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asitis Offline OP
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So, I promised some other insights that came out in the talk w/ my wife.

First was that she would not look in my eyes when she was talking. I was active listening, and giving what would have been good contact if she had been willing to return it.

Second, she admitted that while she said that she had forgiven me for hurting her during our M, she realized now that she had not and was still nursing anger towards me.

I think she is both still too afraid to let go of the protection of her anger, and that the eye contact is too scary for her - she might feel herself drawn back in.

Nothing I can do to rush her into the forgiveness. I didn't hurt her as bad as she is now "remembering," have apologized and made amends, and have clearly changed in ways that make the behavior that she found hurtful not really an issue. So, this is her battle to fight. She is still highly guarded and afraid to have a real connection to me, as I suspect she unconsciously realizes that she wants our love back and that scares the cr*p out of her. That's not to say she will ever realize this or open up. Just that, once again, patience and not getting one's hopes up is the path.

I'll have a lot to discuss w/ my DB coach. The eye contact can't be forced or rushed. We had a very good day today. Just let that sink in.

Also, I had called my MiL yesterday so the boys could wish their grandmother happy birthday. Talked to MiL for a bit (she clearly was open to it). Didn't bring up W, just talked about my school & what she was doing for birthday, and the boys. W said she talked to her today, and that even more than being tickled to talk to the boys, she was very happy that I had remembered and made the call and talked. W told her that she had hadn't mentioned MiL's b-day, and W was very glad that I had remembered and helped the boys connect w/ her mom.

I'm very happy with the day. Nothing fundamentally changes. I knew it wouldn't be very stressful (maybe that's the acting as if, only I didn't doubt at all), but it still was a very good, easy hour and a half. Bodes well for our future negotiations and R. Don't think she will come around before the D, but see that it could happen better than I did before today. So, not hopeful, but happy.


Me: 50 W:43
S6, S3
M: 12 yrs. T: 17
M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14
S 5 Feb '15
D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry")
DB Coach May '15
Wants proceed on D Aug '15
Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
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asitis Offline OP
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Made the mistake of trying to validate her feelings after her disclosure of not having forgiven me, and thanking her for letting me know, as it helped me understand a bit better where she was and what she wanted.

Went out and had a great 2 hour chat over coffee w/ a fellow student. Came hope to a ranting e-mail about not wanting my help with her anger (it's between her and her IC - yeah, that's going so well) and that she was just trying to tell me she was only telling me that she still hadn't forgiven me so that I knew we couldn't be friends any time soon and why she didn't want me touching her (My guess - I put my hand on her arm when we shared how glad we both were to be able to work together this well during the negotiation, which she returned). Funny how when she told me she still hadn't been able to forgive me, that she didn't mention what she wanted from me (she really is bad at asking for what she wants).

Only a tiny reaction to the e-mail, then a calm sorry that she is so riled up in anger after this long.

I just thanked her for her honesty and said I'd be over to take S6 to school as planned.

I had just gotten done talking with my friend about how I was really feeling bad for my W that she was so trapped in her anger, unable to get help from her therapist, and was still sending me mixed signals despite it (being pleasant and wanting to talk despite harboring this rage towards me).

I'm sure she is expecting me to want to talk about it. But she needs to see that I'm OK with her being angry. It's just not a big deal, and she is free to feel how she wants. It doesn't hurt me other than that I feel bad for her. She has always had difficulty feeling she can express it. I would engage before to try to address the anger, but that doesn't seem to help. So now, it's just "thanks for being honest, sorry you feel that way," and on with my life. If she wants to discuss the issue more, she can come to me.

Very sad to see, as she really is good person, and it is hard to watch her trapped in such pain. I'd say not my problem if it didn't potentially impact our ability to be good co-parents. Still, it is her problem not mine. I'd do anything I could to help her, but I can't other than letting her find her own path.

Besides, I had a really good time talking with my friend over coffee. She is the one person in my cohort who has some real experience and understanding, and we are really grateful that the other is in our cohort. We just got done with a rough week of classes, and we really help each other out. And, no I don't have a thing for her. She has pretty face (I have some different preferences in figure, which I know is sort of shallow, but there you go) and I enjoy talking to her, but she is in a healthy long-term relationship with a police officer, and she is still way too young for me (although at 28, she has a bit more worldly experience than the 23/24 year-olds who comprise most of my cohort).

We've decided to start a book discussion group with a couple other people in the program who share some interests, and organizing a dinner for a couple of the people plus their significant others. So, I'm not about to get down over something my W says. Que sera sera.


Me: 50 W:43
S6, S3
M: 12 yrs. T: 17
M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14
S 5 Feb '15
D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry")
DB Coach May '15
Wants proceed on D Aug '15
Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
Joined: Jul 2015
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I'm sorry to hear how your W is treating you. It's a shame her IC isn't helping her. You are being very compassionate Kudos (((hugs)))


Me:33 H:36
T:13 years
M:10 years
S4
Separated 05/15
H Filed 06/15
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asitis Offline OP
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Thanks. At least she is being honest. That makes it a lot easier, in a way. It isn't that I didn't do anything to trigger her anger either. I'm know that this is never just one sided. Still, I'd rather know that she is still so angry that she doesn't even want me to touch her. That's shows that it really is a kind of rage. I didn't know that before today. I was operating under a mistaken assumption that has been cleared up for me. It is her problem, but it helps to know what to expect & not to expect, and how to interact with her in a non-destructive way.

So, it also makes it much harder for me to hold out hope for expecting anything from her any time soon. It confirms that my choice to move ahead with my life was the right choice, and that I need to leave her to her take care of herself. All very helpful to know. So, in an odd way, it was a good day.


Me: 50 W:43
S6, S3
M: 12 yrs. T: 17
M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14
S 5 Feb '15
D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry")
DB Coach May '15
Wants proceed on D Aug '15
Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,435
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As, hang in there, you are a rock.



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Even though you seem fine I still feel sorry you have to experience this.



“Character is destiny” Heraclitus
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Hang tough brother. Our W's sound a lot alike, both afraid they'll get sucked back in so keeping a healthy distance. I've heard the quote that "healing happens at the injured party's rate" so there really is nothing you can do to speed that process up or even guarantee it will happen.

Keep doing what you are. I agree with photo, you're a damn rock. I don't think I could stay as calm in the same situations.

One step at a time, no matter where those steps take us right.


M 39 W 36
T5 M3
BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day
Served 9/15
D finalized 6/17
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asitis Offline OP
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Think of it as you've just finally been given good information to base your actions on. It also re-confirms in a really firm way that this is not really about you, and that the best thing you can do to show your love is to let go so that she can struggle through without you as an excuse for not facing her own demons.

She thinks her life will start when she is able to buy a new house and start living her life. There really won't be any difference to right now, as no one is stopping her from living her life other than her. She's got to learn that and it will take a D to do that. I've seen that she's got to do this to be able to have a chance to see that there are things about herself that she is unwilling to face.

If she does get to the point where she deals with her sh*t, there is nothing to say we can't date and re-marry. In the meantime, I'm not so much further along and healthier. I'm sad that she can't see what she is losing, but I'm not giving much up at this point. I'm fully alive in a way I wasn't. I've got a good life that is satisfying to me. I was worried that she was going to try to screw me over financially, but it is pretty clear that she will bend over backwards to get this done and I can negotiate a fair deal. I'm looking forward to having a place of my own and continuing to build my life.

Haven't talked a lot about all this, but it may help explain why I can be OK with things.

Also, one of my 180s is to not try to fix things when she gets angry. Not my problem unless she lets it intrude on the co-parenting sitch.


Me: 50 W:43
S6, S3
M: 12 yrs. T: 17
M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14
S 5 Feb '15
D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry")
DB Coach May '15
Wants proceed on D Aug '15
Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,387
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Well said As, well said.

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M 39 W 36
T5 M3
BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day
Served 9/15
D finalized 6/17
Joined: May 2015
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asitis Offline OP
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Not much going on. Barely interacted w/ my W the last week, which is for the best. Today when we switched w/ the kids she mentioned that her IC had her down to once a month and didn't think she probably even needed that. Let out a "really, even with all your issues?" before I could catch myself. She said I don't really have much in the way of issues. STFU smoothie (see last Sunday's angry rant toward me doing something compassionate and her still being so angry that she can't make eye contact or be touched - even if she returned the casual touch).

Wanted to say something very badly. I had been thinking (although I've dropped it) that I wanted to ask her to go to a family counselor to get help with the dysfunctional dynamic of her sending mixed signals and then blasting me for being nice to her. Very tempting to raise that.

It was only about 5 months ago that she was saying that she would probably be in therapy for the rest of her life because of all of her issues, especially shame and anger. Very tempting to remind her of that. Wanted to say, that I'm sorry for presuming you still had lots of issues, as you have raised having lots of issues not that long ago. Then again, she used to acknowledge that she contributed a lot to the breakdown of our M, but now it is all about me. That in itself seems to be a big issue, but her IC seems not to think so.

Nothing I can do. Very sad. Wish something would break through that shell for her and for us, but it's not something that can come from me. It is hard to see someone I still care about think that carrying all that blame for another and anger at another is healthy and normal.

Going to need to sit with the frustration that triggers.

And as I'm sitting her W texts me that she left some meat in the apartment fridge & wondered if it was OK to come over. Just odd how she works.

We have our next negotiation this coming Saturday. W is still not sure what else we need to discuss. I said we haven't even started on our possessions, we still have custody issues to discuss, and ... "Oh, yeah I guess we do." It's almost like she doesn't want to deal with this - like she might have some issues blocking her being able to face the reality of the path she has chosen.

Oh well.


Me: 50 W:43
S6, S3
M: 12 yrs. T: 17
M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14
S 5 Feb '15
D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry")
DB Coach May '15
Wants proceed on D Aug '15
Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
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