Need Help (new thread)

[AU Bob]

old thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2622893#Post2622893

[AU Bob]

If WW/WAS asks for help with her car, what should I do?

[isittoolate]

Tell her to call a mechanic

[Zues126]

Im a little shady about taking spouse's back after being WW. I mean, they have been with someone else, lied and betrayed us, we did not.
Don't get me wrong, I would take mine back, but how do you deal with what they have done, and how do you live with the fact that they could do that to you, the breach of trust, and the fact that they could switch off from you and not have empathy for you?
I don't understand how someone you have shared most of your life with, the person who has fathered or mothered your child can do this.
Social media, family peer pressure, the breakdown of morals, stigma breakdown (birth of the "Cougar"). And I think one of the most damaging, Reality TV programs.
My wife has started going to night clubs since our split, at 46 years old I would have thought that was behind her and was not age appropriate, how wrong I was. I thought I would have a look at the scene for my self, and was shocked. I attended a night club on the coast here and 70% of the women there were over 40, I could not believe it, when I was in my 20's if there was anyone over 30 in a club they were laughed at!
I believe family value has degraded to a point of almost non existence, it's become socially accepted and too easy to just walk away and focus on individual happiness, don't worry about the family unit, as long as your happy it's all good, but what about the fall out from that, the breakdown of the family unit and the suffering of the innocent other half, and children, do the therapists take them into account?
I know I had issues and I accepted that and have taken steps to address them, admittedly it was late into the relationship, but she had issues as well but did not want to work on them, the therapist told her individual happiness is what everyone deserves and I was taking that away from her.

Yes, this is the reality we live in. It stinks. But the sooner you accept reality the better.

Time for you to spend 100% of your energy building a life that you want to live for yourself. Your turn to be selfish. I hear you asking about FB pages. Don't worry about how your decisions will impact her. The best thing you can do is to detach and build your new life. The more you use her predicted reactions as a compass the more pain this will cause you and the more you will enable her destructive choices. Instead just decide- what would your life look like if you KNEW she would NEVER look back. Now start building it!

With one catch- no female companionship. You don't get to do anything that a married man shouldn't. Not fair? Well, what's not fair would be for you to judge her for her choices and then make similar choices. My motto has always been "act with the character you wish she had". Trust me, you are no where NEAR ready to be close to another woman. That's pure self medication, there is no growth in that. And you'd be slamming the door on any chances of R.

This isn't a sprint. There is no move that's going to win her back, nor is there any insight that will stop you from hurting. It is long, painful, lonely walk. And it doesn't lead to R. It leads to you accepting the loss, and finding yourself healthy and strong at the end. I'm not going to pretend that the loss won't hurt forever. It will. But it won't run your life.

I am still dealing with pain and anger, although probably like 5% of what it once was. What helped me was realizing this: If I couldn't be happy with my life, as it is TODAY...with my children, my job, my friends, my hobbies, and all of the blessings God has given me...if I STILL looked up to the sky and said "I can't possibly accept or be happy with this, I refuse to be satisfied with the life you've given me unless I get the marriage I want"...if I was really THAT unappreciative...well, in that case God throwing me a woman wouldn't possibly make me happy anyway.

What will your single life look like in 6 months?

[hotwheelsaust]

Good comment Zues.
Exactly isittoolate.

[AU Bob]

Thanks. Zues126.
You are very good at explaining, you have put it all into perspective! Being human makes us open to doing things that stem from emotion, as we all know here that is not always the right and proper thing to do, it leads to mistakes that we regret later, but we still do it.
This is why I am here, for the support and the strength you people can provide for some one in my sitch.
When I think about what I am doing and have lost my way you guys come to my rescue and stop me from making more mistakes.
I love all of you for helping me with my life decisions.
Thank you all.

[AU Bob]

I need some advice!
When my wife walked out she did it while i was at work. She told our daughter that was living at home before she did it, obviously she was shocked and upset, she packed some things and went to stay with one of my other daughters, she was there for 8 weeks until things settled down and she decided to come home and live with me.
This has had it moments her being 16 im sure most of you would know what its like for them at this age!
She has been spending a lot of time with her mother for the last 6 weekends all day and staying over. I have asked her to do stuff but she seems reluctant. I think it is because her mother is spending money on her and taking her places. Buying her affection?
I think my daughter has put the goings on of her mothers relationship with OM out of her mind. She knows about him and dose not like it, but it dose not seem to affect the relationship with her mom.
I am concerned about what to do. I would like to have quality time with her instead of just talking to her at the dinner table and when im taking her out for driving lessons in the afternoon.
I feel her mother is trying to buy her affections and by doing this in time hope that things with OM will be forgotten or blow over!
How do i explain to her i would like more quality time with her in weekends without putting her mum down? I feel her mother is trying to manipulate her.

[AU Bob]

Any advice?

[Zues126]

I need some advice!
She has been spending a lot of time with her mother for the last 6 weekends all day and staying over. I have asked her to do stuff but she seems reluctant. I think it is because her mother is spending money on her and taking her places. Buying her affection?
I think my daughter has put the goings on of her mothers relationship with OM out of her mind. She knows about him and dose not like it, but it dose not seem to affect the relationship with her mom.
I am concerned about what to do. I would like to have quality time with her instead of just talking to her at the dinner table and when im taking her out for driving lessons in the afternoon.
I feel her mother is trying to buy her affections and by doing this in time hope that things with OM will be forgotten or blow over!
How do i explain to her i would like more quality time with her in weekends without putting her mum down? I feel her mother is trying to manipulate her.

Very tough situation. My children aren't at this age and I don't pretend to know how difficult it is just yet. I'll take a shot at some advice even if it's not ideal.

I think right now you have to back burner your emotional needs and instead focus on rising above it.

I can imagine that it's hard to see D16 appearing to take WW's side...minimizing her affair or turning a blind eye...being taken in by her spin on the story...maybe even buying in to the spew that WW is saying about you...and being bought off by flash and glitter. That has to be tough. I can imagine the desire to win her to your side, to set the record straight, to defend yourself, and even to enlist her as an ally to help shoot down OM and to distance herself from WW to help demonstrate the consequence of her choices.

But while those are natural desires, those won't help you right now. Anything you do to encourage that will backfire in so many ways. D16 and WW will think you're using D16 as a pawn, WW will justify her opinions of you, and it will push them away farther.

You MUST find other ways to meet your emotional needs, and find other ways to feel validated, so none of this is perceived.

As for D16...it's not about what you want from her. It's about making sure she gets what she needs from you. Right now she doesn't think she needs anything, but you get to show her how a man leads his family through a crisis, and how he handles injustices. Stand tall. Lead with poise. Make the time you have together quality, and let her bloom in the sunlight of your strength.

That time together may be limited right now, and maybe she has fallen under the spell of WW...but this season will change, probably sooner than later. There will be a time when she looks back and sees the walk you walked. You have the rest of your life with your D if you play your cards right, and she will come back to dad for sure, as long as you don't do anything to drive her away for good.

Just my two cents. Sorry you have to deal with this my man.

[tl2]

Just wanted to add an amen to this:

As for D16...it's not about what you want from her. It's about making sure she gets what she needs from you. Right now she doesn't think she needs anything, but you get to show her how a man leads his family through a crisis, and how he handles injustices. Stand tall. Lead with poise. Make the time you have together quality, and let her bloom in the sunlight of your strength.

[AU Bob]

Thanks. Zeus.
Words of wisdom well recieved! It is tough. My daughter is torn between supporting me and the mother she loves. Sometimes the maternal bond is so strong it is almost possible to falter. I cant blame her for that. It just is very hard to accept for me cause of the deciet her mother is continuing to cloud over her, and the damage it is doing and tjis may not fully be understood until D is much older. 17 is too young to be able to really understand the gravity of it all, and i seem to have lapses of understanding she could not be able to, i need to take her age into account when i think about this. If that makes sense.
This is one of the most difficult things to accept and understand, she is suffering as much if not more than me. I really need to remember this.

[MrBond]

"I think it is because her mother is spending money on her and taking her places. Buying her affection? "

Mind reading on your part.

Did you used to go and spend time with your D alone before? If not, then I can see why she would be uncomfortable about it now.

[AU Bob]

Yes we spent time together. When her mother bailed she sort of distanced herself from all of us. I think she has only really started to take any sort of interest in D17 because she is less judgemental about OM partially through bloking it out and not really accepting her mother could do this. The older ones are more wise to the world and know and accept what their mother is up to and have confronted her about it. WW is not as comfortable around them so she had thrown herself headlong at D17.
Thus is why im a bit upset about it all, its almost like she is hijacking her of me to release her from guilt.

[AU Bob]

Bit of drama on weekend.
I am still living in the family home with my D, the house still has renovations that need to be done. WW is living at a friends house and has been for six months. I have stopped working on the house and have concentrated on GAL, witch has only really taken off in the last month or so. I have been spending increasingly more time on my self. This past weekend I attended a party Friday night, spent the next day working on a pickup truck I am restoring to use for work, and Sunday I spent the day with a mate, got home 8pm Sunday night
D17 was with her mother all weekend, and yesterday morning her mother started complaining that we have not been doing anything to the house, this upset D quite a bit, D said why have you not come round to do anything? and WW replied that she felt she was not welcome, I find this silly I have given WW keys to get in, and have at not time told her she is not welcome, I have only stipulated that my bedroom is private and I did not want her in there, all other areas are ok.
I think WW is getting a bit annoyed that I am starting to move on and am GAL back. She has been going out all the time and spending weekends sitting by her sisters pool drinking martini's and vodka's going out for dinners and nights out. I think it's a bit unfair to wine to my D about work not getting done. she can come paint and do what ever she likes when ever she likes. When she has shown up unannounced I have never said she is unwelcome.
I think my GAL is starting to rattle her, Im not sitting around moping anymore.
What are your thoughts

[MrBond]

Thoughts are that you peppered your post with mindreading. You don't EXACTLY know why she's doing something or feeling something. When you do that, you are going to misread alot.

Just continue focussing on yourself.

[AU Bob]

That's what I have been trying to do. I am just a bit upset because she should have spoken to me not lumped it on my D.

[MrBond]

Then talk to her about it. did you actually hear her say that?

[AU Bob]

No. My daughter told me. Yes your right. I should ask myself. Just wish she would start to communicate

[AU Bob]

Feelings of resentment are starting to sneak in. Is this normal?. It's been six months since she walked out. I still have feelings for her but I am starting to not like her for what she has done.

[dday]

Aub, not sure what is "normal" but my emotions on my W run the gamut. I love mine, but I don't like her right now. Not doing the Christmas tree with my boys put a very bad taste in my mouth. But, I know it too will pass. So will your feelings of resentment. Or at least they will mellow a bit.

Good luck and keep fighting the good fight!

[Zues126]

In my experience...as long as WW still looks like the only outlet to meet your emotional needs, you will feel loving to her. Once you learn to meet those needs elsewhere and don't 'need' her anymore, then you will find that she doesn't look as attractive as you will associate her with the pain and destruction she caused.

So to your point, yes, it is normal. I think it is healthy as this means you're being honest with yourself about how you feel.

The only thing to be aware of is that how you feel is just that- how you feel. This really shouldn't impact your personal or long term goals. Remember, the only reason WW left was because she followed her feelings. When she wasn't getting her emotional needs met through you and began to feel anger, she took that to mean you were incapable of meeting them and that you two weren't right for each other (also because the person that was meeting those needs started appearing noble and good through those rose tinted glasses).

As long as you understand that feelings follow circumstances then go ahead and process your feelings, and actually celebrate your progress towards detachment. Just make sure to steer the ship based on your values and beliefs.

[AU Bob]

Yes I still feel the loss, but I am not blaming myself as much anymore. I know I could have been a better husband, but I think the things she did contributed partially to my attitude. I pretty much blamed myself for it all initially.

[dday]

I did the same. I went from: it's all my fault , to it's her fault, and now to we both screwed things up, but I'm not quitting. Who knows where I'll be next, but it changes. You are doing as well as you can right now. Keep it up

[AU Bob]

Yes
I have got to the stage where I don't really want to see her. I mean I still have the desire to R but I feel it's better to distance myself and not be there.
I have the dilemma of Christmas day coming up. We used to open our stuff at our place and then go to WW's family gathering after. Now my daughter wants to have it at her place and they are boycotting WW's gathering. I don't really want to be at D's place with WW being there, but if I don't go my kids will be upset. I just don't want to be around WW I don't want to be her friend because of what she has done, I can't really pretend to be her friend.

[sandi2]

Now my daughter wants to have it at her place and they are boycotting WW's gathering.

What do you mean? They don't want her going to her usual family get-together?

[AU Bob]

Hi Sandi2
We used to have our family opening at our place and then go over to the wife's family gathering. My children do not want to go to her family's gathering, they are just staying home.

[AU Bob]

Sandi2..?

[MrBond]

Your feelings will continue to go up and down until you start really concentrating on yourself and let her go. Not giving up, but knowing that she's not the center of your world any more.

That's why it's called a rollercoaster.

[sandi2]

Okay, I just needed clarification.

[AU Bob]

Well, it's my 50th birthday today, and I'm feeling good about it.
I'm in a bit of a transitional stage at the present, I still want to reconcile, but I am in two minds. One, I want it, and two I should just move on, it's been 7 months now, and I know some of you here have been working on R for years, I really admire the faith, hope and fortitude you guys have.
Got a happy birthday text from WW, WAW, and my feelings about it are mixed, I just replied "Thanks" and said no more.
I,m really tired with the uncertainty of it all, not knowing what to do all the time, worrying about making mistakes, and the hassle's with the family dynamics, It' very tiresome.
We have Christmas coming up and I want to give her a card at least, I don't hate her, I still have feelings for her, but it is not as a wife at this point, it' almost like I don't know her anymore but I would like to be with her, if that make sense, any ideas what I should write in the card?.
I don't speak to her much, I have withdrawn from contact as much as I can, I'm in two minds about this as well, should I try to talk to her,( she doesn't really contact me about anything)or just stay away?

[2point0]

Happy Birthday AU Bob

[AU Bob]

Thanks

[Jpeg]

AuBob - I know that feeling - my H just wants to do everything as normal. Plus his new extra adventures in OWs land. And everyone is just suppose to be OK with it. Well I'm not!!!!! So Im taking kids to an all inclusive resort on a beach far far far south of here

[AU Bob]

Yes I struggle with the be friends bit, how can you be a friend with some one who rejected you?

[AU Bob]

What are other peoples thoughts on this. Should you try to be friends or not?

[Vapo]

Hell no. It would only signal to her that you are ok with it... What next? When she has OM problems, you are going to comfort her?

[focus22]

I got this from my H as well. The 'we'll be friends' thing.

Erm, no thanks.

[Scrant]

Hi. I can only copy and paste advice from Sotto to me. It helped me when I felt like giving up and being BFF.

I certainly don't think being her friend is the way to go if you hope to reconcile. If you think about it - you become her 'friend' again in the hope of reconciling. She is then able to think - Oh Scrant is okay with what's happening here- we're all okay with this. I get to spend time with OM, and my family. My R with S is even better than it was before. Hey, this is better for everyone actually. I made a good move - It all enables and supports your W's poor decisions.
Best wishes

[focus22]

Scrant, so wanted to like that reply :o)

[AU Bob]

Yes. It's all a bit confusing. I seem to be accepting that she is not here anymore and am going out and having a good time again. To tell the trueth i am starting to understand im free and can do what I want! I spose thats what she has been feeling?

[Vapo]

Just take it easy m8. It takes time, it really does.

Stay strong buddy...

[AU Bob]

yes
I am a bit lost at the present I seem to be developing feelings for a female co worker and am struggling with it. WAW has not spoken to me for quite a while and seems to be quite happy with her lot at the moment.
I am on the fence with what to do, do I cut my losses and try with the new person, or stay strong and wait for something that may not ever be again? Im 50 now and time is not on my side.

[Sotto]

Hi Bob, I can understand you feeling a little lost, but please be aware that bouncing into a new R with a female colleague is a really poor idea. Ask yourself honestly, if my W turned around now and wanted to reconcile, would I jump at it? If the answer is yes (and my guess is it is) it would be unfair to bring another person into that mix.

Frankly, if your female colleague has any sense, she'll give you a wide berth right now (and I don't intend any offense here.) I think this is happening because you are desperate, hurt and needy - and any affirmation from another woman is like finding water in the desert.

I think you need to gather up your strength, draw back from your colleague, and throw yourself into GAL with a non-romantic focus. That will be far healthier for you than bouncing into a romantic entanglement. In fact, google 'entanglement,' and read about what that means.

One thing I read on another thread a while ago has really stayed with me. It was by a guy who said his greatest regret in all of this was causing great hurt to a third person due to his own great pain. Like you, he had been tempted by someone else in the early stages of his sitch - and in causing her hurt, he hurt himself too.....

Take care my friend....you can do this x

[Vapo]

^^^^^What Sotto said...^^^^^

Trust me, you are no where near ready for a new relationship. I get it that you are hurting and though it would be nice to get some warmth and comfort and TLC. But it's wrong.

Because you are not thinking straight. Give yourself time...

[AU Bob]

Hi Sotto
Yes, I understand what your saying. It sux cause I am in a really good place at the present, first time I actually feel good and am happy, I am starting to not worry about her at all.
At the end of year outing with my work friends I actually started dancing again, Its been years since I could do that! and you could not wipe the smile off my face.
I am loving life again>

[AU Bob]

My daughter invited me to go to a christmas carol night in a local park. It looks like WAW has invited herself. What should i do. At this stage im happy not to see her at all. What should I say to my dsughter?

[Vapo]

Hmm, I say you listen to your intuition. I would say go, but avoid the wife. She does not get to play family...

[MrBond]

"I am a bit lost at the present I seem to be developing feelings for a female co worker and am struggling with it. "

That's a typical rebound relationship. So your 30 years together and the short separation has caused you to fall in love again so quick? Think it through.

Right now your feelings of lack of self-esteem and want for validation of your own feelings are causing a void in you. You want something or anyone to fill that void. This will actually be the test of what kind of MAN you are. Do you really need a woman to make you happy?

[AU Bob]

Hi Mr Bond
No i still would like to R but the things my WW WAW has been doing show me that she has no intention of coming back.
I have found out that she is trying to buy our house out from under me by refinancing and taking over the mortgage, She has not told me this i found out from some one else, she knew i was continuing with the renovations and has said nothing. I would have been doing this and she would just kick me out?
Is this some one i should pin my future on?
Im really not sure?

[AU Bob]

Is this sort of behavior of hers normal. I mean do WW WAW do this, and can you still R after that?

[AU Bob]

?

[sandi2]

Obviously they do it. If people can get D and then remarry, I would say they could R after almost anything.

[Sotto]

Hi Bob, did you read either DB or DR my friend? If you have, you'll see that this is just the kind of behaviour to expect from people who have checked out of the M and believe you'll fall in with all their plans to 'move on.' But people can and do reconcile after the most difficult circumstances and you shouldn't lose hope if you want to stand for your marriage.

However, it is important to get some good legal advice and protect your own interests in any future changes that may happen.

Take care x

[Vapo]

Aussie friend,

normal went out the window at BD. So pretty much anything goes. as long as there is love in your heart, there is hope. But have no expectations of anything. Do not expect her to snap out of it. You are in for a long haul. It is not a quick dip on the North straddie, it's Brizzie to Cairns, To Broome, to Perth, to Melbourne, to Darwin, to Broome,.... You get the picture...

And don't keep an eye on her, or you'll get crazy. Stepping back is the single most important thing you can do...


Stay strong buddy, you are not alone in this crazy whirlwind...

[AU Bob]

Thanks for all your support.
Its only been the last month or so that I think I hve been succesfull in detaching, up till then just the sight of her was enough to make me anxious.
I can now put her out of my mind for longer periods, and I am less worried about what she is up too. At this stage i am focusing on myself a lot more, its just when I hear things from the family grapevine that could change my present circumstances that the anxiety slips back in.
Then I have to come here for guidance.
Christmas is the next hurdle for me now, then new years.

[NateG79]

I know it's confusing man, but keep your head up.

[AU Bob]

Thanks
Time and GAL really dose help. Its the things like making a decision on selling the house or what to do with it. These are the difficult things, when you are doing your best to leave them behind, and do your own thing the spectre of it hangs over you, i have my D17 living with me and i am responsible for her as well.
At this stage I dont really want to have anything to do with WAW WW i dont even want to talk to her.
Detatching is very difficult and when you do feel strong about it it is quite empowering, you get your confidence back and your personality starts to come back. I am at that stage now, i know i can live without her.

[AU Bob]

Is this normal

[Vapo]

Yep, perfectly normal and as it should be. Bear in mind, you will cycle (that means, that there will be bad days), but the cycles will be less and less severe and there will be more and more good days inbetween them. Just take it slowly and don't be too hard on yourself.

[AU Bob]

So how long can this process take. When do you call it a day and start to look for some one else?
Now i have started to detach I have no idea what she is thinking. I have not spoken to her for 2 months. She seems to be quite happy about it all.
On new years eve I have been invited to spend it with some friends, i am assuming she will want to be with my daughters, should i go with my friends or stay and be with her and D's ? What to do

[Vapo]

Buddy,

do what feels right. I would not spend the time with the W, but that's just me...

How long does this process take you ask? At least a year IMO, anything sooner would be a rebound relationship and that is wrong, because you would be getting into a relationship for totally the wrong reasons (to lessen the hurt, to scratch that itch, to take the edge off,...). You have to heal first and then start making new connections. And healing takes different times for different people...

[AU Bob]

Its been 7 months since she walked out. But the EA started over a year ago, still not sure if it is a PA or not, kids have asked her numerous times and she denies it, but that seems to be the norm with cheaters.
Im in a better place now, but that's been fairly recent.

[AU Bob]

D17 got home this afternoon and said that mum said OM has a new girlfriend. Is this an attempt at taking the heat out of her suspicions about what her mother is up to?

[AU Bob]

Any opinions?
Please be patient with me, i am still waiting for my copy of DR to turn up.
So if I am asking questions that would seem a bit ignorant this is why.
I am still trying to figure if I actually want to R.
I feel I need to take into account my future happiness as well, I mean if she is still the same and dose not want to make genuine changes for the sake of the relationship, i may be better off without her anyway.
These are the thoughts that have come to me as I have become emotionally stronger as time moves on.
This is why I am here, I know it takes time, but that dose not stop you from trying to understand where you are at!

[Zues126]

My opinions are as follows:

Let your W go. You can't control her. She may or may not come back. She may or may not become a partner you could reconnect with. If your happiness is tied to her behavior you will go crazy, and you will blame her for your unhappiness. So just let go and live your own life happily.

Don't burn bridges. You are in NO position to date. You are in no position to make decisions about the future of your M. You are emotional, needy, in pain, and desperate for something to fill the hole in your life. Don't put garbage in that hole. Learn to fill it on your own with GAL activity, little by little. That is how you will be able to proceed in a healthy way, whatever that path may look like down the road. As long as you feel your sitch is unlivable that is a clue that you are being reactive and likely making bad choices. Make your sitch livable first, then you'll know you're in control of your life.

This all boils down to DETACHING and GAL. Nothing new. Rebound relationships and emotional lifelong decisions trying to change the lay of the land so you will feel differently are exactly the WRONG path.

You are married, that means you stand by your vows regardless of your feelings, and when she's not strong enough to hold the M together you step up. You can't both crumble. My mantras are "act with the character I wish she had" and "I can't expect her to act with character if I can't". The second one also translates to "I can't expect her to transcend her dependence on OM in a healthy way if I can't transcend my dependence on her in a healthy way".

So let me ask AUBob, can you just let her go on her path, avoid lifelong decision about your future, and avoid any bridge burning, and lead by example for 3-6-12 months? Or is your neediness and pain going to rule your future so that you rationalize making excuses and breaking your vows?

[AU Bob]

Thank you Zues
Thats what i needed to hear and understand.
I am weak at the moment and like you said looking for someone to lean on. I caught up with BIL yesterday who I have not heard from in 6 months, my SIL text me for my birthday and BIL said he wanted to catch up I was able to talk to him for a few hours and never brought up my sitch, so I am getting stronger.
I have thrown myself into the restoration of my pickup truck, and visit friends quite a bit, my social outings to the pub have increased quite a bit as well, i now attend a local trivia night once a week, go to the gym everyday, and spend loads of time with daughters and grandchildren, so my life is quite full.
I just miss having a life partner!

[AU Bob]

WAW dropped in to give D17 some money yesterday, spoke to her for a bit I seem to be getting over my anxiety when I am around her now. I felt quite comfortable speaking to her, she seemed to be more anxious than me.
Dose this mean I am beginning to dethatch?
I seem to feel a lot more confident. I am starting to feel free again, free of my fears.

[AU Bob]

Im starting to get a little worried and dissapointed.
I have my D17 living with me. I have to take care of her and her day to day needs. WAW has been increasingly comming and takeing her away for most of the weekends, i have not been too worried about it until now. I have noticed that D has been saying things that make me think she is trying to make her look like she has done nothing wrong, justification.
D was talking to me the other day and said that Her mother was telling her about OM's new girlfriend, it's news to me, there is none, it's her mother! Just another attempt to cover it up and take the heat off her.
The other thing was D now has an opinion on falling out of love with some one, every one has a right to an opinion, but there is always two sides to the story, and she dosent want to hear mine.
Im starting to wonder if she is better off with her. Im getting a bit down on it because im doing all the parenting hard slog and WAW is taking her away and getting all the social stuff and starting to fill her head with all sorts of lies and she is falling for it.
Im starting to wonder if i should just get moving on selling the house and getting out get my own place and let her go live with her mother, let her take the responsibility, and not just the good times.
I find it hard to get her to do much with me, mom takes her shopping and buys her stuff and spends loads of money on her, i cant compete with that.
D seems to have forgotten what her mother is doing with OM.
What should i do?

[Zues126]

Your issues with WW have nothing to do with daughter. Your relationship with D is totally separate. Do NOT use your D to meet your needs to be validated. You are there to be her parent and meet her needs.

She is a teenage girl. Of course she is going to be opinionated, and what you say will be stupid to her. I wouldn't worry about winning her over to your way of thinking.

Like most DB, the trick is to lead with actions, not words.

Instead of telling her that it's wrong to end an M because you 'fall out of love', just act it. Stand by your M. Do it quietly, without telling WW or D (remember WW needs to feel she's lost you at some point). But don't date other women, or make your life revolve around your sitch. GAL, take care of yourself, and set an example. The fact that she's confused means she needs your example more than ever.

Years down the road she'll come to you for R advice, or at least will remember back to how you acted. It will make a difference. THAT's why you're doing it as a parent. And for yourself it's because it's the right thing for a man to do. Not for immediate gratification. If this was about immediate gratification than you're no different than WW.

Bottom line, do what you know the right thing for a man to do is, and let your actions speak for you. You can't force anyone to listen to those actions, but you at least have to act them.

[AU Bob]

WAW called last night and asked if i had some anti inflametry tablets her arthritis had flared up and her joints had swollen. Her car just ran out of registration and she cant drive it.
I said ok but i would have to drop in later had a couple things to do, i went up about an hour later and dropped the pills off, i told her i only did it because she was in pain and left straight away, she said than you.
Should i have done this? Or should i just have told her I was busy.

[Zues126]

WAW called last night and asked if i had some anti inflametry tablets her arthritis had flared up and her joints had swollen. Her car just ran out of registration and she cant drive it.
I said ok but i would have to drop in later had a couple things to do, i went up about an hour later and dropped the pills off, i told her i only did it because she was in pain and left straight away, she said than you.
Should i have done this? Or should i just have told her I was busy.

Yes, it was the right thing to do. I might have skipped the comment about why but no biggie.

If she asks again I'd probably do it a second time...but then I would let her know that since she has decided she no longer wants you as a husband you cannot continue to contort your life around her needs. That she needs to find alternative ways to obtain her medicine and while you empathize any pain she might suffer you will not be able to be assist should she put herself in this position again.

Unlikely to come up again, but I think this makes sense.

Well played, glad you didn't dote on her and try to be her nurse!

[AU Bob]

I think i may have been a victim of temprature checking. My WAW asked me to take her some meds for her arthritus because her car was unregistered on thursday night, i just saw her driving it too the gym.
Cant do that if its unregoed!
Do you think she was checking to see if she can still pull my strings?

[Zues126]

It's possible. Don't worry too much about it. Pretty much a non-event. Who knows why she does what she does. As long as you know why you do what you do.

If someone screams for help that they are stuck under their bookshelf and you show up that doesn't mean you're a puppet, it means you're a responsible and compassionate human. Now if they do that twice you can let them know you won't be responding to future pleas.

[AU Bob]

Yeah
Still early days for me got a lot to learn

[AU Bob]

Hi Everyone
Hope you all have a safe and enjoyable christmas!
Bit quiet on my front, limbo sux, having to basicly put your relationship or potential relationship on hold, leaves a bit of a void.
I still have to get my head around it.
Happy Christmas!!!!!!

[AU Bob]

Hi Everyone
Big day for me tomorow christmas morning at my daughters place.
WAW WW will be there, have not spoken to her at length for a few months now, and not really that fussed about it. My GAL
efforts have been paying off and my social and sporting life has really started to kick in, I now go out at least twice a week to gatherings and nights out.
My anxiety levels are almost non existant i still have bouts but i dont dwell on it like i used to, GAL has really helped with this, my confidence has returned and with it my self worth.
I feel I am in an intermediate stage, I am starting to question if I really want to reconcile, I know its only been 7 months since she walked out, although her relationship with the EA partner was probably a few months before that, do you add that to the time frame?
I am now looking at the differences and compatability of our M going back a decade or so, people change in 30 years and even though you live and love them, they are different people from the first years of your M.
I have started to understand this only recently, and it is making a difference to the way I think now, i think my social gatherings and the things I am doing with my life now have opened my eyes to a different way of life, its still early days and I miss close female togetherness quite badly, I feel happier in another way.
The togetherness thing is hard to loose, when you have had 32 years with some one you get into a whats familiar is good comfort zone, I think in long term relationships this can become a problem, you get so comfortable with it you take it for granted and stop working on it because you have a false sense of security that it will always be there, I think this is what happened to us in so many ways.
I still love my wife as much as the first day I met her, and probably always will, she is the mother of my children, and somone who helped me through life to where I am today, we had good times and bad but thats life. I never would have done what she did, but I am not her and I dont know whats going through her head. I spose she is on her journey to find out what she needs from life from this day forward and im not in those plans. I did think about it once in the past but i realised life without her was not something i could live with, I should have realised then that we needed to do something about reconnecting in a loving way, the false sence of security allowed me to be complacent and i did nothing, hindsight is a bitch it dogs you!
I spose what I am saying is, I am starting to understand the big picture. Our M has run a course, and if we were to R it would have to be a new begining, the time apart has allowed us to explore our life choise's and where we want to go from here. If she says to me in the future we can try again I would treat her as if i was meeting her for the first time.
This is why at this point, I am wondering if I really want or need to go there. I have the opportunity to have a freas start too and there may be someone out there who is more compatable, im on the fence witch way to fall?
It will be interesting for myself to see what I am like while around her tomorrow, i hope i can portray myself as a strong confident man and show her I am moving on!
Happy Christmas!!!! N

[Zues126]

This is why at this point, I am wondering if I really want or need to go there. I have the opportunity to have a freas start too and there may be someone out there who is more compatable, im on the fence witch way to fall?

I believe compatibility is a pile of bull$hit people use to justify divorce.

Yes, you can go to extremes. If one person wants 5 children raised catholic in Chicago and wants 12 cats, and the other person wants to live in Nepal and live without children, is allergic to cats, and wants to just walk the land...yeah, that could be tough. So people can pitch these arguments like it justifies the compatibility myth.

The problem is the people that use this example aren't getting divorced because of these reasons. They're getting divorced because they want the benefits of a relationship without putting in the work, so they'll tear apart a family because there's another person that is willing to dangle some emotional bait for them that seems more easily available.

Bottom line, anyone woman that mentions compatibility with me clearly wouldn't be compatible with me

It will be interesting for myself to see what I am like while around her tomorrow, i hope i can portray myself as a strong confident man and show her I am moving on!

Like they say, if you want to paint a perfect picture, just make yourself perfect, then paint naturally.

Live each day doing your best to become the man you feel you should be. The right people will get the right impression.

*******************

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[AU Bob]

Hehe
Thanks Zues, you made me smile and laugh.
Yes your right she just did not want to put any effort in. The compatibility is an analogy of mine, I do think about what went wrong, because we have never really sat down to get to the real nitty gritty of it you know the root cause. This one of the reasons why I think there is a bit of MLC happening, I think she just wants to do what she wants and a committed marriage wont allow that, easier to just blame someone else and take the easy way out. Having a shoulder to cry on makes it even better someone to justify the final decision to quit, even though the person attached to that shoulder has a vested interest in making sure that happens(OM)
She's on a journey where that takes her who knows, I am weighing up how long I am going to wait to let her find out. Putting that side of my life on hold is something im not sure about when enough is enough.
I will enjoy tomorrow I think I am at the stage now that I can do that.

[AU Bob]

I had a good day. I think i managed to project a new stronger me to WAW i spoke to her a little bit and felt quite comfortable, not anxious quite calm.
I was able to mix with the extended family and friends and show her no attention.
She got me a present (didn't get me one last year) i didn't get her one.

[ARose]

I love how Zues tells it like it is. I think I might steal that quote, about compatibility and just taking the easy emotional bait. That is one of the most profoundly insightful things I have read about this topic in a long time.

AU Bob, What present did she get you? I am glad you had a good day. My H got me a guitar. Hard to know what to think, such mixed messages. I like the guitar though, now I need to learn to play.

[AU Bob]

Was not much. Just some headphones.
Wow a guitar, thats not just a normal gift, did you mention to him anything about that would have influenced that gift?
You need to get stuck into it and become really good at it show him you can do it and impress his socks off, go for it girl!

[AU Bob]

Hi People
Well its been 8 months now since she walked out.
Not much has changed. My GAL efforts have helped me tremendously I think this has had an impact on her, it's bloody hard work trying to figure out what the right thing to do is and it all takes a long time to accomplish, thats the hard part, you put in all this effort and there is no guarentee it will come to anything!
What experiances have others had in this time frame?

[AU Bob]

????

[AU Bob]

Well christmas and new years has come and gone. WW turned up at christmas get together at D23's house, i just spoke to her if she spoke to me kept it to a minimum and short responces. She got me a gift i got her nothing just lime she got me nothing the year before. She took photo's of me with our grand daughter witch i thought was odd, i almost asked her not too.
I don't know where she was on new years.
I am at the point where i am not too worried about her much.
I think im ready to move on.
D25 is not talking to her, she said to her she spends more time with OM's family and is not happy about it.
These WW realy do change don't they!

[Vapo]

No mate, you are not ready to move on, not by a long shot. You are hurting and hurting badly and you would do just about anything to make the hurt go away.

The hurt will go away, but it will take time. You really need to focus on yourself and do something just for yourself. What are you doing for fun? Do you go shooting rabbits? Do you surf?

Stay strong buddy...

[AU Bob]

Yeah.
I go to a trivia night at the club every wed night, most fridays i go out to a pub band and do a bit of dancing with female and male friends, i go to the gym almost every day, sunday morning i take out my old 56 vw beetle for breakfast and coffee, I cycle my vintage racing bike with some buddy's, and I am rebuilding my hot rod pick up truck.
So my life is pretty full at this time, I am really quite enjoying it!

[Ancaire]

I've been looking through the MLC threads this morning, looking for inspiration and guidance. I found this little gem, and I'm going around sharing it with everyone I think it may be helpful to. Sometimes everything just gets to be too much, and I forget where I'm supposed to be focusing. It really helped me redefine where I want to go, and how I'm going to get there. I hope it helps you a bit, too.

Consider the DB basic principals....

1) Healthy boundaries.
2) Better communication
3) GAL
4) "act as if"
5) Change how you look at things
6) Keep a positive outlook
7) Personal growth
8) Learning more about you so that you can be all that you can be.
9) Learning to avoid "cheese less tunnels"
10) Love and respect

These principals can be used in all facets of ones life. When used properly....they truly can change you from the INSIDE OUT.

[AU Bob]

Thanks Ancaire
It's very difficult, you suffer and suffer and they seem to be having a wonderful time. I think she is in the anger stage at this time. I am getting my life back and moving on, not really sure what's going on in her head, I thought taking pictures of me with Penny (GD) at Xmas was a bit strange, I have noticed her attitude toward me has changed, she is not so sure of herself around me now.
Its been 8 months since she walked out, not sure what happens at this stage?

[Ancaire]

No way to tell...just keep your focus on you for now - it's really all you can do.

Trust the process...it really does work.

[AU Bob]

Thanks Ancaire
I'm really trying, I just miss having a girl to do things with. going to the movies and seeing couples is very difficult. 8 months without female closeness is the pits for me.

[Zues126]

Bob, on my thread I talked about the 'one year rule'. That you don't under any circumstanced date for one year after the D is FINALIZED. Not when you separate. Not when you stop having sex. Not when you move into a different bedroom. But from when the divorce is final.

Frankly your neediness is very destructive. You haven't moved on. You simply don't like the way you feel. You feel bad. At first this drove you to think "I need WAW back so I don't feel this way". Then it was plain that wouldn't happen, so now you're like, "great, whatever, now I need someone else so I don't feel this way".

The fact that you're "over" WAW doesn't mean you're emotionally healed, it just means that the target of your desperate neediness has shifted from her to someone else. If you started dating now you would be desperately searching for a new relationship to save you from the pain you're in. The problem is that in 12-24 months when you aren't in pain anymore you'll look at the person you're with wonder why, because right now you've got pain goggles (like beer goggles) that make anyone look like a perfect ten. And in the process you'll burn bridges with WAW, stunt your own healing and cause your pain to last much longer, hurt someone else that doesn't understand they are being USED as a medication, and worst of all you may end up in a sticky relationship for a long time that's worse than what you just came from. But you go right ahead.

Bottom line, you have brought this up so many times I don't think you'll be strong enough to follow this rule. Still, I will tell you this like giving a truth dart to a WAS. So I will close by saying this: You allowing yourself to be driven by short term desires is no different than your wife walking, and frankly BOTH attitudes are equally disdainful and are the root of why relationships are failing these days. Suck it up, take it on the chin, and act with character.

[AU Bob]

Yes your right. I am weak. and it dose not stop me from thinking about it. It's better fro me to come on here and get slapped about a bit and get a dose of reality check, because I am weak it gives me a bit of support.
I think it depends on the people around you too, I have some saying to me it's over you need to move on find some one else, then you have you guys who are like me and living it they say you have to hold on. I should listen to the people who are living it.
Just keep getting stuck into me Zeus, I know I keep failing but your helping me, Thanks
Can you give me a link to the thread your talking about.

[Zues126]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...357#Post2637357

Better to know your weakness, own it, and manage it, than to fail thinking you are stronger than you are. Vent away and keep posting. PS- new thread soon!

[AU Bob]

WAW came around to pick up D17 to take her shopping. She wanted to come in for some reason, I was in my bedroom reading and stayed there, she came in and started talking to me and said to me I didnt have to stay in the room while she eas there, and said she would make us coffee, she said a few thing I cant remember and at the end of it said she wished we could be friends, i just said no i dont think so and said I would move out to the kitchen with her.
When we started talking it was just about general stuff and how we were doing and what we were doing, i explained to her basicly how I now have a life that is satisfying and I am at peace. All the regular activitys I do and my nights out for dinners and dancing ect, I showed her pictures of the progress of the restoration of my pickup truck, and other pictures of gatherings and activitys I have done an attended.
Then the relationship reared its ugly head again, I had sent her a text a couple of weeks ago telling her that if she wanted to use our house while she had our grandaughter with her she was welcome to bring her here, i also added that I could go elsewhere while she was here, she did not reply to me and i just wrote it off as indifference and thought no more about it.
She said she did not understand why i would not want to be there I just said nothing. Then she asked why I did not talk to her much at our christmas gathering, i just said I spoke to you everytime you spoke to me. She took a few photos of grandaughter and me while i was there. I made no real effort to engage her.
Then i showed her pictures of my 50th birthday, she looked at them and said pity I was not invited!
At this stage I had sort of started to get a bit perplexed, i said you are not a part of my life anymore, i am well onmy way togetting a life back and i am now at peace with it all, i am happy now and enjoying life again. I said to her she has never really explained why she walked out she just gave me bits and pieces, i told her i agreed that things were not good and that i wanted to work on it (i have) she chose to walk away i said to her that i understood why she felt she had to do that but I did not agree with how she did it (Involvement with OM) i did not mention him she knows that herself.
She mentioned the friendship thing again and i just said no I have a life now and i am happy. She said the same thing to me 2 months acter she walked out.
Ok start giving me your thoughts.

[AU Bob]

Anyone ?

[Sotto]

Hi Au Bob, if you're not getting the responses you're hoping for, it may be helpful to take some time to get to know other's sitches, post on their threads and that in turn can encourage them on to yours. I'm not sure if you'll remember 'the other Bob' but he was a past master of this - it is a case of the more you put in the more you'll get out I think.

For me, it sounds as though you did reasonably well with all of the above. I think it's just important to recognise that things take time. I'd like to see you posting some more about what things you are doing for yourself, as your own journey towards healing and a rich life (with or without your W in it) are the most important things here.

Take care my friend

[AU Bob]

Thanks Sotto
I was just staying home until a couple month ago. I did not really let a lot of people know about my sitch out of embarrassment and shame mostly, I only told a few close friends.
Two months ago I started to realise that this sitch was not going away and she was not going to come back, I was tiered and lonely, I needed to reconnect with people again, I told a lot more people and let it be known I was up for going out and doing stuff again, this has blossomed and I now get invites all the time.
I go to the gym almost every day and have friends there. I have a vintage car (56 VW bug) I meet up with a few other car freaks every sunday morn for coffee and a chat. I have vintage racing bicycles that I ride with others a fair bit.
I have gone out dancing a lot and dinners at friends places.
So I think the GAL thing is starting to take shape quite well, I am a lot happier and most of the anxiety is gone.
I also have the support of my children who are not that happy about how she is behaving, two of them have said to me I am better off without WAW, this saddens me quite a bit, they used to have such a loving relationship.
It's strange now that WAW is the one who seems to be upset that I am getting over her, they don't understand that you get to a point where "you" get strong enough to be indifferent and start taking control of and enjoying your life again.

[Vapo]

... and therein lies the catch.

You W would still like to control you. She does not want do be with you, but she would still like to control your actions and keep you on her hook so to speak. This is where most people fcuk up, the mistake spouse's question as a renewed sign of interest, but in all truth they are just checking if we are still there where they left us.

And us moving away rings alarm bells with them, as they realize that they are not in control. So they seek to regain control.

Jut live your life as she is not coming back, you are not healed enough to even consider dating, but your GAL index is off the charts, so my hat is of to you sir.

Just live on, learn to love yourself again and life does get better day by day. That does not mean that there won't be days when you'll be in the dumps, but progress is imminent!

Stay strong buddy, you really are doing very well.

[AU Bob]

Thanks Vapo
I just love it when they say "but can we still be friends" who benefits from that? What planet are they on? This is the ultimate cake eating in my book, they still want to play happy family's when it suits them, and then sneak off to OM-OW.
No thanks, I have a life of my own, don't need WAW hanging around to complicate it.
My children are slowly giving her distance because of her behaviour, I don't need to say anything, she's digging her own grave.
I still wish my family were together, and I do miss her, she was once a loving caring person, she is not that person anymore!

[Zues126]

Hey Bob, just sharing for the others that may have the same questions.

My two cents...there are words, and there are actions.

If you don't want to be friends, you don't have to be...but that doesn't mean you have to tell her "I won't be friends with you". You can simply say "No matter what happens we'll have the children and you'll always be part of my life" or even "that would be nice". But then simply decline invitations, be busy, be unavailable, don't share your life. In other words say one thing and do another.

Is this lying? It's a white lie. It's no worse than when you don't want to attend someone's party so you tell them you have other plans. Why would you say "I have no interest in going to your stupid party"? Same reason I don't see a reason to say you won't be friends, just don't be.

Saying "I won't be friends" is actually a bit controlling in my opinion. It's trying to exert pressure on her to rethink her behavior by exerting the little bit of leverage left, her desire to be friends. At least it could definitely come off that way.

Of course, there are people that advise truth darting, the "if you go through with this we won't be friends", but that's usually earlier in the process.

Finally, DB coaches are big proponents of friendship as the basis of any type or R. They say the stages are 1) let the dust settle, 2) develop a autonomous co-parenting relationship and let friendship grow, 3) see if romance is re-introduced, 4) reconcile. The problem is for most DBers it takes a long time for the dust to settle.

Anyway, just some thoughts about the friendship question.

[AU Bob]

Hi Zeus
Yes I did wonder how to say it, I was put on the spot a bit, she just turned up unanounced. I think your suggestion has merit, this is one of the problems I have have, I am an intelligent person but for some reason with her I seem to have brain fade sometimes. I will think over what you have suggested and see if I can get it right if it is brought up again.
I think the problem I have is in what context the friendship is intended, what dose she want out of it, if I knew the answer I could make a judgement on witch way to go, is it cake eating or is it genuine. The sitch with OM also come into it, should I entertain it while she is still involved with him?
These are the things I struggle with? It's quite a lot to understand.

[mvgfwd2]

Honestly AUBob, I don't know why you even bother to talk with your W beyond what is absolutely necessary about your D's or something that you can't ignore. Just stop answering her calls and texts. Let them go to voicemail and delete. The only thing she is to you at the moment is someone who takes your D out once in awhile. Do you have these conversations with your D's other friends? Stop contacting her or answering her and focus on you and your future. It seems you are letting her walk all over you intruding into your new life.

[AU Bob]

I think there may be some wires crossed here. I have only contacted her once in three months. That was to do with an issue with my grand daughter.
She attended christmas at D's house with the rest of the family i just said hello as i walked past her. I kept away from her for the rest of the gathering.
I dont contact her unless I absolutely have to.
She has been the one contacting me. I did not ask her to come into my house she asked my daughter, i stayed jn my room reading when she came inside, she came into my room and asked me to come out into the kitchen and have a coffee. If i said no would that have been the right thing to do?
I have removed myself from her life as much as I can, but when you have children it's just not that easy.
I'm moving on with my life and im at peace knowing she is not in it, and as such can not hurt me anymore!

[job]

New thread.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2642071#Post2642071