I think I belong in Piecing...

[Painter]

H said yesterday it's "too hard" to try to fix our M. I asked him what he felt was too hard, specifically, but he couldn't really answer.

Maybe looking the looking internally that is required? Much easier to walk away and be mad at you. I hear you about tone!

Yes, I think you're right - he doesn't 'do' introspection.

[hopeOK]

Hope, reading your signature, I wonder if the person who is taking the initiative to repair the R can't 'afford' to feel that it's too hard, while their partner, who is asked to participate, can allow themselves to feel that.

I do feel sometimes that it's overwhelming, that H and I are just too different as individuals to make it work (it seems we have become more different as time goes by, or maybe H has stopped hiding who he really was all along), but I don't feel that the work is too hard for me - it's more that I wonder if we have the basic connection that even makes us want to be together. If I had met H today, I would probably never have wanted to pursue a relationship - our values, views and temperaments are so opposite that even the counselor wondered how on earth we ended up together.

Good job on recognizing the tone in yourself!

Yeah, I think you are right that it is probably far less likely that the person wanting to fix the R is going to feel like it is too much to fix. They have to, overall, stay more positive or they wouldn't be committed to saving the R. But for me, even though I really want this R to work for us, I do sometimes see all we have created and what huge hurdles we have to jump over to get to where we need to be. It isn't daily but it is periodically. Not sure if H feels this way... probably sometimes.

Are there any things that attracted you to him that could still be there? Are there new parts of him that you like? I would focus on those things. If you're going to stick together you have to find things you like about him. Also, you might look into doing some fun new things together. Something that you could develop into a new hobby or form of entertainment that would be something that connects you- dance lessons, kayaking, skiing, skydiving, gardening, bike riding, hiking, etc, etc. Those are random things & none may interest you both, but find something you guys haven't ever done, interests both of you, & could do together. I think it is important to do some fun things & create some happy moments in order to pave the way for the hard R work. And something new is extra special because it is something that just you two share, & are both learning about it at the same time.

[Painter]

The pessimism hits me, too, at times. When H is particularly negative, I think, why am I doing this? But I feel the alternative - D - is so much harder.

We have had issues from very early on, but we also had a lot of external stress that I thought was causing many of them. After a number of years, it's difficult to say now if the problems are personality-related or if the stressors we've experienced have wore on us to where we're now in a groove that's hard to get out of. But I found that H has traits that I'm not so crazy about and that he never showed or I got a chance to see before we got married. Anger, and a tendency to go into denial and even lie are the worst ones.

And some of the traits and behaviors I really appreciated - generosity, warmth, willingness to help, fun-loving and adventurous, engaged - are not very prevalent anymore. I have gone round after round with myself on what in my behavior may have encouraged these changes, and I know that how I reacted to the challenges we faced early on, impacted our M negatively. It has taken me time to change my behavior, but I gradually have for the last several years. I just don't know if it's too late for H to change.

I've tried to suggest to H things to do together that we both enjoy, but he wants to spend his time off on things he enjoys more. The result is that he spends most of his time off with friends, and I do my own things alone or with my friends. I just have a lot more time off than he has right now.

I feel a little more optimistic today - I've been worried that he's been keeping OW on the back burner, but I just found out she's engaged!

[Painter]

I had a horrid thought... The thing she said about her fiance on FB fits perfectly with H. And there's no other reference to the F anywhere else, he's obviously not around because she had to hire someone to cut her grass. There's no picture of him or reference to them doing anything together.

If I ask H, he'll say no either way.

He presented me with a ring while he was still married to his ex. I thought it was weird and said I would not be comfortable wearing that until they were formally divorced.

[V2pt0]

Painter, I am confused. Are you saying you are thinking the OW's fiancé might be your H??

[Painter]

That's what I was wondering. I posted in the Infidelity forum to get some ideas for how to handle this - the whole story is there.

Now I'm uncertain again... H suggested that someone OW dated before the A could be the fiance. But when I first found out about the A, he told me she hadn't been with anyone for years before H. So a clear contradiction there...

[Painter]

H and I are currently in a kind of holding pattern, but we had a brief talk last night that was interesting.

When I pull away, after we discuss separating or a future apart, or like now when H won't see the MC anymore, he seems to come after me to pull me back in again. H says he feels like the pressure is gone, like I let off, so he comes back in and reaches out to me. I told him that the reason I back off, is to protect myself emotionally, I turn off.

And that this is why many men get really surprised when a woman leaves, they thought things were great because she had stopped nagging and they were happier than ever, while she has actually shut down. He seemed very interested in this idea. I left him with it.

[hopeOK]

Yes, this is a very common pursue/distance dynamic in troubled relationships. For many years my H pursued me & the ways he pursued me pushed me further away. Then he gave up & stopped caring so much. Then the affair. And now I struggle with the pursuing role. It is very tricky to get out of, I think.

So do you feel reassured that he is not who the OW is engaged to? I hope so. That is a definite panic moment.

As far as doing stuff together... are you at all interested in what he is doing w/ his friends or is it an all guy thing? I'd say you guys definitely need to find some fun for the both of you in order to put some enjoyment back into the relationship.

[Painter]

I am 95% certain he is not the F. There will be doubt in my mind until I know who it is, or until H sends a letter to her.

He mostly does guy stuff with his friends, I enjoy some of it at times, but a lot of it is loud, fast outdoors stuff that involves drinking. We talked about it the other day (another very peaceful talk, actually), and H admitted openly that he is guilty of just wanting to do his most favorite activities on his days off, to de-stress, and not being willing to compromise in order to do something we both enjoy to spend time together. He feels that he has so little time off that he should do what he wants the most.

I find it a little sad that his favorite activity is not to spend time with me... He says he wants me to be a part of his activities, and feels a little put out that I'm not going with him. So that is where he concludes that we are just 'too different'.

To me, almost anything that he and I do together is nice and quality time, except when it involves something loud, fast and drinking...

[V2pt0]

Just checking in, Painter. Any news on the F?