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JulieH #2626558 11/25/15 04:09 PM
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I am also frusturated, because these are universal issues that often come up after small children. They are issues that could have been worked out. I Was really unhappy after kids were born, but I never seriously considered ending the marriage. we could have worked on these issues and I feel like he gave up. He gave up without real counseling (our counselor was very unethical..whole other story) without moving into apt to work on us, without reading any relationship books. He says he talked to a lot of people before hand. I have a strong suspicion these were the (3-4) friends of his that had just recently divorced. In fact our 1 night off together he was hanging out with his divorced friend instead of me. When I complained, I was controlling and preventing him from seeing friends.

Now I villify him to get through this because really I have not had Any control of this situation and must focus on how bad he was too me. The only thing that will upset him is paying me. How sad.


Me: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
Physically Separated 7/2015
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 867
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Originally Posted By: mustardseed


Get a lawyer and protect yourself and your children. He is going to try to guilt you and blame you and make you feel like you are the one who did this, but they are all tactics. Just because you get a lawyer doesn't mean you have to pursue, all it means is that someone is watching your back when your emotions keep you from seeing the bigger picture.


Just reread this, and you were right. I left our conversation feeling like I was the one responsible for the demise of our marriage. He kept focusing on a nasty comment I made, that actually had some truth to it..(.complaining that he wasn't spending enough time with kids). I never thought my husband was the manipulative type. Stubborn and obstinate yet, but never manipulative.


Me: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
Physically Separated 7/2015
JulieH #2626567 11/25/15 04:56 PM
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JulieH

The best manipulators are very, very subtle and it happens over a period of time (like the "boiling a frog" analogy). Many of them are passive aggressive or have even more severe personality issues. I'm not saying your H is any of that, but if he isn't the kind of person who just lays an issue out on the table if something's wrong and attempt to deal with it or solve it through direct and polite communication, I'd be a little on guard.

I don't have a lot about that in my posts because it's taken me a few months and some IC to see and understand some of how that had been going in our marriage. I'd also caution that a lot of times we're not being manipulated so much as we're manipulating ourselves by having unrealistic expectations and living in a kind of denial because we are sincerely trying to focus on the positive and do good work. Tricky stuff.

tl2 #2626600 11/25/15 06:41 PM
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Tl2. I'm so confused now. I always though I was passive agressive. Would never have described him that way. Still trying to figure it out. Since he left, no support except for a few purchases that I asked him for. He wants to bargain for less then state mandated percent when he earns 3x my salary,and has no expenses. I would understand this if I was the one that left and cheated on him. But he left me (no proof of affair). My lawyer even said "why does he think he's the only father in state to not have to pay child support?" What is psychology behind that? One counselor thought power struggle. I think it's a weird cheapness and way of being out for himself because he never really iewed us as family..he drives a luxury car so we always took my big car when going places and woulld always ask for my cc to pay gas and say he had no money. He earned 3x my salary! He has always been this way, even when we started dating so I think he's gonna actually have a hard time with a new woman. Hey, thinking of this is making me feel better allready. If there is an affair, she can have him. Let's see how long she puts up with this smile the fact that he even has luxury car is insane but that's a whole other story.

Last edited by JulieH; 11/25/15 06:45 PM.

Me: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
Physically Separated 7/2015
JulieH #2626608 11/25/15 06:48 PM
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I have to stop trying to make sense of it all. It doesn't matter cause it is what it is right? And all I can do is handle things as they come and stop looking for answers cause there probably aren't any.


Me: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
Physically Separated 7/2015
JulieH #2626685 11/25/15 11:50 PM
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Julie. After 4 months of not telling me why he left my H finally came up with "I put the kids first ahead of him". He was rarely home, if I didn't put the kids first who would have. I can see how my H felt I didn't praise him enough. He was constantly praised by others for all his community involvement I saw the side of him that came home "after". The exhausted, don't have any energy left, need some quiet time, side. I knew that was just the stage of life we were in. I longed for the day when we could spend time alone together.... Well finally the kids were all old enough and we were spending time together.... But he had "fallen out of love" The whole time however he was telling me he was in love and that we were better than ever. He never shared with me how desperately unhappy he was. He began "looking for happiness" elsewhere and literally planning his escape. The whole while promising me we were okay.


M: 27
03/15 - BD ILYBINILWY
09/15 -OW confirmed
Jpeg #2626715 11/26/15 02:18 AM
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Julie, I keep trying to respond to you and I keep deleting my post because I am hijacking it with my own sitch. But maybe it will help you.

Last night I scrolled back through my old texts - back to Jan-Feb - preBD and I wish I did this sooner. It made me realize that every single thing H had spewed and complained about me was right there in the texts, but in such an innocent and every day way, he twisted everything.

And I was so desperate to save our marriage and I just took it and tortured myself and beat myself up for months. No, I was not perfect. Yes, there was a grain of truth to many of his complaints. But it was not what he said, and it was not my fault. It boils down to he cracked. He lied, he manipulated the truth, he didn't deal with issues in an honest and open manner. He pretended things were ok, or didn't address them fairly, and then when he decided it was too hard he exploded it all onto me.

And that says 100% about who he is and really maybe 2% about who I am.

Think about it. Of course you are not perfect, nobody is. But you are still there, still taking care of those children, still communicating and moving forward and dealing with things in an honest manner and taking responsibility. You are not the problem. Your "problems" are not the problem. The problem is that he is not accepting responsibility or being honest about the situation. He needs to man up, and you need a L to enforce that because he sure isn't doing it on his own.

It is time to stop doubting yourself. You are not the problem here.



gonegrl #2626718 11/26/15 03:00 AM
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Hi Julie,

He may not be p-a. My STBX sure is though. However, there are all kinds of manipulators. And we all may be guilty of this at one time or another.

Main thing to focus on, especially since he left and makes so much more than you, is to get what you're entitled to for you and the kids.

tl2 #2626747 11/26/15 08:17 AM
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Hi Julie H, it's good he is giving you some feedback, though I appreciate it's hard to hear. I would encourage you to have a think about what he has said and take what you can from it.

It is common for partners to put the children first (understandably) and for their M to suffer as a result. It's a difficult balance to get right I think...and I think some fathers do feel 'sidelined' by the love, focus and attention on children.

I'm not saying anything he said was right - only that it is helpful if you can dig deep within yourself and assess whether what he says may have some validity in your eyes.

Take care x


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
gonegrl #2626750 11/26/15 08:53 AM
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Hi All,

Immature people tend to not know how to handle complicated situations. Especially emotional ones. Think about it. After BD how do we act normally? We need help straightening ourselves out. Coming here we achieve some of this because everyone has a similar story.

Mature people become condescending and arrogant until they slip up. Then they too are lost.

From my experience and as a H, sometimes we try to get the message across as well. The H's version of nagging. Sometimes it is portrayed as weakness and we double back, others the W puts in the cupboard and she has enough on her plate, others she dismisses it. More often than not when this happens we close up. For a guy it is hard to open up and be emotional. We are tons after BD, especially if we are the ones who got the ILYB... speech.

Sometimes we need the W to listen share and care about our problems. It is true we try and be the macho man infront of the W. I remember the first interactions I had with my FIL, we were both trying to impress my W. He as still daddy and me as the man in her life. we need to impress and show we have everything under control.

When we get lost we need that person to back us up. Each person is a world so there are countless ways we need it and ask for it. ME.. I will never ask directly...just drop hints. If we dont get it we do shut down and as the R gets cold, resentment builds up. Especially as we were once the apple in her eye and now it is the baby and work.

Those who were only child with strong attachments to the mother are even more lost. They were never prepared to fend for themselves emotionally or give without receiving. They went from being one woman's centre of attention (COA) to anothers.

I also think this is accentuated more with the lack of a strong male role model. IE the father.

Now they are caught up in quicksand. The more they struggle the more lost they are so in the end give up.

They make the usual mistake and when caught (which is inevitable as men are lousy A hiders as compared to women, especially if the W is determined to know the truth) blame everyone but themselves and twist everything to fit the script in their head.

The problem is for some it is now worse. On top of whatever issues they had, now they have to deal with an A gone public. Each man will deal with it in his own way.

In these cases it is not the W fault as it is not the H fault with a WW. Both are.

What changes is how we act. I think M & W act differently.


So dont beat yourself up, especially about the past. Concentrate on the future and how good a job you are doing.

The weaker the man the more he shys away from responsability, knowing whatever step he takes back in his duties means his W must take one forward to compensate.

keep it up.

Hugs Max


M: 50
S: 25

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