Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi everyone,
here's my last post http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2603329#Post2603329

to give a little info on where i am

first BD1 MAY 30 2015 , Left 1 day came back and was good for 3 weeks but neglected the D's 12-14 at the time.
I hired a therapist to work with W and the D's to get closer. Did not work
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 via text , moved out Aug 2 2015
got an apartment but lost it due to no payment and also stopped paying for her credit card, car payments, insurance/.
went on a spending spree... changed hair and clothes style 3 times.
Started drinking, smoking , smoking pot and other drugs.

left both Daughters with me.
she had a sex life on a second face book page.
Met the first guy that contacted her and she is now living with him He is her soul mate.


She gave me full custody , I have the home, divorce is in progress.

she abandoned the girls. verbally abused them and lost her temper multiple times.Told them that she wanted lipo suction to erase what they did to her body. Doesn't want to be a mom.

she has told me that she is lost, confused, needs to find herself, cant love anyone if she cant love herself. ILYBNILWY. Hates me with a passion. Cant look at me. has shark eyes. Has gone from amazing looking with a power trip to junkie and lost.

Her mom had the same breakdown when she was young. Has a Bi polar cousin and aunt. Has abused her parents by asking for money. FIL realized she is ill and cut her off. MIL supports her because and i qshe haa


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
CONTINUED ---


Her mom had the same breakdown when she was young. Has a Bi polar cousin and aunt. Has abused her parents by asking for money. FIL realized she is ill and cut her off. MIL supports her because and i quote " i have my daughter back" . They were not close over the last few years. SIL says shes glad the girls are safe with me.

D'S want nothing to do with their Mom. Understands she is not well and she needs to do this journey alone.

i am complete NC.

OM is a MLC himself. Narcissistic dope head and is very controlling with my W.He has rotten teeth and has no respect for FIL. W cant even go to the bathroom without him standing outside the door. Controls her money as he has none.

all this in 3 months .lol

I have GAL
camping, movies, new puppy, outings with D's. trips to zoo, amusement parks. New friends etc etc etc.

I am doing well. i understand what wife is going through. I have read more than i have read in my entire life. also the support i get here is life saving. I appreciate and respect all of you that is going through this. I wish we all met under different circumstances.

brings me to today....

I miss her. I am standing.
had a flash again that she was pregnant. This is what would make me not stand anymore. I have gut feeling all my life. I fear this one with a passion. I had a gut feeling about W. That's why she is out as fast as she was. She knew I felt more about her actions . she couldn't hide them I was always a step ahead of her.

the day she left and we agreed joint custody. I told her my predictions. She would fall fast, lose everything. The girls will not respect her at all. Wife sis raise them right. Values and more present in my girls and being Irish... you break that trust and respect.. you will need to move mountains to gain it back. I wouldn't want to be in W shoes when she wakes up.

W has lost all her friends and is making new ones. Ones that dont know her or me. She moved to a town 40 minutes away. Makes NC even easier.

I do predict she will be back. When .. no clue.. with a baby... not happening. I will always leave the door open for her and the D's to fix their relationship through. It will be up to the D's.

Also... i wont let her back until i feel she is back. The oven has to ring DONE before that happens.

MLEIGH4 - yes i hope our S do come home. just I hope they don't do too much damage to themselves and to us and our kids. I will be reading your story tonight :-)


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,523
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,523
Irish

It's a tough road to travel on. Like your sitch , my Ws OM was a narcissist d-bag , seems that the OP has traits of that from my readings , possibly going through a MLC of their very own. After the A was done and W and I began putting some pieces together I came across a notebook of hers and her MLC thoughts ... My goodness the things in there and how very lost she was. Your post made me think about it as my W was trying to figure out how to create a family with OM in order to get him to commit to her .... Seems he was still tied to his W in some respect , along with another OW besides my W

Truth is they are oh so very lost and hurt ... The damage caused is excessive , not much we can do but board up our house and protect ourselves as you've done .... And you are wise to understand the R between her and her Ds is not your issue. My fear then ... And even now is this repeating of history, MIL too seems to have been through MLC along with SIL and 1/3 of BILs (so far) .... I pray that my actions and the way I handled things shield S from such a painful experience 35-40 years from now

You're handling it all so very well ... Hang in there


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Thanks Cali
I've read your posts and even reread certain ones twice.

I do think we should be proud that we holding down the fort.
I know you are well ahead of me and your situation is closer to the end.

I really hope all LBS will have either a story of their MLC coming home or the LBS grows so strong through all this that their next relationship will be one that will be healthier for them .

Cheers

Nothing to report on my end
W is a vanisher. No news to me or the D's.

D's are amazing . Brought them to the hair salon today then
to the store to buy them some female hygiene products.. All set.

A dads job doesn't stop at keeping the boys away lol


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
You sound like such a good and thoughtful dad, you're girls are so lucky to have you. You sound so strong too, stay the rock for your girls smile


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hey mleigh4,

Thanks, being strong is about my Girls.
They feel it and helps them stay strong.

This forum helps a lot too. So many here are amazing, you included.

I wonder if there is a forum for the MLCr
Talking about how we ruined their lives, prevented them from true happiness.
Saying things like " I can't believe he/she won't let me have an affair, and it's not an affair I cut off my relationship with them. Ok I'm still married but not in love..."

In my entourage, there are so many people that this happened to.
Some were not even aware that it happened. I'd say 9 out of 10 the spouse at some point regretted what they did . 6 out of 10 tried to get back together
Sadly only 2 did. But the other 4 LBS had moved on.

I was looking through my last texts to W before BD.
Crazy how I was blind to her plans. If you read them you'd say this is impossible that I am here today. The love and planning for the summer .... All so real and like it always was.


You sound like a great Mom and I read your story , you are so strong to deal with your H. Your S is the one who will remember all this. He'll be proud of you I'm sure:-)

Halloween around the corner... I'm thinking of making a mask of W. And go to the OM and punch him in the face lol, tell him it's over .

If our MLC can wear masks ... So should we


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
Quote:

If our MLC can wear masks ... So should we
If it's one thing you learn from all of this... (and I know you're being clever with that)it's that you need to get off the train of thinking what others do is also ok for you to do. In other words, live YOUR life and be the one others want to emulate. Be that person that YOU look in the mirror, and are at peace. Not the other way around, amigo.

Masks are never a good idea outside of Halloween. smile

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,227
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,227
Just to echo AJ. live your life as best as you can. We can't control others and nor should we want to. Your doing an amazing job and your Ds are very fortunate girls to have you as a Dad. Continue to be their guiding light and show them how to live by example.

Take care. Rd

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hey AJ , glad you detected me trying to be clever :-)

RD.. Read your sitch. Amazing dad as well. Kids first.
This is going to impact them for ever.

I'm educating mine to be more commutative about feelings, also to look out for each other. Wouldn't want this to increase the chance of them following W path.


I had a great weekend .. But .. Always a but when you see old friends that ask questions about W.

My D's were there as well and everyone was amazed how strong and understanding they were. They looked at my D's and said thinks like:
Poor you
It's tough girls I know
Mommy still loves you
Etc etc

They looked at me and said were good.
My oldest spoke up the most saying she's glad W is not present. She doesn't want that drama and nothing to be part of it.

On the drive home I felt the D's were tense. They were even mad.
Brought up all the things W did to them. It was good to get out but at the same time it stirred up a sensitive issue that the D's are trying to put on a shelf.

They did finish again by saying" I know she'll crash and will be back"

I let them vent and then put on some Elvis which my girls love.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
Right. Better out than in. But it will happen in their time, so be mindful of the conversations. It's hard as a child to process what's going on. Heck, it's hard as an adult for that matter.

Takes time. And sensitivity. You won't want to make a habit of that too frequently. But be careful to listen to your D's.

I know you know. Just reiterating for effect smile

I know for me, when I run into past friends it can be...awkward now. It used to stir up emotions. Now it's awkward that they go back to that time. Makes it weird to have the conversation in some ways. I guess for them, it's their way of processing. Her family members are also that way. Could also be that's what we had in common at that point in time.

In the end, that's for them to work out. Just like you and your D's will have to first cope and then work out.

Takes time and effort. Putting it on the shelf just means you'll have to deal with it later. Hopefully your D's give you the chance to help them create the tools to deal. Sounds like it.

Elvis? How'd that happen? smile

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Elvis

My mom brainwashed me while I was young and I did the same with my girls.

They know every word to his songs .

We are going to Memphis next year. So looking forward to it.

I'm out of town for 3 nights. My D's are at my parents house. Getting spoiled I'm sure.

Feels weird since it's the first time away from them since W left us.
I call them after supper to check up and they sound great.

My team from across the country are all here and we are planning for 2016.
A few of them said I looked great . Asked me my trick for losing weight.
Now I was a fit guy before all this , probably had about 10lbs to lose before BD.

Since BD I lost 24 lbs.
Not a diet of choice lol but it did it's job.

I have since gained back 10. I think I am comfortable at this weight.

I tried not to bring up W during the discussions . Eventually she came up and everyone was in shock. Also said that they can't understand how I look fine and not in a straight jacket myself. How I am dealing with it is amazing .

I believe I'm handling IT so well because I have faith in God and my W to fix this
To come back and be finally a whole person.

I'm not waiting for it but trust in life and W is strong.





Last edited by Irish M; 10/21/15 02:27 AM.

M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
Quote:
Not a diet of choice lol but it did it's job.
lol. My friend once referred to it as the "divorce diet". I laugh at that now. smile

Glad they are doing well and spending time with their grandparents. That's always nice.

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Just got back from a 3 night trip out of town.
On the flight back all I thought about was W.

When I want on trips in the past. She'd make me text her when I boarded the plane and the minute I landed.

Each night I'd call the girls and talk to my W about our day.
This Time as tough.

Upon pulling up on the driveway. W use to open the door and great me by my car. Jumping in my arms. Helping me in with my luggage.

This time . I had toake 2 trips from the car

I'm in the house now.
Tough coming back .just waiting for my D's to be dropped off by my parents.
So anxious to see them. I missed them like crazy.

They just pulled up.
I opened the door and they both jumped in my arms .
Huge long hugs

Love my D's

It makes it easier :-)

Habits of W will fade.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,227
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,227
Beautiful image of your Ds hugging you. In some ways your a very lucky man

Stay positive. Rd

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
You post made me sad

your D are lucky to have you also

Yes the memories do fade

everyone adjusts

and things happen for us for the good..I read it all the time on these boards

The LBS seems to come up higher, we find ourselves and if the MLCer does not turn around ,we usually attract better partners down the road

Hang in there


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hey RD
Yes I know I'm lucky for my D's
Your posts to me help me stay positive.
Wish I could buy you a beer some day.

Hi Peacetoday,
Sorry I made you sad.. It shouldn't because the hug from my D's more than enough love I coukd ask for in a lifetime.

I'll tell you a little story about the bond me and my D's have.

I was always the one who sat on their beds and told them story's that I made up each night.
Even today they ask me about the adventures of Jeremy.
I was always volunteering at school events and outings.
Very present in their lives. They tell me everything. Yes even about the boys.

Me and W wanted to get married early in our relationship.
We decided to have kids and wait until they were older to share the wedding with us.
As a familly.

The day of or wedding 4 years ago my D's were so excited
I didn't see them all day but when they arrived in their dresses and walked into the room I cried. It made everyone else cry. Such an emotional day. W walked down the isle in tears. I'll never forget her as she looked at me. We had the ceremony and even had rings for the girls. Something I can never repeat and wouldn't if I wNted to. Was the moment of US.

The love we had as a familly was so strong. But not strong enough for MLC
My family is still strong . Only W is on vacation in Lalaland

Before there was not a text message or goodnight wish without expressing our love
my W was the same .
Today they get it from me.

Before D's couldn't walk by W without giving her a hug.
W had so much pride in our D's. Since MLC, W hasn't seen the D's in 75 days and no interest to try.

MLC W is abusive and narcissistic into drugs and drinking with OM

That's why I feel the D's seeing their mom like this is so wrong. They know it's not her and not safe.

They also don't hate her or blame themselves.

W told them they were more "my last name" girls
Also told them the wedding was fake ect.

D's know better. It was magical.

I'm in Canada and winter is soon arriving . Preparing the lawn , closing the pool, getting ready for the first snow fall ( hopefully only in December)

D's are right by my side helping out. This P.M I'll make apple crisp and bake some pumpkin seeds. Love this time of year.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,227
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,227
Again , can I just say you are a blessed man and the tale of your wedding was touching. MLC or not your W is giving up very important time with your Ds and it's time she can't get back. Carry on being the best dad in the world , you teaching you Ds with every hug and supporting them through a terrible time in their young lives.

Just as a side note , I started telling Oilly Oliie stories to my S20 when he was 2. Oliie was a boy ( in my mind ) who lived behind a scrap yard and had fantastic adventures with inventions he made from scrap All my kids were told the stories and S20 still remembers those stories.

Take care and stay strong for those Angels. Rd

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
That was a beautiful story about your wedding!

Ive heard some people share how they had good Marriages here and that amazes me
Mine was not so good..so looking back we were a dead duck when MLC hit

I also don't really get the MLCer leaving the kids..That is my story too

But the drugs and drinking takes them away..WE are the lucky ones
we get to keep the stability of our lives and find ourselves

My kids and I became closer through ir all-

I hope you have a good weekend!


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
Always brings me a smile when I read how you and your daughters spend time together.

Glad to hear you got some time away, makes home even more special when you come back, huh?

You sound good, strong and focused. Sounds like you are on a good path smile


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I had a conversation with an old friend who I leaned on 10 years ago during a similar sitch with W.

A little history.

10years ago W gave me the i love you but not in love with you.
At the time I thought it was depression . Baby blues .
Today I know it was a major flag of what was to come. Sort of a quarter life crisis.
We shared the house one week me .. One week her so the kids could stay stable.
It started in the summer months as this time around.

She was less narcissist but her needs we're number 1.
The week she was at the house I would drop off food packages ( milk, bread, fruit, etc ) she was not doing groceries.
This lasted a few weeks until she left to live with a girlfriend of hers.

She then had an affair with a married man who had kids. He promised her the world , he would separate , take care of her .. Bla bla bla.
This was near Christmas.

I remember reaching put to her mom telling her that something was off with her daughter. Wasn't normal she'd neglect the girls. MIL blew me off then as she did now. Funny also she doesn't recall this ever happened 10 years ago. Neither does my W.

The OM finally called it off since he had no intentions of leaving his W.
She crashed and came back.

We put it under the rug. I forgave her . Knowing in my gut she was not herself.

I' m not saying there's a pattern to her madness. This time around was going to happen no doubt about it.

Have any of you experience a quarter life crisis ... And does it have an impact on the midlife crisis outcome.

Just curious .. Not expecting or waiting for the same thing to happen this time.

It's just my way of understanding things :-)



Last edited by Irish M; 10/25/15 10:43 PM.

M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 602
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 602
Hi Irish M, To me it sounds has though your estranged wife has some serious unresolved issues from long ago.



Love

Delboy

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
I agree with Delboy. I don't have any experience with the quarter life stuff, but it does sound like she is a restless soul and has been.

If I'm honest, I remember on my wedding night thinking this could be great or this could hell on earth. Chalked it up to nerves, but looking back, I do wonder about that moment smile

You take your chances. Sometimes it works out as you want it to. Others, it works out a different way.

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
If your wife didn't complete the "quarter life" crisis, she will revisit it at mid-life. Apparently she didn't do the necessary work at that time and it has come back to bite her.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Delboy, AJ and JOB

I hear you...

I can say it came back to bite her hard.

I had to message my STBXW information on my buying her out.
I need to draft a letter and have her sign it for the agreement of buyout.

I also sent her the form where she can buy the school pictures of the D's.

She replied.
Oh the gilrs are so pretty. I miss them everyday and it hurts so much not seeing them. Tell them I love them please.
Also asked if I would but extra pictures for her and her mother. She would pay me back.
No answer about the buyout. No future date on mediation.

I replied;
I think you should order your pictures yourself.
Things are complicated as they can be already without small exchanges in money. I will pass on your message to the girls. They are doing so good in school and great friends.


I told the girls .... They both looked at me with an empty glance. D'13 says ok.
D15 says.. I have email and a phone.. She can't message me directly??

I reminded both of them that they can message her any time. No comment.

Later at night I get a call from my FIL girlfriend . She was asking how are the girls. That my W was asking her for news about the D's a couple of days ago..
I told her they are great. Doing homework and that I messages W this afternoon about them.
Weird getting this call. They never call. I shouldnt put to much thought in it.

She also said W had her mother over to OM place. Can't get over the fact that MIL is supportive of that relationship. Then again MIL is still in the fog. Blood is thicker than water so I won't waste energie on it.

Hopefully W can agree to the letter and I can move on with the buyout. I feel I'm standing still until this is done.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
I do believe blood is thicker

at first MY xh family were by his side but after time they saw stuff

I never said anything to them about him,,just wished him the best-

They came to their own conclusions over time..they don't like his new wife

at this point they will have no contact with him until he dumps her

it takes a lot of time-


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Update... I got the ok for the letter at the bank. W will sign it tomorrow.

The rest of her message was all about money. Said her OM makes less than her and they are struggling. Guess the money she will get from me buying the house will go far. Or wasted .. What a shame.

She finished her message about the girls . How she knows they are safe and I am taking care of them. Also if they want to see her they can message her.

Again no interest or effort in seeing them.

Early this evening a call from FIL girlfriend.
She asks me if I am the one preventing the girls from seeing their mom.
???? I'm like what .
She says W told her she emailed the girls 200 times to see them. And it's me preventing them from seeing her.
???? I'm like really
She has messaged the girls a total of 8 times in the last 3 months.
3 of those messages were just hi, I miss you and we will see each other soon.
5 of those messages were I want to see you and you have to respect me.. Me .. Me and me

UnbelievabLe the lies and making me look like the bad guy

I told the girlfriend that I will not prevent the D's from seeing their mom.
I am not forcing them either. It is between the D's and their mom.

Really puts me off seeing her family at all.
When I do see them it's for the D's , I don't even talk about W.

Thursday I'll be at the bank. Just want this step over with. Hopefully no surprises on my credit rating due to W.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
Please make sure you are getting good legal advice. I understand wanting to strike while the iron is hot re: her agreeing to reasonable terms on the buyout, but if the rest of the divorce agreement is not settled too, you could be shooting yourself in the foot by doing this too early. What if she spends all the money, the divorce drags on, you've lost your leverage over her to get it done?

Just make sure you've run everything by a GOOD divorce attorney before you cut any checks.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
yup

I don't know your full situation

but my xh spent and spent
he put himself in debt and I had to drag our business out of the grave

KML is right..a good attorney to make sure everything is covered


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
It's been a while since I posted.
Still no contact from W to me or the D's
100 days + not seeing them
Close to 60 days no email to them

She has stopped messaging me about money and divorce.

I'm still going forward to buying her out of the house though.

Last night I was watching tv with the D's
A show that had a girlfriend questioning her identity , that she's lost in the relationship , doesnt know who she is bla bla

The D's got upset . These are things W told them before she left.

Only difference , this TV show girlfriend had a mother who guided her not to throw away a strong relationship . That she was who she was and he is who he is because of the relationship . Many couples don't have that and would die for it. Why throw it away...


My D's said " you see , that's what W mother should of done instead of pulling her away to lala land. "

They were so upset .. Angry .. Then started thinking that W would get pregnant .,,,

It's tough sometimes to keep them from venting and creating scenarios .

I listen , keep them stable and love them . Can't do much more than that.
Oh and hug them everyday . Something W is missing out on.

The longest W has been without the D's was our honeymoon. 10days
She went nuts
at 100 days , I don't know how she can do it.

Keep the light on ,, door ajar,,, let the rest happen by itself

Last edited by Irish M; 11/13/15 02:42 PM.

M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
sorry Irish

I know how hard it is especially in the start

My kids have gotten used to it over time

I always said good words about XH..(when his name used to come up)
In my situation after 9 years of MLC, and no contact for so long-His name does not come up often anymore

I would usually say - He is not well- he loves them but he can't be there , not their fault..maybe it is for the best because he is in crises, we can pray for him, forgive him, but we can't help him
he has to figure it out on his own and we have to move forward in our lives with out him

In my situation it seems to work as both my kids now 20 and 14 seem stable, and grounded..no trouble from either of them so far


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
one more thought

If she is drinking / using substances
she may be dangerous for the girls to be around
people who use alcohol and drugs can be crazy, mean and very erratic

one time years ago my D said daddy almost fell asleep at wheel

so although difficult, it may be for the best


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi Peacetoday

Yes alcohol and drugs are involved.
Her rage towards them the last time W saw them gave D's a clear message of her illness

They are stable with me, great grades, better friends
They are clinging to the idea that she will crash between Xmas and New Years
This is what happened 10 years ago.

I have other thoughts on that. Last time no drugs involved and OM cut it off.

I don't ever speak bad about their mom. Only to be causcious or her intentions

I'm new in this and since she didn't complete her journey 10 years ago... I hope this time for the kids sake she will complete it

I know the road is long .. I'm GAL in a major way.

Went on a date well 3. Nothing to get attached to or fall back on. Clearing my head and finalizing my affairs before I even think of a new ralationship

I get requests from me D's friends single mothers. Lol
Not going there either


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Irish

It is a long journey

You never know what the outcome

I think the addiction to the drugs and alcohol can lengthen it also,
and If Their new relationship breaks up Im sure that may help
but sometimes they will go on to OP#2

As time passes, everyone gets used to the situation
The LBS heals,,the kids adjust

sometimes the MLCer does turn around

I have a friend right now whose XH is trying to reconcile, she doesn't want to
I believe he was also in MLC
7 years later and 2 OP, Now he is back
almost like nothing happened-
its too late


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi Peace

Funny how they act like everything is ok or going it be

I don't know if they really believe it or they play the roll.

Also how they don't remember 3/4 of the things they didn't said
My STBXW doesn't remember wha she did to the D's
And that's after 3 months

Imagine 7 years wow
I think after 7years theres nothing left to reconcile

Hope your friend and yourself are doing well :-)


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Yes they revert to being young again
no responsibilities..no cares..no worry about their kids-
very sad for everyone-

all I can say is I am grateful that I was willing and capable to grow up and be the adult and parent my children alone


what would our kids do if everyone went off to play

In the end though we grow up, we have better relationships, probably another loving long term relationship or M if we choose. Our children will be with us
we succeed at work and in every way..you hear that a lot on the boards

While the Mlcer unfortunately is left with nothing


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
To add: the key is to understand what success means.

Sometimes the MLCr has all kinds of things. And they appear very successful. They can and do transition without the LBS to a successful life. That's rare though. Because usually to get to that success, they need to make amends of some sort. i.e. it's part of the forgiveness and healing, albeit the last step.

LBS will heal regardless. MLCr may not.

I've never met a MLCr, who wouldn't make amends, that you couldn't still see it in their eyes - that something was missing. Question is one of the chicken or egg - are they unwilling to make amends for past life (i.e. face their actions and the consequences) or are they not ready to be healed and have more to go?

That's how life is for all of us really. But it's more pronounced with the MLCr because of the damage they've done to those left in the wake.

I'm of the opinion that we should be able to face and deal with them humanely when it comes to that point (if it does) - so that all can heal. We're all human after all.

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi Peace and AJ

I completely agree Peace, if our kids didn't have one adult it would be chaos.
But my D's would say I'm the biggest kid of them all ( in a fun way)

So glad to be strong for them and give them the best chance.

AJ, great hearing from you. My MCLer is not one of those rare ones that has success. Her D's are not attempting to reach out to her, she lost her Appartment after a month, job position downgraded, certain friends and family have cut her off, car problems, money problems, ordered to pay me child support, filed for seperation and I fliped it to divorce after 3months due to adultery ( only a paper I know ) and whatever else I don't know about and don't care.

Me on the other hand, have my D's full time, great friends and family, just been offered a promotion with my job, I have the house, lost 15lbs looking cut...,

I know I'm stronger now and positive about MY outcome. Her, she can keep her path or join ME. When that time comes, I'LL decide.

This forun and you guys have brought me here. I thank you all very much xxx much love to you all .


Last edited by Irish M; 11/16/15 11:03 AM.

M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Yes irish…you are doing good

Congrats on promotion

I believe for those of us that choose the higher road, grace flows

and yes AJ
I agree forgiveness and understanding to the MLcer
WE are the lucky ones..and if they choose to make true changes and find their way back to a relationship with US their family, I believe most of us here would allow a friendship or co-parenting relationship and some might allow reconciliation
but if their addiction is more powerful than them, that will not be able to happen-
nor would it be in the best interest for all of us involved
they may need to hit a bottom,,in their time..or the crises has to work fully through which seems to take anywhere from 2-unknown years


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Peace ,

You sound very good and strong too x

We are not alone , they are :-)


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,202
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,202
Originally Posted By: AJM
Because usually to get to that success, they need to make amends of some sort. i.e. it's part of the forgiveness and healing, albeit the last step.

Originally Posted By: AJM
I've never met a MLCr, who wouldn't make amends, that you couldn't still see it in their eyes - that something was missing.

AJ, I’ve been thinking about this. I’m curious if this normally happens at the end of the crisis. How about those who never exit from MLC? I’m not sure if my H feels guilty to make any amends. He told me and our mutual friends multiple times that this (him leaving) is better for everyone. I’m sure he thinks that I’m happy as I can be, since I pretty much show PA all the time in these rare occasions of our interaction. So, there is no need to make amends.


M:50
H:52
S28 (my S from previous marriage)
M:17 + 3
BD: 06/12
S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Small update
Girls still haven't seen their mom in now close to 150 days
No contact at all for over 90

W has stopped seperation talks and is just living her new life life we probably don't exist

I've decided not to go back to see W father who is sick. It's too difficult for my D's to be there without their mom.
Also it upset FIL last time we were there. He went on about how he is mad at his D for neglecting the girls

Prepared the house with XMas lights outside. We are all looking forward to XMas even though W is not here.

Went in a date last night. Clearly I'm not ready. It was nice , got a lot of compliments and I returned them as well. Was very gentlemen like. Open doors, eye contact , good conversation . But at the end of t, it didn't feel right

We will see as time goes on


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
I am sorry that your girls haven't seen their mother in a while, but that is usually the case w/runaway spouses. They do not want to be reminded of family and responsibilities that they've left behind. It's such a shame because they miss out on a lot of the things that their children do from day to day.

I'm sure that if you pressed her about the marriage, she would begin the talks of separation/divorce once again. As long as you do not rock the boat, you won't hear any talk of divorce.

I'm sorry to hear about your FIL and the fact that he's sick. He doesn't understand what his daughter is doing and there's nothing you can do about it. If he tries to speak to her about her behavior, she'll not visit w/him again for a long time.

Christmas will be here before you know it and it's time to create some new traditions. I'm glad to see that you've been busy decorating. I'm sure you and your daughters will have a nice time even though your wife will not be around...but we can't predict what the future will hold and she might contact them around that time...time will tell.

Give yourself some time before jumping off the diving board of dating. It's nice to have some companionship of the opposite sex, but maybe you aren't ready to do it on a routine basis. Give yourself some time to heal and go from there.

I think you've been doing a wonderful job of taking care of yourself and your daughters. You've got a good handle on what is going on w/your wife and you've stepped back and given her time and space. I do hope that she wakes up some day and realizes that what she was looking for was right in front of her the entire time, i.e., husband, family and a nice home.

Try to enjoy your week!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Thanks for the reply Job.

It's so amazing the support here. Always positive and reassuring.

I wish I didn't have to remind myself constantly that W is not well, that she is no longer herself. That she is in Lalaland. My D's remind me as well as I do them. We are a strong bond and W was part of that. She has missed so much. Those with teens know how fast they change into adults.

I know in my heart she will wake up.

My D15 is so excited , even planning her decorations to Her room. Wants a white XMas too. So far here in Canada where I am , no snow.

Why is it we, speaking for myself , forget it's a decease and start to drift off into the thought of maybe they are normal. Maybe they (the MLcr) just wanted out. That the person we knew was never really the real them. Now what we see is the real person. My D's are questioning if W was ever the loving person we thought we knew. They are saying more and more that I wa the one that was always there for them to talk, volunteer at school , plan vacations.

Now I know my W was an important person to us. I think it's the girls venting and seeing her in a different way since she left . Maybe this way its like a self defence on the pain they feel. Making them less hurt by saying she was never a close mother at all. So they feel less loss.

We know we have our journey to furfill . W can look from the outside-in.

I'm still loving my life and girls . My familly


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
It can be difficult, distinguishing between the changes that are temporary and due to the crisis, and traits that were there all the time that we didn't see.

I've struggled with this. I know intellectually that in our 26 years together there was great love and intimacy. And there were a lot of classic MLC factors when he left.

But now, several years after the divorce, I'm amazed at the things I didn't see, or ignored, or accepted in our marriage. I see that the loving dad who did lots of activities with his kids, really was only willing to do the things that HE wanted to do. That the loving husband offered love that was conditional, love that I was always trying to win. That he wanted me to be interested in everything he was interested in, but couldn't be bothered to listen to ideas that excited me. That his infidelity early in our marriage, and 16 years in, weren't isolated slips, but part of a pattern that probably went deeper than I knew.

Now your wife sounds more like a manic episode or some other acute psych issue. I think there's a chance she will wake up and wonder how she got there. But if your daughters are starting to point out issues that your wife always had, there may be things you were ignoring.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
I think its also hard to know

I remember being so confused that my XH was stealing money from our business

having an affair and becoming SO unavailable for his kids

He was always a good dad and spent time with them especially our first born

He seemed to become so different . and even till this day where there is NO contact
No caring of his kids and their day to day lives
I don't get it
but I have chosen to accept it
hopefully your Wife will realize what she is missing,
as for today, we keep moving forward


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi KML

Yes manic that's for sure. A lot of bipolar in her family. So many stories came out after her departure
I got a message from her today. She has to transfer me child support since she gave me full custody.

It's always short of the full amount. Never any excuse or contact . It's done through bank transfer.

Funny thing is she has to assign a password along with a hint phrase so I could guess the password.

Today's was " my youngest daughters name in which I adore so much"

How could a mother use this and not even want to see them . Like she's thinking it but her il was is preventing her from doing it

anyway . 2nd partial payment out of 6 . I don't ask for the missing 4 full payments. I Just reply thanks


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi peAce , so good to hear from you.

I too have accepted it deep down.
It's the residue of things that remind me of her that brings me back to the sadness of her gone.

I also compare other wife's of friends and I still think, I know she was loving and my best partner and friend I could find.

Still I'm still in the beginning of this marathon . So time will tell

Hope you had a nice U.S thanksgiving


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Irish

Yes..it is a marathon
and every story has a different ending
some of us never really know what the result will be

I had a very vivid dream of XH last night
Its like 9 years, and Im in a new R for the past 6 plus years
but the dream seemed so real -
it was really nice to see XH and have a connection in the dream
i kept saying to xh -we are just friends now and that is ok

when it turns upside down for her, you will probably here from her-

hope you have a good night


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Peace

Dreams are tough. I have them now and again. When I wake up I have to think about it and bring myself back to reality.

For it turning upside down, I'm not sure she would reach out. She is a person that always had to much pride. If the decision was made failed she will be too ashamed to show her face. In a dispute, she would put up a wall and I would always have to start the communication to fix an issue. She'd sweep it under the rug.
She was someone who put herself in a bubble and she needed space. Even with the girls. She would have an argument about something so simple as the girls left the milk out. She would tell them in a way that would spark attitude in a teen. Small frustration would occur and W would know that she went overboard. She would not go see the girls and settle things. She'd wait until they came to her.

This would never last more than a day.

It brings us to now. I know her thinking is along side her moms. MIL always says " if you love someone set them free, if they come back it was meant to be."

I agree to this but W cutting D's off and saying " they will contact me when ready"
In this MLC this ain't going to work. After all the hurt W has caused D's.... They are not going to make the first move. D's have lost all trust in W. W will have to work triple time to repair the damage she has done. The longer this goes the greater chance will be that W losses D's forever.

My neighbours EXW did the same. His D was 10 at the time. She's now 22.
Took her 10 years to start seeing her mom. Once a year for a 2 hour lunch on her birthday. Even that she told me is too much.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
I believe if a MLCer parent was sincere and tried to reestablish a relationship with a child they had abandoned and the LBS was not interfering,
I do think most children would speak with the parent if the parent was sincere..it may take some time

I guess we never know who they have changed into during MLC, so its hard to say how they will act in the future
I have read different stories posted here over the years and I guess it is best to keep
focusing on ourselves and playing out in our mind a positive ending:

like for me, I play out this: I hope one day my xh reaches out with true sincerity and establishes a connection with his kids..It may never happen but I choose to think positive and let it go. and I will give it time as much time a needed and I wish him the best
this way I am not resentful , I don't talk bad about him and I am grateful that my kids are ok and we all landed on feet


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
Irish, I think you are seeing the pattern but not yet accepting it. Bipolar (other psych issues too?) runs in the family.

MLC is usually about dealing with the past issues you've put off. What you describe seems a bit different.

That's not to say she won't find a way. If your D's stay away long enough, it almost becomes like a stand off. Until somebody gives in. My guess is your W has the compelling reason to overcome her past actions and reach out to them. She's still fighting it and may continue to for a long time. Your D's, like you, want a different outcome.

If and when your W reaches out to them, if sincere and heartfelt, they'll be receptive after testing her. Don't worry about that.

That's a long way off most likely. Very long. For now, the family mourns. And hopes silently. Individually. Quietly.

It'll play out as it is going to. You know your part is to be the parent. To live a good life. Be a good father and man. Your D's know their parts (similar to yours.) Only one other needs to play their part until its done.

Peace,

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hi Irish, I think these are wise words from AJ (AJ, I so appreciate your posts & what you post often stays with me - thank you for your wisdom.)

Your W may be having an MLC, it may be a mental health episode. We can't really be sure and it is best to keep an open mind I think.

I think what is clear is that from her end, something is significantly out of balance. I don't believe you lose all contact with your nearest and dearest unless that is the case. But I too believe that will run it's course and she will want to rebuild things with them - and perhaps with you too? But that may or may not happen soon, we just don't know. So for now what is, is - and acceptance of her chosen path is the best way I think. She is doing what she feels she needs to do for herself at this point.

It sounds as though your are blessed with two lovely daughters who understandably mourne the loss of their Mum. They won't ever forget that you were there for them when they truly needed this. And hopefully in years to come, things will be restored with their Mum and they will understand and forgive what has happened.

For now, what AJ wrote about 'your part' resonated so much with me and I think that is the right path to follow.

Take care my friend xx

Last edited by Sotto; 12/05/15 10:45 AM.

T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi AJ and Sotto

So good hearing from you both. This forum without support from amazing souls such as you would of faded out long ago.

Mental issues do run in the family. I do see that in my W but I also see her in MLC. Maybe a cocktail of both. W's family told me all they wanted to but many stories are still kept hidden in their closet.

Don't get me wrong I'm still standing. Love the person my W was. I am open for a new relationship with her. Now knowing this about her , I will be a more understanding husband and help her regain herself. If she wants me too.

Yes I have amazing daughters. I went to their parent-teacher interviews at their school yesterday. W did not show up.
Every teacher told me that the girls were more serious about their work, polite in class, no more attitude, better friends etc

Most of them know about my W. The girls have shared this with them. I had one teacher cry when I met her. She knows W. She told me she still can not believe this is happening. That she saw us as the perfect couple. My W always praised me on the love I have to the family. That she doesn't recognize my W at all and contact is now zero. All this was hard to listen too but it reminded me that it was not my fault.

I also got the comments of how a great dad I am, strong and positive. They questioned me on how I get up in the morning. That they would be in bed sucking their thumbs. That the girls love me so much.

I answered. I love my girls so much. I get up for them. Also I get up for me because I am no good to anyone if I'm a vegetable. That I and the girls understand that W is sick and it's out of our hands, it is not our fault. We are living our lives the best we can.

All in all it was a boost.

So proud of my girls


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Irish

Hang in there
the grieving process takes 2 years give or take

continue on your path, you are doing well and as we continue to do the right things, which you are, all good will come your way

It may not be exactly the way you wanted, but most of us here as LBS, do seem to turn out good and much better than we could have anticipated.


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi Peace,

I see your D is still strong and at the same time not judging her dad.
Hope he sees the long term work he needs to do to repair what he did.

For those thinking of dating. I went out again last night to what I thought was a movie and a drink after.
Listening to her talk, her thoughts on relationships and family.
It made me think more and more about W. I am clearly still very much in love with her and I think I'm looking for a crutch. I ended the night early. On my drive home I felt actually guilty. What the heck am I doing. I felt like I was betraying my D's.
They are the last 2 that need me to think of another woman.

I drifted off a few times on the date. Compairing my date to me W.
Surely my date was in better shape and had a better career. She seemed to be glued to me always touching me in some way. Complimenting me abut everything.
With all this attention I didn't want it from her. I wanted it from my W.

On the drive my thoughts flashed back to the week my W dropped the Bomb. It was amazing. We laughed so much at a comedian on comedy channel it hurt.
We planned our summer vacation and we were still talking about selling the house and upgrading.
How did I get from there to here.

Put up the tree this morning with the girls. I painted my youngest D's nails and played Zelda with my oldest. Simple things that W shared with us.
Not an easy day. I know it's tough for everyone.

Love and peace everyone.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
Irish, you're not ready to date. It's not fair to the women you date, and yes, your daughters don't need to deal with it now.

Try finding a meetup group where you can go out and do things with a group, so you can get adult social interaction without dating.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hi Irish, I agree with kml. Apart from the unwelcome complication for your D's, it truly isn't fair on the woman you have been out with. How would you feel if she read all that you posted above?

I hope you will let her know that you aren't ready to see anyone, and likely won't be for a good while. Sometimes we need to try these things - I think men in particular seem to want to date sooner - I don't know why that is, but I notice it on the forum here.

I agree that some non-romantic GAL would be a great idea though...

Take care smile


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 574
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 574
Hi Irish

The only way to find out if you are ready to move forward with someone else is to try dating - you have done this and see that its not right for you yet; you realise that you are still in love with your w, so from this point of view it was a positive thing to do. All I ask (and what kml and sotto have also said) is that you never string any woman along, that you make it clear from the get go that friendship is where your at right now, that way no one gets hurt.

Your and your d have such a beautiful bond, its lovely to read about. They will look back at this time and see the very special dad that you are.

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi Sotto and KML
:-)

Yes it was supposed to be a friend date
She is aware of my situation. I think on her end she wanted more. Actually I know it now.
Reason why I cut it short.

Unwanted to get out with her to change my thoughts of my W in MLC
It only made me want W more.

I have had certain FaceBook friends hit me up on this as well.

I felt guilty because I would have never went out on a friend date like that ever while W living here.

Guess it's pool night and hockey with the buddies for a while still.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Irish

I agree with the others about not dating yet

I think dating would distract you from doing the growth and grief work that is needed after Separation
without finishing the grief work, it will only come up again and again
no way to the other side without feeling it

The way I understood this process for me is,I would stand for a good amount of time, I gave my XH every opportunity to work his issues through and at the same time I was in therapy every week dealing with my pain and making positive change
This way the grief work gets finished and the MLCer has ample time to come home
I think once the grief work gets done, there is less of a draw to make the M work, unless the MLCER shows drastic change in their choice,
at that time, other doors may just open
if you date b4 the work is done, you may just create more pain for yourself or draw in someone who may not be the best for you


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I sent a message to my W last Wednesday. The financing of the house in my name has to wait another 6 months. Her late payments and no payments on certain loans she has that I cosigned has affected my credit. I am clear of the responsibility but the bank can only finance in 3-6 months. I also asked her if automatic money transfer would be easier for her when she pays child support.
Instead of emailing me the excuse of why she can't or partial.

Got a reply message from W today. She's fine with the wait of 6 months.
The auto transfer she said ask the judge.

She signed off the message saying how much she misses the girls. She wakes up crying. It hurts so much not seeing them. I miss laughing with them, watching TV, camping, just having fun with them. Miss their laughs and their jokes.

That was nice. I felt maybe she is seeing clarity a little in her choice.

Then a second message came in.

She said:
I miss them every day. They need to respect me. My choice for me. I am their mom. They need to apologize for not trying to see me. I gave birth to them, they owe it to me. They need to respect me. I spent the last 15 years raising them. I deserve it for that. How could they just erase me so fast
If they don't respect me and don't reach out its their loss.

Wow . There it is. Me me me .

Guess she's still pretty deep into it.

What a shame to see she is still where we left her 5 months ago.

I replied to her.

Sorry you are crying . You chose this and nothing me or the girls did to make you chose this path.
The girls don't owe you an appology. They did nothing wrong

Merry Christmas


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
I'm guessing that was a little tough for you, Irish. The seesaw can be nauseating at times.

For what its worth, I think said the right thing. Keeping it brief and on point was also the right way to go. Try not to say any more nor get sucked into an argument.

This IS her row to hoe. Not yours. Not the girls. And no, they don't owe her anything. Quite the opposite for no other reason than she's the parent.

She seems to have a way to go. Give her the space to go. smile

What's the plans for Christmas?


AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Irish

she sounds very confused almost like she is the "teenager" wanting her parents to apologize
she obviously is not seeing clearly
I agree with AJ, you were authentic, brief and to the point
Wife may not agree or appreciate it, but we are powerless over them and their choices and perceptions
I know how hard it is,,we all just want them to wake up
even if just for the kids


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Gosh Irish, that was a seesaw. And very illuminating. Lots of sadness and regret in the first message. Then anger, entitlement and self pity in the second.

You've already had some good advice about your reply, which I also think was fine. I agree that brevity and not getting drawn in are so important if she is in this frame of mind. That way, you hopefully maintain some little reserves of goodwill among everyone. As it was, you shot a little truth dart on behalf of your girls - a papa bear moment - but it wasn't mean, just honest and direct. That is is fair enough and I would let things rest there for now.

Your W is clearly hurting, but doesn't appear to have reached the 'what have I done?' stage. Sounds like she is more at the 'this is what THEY need to do (in order to support my recent life choices)' stage. As others have said, she has a way to go yet.

Luckily your D's have one sane parent for now Irish - so calm, steady and loving is the way to go I think.

Take care my friend xx

Last edited by Sotto; 12/12/15 09:36 AM.

T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 602
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 602
Hi Irish M, just to say about a month (late Feb 04) after my Ex W left us, she said in a letter to me that she was being so selfish. On Mothers day last year (which is in late March over here), The OM wasn’t at home when my 3 daughters called to see her, she broke down and cried and said that she was so sorry for being so selfish. This of course also made my 3 girls cry. So it doesn’t seem that my Ex has come to terms with what she’s done or the damage she’s done to them.

Just be there for your 2 lovely girls, and give them a hug from me.

Wishing you & your family a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year

Love

Delboy

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Thanks for the comments AJ, peace and Sotto

Christmas will be good. House is decorated in and out :-)
My D's even decorated their rooms with lights and mini trees. They are excited as ever.

XMas is usually at my parents with my brothers, their wives and kids

We never did anything with W's side so no change in tradition for the girks :-)

I'll take a week off between XMas and New Years and get some local activities and shows. Star Wars is on our list so we will have to do a marathon to watch all the movies before we see the new one.

We usually travel to Mexico or Caribbean but this year I'm planning that trip in March


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Irish

That is great..Im glad your family will be available at Christmas so there won't be many changes..stability is so important for the kids

Enjoy your Sunday!


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 564
1
Member
Offline
Member
1
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 564
Irish, thanks for responding to my thread. Your words really helped me.mi must admit I keep reading them for a shot of self esteem. Having a spouse just leave without warning is a hurt I would not wish on my worst enemy.

Reading your thread And hearing how you've been dealing with all this has been inspirational. You are showing your girls so much by being present in their lives and respecting all the women you love.

I know you are walking a tightrope but you are doing that and so much more.you have been a wonderful dad.

Last edited by 123Gwen; 12/14/15 05:33 AM.

M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
― Maya Angelou



Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi Dellboy
Wow to your comment .
Your girls are strong to reach out to your exW. Shame she hasn't yet realized what she has done.
I'll read up on your posts more. Seems you are the solid base for your kids.
I'm sure it doesn't get easier seeing the pain our children live through.
Sure they show strength but deep down they are hurting.
I hug mine everyday and tell them I love them .

Take care my friend


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Peace and Gwen
My 2 fav ladies.

We share the stregth that our kids give back to us for the many years we showed them love and respect before MLC tore our families apart.

I know I'm proud that my daughters and they know it's not healthy being around their mom.

Our kids chose to stand next to us. It shows we are doing the right thing.

Of course we want them to have relationships with our MLC'r if and when they wake up, but we raised them properly with love and guidance to chose that for themselves.

I look at my girls laughing this weekend and I smile.
We watched the grinch and laughed the same way we did if W was there.
They chose not to change their life.

W however is not enjoying these small pleasures.
I live for them xxx


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
Hi Irish. Sounds like fun.

Some things to consider as you move along.
Quote:
We usually travel to Mexico or Caribbean but this year I'm planning that trip in March
Quote:
We watched the grinch and laughed the same way we did if W was there.
For now, I get that you're maintaining the same traditions and keeping things on an even keel. It won't be long before your daughters are looking for new traditions and even more leadership from you.

Something you may have missed in Dellboy's post is something I've seen a lot of lately in my own family and in others I pay attention to. I was talking to a woman at a party this past weekend, and she was being nosy (I don't mind; we're neighbors) and asking about the house and my ex etc. Before I could finish the story, she was telling me about her mom and dad. It's 30 years on and her parents can talk to each other. Her dad was the one that went high and to the right and married a woman 20 years his junior. He wreaked havoc in the family doing it. It was years before her and her dad spoke. Many years. But they have a good relationship now.

Did he ever admit the havoc he wreaked? I didn't hear it from her.

Another story is my aunt. She left my uncle (he's family) 30 years ago. Her boys are still angry to some degree. But in private, she tells me how sorry she is for ever leaving and being so selfish. Do the boys know that? Not likely that it would help them. Do they have a good relationship? Yes. So does my aunt and uncle and their spouses.

My point is that this point in time is just that. A point in time. What happens next is up to you. Whether or not she ever comes to her senses (sic) is up to her. Giving your daughters a good start in life is currently wholly in your control and what you do with that time is on you. I think you're doing great with them, but wanted to point out that you shouldn't get too hung up on W and what she may or may not do, even in time. It may be 30 years or it may be that you never hear it. She may never overcome whatever is driving her to be like this. Or she might and not tell you or anyone else. That happens a lot because of the embarrassment factor smile

Figure out you and your daughters. Give them the life you envisioned for them. Sure it won't include their mom at this point, but that's the only thing not present in the vision.

As for you, your daughters want to see you happy and content. They are looking at you to see how you handle things. Years from now, if they are in a similar situation (and I hope not) they will remember how you handled things. If they are in a different difficult situation, they will remember how you handled things. How you lived. How you reacted. How you treated them. Or as Maya said, "how you made them feel."

Get what I'm saying? It's likely your W will regret her decisions, but that's sooooooo far in the future IF it happens, it will be irrelevant to you and your girls. Try not to wait or live too much in the past. Come up with new traditions in the near future. Things are just for you and your daughters. Things that the three of you can look back on and look forward to. Little things and big things.

Set the standard as you've been doing.

I hope this is helpful encouragement. I really like how you're handling things. I think you will be glad you did it even more than you are now.

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 602
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 602
Hi Irish M, I’ve been rummaging thru my computer and I came across the following copies of letters that Liz (my Ex) wrote and sent to our kids a week after she left us. I have put down their ages at the time of these letters.

My additions are in brackets and my girls ages were correct back then, also all the names are made up.

I hope this will help in trying to understand what’s going thru some ones head during a MLC.

Love
Delboy


Mon 2nd Feb 2004

To my darling Louise (Aged 17),
I apologise for my behaviour towards you over the past weeks. I know that I have been very selfish with what I have done and for the way that I left home last week. Dad (Delboy) gave me a letter that said I had damaged our relationship I can understand why.

I will try and explain, a couple of years ago my feelings changed towards your dad, I felt that we didn’t have anything in common, I gave up trying, about a year ago I got involved with Nic, he would cheer me up and make me feel a lot better. I know that it was wrong. But by this time I had fallen for him, I did not mean to break a family up.

I have been thinking of you, sorry that I haven’t been in contact but I was afraid you wouldn’t speak to me.

Love U always Mum

I will write again or if I have the courage send you a text or even phone. I hope that you are well I miss you a lot

Love you.
From Mum
X




Mon 2nd Feb 2004
To my darling Ann (Aged 19),
I apologise for my behaviour towards you over the past weeks. I have been selfish? With what I done and for leaving home the way that I did. I had a letter off Dad (Delboy) saying that I’d damaged our relationship and to explain why I’ve done all this.

I will try, I felt that me and your Dad had nothing in common after all these years, I got fed up, I think it started after we lost money (Delboy’s business failures). I don’t mean to blame anyone but these things happen, about a year ago I became fond of Nic he would cheer me up. And I would turn to him, I know that it was wrong, but I couldn’t help it.

I just want to say that I am so proud of you. You are everything that I am not.
I am sorry that I have not been in contact with you but I was afraid that you would not speak to me after all that I have done.
I really miss you I am always thinking of you, I love you very much, hope you are well. I well text U or call you soon.

Take care of yourself
Lots of Love Mum
X





Mon 2nd Feb 2004
My darling Dawn (Aged 13),
I just want you to know that I am sorry for what I have done. I know that you didn’t understand my behaviour when I was home the last time, because I saw the way you looked at me.

I would not talk with your Dad about how I felt, that is why I drifted apart from him. I want to say that I miss you a lot and love you. I am always thinking of you and hopefully soon I will be able to talk to you.

All My Love
Mum X

P.S. I will understand if you don’t want to speak to me. I will always be your Mum no matter what!

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Once again a very powerful message AJ. Yes new memories for sure were added this year and planned for next year aswell. I also want to keep traditional things as well. Life doesn't stop because W is gone missing. We enjoyed those activities and I'm glad we can still enjoy them even though W is not a part of it.

Maybe W is not missing anything. Her head is not screwed on right. I have no clue and I don't want to know. I haven't even tried to see where she was living. It won't change me or what happens next. I'm living my life the best I can and sharing it with my Girls. All I could say is if it was me gone.... I'd be off the chart crazy for not seeing my D's for this long.

Delboy.... Wow incredible letters. My Girls got a message like those only no appology just that she left me not them ( funny thing is she ignored them and was fine with me for the last 3 weeks she was here) . Also said the Past 10 years she faked everything ( so I guess her being their mom was pretend)

I was told by a few ... Their words mean nothing ... Actions are the only thing we can believe in.

Delboy , those are incredibly sad letters. She has no clue but they probably made things worse than better. I feel for you brother.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Got a message today that W has XMas gifts for the D's she hasn't seen in the past 5 months.

Makes me sick that she thinks she can entice them with gifts to see them and all will be forgiven between her and them.

I had this discussion with the D's last week and both want no gifts from her and neither want to buy anything for her. I relayed that message to the W. W of course doesn't believe me . Wants to talk to the D's and hear it from them directly.


The last time they spoke to W on the phone was over 4 months ago. W told them that she was living with OM.

I will ask D's once again if they want to call W. Told W to be near the phone tonight.

She replied she's always ready for the D's. It hurts hearing that because she has sent out less than 10 emails to them in the last 5 months. Told them directly that she doesn't want to live with them but just go out and have fun and hot chocolate.
She has tried to call them 0 times at home and cancelled their cell phones that she was paying for.

Very frustrating

I'll leave it up to the D's to decide what they want to do.

Last edited by Irish M; 12/21/15 07:09 PM.

M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hi Irish, I'm glad to hear that your W has reached out to your D's hoping to offer gifts. I wouldn't see it as an enticement in the hope that all will be forgiven, but it sounds as though she would like to reach out during the festive season.

That said, I can understand this raises difficult feelings within the family and it isn't surprising that you all feel pretty raw about this. As you say, I think it is up to your D's and in the longer term I think it is best for them if they are able to have a R with their Mum - as long as the contact isn't causing them further difficulties....

I don't really have much wisdom to offer, but I hope you manage to navigate this with them, and hopefully other wiser posters will drop in too.

Take care, Sotto x


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Irish

I also don't know way to say

It shows, although she can't be a real mom to them, she is thinking of them
maybe in her mind she is trying to rationalize her unavailability with gifts
I think they run and run from their pain then maybe they stop for a breath b4 they run again
Personally I would not rock the boat
I think our MLCers still have to figure this out on their own
our judgement of them will not help the situation

I would probably thank her and if the girls do not want to talk now..I would allow them to choose and explain that to her in a non hurtful brief-but authentic way

When my XH recently tried to reached out after 6 years, although no real phone contact was made..I told My D at least you know he cares and has made amends]
reminded her its not her fault nor in her control..she agreed and let it go
My 14 S denied any contact immediately on FB with him and deleted his request..
He hasn't talked about it since..

I have watched a close friend forgive her XH and help him to heal his life( she does not want him back) but
they now have an amazing friendship and he is once again there for his kids
It has been unbelievable to watch and his getting better has been a direct result of her kindness and forgiveness ,,this was a guy who left her penniless and left to have several affairs..this is many years later,,he will be celebrating this holiday with her their kids and her family..
pretty amazing!


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
What a stressful night on my D's and me.

It took everything to convince them to call W.
I was in the kitchen on the other side of the house. I could hear D15 talking (more yelling) at W. I knew it wasn't going to be easy.

They both came out of the room crying telling me W wanted to talk to me.

I tried to remain calm and to the point. W said she wanted to see the D's on the 24th for lunch. If I could convince them. I said no, She should ask them.
W said no and that I had to convince them like I convinced them tonight to call her.
If I didn't she would prevent me from travelling with them to the states this spring.

Sorry . I lost it. Told her that I don't like being threatened into forcing my D's in doing something they don't want.
Then she went on saying they need to respect her as their mom.

I told her when she first left to find herself and ended up finding OM after 2 weeks and neglecting the kids for 5 months...they are affected by that.

She again said I left you not them. I was unhappy .. Needed to get out.


I told her congrats on finding happiness. This is what it looks like.

And i hung up.

The D's were clearly upset. They said they were done with her lies. W doesn't remember anything she did and said to them. Still thinks the D's are upset only because W left me.

I wanted to email her a list of things she did to remind her... I won't.

Anything the girls brought up about what happened she avoided the topic or told them they were liars. The girls needed to vent.

I was able to calm them down and I asked them about the 24th. They said NO at the same time like stereo surround sound.

Now to get back on track... Enjoy the Christmas season and crest new memories for me and the D's

W has a long way to go. What scares me is I see a lot of MIL in W. Her mother came out of her tunnel cold and narcissist . I think this is W fully cooked and will be like this forever.

One good thing. She didn't mention OM once. She still had not made that public.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 181
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 181
Irish,

For the record. I got the same "I left you not them" line, while she drove away with not one of them.

The lies, deceit, me, me,me is part of the script. A child of 12 should understand her plight and agree with everything they do. yada, yada whatever.

I was going to say don't convince your daughter's to speak with your EXW. Just be there for them. That is your one and only job....be the rock for them.

My daughter see's her Mom occasionally but she has a huge wall built up with her. It took a few years for her to get there but will never say anything she feels around her Mom. The monster comes roaring out breathing fire and this is now 6-7 years after the bomb.

Be the parent that is there and don't force them to do anything. They can make up there own minds on what type of relationship they want. We don't respect or want to be in a relationship, parent or otherwise with a liar, cheater or someone you can't trust at all so why would they. Give them the space to be there own person.

I feel for you but you are doing great.

mirage

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
Irish,
Oh my goodness! I am so sorry that this happened. My heart goes out to you and your daughters. What a horrible thing for their mother to say to you about convincing them to meet up w/her. She is very selfish right now and can't see the light of day or recognize the damage she is creating.

I have to agree w/Mirage. Don't force your daughters to do anything that they do not want to do w/respect to their mother. It is her place to repair the damage that has been created by HER when it comes to her daughters. Listen and be there for them as you have been doing.

Again, I am so sorry that their mother is being such a selfish woman right now. I pray that a miracle will take place and your wife get some much needed professional help before she's damaged her relationship w/her daughters to the point of no return.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Sotto, Peace, Mirage and Job

I really appreciate your support during this W encounter. It threw us all back. I wish she would of stayed gone for the holidays at least instead of trying to please herself with this gesture.

I was shopping with D13 last night. We bump into an exW of one of my old friends. I've seen her around a few times and have always said hi, talked kids and went on our way. My friend and his EXW have been seperated for a few years.

Anyway, she says hi, gives me a sad look and asks how are you? I reply great, knowing very well she knows about my breakup.
She says she bumped into someone who told her the news. She couldn't believe it. I figured that someone was my W. She went onto telling me W's version of how she was so unhappy and had to get out of her life. I heard all this before. She also said she had nothing good to say about me. That is what frustrates me. It's been 5 months and she still has to justify her actions. I said only good things. Hope W figures out what she needs to be happy. She was amazed at how calm and collective I was. Complimented me on being strong for the girls. W is losing out big time.
I made one mistake. Told her the name of OM. She quickly facebooked searched him and said OMG gross. W clearly isn't sharing her trophy with anyone.

Besides all that she tries to friend this woman who she hated in the past. Even her she was surprised. When me and W would see her I'd say hi, W would smile. When W was alone and they crossed paths she wouldn't give her the time of day. Now she is trying to have drinks with her.

Reminds me of a party W went to about a month before the BD. She came home talking about a Caroline (name change) . How much fun they had. I then caught on that this was the Caroline she hated. Her old boss that made her cry over and over again. Now they are BFFs lol . Wow

I have had a W overdose and all I want to do is write her a long letter or calling her to tell her to stop bad mouthing me. How long does that last? I know writing her is meaningless. I'll regret doing it.

It's the 23rd , hopefully now me and D's can go back to the upbeat life we have. Christmas is still coming.

Christmas will come with ribbons. It will come with tags. It'll come with packages, boxes and bags. And I won't be puzzled 'till my puzzler is sore. Then I thought of something i hadn't before. What if Christmas, i thought, doesn't come from W. What if Christmas, perhaps, means a little bit more.

Love irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 181
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 181
Irish,

It's been 7 years since bomb day and my EXW still bad mouths me to whoever will listen.

I am so glad that I took the high road(made a huge difference with our kids) and that I GAL'ed. Like you I'm doing great and it shows to people I meet along the way.

You can tell when people are complete on the inside and ones that are not.

Who do you want to be?

Mirage

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
like that Mirage

Its true

Many of us here take the high road as there seems it is the only road that makes sense
I sense Irish is already on it

years later we see the damage our X's have created mostly for themselves as many of us have moved out of the way


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
Quote:
I have had a W overdose and all I want to do is write her a long letter or calling her to tell her to stop bad mouthing me. How long does that last? I know writing her is meaningless. I'll regret doing it.
Yes, like Mirage mentioned - years or maybe forever. Depends on the person and their ability to heal in a healthy way. Have to admit, the cards are stacked against that, don't you think?

For me it's been what? 8 + years. My ex still bad mouths me to whomever will listen. Kids included. The new husband? Let's just say I don't feel it's a competition. The new friends? Check. She is now long time friends with a woman I refer to as butter face. The same woman my daughter asked about and ex told her she didn't like her either.

It takes as long as it takes, amigo. But as others have mentioned, as you get out of the way they find something else to focus on. For now, your W hasn't found that. You might have noticed how she focuses on the leaving you vs. the family thing, right? That's about all she can focus on right now. No capability to see beyond the end of her nose.

How will she come through this? Nobody knows, but I don't advise watching the train-wreck. You'll see more of it then you want anyway.

Professing love and adoration months or days before BD? Check. Got that too. In fact, on the bingo board of MLC, I think I just about have bingo. None of us here are alone in that. Many of us have similar stories. Some are funnier than others. Some are just sad.

You are a lucky man to have your D's and to be their rock of support. As Mirage mentioned, that's your one and only job. Don't succumb to the idea of retribution and in fact, don't fight back. You cannot win an argument with a crazy person. smile

Merry Christmas! Sounds like a good one brewing...

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Mirage, yes the high road. Definitely my path. I can't even tell W what I think of all this to her face and how upset I am. I could never do it behind her back. I respect the woman she once was too much.

Peace, I know you are definitely on the high road. I'm only 5 months in and I feel I've seen the worse it could get. I know I'm wrong lol

AJ, can't believe 8 years plus and no remorse.from her. You are a strong man.
I'm sure pride and embarrassment prevents them from apologizing. They continue the charades to fill their empty lives.

All 3 of you are great role models. All newbies are lucky to have you here.

Update. After the call that the D's don't want to see W. They got called down to the school office. Each had an envelope handed to them by the secretary. Gift cards from their mother. No sign of W there. Just dropped them off

They wrote a note on the envelop and walked over to W's work and put it in her mailbox. They were livid that their mom did that.

D13 keeps saying she's done with mom. I know it's part hurt but also part loss of trust in their mother.

Hopefully today can be MLC-less


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
Quote:
AJ, can't believe 8 years plus and no remorse.from her. You are a strong man.
I'm sure pride and embarrassment prevents them from apologizing. They continue the charades to fill their empty lives.
I have no idea if she had remorse or not to be honest. I suspect not. I think she worked herself up to a point of blaming me so much that she believed the various stories. I mean, what would be the alternative, right? wink

Over time, you start to not really care about the remorse, apology, etc. You move on. It was a long time ago I realized that even though she left, I'd have to be the one to "leave" the relationship. I was right - she would have happily continued to abuse, exhort, or otherwise assault me for reasons I gave up on knowing. And that was really the hardest part after watching what she has done to the kids. Letting go of the idea that I'll ever get an apology or some sort of reconciliation of past events. But I do have a very good chance I never will (can't see the future).

The rawness goes away. It fades. The attempts to harass, become ridiculous. The words mean nothing. You learn to put all of it in its place without re-writing your own history. It takes longer than making up stories, but it can be done.

Once the world is seen back in its place, it starts to come together. After the initial shock and awe.

I'm not surprised that your D's are angry, Irish. It'll be a long road and they are lucky to have a father like you to help them and guide them. As you sort through the various emotions, try to remember your W is human and prone to imperfections. Try to sort the feelings apart from what she's done/doing to you from how she is treating the kids so you can best help the kids navigate. What you do now, is far more important than anything you can do later for them.

I think you know that, but wanted to lend a little encouragement.

Merry Christmas!

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
hope you had a good Christmas!

AJ is right
it all fades in time and once you have grieved the R and M..
you are less attached to outcomes
It begins to NOT matter anymore
what the MLCer is doing becomes unimportant
we stop thinking about them
you learn to expect nothing
and sometimes I am grateful my XH left me in full control of the kids
This way he has no influence on them
they do not get continually hurt by him or OW
they do not have to see him drunk or high
and they are doing well and better than I could have hoped in the start of this

sorry that your girls are in pain
they too will heal
the kids take the cue from us
if we are forgiving..they learn that
if we stay angry..they learn from that
it all takes time to heal and forgive


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi AJ and Peace

Yes I believe Time heals all and forgiveness will one day come

It will be far away since the hurt she did to the girls alone is unforgivable.
Mothers don't treat their kids this way. From a month before BD she was a different person. The D's won't accept anything less than what she was.

I won't accept W if the D's don't. My D's brought up a few points about their mom.
How I missed it. I am so sorry I let W do this to them. Hurt them. And neglect them for much longer than I thought. My rose coloured glasses are off. I should of been the one that left her long ago.

My D's said tonight that their mom is dead to them.
They remember only W being good years ago.
They hate her side of the family and won't ever see them again.
With this damage it made it worse.

I also know they we were all depressed the last 6 months when W was here. Like W's depression was contagious.

Since W had been gone. We are so much better. Our time together is real. I have done so many repairs and painting rooms. I even sleep better now. The girls are even calmer. No fights between them.

W use to keep me upstairs to watch hours upon hours of TV or movies. Got nothing done in the house. Now I hardly watch tv and I don't miss it.

i am so looking forward to 2016


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
Hey Irish. I am a follower of yours and continue to be in awe of what an amazing man you are with your daughters. Glad you are having a good holiday and just wanted to wish you all a Merry Christmas smile


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Irish

I think it is a long road back for the MLcer to return to who they once were
I think it is possible but unlikely

Sound like your girls are processing all that has happened
and you are there to guide them
I believe all our kids have a great chance of recovery from MLC as long as one parent is available, so they feel validated and not crazy by what they feel

AS for your W, the story and ending will take time and you will watch how it all unfolds
We never know, but as long as you continue on your path for yourself letting her go-you will be guided..doors will open and everything will be made clear in time


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
Interesting, Irish. If I think back to that time in my life, the first thing I remember as I read your post was that I felt a little guilty for feeling glad she left, even though it was on Mother's day and she left the kids with me. Lots of mixed emotions as you can imagine.

Forgiveness doesn't come with time, Irish. It takes time to forgive. There's a big difference. And forgiveness doesn't mean forgetness, it means to forgive, as in restitution for wrongs.

You'll be surprised how the girls handle it over the years. She is still their mom and eventually they will want to at least visit. That's likely years off as you can imagine. But they will find a way when/if they are ready.

The changes you see in you right now? For me it was like a cork that had been held under water. At first I shot through to other activities. I was busy as a madman. I don't feel as busy now but I am told I'm an active person. I just don't feel as driven. I have not since felt the depression and lethargy of when ex was on site.

Time to get ready for the new year celebrations. Got big plans?


AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 564
1
Member
Offline
Member
1
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 564
Irish M - You've had some great advice. I read these folks all the time because they have taken the high road and have been on the road longer. Both a blessing and a burden.

My D's did not text or call their father on Christmas. H did not text or call them either. As a parent and adult I would ALWAYS reach out on Christmas. H sent the card and gift cards last week but D's wanted their Dad. Within 18 months he has destroyed his relationship with his children. I have remained neutral but they are old enough to handle logistics on their own. H has not asked to see them and now lives 3000 miles away. If he ever has a relationship with them it will probably be in the distant future.

H's present actions are making it easier for me to detach and focus on other things. I also dream of the man I married. This man would be adamant I stay away from present day H. I know this down deep in my soul. He would tell me to take care of the girls and let him go. He was smart and kind and he did exist.

Hang in there. You are a good Dad and you are working through some tough stuff.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
― Maya Angelou



Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Thanks for the replies and support .
MLeigh, I too am following you. Always appreciate your encouragement.
You are an amazing parent as well. We regret nothing :-)

Peace, I think they can come back better than before if they are strong enough and want it. Love is powerful and I believe in her. Those 2 things alone are a winning chance. With that said I'd probably have more of a chance winning the lotorie.

AJ
Love reading what you have to say. Your input is so valuable. I read your comments on many of the stories here. God bless you.
New Years eve . Party at my place. More for the D's and their friends.
I'm going out with a friend the night before and I have something planned for Saturday. Hope you have plans :-)


Last edited by Irish M; 12/28/15 08:59 PM.

M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
UPDATE

As you know I felt bad about the D's exploding on the phone with W the other day.

I emailed her ( I know I know) . I just apologized for the way the girls acted on the phone and the things they said. We didn't raise our girls to treat us or anyone else this way. They needed to vent.

I never expected a reply. I did it for me to feel good. My D's are hurting, they needed it. I also was worried W would be pushed back further.

I got a reply today. A heart felt reply.
She said.
I understand they are angry for what I did. I live with this choice everyday. I hope one day they can forgive me.
I'm sorry for breaking up the family and the couple. I really lost a lot with my choice it's all my fault. I lost more than I ever thought.
She finishes by saying have a happy new year to me and the girls.
Also says she misses my parents a lot too. ( she was closer to my parents than her own, first time she brings them up)

Question I have. What do I do? Leave it as is.
I am not taking it as a crack in her happiness. She recently changed her status to in a relationship with OM on the 21st, right after the girls gave it to her on the phone. Before that there was no mention of OM on FB. So I don't think she is really hurting from the loss of her family. Her choice is still to stay there.

Do I write back ... Or just leave it?


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't respond back. She needs time to reflect on what she's done and has written.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
I agree with Job. She had a moment of clarity, that she shared with you. From what I have seen from other posts, that comes and goes before it actually sticks! Let her keep processing it all in her own space.

Respond here instead if you want. What would you say back?


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 574
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 574
Personally I would not reply. She did not ask any questions, it was more a statement of her thoughts.

"I live with this choice everyday" I have heard that from my h many times over. He tells me it was about the guilt for the pain he has caused me and our s's, not regret from the decision he made. Be careful not to read anything into what she writes to you (a trap I fell in to), it tends to be ramblings from the thoughts that are currently whirring around their head while they try to make sense of it, it will change as she processes, sometimes good stuff and sometimes not so nice, its all part of the process and you are her "safe" person to let it out to.

As for hurting from the loss of her family - yep she most probably is, just not admitting it to herself yet, om is being used as avoidance of facing it, it will catch up with her.

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
I would take the advice offered here: try not to read into it; try to stay as detached as possible.

That said, here I am reading into it: people often post things on FB to make it seem like their life is something it is not. No way to know if that is true for your wife; one thing for sure: she's gotta go through the MLC easybake oven before she will be fit for civilized society again. If you looked at my FB page, you wouldn't be able to tell something is up with me and H. H still has me listed as his wife. I check just about daily to see if he's changed it. Who knows what goes through the minds of these folks?

Hang in there ! We are all here for you xoxoxo

Last edited by bttrfly; 12/28/15 11:14 PM.

M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 181
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 181
Irish,

Your daughter's are protecting themselves, standing up for what they believe. You may think it harsh from their end but put yourself in their shoes. They feel they have lost a mother and at this moment in time not a very good one.

Your job is them. If you think their is something teachable then by all means. Learning tools in dealing with people, family or otherwise is a great thing.

I think you need to ask yourself why you reached out to her....I mean really. You get an answer back.....but who knows when dealing with MLC, what is real and what is not.

This is her journey. She needs to feel the sting of her choices and decide what type of person she wants to be. So far I think we all know where that is right now.

Time to go quiet.

Mirage

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
5 on 5 vote to no contact. I won't argue with that.
Love all the feedback. Each one I read twice and it's like you all complimented each other's point of view. Message from you all is loud and clear.

I agree also. She still needs to go through so much still.

I'll continue loving my D's and focusing on me and them.

This was probably a bad day for her, a small pocket of clarity in her mind.Who knows.

Cheers everyone


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
Hi Mirage

I reread your comment this morning.

Yes my D's have to deal with this their way.
I let them and I know inneed to not dwell on it too much. it does break my heart so very much.

As for your question on why I reached out to her. That's the old Irish shinning through. Fixing relationship and disputes. I always am the center for a lot of people. I manage 3 offices and deal with different types of people and issues on a daily basis. It's my talent and gift.

I want to so fix my D's and their mom. I know I cant. I Just had a sliver of weakness during the holiday season.

Today, I'm back up where i need to be. Outside this morning with my girls, we had a huge snow storm last night so we decided to have an awesome snow fight. I had a ski mask on and became ninja dad. D's laughed so hard. Well needed.

Thanks again to you all for the added strength you give me. I hope to one day to repay this support to some of you and newbies that find this site.

God bless


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
Irish

Glad you are feeling better and you had fun with the girls

I know my kids and I have bonded more over the years
we have a strong connection and maybe its part of being a single parent family

maybe they grow up different , maybe with more compassion, as they let go of their MLCer parent
I think they are special kids


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
A
AJM Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
Quote:
It's my talent and gift
And sometimes curse? wink

We all have those moments of backsliding/weakness. We're human, Irish. But as you detach and watch, be mindful of your D's feelings more than your W's. Your W needs to take care of her own. She has a lot to learn and there's only one school that can properly teach her - the school of hard knocks. If you short circuit that, things won't be fixable nor good. She must learn to deal with things on her own. No way around that.

What you can do is help your D's. You can help yourself. For the latter, you should become your own best friend. And every time you think to do such a thing, ask yourself what you would tell your best friend if you were asked.

And act on that advice. Take those feelings out of it and listen to your good judgement. The rest will take care of itself. Just note that the feelings will come and go for a while. They do that.

And try not to read into the message. I'm sure it won't be long before the other shoe drops, so to speak as she struggles with her choices.

For what it's worth, I saw similar. I eventually referred to it as "postcards from the other side". It was eerie. I can tell you that my ex missed her family. How do I know? She almost immediately re-married and tried to create that same family with the new H (OM). Burdening the kids with all kinds of things that I won't even go into. Suffice to say, she tried for years to hurt and manipulate etc. Eventually her H joined in (overtly?). All the while, ex communicated as if somebody else. I didn't even recognize the writing style. Years later, she was able to construct full sentences again and sounded more like a person.

My point is that what you see in a point in time is just that. A point in time. Sometimes a glimpse and sometimes a monster. It's part of the process, Irish. They must hit bottom to be able to finish the trip. Did mine? Doubtful, but I stopped watching that train wreck, so I don't really know. I just know that I wouldn't trade places. As for the kids? They're mostly fine. I made sure to shield them as much as I could. They're adults now and have a relationship of sorts with their mother. That's for them to work out though. If I were to get involved, it would muddy the waters and make things unauthentic. Know what I mean?

Guide your D's, but stay out of it otherwise as much as you can. The old W is no longer. Not at this time at least. Even if she shows a glimpse here and there of what she was like. Those are more or less ghost images while the new her is baking (whatever that turns out to be.)

Give your D's and yourself the gift of distance this Christmas. Be your best friend. And be the father the D's deserve to have. If you can do those things, you'll be more than ok. Without a doubt.

AJ

P.S. What's life like later? I was helping a friend propose to his GF after he went through similar years ago. While I was doing that, the other guy (went through similar with his wife years ago and is friends with my ex and her H)I was working with was on the phone helping a friend that is going through what you are going through. Life is a strange thing, no? smile


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 564
1
Member
Offline
Member
1
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 564
You are getting some great perspective Irish. As a woman I was always raised to be polite and be selfless. These are wonderful virtues but I see now how those same qualities may not have served me well in my own life. Allowing your D's to have their own voice is very empowering and respectful. Your W's actions are not acceptable to them and they have a right to feel what they feel.

You are doing a great job and as long as your actions are motivated by maturity, compassion and respect then you are on the right path. If your daughters can truly see that is how you are navigating this situation then they will respect you and love you.

My D's do not want contact with their father right now. I am proud they are able to understand that they deserve to be treated with respect. I respect their choice to go no contact. The man I married would be proud as well.

That being said I have told my girls that love and redemption come in many forms. Sometimes it takes years to connect again and sometimes the connection never happens. Even if we are disappointed in their actions and need to detach - we can still love them. I told my D's I have their back and support whatever choices they make re: a relationship with their Dad.

I also explained that this was my position for the rest of their lives. If 10 years from now my D's suddenly wanted to invite us both to Christmas dinner then I'd be okay. I would handle it because my love and respect for them is unconditional. I have encouraged them to advocate for themselves but to try not to bolt the door to the future.

Of course having H so far away makes it easier. My heart breaks for your girls knowing W is close by yet emotionally disjointed. I am glad you are committed to helping them emotionally and being that stable force. You are giving them the tools to thrive Irish. Stay strong.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
― Maya Angelou



Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,202
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,202
Irish, I’ve been following you threads for some time. You have a great support group and great posts.

I can’t even imagine what it’s like to have two teenage girls who have been very hurt by their Mom’s actions and abandonment. I can’t also imagine a mother would do this to her children.

You are lucky that you have your extended family and it was always a part of the tradition, so you and your D’s don’t have to change anything.

Irish, you are doing a great job, being strong for your girls. I don’t remember if you mentioned of some kind of therapy for the girls. It might be very helpful if they can also talk to somebody who is neutral and not a family. Hang in there.


M:50
H:52
S28 (my S from previous marriage)
M:17 + 3
BD: 06/12
S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
Irish,
It's time to start a new thread.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
I
Irish M Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 726
new thread.
Thanks Job for keeping score.
never thought i'd be this far into threads.

new thread 2016

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2637151&#Post2637151


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard