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This is so new... It must be very hard for you to think about talking to him. I have read your threads and thought about replying before, but felt a little down in the dumps and not encouraging at all.

I would probably have replied with 'What do you want to talk about?"

You can also ask that he e-mails you, so you won't have to deal with the difficult emotions of talking to him, if you don't want to. It can also be helpful in order to keep calm and get to document everything.

ETA: Just realized that I skipped a whole page of posts when I replied...


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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My W tried to pull a separation agreement. It was very much in her favour, so I just simply refused to sign it. End of story. You don't have to do anything that you don't want to do anymore. Obviously, protect yourself, but if it isn't in your interests, then don't bother.

I notice you also live in chilly Scotland as well - NDY is also up here, so if you need local advice, I guess we could help with that.

The tiredness is a bugger to deal with. TBH, I've been in an in house separation since April and I wouldn't recommend it. I see your H has cleared off - trust me, this will be less stressful than if he was around. Remember though, if you pay for your mortgage/rent you don't have to leave the house, even if your H wants you to.


M 45 W 52
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Not living together 4 Dec 2015
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Hi focus22. I am sure that you are aware of this but these WAS can be very manipulative. I ultimately realized that my wife was trying to orchestrate a divorce that was favorable to her. I was fortunate enough to have a counselor who advised me to talk to an attorney. It cost me $200 but I gained a lot of information that I would otherwise not had. The decision to file for divorce is a separate issue. Make sure that you arm yourself with information. Information about saving your marriage, rebuilding your life, and the process of ending your marriage if it comes to it.


M:53 W:47 M:15 years. S:18 S's: 30 & 28 from previous marriage. BD: 3/14 Divorced January 17.
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Thank you so much Painter, Huddy, shotgun. As always, I appreciate your kindness in replying to my thread and your sharing your own perspectives. It all helps more than I could say.

Originally Posted By: Painter
This is so new... It must be very hard for you to think about talking to him. I have read your threads and thought about replying before, but felt a little down in the dumps and not encouraging at all.

I would probably have replied with 'What do you want to talk about?"

You can also ask that he e-mails you, so you won't have to deal with the difficult emotions of talking to him, if you don't want to. It can also be helpful in order to keep calm and get to document everything.

ETA: Just realized that I skipped a whole page of posts when I replied...


I think I shall do that.

I'm learning that I like to have a little time to deal with the feelings and think about how best (most dignified and most constructive way) to reply when I'm under pressure.

I'm also thinking that a written record of how things are unfolding might be a good thing for legal reasons, if I ever needed to refer to them at a future point.

Does this make me devious or manipulative? I'm worried that it does and feel a bit down about that.

Originally Posted By: Huddy
My W tried to pull a separation agreement. It was very much in her favour, so I just simply refused to sign it. End of story. You don't have to do anything that you don't want to do anymore. Obviously, protect yourself, but if it isn't in your interests, then don't bother.

I notice you also live in chilly Scotland as well - NDY is also up here, so if you need local advice, I guess we could help with that.



I went along to my local Citizen's Advice Bureau on Thursday for the drop in, but the queue was already so long that I think I would have ended up being late for work (for those of you outside the UK, it somewhere that provides free advice).

I felt a bit defeated having to leave again, but on the plus side, at least I know I have to be there really early to be first/early on in the queue (I'm aiming on being there for 45 minutes before it officially opens next time).

For those of you who don't live here, I *think* we have a thing called 'Legal Separation' here in Scotland (Scots law is different from English law). From what I understand, you still remain married in the eyes of the law, and still have the all the obligations that being married carries. Legal separation is more to do with a separating assets, finances and not being responsible for any future debts that your spouse might accrue?

My H's behaviour is so out of control, that I'm worried about where it might lead him and I think that I would like to protect my own interests and assets.

I might be getting this totally wrong (I'm so, so tired at the moment), but I'm going to ask and find out where I stand.


Originally Posted By: Huddy
The tiredness is a bugger to deal with. TBH, I've been in an in house separation since April and I wouldn't recommend it. I see your H has cleared off - trust me, this will be less stressful than if he was around. Remember though, if you pay for your mortgage/rent you don't have to leave the house, even if your H wants you to.


I have an advantage here I think: the house is in my name. My H is/was never interested in dealing with any of the practicalities (read: responsibilities) in life. I've always done all of them for him as well as for myself, including making up invoices for him, reminding him about contracts he hadn't signed, helping him with his tax return...the list is endless. He never got round to adding his name to the title deeds to the house.

I'm enjoying the stillness and peace and quiet here. His behaviour has been so chaotic, so selfish, so disrespectful of me and my own needs that it's a relief not to have to deal with him on an everyday basis any more. It all happened so gradually and over such a long period of time (4 years or so) that I didn't really know how bad it had become until now.

At the moment, I can barely get out of bed in the morning. But hey, yesterday I dragged myself up, got ready (making myself look the very best I could), walked to work, really embraced my day at work and walked home afterwards.


Originally Posted By: shotgun
Hi focus22. I am sure that you are aware of this but these WAS can be very manipulative. I ultimately realized that my wife was trying to orchestrate a divorce that was favorable to her. I was fortunate enough to have a counselor who advised me to talk to an attorney. It cost me $200 but I gained a lot of information that I would otherwise not had. The decision to file for divorce is a separate issue. Make sure that you arm yourself with information. Information about saving your marriage, rebuilding your life, and the process of ending your marriage if it comes to it.


Ah, really great advice...thank you! Yup, information (and therefore hopefully also knowledge and understanding) are all helpful and positive.

Dealing with the manipulation is so exhausting. The truth that these people peddle is so overwhelming, so forceful, that it feels like you're being knocked flat by some huge tidal wave.

Trying very hard to find every single positive that I can in this whole thing (for my own benefit, I mean) and am hanging on to every single one for dear life.

My gut feeling tells me this is going to get a lot worse before it could start to get better. My H is very high energy anyway, always has been, but over the past 4 years it's tipped into a kind of self-perpetuating mania.

He only stopped just over 3 years ago when he completely fell apart and was hospitalised.

OW has only known him for barely 3 years, so she's never known him any other way than he is now and can't see the difference in him (the difference between his previous healthy high energy existence, and this unhealthy, very self destructive high energy existence).

She also can't see how angry he's become, because she didn't know him before. He thinks that life has been unfair to him and that being married to me has stopped him from having been able to do all the things he's always wanted to do. Needless to say, he's lead an incredibly charmed existence, achieving the most incredible professional success (along with my support and help) and has done more than almost everyone in his position.

She's also a lot younger than us *sigh*

I have a feeling I may be rehashing things I've already said a good few times before. I'm sorry.

Positive hat on now wink


Me: 48, XH: 42
T: 18 years, M: 15 years

EA/PA 1: 6/2012
EA/PA 2: from autumn 2012-present

BD: 5/2013
ILYBNILWY BD & left: 10/2015

OW conceived: 8/2016
Born: 4/2017

H filed: 7/2017
D final: 28/12/2017
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Focus22 don't worry about having rehashed things here. Keep saying it until you feel better. Good to hear that you made yourself look good and walked to work! We have to make ourselves look our best because that is the first thing another human will notice.

I know that you need to talk about your husband and OW but be sure that you are beginning to turn the focus onto yourself. Besides looking your best think about doing something different like joining a club or group or learning a new skill. Maybe do some studying about something that you were always interested in. I have taken up yoga and am in a Spanish language class. Not very good at either but I am meeting some new people and having fun!


M:53 W:47 M:15 years. S:18 S's: 30 & 28 from previous marriage. BD: 3/14 Divorced January 17.
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Sounds amazing, shotgun! Love both of those things myself.

We have access to some very low cost yoga classes through my part time job, so I might investigate that further :))

I have the chance of one or two other major GAL days away for nothing (have to put in a claim for a delayed train journey, so that might give me the cash to do a couple further GAL days away). Will put in that claim today.

So determined to learn as much as I can through all of this.


Me: 48, XH: 42
T: 18 years, M: 15 years

EA/PA 1: 6/2012
EA/PA 2: from autumn 2012-present

BD: 5/2013
ILYBNILWY BD & left: 10/2015

OW conceived: 8/2016
Born: 4/2017

H filed: 7/2017
D final: 28/12/2017
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I like your determination focuss22. There is so much to learn through all of this. I am starting to see all of this as Michele says, as a gift. I have learned things about myself that I might otherwise not have known. I have learned that the number of good people in the world far outweigh the number of bad. I have learned that there are people who I can count on no matter what the circumstances.

Glad to hear that you are interested in yoga classes. My gym membership includes access to all classes offered there. $40 a month to work out all that I want and they offer classes every day. If I don't get there it is my fault. There are some cute girls there as well! That's probably more interesting to me than it is to you smile


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You've actually just reminded me of something, shotgun. Thank you!

It's good to focus on the positive. Had a bit of a conversation about this last night at work (there was a little down time where we all stood around and had a chat). Anyway, one of the guys there was saying he was 'cynical' about life, ambition and any opportunities that might come along.

I could feel myself getting defensive and judging him (nobody noticed though, it was just a totally interior reaction on my part). I don't think I want to ever become 'cynical' about things. It feels like a pretty heavy emotion to carry about with you and I'm not sure how I would manage to get up out of bed in the morning and get through the day, if I didn't feel a huge amount of positivity and hope.

I've been really overwhelmed by people's kindness over the past while. Even just the very lovely things people have said to me the past couple of days have really touched me.

A little eye candy always brightens the day too. I'm learning this as well wink


Me: 48, XH: 42
T: 18 years, M: 15 years

EA/PA 1: 6/2012
EA/PA 2: from autumn 2012-present

BD: 5/2013
ILYBNILWY BD & left: 10/2015

OW conceived: 8/2016
Born: 4/2017

H filed: 7/2017
D final: 28/12/2017
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Yes, you're right about legal separation. If it's to protect yourself, then go ahead. Remember though, it is legally binding and will be operated through the courts and if you want to get any of it changed, you have to involve them in the whole process. Obviously, I don't know your financial situation, but if you can't get legal aid, it's gonna cost.

The house is easier. If it's in your name, and you have no tenancy agreement with your H, you can ask him to stay away (if he ever decided to come over) but I think in a D, you would be required to split the assets 50/50.

NDY is really good on the law side of things. Hope fully he'll pop in and have a word!

Actually, NDY is an excellent guy. He helped me get up from the gutter when I'd been kicked so often. I noticed you're quite 'new' in to this. Don't give up. You really have to start pulling yourself out of the mire in order to help your wounds heal. I'm guessing you've got all the usual things; weight loss, lack of sleep, lack of appetite, emotional mess - the first thing to sort out is the emotional one. You really have to get a handle on getting up, getting dressed and smiling to yourself. I guess you've maybe felt suicidal - don't panic, in six months time (ahem....that'll be me then!) you'll look back and realise that won't help.

It's a big learning curve, but YOU WILL be OK.


M 45 W 52
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BD 6 April 2015
Not living together 4 Dec 2015
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Originally Posted By: focus22

I'm also thinking that a written record of how things are unfolding might be a good thing for legal reasons, if I ever needed to refer to them at a future point.

Does this make me devious or manipulative? I'm worried that it does and feel a bit down about that.


Absolutely not! It makes you rational and thoughtful.

Originally Posted By: focus22

He thinks that life has been unfair to him and that being married to me has stopped him from having been able to do all the things he's always wanted to do.


This is what I heard from H while the A was still active, and for a while afterwards. I haven't heard it in a while now - but the A has supposedly been over for close to a year.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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