H has started an affair 2

[Anna25]

My first thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2597121#Post2597121

Hi Sotto,

I think I blew it about tonight's dinner.
I had to call our cable company this morning. Since it's under H's name, they wanted to talk to him, so I handed him my phone. Before I realized and went into the room, I think H was snooping on my phone...he probably saw the text exchange with my gay friend. Big mistake....oh well but I'm not really used to hiding things from H. I have to learn from this mistake.....

H actually was still trying to make advance in the morning. I was very frustrated by his lack of respect for me, I reacted saying " why don't you ask that girl" I know it was the bad way to respond.....ahhhhh. And what H said? " I don't do that with her. I don't have sex with her" I feel so disrespected.......

[mvgfwd2]

Good Job!!! Be confident, Be independent, Be mysterious, and GAL, GAL, GAL! It does work.

If H wants to act married with you he knows what he as to do (ie. send a NC letter to OW and abide by your other boundaries). And actually act like a H that wants to be married to YOU. Anything less makes him a babysitter.

You didn't blow it about dinner. He will still be concerned what you are doing. New perfume and clothes will make him wonder.

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, I wouldn't beat yourself up about that. You're going to dinner with a friend...H can make of that what he will. If he snooped on your phone, thats up to him.

As for making advances in the morning. I understand you feeling disrespected. And I think this is where drawing the boundary is so important. Yes, your H may not be having S with OW (but of course we know that all cheaters lie). However, he is not being a good H just now. As Mvg has said. He is the babysitter. Would you ML with the babysitter?

What I wouldn't do is make anything about OW. But, I think it is fair to say to him. H - given the state of our M just now, I just don't feel like ML to you. And I would leave it at that.

Don't feel bad about it. Don't worry about it. The fact is, if your H were invested in you and in your M, you would enjoy ML to him. But he isn't just now. His attention is diverted with yukky OW...and so why would you want to ML to him on those terms? This part is about you and your own comfort/needs - not him...

Hope you are having a good weekend. xx

[Anna25]

So Saturday night dinner was fun. I had a great time and actually really laughed. My friend was happy that I came out because I always tend to hold back, putting H and kids' schedule first. I'm glad I did too.

Yesterday myself and H were both off. We took the kids to their class together but no conv. between us. After that, H stayed home all day, but mostly sleeping in another room and no meals together or no interactions, not really even with kids. I didn't know why he bothered to be there then.

This morning H was late again to come home for me to go to work. I talked to him about this a few times before and he insisted he wouldn't be late again, but of course this is one of his empty promises. I think his issues with alcohol & Depression are getting worse (thus he can't wake up on time)

The problem is that I can't afford to hire a all day sitter/daycare for two right now. I don't have my family here whom I can ask to watch the kids. My in-laws don't know anything about what's going on...
I'm getting worried about finances, but if I separate finances I can't afford to pay mortgage by myself. H's work seems slower too and he can't afford two separate living expenses either. I feel very stuck...

[mvgfwd2]

What are your options? You can't let H damage your job. If you had to could you afford an apartment and a babysitter with the kids? You may need to get the in-laws to babysit. [censored] but H is putting you in a tough spot and you will need to take action to deal with it. H knows he can't be late yet does it anyway, unreliable. No point talking to him again, just do something on your own. If the in-laws ask why they need to babysit just tell them to talk with H about it.

[Anna25]

My options are limited.
I could ask H to sleep at home, but I don't know how it sounds?? Or I could ask in-laws, but I'm not sure if the exposure at this point will be helpful or not (because I can see in-laws getting mad and trying to reason/preach him)
Last night he came in earlier. (I laugh at myself saying that H coming home at 2:30am is early) ...and slept the rest of the night on the couch.
I guess I could afford an apartment, but that is the last thing I want to do with kids. I really want to maintain their "normal" as much as possible.
My D3 is starting to feel something is wrong (like we never do things as a whole family anymore) She is more clingy to me and having a separation anxiety at times...

[Anna25]

Journaling.

Nothing much is happening with H. He has been avoiding me and hasn't said anything really.

For myself, I have been working out and enjoying cooking. Looking forward to BBQ invite tomorrow and beach time on the weekend with other moms & kids.

I feel like I am getting better at avoiding to think about the situation, which I'm not sure if it's good or bad. Of course it is on my mind all the time, but I'm trying not to think what H is up to etc because it just drives me nuts.
I am acting as if I'm doing fine and minding my own business, but I wonder if "want M/H back" energy is oozing out of my body for H to see...

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, all of that sounds fine to me. All of the things you are doing, whilst not easy, are heading you in a good direction. That of making new friends, learning new skills, enjoying better health and so on.

As for your feelings about H - it's good that you are learning the skill of diverting your thoughts from the sitch. You realise it drives you nuts (of course it does ) but you are employing strategies to manage that.

As you say, there may be some 'needy' energy evident at times. But less than there was I'll bet and you are doing your best to fake it until you make it. I think you are doing well. I don't think I was doing half so well at your stage in the process, so good for you.

More of the same please Anna

[Anna25]

Thanks Sotto, as always...

I was doing ok until just now. H told me he had to work tonight unexpectedly.
Then Boom! I just saw his Instagram at some restaurant. It's only his picture, but I see there are two glasses on the table.
Wow... I'm really mad right now.
H thinks it's ok now to post their 'date' pictures?
We talked about tight budget and cutting kids' class and he is out having nice dinner?? I'm the only one worried about paying all the bills while H does whatever???
I really want to react right now...I know I need a plan even to confront him about this, but man, this is hard....

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, I'm sorry you saw this. Even though we 'know' there are some lies and our S may not be where they said they are, it is hard to 'see' stuff. It always knocked me for six when that happened.

What I would also say is social media brings much pain to people on the forum. The more you can shut down/not look in that regard, the better.

Hmm, it's a decision to make whether you raise this with him. I guess the boundary issues may be - You're lying. Stop with the lies. It's not appropriate to post pics like this (alongside family ones..)

Also, are you protecting yourself and the kids financially? My H spent '000s visiting AP (who was long haul distance at the time.) Luckily we had that money to spend...but if not.

Don't do anything until you have heard from someone who knows more than me.

Any vets out there able to help Anna???

[Anna25]

Hi Sotto,

I haven't said or done anything yet.

However, H was late AGAIN this morning. This time he initiated the conversation about how this is not working and asked me what we should do. I said he could hire a babysitter but it's probably not realistic considering the money he has been giving me, or I could ask in-laws. He didn't like the idea of in-laws. So I asked him what he thinks. He didn't have an answer, but told me he really didn't want to be here (at home)

Since we didn't have too much time to talk, that was it. But H didn't want to live here anymore, that much is clear.

I really need to figure out how, finance and childcare if we do separate. I'm not sure if H has any concrete idea on how he can proceed. I'm not sure anymore if H even wants to be with the kids. Is he thinking he can just take off with no responsibility for kids? I really don't know this person right now...

[mvgfwd2]

You may want to see a L to determine your options. If your only option is to call the in-laws than to babysit then that is what you have to do. If it's a problem for H that's too bad. He's the one who created this mess and left you with no other options. Stop protecting him from the consequences of his actions.

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, I'm sorry to hear this and I agree with mvgfwd. It sounds like it is time for you to take advantage of the initial free consultations offered by L's. This will help you determine what support should be forthcoming from your H in the event he chooses to leave.

As you say, it sounds as though you will need to make plans in terms of childcare and finances. You and he S is by no means a bad thing IMHO. He is 'out' of the M just now anyway, and probably sees you as 'standing between' him and the green grass of being with AP. Probably he needs to get tummyache from greengrass overload in order to see what he is losing. If you are also solidly moving forward, making your own plans and letting him be, that will be the best plan I think.

I wouldn't try and pursuade him to stay. But you can let him know that S isn't your choice, but you respect that if it is his. And then let him go.....it is still early days in your sitch and this is by no means the end of things...

Good luck Anna xx

[twinmom]

Sometimes filing for legal separation is a good thing. I think this would help protect you and the kids. You also need to stop protecting your H from his family. If you need help, ask for it. Don't lie to them, don't tattle on H but the truth is the truth.

[Painter]

Hi Sotto,

I haven't said or done anything yet.

However, H was late AGAIN this morning. This time he initiated the conversation about how this is not working and asked me what we should do. I said he could hire a babysitter but it's probably not realistic considering the money he has been giving me, or I could ask in-laws. He didn't like the idea of in-laws. So I asked him what he thinks. He didn't have an answer, but told me he really didn't want to be here (at home)

Since we didn't have too much time to talk, that was it. But H didn't want to live here anymore, that much is clear.

I really need to figure out how, finance and childcare if we do separate. I'm not sure if H has any concrete idea on how he can proceed. I'm not sure anymore if H even wants to be with the kids. Is he thinking he can just take off with no responsibility for kids? I really don't know this person right now...

So if H - the children's father - doesn't want to take care of them anymore, he's changing what you have been doing all along? That is not your problem. If he doesn't want to be there, he has to find another solution. You made a suggestion, now it's up to him.

Do you know where he is staying? Maybe drop the kids off there one morning when he's not there on time?

[Anna25]

mvgfwd, Sotto, Twinmom and Painter,

Thank you for your advice, we had some conversation over the weekend, so here it is.

Yesterday I took the kids to the beach for mom's meetup.
While getting ready with stuff, H asked where we are going. So I said beach. He was like "Beach? With Who?" "Some friends" "A guy friend? with kids?" He sounded like he is convinced I am dating a guy and I'm taking the kids to the guy. He seemed mad. I said "friends"


And last night H and I had a talk, really first time since BD.

H started saying, "While we are ignoring each other and have no relationship, I don't know why we are doing this" So I said, "Sorry if you feel that way, but my thoughts about M has not changed (that I would like to work on our R)

He said he is looking for an additional job and wants to get some cheap place for himself. He said it's not just because of OW, things are not that great with her either (which I don't necessarily believe)
He doesn't want D or anything right now, but he needs some space. I validated his feelings and I said I'm really sorry if he has to leave, and I don't agree, but I still respect his choice.
H said he has a lot of respect for me, I'm a great mom and wife, he still finds me very sexy, so it's not something I did, it's all something in his head. He also said that this will probably be the biggest mistake of his life, but he just can't do it right now.

I was calm and didn't cry. He said he wish I could be mad at him.

H also said I'm smart and beautiful that I will meet someone who can make me happy, that I deserve to be happy, but he can't do that. So I told him I'm not looking for anyone to make me happy if it's him or not, I want to make myself happy, which I have been giving a thought for this while.

Financially, H said he never wants to lose the house and wants us to keep living here. H wants his dog to stay here too for guarding us. I told him I can't take a good care of the dog by myself with work and kids, but he said "I'll come around" (what does that mean??)
H admitted he had been careless about spending especially for the first month or so when he started coming home late, but he wants to be more responsible now. He mentioned that he will try to stay more at home during the week so that he won't make me late and spend less money. (which I have mixed feeling about, since he announced clearly he doesn't want to be here...)

I'm kind of glad to know that he still cares about our well-being financially and is willing to find a job to support extra expenses (I still have to see his actions though)

About the kids, H asked me if I will prevent him from seeing them if he leaves, so said I won't do that as long as he wants to and be comfortable taking care of them because he is the dad and kids love him.

H gave me a good hug and kissed my hand saying sorry.

If H doesn't live up to his promise on the financial responsibility, I will go consult with L, also him being on time I will seek help with in-laws. (H asked me if I talked to his sister about current situation, I said no because it's your family and if you would like you should talk to her. H said his in-laws are My family too, they will always be)

Overall I think I did the best I can in the situation. I think he might have thought I was out too before the conv. I made it clear that's not it and I have not been ignoring him but giving him a space, regardless, I will respect his decision.

I talked to DB coach too and he advised me to continue to go out, do whatever stuff, make him wonder (even if he seems like he is ok with it or even encouraging) He said I can be a little more engaging at home like greeting if he thinks I have been ignoring him.....

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, it sounds as though that talk went as well as it could have done. And I agree that you should stick with your DB coach and follow their advice.

It sounds as though your H's plans are a little half baked. He wants to do stuff that he can't really afford to do. He's looking for extra work will find a cheap place etc. He may end up living somewhere pretty cr@ppy, or may move in with OW (can't recall her circs...) So I would prepare yourself for that.

You may want to come to an agreement about the kids and OW if you can. Though ultimately he may make his own choices about this. Don't set too much store about things being poor with OW. The R with my H and OW seems to have been rocky from the outset - on - off - on etc. But she's still on the scene somewhere 18 months later....

About finances - again, I would agree a clear plan and be vigilant about monitoring things. WAS's often say they want to be fair, but in practice don't honour this. I know it may feel hard to take the L step, but my advice would be to have the free consults and engage your L, so you are ready to instruct them if needed. I was so reluctant to take that step, but I have never regretted it.

You're doing really well. You don't get through this sitch without engaging with some brutal reality and I think you are doing that. But also remain faith that ultimately your life will become happier again - either with your H in it, or not. Have you read about the Stockdale Paradox? Many DBers have found the duality within it helpful...

Take care xx

[Anna25]

Hi Sotto,

You are right, H's plan is totally half baked. I don't think he really crunched numbers to see how much it takes to do what he wants to do. OW seems to share a room with somebody else, so H staying there is not an option right now. But of course, they could get a new place together I guess.

I really don't beliebe OW situation as H said, especially because they work together and have many mutual friends/coworkers...

As you said, I think I'm still too reluctant to take the next step. I know I have to protect my kids, it's just the next step seems too real and scary. But I made promise to myself that I will set the time frame to see how he is going to be, if nothing changes or gets worse, I will go forward.

As for GALing, I went to my first Spanish class last night and it was fun! I wish I could have done it before. This is something I would never have done thogh, if this hadn't happened. (Using time for just myself when H is home and going to unfamilier places on my own etc)

Thanks for the recommendation, I will look it up rigt now

[Painter]

Anna, I wouldn't wait to see an attorney. If you wait, you will be left to reacting to anything H does. In order to protect yourself and the children - as you know he is not completely rational right now - you need to be ahead and not run behind. Seeing an attorney is not a commitment, it is just a way to find out what your potential avenues are, going forward. I am worried that you may regret not having informed yourself of your rights and options.

My H kept saying he wanted to be fair, that he was looking out for me, while he hired an attorney behind my back and tried to block my entry to our marital home. He also thought that I should just go live with my son without any financial support from him, in another state, and start rebuild my life from scratch. I stayed home for many years taking care of his children and his mother, so I don't have a retirement or any experience from the job market in recent years. When I talked to an attorney, I got information that was very, very different from what H thought was "fair". It was very empowering, and made me feel a lot better about my situation. It took away a lot of fear and uncertainty I had felt. I also believe that it made H reconsider his decisions and snapped him out of the fog.

[Painter]

I would recommend seeing a female attorney who specializes in divorce. Different attorneys give different advice, and I have seen male attorneys who were very negative when it came to my rights and prospects because they had personal views against divorce.

[Starsky309]

Anna, I wouldn't wait to see an attorney. If you wait, you will be left to reacting to anything H does. In order to protect yourself and the children - as you know he is not completely rational right now - you need to be ahead and not run behind. Seeing an attorney is not a commitment, it is just a way to find out what your potential avenues are, going forward. I am worried that you may regret not having informed yourself of your rights and options.

My H kept saying he wanted to be fair, that he was looking out for me, while he hired an attorney behind my back and tried to block my entry to our marital home. He also thought that I should just go live with my son without any financial support from him, in another state, and start rebuild my life from scratch. I stayed home for many years taking care of his children and his mother, so I don't have a retirement or any experience from the job market in recent years. When I talked to an attorney, I got information that was very, very different from what H thought was "fair". It was very empowering, and made me feel a lot better about my situation. It took away a lot of fear and uncertainty I had felt. I also believe that it made H reconsider his decisions and snapped him out of the fog.

x 2.


Starsky

[Anna25]

Painter and Starsky,

I owe it so much to this board.
First GALing and L now, I was really hesitant and I couldn't have done it without your nudge. Thank you very much.

I went to IC today and she also told me the importance of taking care of/protecting myself and kids. " Put yourself on the front burner now. Sure, people oppose it when it first happens, telling you to go back to the old ways, but you are not being selfish by taking care of you."

So I contacted one of the L offices I found. Still waiting for their call back, but I took the tiny step anyways...

I also unfollowed H's instagram since it only gives me anxiety no matter what I find or don't find...

It's funny, though H has not been treating me well at all, I still care so much about H's wellbeing, I still so want to protect and take care of his financials, his physical and mental health etc...

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, I think that's a good move. Most L's (in the UK anyway) offer initial free half hour consultations, so do make the most of those and go with Qs prepared. See more than one L if you're not sure about the first one. There is no need for your H to know you have even been. This is purely for you to get some advice and understand your rights and options better.

Good luck with things. Glad the IC is ongoing and good for you with the Instagram. You really don't need that just now...enough anxiety already!

I can understand what you say about your H. The love doesn't just disappear when there is a significant shared history there. Even though as you say, the behaviour isn't great.

Keep on going - you're doing really well my friend xx

[Painter]

Good for you! Think about it as the oxygen masks on an airplane. You can't help anyone else unless you put your own mask on first.

One tip: Don't spend time on telling the L that you don't want to divorce. They can't do anything about that, it's outside their area. Look at it as a tutoring session, and you want to get as much info as you can about a *possible* outcome to an action that could be initiated by either H or you.

Bring a financial overview - I saved tons of time with my L by having a spreadsheet with me of assets, debts, monthly income and expenses. Then I wrote a brief history (a page or so) of our M and the A and where we were at that time. She could read all of it in a few minutes, refer to it as we spoke, and not have to spend time asking me many questions, taking notes and making calculations. She could go right to the options and tell me what would most likely happen based on this info, and what my options were. It was an incredibly productive session.

[Sotto]

Anna, I think if you can see yourself as the one who needs to maintain security and steadiness, that may help. You've acknowledged that your H is making half-baked plans from a place of infatuation just now. None of that is in the best interests of either your marriage or your family.

You seeking L advice is purely a means to maintain as much steadiness and security for everyone in the face of current uncertainties.

[Anna25]

Hi Sotto,

Yes, they offer initial free consultation in the States too, so I am going to take advantage of that.

I looked up Stockdale Paradox you mentioned, and wow that was exactly what I was wondering.
I still have so much hope that he will snap out of it eventually, and that hope is the thing that keeps me going despite of all the difficulties. I am not truly yet in the mindset of "no matter what happens I will be a better person"

And then I wonder, what if he never comes back? Then I will crush so badly, will I be ever able to get up again?
To hope for the best and prepare for the worst, is exactly what I need. I was so scared that I was in denial, but I will too have to snap out of it...

[Starsky309]

Good for you! Think about it as the oxygen masks on an airplane. You can't help anyone else unless you put your own mask on first.

One tip: Don't spend time on telling the L that you don't want to divorce. They can't do anything about that, it's outside their area. Look at it as a tutoring session, and you want to get as much info as you can about a *possible* outcome to an action that could be initiated by either H or you.

Bring a financial overview - I saved tons of time with my L by having a spreadsheet with me of assets, debts, monthly income and expenses. Then I wrote a brief history (a page or so) of our M and the A and where we were at that time. She could read all of it in a few minutes, refer to it as we spoke, and not have to spend time asking me many questions, taking notes and making calculations. She could go right to the options and tell me what would most likely happen based on this info, and what my options were. It was an incredibly productive session.

Exceptional advice!!


Starsky

[Anna25]

Painter,

Thank you so much for the valuable tip!
I will pepare the income/expense/asset review for L to see.
Honestly I was not really sure what to expect, so thank you.

My bigguest Q is how we can be protected while H is still livinng at home. (since I don't think H being able to move out is happening too soon...)

[Anna25]

This morning when I was about to leave, H gave me a really long hug. H said I need to eat more, so I replied I'm just eating healthy and I feel good. H lingered saying he just wanted to hold me.
H also asked me to kiss him, so I said" I want to but can't", H said "I know" same old conv. He asked me a few times, but didn't force it. H seemed very tired and stressed.
Even though I have to admit it felt good to be in his arms, I gathered up all my willpower and said I have to go and left.

Ups and downs continue...

[Painter]

It's so hard. So very, very hard. It's worse when they try to pull you back in, it plays right into the loss we feel.

You are strong and principled, and it's what you need to be for yourself. I hope he is feeling the loss, and it's good that you don't let him eat cake.

Starsky, thanks!

[LMS]

HELP!! My husband and I have been separated for 6 months.. and I have been trying to use the DB principles.. but I just found out he's setting up to have an weekend away with one of his Match.com women.. and I'm hurting all over. When I came home from being away for 5 weeks seeing my family ..he hugged me and said he missed me, and was different. He apologized for things..which before he never did. And so I responded and made a nice dinner for he and my son.. and then I think he felt that I was "back" and he turned toward the excitement of a new girlfriend.. and I have no idea what to do. I am trying to "go dark" but we have to sort out financial things for my daughter who is in college. Please advise.. -very very sad and not sleeping. My biggest fear is that he will LOVE sex with this match.com woman and then I will totally lose him..

[LMS]

its really good to see you stay principled. I think that I fold and go 'back' emotionally at the smallest invitation and my husband feels that and I lose ground. I really respect how you are handling things. I feel like my husband has me for 'comfort'and then goes gallivanting on match.com for excitement. Can you help me.. when he invites me for dinner or tries to come into my car on the ferry to talk.. should I decline? I thinklikely yes? But how do I start to show him that we can have a good relationship?

[Anna25]

Hi LMS,

I'm sorry to hear you are in a tough situation. I totally feel you, heartbroken, so am I.
I just recently unfollowed H's instagram and deleted facebook app from my phone. Believe me it was hard. I used to check H's activity all the time, not because I suspected him doing anything wrong, but I guess that shows my neediness and dependancy on him I used to have.

Now I don't know what he is up to, which is really weird. I know very little about the man I used to share every little thing every day. But I am coming to terms with the fact that I can have no control over some things. No matter how anxious I get over what he is doing, who he is with, I can do nothing about it right now. If I knew he would go on a date, can I stop it? No,then it's better not to know about things that only give me hurt and axiety.
It doesn't mean I won't go crazy and lose it. I probably will, but I'm just trying for my own sake...

My H does change his attitude all the time too. One day he acts like he really misses me, the next day he seems to want to have nothing to do with me. It is so so difficult not to have your hopes up when H seems to come around. I have to tell myself all the time that this will not resolve next week and I just have to be patient for a bumpy ride. No doubt my H is very confused, I believe so is your H. They don't know what they want, or they don't want to decide right now. They just act like little kids who like new toys, but still need their security blanket when they feel down.

How nice I should be to H is my issue all the time too! My DB coach told me to treat H as I treat my brother. I would treat him with love, but I wouldn't obsess about him or try to control him. Yeah I get that in my head, but I know it is difficult to put it into practice when your H, who you desperately want, is there. Sigh...

I'm in no position of giving you advise, but I just wanted to give you my support that I feel your pain...I hope you will get some great ideas from wise people on this board.

[Anna25]

I'm not in a very good place this weekend.
I was going to out tonight so I asked H if he can watch the kids, but he said he is working all day. Something about his response gave me a hunch that he is lying. He kept saying sorry. He wouldn't have to say sorry if he is picking up extra shift to make more money. Also I saw his work clothes in the room and he didn't come home to change or shower.
So when I was out with kids this morning, I drove by his work. I don't know why, but I couldn't help it. Sure enough his car was not there.
I don't ask his whereabouts anymore, but he is out everyday. So if I ask once or twice a week for him to watch the kids, does he have to lie? I told him I can't afford to pay extra( like going out time) for a babysitter, so I have no choice to stay, but he is not working and doing who knows what.
I'm angry. I want to say something. Is it ok to say something? ( without mentioning that I went by his work) How should I say it?

[Painter]

I'd ask in a bewildered voice: "The kids and I went by to treat you to lunch so you could see them - but you weren't there??"

It might not be a great idea but I probably couldn't help myself...

On the other hand, they're his kids. He doesn't "watch them" for you. They are a shared responsibility. Maybe you need to suggest a separation agreement that includes a custody schedule, if he's going to bail out on them.

Or - you could tell him that then you'll ask the in-laws.

DISCLAIMER: I have no idea if any of this is DB-approved. It's just what I would consider.

[LMS]

thank you so much for responding.. it helps just to know someone understands. I have thought of deleting my facebook account but can't quite do it. I am trying to make my own plans and avoid all contact. I went on a 14 K run with a friend out in the Cascade mountains and that was great..but it is so hard to come home to an empty suite all by myself. Even though I felt I made this heroic attempt to GAL. I just ache.. with the effort of wading through this pain all the time. I want to figure out how to make it diminish..but even when I do the right things.. it is still there. What helps??

[twinmom]

Parenting plan!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A set schedule of who is with the kids and when. If he doesn't show up, you call the in-laws and all them to watch the kids because you have somewhere to be and your H is MIA?

[Anna25]

So H came home Saturday night. I asked if he had been working all day and how work was, he said yes, fine. So I didn't ask further.I was still not sure how,and I wanted to think a little more how to talk about this.

However this morning, H told me he is sorry I couldn't go out Saturday night. So I said, " You didn't work on Saturday, did you?" He said he really did work the night but not during the day and he was sorry he didn't tell me. I asked him I'd rather him to tell me if he didn't want to watch the kids, and he said that's not why.
So H does certain things, and he feels too guilty and fesses up on his own (to some extent).

We chatted about his work a little, and I told him I'll be a little late tonight (for a Spanish class, but he doesn't have to know that!) and kids' dinner is in the fridge. He asked me yet again if it's a guy and if he is handsome. OK I really had to laugh. What??? H kept saying that he just wanted to know how the guy looks and if he is handsome. WTH???

From there, a repeat from the other morning. H just wanted to hug me and tried to kiss me. I couldn't help but say, "One day you want to have nothing to do with me and then..." H kept saying, " I really don't know why, I really don't know why"
I told him I had to go, and H was just standing there watching me putting on shoes etc... so I smiled and said "bye, see you later"


Painter,

Thans for the input! Unfortunately we are not really on "having lunch together randomely" terms, so I couldn't have said that, but I told him I just figured (that he is not working) because he only had one pair of work clothes etc.


LMS,

Wow, 14K run is great! I really admire you!
But I know sooooo much about GALing and still feel empty. I force myself to do stuff, which could be fun and distracting to some extent, but I get very sad and depressed all of a sudden too. My IC told me to fake it until make it.
Even yesterday, in the middle of the rough weekend, I didn't feel like it, but still took the kids out to do some fun stuff. On the drive home, I cried ( for me, I get hit by sadness during driving a lot) but I still think it was better than sitting at home. I also think H will notice your change, maybe slower than you would like, but he still will.
I think nothing wil take away the pain. Though all the vets here say it will get better with time. It might be true. I don't know yet. TBH, I don't even know if I want to be ok without my H. I'm not there yet.
I wish we could have a glass of wine together!!

twinmom,

Thank you! I have free consultation scheduled with L this week, so I will make sure to ask about these arrangements too. I did ask SIL but she was busy this weekend.

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, I think it was fair enough to call him out on the 'working' thing. And at least he admitted it, which is good. For sure he sounds pretty confused and pretty bothered about what you may be doing and who with.

As you say, the GAL can feel somewhat forced at times. But on balance it is a good thing for you. I have had those feelings of sudden emptiness during GAL. Equally I have had some great moments and met some lovely people. It is well worth the effort, not only for you, but it is clearly impacting on your H which is no bad thing.

The message you are showing him is that you have no intention of putting your own life on hold while he chooses to conduct a R with a third party. And that's a good, self-respecting attitude to have. I also think you are doing well to resist with the hugs etc and just leave. The message? You don't get to have us both matey. I respect myself too much for that.

Keep it up Anna. As you say, it is tough. But this was never going to be otherwise. I think you are doing well, and the general direction of travel is a good one. That's as much as you can hope for just now I think.

Take care xx

[Starsky309]

The message you are showing him is that you have no intention of putting your own life on hold while he chooses to conduct a R with a third party. And that's a good, self-respecting attitude to have. I also think you are doing well to resist with the hugs etc and just leave. The message? You don't get to have us both matey. I respect myself too much for that.

I agree. Great job, Anna!


Starsky

[Anna25]

Thanks Sotto,
This morning was the same interaction again. H seemed tired & miserable, gave me hugs and wouldn't want to let me go. I asked H what he is doing and he said he doesn't know. I kept saying I really have to go.

I can kind of tell that he is lingering a little more, rather than going straight to another room without saying anything or not even looking at me. H asked me how my back is etc. (my D3 apparently told him that it is hurting)
I try not to read too much into it, but it is hard to go back and forth between his moods...

[Anna25]

Thank you Starsky
It means a lot coming from a vet like you!

[twinmom]

Anna a parenting plan doesn't have to be a legal document done by the court... just on paper agreement between the two of you, makes it more "set" and shows H you don't play. ....

[Anna25]

Do you think it's ok to actually tell H that I would love to be intimate with him again when time is right but I have too much self-respect to do that now, or that he just can't have both worlds, something to that effect?
I'm just getting frustrated that we have the same exchange every morning...

[mvgfwd2]

I think that is perfectly acceptable. Just make it clear what you need to get there. Like proof the A is over and re-commitment to work on the M (these would be mine, you need to pick your boundary). I would think H could accept your need to be in an exclusive relationship (it's the foundation of marriage for god's sake!!).

[Sotto]

My issue is with the 'when the time is right' part, because I think that sounds as though you are 'waiting' for this to resolve. I think the message you want to give is - whilst you remain involved (in whatever way) with her, you and I won't have a relationship. We will coparent and that will be all.

Ways of handling 'it' that I have read on this board include things like:

Please don't do that. It isn't appropriate given the state of our marriage right now.

No - whilst you are involved with someone else, I don't feel like being romantic with you.

Please stop that. I'm not willing to be with you that way while there's a third person in our relationship.

I think the important parts are the boundary setting and the clear message why. I don't think you need to add the reassurance parts. You can say all of the above firmly and pleasantly of course..

[Starsky309]

What Sotto said.


Starsky

[Anna25]

Thanks mvgfwd, Sotto and Starsky.
I did tell him this morning that I don't want this when he has someone else. He stopped what he was doing, but didn't really say anything.

I went to see L. Turns out I don't really have a lot of choices. Since H and I make about the same money and H takes care of the kids as well, there is not much I get from him. That is even for legal S or D. The only thing I learned was that the date of the separation could be any day (I'm thinking BD), we don't have to be physically separated if we have to go that route to divide assets and debts.
L said even if H just takes off and leaves everything for me to take care of, there is not much I can do. If H doesn't take care of the kids, of course I get child support, but because we make the same money, it's not going to be a lot...


I think I'll have to have a talk with H about finances once again, this time with all the expenses and numbers listed for him to see. Since I have been doing all the bill payment, I don't think H really understands I am not really bluffing about having no money, and losing a house is going to be a reality if he continues.

[Anna25]

Journaling...

I gave H a list of expenses and told him that it's getting really serious. H agreed he does not want anything to happen to the house either(like selling or renting out) and that he is going to be more conscious about spending.
I know his promises don't mean anything, but if H doesn't want to contribute money,there is not much I can do. My IC suggested that being a little firm about finances with H might wake him up a little bit of his "adult/responsible" part...I hope.

This morning H seemed a little bit friendly/chatty.
Kids found a fortune cookie and asked H to open it for them. when H opened it, he asked D3 to bring the little fortune paper strip to me. It says " You are a thoughtful and considerate person" (not sure how this is a fortune-telling!)but I took it as a nice gesture??

H even said a little joke, which I don't really recall him saying for the past 1.5 months and said "I'll see you" with eye contact. I'm not saying any of these are a game changer, but I just needed to find some good things as pick-me-up on this Friday morning...

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, you could always get a further legal opinion if you are unsure about the first L you saw. It does sound as though your H may need a reality check about finances. But it is a tightrope between you being seen as an authority figure, and needing to protect your interests. I don't know the answer there - but creating as much security as possible for you and your kids is paramount. Hopefully that will be in the same house. But if your H truly wants to S, and if your house were relatively expensive for example, moving may become a reality - I don't know.

Anyway, it sounds as though you are doing well - engaging with some difficult reality - and managing to DB at the same time. Are you still extending yourself with GAL too?

[Anna25]

Weekend is a little tough when H doesn't have to come home to watch the kids, so he might skip coming home. I really don't know if he does or doesn't. Me still wanting to see him even for 5 min is pathetic, I know.

H told me last night that he will do an overnight camp at nearby desert with guys this week because he gets the rare same day off with his friends. I told him to have fun, and he told me to be mad.
I don't know if OW is also going. H seems to feel bad, so maybe, or just feels guilty that he has his fun and I'm not even mad.

[Anna25]

Hi Sotto,
We live in a state where everything is 50/50 and no fault. Of course we can decide otherwise if we agree, but by law there is not much force for H to pay for anything to me if he decides to quit being in the family. But yes, second opinion is always a good thing.

Yes I've been GALing mostly with kids on the weekend and by myself during the week when H can watch the kids. However, it is still forced and I'm doing that more so H will notice than for myself. It's hard to get out of that mentality...

[Painter]

It sounds like you very much need to start building a support network focused on child care. How about making a list of resources you have and resources you need?

- Family
- Friends
- Mother's groups (trade with someone who works days or weekends?)
- Live-in child care? An au-pair?
- Professional child care options

Just tossing out some ideas...

[Anna25]

Hi Painter,

Thanks for the suggestions. The issue is I'm a foreigner here and I don't have any of my family here, only in-laws. The other issue is a budget of course...

But I'm more concerned about kids stability. Especially my older one (D3) She is definitely sensing that something is up and noticing H's increased absense. Of course kids don't know exactly what is going on, but I know they feel anxiety.
This week when I went to my class at night, SIL watched them because H had to work. An old me would have cancelled the class, but I went this time. But when I picked them up, both of kids started crying and I felt so bad for them. They need me now more than ever since they feel things are not quite right.

So how does everyone handle GALing and parenting? I'm very torn about this right now...

[Anna25]

Last night H came home and basically he forced me to have S. I asked him to stop verbally and physically, but of course I'm no match physically .
Right after, H started apologizing profusely.

H was in such a pain. He said he is so exhausted sleeping in a car every day, feels so bad when he makes me late in the morning, when he just sees me feeling like he ruined my life. Said he doesn't know where he belongs, but not here (at home) and that he has no guts to leave me so I have to.

He told me he just wanted to get in the car and drive away, away from everything. Actually H did his solo trip (with our dog) last year just driving up the coast and camping. He said he wanted to do that but he is too broke, that he has his family to take care of.

I can see his depression is severe. How can he help himself? I know I can't talk him into getting help, but what else can I do?
Is that said trip going to help him a little? I know it's not going to cure anthning right away, but do you think it will help him to be away from us even for a week, to break out his thoughts and life patterns he is trapped in right now?
Financially it's hard, but if it really helps him, I could help a little. Or am I being too nice to acommodate that??

[Sotto]

Anna, I am sorry to hear what happened. That must have been a frightening experience for you. Do you propose to do anything about him forcing you to have non-consensual S?

From what you post, your H sounds to be in a poor state just now. It sounds more like a life crisis than just an A in my view. What age is your H?

I don't know what to suggest really. I think he needs to find the will to help himself within himself. You could tell him you are concerned that he seems so low, and ask him if he wants to make an appt to see his Dr. perhaps?

In terms of the trip, who knows if it will help. You could suggest that you would be willing to help him if he thinks it may help. Of course, it could always end up with OW somehow involved and then you may feel aggrieved to have helped.

I think I tend towards keeping boundaries intact, but offering a little more in terms of friendship and support. Not loads more - but a little more, as you are suggesting above.

But I'm no vet Anna, and perhaps someone with more experience will stop by.

Take care xx

[Anna25]

Sotto,

It is indeed his life in crisis. He is 35, but we married young, so we have been married for 12 years this year. We didn't start having kids until a few years ago, but I think he might feel missed out of things he could have done when he was younger/single.
My IC also told me OW is just a by-product of his crisis, that might be true. He was low and she was there.

I think I will suggest that I could help him a little with a condition of him trying to save money prior to the trip as well(less outing etc) and that this is going to be his solo trip without OW involved. He should also ask for his parents to watch the kids during the day. (That's what we did for his last trip)

It is frustrating and painful to see the loved one suffering, and you can not do much...

[mvgfwd2]

What you just described sounds like a S assault. I would suggest dealing with that before anything else. Forget his problems, he has crossed a very serious line that you can't just sweep away. It shows complete lack of respect for you as a person, a wife, and mother. Stop protecting him from his behavior it will only bring worse behavior. You need to take action to protect yourself, and your children, right away. Bring his family up to speed and get their assistance to deal with his behavior. it is far beyond an A now, this is extremely serious.

[WhyUs]

S assault is serious. At this point I would caution how you handle it. This is the father of your children and husband of 19yrs. Bringing family members into this would most likely be a disaster. I definately recommend setting clear boundaries with him. Do not put yourself in that position again. This is to protect you and him from his actions.

Sorry you had to go through that. If you set boundaries and make it clear to him that what he did is unacceptable and he does not respect your boundaries it will be time to take more drastic measures.

[Painter]

Last night H came home and basically he forced me to have S. I asked him to stop verbally and physically, but of course I'm no match physically .
Right after, H started apologizing profusely.

H was in such a pain. He said he is so exhausted sleeping in a car every day, feels so bad when he makes me late in the morning, when he just sees me feeling like he ruined my life. Said he doesn't know where he belongs, but not here (at home) and that he has no guts to leave me so I have to.

He told me he just wanted to get in the car and drive away, away from everything. Actually H did his solo trip (with our dog) last year just driving up the coast and camping. He said he wanted to do that but he is too broke, that he has his family to take care of.

I can see his depression is severe. How can he help himself? I know I can't talk him into getting help, but what else can I do?
Is that said trip going to help him a little? I know it's not going to cure anthning right away, but do you think it will help him to be away from us even for a week, to break out his thoughts and life patterns he is trapped in right now?
Financially it's hard, but if it really helps him, I could help a little. Or am I being too nice to acommodate that??

Only you can say if you feel this was rape or not. I also think that you need to focus on this boundary and not even consider doing anything to enable his behavior. The only thing he should be doing, is seek intensive counseling.

I hope H doesn't think that he can take advantage of your vulnerable position with no family to protect you here. I know what it feels like to be trapped in a foreign country...

[Anna25]

Thank you everyone for your input.
I really appreciate all of you taking time to read my posts and write to me.

Was it a rape? I don't think I can say that comfortably, not because I agreed with him, but because he is still my H... I know he is not acting/treating me like H, but still, I don't know....
From going forward, I'm not sure exactly what kind of protective measures I can take? H knows I didn't want it and H also regretted it, but he still comes around the house.
SIL knows about his issues with alcohol and possible depression because I asked for her help before when he was late, but not about OW. I guess she also asked H if he needs help in anything, but he said he is fine.

This morning H seemed to be in a bad mood. I asked him if he feels depressed and he flat out denied it, he seemed offended by my comment. I told him I'm just concerned but he said he is just fine.
Personally I have never had clinical depression, but the conv. I had the other night with H definitely felt like he has some issues, doesn't it?

Honestly I just feel exhausted. Too tired to go up and down with his mood and actions, too tired to think about kids and myself security and finances, too tired to have to think about what to do and say every single day, too tired to be always the responsible one.
I know I shouldn't say that but I wish I could be the one who go crazy. Sorry, it's just overwhelming. I thought we were happy until just a few months ago. How did my life get into this mess...

[mvgfwd2]

Forget talking about boundaries. He just showed you what he thought of your boundary. I'm feel you need to have someone to knock some sense into H. And that won't be you. No way I would let someone use force on me without a swift and stern response. Anything less is just asking for it to happen again. It's time for action not talk.

[Anna25]

mvgfwd,
Who do you think can/should talk to him?
H just texted me saying he woke up late from a nap with S1 and 30min late for picking up D3 from her school. What has he become?
I'm just so lost right now.

[mvgfwd2]

A male that H would not ignore. A mutual friend you would trust to defend you. His father. If you are uncomfortable with all the details just leave that you are afraid he will abuse you and explain his erratic behavior. But you need someone to let him know any type of abuse will not be tolerated.

[Sotto]

I agree about the swift and sure boundary. I'm concerned about what happened Anna. Your H behaved abusively towards you. Has he ever been that way before? In a sexual or physical sense? What happened was an act of anger and control - those things are normally what non-consensual S is about.

I'm not sure about getting a 3rd party male involved though. If you feel able, you could let him know that what happened wasn't acceptable. That you don't want to ML to him when he is not 'in' the M and is focused on someone else. That you were unable to stop his advances and it was frightening. That you need to feel safe with him in order for things to remain as they are. Should you not feel safe with him again, you will take steps to ensure your safety.

Hope you're doing okay, and I do think it is important to recognise the severity of what happened and avoid any potential escalation. I worry that if your H is both angry and has a perceived loss of control, there could be further incidences of this.

Take care xx

[Anna25]

H was never violent or abusive physically or sexually. nor had anger issues. I have never been afraid of H that way. I think it was mostly driven by sexual frustration and him being influenced by alcohol was another factor. But of corse, the fact is that he disrespected me greatly.

I will see SIL tonight. I think I will tell her about OW. I know I can trust her as she has always been supportive of me with issues regarding H. I just need to talk to someone. I'm not sure if there is anyone H would listen to at this point, so I will hold off bringing someone else to talk to him just now. I will talk to SIL about that too if she thinks maybe FIL is a good candidate. FIL had issues with alcohol long time ago according to MIL. Both H and SIL did not remember him that way though.

After that I might have a chance to talk to H.
This morning H totally ignored me. I don't know how he is going to be tonight.
Aside from being abusive towards me, I'm upset about him being not dependable when it comes to kids now. Kids shouldn't have to wonder where their dad is, they shouldn't worry about if their dad is going to show up as he is supposed to. D3 tells me she loves me so much so many times everyday lately. It breaks my heart thinking about her motivation to do that, maybe she is trying to comfort me (though I rarely show how sad I am to them) or she is afraid being abandoned.

Am I being too nice?
I guess I'm being really bad at boundaries and how to communicate/enforce them.
How can I earn his respect without arguing or being hostile when I have to convey something he wouldn't like?

[mvgfwd2]

Well, at least get some pepper spray and know how to use it. Just in case.

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, I'm just checking in to say Hello and to see how you have been doing. I hope things have settled down a little for you. Do post when you get chance and let us know how things are going my friend.

Take care xx

[Anna25]

Not much has happened.
SIL canceled our meeting last week since FIL had a fall and injured himself that evening.
We had a small family reunion on the weekend, but H was working so SIL just invited me and kids. We had a good time. It's kind of weird, but I always get along very well with H's family and when I'm there, it feels surreal that H and I have this problem at home.
H's been ok with me. He has been calm and friendly. He is usually more friendly in the morning than at night, I don't know why. He rarely says anything at night even if I see him.

mvgfwd,
Good idea! I actually have one and I never thought I would use it for my H, but just show him what I have is good.

Sotto,
Thank you for checking on me as always. I just feel so tired sometimes and wonder how long we will do this, but I know I should just think about getting by today and tomorrow.

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, I'm sorry to hear about your FIL. I hope he's doing okay after his fall. It's good that you get along well with SIL and that H has been okay with you.

Something will lie behind his quietness at night and it is probably to do with R with OW. Perhaps he is contrite in the mornings, but in the evenings building up to seeing OW and the silence is part of that. Best not to wonder too much or read anything into that.....though I know I just tried to!

I also thing the pepper spray is a good idea. I wouldn't tell your H about it though - just use it if you need to stop him in his tracks!

I can understand your tiredness and you already know that wondering how long this will go on won't serve you well. As you wisely say, just focus on today and tomorrow and the rest will unfold in time as all sitches do. Now, tell us what you are doing by way of self-care and GAL just now my friend...

xx

[Ggrass]

Last night H came home and basically he forced me to have S. I asked him to stop verbally and physically, but of course I'm no match physically .
Right after, H started apologizing profusely.

H was in such a pain. He said he is so exhausted sleeping in a car every day, feels so bad when he makes me late in the morning, when he just sees me feeling like he ruined my life. Said he doesn't know where he belongs, but not here (at home) and that he has no guts to leave me so I have to.

He told me he just wanted to get in the car and drive away, away from everything. Actually H did his solo trip (with our dog) last year just driving up the coast and camping. He said he wanted to do that but he is too broke, that he has his family to take care of.

I can see his depression is severe. How can he help himself? I know I can't talk him into getting help, but what else can I do?
Is that said trip going to help him a little? I know it's not going to cure anthning right away, but do you think it will help him to be away from us even for a week, to break out his thoughts and life patterns he is trapped in right now?
Financially it's hard, but if it really helps him, I could help a little. Or am I being too nice to acommodate that??

This was my issue, except I was unable to speak at the time I was so numb and humiliated he didn't understand what he had done and why it was wrong. It was blamed on me and I was humiliated again in a letter which re wrote the events.

Sorry it is rape and abuse.

You need to get out, he already has the ow lined up and his treatment of you will only get worse.

Please take this warning from one who has walked in your shoes. Please please please make sure you are safe.

[mvgfwd2]

Ggrass, that was my first reaction too. Take that event serious and take action to prevent another one. Boundaries only mean something if the other person doesn't resort to using physical force. Clearly, he showed that boundaries are meaningless to him to the point he would use force to get what he wanted. The only response that would have any meaning is swift response that would adequately make H not want to do that ever again. For me it would have been either legal action and arrest or humiliation in front of his family where they would provide protection. But I know it is hard to want to take such actions against someone you hope to reconcile with someday. Possibly using peppers pray next before escalation to extreme measures is adequate. I hope so for her safety and that of her children.

[Ggrass]

I think she needs strong boundaries like space.

No ow as well. Separating and being nc is for you, in this case it will offer pyscial safey. In au an avo (violence order) in place will mean police should respond in a timely manner should she need.

Pepper spray is good, but he could use it on her. If he thinks there is nothing wrong with rape and she's Making excuses for the behaivours this is serriously unhealthy and bordering on extreme.

Her h needs help, those issues cannot be fixed in 5min. The work starts by the w standing up from being the door mat, she needs to change her part. That starts now.

If her h truely wants r, when he's sorted his issues nothing will stop him. Wise advice
given by the vets on this board.

I have been of the board locked out by my own hand, but if you want moral support and you will need it, I will take time out and come by. Lots.

To listen to say this ain't your fault you don't need to be raped as he us your h.

[Ggrass]

One woman every week is killed by her h.

I was friends with a girl who's death was odd. People suspect her h, she became a statistic. This lady has a one year old, she is in the biggest at risk group.

Sexual assault is one of the lead up behaivours to murder. It's why I did end up leaving, slow 4 year escalation....., leading to violence.

My xh2 even told me exactly what he had done to his xw1, he repeated that whole pattern on me. At the time he revealed xw1 treatment he told me it was her being crazee and nasty. Made up rummors, I excused him.

This is serrious it needs to be delt with serrious, and db says you cannot db abuse totally. Mwd, advises not to stay under those circumstances. So do most other popular pych like dr phill. Like your gp.

Make a plan, a considered thoughtful plan. Get help, people will help. Find it you can do it.

[Anna25]

Thank you everyone for your concern.

Sotto
I've been continuing my classes, working out and meetups with other moms. Occasional lunch/dinner with friends, but not too often due to budget issues. Sometimes I feel bad for kids to be absent at night but my IC also told me that it is ok as long as kids know I'll be back.
I'm also enjoying cooking, this is what I loved before.
I make D3's lunch once a week for her school and people compliment me for my little creation every week (I make it really cute like edible arts) which makes me feel good.

Ggrass,
Thank you so much for your concern and I'm sorry you have been through the same before. Since the incident he seems to take it to heart and keeps his hands to hiimself.
Physical separation for me leaving or him leaving is not possible at this moment for financial reasons. I know it's not ideal, but that is the reality. I/He would have left two months ago, but when you have two little toddlers, things get much more complexed.
I'm really sorry if I sound like I don't take it seriously, that is not my intention. I do truely appreciate your concern.

mvgfwd,
Thank you for your advise as always. As you say, I am not ready for thouse extreme measures yet to be honest. Anything I say would sound like another excuse, I know....


H started coming home earlier (compared to him coming home in the morning) and leaving later (if he is home for kids)since the incident and he came straight after work last night and stayed all night on the couch, which was the first time since BD.
Of course there is no way for me to know exactly what kind of adjustment he is trying to make or his intetions. Either cutting down his alcohol, saving money, or getting more sleep is good for his mental and physical health. Good for my peace of mind for not worring about being late or all kinds of troubles he might get us in.

[Ggrass]

Anna, I don't think you should leave.

He should due to his actions. Violence occurs in cycles..

Build up with stress, out burst then honeymoon while stress builds then trigger event.

I should have left when he treatened to walk of leave me over seas.
I should have left when my son was assaulted, but he was very sorry and played by the rules I set.

After that he verbally asullted me many times, pyscially kicking me all night leaving light bruising, I should have left then.

I should have left, when he stalked me and got others to keep tabs on me at work and out.

I should have left when next he sexually assaulted me.

Later spat on me, after he blamed me for the ow. That's when I left and went nc. After 8mo and many incidents.

As many say in these boards once there is op, it gets way worse before it gets better.

Anna put your self and your child first.

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, I'm just checking in to see how you are doing my friend. Do post and let us know how things are going when you get chance...

Take care xx

[Anna25]

Took a little break form this site.
Reading other people's stories and writing my own do definitely help, but sometimes it is overwhelming.

I feel very sad.
I guess after the first shock passed, it's taking a toll on me. Evey little thing reminds me of good times, what we did, where we went etc...I know it's not doing any good to me, but I can't help it. Fortunately I've been doing that only to myself and not in front of H.
Then I tell myself I do not want to give up. I'm going back and forth between hopeless to hopeful.

This week I realized I really need to put more effort to distance/detach myself from H. I have been doing that half-heartedly and probably H could see that. I have not followed him around the house physically, but I have been doing that mentally if you know what I mean...
I need to stop that.

It's been two months and I'm exhausted. But now is not the time to fall into a slump. Stay focused.

[Ggrass]

It's ok to want it to work, but getting him to give up the ow is the first step.

To have both is just cake eating and to loose you is a show of ur worth.

Ask your self, why would h give up ow, if anna is at home and prepared to put up with have s?

Why should he change if he doesn't have to?

The burning questions tho you need to be thinking about is how to protect Anna. Be creative there are solutions.i don't know what they are for you to make suggestions but get L advice get woman's shelter advice educate yourself on what help there is.

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, I think you are right in your last couple of paragraphs. See, I already know you are a bright cookie!! It is true that when we do something 'for them' rather than 'for us' - we are only half way there. Though it is good progress not to be following him around the house.

I agree that effort being put into distance and detaching will be effort in the right direction. So, what specifically are you going to do to achieve this in coming weeks?

Reading your post does make me remember why GAL for ourselves is so important. Until we do, our H and our sitch remain the centre of our worlds. We orbit around them. But the thing is, remaining attached to them (whilst they are in the place they are) isn't healthy for us.

What is healthy for us is to realise that they have their life and we have ours. They will continue on their path until they want to do otherwise. And we will continue on ours separate to them for now, and until or unless anything significant changes.

I can remember that exhaustion and looking after yourself is important. Eating well, takind some exercise, a nice bath, reading your book, meditating, music.....finding whatever brings you some relief and building it into your life. There will come a time when you look back on your strength and perseverence during this difficult period and you will feel a deep sense of satisfaction for the character you have shown.

Take care my friend xx

[Anna25]

H has been very distant for the last few weeks. We barely see each other or say anything, even though he does come around. So that makes it a little easier for me to try to detach myself.

This weekend was our marriage anniversary, which was not addressed between us, but H was off and home until midnight that day somehow. I just went to do stuff with my kids.
I am learning to have no expectations.

The other day MIL and FIL were at our house watching the kids due to H's irregular work schedule. H did not come home all night until late morning, so that red-flagged them. MIL asked me what is happening. I told her he did not want to come home and stayed only for kids. I didn't disclose the details of OW, but told them about drinking and financial issues. They said they will talk to H. SIL is supposed to fill me in how it went (since I have a little language barrier with MIL) this week, but obviously nothing much because I see no difference in H.

I am trying to stay on track with exercise, my classes, meetups and so on. Yesterday I cleaned the whole house really well, which made me feel better since I sometimes have not had energy to tidy up and I knew I didn't like it. I hope I will keep this up too.

My kids give me strength. Though it is difficult sometimes to take care of two toddlers, they are full of life and hope. They make me laugh. I feel so bad and sad when I think of the possibility of broken family, but for now, I do what I can do today.

[MrBond]

Any reason why you didn't tell them about the OW?

[JksD]

Anna, I am also curious why you didn't tell them about the OW.

Your in laws sound like they would be on your side.

For my sitch, the ex in laws knew about OW. According to the X, they loved her. According to the ex fil, the OW was really cheerful. In short, they knew about her and they gave her approval!!! Although it seemed that the X painted an entirely diff pic of our sitch to the fil and the fil now wants us to patch back, knowing that they liked her really is a major obstacle in any future R.

[Anna25]

The reason I didn't tell MIL about OW is because I didn't have that much time as I had to go get ready and leave for work. Also as I mentioned, there is a little language barrier between us to discuss complicated matters on our own.
I will see SIL this week and I am ready to tell her about OW. We will probably discuss if we should tell his parents or not.

I know FIL will be on my side. They are the kind of people who would not approve of any extra marital affair regardless of the reason. Also my H is not a very open person to his family, so I doubt he will introduce/talk about OW to his family any time soon.

[JksD]

Ic.

Yes, I think it is prudent to just ask your SIL for her advice. Michele's advice is to reveal the A to those who are pro-marriage and who will not stand in your way of reconciliation. Your SIL would probably be in a better position to advise you on your next step.

[Anna25]

So I went to talk to sister in law.
She said she will talk to H. Though we don't think H will be talked into doing anything right now, SIL wanted to let him know what she thinks, so she did. (I was no there)

SIL told H that OW will not be welcomed into the family no matter what happens. H told her it's not OW's fault that our marriage had problems, but SIL made it clear that OW knowingly pursuing married man is wrong and she wants to have nothing to do with that. She told him she does not accept H's dealing with marriage problem by going off with someone else either.
SIL also told H that H has to tell their parents. Of course H started mumbling all the excuses and he will get to it sometime.
SIL told H if he has a problem, identify what it is and think about what he can do, because otherwise, even away from this marriage, even with somebody else, that problem will follow you. H's response was, he is not trying to solve it. H told her the reason he has not told any of his family is because he is not looking for anyone's advise, because he is not trying to solve anything.

I'm not saying our marriage was perfect, but to me, his perception of our troubled marriage (that he has not had feeling left for me for a while) is rewriting a history.

The other day I overheard him talking to OW in the shower. I could not make out much, but did not sound like a fun conversation. H sounded like he was trying to appease her. My first reaction was to tell him to get out of my house if he wants to talk to her, but I decided to let them have their problems and I would be pleasant and just minding my own business. It hurts how disrespectful these two are, but OW must not be feeling happy either him still staying at home, regardless whatever H tells her. So I figured there is no reason for me to show them I feel hurt and threatened.

It is discouraging though to know that H is determined not to work on our M/R...

[mvgfwd2]

Your SIL did the right thing. Did you tell her about the assault? You should document that somehow or with someone. You never know where things like that may go. Make sure you know your options if things go bad. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, good to hear from you. I'm glad to hear you told SIL and that she was supportive. Family pressure may or may not help in these situations - but it is good for you to know that SIL has supported you and voiced her concerns. It sounds as though your H was pretty unreceptive to the feedback - but I do think it is a little reality breaking into the fantasy.

You see, it is one thing to have forbidden, exciting contact with someone. That is all rather thrilling. However, that translating into a workable relationship - where you have Sunday lunch with the family and everyone gets along - well, that's quite another matter. It sounds as though things aren't too great with OW anyway. I think that is also pretty common as time goes on. However, there may well be some splitting up and reconciling going on with him and OW - that's happened many times in my sitch.

I hope you are managing to keep your own head above water, focus on you and the kids, and also carry on with some GAL? I start the divorce recovery workshop tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to meeting some other folk who have had similar experiences.

Take care & keep posting xx

[Anna25]

I have separated my phone line to my own account, and I asked him to pay for his own car, his own car's registration, and his own credit card he is charging his date expenses.

I could have done all this before, but I guess now I got pushed enough after seeing all these irresponsible charges by him while we were struggling to pay bills at home.
At first H thought I did all this to punish him, giving all the bills at the same time purposefully. He said he hated me for that.
I explained to him it happened to be at the same time, but that is not my intention. For example, I was going to pay for the credit card bill, until I saw he is charging his personal expenses on it. I told him I am sorry if he feels that way, but I never lie to him or intentionally hurt him, that I wish anything bad for him, which is really true. I told him me and kids are just trying to survive.
He said he was sorry that he thought that way, and he doesn't hate me. He said he knows this is all his doing, and I have just sat here and taken it, which is not right.

He also mentioned that he is hoping to get another job within this month and move out by new year. Again I told him I'm sorry to hear that but I will respect his decision.

It hurts to be made so clear that he can not wait to get away and he sees no possible future with me right now. Verbally he is usually polite, and he said he respects me and kids, but his actions of course say otherwise by not providing enough money or communication with OW in our house.

My IC asked me today when it is enough for me. I honestly don't know the answer. I told her I think I will know when it is. Will I?

[Anna25]

mvgfwd,

No I have not told her in details, but I told her that he is coming on to me while I said no. However, H seemed to be really done with me and he has no physical contact with me at all.

Sotto,

It is hard to focus on myself sometimes when I discover more lies and betrayal. I try to take it one day at a time, one thing in front of me at a time. I surely have stronger bond with my kids and I am truly grateful for them.

How was your workshop? I hope you have gained helpful insight with people in the similar situation. We do need help from each other. Sometimes, it feels like I am the only one in so much pain. Sometimes, I feel like I am willing to swap anyone else's crappy day for my life right now.

[Anna25]

Last night H came in and took my hand, saying "I'm sorry I was upset on the phone,(since yesterday's bill-related conversation was via text) I was mean, but I know you are doing everything for the kids"
I thanked him and we chatted a bit about the house.

It's good to know that he still has conscious. Though it seems like most of the time, his adolescent self-absorbed part is winning right now...

[Anna25]

Sometimes it feels like I should really ask him to leave. I know he doesn't have a place or can't afford one now, but that is not for me to worry?
He is home a little more often/longer lately, but there is not much interaction. He usually sleeping/lying down even when kids are up, or locks himself in the room at night. He would not eat with us, he would not sit in the same room with us, so what is the point? He probably has really nowhere to go when he is with us, like OW working or something.

Then again, I have always initiated and made all the decisions and arrangement for him/us, from finances to vacations. I don't feel like doing that for him now. If I kick him out, he can say "I" kicked him out.

Is separation never a good thing? I know there are both people who say yes and no. In a way I feel like H should experience what a life would be with OW/without house and family, but also I am scared too once he is out, he won't be back...

It's been 3 months already me being nice and cheerful minding my own business, but we are not getting closer obviously.

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, it's difficult to say whether separation might help. I left as soon as my H disclosed his A and clearly wanted to continue with it. Initially I just intended to stay away for a few days to clear my head - but as it turned out he was so confused/unwilling to give up OW, I never returned. But our sitch is different - we don't have kids together and it has been best for me to move close to family. That may not have been the best thing for my sitch, but it has certainly done me some good.

I always think in-house S's are the hardest as the cause of your pain is right there under your nose. If you want to ask him to leave, of course it's your choice. I just try and make decisions I can live with in the longer term. In my sitch, I wouldn't agree to file for D and that has been important to me. For me, if H wanted to end our M, he would need to be the one to do that.

Only thing I would say is I wouldn't S in order that 'H should experience X or Y.' I would only S for your own wellbeing and peace of mind. If you need to S in order to get through this, then suggest a S I would say. But if you are willing to carry on as you are, then do so. I have learned that there really seems to be little you can do once the A 'catches light' - the fire will spread until/unless it dies out. And most do die out of course, although it does take time. The best you can do is look after yourself and the kids - setting appropriate boundaries for your own protection and wellbeing.

Are you managing to GAL, and extend yourself, meet some new people and new activities??

[Anna25]

Sotto, you are right about doing things for me, not to manupilate/punish H. It shows how much I still think about things with H in the center, not myself.
I try hard to detach, but it is so difficult. Despite all the wrongdoing, I still hoplessly love H. Why? I don't know.
One moment I feel like I can concentrate on myself & kids, but other moments I just slip off the course.
How did you learn to detach?

I am meeting new people and going to new places with/without kids. I realized there are a lot of things I/kids were missing out because of my fear/uncomfortableness. I am still in the process, but I am slowly getting out of my comfort zone.

[Sotto]

Funnily enough I just posted about still feeling somewhat attached in my own thread (in MLC.) I think time and GAL are big factors. I also think that often the awful things that WAS do and the associated pain forces some detachment too. You realise that you cannot stay attached 'to that' and self-preservation kicks in.

Good for you with the new people and places. I would certainly carry on with that. I also confronted some of my own (similar) fears. I have a policy of 'accept all invites' now and I'm more upfront about inviting others to do things too - I'm putting myself 'in the arena' more (have you read Brene Brown or seen her TED talks?)

TBH, I think stuff like you describe above is what it is all about and I think the progress you make there will serve you well your whole life. Whatever your H may be doing. I do understand still feeling love for your H. But I think the nature of that love has to change in our sitches. For me, loving my H has become different to 'being with' him. The love doesn't really have conditions - but the being with him does. And that is important I think.

You're doing really well Anna....remember, it is still early days and plenty of time and progress to make xx

[Anna25]

Sotto, I read your post on your thread.
Your words are so wise, strong and honest. I admire your strength to admit what you are truly feeling. I think I am in denial of the situation I am in, and I am denying that I am in denial if that makes sense ;-), because my life just went upside down on BD, I thought I had everything until 3 months ago and believed I knew who I would have for the rest of my life.

I so agree with you about the anticipation of A's outcome. I too think it will not work out in the long run, in the real life...or is it just a false hope I'm clinging to? Am I willing to wait it out? How much can I person take?

Today I feel a lot of anger, towards H and OW. How disrespectful and irresponsible they are. How much pain and confusion they are causing to people who love and trusted H. I do not want to act on emotions, so I am just writing it out and saying out loud in the car by myself... but it is very tough to control such hurt and humiliation.

[Anna25]

Friday morning H didn't get home for kids so that I can go to work. I would have dropped them off at SIL, but I just called work and took the kids out to the zoo. I kept my phone off because I really didn't want to talk to H. I saw H was calling and texting later, apologizing H was late because he got too drunk the night before and how he hasn't been drinking all week and it won't happen again blah blah blah..... I just didn't reply. H went to work later and didn't call or text again all weekend to even check in for kids. I just wonder if he is not even worried about his kids whereabouts??

Then H hasn't been home all weekend. H hadn't been home all night during the week either,so I'm sure he is staying with OW. The last time I heard, OW is sharing a room with someone else, but maybe that person is moved out or something.
But H hasn't told me anything about him moving out, all his stuff is here and so is his dog( I asked him to take it if he moves out) I feel like throwing all his stuff out on the porch. I'm extremely sad, but mad about him thinking he can come and go at his convenience. I don't know what to say or do when H comes in Monday morning.

[mvgfwd2]

You need to act as if H is gone. Move his stuff to the garage. Fire him as the babysitter, he has failed at that repeatedly. He is coming and going at his convenience because you let him. Have a new babysitter in place as the PRIMARY babysitter, not H. If he gets home in time to take care of them, good for him, otherwise he is done as the babysitter.

[twinmom]

You need some boundaries. .. i would highly suggest a legal separation because he isn't looking out for the kids best interest in any way.

[Anna25]

So I packed up H's clothes in bags.
H has been out all night last week and when he came in the morning, he looked like he took a shower, which really stung. It's not like before, when H showed up looking like he slept in the car.
H came home tonight after work. I was not expecting him, but he saw the bags and knew what it meant right away. H said he doesn't have another place to live. I told him I had thought he definitely have one since he stayed out all night last week and all weekend. I told H I'm not doing this to punish him but for my peace of mind because I don't want him to be so obvious and disrespectful. H said he understands and he is not mad.

H also apologized again about Friday. I told him I know I can't change him and I'm not trying to, the only thing I can do is choose ( what I want to have for my life and kids') H said he came to see the kids tonight and he cares about the kids all the time. I told him I know that and I'm not trying to take them away from H because kids love him too, but right now, what H says and what he shows in action don't awl ways add up. I told him he has time, energy and money for himself to go out, go to the movies, go camping or go to Disneyland (with OW), but he has done none of it for kids lately which tells me kids are not his priority right now, it's himself. I also told him that H sits them down in front of tv so that he can text or call OW all day does not tell me H wants to be with the kids.

H told me kids don't want to be with him when I'm around (because they prefer mommy) , so I said that's not true. I told H whenever I take kids out, D3 tells me "it was fun, are we coming back next time with daddy too?"
Tonight H was more engaged with kids instead of just lying down in another room.

I said all this calmly and we didn't get in to argument, but maybe I should have stuck to the facts only....

So off he went. H said don't worry I'll have somewhere to stay. He just took clothes and one of the TVs (??)
I mean, he will still come babysit on all weekdays( neither of us can afford to hire all day sitter right now) so I will still see him and he stays out most of the nights anywys, so it might not be too much of a difference. But it feels official and I do feel sad. I'm not sure if I did the right thing. But at the same time I feel a little better knowing I stood up for myself really the first time. I think I got to show him my boundaries and I can not tolerate any more disrespect.

I'm very scared. But I really had no choice. I will just have to see how things will go.

[mvgfwd2]

Good job, be strong.

[twinmom]

Good job but in my opinion you need to set a few more boundaries. ... what days/times is he to be at the house and if it is not during that time he needs to find somewhere else to be. Also financial, get a budget / plan on paper and figure out who pays for what. I still suggest legal separation so he can't blow all $$$.... this way the $$ you are entitled to will be taken directly out of his check.

[Sotto]

Hi Anna, that sounds fair enough to me in all the circumstances. Now, I think your focus needs to be on formalising arrangements for your own surety and on encouraging him to maintain contact with the kids. Have a think about how this can best work in your and their interests. For your own peace of mind - now that he's moved out, are you happy for him having a key? What are the arrangements regarding funds? Time with the kids? and so on. I agree with Twin about a formal S agreement as you can't rely on 'goodwill' in these situations.

I understand your fear - but truly, he had gone in heart (at least for now) anyway. In the longer term, who knows? But focus on you, your family and your best interests. Be compassionate and reasonable, but firm.

This too shall pass and all will ultimately be well my friend xx

[Anna25]

Link to new thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2624290#Post2624290