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Thank you, UR. Always so helpful!

It is so hard to know...I feel I am super-sensitive in this area and wanted to put this situation out there to gauge whether I am overreacting or not.

I actually said to H "you live in a different world than me". Its almost that "last straw" feeling. Not like I am ready to leave but tired of making allowances for his behavior.

Most of the time things are good. But I know the boys feel he is still "checked out" when it comes to them. H does seem to think about only himself all the time. He has come out of a lot of MLC behaviors but somehow hasn't grown up past, say a 25-year old stage. And I would like to be married to a grown man.


Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway
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Reaching, I'm going to be even more blunt. If a spouse knows the other spouse wouldn't like it, then it is considered disrespectful and unkind. I'm reading " Love Busters ".

One of the headings..." Habits That Bother Your Spouse Unintentionally Withdraw Love Units ".

Now this may or may not be a habit, but it is certainly a repeated pattern of behavior. Under the heading is this following quote: " The bottom line is that a couple who wants to stay in love must pay close attention to the way they affect each other... whether it is intentional or not , a couple's behavior will affect the love they have for each other.

So if one spouse finds some of the other's habits annoying they simply have to go. Otherwise their marriage won't be what either one of them wants it to be. "

My gut says this was an affair, maybe not physical but emotional. It is wrong, period. As for men and women being friends, yeeeeah NO!

If she is attractive in any way shape or form, then the man in him sees it, and has normal sexual urges. To tempt oneself by allowing an emotionally intimate relationship to develop, is begging trouble. It is putting his taker before the marriage and your relationship.
I believe you said the were extremely close...THAT is emotional intimacy. It means one or the other or both chose to be vulnerable with the other. THIS is part of the definition of intimacy!!

I go to church with a man called Col. Oliver North. You may or may not have heard of him. He is a very very attractive, physically fit man. He has been married for over 35 years! He goes out of his way to have a male assistant with him at all times ; when he is in the Middle East, or traveling within the U.S.

He does book tours and is constantly meeting women. He purposely does this so he is NEVER alone or tempted by other women! He is committed to his marriage and his wife!! He has set up a preventative measure to preserve his relationship and marriage because it is his priority. It is valuable and special. He doesn't want it jeopardized.

If you haven't read " Love Busters ". I strongly urge you to. This is supposed to be a new relationship and a new marriage. If this was a different person, not someone with whom you've been married, would this be acceptable to you? If so , why? If not why?

I would ask the person, why do you feel the need to have drinks with this woman, alone, out of the eyesight of the children or me? What is this relationship giving you, and what do you contribute to it? Perhaps not in that manner, but it is something which should be addressed. Why? Because you don't like it! Period!!

One of the things I've learned from all the reading I've done... If in a serious relationship but more importantly , if in a marriage, I should ask myself this: Is what I'm doing , or what I want, good for the marriage? As a couple it should be, is it good for us/our marriage?

Part of being married is to learn the balance of how to handle the giver and the taker in ourselves. Without that balance there is going to be conflict. We have boundaries and limits to what we feel will be good for us and our marriage.

It is so easy to say, I will not share my body with someone other than you, my husband. It is more difficult to say, I will not become emotionally intimate with another man. Perhaps for some it is easy , but others may find it more difficult. This is about keeping oneself only for the other. Not coming between another couple, nor allowing another individual to come between your relationship either!!!

This is where I draw a firm line in the sand. This is where he , I believe is testing you and with what he will be allowed to feed his taker in himself.

Sorry if this is so long. It really hit a nerve with me. And yes, Reaching, I'm taking a second hand offense. Why? Because I know how long and hard you have worked on this relationship. I know YOU are committed to it. I'm just not so sure about him. Too many red flags waving and it makes me very uncomfortable.

I'm a forgiver by nature. I know how difficult it is not to feel for another. To have too much empathy. I still struggle with this. It is easier from the outside to see things and apologize for them, than when on the inside and in love.


You have a gut feeling here , and I've learned to listen to my gut for so far it hasn't been wrong. As for the mind reading, that is why I'd ask the questions. I sure hope this is something that is brought up in counseling. I believe he is taking advantage of you. I'm not convinced that he is still in MLC but is or has become a selfish individual. Too many things just don't seem right. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. It just seems to me, that you are the one doing the work, and he is the one taking. You appreciate everything he does, but his actions to me seem disrespectful and self centered.

I hope I haven't offended you. It is certainly not my intent. I just care for you, and I know I would not do this to the man I love, if he didn't want me to do so. I wouldn't purposely disregard his feelings. For my relationship and marriage would take priority over a " friendship ". Hugs and a pump <3


Formerly Workinprogress
H :55
M :over 29 yrs.
Together : 33
D : college
D : adult
BD and left : May 2013
Separated
Experimenting/Replay

Jan 2014...Let go of rope!


God grant me the serenity...
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I have to agree that his behavior was unacceptable. He knew your feelings, and even if he didn't, the behavior is inappropriate regardless. I am trying to picture what would happen if I were that woman "friend". For one, I would not go over to a married man's house when the wife wasn't there... period. And being in a separate closed off room from the rest of the house, nope.

I could certainly understand if you were there, and you all hung out together.

Have you brought it up with him at all yet? Is he receptive when you try to talk to him about it?

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I'm sorry Reaching. I know this behavior has hurt and disappointed you.

Much Love,

Heather


"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man

“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
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Originally Posted By: reachingHigher
It is so hard to know...I feel I am super-sensitive in this area and wanted to put this situation out there to gauge whether I am overreacting or not.

Hey, rH, I would have the same feelings and thoughts. My H used to tell me that is not a big deal with him having communication, drinks, etc. with single women when I was not there. He brought our massage therapist and her GF to stay with him at the condo once, when I was not there. It raised some eyebrows and I was not happy about it. But he said that I had the issues, being jealous and clingy. I thought that it WAS my issue… Until I told this to some women and the reaction was that they would never allow their husbands to do that. It was just plain disrespectful to me.

So, I don’t think you are wrong about your feelings. I don’t understand what it is with these guys (my H and your H), don’t they get it… Yes, you are right, it was probably him thinking about himself only, and not thinking about other people’s feelings… People who are the closest to him, you and your kids.

The only one thing that I see could rehabilitate him in this situation is that he invited her to the house, and not to some bar, away from everybody. I think it was his way showing that he has nothing to hide. Nevertheless, I still think it is stupid and disrespectful. Hopefully he got the message when you told him that you didn’t like this one bit.


M:50
H:52
S28 (my S from previous marriage)
M:17 + 3
BD: 06/12
S: 06/12 - H works in another state
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Hello friends!!

Wanted to bring an update on my sitch.

It has been a turbulent year in many ways.

Over these summer months, particularly since we took a family vacation to the Keys in July, I have felt angry toward H.

I don’t know how to describe it other than that. I slowed my real estate business down to take care of some household things that have piled up over these MLC years. I probably am behind around 5 years in some paperwork, cleaning, etc.

We moved one year ago and that took a lot since we were moving from 20 acres to 1 acre and I acted the realtor for both transactions. So I was very busy—and it took an emotional toll.

We moved our stuff here but I haven’t sorted, purged, organized, etc. even if it looks neat.

So…this summer I decided it was time to spend a few weeks and tidy my nest to my satisfaction. We have the money to redecorate our new abode and have bought a few pieces of furniture and redid our living room floor in stained/stamped concrete to look like wood tile. It came out totally gorgeous & no one can ever guess its concrete! Kinda fun project as my idea was concrete will be the floor of the future!!!

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Somehow, something mentally, (perhaps in conjunction with clearing out old possessions in the house) I felt it was time to clear the decks. So after years of patience, compassion and understanding for H—I feel angry. At times VERY angry. I haven’t let it all out of course. We have had a few arguments, at times intense. I haven’t accompanied him on as many social events as I felt I often went to keep an eye on him and I’m tired of doing that.

So we’ve had some rough spots. He came home one Friday evening at 1 am after partying with some single friends. On another occasion, he rode his new motorcycle after having drinks with a friend 2 days after he promised me he would never do that.

So this week we did MC. B/c of our insurance we saw the counselor separately. He went for counseling alone first, then we did lunch together, then I went. We did identify a few things. Not enough to keep seeing her but enough to see what is going on.

I planned some activities for us this weekend then I got very pissy Friday night and didn’t do what we had planned—we just argued instead.

H told me to get all this anger out and then to not let it bother us in our R any more.

The realtors I work with have been pressuring me not to take any time off as they are worried I am depressed.

What is strange about the job is that now I am backing off and not chasing any business—it is coming to me! I have 3 deals going on right now—none of which I pursued — they came to me.

Every transaction I have done this year has been cash payment. Our company trainer said thoughtfully this week “Hmmm….you’re attracting cash”. I don’t know what that means but I’m becoming proficient with cash buyers. And my listings all have cash buyers.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

About the anger—it is not hatred. It is anger. Anger of what H did and how he hurt me. I saw more pics on FB of him with girls during our separation...pics while he was sitting in their laps, stuff like that. It makes me angry.

The counselor said I need to be warm and forgiving. I don’t feel warm and forgiving. I want her to tell me HOW to feel forgiving and she can’t do that.

H and I went to an outdoor concert this past Weds that he invited me to. We saw some of his friends from the FAA and sat with them. I hadn’t met them before but they were easy to be with. I felt loving and warm and myself. I felt friendly and great and flirty with H.

What H and I did this weekend was we spent Saturday together after arguing Friday night. We went to the State Fair on Saturday and then to a party with some mostly new friends and a couple people from H’s old party group. But I felt fabulous. I acted just how I would act and didn’t worry about H at all. We were perfect together. Just perfect.

It seems that I get freaked out when he is with his party friends from the MLC period, especially the girls. I just can’t take it, whether he is with them and I am not there or if he is with them and I am there.

H doesn’t understand this, I don’t understand it, and MC doesn’t understand. It shuts me down emotionally.

Everything else seems to be fine. Its just this one area and H doesn’t seem to be willing to give up the occasional meeting with them. It runs from 2 or 3 times a week to once every two weeks.

He told me they want to rent a party bus and then go on a cruise next spring. He is so excited. I told him I would rather have a root canal. He is willing to forego the cruise to make me happy but would love to go.

He and I are talking about a vacation of our own next spring. I noticed he was very excited about talking about it with me but has not mentioned it to his MLC friends.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

H looks SO different. He has grown his hair out so is several inches of golden curls. He drove our S15 to a school event in a very nice neighborhood recently. He had his baseball cap on backwards and was playing what he told me was “gansta” music loudly in his convertible Mustang. A lady walking her dog in the neighborhood told him to slow down that there were kids and dogs in the neighborhood.

He stopped and asked the speed limit. She said 25 mph. He said “I am going 25 mph”. I am sure she was just freaked out by his appearance.

It has take a LOT a LOT to get used to this new person that people used to ask me if he was a pastor.

H’s drinking is MUCH MUCH less. Only a day or two a week now. There is so much progress.

This is such a long road.
I wasn’t sure we could work it out or would want to but I see light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks for listening smile

Comments are welcomed and read and re-read smile


Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway
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Hi ReachingHigher-thank you so much for posting an update! You are an inspirational woman! Job turned me onto your threads and I am reading through them.

I have no advice to offer, but I want you to know that I have learned so much from your posts.

I am curious if your H remembers any of what happened to him? If so, does he know what triggered it? (Long shot I know.). Also, does he feel like he too is getting used to a new you?


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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I'm glad you returned to post an update. I'm sorry that things haven't been the best for you and that the anger is just now starting to bubble forth. You've bottled up your anger for a very long time and now it's got to come out. You are angry because of the way he treated you and your family during his crisis. You are angry that he's still connected to the MLC crowd and doing things w/them. You are angry that he's still acting out and behaving like a teenager (at times) and I think you are somewhat angry that he didn't revert back to the old h completely. rH, he may never be the man you knew and loved pre-crisis. If he's completely thru his crisis, then it sounds like he's kept some of the behaviors/quirks from his crisis.

I want to pose a question to you and I want you to think about it before you answer it, okay? Are you sure he's out of crisis? The things he's doing and the MLC crowd that he's hanging with gives me the impression that he's still got one foot in the crisis pond and one foot in the real world. Generally, when they complete their crisis, they do not stay connected with the people that they hung around with during that time.

Your expectations have been high and he's not met them for you. Try to dial down those expectations because he's still acting out like a teenager. You are now dealing w/the emotional fallout of his crisis and it's going to take you some time to feel like yourself again. It sounds like your MC doesn't have a clue how MLC affects the marriage and the LBS. You may want to consider switching from the MC and going to IC instead, but that's my opinion.

As for your professional life, only you can determine just how much you can handle right now. The people you work w/are seeing only the $$$ signs and want you to continue raking in the cash. If you want to dial down on the sales, then dial down because you know how you feel.

Please take care of yourself.


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hello HaWho!

And thank you for responding. I am so glad there is some hope you can glean from some of my threads—I posted a lot — kudos for trying to make sense of it all!

At this point, my H and I talk about the MLC like we both pretty much understand it to be the same thing—we are on the same page.

We have gone over the triggers, activities, and so on many times. It wasn’t until recently that he acknowledged that when his only sibling died in 2007 that it was a major trigger for him.

At the time of MLC I heard this a lot from him, “I don’t know what has happened to me frown

There is much he doesn’t remember from the MLC days, particularly the part where he was starting out on replay. I mentioned to him recently how he used to get dressed very nicely in the evening in fall of 2011 to go out to bars, parties and events hoping to pick up a woman. He would ask me how his shoes looked, if his pants look okay, etc. “It was so twisted” I said to him. He looked at me blankly.

No, I don’t think he feels like he is getting used to a new me. He sees me as he always has—stable, domestic, responsible and trustworthy.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Thank you, job, ever faithful to help!

I have wondered many times about him not being done with his crisis.

He understands a lot about MLC at this point. He doesn’t think he is done with it either. I sometimes wonder since he didn’t get an OW that he came back a little too early to complete his transformation.

He sent me an email about two months ago and it triggered my anger, I think. It was almost an ultimatum, although he said he didn’t mean it that way. He said there were a lot of things (he listed them) that he was doing now and he wasn’t planning on stopping them. They aren’t so earth-shattering but just very different from the way he used to be. Certainly all within a mostly-normal marriage parameter—but just the new him.

So I guess, job, you nailed it with my expectations being too high.

H & I talked recently during these arguments and identified that he probably always wanted to be the way he is now—just never allowed himself. So this MLC—was truly an “identity crisis” for him. My job is to accept him the way he is (I actually have been doing IC and she said that I need to decide to accept him or not). If I choose not to accept him, its over.

My gut feeling is that some of the behaviors will atrophy after time, and some will stick. He seems very happy most of the time which he never used to even when we were just dating. At that time he was only happy when he was with me. Now he seems content with all of his life—interested in lots of different hobbies, events, and activities. Like he has really come alive with interest in life. All my realtor friends envy me b/c my H cares about his appearance—works out at the gym, takes care how he looks and always is willing to do different activities with me. He takes care of me and the boys, makes great money and is faithful. He constantly tells me I don’t have to work but he sees I like the job and it gets me out there to meet people and have fun events, etc.

I know he sounds ideal, I’m just struggling b/c it isn’t the man I married. I feel like I need a couple months of mulling over my new marriage. I never allowed myself to do this before. Too busy with taking care of everything and everyone else.

Its like I need to accept emotionally at a place deep, deep inside. My H is giving my time and space to do this. He has been very understanding. My IC said many men don’t want to do MC and H was eager to do it. He would do pretty much whatever it takes to make our M work — except give up who he is. He feels that was the purpose of his identity crisis to find out who he is and live that way—not according to anyone else’s expectations.

He apologized again to me recently with choking voice about how he wished he hadn’t hurt me and the boys so badly.

But the boys are doing very well. I would say that everyone is pretty much healed or in the process of healing except me. Its kinda like when they come back—you are the last one he connects with. Maybe I’m the last one to heal also.

I feel I am ready for healing. I’m ready for this chapter of my life to draw to a close. If my H is still acting in teenage ways occasionally—i’ll accept it—it keeps him young and fun and he acts responsibly in the important areas.

He will be 50 in two years and I think he will settle down more by then.

I do also see as I grow—he grows. I vaguely remember something maybe in Hearts’ Blessing posts about that. I noticed this weekend on Sunday I pulled my car out to detail it (don’t do it very often at all) and H cleaned the WHOLE garage. I spent only a few hours on the car and he spent all day on the garage. Normally he would mostly be looking at his computer tablet or out with friends.

So, I feel the healing is in my hands—I heal; we heal.

Thank you again for posting to me.
Expectations will be dialed down.
I’m going to work on me.


Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway
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rH,
I do understand what you are saying about he's different. Some do return w/behaviors/quirks from their time in crisis. Whether they are good or bad will depend upon how you look at them. Are they deal breakers? Can you learn to live w/them? Do you feel uncomfortable w/the new him? If you find that you can't accept him for who he is now, you may have to make some decisions down the road. However, I think it is still a bit early to toss in the towel on him.

Having a MLCer return home, even if they return a bit early, it's difficult to readjust because you are expecting them to jump right back into the old relationship and pick up right where you left off. Both of you have changed quite a bit and now you both have come back together and it's difficult because both of you have to complete the healing process. Expectations from the lbs run high, disappointments come into play because the expectations aren't being met. We want them to be the way they were pre-crisis and that is not always the case. Some come out new and improved, others are strangers to us until they settle down and then...there are those who never return. He's still got a ways to go before he completes the "acceptance stage". He's saying the right things, but some of his actions say he's still wanting to play in the crisis pool for a bit longer. rH, keep the expectations dialed down to zero. Okay? Once the "acceptance stage" has been completed, there is one more stage and that stage is him settling into his own skin. This could take anywhere from 18-24 months.

I'm glad you are seeing an IC and hopefully he can help you work through your healing process. Take all of the time and space that you need to heal. Don't allow anyone to rush your progress. Okay?


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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