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Oops- doing this on my iPhone and I goofed. Moving this whole conversation from my old thread!

Okay: new thread. Here is the link to the old one:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2626398#Post2626398

LouR-I am circling you into this thread. I do feel this forcefulness today. I see how hard both these paths are. Honestly, if he walked upstairs this instant and said he is done, I would truly accept it. How different is that from a year ago?!?

And unlike before, I wouldn't see myself as failing because my M folded. I have separated my worth from the status of my marriage. I would feel so bad for my children but I can see that it is him and not all me.

From the get-go I was willing to work like a pack mule. I acknowledged my weaknesses and faults. He told me that day it was all my fault. If he ended the M now, it would be okay because it would mean he still can't lift a finger to work on it.

I know the body issues are transference issues. I get that. But that does not mean he will outgrow it.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
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I am 46 and still get carded. I get mistaken for being in my 20's or 30's all the time. No, I'm not bragging. I am telling you this because I don't think your H is concerned with your aging, I think he is worried about his own, same with my own H. This is not about us, it is about them.

I agree with the others. Your H did overkill with the letter, but I think he was projecting.

I can relate to your wondering if you could ever really have a future with your H, with all the damage done. I will admit, I view my H as a very weak man. Not attractive, and I too wonder if he could ever get my respect back. A strong woman needs a strong man, no? Time shall tell.....I can't wait to see what lies in our futures, we are in this together girlfriend smile


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
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Hi Mleigh- thanks for the great support. Right back atcha. I know exactly what you mean about the attractiveness of a man who can maneuver through thick and thin.

Recently, I remembered that a while back, out of the blue (or so it seemed) H expressed awe at how I was able to hold it all together. When I asked what he meant, he said this whole "family thing" came so naturally to me. There was a sadness about him when he said it. This was before BD but obviously he was on the MLC trajectory--I see that in hindsight now. I have tried to remember when he said it but I can't. It could have been 18 months ago or 2 years ago.

Anyway, at that time, I just listened and didn't say anything. But now I see that even then, he was just going through the motions of living. The reality is, it does not "come naturally." Rather, like anything worthwhile, it comes with hard work! I didn't say that because it would have come off as preachy. But, this is a big difference in perspective between us.

This is where those family of origin issues surface. On my side, nearly everyone grinds it out through really tough times. The men on my side are loyal and truly believe in marriage as an institution. I have a cousin who recently divorced (one of the first in the family) and his father truly is struggling with it.

H comes from weak marital stock. It was always bizarre to me. There is an open marriage, a cake eater, and a Peter Pan. And it is a very small family!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
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I too sometimes remember moments when my H would get really overwhelmed with day to day things, and he too would make comments on how I always get it all done. He would almost make fun of how we always would have whatever we needed stocked in the house. There was no running out of milk here!

He too comes from a family of divorce. The one sister is the divorced twice drug problem sister. His mom is on her 3rd unhappy marriage. His dad never remarried and has been alone for 20 years, and scarily enough H has always envied that. His one other sister is still married. She is very religious so that plays a huge part.

I have no siblings, just a divorced twice mom that was a single mom my whole life. Out of 6 cousins, only 1 divorced. None of my 3 aunt's are divorced either. I have pretty much been surrounded by family who work hard to keep their families together and thriving. My H and his family really turned out to be a big disappointment...just saying.

I hope you have a wonderful holiday! What are your plans tomorrow?


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,597
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Mleigh- Your h's supposed envy over living alone really cues me that he is depressed. That is not a normal thought process for a non depressed person.

We are going to a restaurant for dinner. I think this is good as the vibe around the house is, well, not so festive, as you can imagine.

H did text me on several occasions today. Some of the texts were home related. Then he asked if I wanted him to bring home pizza for me and what kind. I said yes and thanks. He bought me a whole 18" pizza for just me. (No one else eats the kind I chose.) I was expecting two slices. Geez. Lol!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
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He has shown signs of depression for a long time. His mom told me he has always been depressed. I have always wondered if it could be a chemical imbalance? IDK. I hope he is getting help like he said he was when he moved out.

Your Thanksgiving plans sound nice, let us know how it goes. Looks like H is showing effort lately? That is good too.

Enjoy your pizza, that sounds so good to me right now!!!


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,202
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Hey HaWho, I’ve been keeping up with your threads all along, just didn’t’ have time to post. I can relate to the family of origin issues. I’m the first one to be divorced in my family and my extended family. Not to say that all family members, including my parent had a happy marriage. They just stuck together, that’s all. This was my H’s reason to live. He said that he didn’t want to be in an unhappy marriage. On the other side, I can’t think of a single person in H’s family who has not been divorced. His words at BD were that he is doing the same thing his Dad did to his Mom, and then “oh well”... He also said that his second brother (my BIL who lives in the same neighborhood with me) had it right – he never got married.

I also keep thinking about that letter your H wrote… I wonder if my H could do something like that too. H had a subscription to Playboy for all his adult life. I realize now that I was always subconsciously competing with these Playboy girls, to make sure I look my best, so H would like me. I look at this different now. I still want to look my best when I want to. But, I’m also more comfortable in my own skin now. Needless to mention that I also realize that I aged in the last three years. But, I’m pretty sure that there is a guy out there who will think that I’m beautiful!

Enjoy your dinner!


M:50
H:52
S28 (my S from previous marriage)
M:17 + 3
BD: 06/12
S: 06/12 - H works in another state
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Bright, I'm not a guy but I think you are beautiful smile


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,597
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Mleigh - at this point your husband is probably losing testosterone to boot. But yes, hopefully he is seeking professional assistance too.

As for my H's recent effort I think it is just a holiday peekout. Once Thanksgiving ends I fully expect him to cloister himself into his safe dorm room. Then I am sure he will swing right back into playing the MLC personality roulette game with me. Lol!

Hi Brightfuture-nice to hear from you! All BDs are weird in their own way, I suppose. But the way your h just said "oh well" over such a huge, life altering decision is cold. The whole MLC script is jaw dropping of course. For months after mine, I felt like I was listenin' to a frat buddy. It was gross. I remember wishing he came with a mute button.

My IC says there are studies showing MLCers show changes in their brain scans. But, I am sure when one grows up seeing couples throwing in the towel left and right, one is desensitized to it.

As for your h's magazines Bright, of course, the women in those magazines are air brushed to the max. After I received the letter, I went to the beach a lot and really looked around. There are no perfect women. Guess what? I didn't see any perfect men either.

Bright-of course there are LOTS of men who would find you very beautiful for LOTS of reasons.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,597
Likes: 2
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I hope all who celebrate the holiday had a nice Thanksgiving.

This is my second Thanksgiving in MLC-land (post BD). Of course, I was in MLC-land three Thanksgivings ago; I just didn't know it. Oddly, even though we were "working" on our M last year I found I am significantly more settled this year. Even though H said he was working on it last year, he wasn't and meanwhile, every day felt like I was auditioning for a part as his wife. It was awful. I still didn't know what was wrong with him. In fact, I was really afraid that there was something gravely wrong with his brain.

This year, I know what this all is. I have removed myself from his equation of confusion and that is freeing. I have learned to live with an MLCer without getting drawn into his drama. And, unlike last year I do feel thankful. I am grateful for my past with H, for my children and for this moment in time.

As for the holiday, it was fairly quiet. I made a nice breakfast. I find I have my old energy back. Last year this time, I had to summon myself to make a nice breakfast. I was coming out of my own depression and boy, was I easily fatigued.

H ate breakfast with us. He looked horrible. He was pure grey and his eyes were so sullen. The photos of him look ghostly. Like Xmas last year. After breakfast we all watched a movie at home.

Then, we started to dress for dinner. I helped S10 and S12 gather their clothes:suits! I gave S10 his tie and told him to go down and ask his father to tie it for him. I didn't think twice about this as this was always a H task.

A few minutes later S10 comes up and his tie is a mess. I ask if S12 tied it. He says no, that his dad did. The top part doesn't have that triangular shape at all. When I pull the long part of the tie, I see that the shorter flap of the tie is longer than the part that is supposed to be longer. And H just tucked the thinner part of the tie in between the buttons of the shirt so that it was hidden inside the shirt. I had this frustration take me over. He can't even take 1 minute to help him with a tie. Then I calmed myself by realizing I asked H13 to help. Zero expectations . . . zero expectations . . . I am in my happy place . . . I am in my happy place...

S12 came in my room and saw me re-tie his brother. S12 said, with dejection: this is something dad is supposed to do and instead he just plays music all the time. I felt myself crumble for him. He can remember a time when his dad took time to teach him this. S10 hears his brother say this. I know someday they will discuss these years amongst themselves. Normally I do not say too much. I listen. But today I said cheerfully: mom is here to help and gave him a big hug. The boys looked so handsome. What good people they are! I am so proud of how kind they are.

Dinner was nice. The food was delicious and the place was very festive. I am proud of H as I am sure he had to muster a tremendous amount of energy for the day. I remember my own depressive fatigue.

After dinner we went for a walk and H told the kids: mom and I stayed here on vacation years ago. I listened and did not say anything. He reminisces like this every so often and it is weird. After he was done talking he turned and asked me if I remembered that. That too was odd. I am sure that was projection. He has forgotten so much he probably assumes I have as well. I thanked him for dinner and then off to home we went. He went to the dorm room for the night and I say by the fire with the boys.

This morning I see he emailed me. He thanks me for the pleasant company at dinner and sent me a copy of he song. I responded by thanking him once again for dinner. And I thanked him for the song.

Today, he gave me the day off (a welcome respite) as I worked from home with the boys Monday - Wedesday. He has plans with the kids.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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