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Hi KML - no he doesn't have OCD issues like those.

As for surgeries, I am not interested! It's just not my thing. And certainly not for a man who, these days, has the attention span of a gnat. I can just see it now! I go change everything about myself for him and the second I walk in covered in all my bandages H announces: what have you done? I liked he way you looked! Lol!

KML - Interesting that you advise that I tell him sexual attraction can wax and wane in M. It did not occur to me to do that. Hmmm.

Months ago I told him a few things I experienced in my depression. He related and seemed relieved (even though neither one of us even hinted that he is depressed). One of the things I have thought of telling him is that in my depression I was disgusted by him. I bristled when he hugged me and slept with half of me hanging off the bed - MLC style!!!

I hesitate to tell him this because I don't want to pressure him that I expect he will come out of all of this wanting an R. Maybe that's too much pressure? Or maybe it would reassure him?

There is some forward movement--but ever so slow. A year ago H was reciting the MLC soliloquy-- saying he never loved me! Then he remembered why he married me. So weird how that happened. One day out of the clear blue he announces: I remember why I married you! (It took a lot of restraint not to say: yes, that might be why you look happy in every photo at our wedding!!)


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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HW, in every relationship there is a sense of what you will or won't accept. MLC or not. I don't know what was in the letter, but it seems to me that he says mean things and then tries to make up for it. Kind of like job mentions: like a two year old.

That doesn't mean you cannot or should not protect yourself and just take it. I can tell you that I stopped taking the abuse about three months after BD. Why? Because I needed to for me. I wasn't angry and I didn't sink to the level of abuse. I decided the boundaries and firmly stuck to them.

Did it make her stop? No. Did it cause her to change her approach? Absolutely. But I will say I chose carefully. I was willing to die on that hill, so to speak. There were few boundaries, but I stuck to them completely. Not angrily, but no give either.

I will caution you that if you pick a boundary, do so with eyes wide open. Dealing with MLC is not a recipe, but rather your life. And not your life in the moment, but overall. You can't predict how he will react to your actions (you may have noticed, right?) What you can do is set and defend your boundaries. Just know that they need to be important and not made in the moment. The boundary is the boundary and that's all there is to it. And it's for you, not him.

Does that make sense?

Relationships are not one-sided. They take two and you've already pretzled yourself once. You know that won't work. But neither will going nuclear else you wouldn't be here. Your side of the relationship is what you control. You are what you control. His reactions and his actions are his to own. Always.

I think you're doing fine, and know you can't rush it. But if you sell yourself out, there won't be anything left for either of you.


Peace,
AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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As the other posters have pointed out, you will need to determine what you will accept and what you won't and then set your boundaries. When you set your boundaries, you will need to adhere to them and not waffle. If you waffle, then your h will know that you really didn't mean it and test those boundaries over and over again, just like a two year old will.

When setting your boundaries, you will need to remain calm and look him in the eyes. Letter writing will get you nowhere right now because of his attention span...they can't focus on more than a couple of lines of print. Keep in mind that actions speak louder than words and if you follow thru on your boundaries, he may or may not get the message.

One of the things that I suggest to you is that when he starts trashing you, that you walk away. You could say something like "h, when you calm down, I'll be happy to discuss the matter w/you", then walk away or hang up the phone. These are lessons that you have to figure out when to use.

No one deserves to be trashed constantly and certainly not over the way you look. No one is perfect and he married you for who you are, not your looks (I would think).

Set your boundaries, don't get into heated discussions w/him. The sooner you put the fire out by shutting him down w/walking away or ending the heated conversations, the better for you. You will need to develop a thicker skin as your man/child continues to try to push your buttons along the way and tests any and all boundaries that you may set, i.e., like a two year old or even a teenager.


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Gears are clicking into place for me.

Last two posts from AJ and Job really opened my eyes. Why don't I know what my personal boundaries are? Uh-oh. How can I be 40 and need advice on what boundaries I will accept. How pathetic is that! I need to do that internal work.

As for the letter why do I have so much shame and anger over that letter? HB writes: anger brings forth clarity, allowing one to see. I start to dig about my anger over that letter. And so much is revealed to me about myself, about what I will not accept in my R. It becomes so obvious what my boundary with him needs to be.

I set the boundary last night. I was very calm and felt so peaceful setting it. I was scared to do it at first because I was so afraid he would walk out on me. I am still in fear!

When H gave me that letter I felt such shame and I tried to bury it. But it was there. I pretended I was ok with it to him. I was pretzeling myself again to make him happy instead of doing the work to fix me.

Anyway--back to setting the boundary. H never once looked me in the eyes. I told him I was releasing that letter back to him. I mentioned several of the things about my body that he told me I had to change to make us work. He winced and asked me to stop talking about those things. I calmly told him that if he felt secure writing those things to me, we should be able to discuss them. He monsters a bit and tried to grab the steering wheel. I stayed the course and he says he agrees to the boundary: he is not allowed to tell me what is wrong with my body. It is my body. I tell him that what is important is that I accept my body not that he accepts it.

Later that night he texts me- I missed it as I went to sleep so peacefully last night. I can speak my truth because I already lost my M! To what am I clinging? I can set my boundary for me. He either adjusts course as he processes through MLC or he leaves me. If he leaves I have lost nothing because old marriage is dead and I am not going to have a new M where my H tells me how I need to change my body to make things work! That's just not me!

Ok - back to his text. He tells me I bait and switched him by pretending I was ok w/that letter and with making those physical changes.

I validate. I tell him my first reaction is to please others rather than being true to myself. I apologize for being dishonest with him. I tell him that I want to be accepted for being me and that I am done pretzeling myself. I also divulge that I think deep down he always found me beautiful and smart but not really his body type. And that he pretzeled himself, too. This is why that letter REALLY bothered me. I have felt that tension in our M. He has critiqued me all along. (Shout out to KML for asking the question). I have felt the insecurity all along. I lied to myself about it. You guys probably all think I am a troll by the sounds of it all. But actually people tell me all the time I look like Anne Hathaway. But see, he wants Raquel Welch (when she was young!). And I can't be Raquel Welch without destroying my core completely! Now I have finally released that to him!

Here is what I say: my body will change. Women bear children, they age and their H's still revere them and their bodies. I accept that I will age and that I want to look good but age true to myself (I think, but don't say: Anne Hathaway not Raquel Welch). But I think deep down I was never your body type. There was a connection between us but you wanted a different body. Also, you wanted a less brainy woman. (I called him out on that, too.) In the letter he says he wishes I were less intelligent and more sexy (Raquel Welch). The "problem" is I am very well educated--having studied at one of the best colleges in the world. I am proud of that. I worked very hard, out of poverty to get there. I put myself through school! It's so much a part of who I am! No pretzeling on that!!!

He texts back and seems to think I am picking a fight with him. Poor H. He is so behind me on the internal work. All the knowledge that has come from doing this internal work on setting this boundary makes me like a person from the future while, internal work-wise, he is still like an amoeba!

I tell him I am not trying to fight with him but just to tell him my truth. That I am done feeling bad for not being his dream body type. That I finally accept me and I don't care what he thinks!

He texts that he is done discussing this "nonsense" with me. That we can discuss the kids only--only surface conversations from now on.

He is going NC on me! Too funny!

Wow- so much released in setting that boundary and it is true to me. Job - I saw a true glimpse of letting go! I proudly can die on that hill AJ!!!

And if he leaves I get that I have lost nothing but gained myself and the chance to meet/bond with someone who wants me as I am.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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HaWho,

He actually gave you a letter that said he wanted you to be less intelligent and more 'sexy'?!?!?!

I have to tell you-- I am a DBer through and through. I have a dream of working with MWD one day and helping others improve their relationships. I want to shout from the rooftops all I've learned so that no one else needs to go through what I've gone through.

But my reaction when I read about what your H said to you about your body (putting conditions about your appearance on your relationship? Accusing you of bait and switch?!) was simply, EW. I don't know what else to say.

You sound like a real catch-- and I hope that you will begin to see your own value and strength. His empathy chip seems totally broken.

Hang in there.


Me 38 H 40
D 3
T 8 M 6
BD 10/2013

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Well done! Now, leave it alone since you've stated what was on your mind, i.e., that letter. Now it's time to go a bit dim and only discuss the kids for now.

Now that your boundaries are set...stick to them and no waffling.

His fantasy woman is either a blow up dolly or a Barbie Doll and let's face it...no one is perfect and no one need to go under the knife to make themselves perfect for someone else. Happiness comes from within and it's what is inside you that counts...looks are just the gift wrap on a wonderful person. As the saying goes...beauty is only skin deep or you can't judge a book by its cover.

Shame on him! He doesn't realize what a wonderful person you are. It's his loss if he can't see you for who you are.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi Claire7- it was so very ew.

Job- I have such peace. I am sure I will cycle but right now I feel like I am looking at the earth from outer space. I see how weak I became.

Just went through my emails and after I set boundary w/H and after he texted me while I was asleep, he also wrote me a poem.

It is dark and depressed. Talks about the optimism of youth. How he tried to do what's right his whole life. But maybe youth was all folly. Talks about just getting through life--not too happy, not too sad, not feeling too much or being too numb. He ends by saying optimism of his youth may have its say.

Poor guy is spinning. I always was slow to that a-ha moment! I put up with a whole lot for a long time but when I do finally get my a-ha moment I REALLY get it. And I get what I have done to myself.

I acknowledged receipt and told him it was very good as it was.

But Job - going dim is easy now. I get why. As, what it is there to say? I am not even mad at him. I allowed it!!!

Job- I can't thank you enough for pushing me to keep focusing on me! You are amazing!! The true proof of the craziness of MLC, is that some MLCer out there let you slip through his fingers!!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
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HW, I'm glad you set the boundary are at peace with it. That's a great first step.

It's not unnatural for partners to think the world of one another and yet want "something." That goes back to the part about us not being perfect. We're just not.

It's also natural for both partners to want to please one another. It's part of the relationship and part of what drives us to change. The danger is that we change beyond who we are to please. That's out of balance and as the old joke goes, once we've changed so much our partner looks at us and says, "you're not the person I married." smile

Growing together and separately but remaining true to yourself is a tough balance at times. That's because we're all broken in some way or form. It is what it is.

I think you have a good perspective on where everything stands - damned if you do and damned if you don't. You tried the other way and can look at that and say that was too far that direction. For YOU.

Job is right. Let it sit. You said what you were going to do and what you were going to accept. You'll be challenged, but no need to continue to reiterate. Silence will speak louder than words.

In the same way, silence speaks much louder about a lot of things. It's nice that he feels he can share the darkness he feels. That's really important for you both. But it also comes with some risk that he'll spew during that as his only way of connecting and releasing that anger. Job is right that you need to learn to thicken your skin and learn to remain calm and to walk away when he tries that. He needs to learn to deal with it on his own and that it is not appropriate to take it out on you.

We teach people how to treat us. Self-awareness helps us to do that consistently.

There is much for you to come to terms with about yourself. You're worth learning about and being at peace with yourself. While that is going on, thickening your skin and realizing he is trying to figure himself out externally through you, will help you to know when to set and enforce boundaries and when to shut the conversation down completely until cooler heads prevail.

The latter is a very important tool to add to your bag. There are times I wished I had learned that at an earlier age myself. There are so many areas of life where that is appropriate and useful when it comes to interacting with others of both genders. In the immediate sense, that will be your next tool in the box that you are building and learning to expertly use.

You'll be glad you learned that one.


AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Quote:
But actually people tell me all the time I look like Anne Hathaway. But see, he wants Raquel Welch


Lol - and I was Raquel Welch, and my ex wanted an athletic version of Anne Hathaway!

(Fortunately for me, my current boyfriend is African-American, and as far as he's concerned, my curves are PERFECT!).

My ex also had a chip on his shoulder about me being smarter than him - even though we were both equally well educated and successful in the same field! I never thought of myself as smarter than him - we just have different skill sets. (He's now married to a much younger woman, not a dummy, but comes off very girlish. Pretty sure he doesn't have the same level of intellectual conversation with her that he had with me, but maybe he likes it that way.)

My current boyfriend actually is less intellectual in a formal sense, but much more confident in his strengths (emotional IQ, he's an empath for real) and totally comfortable in his own skin, so he's not threatened by me.

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Quote:
In the letter he says he wishes I were less intelligent and more sexy


Lol - proper response to this is "Oh, so I see you really don't want an EQUAL partner". Only confident men want equal partners.

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