Feet on the ground, head in the sky

[mleigh4]

Sorry Hawho, I never got back to you with that book name. It's called Living with the Passive Aggresive Man.

I too believe the fear of looming death plays a big part. My SIL almost died from Sepsis several months before Bday. My H, in typical fashion, was very low key and detached about it, but I think it effected him much more than I realised.

Were there any deaths or illnesses near your H Bday?

[job]

To clarify the term I used "guilt". Guilt and shame come calling when it's bed time, when the house is quiet and there is nothing to distract them. It is guilt and shame for what they are doing now, not the past. It is guilt for what they have said to you, family and co-workers, because deep down, they do know that something is wrong.

They also have the fear of death. They fear that if they go to sleep, they may not wake up to see the sun come up the next day.

Keep in mind, while in MLC, the "wires" in their brains are scrambled and their thought processes are running a mile a minute, bouncing from one subject to the next. Think about it, when you have something on your mind that's pressing, do you think about it whey you are trying to go to sleep? It's the same thing for them...but more intense because they have absolutely nothing to distract them from the things that they are avoiding/running from.

[HaWho]

It's been a bit since I posted. Things are slow going and yet not.

I am staying quiet over here and learning/seeing a lot. Distance has shown me that I have become too emotional/reactive in my life. I never used to be this way. I am working very hard at changing this about myself. I feel better and more confident. I also continue to have increased energy/alertness from coming out of my own depression.

H had a very quiet weekend. He put on comfy clothes and said he was going to relax. He looks horrible: run down and haggard. He kept saying he was not sure why he felt so unwell. (Might have something to do with the fact that he lives every moment like the Grim Reaper is after him.)

Days after I realized H has always been afraid of dying, he re-told a very telling chdhood story. I had heard it before but this time it revealed so much because I was hearing it knowing he is in MLC.

When he was around 3-4 years old he became very sick. He kept telling his mother that something was wrong and he needed to go to a doctor. His mother disregarded him and did not bring him. He continued to get sicker. One day a friend of his mother's was over and she said something was wrong and he needed a doctor. MIL again disregarded. Friend came over again and this time she would not leave until H was brought to a Dr.

He was admitted for quite some time and he was in fact gravely ill. He knew he was dying and though visitors came and went, he remembers being alone much of it.

How awful, all around: that he was not listened to, that he was left alone a lot, etc. I am guessing this is a place where he was stunted and for sure, this must be where his obsessive fear of dying was born. He remembers he never felt close to his mother again.

One of my son's has a rash and I took him to the doctor weeks ago. Dr. advised give it time and use x cream. Last week H decided rash was no better and made appt. w/dermatologist. Used same words mother's friend used about his grave childhood illness : something is wrong, this has gone on long enough, he needs to see a doctor.

This is the first time my H has ever initiated taking kid to doctor's appt. When he returned he seemed very surprised that specialist gave same advice as other doctor. He seemed to believe it was something serious. I have seen so many rashes come and go (including scarlet fever in one of my son's!) that I knew this was a run of the mill rash. Days later he re-told story of how he nearly died.

[AJM]

Hi HW. Glad to see you posting.

Sounds like the listening and detachment is really helpful to you. Sounds also like you are coming out of the initial shock and depression. I'm very happy to hear that.

AJ

[mleigh4]

What a sad story about your H, breaks my heart. I hope talking about it helps him. Has he ever had IC?

[HaWho]

Thanks AJM. I think I have been quiet because I am rounding the corner to my 1 year BD anniversary. I cannot believe it. Mostly I cannot believe I survived all that.

Mleigh-no sadly he has never had IC. I do listen but a lot of these issues are way above my pay grade. I have of course recommended that he talk to someone but he insists he does not need help.

[AJM]

Yeah, it's hard to believe. And yeah, it's above your paygrade but not. Listening is the single most valuable skill I've seen on these boards. You, as much as anyone here, know how important being heard is to a person.

But it would be great if he would eventually see this as, "yeah, I'm sick. I need a doctor." Just be careful what you wish for. He may get help from one or he may get worse. In the end, he needs to do this. Your choice is whether or not you are still there and whether or not you still listen.

AJ

[HaWho]

Uh-oh.

Yesterday H and I were texting. Everything was fine. He asked me to grab something from the store on my way home. I said sure. He asked when I would be home and I made a joke telling him that the person we gave life to needed to be picked up. He jabbed back that my body did a hell of a job that day.

It struck a nerve with me. As I have mentioned H said some very cruel things about physical differences pre vs. post children. Many of them were quite crass. Very, very painful stuff. I am still fit, thin, etc. But, yes, changes take place when you birth children. Enough said on that. Just trying to give you a sense of the level of conversation I am discussing here.

I said if I had known what he would have said about it all/knowing what I know now I would have hired a surrogate and outsourced all that. H needed clarification on what I was talking about. I clarified to jog his memory. He said he thought I was ok with comments. I said, I am sure you did think that. (Because at the time I just listened and accepted what he said and brushed it all under the rug as best I could. I was quite shocked by it all.)

Then he wrote he is sorry he wrote it. But he became distant all over again. I acted as if. He slept downstairs last night, back to door closed.

Today I again acted as if. Gave him space. He cracked a joke in the afternoon but is definitely distant. Sleeping downstairs again tonight.

I went down to say goodnight. I asked if he wanted to talk about things. He said if so, not tonight. I said: so you're back to being down here. He said he is not sure. I said I didn't think this situation needed to be more than it was. He said maybe.

I really wish I had been able to zip it and shelve this conversation. It feels like all my patience of these last few months was just wiped away in a flash.

For a moment there I forgot who/what I was dealing with. This is so hard. I think I have scared him back further into the tunnel. Of course if this sent him back there then clearly he has things to work out there. If he were stronger then he would be able to face this without running and hiding, right?

Advice?

Job - did I directly cause this?

[Sotto]

Hi HaWho, I took what he said as a compliment! That he thought your body did a great job producing such a fabulous person that day. I can see the history that you post may have made you sensitive to comments about your body linked to childbirth, but I didn't see that as a negative comment from him.

I'm sorry if the turn of events has led to him being back downstairs. I'm not sure what the best approach is and will leave someone more experienced to comment on that. I think you would need to talk at some point about his crass comments and their impact on you. I also brushed some things under the rug and at some point that rug needs to be flipped over and that dust vacuumed up. However, he may not be at a point where you guys can air things like that productively.

I'm sending hugs and best wishes to you though....this too shall pass. It is never all plain sailing - there are always a few rocks underwater.

Take care xx

[HaWho]

Hi Sotto- maybe I misread the comment.

It is all now such an uncomfortable topic for me. I also know that MLcers go through that phase where they are disgusted by their spouses. Maybe that had a part in his crass comments.

I think I am allowed to feel the pain though. There is an element of truth to it all. I think I hoped having kids would bond us closer to each other not warrant disparaging comments about unavoidable effects of labor.

I just feel like this is so superficial. But, this was not the time to bring it up...