Re: LBH w/ a WW trying to save my M (5)

[gs9]

Need advice

This morning we were talking about the separation agreement and ww said "this [censored]" and she started crying and walked away. I asked her to come back and asked "why does this suck, this is what you want" She said "no, i wanted a husband who wouldn't cheat, throw me under the bus, put me first," I said "and I wanted a wife who wouldn't cheat, call me names, belittle me.. then I stopped and said " I'm not going to live in the past. I'm talking about now and the future." She said " I don't believe youre ever going to change" I said " i don't believe you will either" She said "you always go to the past telling me how miserable you are. After we started MC I spent a year trying to do all things you needed. Doing things that weren't natural to me and I thought you should just man up." I said "all I ever asked of you is that if you wanted to know my feelings then when I share them that they be acknowledged and validated. And for you not to tell me you hate me" She then made excuses for why she would tell me she hates me.
Conversation over.
I sent a text that said "we both know we made mistakes. There's no point in hashing out the past. If you think this [censored] and you believe what you said last tuesday that "you love me more than anything in the world" then do something about it
She replied " You just finished telling me you don't think that I'll ever change into the woman you want and I don't think that you'll ever change and support me and put me first and care about me and love me and be faithful to me so why would I want it. Why would I change anything that's happening right now?
Don't forget you also completely blew me off Tuesday.

So. question. Do I reply? Is this an opening to R talk? How do I reply

[Dawgs]

Do I reply? Is this an opening to R talk? How do I reply

That totally depends on what you want. Want to see if it will work? It looks like an argument, but it could also be the opening to a R talk.

Since my advice is usually pretty contradictory on here, I will give you this - some women use what appears to be an argument as a cue to talk. Sounds like she is in pain, too.

I don't think that you'll ever change and support me and put me first and care about me and love me and be faithful to me so why would I want it.

If I were to hazard a guess, then this tells me that she is hurt. She seems to be reaching out. Did you not do these things in the marriage? Maybe she really is looking for an open door. It sure seems like she is. What do you have to lose?

[gs9]

Sounds like she is in pain, too.

she is in pain. she hurts from when I was unfaithful and she has never let go anything go. Not only the unfaithfulness but she holds things against me that I did 8 years ago, things I did long before I ever met her and even things that are not real. things that didn't actually happen but she creates an alternate truth.

Did you not do these things in the marriage?

I'm sure this could be argued either way. I know that we were both at fault and I am by no way blameless. However, Our MC said because of her being abused as a child she will often project the things her father didn't do (IE support, protect, love, care for her) on me. She'll blame me for things that her father never did. When she gets angry she isn't really seeing or talking to me. She is talking to her dad.

[Dawgs]

Hi gs9! Seems that we are in a similar boat.

she is in pain. she hurts from when I was unfaithful and she has never let go anything go. Not only the unfaithfulness but she holds things against me that I did 8 years ago, things I did long before I ever met her and even things that are not real. things that didn't actually happen but she creates an alternate truth.

They come up with crap from whenever! Mine pulls such obscure stuff - it seems like when something of hers gets called on she comes up with something else. They all create an alternate truth - some on levels much deeper than others, no doubt. Mine is famous for this.

I know that we were both at fault and I am by no way blameless. However, Our MC said because of her being abused as a child she will often project the things her father didn't do (IE support, protect, love, care for her) on me. She'll blame me for things that her father never did. When she gets angry she isn't really seeing or talking to me. She is talking to her dad.

Well, unless one person is just a total *ss, then it almost always takes two... That is interesting about the abused as a child thing and projecting. My W when through stuff no child should have, including all forms of abuse and as a young adult she was raped and on another occasion she was almost killed by a supposed great boyfriend. Our counselor(s) never made that connection as yours did. It kind of makes sense, though. But I got the same projections as you did.

Let me ask a question - why did you take your ring off?

[gs9]

Taking my ring off was hard for me. I wrote about all the interactions of the weekend I stopped wearing it on 11.16 if you'd like to read through it all. But in summary. The verbal abuse had become unbearable. She made another negative statement to D4 about me. She ripped up a wedding photo in front of D4. She sent me several lengthy nasty text messages. I didn't even read them. I started to and then just deleted them. The abuse has exhausted me and my ring felt like a burden I could no longer take. It also felt like another step in detaching. Since that weekend I have really struggled with even wanting to divorce bust. My heart wants it over. My heart is no longer in it. My heart wants out. My heart isn't in love with her anymore. My heart can't take anymore.
However, I know the heart can be wickedly deceiving and we are not supposed to be led by the heart but we are supposed to lead the heart. So I'm trying to keep my head straight. I'm trying to lead my heart and do the right things. I know divorce is not right. It is not the way God intended things from the beginning. It is not what's best for her, for me or the children. Divorce is usually a very selfish decision and in our sitch this D is serving only her. She is selfishly putting herself before anyone else.
God is calling me to continue to fight for this M and family. To give it to Him and wait on Him.

[gs9]

so I'm still not sure how to reply? I think I should definitely validate her feelings....her pain.
" I know you're hurting. I understand you feel blown off when you reached out. I know this feeling [censored]. "

Do I also tell her "I do believe you can change. But not change into the woman I want. You can change into the woman you've always told me you want to be and that IS the woman I want."

[Dawgs]

Hi GS9!

Divorce, unless warranted by abuse or the like, is always a selfish decision. Always. They seem to think that its whats best for them regardless of the family, but they don't realize that they are divorcing the family and not just the spouse. I am sorry you had to deal with such abuse and behavior, especially in front of your child. First and foremost, be there for your child. That is priority number one. All else falls by the wayside in comparison.

so I'm still not sure how to reply? I think I should definitely validate her feelings....her pain.
" I know you're hurting. I understand you feel blown off when you reached out. I know this feeling [censored]. "

Do I also tell her "I do believe you can change. But not change into the woman I want. You can change into the woman you've always told me you want to be and that IS the woman I want."

I would definitely validate her feelings. Maybe not use the word understand. I believe I read in some thread on here how they associate that word with almost a belittling type of term, although others will know more, though. I am not sure on the telling her about the change part. Might want to leave that one out...

Keep your chin up!

[otw]

definitely do not tell her "i know" or I understand". and do not turn it back to yourself. read the validation thread again for terms to use.

and the second part i am not sure about either.

I know we are still looking at ways to fix things by what we say, but at this point in your situation I do not believe that is going to happen. really think about what you want to happen by what you say here and then sit back and ask yourself will it really happen because i said this.

Maybe a small validation and that is all. But if you are going to bring it up out of nowhere now after the fact, i would resort to what Azzork always said and do nothing. If you approach her to validate now it just shows that you are stewing over it and it is actually pursuing.

You need to get the validation stuff ready to go for when the talks are happening in my opinion.

[gs9]

Thanks guys. Good pts. I did already send this text
" I can see you're hurting. I understand you felt blown off when you reached out and I can see how feeling like that would have s*cked. I hope you remember what I said that night. I drafted an email I will be sending shortly regarding the attorneys."

Email
I am willing to agree to:
- Child support of $XXX/ month per our original agreement + health insurance + carrying $xxxK in life insurance should anything ever happen to me.

- Kitchen appliances are attached fixtures of the home, however I will agree to you taking the oven and microwave.

- I will agree to take responsibility for all costs and fees pertaining to the refinance and new 2nd mortgage on the house. (about $8K)

-Taking full responsibility for the truck and it's loan ($xxk)

- School loans-
My school loan payment $300 ended July 2014
Your school loan payment $252
- over the 5 years of our marriage until July 2014 when my school loan was paid off we paid an additional $3244 to my school loan. Since then we have only been paying yours which is a total of $4032. In summary we have paid $788 more towards your loan then we did mine. Also, this loan was yours before we married and not acquired during the marriage. I will not agree to paying on your student loan once the divorce in final or we officially split all accts.

- VW lease-
We agreed I would take responsibility for the Volvo and you would take the VW. I will not agree to pay for the VW

- I will agree to release all rights to _________( her private business)

- I will agree to being primary residential parent, paying the first $250 of medical expenses each year and being sole decision maker with the duty to confer.

- filing taxes together and 50/50 any refund or liability

- leave secondary education blank. This could work against us if she qualifies for/ needs financial aid for college

She responded saying she will not agree to child support and the VW lease responsibility.

I feel like saying " so you're again going to lie. Ok, be a liar. What's you counterproposal "

[Dawgs]

Wow, I haven't gotten to the point of even thinking of splitting up all that, but I sure do imagine my W has. Damn.

I feel like saying " so you're again going to lie. Ok, be a liar. What's you counterproposal "

Yeah, better not poke that bear...