough. It was TMI.)

Remember to hear that he is saying she was a disaster! You are leagues ahead of her. Focus on how you are the lighthouse...


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Thanks job and HaWho

Job -

Originally Posted By: job
For now, sit quietly and the answers will come. Do not try to rush his process because he needs to go at his own pace and be able to express his thoughts. It appears that he feels safe in talking to you and yes, you are going to hear things that will make you angry and some that will hurt...but try to keep in mind that he is looking for the answers within.

Most importantly...breathe and keep those expectations at zero. You can't rationalize the irrational...so listen, only comment when asked your opinion and then try to let those conversations go because they may not make sense to you.


When your right, your right, and you always are! Thank you. I allowed myself to get tangled up in his process. Its been easy to get drawn into this part of it, you warned me not to and I did, grrrrr. I have bought duct tape in bulk and the recipe for Cali's smoothies - just got to use them ha ha.

Originally Posted By: job
Yes, it takes a very long time for them to come through their crisis. When they begin the journey out of the crisis is where the really hard work begins not only for the MLCer, but the LBS as well. Why the LBS? Because we start to see some normalcy and we begin expecting certain things and yes, we begin to push and get frustrated that they aren't on or close to the same page that we are. This is where many possible reconciliations will fail because we lose our patience w/them. If you truly want your h back, give him the time he needs to heal and become a mature man that will be worth the wait.


I can quite see how many don't make it through this part of the process, it is sooooo frustrating and confusing. I know that I am in a position that many of us here would like to be in, so I am aware that I am lucky and I should not waste this opportunity. I don't seem to be doing a very good job of it so far, I know the theory but struggle with the practice !!

HaWho

Originally Posted By: HaWho
Remember to hear that he is saying she was a disaster! You are leagues ahead of her. Focus on how you are the lighthouse...


Its not her I have a problem with - Reality is she was a needy woman who decided that it was ok to get involved with a still married guy who had just got out of a very long r, she must have no self respect or morals. She turned out to be everything he dislikes in a woman and the disastrous s$x ha ha ha, - my sx2 both describe her as a crazy chick with serious issues, so how on earth can I compare myself to that - she made me look great !! Its what she represents that I have difficulty getting over - the pain of him choosing to move on, replace me, the fun fluffy good life he gave her (enough for her to still want him), which really stung, that destroyed me. That is what the picture and gifts represent - The pain and destruction he caused me.

Let it Go .........

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