HaWho, My stbx is also someone who makes sarcastic mean comments. (Just like my dad). I've realized now that being sensitive about it fueled his contempt for me. He saw me as weak and needy. On the other hand, there are plenty of men who do not speak to their spouses with disrespect and contempt. And I think that if I had had more self-esteem when I met him, I never would have married someone who spoke to me that way. I kept wanting him to change... but I realize now it's about him and his own insecurity and self-hatred. I mean, would a healthy secure person speak to a spouse with such contempt?
I don't know if this resembles your sitch at all, but just wanted to give you my perspective on the "mean H/sensitive W" dynamic that I experienced. I don't miss that part of my M at all.
Mlcers can be down right mean and insensitive at times. Their empathy chip is broken. Many times what they are thinking just pops out of their mouths.
He's lashing out and quite frankly they all project on to us many times over. They say means things to make us back up and leave them alone. If he's sleeping in the basement, don't go down there and wish him a good night. Leave the man/child to his cave and allow him to sulk. He's acting out just like a two year old who is teething.
You will see a lot of this "mean" behavior throughout the crisis and you will need to develop a thick skin. The best thing to do is detach a bit more. When he's being mean, walk away. You do not need to stand/sit there and take that BS. You had children and your body did change a bit in order to carry and deliver them. You don't own him any explanation for the way your body has changed. Be proud of what you've accomplished and the children that you brought into the world.
Your h is a broken man and he's just mad at himself, you, the relationship and the world right now. He would be made at the goose who laid golden eggs too. So, leave that cry baby downstairs and leave your life to the fullest. When he sees that he can't bait you into an argument or rattle your cage, he very well may stop the nonsense...but I will caution you on this...if he can't provoke you into an argument being mean, he very well may try to be nice and then slam dunk you. So, keep your cool, keep your voice calm and when he starts in on you, walk away.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
No you didn't cause him to run back into the tunnel. He never let it. He may have moments of clarity, but he's still in the mlc tunnel.
He's PA and to punish you, he's back in the basement. Leave him to sulk down there and don't worry about it. When he sees that you aren't going to bend over backwards to placate him, he'll come back upstairs and pretend everything is A-Okay.
At some point, a conversation will need to take place about his comments, but he's not in a place that you can do that right now. But, you will know when the door has opened to have that discussion.
For now, leave him to sulk and you keep the focus on you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Job and Georgiabelle- months ago you two told me when H came to me to work on the R, that he just wanted me to fix him. I realize you gals were spot on. That letter was a lot of nasty stuff about stuff I should be doing to make "us" work. Then he asked what I needed from him (wanted me to fix him).
Now here is the latest via text (the gist):
H: I know you have been working hard on R. I know it seems like I haven't been, but I have. But romantic feelings do not feel as natural or "right" as friend relations do. I like us as deep and close friends, co-parenting under the same roof. Romantic relations are labored for me. You are beautiful/smart and I want to stay together in the same house, even same bedroom/bed. I want to keep our family together. I want us to be happy. I have tried. Can we stay together without anything physical? You have said you don't want another man so you won't be missing anything by keeping us together. I feel guilt because my feelings aren't right for you on that account. It is sister/best friend love. Can we discuss it tonight.
I don't answer for a few hours.
Then this: H: Just so you know your happiness is important to me. We have spent our whole adult lives together. I hope to continue that.
Me: Thank you for communicating with me. I appreciate it. I need some time to process. Have a nice afternoon!
One minute later: H: Ok. I am really sorry for upsetting you. I so don't want to.
2 minutes later: (must be spinning): H: And I do still find you beautiful.
2 minutes later: H: There are moments where it all comes flooding back. But it doesn't last and the friend thing returns.
Then 6 minutes later: H: Do you want me to pick up son x?
Me: No thanks!
H: Want me to pick up son y?
Me: No, but thanks!
(He feels guilty and is bending over backwards.)
So, 1 year post BD and it seems he is pretty close to where he started as far as his unhappiness. He has tried all sorts of fixes-replay: running around with friends, staying out of the house, trips away, working a lot, etc. Then I received letter of all I should do to help "make us a success." And he asked what he should do on his end. Months later - says he has tried those things and nothing feels right romantically.
Seems like this should be a point where he turns inward to try to figure out what is wrong.
As for me, I need to detach more. I think this may have been a lonnnng touch-n-go.
Wow-is he broken. My favorite part is where he tells me I won't be missing out on anything in this arrangement!
I can't even begin to think about bedroom situation! I know in my D I was repulsed by H and clung to the edge of the bed. He slept by my side through it all--3 years worth.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
HW, do you see what was said there? That he has a deep personal connection, but the romantic feelings are coming and going? That's important and it's a look into his state of mind. It's also important for you to see and process as to where he is right now.
Note what job said about a MLCr and their anger and their processing. He gave you a nugget there. He mentioned he is working on HIM. It's all a point in time.
As for the way you reacted. No, you did nothing wrong. In fact, I would suggest you were honest and that was a good thing. You were honest without being unavailable afterwards. That's even more important.
He's baking, HW but not done.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Hi AJ - Thank you for the great insight. I did get the sense that in that moment he knew I was not the source of all the problems he is facing. Poor guy is re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
The question is: do I actually say anything about all this? I told him I need time to process. Sometimes he just forgets the details of what he said anyway. Job says he'll just come back to the bedroom like nothing happened once he licks his wounds.
Do I just continue to act as if without categorically saying: yes let's continue on the friendship track? I don't want to add pressure to him w/another conversation but I do want him to know I am still here.
I don't feel for me that I need another conversation about this right now. I can see that he is still baking.
Any advice is welcome, as always!
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
You don't have to tell him that you are still there...he knows it. Continue just as you have been doing, i.e., giving him space and time to figure things out. You can be a friend, but don't put pressure on him. If he wants to talk, listen and if he asks for advice, be honest w/him.
You will get an opportunity to have the discussion about his comments from the other night...but not right now. He's not in a good frame of mind to do so.
As for him working on the marriage, I don't see it. They tend to say that they are working on the marriage and yet, they are doing something different. He definitely needs time to work on himself w/o your assistance.
Just leave him be to rearrange the chairs on the Titanic. He is still baking and as long as you are front and center in his attention span, he can't work on himself. Step back a bit, detach and continue on w/your life for now. If he wants to be a part of it, he will make the effort to join in.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Ok- had a talk with my DB coach. As I have mentioned a lot, that letter H sent me was nasty. Job - I hear you that MLCers are mean. Here is the problem I am facing now:
I read the letter to my DB coach/family counselor. She was speechless. She was completely at a loss for words. Again, I know her specialty is not MLC but she has worked couples through it obviously. Job - you have seen and heard so much maybe this would not phase you. Maybe you will tell me I need thicker skin.
She told me the letter was verbally and emotionally violent. Her recommendation is that I need to draw a personal boundary for me. She recommends I write a letter back stating my boundary--that it was wrong what he said to me and I will not share a room with him.
She recognizes that he is in crisis and said brain scans show changes on the brain. But she said wrong is still wrong. Her feeling is to set the boundary and see if he apologizes or reacts in a way that shows remorse. (But as his wiring is so off I am not sure this is a realistic expectation.) Her concern is that this message is so sick that it reveals a darkness to the messenger's mind. Even if it is the MLC talking I do not want to share a bed with him at this time. I need space from him.
She said this is not anything she has ever heard in the MLC scripts.
Maybe this too is above her paygrade and this is "normal" for MLC I don't want to share a room with a man who views me as a sister and writes me a letter dissecting my body and telling me all the superficial, horrific things I should be doing to "fix" my body to ensure our marriage has a chance of success.
The problems are in him. I really get that now. It has nothing to do with the stretching my body took in labor.
Maybe he will come out of this. Maybe he won't. I will continue to be kind and act "as if" and listen but I need to put some walls around me.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Please read my last post. My concern with counselor's advice is that he is just lost. It is hard to draw a line between monster spew and verbal abuse. Isn't it all verbal abuse, after all?
After writing the horrific letter he has come back and said I am beautiful so clearly he is just so confused. I just don't believe from living with him day in and day out there is a way to see if he is remorseful. Would it even be meaningful as everything is transient for him.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Let me ask you this - does your husband have any OCD symptoms? Tapping checking counting phobias, body dysmorphic disorder?
I ask because my ex had some mild OCD. And while most of it was directed at himself, I got my share of it too. My thighs were too thick (even when I was 5'6" 121 lbs in my 20's! My ribs were sticking out!). I was too X, Y or Z, or not enough A, B or C.
The reality was, I was (and am) a pretty attractive woman who has always gotten my fair share of male approval. It's my ex who has issues with OCD and perfectionism.
I would definitely draw a line at having any kind of plastic surgery to pacify your H. I would also make it clear to him that sexual attraction can wax and wane in a marriage, and that if he is patient it will likely return. (BTW, pretty sure it would return in a hurry if you were dating some other guy! Not recommending it as a strategy, just pointing out that you suddenly become a lot more attractive once they see OTHER men interested in you!)
The real problem is, in his depression and crisis, he's looking for SOMEthing, ANYthing to make him feel better. He's tried a lot of other things already, now he thinks that if he changed you that would do it. It won't. He has to become happy with HIMSELF first.
Definitely don't tolerate any inappropriate speech (seems like he already realizes he crossed a line). Also let him know you don't intend to spend your life in an asexual loveless marriage forever.
