Thank you so much Sotto, job and Mleigh. reading your messages was the boost I needed today
I spoke with h this evening - trying to condense an 1 1/2hr phone call into a post is not going to happen so will give you the key parts.
We have decided that spending so much money on what is ultimately a 30hr visit is silly. He very much wants to see me again but would rather wait until we can have more time together. We discussed when my next time off will be and its been decided he will come to me for 4 days - Arriving Christmas Eve so we will be spending Christmas together. He will drive up and bring the dogs, s18 will be here with his g/friend, so I will ask s21 if he wants to come up to.I had to mention its the sofa or my bedroom and he said my bedroom if that's ok, but how were we going to explain to s18 (our boys don't know about me and h being anymore than separated parents that weirdly talk alot!!) I said s18 wont think anything of it, in fact it prob would not surprise him at all, he thinks our relationship is "the most bizarre split on the planet"
He said it will also give him a few more weeks in therapy so hopefully will be a bit further ahead in himself.
We talked my future plans and came up with something that fits with us both, which gives him the space he needs and me the direction I need.
So the plan as it stands (which is always subject to change on this journey !!) is that I will try stick my job out until mid feb. I have a girls holiday planned for the end of Feb. Then I will go to the UK for a couple of months, I feel I need to draw a line under the UK and know that I am living in NZ because I want to, not because h is here or my kids are here - but because I choose to be here for myself and to be with them. (to give background, I came to NZ because h got offered a job and we thought why not, I was not that keen to leave my newly started job and friends, but it meant a lot to h and I always have followed him to wherever he went, this have been an issue for me without really knowing it was. I now need to close this door to move forwards with h). I will then return to NZ and move to the South Island to where a dear g/friend lives, its about 5hr drive from h, which means logistics for seeing each other will be easier, this will hopefully get more regular until we are ready to make it more permanent. H is hoping (and this is not set in stone, I know this, I won't be holding him to it, this process will take as long as it takes) that by the time his rental lease is up in Sept next year he would like to be at the point of us starting afresh somewhere new, together. Its not the time frame that surprised me, its the fact he has thought about all this - just goes to show that we have no idea what they think about !!
He opened up a bit more about what he has been thinking about and what he wants to change within himself, he said he does not want to discuss some things with me yet as he may not need to, which is fine by me. I told him there are things I don't wish to discuss with him yet either, but may do one day, or their importance may disappear, he said he feels the same way.
H had a really good weekend which I am so happy about. He said he did talk to one of the boys that he knows has reconciled with his partner after a break and told them he and I are trying to work things out - in fact, get this , he had told him a few months ago when they met up for another jolly weekend .....so they talked about it and h asked his friend for his advice on how to make it work, his friend told him that is the best thing he ever did, his relationship is much better and stronger now, but it takes a lot of communication and hard work, they have tough times still but its worth it. Great for h to hear.
Today has been a good day. I went to the pub with my g/friend, was sober driver on this occasion, but still a nice way to spend an afternoon. Spoke to h early evening and then went to my g/friends for dinner.
I don't want to waste my holidays so I have will have to think of a few nice things to do. 5 days to go ..... grin
Hi Lou, sounds like your H is really thinking things through. I think it is a good sign. From what you described, it looks like a long journey, but in MLC world it is not that long. But, you have something to look forward to in the near future, the Christmas holidays. And then you will see how it goes. I’m very hopeful for you .
Have you decided what you are doing on these coming holidays?
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Hi Lou, All this sounds very positive. Timeframe ... wow. You have a real shot at making this work my dear Lou, and I hope and pray that by this time next year you and H will be reunited and looking at this as a test you both passed with flying colors - one which has strengthened your commitment to each other and love.
When I think of where you guys were last year at this time, it gives me hope.
xoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Wow Lou. That all sounds so great, I am really happy for you! I love how things are sort of planned out, so my style! It gives you something to work towards although you aware the time tables may change.
Your H shows such progress and you sound great. Definitely gives me hope
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Hi All, thank you Bright, bttrfly and mleigh for your support and encouraging words.
Not really much to report this week - I am on my hols :o) well earned and much needed.
Yesterday I went on a mini roadtrip with a g/friend, I took her to an outlet centre that she hadn't been to. It was a long day but nice and I managed to get a few Christmas bits for the kids stockings (well I say kids, more grown ups now lol). I did feel a bit used though as this is the second time we have done a trip out and both times I have driven as she is a nervous driver, but then I have ended up paying all the fuel, which grated on me a bit as I didn't actually need anything, was just going for a day out. Ah well, live n learn.
Today I was having lunch with a g/friend, I was to meet her at her work, when I turned up her colleagues said she was off sick, had been all weekend so not sure why she did not let me know - I seem to have some great friends .....lol. I ended up going to the beach for a walk and paddled in the sea, then took s18 and g/friend out for ice cream, so turned out a nice day.
I have plans for shopping and lunch with a g/friend on Friday but apart from that I intend to relax, go to the beach again and catch up with much neglected emails.
On the h front (bttrfly, progress, he rang x2 !!): I mentioned chatting over weekend if he was free, he rang sat morn, didn't talk about anything in particular, just general chit chat, boys, week, job etc. He mentioned s21 was visiting him with new g/friend for dinner on Sunday so he would text me what she is like - he rang me Sunday evening after they left. Conversation started off ok, then turned a bit, I hit a nerve by denying he told me something, his voice and demeanor changed, he has told me not to allow him to treat me badly so I started to stand my ground but realised that this was one battle not worth fighting, so steered the conversation around to change of subject. The conversation came around to me moving and that I want to make sure that whatever I do its the right thing for me, this lead him to opening up more about his thoughts and feelings on where he is head wise.
Key points were - his therapist calls it Transition, he has not had a breakdown and he is not depressed, he functions on a day to day level fine, just has a problem accepting and understanding who he is and what he wants. Oh, and he is sick of hearing the word Journey ha ha ha
He feels ashamed and embarrassed. He is frustrated that he cannot seem to work this out quickly, he considers himself an intelligent fast learner so this is highly annoying for him. He has prided himself in being a true "alpha male" so this has hit hard that he has lost control over his thoughts.
He is humbled that I still even talk to him let alone am working with him on reconciling, he said if I had done to him what he has done to me he would never have anything to do with me again.
He feels that he is about a yr behind me, he wants to make sure he has a healthy mind and a happy independent life before he fully commits to me, he would like us to develop our relationship slowly so we both are comfortable with it. Living an altered life is not an option for him so is not prepared to skip any steps, but totally understands if I find this all to long and hard going and want to walk away - but that is not saying he would be happy about it.
He wants to make sure that any decisions I make about my job, move, future is based on what I feel is right for me, not doing anything because of him, he does not want it on his conscience that I am unhappy in my choice because of him - that he has done that too many times in my past.
We touched on the past, the things which affected us both and the fact that they have now been removed so we will be going in to this from a new place. Our boys are no longer children, he is no longer in a job that takes him away, I have grown and developed my own separate life which makes me no longer dependent on him. I like him (most of the time), I want him (I miss him from my life), but I no longer NEED him.
Yesterday we text about Christmas visit, cost became an issue, travelling on Christmas eve, plus s21 not committing to coming or not and now gone to Fiji for a week so we have to wait until he gets back to nail him down for an answer. I ended up playing it down, said I hope it all works out but appreciate that we need to be sensible about money - of course I will be disappointing, but nothing I can do about it, its out of my control ......yeay, she's got it I hear you yelling !!
So now its back to thinking about what I want to do next - making sure its actually what I want and what is best for me - its hard, especially as I really have no clue - but I have become very good at allowing things to unfold as something will make the decisions for me, its that word again ....patience lol.
Lou, For the moment, you are going to have to do things that make sense to you, i.e., your job, moving, etc. Your h has a lot of growing up to do and yes, those demons are starting to unfold for him...but it takes a very long time for them to heal.
The best thing you can do for the both of you is to live your life to the fullest. He is aware that he's got a ways to go, so leave the door ajar and plan things for you and that make you happy along the way. When the time is right, he will run and catch up w/you. Okay?
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I know I got way ahead of myself and am now feeling the disappointment. Its disheartening when you can see it but cant touch it.
Originally Posted By: job
The best thing you can do for the both of you is to live your life to the fullest.
This is where I am really struggling. The outer me is all smiles and laughs, my friends are in awe of the "strength" I have to move myself forward from what has happened to me, but my inside is telling a very different story, sadness and deep unhappiness. Dissatisfaction for how I am now living, the daily struggle to find the enthusiasm to keep going and to believe that life will get better. I worry about making ends meet each week, giving up the nicety's (like food, !!) to make that happen. And yes, I know that its the cards I have been dealt so get on with it, but it is hard to adjust to a life you never expected to be living. Goodness, I am throwing myself a pity party today .....well, I would but I cant afford to ha ha ha.
I only seem to know what I don't want, not what I do want, and that is such a negative attitude, I don't know why I am like this now. I have times of complete enthusiasm, I come up with a plan, then Bam! deflation. I look at how I am, I know that while I figure all this out I am wasting precious time - I am aware that I am only 7yrs off the age my mum died, she spent so much of her life doing for others that when she finally took time for her she lost her life, I don't want to be like that, I really don't want to look back feeling like I had such a sad existence, but unless I can get rid of these inner feelings then I fear I wont feel enjoyment and contentment, I wont have lead a fulfilling life. Its terrible, what holds them there?
So this is an honest post about what is happening inside, what I am really feeling. Sometimes we brush over the internal because we know no one really wants to hear it - like being asked "hows you day" at the checkout, you always reply "good thanks", its what we do, we don't say "well as you've asked, my h left me, my budgie died this morning, I locked myself out of my car, and oh I got an eviction notice from my landlord in the post - How's your day going?" lol.
I know you are all struggling in your own ways, some of you may feel the same as me, so I am giving you all a virtual hug, because once in a while we need one. {hugs}
It is so good you posted this all today. We have all been dealt a tough hand and it is so healthy to get it out in this safe place. Don't worry, we know you have a sunny disposition!
Despite the hardships you are feeling, I am going to cheer you on. What you are feeling is a moment in time. It will pass. Feel it, accept it and then go do 1 thing for yourself. Try to get some fresh air--maybe a walk? Play some music as it is hard to be unhappy when listening to enjoyable music.
You are doing so well! You really are. I am sending you positive karma!
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Took your advice and went to the beach for a walk. Its my calm place, I would love to live in a beach bach, that would be so idyllic to me.
h text me before I went, he wanted to know how my hol is going and am I relaxing. When I said yes, I am nearly back to my old self (but in a good way), he replied that it was well deserved and much needed. We text back and forth for a bit and left it in a good place. I will text him in a couple of days as per his request to contact him more often.
So now its a few ciders and nibbles on the porch in the sunshine, I am so destined for a coastal life ! One decision down lol.
Don't ever hesitate or hold back on your sadness or frustrations, that is what we are here for. We all have it but work so hard to live around it. I think only time really heals it.
I love reading your updates and am so proud of your achievements. I like Hawhos idea, do something nice for you. For some reason I see your H in mine, thank you for sharing his thoughts.
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
I know I have thrown myself a pity party for one, I should be thankful of what I do have and look at the things I don't have as goals to strive for. Easier said than done sometimes.
I hope that by sharing what my h has told me (he would be mortified if he ever knew) that it may help others understand that what the mlc'er is doing really isn't about their spouse, its about them. Also when they do start to come out of this its not an easy and simple process.
Thank you my friends for your continued support - I looked back at what I wrote in my journal a year ago today, I was sending my stuff off to the uk and h had text me about finances, I was all hopeful that he may stop me from leaving the country ha ha, it did raise a smile reading it. I hope that this time next year I can read this years entry and raise a smile at this one too.
Oh my dear Lou, not a pity party... these feelings have to come out or they fester ... we don't need YOU to turn to the dark side and have a MLC, lollol....
Yes, it is VERY difficult to know what one wants, at least for me. I think spending the past 15 years being a mom and putting the family before me has made it especially difficult to become clear on what * I * want, separate from those I love. Make sense? I somehow think you might be able to relate to that statement
So how does one do that? I do not profess to have any answers. The weeks s is with h I've spent a vast amount of time alone, intentionally so. I've gone inward. I've really thought about things in a more macro sense first, then micro - meaning, I've started by thinking what do I want my space around me to feel like, what do I want to fill it with? Everyone will have different answers to that. My answer was light, love, safety, friendship, community ... then I started thinking about the details ... things actually became a lot clearer for me when I did that. I asked for a lot of guidance from God/Spirit/The Universe. Once I had something solid, like light, love, safety, etc. I wrote it down and thought about it some more. Then one day when I was driving and thinking about it, something said to record my thoughts, so I did. I later wrote that out too. Every day for months I would read it out loud, sometimes many times a day. I don't know if this is helpful? It is the process I used. I will say that the apartment I hope to move to definitely feels like it has the potential to hold all of that and more. I hope this helps you dear Lou.
Also my heartfelt thanks for sharing not only your story but also what's going on with your H. You help me to understand the other side of this story. It's not pretty, is it? There's so much pain for everyone, but at least we LBS don't have the additional guilt weighing on us. I feel so much more compassion towards the MLCer every time you and others share glimpses of the "other side" so thank you so very much for your honesty and openness.
Enjoy your hols Lou ... you know, one day you and I should have a chat about herbs and flower essences. Not sure why I feel that you might be a budding herbalist ... just a niggling suspicion ... xoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Thanks bttrfly for sharing and giving me a new perspective on this. And yes you are correct, I love flowers and herbs, I am very into homeopathic remedies.
My hols did not quite do the trick of letting my mind settle, but despite this it has been a wonderful break and the knowledge that its not long until I get my mini breaks for xmas and new year keeps me moving forwards.
h let me know he has booked the ferry for him to come to me for Christmas, I was a bit shocked as I was prepared for the excuses to continue and him not come. I had even made my own plans - going to a Christmas Eve party after work and then Christmas Day an invite to a bbq on the beach for all the lonely's who have nowhere else to go ! I don't know if s21 and g/friend are coming yet, it going to be a very bizarre Christmas lol.
The other thing that has happened h wise is that his m has b/cancer for the 2nd time, different tumour, but resulting in a mastectomy, op went well and recovering good. Results were good, nothing in nodes and all tumour removed. However chemo has been advised to make sure no rogue cells got free so she has opted to go ahead with it. She starts just before Christmas so has had to cancel her plan to see her s (h's b) and g/kids for Christmas - this woman is family orientated and Christmas is a big deal for her, she cant do Christmas without family. So she told h that because the g/kids may have colds or bugs she has to stay clear of them and that makes her sad - so what does h do - he has decided he is going to fly over and surprise her between c/mas and n/year. That's all wonderful and its him through and through (well the old him) this is the guy I knew. BUT he is also doing the impulsive thing jump first and think later. In the meantime I receive an email from MIL, newsy stuff, mostly things that h has already told me as she does not know we are in such close contact, and she mentioned that if g/kids are germ free in between c/mas and n/year and she feels ok then they are going to visit them. She also mentioned they were spending c/mas day with good friends.
So when h told me his plan to fly over for 10 days and in the middle go see his brother, I replied "yes, I know, your mum mentioned she was going to visit them all pending germs"; he replied "?? she's not going anywhere, not seeing family, that's why I am going to go and see her, so she sees family over Christmas and as a surprise" so I copied the part of her email that related to the visit and c/mas day and sent it to him. I then replied (and I know this is a gamble that he could take it the wrong way, but I feel we are at the point of being able to be open enough to point stuff out things that the other may not see) "She may not yet get to see them, unfortunately its down to the day of everyone being well, and that includes you. Its a great gesture and I get why you are wanting to do this however I will say this (and please don't take this as me trying to dissuade you) this is a long journey (nz to uk) and a lot of money for 10 days and if you get sick you wont be able to see her. The boys tend to jump first think second so just want to make sure you have thought this through sensibly". He replied " the biggest reason to go was so she sees family over Xmas season, she did not tell me b is even an option. Nothing has been confirmed, its still at the idea stage, will contact f and ask him what he thinks".
I know this sounds really harsh - I do. H has not paid me for a while so he can continue therapy, he has been working to pay off his debts and doing well - to put this trip on his cc makes me a bit miffed to say the least. She has been given a good prognosis - 85% chance of not returning for another 10yrs so its not like this is a mercy dash home, which I would completely support, neither is it a long trip to spend quality time with her during her illness. If he gets sick then he cannot be near her - which is what the whole point of the trip is. He has traveled all that way to see her, would she really have the heart to turn him away if he comes down with a cold, should he put her in that position? Am I being a terrible person? Perhaps I am not seeing it ?? My mum was not up for visitors and she was conscious of being "ok" when we were around, she put on a brave face, she was also very cautious of colds and bugs, I suppose that's my experience of chemo. I do get why he wants to go back to see her (although she drives him crazy so that's why its only for a short time with a jaunt to see his b halfway for a sanity trip) so for him to think of doing this is a selfless act, its about making his mum happy and that's just great, its a sign he is moving forwards himself.
Whatever he decides to do I will support him, its his choice at the end of the day.
My mum made a cross stitch advent Calendar for me and my bx2 when we were kids, she hung small gifts and chocolates on it, the last day 24th was always a magazine. Lovely memories. Anyway, she left it to me and I used it for my boys until a few years ago. S18 asked if I would do it this year for him and g/friend so its come out of storage and I have been wrapping little things up all day to hang on it ready for tomorrow.
Back to work tomorrow, let the silly season begin - we have all the backpackers, fruit pickers and vine trimmers arriving in town for the summer season so its very busy at work - back to the toothbrush crazy !!
Thanks as always for reading, hope everyone well and you all had a great weekend xx
Not much happening in GAL department, work seems to have taken over again. I did manage to get a bit of Christmas shopping done but I am really far behind, not helped by a funds problem (not had anything from h for a few months now as he asked to defer payments to help pay for therapy), I have explained to my g/friends that this year I will only be doing cards and they have all been on board with this – apart from them sending me gifts which I feel embarrassed at. I know they understand my current financial position but that does not make it any easier to accept gifts from them.
H wise, he rang last night, we had not had communication of any sort for a week. We talked ….well actually ended up more like sparing at times …for a couple of hours. I know that perhaps I should have guzzled down a few of Cali’s STFU smoothies.
I don’t want to show h a meek me, a woman who accepts and validates all his thoughts and decisions. If we are to make it, he needs to get to know the new me, the one who wants my voice to be heard and that my opinion matters. To walk on eggshells and go along with what he says and does will only set us up for problems when he discovers the real me. So I argued my corner, admittedly totally unnecessary at times, I know I could have let a lot of it go, but the more he tried to do his control and manipulate tricks the more I stood my ground. In the end we agreed to disagree and changed the subject, visiting a few subjects that caused more tension, but we got there, we carried on talking, we kept going with it, neither slamming the phone down (I was tempted a few times) and we got through, ending a 2 ½ hr conversation with a flirty joke.
I was drained to be honest and there was so many red flags raising themselves, me wondering if this is really the guy I want to be with. The thing is, this process is far from over for both of us and he is changing all the time (like the visit to see his family which he has shown no interest in doing for the past 9 yrs), so this is not the end result, who knows what will stay, what will go and what new things are still to be added. I can’t judge him on who he is now, which is a good thing as I really don’t like lots of parts. I ended up feeling bullied and that caused flashbacks of our m, only this time I did not take it quietly.
He is going back to the UK for a visit, I don’t agree with his decision but I respect it. He acknowledged he has a control and manipulation problem, it’s what makes him fantastic at his job, but he brings it into his personal life and knows that it is what affected me in our m and affected ow in their r, he knows it’s an area he has to work on for any r to work and be equal.
S21 and his g/friend are coming for xmas, so its going to be a full house 6 of us in a tiny 2 bed unit lol. Its either going to be a blast or a disaster ha ha. I have manged to buy the booze, so if all goes wrong then I can get completely sloshed and remain in this state for the 3 days – joking !
I bought up with h the subject of him sleeping in my bedroom, I suppose I just wanted a hint as to what this was about - He said he has no problem with sleeping next to me and that he has been working on the whole guilt/physical interaction issue and the only way to test out if he has got past it is to be near me again. This has worried me slightly about what he hopes will happen when he is staying in my bedroom. The flirty texts hinted at fooling around, but how do I approach this – I am pretty sure he is not ready for s%x and I really don’t know how I feel about it, I am worried that it will spark off ow issues for me, but it’s one of those things that I will only find out once actually going through with it – I suppose I should just be brave and ask him straight out, but really don’t know what to say to him.
Thanks as always for taking the time to read my posts.
I have been a good girl this week. Realize I have been on the angry crazy train and needed to get off before I ruin any chance I have of rebuilding a r with h. I think its been a combination of being extremely tired from work and h being honest with his feelings on subjects which in turn touched nerves with me. My old self would have said nothing but this new, more vocal me, needs to learn when to keep my mouth shut, listen and let the small stuff go.
So this weekend, lots of texting been going on. Kept it light, no r talk, h talk, or giving my unasked for opinions -
Work wise - I spoke to the Store Manager and informed him I would like to step down from my position in the New Year and that I appreciate he may not have anything else suitable for me, but currently the hours I work don't give me a work/life balance. He understands what I would like and why, but really does not want to lose me from my position now I have the dept running well so asked for some time to come up with a solution. I have heard on the grapevine that he is going to offer me Mon - Fri with an early finish on a Friday when I want to catch the last flight or if h is coming to visit me the ability to pick him up from the airport.
So its a quandary, another decision to make. The days and hrs mean that h and I will now have the same days off so we can visit each other without having to keep taking holidays. It also means I can stay in the town I live and have made friends in. The downside is that I will still be on the op island to h, we will need to fly back n forth so finances will come into play, plus my job is physically causing me pain (but that will lesson when the season is over as right now i do a 9hr workout everyday and I am getting waaaay to old lol).
H says take it as it works for now and as things change between us then I can re address it. But I dont want to mess my boss around, he has been good enough to fight for me, I don't want to be disloyal to him. IDK, I am no good at this stuff.
Hi Lou, it's great that the store want to keep you, and if better hours are available, it might be best to stay put for a little while longer and see how it goes. That way you don't need to make big changes to your own life and have some opportunities to link with your H on a more frequent basis. I've had similar discussions with my boss. He is keen for me to stay, I'm not sure about my longer term plans and don't want to let them down. But even if you only stayed another nine months and decided to move on, where's the harm?
I can recall reading that drawing closer to your spouse again does bring out the feelings of anger. It is something to work through. Your H is working through a lot of stuff himself, so it may be tough for him to face your anger too. I think you are wise to let the small stuff go.
Take care Sweetie xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I really need to work on these anger feelings and being so vocally opinionated. I did not have a voice, he left, I had to harden up and its now gone the other way!! He says stuff like he does not regret leaving me or does not regret getting into a relationship so quickly and I see red. I don't understand his explanations and rationalizing so therefore find it hard to accept and let go of. All it does is make me wonder if he really is worth all this, if he deserves me. I know we need to find our harmony and that is going to take time. I also know that I need to calmly ask him to try and explain things in a different way - like with ow - his thought process is that he does not regret her because he understands now that he got into a relationship to avoid dealing with why he left me and the actual leaving me, if it wasn't for her and the disaster of them, he would not have got to the point that he is at now; he wishes he had not done it because it caused me more pain and hurt her, but he does not regret it ?? And he questions why I request he take the picture down for next time I visit - because yes it was a gift from her, but he just sees it as a nice picture, not as a reminder of her. He said, where does this stop - the clothes she has bought for me and I like, do I now need to chuck out my favorite jumper ....um yes !!! and now I will wonder if the jumper he is wearing came from her ....breathe breathe lol. Am I being unreasonable, is this one of the Let It Go times?
The reasoning behind going back to see his family has evolved, if only he had explained it the way he has eventually done. Its all about his family and reconnecting to them, letting them know he cares - something he has not done since we met 25yrs ago! - he does not want to be on a plane doing a mercy dash or worse still going to a funeral. Apparently these feeling all started in March when his young friend (22yrs) was killed in a car accident. This is about the same time he started having feelings and thoughts for me again and he started questioning everything. Maybe this is why spending Christmas as a family has become important to him.
V here are so right, it can take years for the mlc'er to come through this, even when they start to show signs of coming out of the tunnel it takes them a long time to come out into the sunshine again.
Lou, Your h is thinking out loud and saying things that he most likely would not have normally said (pre-crisis). I know you can't make sense of his comments, but he is thinking and trying to rationalize his behavior. Yes, it's frustrating, but this is all part of his crisis and yes, figuring things out for himself. This is where it takes a lot of patience, and I do mean a lot of patience to listen and keep the duct tape over the mouth moments.
He's truly still in crisis and doesn't understand why the picture needs to come down. He's still trying to navigate being a teenager and they truly do not understand why such things would hurt or annoy us...yes, things such as that up on the wall and in your face are reminders of what transpired...however, to them, they are just gifts and there are no emotional ties to them..
Going back and reconnecting w/his family is important in order for him to move forward. He needs to go back and reconnect w/them to better understand the why's, hows and whats of happened in his young life.
For now, sit quietly and the answers will come. Do not try to rush his process because he needs to go at his own pace and be able to express his thoughts. It appears that he feels safe in talking to you and yes, you are going to hear things that will make you angry and some that will hurt...but try to keep in mind that he is looking for the answers within.
Most importantly...breathe and keep those expectations at zero. You can't rationalize the irrational...so listen, only comment when asked your opinion and then try to let those conversations go because they may not make sense to you.
Yes, it takes a very long time for them to come through their crisis. When they begin the journey out of the crisis is where the really hard work begins not only for the MLCer, but the LBS as well. Why the LBS? Because we start to see some normalcy and we begin expecting certain things and yes, we begin to push and get frustrated that they aren't on or close to the same page that we are. This is where many possible reconciliations will fail because we lose our patience w/them. If you truly want your h back, give him the time he needs to heal and become a mature man that will be worth the wait.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi LouR- I just want you to know that I am so sorry. Words hurt and they can be very hard to forget.
However, he is saying that ow meant nothing to him. Try to choose to listen to those words! In fact, he even says that was a disaster. Don't give her the power over you and your thoughts. Of course if his empathy chip were not short circuited he would understand why these statements hurt you.
One of the things I read along the way and try to remember is that right now it is not possible for you two to meet each other's emotional needs. He is too immature yet. And as a grown woman, you need a man with a man's mind and heart.
As hard it is to keep your mouth shut, you will learn more if you can do it. I tried to treat my H like a case study in MLC vs. my husband. (I was doing a decent job at this--really he told me some CRAZY things! And I did learn a lot. But receipt of that letter derailed me and my interest in learning more. I suddenly felt like I had bought a ticket onto the Titanic and not in first class! I needed to set a boundary telling him he had gone far enough. It was TMI.)
Remember to hear that he is saying she was a disaster! You are leagues ahead of her. Focus on how you are the lighthouse...
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
For now, sit quietly and the answers will come. Do not try to rush his process because he needs to go at his own pace and be able to express his thoughts. It appears that he feels safe in talking to you and yes, you are going to hear things that will make you angry and some that will hurt...but try to keep in mind that he is looking for the answers within.
Most importantly...breathe and keep those expectations at zero. You can't rationalize the irrational...so listen, only comment when asked your opinion and then try to let those conversations go because they may not make sense to you.
When your right, your right, and you always are! Thank you. I allowed myself to get tangled up in his process. Its been easy to get drawn into this part of it, you warned me not to and I did, grrrrr. I have bought duct tape in bulk and the recipe for Cali's smoothies - just got to use them ha ha.
Originally Posted By: job
Yes, it takes a very long time for them to come through their crisis. When they begin the journey out of the crisis is where the really hard work begins not only for the MLCer, but the LBS as well. Why the LBS? Because we start to see some normalcy and we begin expecting certain things and yes, we begin to push and get frustrated that they aren't on or close to the same page that we are. This is where many possible reconciliations will fail because we lose our patience w/them. If you truly want your h back, give him the time he needs to heal and become a mature man that will be worth the wait.
I can quite see how many don't make it through this part of the process, it is sooooo frustrating and confusing. I know that I am in a position that many of us here would like to be in, so I am aware that I am lucky and I should not waste this opportunity. I don't seem to be doing a very good job of it so far, I know the theory but struggle with the practice !!
HaWho
Originally Posted By: HaWho
Remember to hear that he is saying she was a disaster! You are leagues ahead of her. Focus on how you are the lighthouse...
Its not her I have a problem with - Reality is she was a needy woman who decided that it was ok to get involved with a still married guy who had just got out of a very long r, she must have no self respect or morals. She turned out to be everything he dislikes in a woman and the disastrous s$x ha ha ha, - my sx2 both describe her as a crazy chick with serious issues, so how on earth can I compare myself to that - she made me look great !! Its what she represents that I have difficulty getting over - the pain of him choosing to move on, replace me, the fun fluffy good life he gave her (enough for her to still want him), which really stung, that destroyed me. That is what the picture and gifts represent - The pain and destruction he caused me.
Dear Lou, If it really was a fun fluffy good life, they would be together still, no? She's a mess and looking to stay in a dysfunctional relationship because that's what her "normal" is ... that's why she wants him back. She's flailing about trying to cling to anything. That's my read, anyway.
I don't think men and women look at these things the same way. Can you maybe let it go for today, not forever? What I mean is, you guys have so much more to work through, this is a bit of a distraction from the bigger things, no? I might be totally off base here, and hope I'm not overstepping ... I know these things are hurtful and I completely see your point of view and actually agree with it, but want to remind you to focus on the end goal/big picture. There will be time a plenty to buy him a new favorite jumper once he's finished baking in the MLC oven and come out the other side, right? Can you maybe put this on the back burner for now without feeling like you're compromising yourself? Am I making any sense? xoxoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Hi bttrfly, thank you so much for your thoughts - no you are not overstepping at all, its good to have different points of view.
As for the " ow stuff" subject, I have not mentioned it to h again since it came up. He agreed its one of the subjects we need to talk about, but more in the future. I don't even know why it came up, it was during the sparing match we had a couple of weeks ago, so much was said on both sides, I am honestly surprised he is still talking to me, angry argumentative Lou had come out to play that day ....to both our surprise ! I acknowledged I was out of order at times the next day and he replied that trying to put new versions of us together was going to be a bit trail and error but the fact we kept talking is a very positive sign. Since then we have kept things light and more fun.
By fluffy fun life, I mean he gave it to her, she didn't give it to him. He certainly had good times with her and enjoyed her company, which is how they got together in the first place. He speaks fondly of things he did with her and her kids, so its a part of his life that yes he looks back at as a failed relationship, but that it was not all bad. In time I am sure she will fade into the background to be a once in a while fleeting remembrance.
job is right, this is the challenging part and I am finding it difficult to keep a rein on not pushing him. Reality is that is that this is going to take months of patience, we are already at 7 months since he first told me he still has feelings for me and would like "us" back, its been 10 months since he started to be aware that something is not right with him. Time .....
So until then I have to try much harder to keep focus on me and my life. Not allow what is going on with him to affect my decisions too much. Things are changing, albeit slowly, he may come back different again from his visit to his family, this is being done on his time frame, I am trying to allow him to lead (even when he gets frustrated that I don't). I still have his visit at Christmas, I am looking forward to it, I haven't seen him since Oct when we met up for the first time. Still a bit concerned about him sleeping in with me, but know I have the ability to voice it if I don't feel comfortable at any time.
I had a 2x4 moment when I read Cali's latest updates, it really gave me a jolt back into the reality of my own sitch. I have become complacent, I know h is working on healing himself and moving towards an "us" again but is not a done deal and I really need to remember that.
The other post that resonated with me was by mleigh - about wanting a family unit and feeling safe within it. There has been a lot about Cake Eating and the time of year bringing them all out of the woodwork - it slightly worries me now that this is what h is doing - that coming to visit me for Christmas is about having his family around him as he misses it, not about wanting to see me and it happens to be Christmas. Last Christmas ow was on scene and it was all about her, this year its about his own family ....or is it? idk, its playing on my mind now.
So with all this in mind, I signed my new work contract. Its not my dream job and I don't intend staying it long term but its a really good deal. My new hours/days mean I now finish 7pm Friday and don't go back in till 1pm Monday. I have also negotiated flexi day Friday meaning I can do a half day on the weekends that I go visit h or h comes to me. On top of that I am to be given a mini me to cover my evenings/days off so that my dept runs at a constant level. Interviews started this week and I have been sitting in on them, getting a say in who the new person is. For someone who started as a cleaner in the company 7 months ago I feel I have done well. Hard work and lots of aches and pains later, I have successfully got a mon-fri job.
I mentioned the new contract to h, a couple days later he asked me about it. By then I had read Cali's update and signed it. I told him about the new proposal and what I had negotiated, he was so pleased for me and said I was worth it. I told him that I had signed the papers and it starts end of January, that I feel this is the right thing for me right now and as things change between us then I will re look at moving. He replied sounds good and it will look good on my cv and give me a great reference when I do leave. I replied " exactly, this is about laying the groundwork for future jobs" I said I am looking forward to seeing him next week and he replied he is looking forward to seeing me too.
Since then we have been texting quite a bit, just keeping it light and a bit silly at times. I feel that after this visit I won't mention seeing him again, let him make the next move, it will be interesting to see what he is like after visiting his family in the UK.
So for now my world continues to inch forward, sometimes its about me, sometimes its about h, I just keep muddling along as we do.
I had a nice newsy email from MIL, I am making more of an effort with the ILs now. We are skyping Christmas Day with them, they are so happy that h, the g/kids and me will be together.
Hope everyone having a good weekend, thanks for reading
Hi Lou, CONGRATULATIONS! You have worked so hard, I'm so proud of you!!! Great that the company recognizes what a jewel they have in you. That is terrific news for you my dear!
I'm glad things are moving along with H. I can completely understand your mindset. It makes sense that you are feeling wary. You've been through a lot with this man. I have no words of wisdom other than to keep doing what you're doing. We are all here for you.
sending you much love xoxoxoxoxo Bttrfly
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Lou, Congratulations on your new work contract. Sounds like your management knows that they have a jewel of an employee, i.e., hard worker who is pleasant and willing to go the extra mile.
I'm glad things are going well w/the back and forth texting, etc., w/your h. I hope and pray that the holidays are not the reason for the activity that he is exhibiting right now, i.e., texting frequently, etc. Try not to allow your mind to wander into the dark forest concerning his reconnection w/his family. If he does reconnection during the holidays, this is a good first step for him to finding himself and understanding his own family dynamics.
I'm glad that you and your MIL stay in touch.
Happy Holidays to you and your family! May 2016 bring you much peace, love and joy.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Lou. Congratulations on your job contract. I am glad to see you made a choice for YOU. Good job.
I think the fact that your H has stated he wants to work things out and is actually showing that effort by getting his IC help, changes the dynamics of him wanting to spend the holidays together. Same with the extra contact. I don't see that as cake eating, I see it as part of the process. Enjoy it, try not to think of it as anything different then what it is.
Happy to hear your update, you sound good
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Hey Lou, congratulation on the new contract! Great job negotiating what you wanted!
Don’t get discouraged by the development with H’s family. Remember what they say, when reconnection happens, the spouse is the last one, after MLCer reconnects with his friends, family and the kids. Should I mention the dogs, LOL.
You are doing great! And thanks for stopping by to cheers me up.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
These two words been on a continuous loop playing in my head for 3 days lol.
First of all, thanks you all for the job congrats -
So to Christmas: Christmas was lovely, spent 3 days with h, s21, s18 and their g/friends, oh and not forgetting our 2 dogs!
Everyone played nice, we had a lot of fun, it felt normal. H and I got along fine ....lots of duct tape from me ... not much affection for the first couple of days, but I understand that, especially after our first meet and the issues it bought up for him . We managed to get a few alone times and they were nice, sometimes felt like a date (which is kinda fun) and sometimes I forgot we are not together. H bought us all tickets to see Star Wars, we sat next to each other and when the lights went down he held my hand for the entire movie, something he used to do. The sleeping arrangements ended up with me asking h outright if he was ok with me sleeping au natural or would he be happier with me wearing p'js, he replied naked is fine with him, he also slept naked. Nothing happened, stayed on our own sides ....until this morning ...ended up cuddling, which led to kissing, which led to s3x, I won't say ML as it really was a morning quickie, it just happened, I have not read anything into it, but at least the first time is out of the way. Until he talks to me about it I won't know if it has caused any more issues to rise (excuse the pun ha ha) ...more duct tape. I was not sure how I would react when we first had s3x, I wondered if I would be able to get past the image of h with another w, but she didn't come into it, it was just us. Perhaps because it was from an emotionally charged place, there was no time to think, so if this happens again on a more sedate pace, then I may feel differently -
We wont have much contact over the next couple of weeks while he is away, so that should give him time to process everything that has happened over the past couple of days.
In another story, I bought s18's car, its a 1980's classic, I asked h if he wants to do it as a joint project, he was keen (I think he would more like to have bought the car from me but I won't release ownership, long story but I have ended up buying this car twice now, so it feels right for me to own it) S21 is driving it (fingers crossed it makes it) to h's today, so it will give h a project, I am not car enthusiast at all so this is a new area for me, I am trying hard to be interested in what h is interested in (something I have not been before), he seems happy with the arrangement and has talked about what he feels what needs doing and why ....might as well be telling me how to build a spaceship, but I nod and look engaged, my input will be on the cosmetic side to it.
As for how I am feeling. I feel ok, calm. I know we have a long way to go, it is very easy to get caught up in trying to move this forwards before the right time. I did really well over the break and did not mention r at all, rolls and rolls of duct tape. It came up fleetingly in general conversation, but it was not heavy, it was more once sentence comments more than questions. As for the s3x, I feel ok, I hope it wasn't purely a detached physical act for him, he knows it could trigger off mass guilt so I am sure it would have needed to feel right - I am over thinking, stop it. It was nice, we were close and I didn't feel used, so does it matter?
And now I'm wondering why I didn't ask for gobs and gobs of duct tape for Christmas??!!!!?
Wow.
and WOW!
Lou, you are unbelievable, and I mean that in the best of all possible ways. So real, so true to yourself, so here I am.
Ok, I am in awe. Sounds like you just kept it all light and in the moment. I struggle with that so much. How do you do it?
You are right, it was nice, you were close, you don't feel used so no, it doesn't matter ... whatever happens will happen. But what a difference a year makes, huh? You've worked so hard on yourself, Lou and it shows. H deserves props too because he's doing hard work also. I know you guys have a ways to go, but I do so hope and pray it will all work out with you being together again and stronger than ever. You are in my prayers a lot, you and your man.
sending you much much love xoxoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Hi Lou, I'm glad to hear how the visit went. I've been wondering about you, so glad to get an update. It sounds as though you did well just to go with the flow and keep re-applying the duct tape. I'm sure it will be best for you to take the visit for what it was and keep moving forward. Your H will still be processing things and may go around one or two loops. But if you remain steady and sure, that's fine.
Good for you Sweetie xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I am very happy to see that Christmas went well. His visit will be replayed over and over in his head the next few weeks because he has nothing but wonderful memories to think about, i.e., you and your sons.
No wonder we couldn't find any duct tape at the store...you purchased it all! LOL!
Lou, continue to allow life to unfold slowly. Don't rush the process. It's like watching a tulip unfold and open into a beautiful flower, i.e., at it's own pace. You can do this. You've shown a lot of patience over the last year and I think you can be patient a bit longer. I know it's frustrating because you want this over and done w/right now, but he's still got some time left in the oven and it may take a couple of months or another year, but when he comes out, hopefully he will be a more stable, mature man.
As long as you didn't feel used...then what does it matter?
2016 is right around the corner, i.e., a new year, new resolutions and new beginnings. It's going to be an interesting year for you.
Happy New Year!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Wow LouR, I am so very impressed by how you handled your holiday. After all that you have been through, I was wondering how you would show restraint through it all. But you leaped beyond that and showed him such compassion. Amazing!
I am sure there were many times you were tempted to do lots of other things with that duct tape: give your h a full body wax, tape him and leave him to a tree, etc. The possibilities are endless.
What an amazing job you did of making him feel safe and loved. You are a good woman, LouR. And yes, I am sure he left with warm memories.
By the way, I am just curious if your h has yet indicated that he knows what happened to him? I know he is seeing a therapist. Has he hinted that this was a MLC or even a weird depression? I know he has told you that he is trying to figure out why he made the decisions he made but I am not sure he has pinned a name to it all?
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
By the way, I am just curious if your h has yet indicated that he knows what happened to him? I know he is seeing a therapist. Has he hinted that this was a MLC or even a weird depression? I know he has told you that he is trying to figure out why he made the decisions he made but I am not sure he has pinned a name to it all?
His therapist has told him this is called Mid Life Transition, which I believe is a nicer way of saying MLC. He has also said this is not depression as he is able to function in his daily life (ie, work, hobbies, running a home) which people in depression tend not to be able to do as every part of life becomes overwhelming, where as he is battling with overwhelming feelings and thoughts.
He has said he will open up more as he learns how to, plus he does not want to talk about things that are happening in his head right now as they may not be here to stay, they may only be transient issues, I understand this, why tell me something that could potentially harm "us" when it may not actually be a part of him that stays. I do know some of the topics that are going on inside him, they are very messed up, to the point I am not sure I would want to be with him if they are staying -
Control seems to be a big one. He NEEDS to be in control. He uses control and manipulation at work, its why he is fantastic at his job and he earns the big bucks, but he brings it into his relationships and that causes him to damage them. Losing control over his thoughts/feelings has manifested into other things,so the theory is to make sense of his feelings/thoughts and learn how to let go of control and then all the issues that have come along as a result should fade.
Trying to put us back together before he has done this spells disaster. He knows that therapy will need to be a continual part of his life so he can have an outlet to talk about his feelings in a safe place and to have sanity checks that what he is thinking is normal.
Hey, Lou, I’m so happy to read about your Christmas holiday. Great job on applying the duct tape, LOL. It seems that you were pretty comfortable just to enjoy the moment.
Your H is very lucky to have you. He is also very lucky to have a great therapist, who understands what he is going through. I hope your H will be able to work through his issues and come out of this a better partner for you. You deserve this, Lou!
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Adding Handcuffs to my box of items to carry with me at all times ...and not the red fluffy kind ...that's maybe a hopeful step too far he he.
This is more a vent and wanting opinions post.
So after a very nice Christmas with h he flew off to the UK to spend 10 days with his family - we put a messaging app on our phones so that we can stay in touch while he is away. He messaged me on NYE my time (which is 13 hrs ahead of him) which was a nice thought, although I get the impression it was a blanket message to all his NZ friends, so maybe not that a special thought, although I could be wrong. I acknowledged it and then messaged him at midnight his NYE, he did not see it until morning saying he was alseep - however I know he was online at midnight as the app tells me. He connected a few mins before midnight and stayed online until just afterwards. Since then I have had nothing from him, is he really telling me I have not crossed his mind at all?
I got an email from FIL today thanking me for his b/day card and saying that H has made a surprise visit to see his mum and that he was in on it and happy that they did not get rumbled. He then proceeded to tell me the story of how the surprise came about and how it all went down (which I already know as I was in on it from the start and the one who suggested that h contact his s/dad for help pulling it off). He then told me about the visit, how its going, what they have been doing - so h has not mentioned me at all, not even that I know he is there ?? I get that he doesn't want to tell them how friendly we are now, but to not mention that I was in on the surprise or that we are good friends, enough to spend Christmas together (which they know as they skyped with us on Christmas Day), well that's bizarre and a reminder of just how la la he still is.
As you can imagine, despite trying to keep detached, I have felt a little disappointed that h has not said hello while away, no thought I would like to hear from him. I am fed up with feeling like a toy that he gets out and plays with when he fancies and then chucks back in the box when he has found something better to do.
So to this end I have thought about how I want things to go when he returns. I no longer want to be the one who pushes this along, it was him who broke us, so why should it be me that fixes us? Is that an unreasonable expectation?
When he returns I am thinking of withdrawing my attention a bit (well a lot actually), allowing him to do the contacting, keeping my answers short and no information about what is going on in my life. I want him to be the one who suggests meeting up again and start making the moves towards me - and yes, he may just retreat and not bother, but then at least I will know where I stand.
Is this a good idea or am I just reacting to his lack of attention and regard for me, is it a silly idea which will only confuse and make him think I have lost interest ...or am peeved with him treating me badly ...which I am, but know that I must not say it to him. Or do I tell him I feel I am being treated badly; he did tell me to say if I ever feel he is doing so.
He is back this weekend, I know he will let me know he is home safely so I need to think about how I proceed from here.
Sorry for the jumbled rambled, just thinking out loud and no one to talk it through with - well no one that would be impartial anyway !!
Hi Lou, I recon this is all about the fact that MLCers can't really handle more than one thing at a time well. For him, his visit to the UK is a big thing and he can really only focus his energy on that or it is all too draining. Trying to keep the other ball of 'keep in touch with Lou' up in the air, may just be asking too much.
Again, I think you may be best to operate from a perspective of - take what you get when you get it and be glad. Otherwise, focus on your own stuff. I think you are falling into the trap of expecting him to operate as a committed partner and he has already said that he doesn't have that to offer just now as he really needs to get himself sorted out. I think the family trip is part of the 'sorting out.'
It is good that he was in touch at New Year and clearly you were on his mind then. It's also good that you had a good Xmas. In terms of approach, if you can manage a combination of gently withdrawing and doing your own stuff - and pleasant responding (maybe with a little initiating?) that would be ideal I think. Do remember that he is still mid-crisis here and also tackling the family visit too...
I can appreciate the disappointment though - but again I think it is just a bend in the road and one of those times to give a little space (for you both...)
Hope this helps and take care of yourself. Do you have any nice things planned just for Lou? Xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Lou, I am in total agreement w/Sotto. Your h is still in crisis and as Sotto pointed, out, they can only focus on one thing at a time, especially when it comes to dealing with people. It's not that he's forgotten you, but he's still compartmentalizing things and until he can get himself sorted out, that's most likely the way he'll continue to operate.
I wouldn't be in too big of a hurry to post to him when he posts, i.e., take your time about it. I would post to him once in a while, especially if it's about something you know that will interest him, but keep the posts short and light. Too much posting may send him back down into the rabbit hole. Allow him to come to you. I think the holiday may have set you up for a little bit of "expectation" and when it didn't happen you were just a wee bit disappointed. Lou, his brain is still scrambled and he could only handle one thing at a time and it's not about him forgetting you...he didn't.
Try to keep the focus on you and yes, dig deeper for patience. His reconnection is going to take a lot of time and he's still not ready to come out of the oven on a permanent basis.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Lou, it could also be that the closeness and intimacy over the Xmas period has spooked him a little and he's popped back into his hole for a little safety. If so, I'm sure he will emerge again soon as he has consistently shown his desire to reconcile.
I think if you can act 'as if' you are okay with giving him (and yourself) a little space after your nice visit, that will be the best plan. Ask yourself whether him coming back and you saying - hey, I needed you to stay in touch more! - is going to help or hinder.
Take care my friend xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Thank you for your thoughts Sotto and job. Its good to have a place to talk things through, it stops me from reacting first and thinking second.
I get your advice, I would not want to make h feel guilty that he did not contact me - that was the old me - I also want to know that when he does contact me its because he wants to, not because he feels he has too. I would always wonder which is the case. So no guilt trips.
On another note I kicked s18 and g/friend out NYE, long story but I am fed up with being taken for granted and feeling like a lodger in my own home. Both of them gained part time work and despite many requests for help with rent and bills they always seemed to play the pauper card, so when I came home to find a brand new xbox in my living room that they had brought in the sales it was the last straw. They left, moved into a house share with a friend, s18 did not talk to me for 3 days and then arrived home alone to pick up some of their things and we talked, smoothed things over, I told him I dont ever want him to think he cant come to me for anything and I am always here for him. He replied that he knows that and is sorry he is such a crappy son and treated me so badly especially after everything I have done for him (coming back to NZ to help him out, loaning him money for car, keeping roof over his head and food in the cupboard) and he will come to me if need be, he also said it was the push they needed and they should learn to stand on their own.
In the past (pre bd) I would have contacted h and blasted him with it all, make him feel guilty he is not here to help me (he was away a lot with work), he would have felt helpless and really bad that he was not at home. But this time, even though we are on friendly terms and co parenting, I have not let him know about what has happened and have asked s18 to not tell him until he is back from his holiday. I see that what I was doing pre bd was unfair on h, he couldn't do anything, only listen to an upset wife and feel helpless. I have dealt with it and it has turned out fine so no need to involve h at all.
I see now that I am able to take control of a situation, the world does not come to an end and I can cope with things on my own. To make h feel bad was unfair and so wrong of me. Its a good change in me.
Work wise; its tough. This week I have been playing catch up from NY onslaught of shoppers, but as always I have managed it. I have a trainee this week, she is my new support person that will cover my days off. She is not the candidate I choose, I am finding it challenging trying to teach someone who just does not "get it", but my new patience and perseverance skills that I am gaining through this MLC journey are helping me stay calm with her. Next week I am giving her a shift to run, so she will either sink or swim - The downside to all these changes is that management have been so impressed by how my dept coped with Christmas (apparently its the best for many years) that they feel I am more than capable of taking on some more responsibilities so with my new hours comes new tasks - I wonder if they are seeing how far they can push me before I break !! I will of course achieve them, failing is not a word I use often. I also look at it as more for my cv and that I don't intend being in the job this time next year so all this is for me is experience and a good reference.
Sotto - you asked me about GAL. That is on the backburner, it takes my two days off to recover from work, I am generally in considerable pain by the end of the week so its mostly relaxing, a walk on a beach and my grocery shop. I know that needs to change, h will become to much of a focus for me if I dont. My new hours/days no longer fit with g/friends so I really need to come up with something. I have booked time off end of Feb (unfortunately unpaid as I have used all my holidays, which means I now have to save over the next 6 weeks to make up the lost wage - no worries, just wont eat ha ha) I am going on a road trip with my AirForce Sisters (4 airforce wives ....only I am no longer airforce, but once sisters, always sisters), a week of laughing, wine and fun. I am very much looking forward to it, although I do struggle with being the only single one and listen to their "couple" stories, I also am funding this trip solo so they have good income to splash and I have to be careful - they are generally understanding, but do tend to forget and I find it hard to have to remind them as its a reminder for me too.
I finally made my cushion covers the other day, I bought the material and sewing machine way back last year !! They look great so am now thinking about my next project.
Anyway, thank you for your support and advice, I have taken it on board and know that this lack of attention, whilst hard on me, should not be taken as personal, its just h not being able to cope with more than one thing at a time. Next it will be the car !!! Sigh lol.
Hi LouR - just want to drop in to offer encouragement. First, kudos to you on taking the time to improve yourself. That is hard work and takes so much honesty and self awareness. Nice job! And, while it is so difficult, nice work on setting those boundaries for yourself within your own home.
You are an inspiration!
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Hello dearest Lou. I love the self-awareness and your clear-eyed assessment of what you did in the past and what you are doing now in contrast, the owning of your responsibilities.
I had some of that same realization with the latest roof leak. I too used to call H and blast him with it all, not realizing what feelings it would bring up in him. We can only do better from here, eh?
I love your attitude about work. Very long-range/big picture. Perfect perspective to get you through. Great job! Keep going!!!! I love it!
Oooooh, wish we could see your cushions! I cannot sew, Lou. I can do many many things, but alas, not sewing and not hanging things on walls (not without chipped plaster and a million zillion holes in the wall). I wish I could though. How about some matching curtains as the next project?
Your upcoming time off sounds like it will be fun with a few challenges thrown in. But you will get through it all with flying colors Lou. You're amazing! xoxoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Its been a couple of weeks since my last update, I dont have much to tell you really, so its just a bit of journaling instead.
Decisions:
Its been a very up and down time emotionally, I feel all over the place. I think my biggest problem has been Decisions - being so indecisive. As a child/teen my mother controlled my decisions, she made them all for me, then I met h and he did the same, it was normal to me, maybe that is why I was drawn to him. So when h left me I was thrown into having to make decisions for myself. I struggle with it, the fear of making bad ones has me sitting in indecision which I know is not a good place to be. I read this week that indecision is in itself a decision, its a choice, I am choosing not to decide and therefore risking losing out on possible great things in my life. I feel that living in my current limbo is making me worse, I have a bad case of the "what if's" !!
Last week I had a terrible week at work, I can't seem to get my new support person to have the same work ethic as me, her productivity level is low and her speed just getting from a-b is tortoise pace, it drives me insane. A colleague explained to me that I work at a higher level than most and should not expect others to follow suit ....zero expectations ha ha.
On top of all that I decided after months of indecision (!!) to go and see my Dr about a mole that has appeared and changed over the past year. He has referred me to a skin specialist, my appoint is mid feb. While I was there he noticed I have not been to see him since 2014 so decided to do full blood work and asked if anything else was causing me troubles - I mentioned my fingers and knees being in pain, said I presume its a bit of RSI and before I knew it he was looking at my hands and talking arthritis. It looks like I have osteoarthritis in my fingers and knees, my left hand being the worst - swelling around the joints. Blood tests confirm its not any other type so I now have to have a x-ray to confirm but he is pretty confident that this is what is causing the pain. So I am now taking Glucosamine, Chondroitin and fish oils to try and slow down the process. Getting old su$ks !!
As for h - he text me the day after he arrived back in NZ safely. He text me again in the week, just chit chat stuff, I had no idea what to say to him so it ended up a short conversation. He rang me Sunday 17th, he wanted to talk about our car project, saying its not cost effective and thinks we should cut our losses with it. He also told me that s21 has moved in with him to save money for a trip. He said its not ideal but he will be away a lot with work over the coming year so having a dog sitter will be handy. He talked about the things he has planned for the next few weekends - a buskers championships, camping , going to visit a friend. He mentioned skyping with his mum, said she is doing ok. I replied that that was good and that FIL had emailed to tell me about his surprise visit and how its gone down well with everyone - h replied "I guess so". Odd answer, that's the problem with texts, no tone to the speech.
And that was the last I heard from him, he has gone into his world again. There has been no mention of seeing me again, no talk of xmas or his trip. I have not asked and he has not offered. The last time he went this quiet he had met someone else, she was his new focus. Nothing I can do about it if he has, it will be the end of the road for me if there is a new ow .....oh look, I made a decision lol
I don't know if he is doing what he did once before - waiting for me to inciate the contact - he pointed out that its always him so will wait for me to "give in". Its like he is testing me to see if I am still interested and I am sitting back and waiting him for him to show me the action and prove this wanting to be in my life is not just words from him. The funny thing is ...and I know I am rambling on in a nonsensical way ... that if I get in contact he will be as polite as always, and if he contacts he will say something bright and breezy like How's you day going; like we only spoke yesterday, not over a week ago ! IDK, are we in a Mexican stand off now lol.
On top of all this I have had a look at my finances and savings for my girls trip end of Feb and see that I can't really afford or justify the cost of it. I want to go, I really do, I know it will be a lot of fun and laughing, but at the cost of my low bank balance. The right thing and utterly sensible thing to do is to not go, face up to the fact that this is my life now; living paycheck to paycheck. I have saved some each week, but not really enough for the trip - well not enough for their kind of trip, I dont want the pressure to spend more than I have and I dont want to spoil their holiday by asking them not to do the things they want to do. They have the luxury of partners and income, I haven't, its a reality that slaps me in the face quite often at the moment.
So with all this going on, I got very very drunk on Friday night ...alone ...this is not good. Thankfully my wonderful g/friend in the uk was online and kept me company all night. The following night her and my other wonderful g/friend also got drunk and spent the whole evening trying to get me to fly back to the UK so they can look after me - bless them lol.
So back to decisions -
What to do about work: the damage its causing me, but I need income. What to do about my trip: I so need some time out, but can't really afford it. What to do about h: Do I contact him with a hi, hows your day going, or do I remain quiet, taking the silence as him processing whatever he has going on in his head. What to do about going to the UK: I could do this, take a sabbatical for a couple of months, I put enough away for an emergency flight and my g/friends would put me up, I could pick up some casual work for spending money.
So far I have come up with June. Giving myself until June to decide what I want to do. June is 2 years since he left, 1 year since he told me he wants me and its my b/day month, another year older.
I know I can't keep going along like this, feeling this way, living this joyless life, its not a life, its an existence, always waiting to see what is around the corner. It obvious that h is still deep in C, his peek outs seems to be less often now, I have no idea what he wants anymore, I am not convinced he does either.
Okay, well re reading this it is just a long ramble and jumble of thoughts. Just remembered I have work today lol. So off to do battle with another day. Sorry its so long, a lot going around in my head right now.
Lou, I'm sorry to read about your health issues. If you are wearing heels to work, then you will need to start wearing flats that have a good sole/support on them for hitting the concrete/tile floors. Also, I discovered for myself, that if I ate foods that had a lot of salt in them, my knees would hurt. I don't know if that would happen to you, but you might want to pay closer to attention to what you are eating to see if something is making your knees and fingers hurt more. The OTC meds didn't work for me.
I ended up having a partial left knee replacement 3 years ago this month because of the same situation that you are in. I'm doing great and there is no pain in the knee now. The surgeon advised me that my right knee will need to be done when it starts to give me a fit...but for now...it's okay.
As for your h, he is no where near ready to recommit to you and the marriage. He's still looking to you as a friend and someone he can talk to about things. I am going to suggest that you text or call him once in a while. Not every day, but at least once a week.
As for your trip w/your girlfriends, if you don't have the funds, I would be honest w/them about your situation and cancel the trip. You can't put yourself in a financial bind right now because you don't know if you'll need what you have socked away for an emergency.
For now, I think you need to focus on your health issues and see what your options are for some relief to your knees and fingers. BTW, stress doesn't help when it comes to our health (I know you know this already...but just a reminder.)
Lou, it's okay to try something different w/your h. We advise here that if something isn't working, try something different and see what kind of reaction, if any, you'll get, i.e., positive or negative.
Please take care of yourself and get some really good flats to wear. Your high heel days are pretty over because of your knees for now.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi job, thank you so much for your reply and advice.
I am going at near running speed all day to keep up with deliveries and am up and down ladders putting excess stock away so I wear trainers, they have a memory foam insole to cushion the impact. At the moment the pain is when I go to sit or stand, really feeling it more after being still for a while. My hands are the worst though - they feel hot and when I make a fist it feels like I am wearing really tight gloves. a couple of joints are starting to look deformed (dr suspects spur growth) and are painful to touch. My job has exasperated it, the repetitive motion of handling small items all day long. The lesson learnt in not to wait so long going to a dr when something is troubling me !!
Good idea re diet, I will look into it. Its all a bit new to me so will need to read up. Just getting my head around it, 45 and my body has had enough already ! I know it means I cant stay in my job, its aggravating it and I need to think of my future, I hopefully still have a few years left in me and would prefer to spend it as active as possible !
As for h, it taken a while for me to see it and I know that you drum it in to us all about zero expectations, but any glimmer of hope he gives does tend to get me going further ahead than he can give me, I do feel this is a normal reaction, we are emotional beings and I would rather feel them than be void of them. He has said he wants me and us and this is what he is working towards so I have to have faith and trust that this is indeed what he is doing and over time this will become evident. It is hard though, he came forward all guns blazing and 6 months later we are no further forward, boy, when you say this re connection process is long you sure do mean it !!
As for g/friend trip. Yesterday I thought, nah, I will go, what the heck. But today, I know that its not the right thing, I worked out how much I need to save for Feb bills without the trip included and like you point out job, what if I have an emergency. Yes they will understand if I don't go and I would not want to hold them back doing extravagant things because of me, I would also feel really bad if they chipped in to help me out; whilst a lovely gesture I am not a charity case, this is my reality right now and they and I have to accept - hopefully one day my position will change. It will be hard seeing all the fun photos they post, but it is what it is.
I have decided though to still take the time off. Its unpaid as I used my holiday up last year, but I feel I need some time off to allow my body to have a break, its telling me it needs it. I have saved enough to cover the lost wage and cover my feb bills, so anything I save from now will be able to go into my emergency pot.
Lou, I hear you on the knees! I went through that for about 8 years thinking it was a tendon issue until one day, I had to sit and try to figure out how I was going to walk to my car in a shopping mall lot. Nothing wears you down like pain. I wish that I had more to offer you in the way of info, but I can only tell you what I had discovered about my own situation. Are you taking any Aleve or Advil? They helped me with the pain.
I agree, the job you are in isn't helping your joints! Since you are now aware of what's going on, it might be time to start searching for new employment. Do you have any idea what you may be able to do and not aggravate your condition further?
I think some time off will help your body to heal and hopefully cut down on some of the stressors too. Please take care of yourself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Just done a hard phone call. Told my g/friends I wont be joining them on the trip. It was a hard conversation to blurt out, but I have done it now and actually whilst I am gutted I am not going, I feel relieved. I know it is the right decision for me.
Thank you so much on the advice re my joints. I take Nuramol (a mix of paracetamol and ibuprofen) when the pain is unbearable, but I am trying not to take anything if I don't have to, I dont want to become reliant. I have just read that salt, sugar and alcohol are triggers - well that's my life over ha ha.
As re your thoughts on h I text him this morning, just to say hi. As i mentioned before, he is all bright and breezy, like we only spoke a few days ago ! Will leave it at there and let him carry on with his day.
I'm sorry you had to make the call to your g/friends, but I do think it was a wise decision considering the fact that you didn't all enough money stashed away for the trip at this time. There will be another time to go w/them and you will be feeling much better by then (hopefully).
I didn't want to mention sugar to you because I didn't want to bring you down on all of those "good" things we like to add to our diet. Try to reducing the amount of each of the items and start drinking more water and see if that helps some. I know that when I reduced all of them, my "joints" felt better.
I hope that your h finishes baking up and make a move toward reconnecting completely. It does take a long time for this to happen and generally people get so discouraged the opt for moving on and leaving the crisis people in their rabbit hole.
Again, please take care of yourself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Lou, I am sorry to hear that you had to cancel your trip and that you are having some hard times at work. I was going to say that I would probably still take a vacation, even if I would have to pay some debt later. But, it is me. I am glad that you got some relieve after talking to your GFs.
Have you ever tried the celery juice? It had a lot benefits, plus it is used as an anti-inflammatory for the joints specifically. I take it when I have some inflammation due to gout (I’m a red wine drinker.) My sister and her H also swear by it. All you need to do is buy a bunch of celery (I’m talking North American celery stalks) and put it through the juicer, if you have one. You can google what makes it so special in reducing the joint inflammation. Another thing I’ve been taking is turmeric supplement, which is also very powerful anti-inflammatory natural remedy for any inflammation in your body. I buy it in powder and put a tea spoon in my juice every morning. I like the taste, but I’m weird this way, I like all kinds of natural herbal/earthy tastes. You can also get it pills. You need to do it consistently though to get the benefit. Ibuprofen can be taken up to 6 capsules a day for a few days (2 capsules 3 times a day.) There is no dependency risk. You can try it for a couple of weeks and give it a break. I know this because my sister is a nurse.
As for the contact with H, I agree with job. Maybe send a friendly text once a week, asking him how he is doing. I would not do more than that. He needs to be the one to come to you. All you have to do is to show him that you are open to a R with him.
Take care of yourself.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Hi Lou, I'm sorry to hear about your health troubles. I always think it is worth reading to see if you can make any lifestyle or diet changes that will help. Also, as you say, the job sitch may add to your pain and a change might benefit you.
Sorry about the trip, but glad you will still take some time off. Hopefully you can do some gentle and nourishing things on a small budget and still enjoy yourself.
As for H, it is so useful to read the sitches of others and see how things unfold. As you say, months ago H was fully 'in' and now seems to be processing again. I would just give him some space, dropping in every so often to say hi or send him some light anecdote or news. Time will tell how things will unfold further.
Take care, and good to hear an update - I've been thinking about you xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Lou babe, been thinking about you! Yes, I would say you have to trust him now. Not easy I know, enough already, right? Let's get on with it? I feel that way sometimes anyway about my h, but they have to go thru their process all the way or it just won't work. So I'm rather hesitant to go all herbalist here, but ... diet is key. There are those who advocate elimination diets, removing sugar, wheat/gluten, diary and eggs for a time then slowly reintroducing them, one at a time so you can see what your body reacts to and how. I've done it. I used to have chronic clicking noise in my knee when I walked up the stairs. After eliminating sugar and gluten it went away. I also have a lot of fine capillaries in my face, so I usually have a rosy glow ... that went away also, thankfully. The world doesn't need more red faced women of a certain age! Tumeric, as Bright said, is a great anti-inflammatory. Solomon Seal and Horsetails are also wonderful. Solomon seal oil topically is great to help with the pain. Tiger Balm salve is also great. Solomon seal tea or tincture internally are also good. Now I'm to the point where I've added gluten and sugar back and I realize I do NOT like how I feel. Aside from adding extra pounds, ugh, anytime I have refined sugar my anxiety level spikes. Same with caffeine ... makes my anxiety level go off the charts. It's not how I want to live my life and there are plenty of delicious alternatives like cinnamon and cacao to take the place of both. And sure enough, my joints ache with the gluten. It's all information; what we choose to do with it is up to us. One other great help to me is medicinal mushrooms, namely chaga. Something about chaga really tends to help those with arthritis, plus it is anti-carcinogenic. Many of the anti-inflammatories are also anti-carcinogenic. funny that, eh?
While I know the conversation couldn't have been easy I'm glad you opted out and are also still able to take some time off. I've done the retail gig, it killed me in my 20s when I was a heck of a lot more fit than I am now. It's a brutal job. Take as many mini breaks during the day as you can. Try to stretch, especially your hands and arms. You are way too young to be going through all this. Maybe your body is encouraging you to think about some different occupation. You're getting great experience. What about becoming a buyer? Is that a natural progression?
Anyway, sending you happy thoughts and {{{hugs}}}
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Thank you job, Bright, Sotto and bttrfly for your advice and support.
job - yep sugar, giving that up will be a hard one. As for the reconnection stage - I do know that the slower it goes the more chance we have, but I can see why so many give up at this point, the forwards backwards standstill dance is very frustrating !!
Bright - I was very tempted to go on the girls trip, however it would have meant spending all I have saved leaving nothing for emergencies. As I spent most of my married life living in debt I vowed not to go down that route ever again - apart from a mortgage which I dont count as debt. I don't have a credit card or overdraft for that reason, so my trip would be purely funded on my savings; when its gone its gone. Its a holiday for all of us and the majority are cash rich and want to do the extavagant long lunches at wineries, a mini cruise and various other activities, it would not have been fair on them to ask them to dial it back for me or fair on me to feel pressure into keeping up with them, so the best thing to do is for me to not go. I feel sad I cant go, but it is my reality right now, more so with my latest health issue; if I have to take time off then I will need savings to cover it.
Thank you for the ibuprofen information, I am trying to only take it when I really need it - generally I pop a couple before my 2hr face up (making my dept look pretty for the following day) at the end of the night because that's really fiddly and by then my hands have really had it and are in a lot of pain. I see the dr again mid feb so will talk to him about pain relief as I am now waking in the night with painful, hot hands - they feel swollen and tight, yet are not visibly so.
Sotto - thank you, you always say such lovely things to me and give advice and a kick up the butt when needed. I text h, just a "hi hows your day" chit chat, he responded the same and prob gave him a memory jog that I still exist.
bttrfly - thank you for your kind words and thoughtful information. At this point I will look at anything to help with the symptoms and slow things down.
As for job change - easier said than done. Yes I have looked at becoming a buyer but my knowledge is not great enough yet. My problem is that I don't have a great cv, I have only been working 9 months ! And yes, I know I have had a promotion within that time, but its all manual labour and that is where I am placed at the moment. To get into something less active and strenuous on my body I will have to train in something, and this is where I am stuck, I have no idea what I can or want to do, nothing appeals to me. I am very much Blur at the moment. My friends keep telling me counselling, but I feel I am far to opinionated and impatient for that. I am very much a doer' I like to be doing something active, I get bored very easily so variety is good for me.
School begins again in a couple of weeks after the summer break, so if I am going to train in something I need to make a decision very soon. I can't think right now, my head is mush lol.
Thanks to everyone for your kind thoughts and support.
well, this is kind of "out there" but i've known it to work for me and others, so you may consider giving it a try:
try asking the universe for guidance just before you go to sleep. ask to have some answers provided to you in your dreams and (this is the important part, lol) ask to be able to remember it when you wake up!!!
heck, what do you have to lose?
xoxoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
You know, its not as "out there" as you think. I was once told to write a question on a piece of paper just before I go to bed, then read it out aloud to my spirit guides, giving them the sign I want to see for yes and the sign for no, then put the paper under my pillow. I did do it - it was in the early days of all this, so of course my question was "will h come back to me". Lol.
note: you may need to do this a few days in a row. if you have any mugwort handy, that's good for working with dreams. problem is it's not good for restful sleep so don't use it on a school night, lol xoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Lou- so good to catch up on your posts. I know that your job is physically demanding and yet you still run at full speed even with a bum knee. Try not to push it too much. Easier said than done I know...just try to keep things steady so you don't irritate your joints.
As for H, I am thrilled you had a good trip. Sounds like H is MIA but you can just focus on yourself for a bit. You can handle this beautiful friend.
(((Hugs)))
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
Gwen !!! Hello :o) How are you my friend, its about time we had an update from you. I miss you !! Thank you for your kind words.
bttrfly - so glad you got an answer to your question. If you asked for it to be revealed within a dream then that is how it would be. I ask for specific signs to be shown the following day. So far nothing has come to me, perhaps that's my answer - Do Nothing ?
Not much to update, I have been keeping up with everyone's posts, I currently feel that I dont have anything to offer or add, but know that I am thinking of you all.
s19 has moved back home, long story - he was going to move down to his dads, but changed his mind. Came to me last week and he was looking terrible, he admitted to the chest pains and zoning out being back, he is stressed out with worrying about pretty much everything, life had become overwhelming and he now sees what a good deal he had with me. I could not in all conscience leave him to carry on in this way, having him learn a lesson is one thing, but having him getting sick over it is another. So I told him he could move home, ground rules are that g/friend does not live with us anymore, she can stay 2 nights a week. He is to contribute to the household income and respect me and my home. 3 days later I come home from work to find him fully moved back in lol.
Health front - nothing new. I have my skin appt next week and also a follow up with dr about my hands and knees. My hands are the worst, the joints on my fingers extremely painful to touch and stiff most of the time now. I can no longer make a tight fist without pain. I have changed my diet and been taking the supplements, I know stress is a huge factor and its been a couple of years of very high stress levels !!
Work - again, nothing new. Still demanding and I know I need to find something else. But what is the problem, I have not heard anything back from any of my applications which is getting me a bit down, although I am very unsettled right now so perhaps changing jobs is not a good idea. My appraisal is coming up in the next couple of weeks, its what I have been hanging out for, to have something on permanent record ....as long as its good ha ha.
H - well, that's gone arctic cold. I have no idea whats going on. The mixed messages continue and I am over it to be honest. I have had the odd text and call, I keep it all about him and light chit chat, but I am running out of things to talk about, there is only so much kids, weather and his life (which he is sketchy about and I dont bother pushing for knowledge anymore) that I can chat about! I did do one thing though - in the "try something and see what the response is" category. We just had a long weekend here, so on the Friday I did my weekly text to h (thanks sotto and job) and he responded as usual. I then said I should have invited him up for the weekend as I had it off too - his answer was that s22 was going camping so he had no one to dog sit. I did not actually want him to come visit - like I say, I dont know what to talk about anymore - but I thought I would put it out there that I am still interested. He has never asked me how I feel after xmas or told me how he felt afterwards. He has not talked to me about anything and now I dont ask, nothing gets said. It turns out he had a whole weekend of going out with friends planned so he would not have come anyway.
I am bored of this, fed up of being treated like I dont matter. He make this huge declaration about it all now being about me and I am the one he wants to be with end of story - then does a 180 and its back to all being about him and what he wants; he told me a while ago that he wont be doing "whatever it takes" at the cost of him. Just so selfish and unappealing right now. Until I see some action then all I hear is blah blah blah, I can't be doing with it. He knows where I am, its his responsibility to make this happen, but the longer this goes on, the more he messes me about, the further away I go from him. His thoughts on all this seem to change constantly, he goes cold and withdrawn so I question it and he says "no? nothing has changed, my end goal is the same" but then completely ignores me - does he think I am going to just run into his arms when he is finally ready ??!!
Well that is this weeks take - I am sure he will reel me in again at some point lol.
I have my holiday to look forward to, I have no plans for it, I need to save the money - hence cancelling my girls trip - but it will be good to have some time away from work and give my joints a break. Good news is that I have been told I have accursed enough leave so I will get paid for it :o)
So that's all from me - like I said, nothing really happening. I need to try and kick start my GAL stuff, its all fallen behind and the lower I get the less I do things, I have found myself in a vicious circle that I need to break.
Lou, I am sorry to hear that your hands aren't any better. I do hope that they can discover what is causing them to flare up and can recommend a course of action to help alleviate some of the pain.
Your h reminds me of a toddler learning to walk. He stands on wobbly legs and holding on to something, but is also looking back to see if mom is there to catch him if he falls. When he sees that mom is still right where he left her, he continues to take those wobbly steps until he reaches the next object to grab.
Lou, what may have happened w/your h is he realized that you were moving on w/your life and he had a panic attack that you weren't going to remain where he left you pre-crisis. So, what did he do? He told you how he felt, but he's still not ready to recommit fully. This is where you need to start thinking of dropping the rope and moving forward for a while. You are getting disappointed and frustrated w/his behavior. Lou, he's still playing in the replay pool and it's going to be some time before his words match his actions. He's content and happy that you are right back where he left you a while ago. I know you would dearly love to reconcile, but you need to drop the rope of expectation for a bit. Consider him just a friend for now...nothing more. If you can do that, hopefully your expectations won't go up and you can accept him for who he is right now, i.e., someone who is still a bit in replay.
Your toddler needs to grow up and learn to walk on steady legs w/o mom being there to catch him.
I do hope you feel better soon.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Lou, when I read your post, I was reminded of something AJ posted a while ago. About how important it is to see not what the MLCer is 'doing to you' but what they are 'doing for themselves.' If you can take that perspective, it may help perhaps?
I've also read about MLCers having 'wake up calls' and then dipping back into crisis to carry on moving forward. I think Job is right and best to move forward with your own stuff. Like any of us, you may get to a point where you decide you don't want to stand any longer. We all get to choose that, but it doesn't sound as though you are there yet.
Keep taking care of yourself and I hope you plan something nice for your time off.
Xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Thank you job and Sotto, I try not to include h in my decisions, what I do, where I go etc. I haven't told him anything about my latest health issues, its none of his business right now.
So today's random h act - he sent me a link to a property with a text saying " was bored and found this"
The link took me to a property page, the house being pretty much exactly like the one we talked about moving into for our last home (pre bd); a wood house with a wrap around veranda so we can watch our g/kids play in the garden (this is a future dream lol).
To make things even more bizarre it is in the location he mentioned "us" moving to after all this, so that we can start over with no history there.
I text replied " um, ok!? The house looks lovely. You really do have some random thoughts !!"
H - " I am a puzzle wrapped up in an enigma"
Me - "indeed"
H - "Not sure how I got to looking at houses!"
At this point I knew we could well get into dodgy territory, so I changed the subject completely.
The random-nous of his thoughts really does intrigue me lol.
My foundations took a rocking when I read Cali's latest posts, it has taken me some time to stop the shaking I feel in my bones. When I (and probably most newbies) joined this board I read so many threads, searching for hope, wanting to know that reconciliation is possible and it does happen. I came across Cali, he was my Hope.
As time has gone on, it has become less about reconciling with my h and more about my own journey, my own growth, trials and tribulations, my successes.
I then got what I wanted to hear, those words from h that I never thought I would - "I want to be with you". But little did I know that it was not going to be that simple, that it was just the start of my next chapter .....or three ...or ten, and Cali's latest twist in his story has highlighted how uncertain and unpredictable my sitch will end for me.
It has taken me rolls of industrial duct tape, titanium handcuffs and every distraction I know to not contact h and bombard him with questions and demands of "knowing where I stand". I did really well .....until today. Well, this is me and I am not known for going by the book am I !!
h text me this morning about our car project, we had a short text convo about it and then I wrote the text - in my head I was not going to push send, but I did, it was gone and well what is done is done.
Thankfully it turned out ok -ish.
So I text " Its been a couple of months since xmas, u haven't talked about it, whether ur can stayed sealed or moe worms escaped - i'm thinking the latter as you have not wanted to spend anymore time with me. So if poss, sometime when you have had time to gather your thoughts, I'd like to know how things are with you - just keeping me in the loop."
h replied " Of course. Give me a day or 2 to get things into some kind of order that will make sense and I'll be in touch. Being with you is still very much my focus"
I replied. " thank you - and that's good to hear so thank you for saying that".
So I await to hear how he is doing.
Other news - I went back to the Dr for the second lot of blood results. He has put me on a 2 month trial of diclofenac to see if that helps with the pain in my joints. So far, its not a magic pill but does take the edge off.
My second set of bloods included thyroid as I have a history of a Mulitnodular Goitre which resulted in hyperthyroidism, I was treated with radioactive iodine (which my boys got excited about as they read I would have glow in the dark pee for a week, but it was not true - dont ask lol). That was in 2011 so after 2years monitoring I was discharged. My last scan was in 2014. So my bloods came back showing my TSH is 5, which is subclincal hypothyroid, the opposite direction ugh. As the count is high but not too high I have to have repeat blood test end of March. But the count is high enough to contribute to why I feel so tired and my mood is low, it can also give joint pain - sigh.
But good news is that the mole is fine ....age ....oh yes, he actually said its my age lol. I had photos taken with a special camera and it explained to me - just looked like lots of little circles, which is apparently a good thing.
Work wise - still plodding along. I am on holiday this week, I haven't planned much, maybe catch up with a couple of g/friends, maybe a visit to the beach. Just time away from work is nice.
So that's all from me. Nothing exciting I am afraid, but perhaps that's a good thing. No drama.
Thank you for updating, I think of you often. I agree, Cali's post has really shaken many of us here.
I can relate with you, I too came here in hope of saving my marriage and have accepted this is no longer what my journey is about nor possibly, for me, no longer possible. I am speaking on behalf of my own feelings, not H.
I still do continue to look for hope in posts, and yours is one of them. I can't imagine it is easy to be in your shoes with your H, but I think you handle it well. It all really does move at a snails pace. I hope he will fill you in on his world soon.
I hope your treatments help with your health and hope you have a good week.
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Hi Lou, Glad you posted an update. Nothing to add except to say that I am keeping you close in my thoughts and prayers. You are a strong person and a positive lady. I know this is such a tough journey and you have moved with grace and hope. You are a hero to me. Thanks for being you.
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
It's not"subclinical" hypothyroidism if you're fatigued and having aching joints. Most patients treated with radioactive iodine ablation will become hypothyroid eventually. I'd push for treatment, you'll likely feel much better once you get some thyroid hormone in you. Also, with your history, you have a 1 in 20 chance of having full blown celiac disease and a 65% chance of having some degree of gluten intolerance. Consider trying a gluten free diet, it may be the key to your joint pain.
Thank you mleigh, Gwen and kml for your kind words, thoughts and information.
Gwen - how are you ??
Originally Posted By: mleigh
I can relate with you, I too came here in hope of saving my marriage and have accepted this is no longer what my journey is about nor possibly, for me, no longer possible. I am speaking on behalf of my own feelings, not H.
mleigh - my view has certainly changed along the way. I no longer NEED my h, so the question is "do I WANT him". I never thought I would think this way, I imagined that I would wait until my last day on earth for him, that I forgive anything he has done and said, as that is what you do when you love someone ......yet somewhere along the way I found myself questioning my convictions, I wonder if there is more out there for me, I wonder if he really deserves me.
I was approached recently by a g/friend asking me if I would be a part of an exciting project she is exploring. She wants to create a retreat for women, its about healing the mind, body and soul from whatever reason has lead them there. She wants me to be a part of her Dream Team to run it. I am so flattered she asked me. It has sat with me for a while; what an exciting project, it offers me a home, friendship and a new way of life. BUT - its in the UK, the other side of the world to my children and yes, also h.
Once upon not a long time ago I would have discounted the notion of this idea, but now h and this project jossle for top spot -
So I do understand what you are saying - life moves on and the further away from h it gets then harder it is to imagine a life with him again.
Kml - thank you for the information. I was told that after 2yrs post a RI treatment its unlikely I would become hypothyroid, so to have differing information helps. One of my nodules has suspicious markers, but after 3 failed attempts to get a viable biopsy sample I was discharged and told to come back if I had any more trouble. My Dr wants a second blood test to confirm my levels which will be done end of march to give sufficient time between the tests. If this one comes back high then I will be referred back to the specialist. Hopefully I will then be put on meds and get another scan.
Your information on celiac disease and gluten intolerance is interesting, I have not heard of this before so will research it. I know there are allergy tests that can be done - is that something you recommend or just trying a gluten free diet?
Ideally you would have a celiac disease blood test done first before you start a gluten free diet ( because the gluten antibodies will go away over time if you stay gluten free.)
However even if the test is negative, you should try a gluten free diet. The test only picks up full fledged celiac disease and can miss people who have lesser degrees of gluten sensitivity.
Hi Lou - just caught up on all your journaling. Just want you to know that I am thinking of you.
The opportunity in the UK sounds amazing. And it is quite flattering that you were sought out for it. I wonder what you will do here? I can see the confliction given that your children and H are in NZ. Flights in and out of NZ are long and very costly so I understand it is not a decision to be taken lightly.
I too feel I had the rug pulled out from under me in regards to Cali's situation. It is a reminder that we must keep focusing on ourselves.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
^^^ yes to what K said about gf. sugar, dairy and eggs are all known allergens. don't tackle eliminating all at once as its hard!!! tests are fine but the gold standard is still elimination and re-introduction after 4-6 weeks off.
i can walk you thru it if u want to go that route.
that position sounds amazing, and also a decision to be made after much thought. sending you {{{{{hugs}}}} and prayers for clarity.
xoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Really, my mind was made up before the offer!! I cannot walk away from not knowing if h and I can make it through this and come out the other side back together. If there had been no glimmer of possibility then I would have really considered the offer, but reality is, it is possible so I am not done here by a long way.
If things don't work out and I decide its time to shut the door, then I can always go join in then, I am sure they will always welcome me, its kinda what the retreat is about -
I am still getting my head around this hypothyroid stuff but promise to look at what is involved in changing my diet - I am really not good at depriving myself of things I have come to love - I also know that is doesn't have to be restrictive, so I should not be closed to the idea of trying something that may help me feel better. So thank you kml and bttrfly for taking the time to give me information, I really do appreciate it.
Still waiting for my email from h, but in the meantime he has been texting with me most of the day, all light, just chit chat, I dont want to scare him off just as I am about to get an update from him !!
Thank you once again for your replies {{hugs}} to you all.
well, the whole depriving thing - that's about perspective, imo ... i used to think of it as being deprivation. it got a whole lot easier to stick to a diet when i changed my viewpoint from deprivation to looking at it as what do I want more ex. what do I want more today: to fit into my jeans more comfortably or to eat a bag of chips. behave accordingly. some days it is the bag of chips! some days it's the jeans. get where I'm going with this? it works for me, may help you. just passing it along ... with love xoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Thanks bttrfly - I do understand what your saying. My head has been in a bad space so forgive me being so bluh about the suggestions to help me out - I honestly really do appreciate them all.
So here it is, the h update. It was a phone call, I instigated it ....i know, I know, but read on and you will find out that it was not such a bad thing to do.
We spoke for nearly 2hrs, h was open and honest about what is going on with him, he answered everything ...if fact he spoke more than me and asked me things which is new. I can't write it all, 1) a 2hr post would take a week to read lol and 2) I feel I am being disloyal to h repeating some of things he said.
Xmas went well for him, he enjoyed being with the family and in particular me, he said he felt comfortable and no pressure to be someone else. He saw me as being relaxed and happy which made him feel at ease with the new me being here to stay. The sex, well we both agreed it was not planned but did not create an issue for either of us, he said it felt right. He was sorry that he has not talked to me about it since, he is struggling to change that about himself - to be open and talk about things has never been something that comes naturally to him.
Interestingly he did say he can't believe its been 2 months since we last saw each other, to him its only been a couple of weeks. He apologized for it being so long and said he did not mean to give me the impression he has lost interest in "us".
This lead to a conversation about him being more active in letting me know I am still his end goal - he explained that his texts, the chit chat, means "I am thinking about you", he said he is not naturally a Casanova, he does not do mush or suggestive, he finds it hard to start conversations, always has, so this starting chit chat is a big deal for him, if he wasn't thinking of me then he wouldn't contact me. I told him I understand and thanked him for explaining, I mentioned that I am different, I can do mush etc and he said he would work on that.
He also expalined what the house link was about - he was thinking about me,us, and found himself looking at future possibilities, he had a whole conversation lined up, but got scared and went with the "don't know why I sent it" line. Funny guy.
He spoke a lot about fears, fear that he will cause me to return to the person I was, fear I will not be able to get past what he has done in the past 2 yrs, fear that he wont be able to get past what he has done, fear that I will leave him, fear that we wont work , fear fear fear It holds him tight, but he said the more we talk the better he feels and easier it becomes .....yet he has a fear of starting a conversation with me .....so this is where my nudge comes in to it - he said that it is good that I do it, he wants me to do it, it makes him talk, it makes it flow more naturally when I start it. He asked that I continue to instigate these talks as and when I want them, he will tell me if I am pushing too much or if he needs time to get things straight in his head, or if at that time life/work is busy and he cant give it full attention.
So the negative stuff - he does not feel he can have me move to where he lives. The history he has created there is too much for him to move past and have me going to the same places and doing the same things as he has done since he left. He is concerned that just moving to a new place and starting again is a big thing to do without first living together and seeing how that works first. He does not yet know the answer, its not him saying he is giving up with the possibility of an us, he is saying that he doesn't know the answer to that yet.
He talked about me, asked me about the changes I feel in myself, he asked if I would email him at some point about what I felt he did in the past that affected me; I queried him on this request, explaining that what I felt then, the person I was then, is not how it is now, so what would it achieve? He replied that if he does not want history to repeat and if it is something he agrees with then he would make a conscious effort not to do it. So i questioned " and what if it is something you dont feel you want to change about yourself, is that it, game over?" He replied "no, its something we need to discuss, to see if the is a middle ground".
His visit home - he said he needed to do it, was glad he did it. He wanted his family to know he cares and loves them. This is a big change in him; he said that I always did the contact, he never needed to, he was not interested before, but since his friend died last year he understands the importance of family, especially one that cares about him and feels bad that he has shown no thought back to them. He apologized for not communicating at all with me while he was away, said he went into a zoned out place for 2 weeks, needed to. He said its done now, its not something he intends to repeat and if he does go again then he hopes I will be a part of it.
So on to seeing each other again. Its difficult now both of us has a s living with us, we also have the added complication of me not being able to visit him at his location. He has a wedding to attend in March and s19 is visiting him for Easter so to give me full attention he suggests a weekend meetup early April.
He has said I am still where his focus is and he knows that all fears and doubts cannot be alleviated so at some point he will have to just jump in. The more we talk, the more we spend time together the more comfortable he feels that it will be ok, we will be ok.
So more time and then some more, more patience, duct tape, not too much pushing but the occasional nudge along from me. Things are moving in the right direction, just trying so hard not to get wrapped up in it but it is extremely hard not to have a little more hope that we will make it through this together, stronger and wiser. But I do know I need to come of the high and back to zero expectations .......did I really ever achieve that in the first place hmmmmm lol.
H said he needed to go and have a few beers now as the butterflies in his stomach were giving him an adrenaline rush, the nerves of talking to me, opening up to me, the fear of what I might do or say, the outcome of the conversation, had him a bag of nerves lol. Oh how priceless. Think I will leave him for a couple of weeks to recover from his ordeal !!
Lou, Yes, leave him to his butterflies for now. He's got a lot to think about and so do you. As we say here, talk is cheap, but actions speak louder than words. Continue to show him that you are a good listener and friend. BTW, the mlc was talking quite clearly when he stated that he has fears. Each and every fear that he mentioned has been raised by the mlcer time and again because they truly are afraid that we will revert back to our old selves, old marriage, etc. The only way that this can be overcome is to continue being your new and improved self. Unfortunately he can't always see that your changes are permanent because the both of you live far from each other. But, I would continue to drop those cookie crumbs and allow him to gobble them up.
For now, leave him alone for just a wee bit to think about things and try to take care of yourself. Your body has told you it needs rest and so does your mind for a bit. You have a possible time to meet up w/him in April, try to get your health up to speed for that meet up.
Hang in there, dig deeper for patience and have faith...you've got some positives from this latest conversation.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Nothing much to add, it was a conversation that achieved little for me, I am no further forward. Hopefully its not the same for him.
Thinking about it overnight, I see that the fears he has may hold him from ever moving forward with us, I am not sure how long he needs to see that this is me and I am here to stay to be comfortable, he may never be convinced. I can see why many give up at this point, its painstakingly frustrating and very tiring on the emotions because no matter how detached you think you are, your not detached enough !!
job, you say this is common, that its something a mlcer goes through, the doubts and fears; do they generally get past them to acceptance, or once the fears are there do they get stuck in a loop ? I know I can only do what I am doing, but I do feel sometimes I am having to sell myself and honestly, if he wants a guarantee he should go buy something from a store - I don't come with a refund policy or a lifetime warranty and I wonder if this is an area he will remain unconvinced in.
I realise that I am still free to do as I please. My holiday has allowed me well needed down time from work to reassess and reflect on what I want to do for the immediate future as its obvious that any thoughts of me and h is off the table, so I am thinking of something to change things up, get me out of this funk - I am lucky, I have no commitments, no little ones, no home to keep me in one place, so why not think of doing something else, getting me out of I job I dont like and is affecting my health, moving me along in my own growth, doing something for me. Don't know what it is yet - June is still my goal time, I have made a chart and stuck it on my fridge - its 13 weeks to June, 13 weeks to save, decide, make something happen .......???? slight hitch is that I don't know what yet, but I figure it can''t be worse than my current sitch !!
Thanks for reading and supporting, you are all my rocks, my safe place and I am grateful to you all.
Some MLCers will get over their butterflies, but it takes them a long time to feel comfortable in their own skin once they wake up from their deep MLC sleep. They will test you to see if you revert back to your old self. They will ask if you want them to go away and leave you alone. For those who come home, they will ask every time something doesn't set right if you want them to leave. Once they wake up it takes a good 18-24 months for them to actually feel comfortable in their own skin again, give or take a few months. This is the time whereby the LBS gets very impatient and frustrated and wants everything back to normal. The relationship can't go back to the way it was...it has to be a new marriage and whatever changes you've made have to be permanent or it won't work.
They fear going back to the way things were. That is why is it very important to take things very slowly, allow them to see that your changes are permanent and that you accept them for who they are. You have to start at ground zero, which is friends and allow that to simmer for a while before going to the next step. In other words, no expectations of what he use to be or what he can do right now. You have to continue allowing them to bake and come to you.
I would suggest that you just be your new and improved self. Jumping through hopes or selling yourself shows that you are trying too hard. The more you are yourself, the more he'll come to you. I know that you are frustrated and want to know where his mind is at...but he's still baking up and he is moving at his own speed...SLOW.
Lou, this is the hardest part of the journey for the LBS because we see some improvement and want to rush the process. You can't. You have to have faith that he'll make the right decisions and will return to you. While he's baking, continue to live your life, do the things that you want to do and if he wants to join you in some of those things, by all means allow him to do so, if you feel comfortable w/that. But, for now, he's still not ready to recommit and he's still got some baking up to do before he finally is free of his fears.
I know I say this quite often...but you've got to keep the focus on you and your health. God will take care of your h.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Lou, Just catching up ... sending you {{{hugs}}} and a new frock from the Spring Patience is a Virtue line, lol
Hang in there baby. You have plenty to occupy you. Your health is of paramount importance.
You scared the crap out of me: 13 weeks till June? Man I gotta get movin' on some exercise or I will be harpooned in a bathing suit this summer! xoxoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Thank you so much job, reading your post was just what I needed to read today. I had a really unsettled night, weird dreams and woke feeling like I need to end this before he does - I haven't woken with mass feelings/emotions like that for quite a while, so to read your post put some calm back into me.
Everything you wrote is so accurate, I see it, so thank you for taking the time to help me understand this part of the process. He mentioned again at the weekend that since his friend died (coming up a yr in March) he has felt different, he looked at himself and hated what he saw, its around that time his feelings and thoughts of me started to return and he began to see what he had created around him and the very slow process of changing it started.
I know what i have to do, I feel I am doing it as best I can; being a friend and allowing him into my life in any capacity is hard going for me as my feelings for him are still very much there (realised this at xmas) and being in his life but not in his life is like picking a scab -
Its my nature to put everyone else first, I always have done and probably always will do, so me and my health tend to get pushed to the bottom of the pile - hence me taking over a year to go to the dr about the mole! I dont prioritize myself as being high on the list, its something I struggle with, I feel selfish. So when I do do something for me, then its a big deal and takes me a lot of pushing myself - which is why I struggle to make decisions based purely around me, what is best for me, what do I want ...I tend to take everything else/one into account first.
I want to get this next blood test out the way, 2 weeks time. That will give me a clearer picture of what is going on with my thyroid - looking at it I have got symptoms but I dont want to blame them on anything until I have proof. The low I am feeling, the utter tiredness and aches and pains could all be down to this, or they could be genuine depression setting in, so I know this part of my health needs to be taken seriously and I am taking steps to sort it out. As for me in general, I know that I have have to change my job, its not helping my mood or body, but my questioning thoughts are : I feel so unsettled right now, my job, my location, h , health, life - so what will cause me the least stress to deal with ..... the whats best for ME wrangle continues lol.
Bttrfly, Thank you for the frock - I still have not managed to wear my Happy Day Dress that I bought after h left, wow, that took me weeks to summon up the courage to buy - its still in the bag, wrapped so neatly. Sorry to scare you, sometimes I think , only 13 weeks, I can make it. And some days I think omg, still 13 weeks to go ....not that I have a clue of what I am changing up in 13 weeks, but I tend to make the most random decisions so who knows!! I am sure you will look absolutley delightful in a itsy bitsy, teeny weeny, yellow poker dot bikini ....be daring bttrfly, spread those wings and be proud of who you are :o)
Lou, Please, please make yourself a priority. If you don't take care of your health, you won't be able to enjoy life the way you should.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
honey if you have hypothyroid ... that could be contributing massively to how you are feeling. I went on a tear learning all I could about it as H has it and his numbers were sky-high just prior to BD and climbed even higher just prior to mediation.
Thyroid is interesting energetically, as it is a butterfly shaped gland located at the base of the throat... so ... if one tends to keep things inside and not say what one needs to say, there is a school of thought that one might be dealing with thyroid stuff sooner or later. that is just a school of thought ... it's function is basically to control the metabolism. Every cell in one's body is affected by the thyroid. I'm not trying to scare you Lou, but I do want to impress upon you that it is imperative that you take this seriously and put yourself at the top of your list asap. Sweetie, no one else will put you there if you don't put yourself there first. I'm trying to be as gentle as I can be here, because I love you and want you to be healthy and happy. xoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Thank you job - you dont fancy moving to NZ do you ?? lol
bttrfly - thanks for the information. I was originally hyperthyroid so know the score, wow that was not a blast for sure. I felt like I was going crazy, my mind never shut off. I got down to 0.01 before it was taken seriously. I have had scans, ultrasounds, radioactive iodine, biopsies soooo many blood tests, agh. But have been all good for a few years, sitting around 2 which is ideal. My number has only gone up to 5 but its enough to be symptomatic, I know that anything over 10 is not good, I have heard of some ridiculously high numbers, I dont know how people function with them that high, its no wonder your h is all over the place, I really feel for you. I know that its important I get this sorted now, hence the testing, my tests needs to be done 6-8 weeks apart to confirm so I have 2 weeks to go before I can do the second one. My endocrine specialist was set up when I last lived here so I can be referred back to him if my level comes back the same or higher. In this instance I am being pro active for me. The thyroid controls a lot of different hormones, hence when its out of whack it really does affect the body in many ways. Metabolism, mood, skin/nails/hair, joints, sleep, sexual health, brain function the list goes on.
Do you know if your h got help to lower his levels?
Bttrfly and job, thank you so much for caring, this has honestly been the most challenging couple of years and without the wonderful support from such amazing people who have entered my life I would be still be hunched in a corner in a blob of pity and doom, I am humbled, so very very humbled by you all. Thank you.
you're on it. good ... that is all i ask ... and want for you: good health and much happiness.
h tested at 16.9 one month prior to bd. his dr never thought it would be a good idea to adjust his meds and re-test. after much research and nagging on my part, he agreed to see my doc, who is an integrative guy. alas, they were not able to schedule something until late august. so between early march and late august, h went from 16.9 to 28.
yup.
28.
dr. gave h armour... in addition to other stuff, I guess. I was cut out of the loop at that point, but h did start to feel better immediately and was complaining about jet lag in early october, which i took as a sign that things were getting better.
my doc says anything over 4 is cause for concern. labs will tell you something else. you are right to be on it at 5 ... what dr said to me was that he advises no major life changing decisions over 4 ... so there you have it. take your time, focus on your health. once that is under control everything else will fall into place. {{{hugs}}}
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
28 !! Oh My, I think I would also be in a fog at 28. I do hope that your h manages to get on top of it, it certainly wont be helping him being that high.
Until I know for sure I will not be making any big decisions I promise, I really need to try and focus myself on not doing anything daft while I feel this way - agh.
Hi everyone, I stepped away from the board for a while, I felt that I was living and breathing MLC and being here everyday was in affect picking at the scab daily.
Not much of interest has happened since I last posted.
I got a promotion - well more like a title as recognition for the job I am already doing. So I am now Team Leader of my department which comes with a small pay rise. I still dont intend staying in the job, but the new title looks good on my cv - especially as I have gone from being the cleaner to running a department in under a year !!The extra money I am putting straight into a savings account so I dont get used to it.
I have started IC, I got 6 subsidized sessions through the local Women's Centre with another 6 offered after that if needed. I am on week 4. I cant say I have got much out of it, but it is good to be able to ramble on to someone that is removed from my world and tell me if I my thinking is completely nutso.
What has come out of it is that I feel that I want to be more, I feel I am more and deserve it. Through choices, some my own, some h, I have ended up in this situation and only I can change it. So I have enrolled at an Open Polytechnic, I start a tertiary study skills course in July which will give me the necessary qualification to take on a diploma/degree as I have been out of education for 30yrs !! ouch saying that !! It is a fee free course so I have no excuse not to try and hopefully by the end of it (Jan 2017) I will know what course I want to go on to study - its part time learning as I need to continue working full time.
Socially I try to do something most weekends, even if its just a quick coffee with a g/friend. I have had a couple of situations with unsavory men that I managed to retreat from, why is that guys see a middle aged single women and think you must be desperate - seriously!Life experiences ha ha.
S19 moved to his dads, back to me, back to dads and now is back with me again - wears me out just writing it! He has an appointment with college mid May so fingers crossed he gets back in and can carry on with his course. S22 is moving out of his dads in June to be with his g/friend who has a new job. He is happy and looking forward to new adventures.
Healthwise - nothing changed, I have been confirmed as Hypothyroid, not on meds (my choice) but will go on them if my blood count goes up or my symptoms get worse. The arthritis is steady, I only need the painkiller after a couple of shifts each week - another reason to find another job.
As for H - well long story. He backed out of meeting me in April, said he wasn't ready, he knows that spending time with each other draws us closer so wants to make sure that he has dealt with everything in his head. I just said OK, I understand. I don't but hey, right now this is his party and I have to wait for the invite.
ex ow made a brief (although not in a romantic or sexual way) appearance, she did her crazy thing and me another favour, making me look more sane and normal in h's eyes. One of her antics was to create a fantasy f/book relationship for them, photos and all (he left her 7 months ago!), h was upset and I think a bit shocked, he stopped being blind and has finally shut the door on that chapter of his life, not forgotten and nor should it be, it happened, it changed him and he learnt from it. I behaved myself all the way through, allowed him to deal with it and removed myself as he had her in his life; he crossed the boundary - he sorted it out quickly and kept me informed throughout the whole situation.
Contact after that became a bit more regular, he started finding excuses to say hi and then this weekend he text me asking me out for a weekend date Flights are booked and he is booking a hotel this week. We are meeting on weekend 14th/15th May. Its the first time since he wanted "us" that he has suggested us meeting so in a way its a big deal as I have initiated the other occasions.
So we shall see where this meeting leads me. I know either way I will be ok, I now have dreams and goals of my own to focus on - getting through this course is the first !
So that's all from me. I have a lot of sitches to catch up on, been out of the loop a bit too long.
Lou, Sometimes we have to step away from the forum in order to help us clear our minds of the mlc drama and figure out how to move forward.
Congratulations on the promotion, even if it is a job title change and a small increase in your pay...it's still a promotion that you busted your behind for. Yes, it will look good or any resume that you send off for jobs.
I'm glad you started IC and I'm sorry you've not gotten much out of it, but at least you have a safe place to talk in the real world and not in cyberworld.
You've been a busy lady...taking up studying this summer is a very good way to take your mind off your h, as well as improve your skills and who knows...you just might become a professor down the road, if this the path that you wish to take.
I'm glad you have come to realize that you are the prize and yes, darn it, you do deserve more in life and yes, you are the only one that can change your current situation. You have the control over what you do in life, we have choices and it appears that you are making some good choices and I hope that you will not allow your h to change your course direction when it comes to education and future positions.
I wasn't surprised to read that he didn't follow thru on the April visit. We'll see how he does in two weeks time. He's quite sane enough to make choices and whether or not he comes, that is a choice that he's made. I do hope that he does come and you can have a nice time visiting w/him. As for sons...wow! they sure to bounce around from one parent to the other. I hope they finally settle down in one place for a bit. LOL!
I'm sorry that your health hasn't improved a lot. I had hoped there would have been some improvements. I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers and hopefully you'll locate a position that will help take some of the stress off of your mind, soul and body to allow your body to heal.
Lou, you've been missed. Please don't be a stranger and come back to post an update when you have the time and feel like it. We are always here for you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Lou! You have been missed. It's so good to hear from you.
My goodness, you sure do have tremendous patience. It's quite astounding the amount of time MLC takes but as Job says, at the stage you are at now, the slower the better. It takes the MLCer so very long to put himself back together.
Kudos to you for all that you are accomplishing!
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Hi Lou, good to hear from you. I was just thinking of you the other day and here you are posting! You sound good and I'm pleased to read that - very much moving forward in terms of your job and studies....excited for you on that front!
Wow - OW sounds like a piece of work. Good for you being the sane one in all of that - and fair enough on your H's part, sorting things out and keeping you updated.
It sounds like you guys continue to make slow progress. And I always think slow is best with MLC. From what I read, if people try to romp through it, it always comes back and bites you on the bum!
Keep being awesome anyway - and it's great that you keep in touch with the forum - even if you just drop in from time to time xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
They're not a drug, they're the same as the hormones your body makes. And starting them doesn't necessarily mean you have to take them forever; if your thyroid improves you can always go off of them. But you'll have no idea how great you could feel until you try them.
Your arthritis could be caused by low thyroid. Low thyroid also increases your risk of heart disease and osteoporosis, as well as causes fatigue, depression, low energy, weight gain ..... Lots of things you don't want.
Try taking the thyroid hormone, it can be seriously life altering.
Good to hear from you Lou! I've missed you and wondered how you are. Congratulations on the promotion - the acknowledgement of your efforts must feel pretty good! I'm proud of you for signing up for school.
I continue to be in awe of your level of detachment and patience. Not sure I could or can do the same. You are a real power of example to me.
Now, what KML said about hypothyroid is absolutely correct. Please consider her words. I would like for you to feel amazing physically as well as emotionally and spiritually. Much love to you! xo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Lou, great to hear from you! Congratulations on your promotion! You are moving towards your future and what deserve in life by leaps and bounds. I’m cheering for you! I love your plan regarding a free course and then some study. I am also happy that you are in place when you feel comfortable enough to take the things slow with your H, but at the same time keep moving along with what you want in life.
I hope your weekend with H will be great. Like we all say here, no expectations, LOL. I just hope you enjoy yourself.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Thanks everyone for the Congratulations, feedback and support.
Kml & bttrfly - I have made an appointment to see my Dr on Monday.
h text to let me know he has booked a room and which hotel it is - looks nice, in the centre of the city, close to everything. So our flights and accommodation are booked; feeling a bit nervous actually, like first date nerves lol.
I have a girlfriend visiting this weekend, I have not seen her since last year so I am looking forward to catching up with her. On Sunday evening I am having some girls around for a dinner party, I am quite excited about it, its fun to think about menus and things to make the evening special.
Thanks again for walking by my side, I am so lucky to have you all in my life :o)
Lou - Such lovely news from your corner of the world! Sending you good wishes and much respect as you have navigated the last year with grace and optimism. Hoping your visit goes well and you both continue communicating because that in itself is a blessing. No matter what the future holds I sense you are living well in the moment and you have much to celebrate. Your independence from living in a state of "what if" to a state of "it is" and your uncanny ability to find that silver lining. Keep being you and know that you have many fans (Most definitely me) praying for you. You are my hero!
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
GREAT! I'm so happy you are going to the Dr tomorrow. GAL activities sound like much fun. Wishing you lots of love and luck and all good things for next weekend.
xoxoxoxoxoxo as always my friend. It's a privilege to walk beside you!
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Hi all, just a quick update on how my weekend with h went and the days following it.
We both flew to a neutral meeting place Saturday morning, met in the airport and then spent the weekend in the city. We did a few touristy things; went on a ferry to an island and had a history tour, went to a casino and played the 2c slots in the evening and went to a transport museum (thinking of h with this choice) on the Sunday. We walked, we talked about lots of different things (no r talk), we ate, drank and generally had a very lovely weekend together. We held hands when walking and yes there was more intimate contact but more on that later. We made our way back to the airport late Sunday afternoon and both flew to our different locations within minutes of each other.
H was really difficult to read, I was not sure what he was thinking throughout the weekend, just that he was easy to be around, I had a couple of uncomfortable moments but on the whole he was very attentive and thoughtful.
We spoke briefly in the airport about how it went (prob not the most appropriate place lol), he said he had a really nice time, loved spending time with me, but the issues surrounding his feeling of guilt and shame as to what he has done to me still overshadow the desire to be physical, he tried to push through it when we were intimate but it did not fade. He added that his therapist has moved and he has a new one, a lady this time, he has only seen her once so far but she has already taken him back to when this started for him, starting to create a time line. It appears that job was correct in saying that this is possibly round 2 for h, that this started about 5 years ago but he came out and simmered in the middle before hitting it worse the 2nd time. He also said he realizes that his leaving me was a needless act, that I did nothing to deserve what he decided he needed to do, leaving has solved nothing and just ended up with him living with the guilt and shame of it all.
I text him in the week asking if we could talk/text over the weekend if he was free and he said "of course". True to his word he contacted me this morning. My first sentence was:
Me -"before we have a needless conversation, does you heart still lie with me" h - "Yes. I want to be with you"
I asked about the issue he is having surrounding me. He said "last weekend confirmed that we can get along fine, the physical desire is there, just smothered by other feelings, I will be working to remove them"
Fairytale or tragic movie plot ....watch this space !!
Time, time and more time, patience, understanding and hope. If any newbies are reading this - make this your mantra !!
On my side of things: I felt mass rejection and deflation the day after the weekend (even though technically I was not rejected), I had a meltdown in my IC office (savvy thinking on my part to make an appointment for the day after), she wanted to sign me off work, but I said I know I will get through this, the feelings will pass, this happens every time I see him. And true to that I feel calmer and more centered again today.
Other news - my enrollment application for the Polytechnic course was rejected because I dont meet the entrance criteria - I cant prove I finished High school 30yrs ago ! But I was not going to give in that easily and so I have enrolled on a lower level bridging course instead. It just means a longer route to get to my goal, but this hurdle is a drop in the ocean compared to everything I have faced over the past 2 years, so it really does not feel like a hurdle at all ....a minor speed bump.
Had a quiet day today, just processing the conversation with h, know that I have to keep moving forward with my own life and let him do his thing, remain hopeful that he can see his way past the block he has created. I am going to a Sunday Market with a g/friend tomorrow and have counseling on Monday.
Lour, You sound like it was a nice time. I'm sorry about the bumb in the road on the education path. You can do this.
I like you mantra time, time,and more time , patience and understanding. It us hard to remember that time is our friend. This is a marathon not a sprint. The reminder was helpful. When you are talking with friends and they just don't get. They want you "happy" now and don't get everything you go thru or have to go thru in this process is so hurtful.
I appreciate seeing more success on her as it gives me renewed hope my H will find sobriety and his was back to his family!
wife of an addict M 39 H 39 D18 D 16 Together 19 M17
Lou, I'm very glad things went well and he is still open to express his feeling/thoughts to you. I'm glad to read that he is still going to therapy and it will help him as he travels his life's path. He needs to dig deeper within himself in order to better understand the "whys" of what made him go off the rails. It will take a lot of time and patience...but he does sound determined to figure things out.
I'm sorry about the class you wanted to take...but you've got this situation in hand and are taking a different one. Lou, you've come too far and climbed many mountains in the last couple of years to let anything stand in your way. You've got this!
Enjoy your Sunday outing. Sending positive thoughts your way!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Lou - Love to read your posts. You are my inspiration for living your life as authentically as possible. Sending you hugs and positive vibes. Everything sounds promising but Job was correct in stating that the time needed and patience required in these situations is arduous.
I think you have the right attitude and are very strong. Just focus on self care so whatever the future brings you will be in a position to make good decisions. You deserve the best in life Lou. H has shown great courage thus far and I admire that he is definitely trying to figure things out. I am hoping he will continue to be brave with his words and his actions.
In the end love and redemption come in many forms. You don't have to decide or determine the future. Just be you and be present to experience things today. Listen to your inner voice and trust yourself.
Hope your outing was fun and you have a good week.
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
so we will be spending Christmas together. He will drive up and bring the dogs, s18 will be here with his g/friend, so I will ask s21 if he wants to come up to.I had to mention its the sofa or my bedroom and he said my bedroom if that's ok, but how were we going to explain to s18 (our boys don't know about me and h being anymore than separated parents that weirdly talk alot!!) I said s18 wont think anything of it, in fact it prob would not surprise him at all, he thinks our relationship is "the most bizarre split on the planet" 
