Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#2603348 09/01/15 03:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
A
Abe31 Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
Hello:

I'm Abe31 and I'm going through the nastiest separation possible. I'm hoping to get some support and get re-focused on now and my future. Maybe even get back on my feet and have a plan. A little backstory:

My wife and I have always struggled financially. This put a great stress on the marriage. Even though I have a very good job and excellent skills that make me marketable it had felt, to me, that I was the only one holding the family together while my wife has chosen to avoid fiscal responsibility whenever possible.

Fast forward to the last 3-4 years and we have had good times and bad. Times of closeness and then times of broken trust. I had an EA with a married co-worker in 2011. We were both lonely and took solace in each other. But, under pressure from co-workers and my bosses that ended and she moved away. My wife accused me of having a PA and even went to a divorce attorney in Jan 2012. Then, she be began to detach.

She convinced her family to pay for her to take a summer Master's degree program. She graduated in 2014. During each summer she would be away in a nearby city and I could feel the distance. She wouldn't reply to texts, hung out with university friends and generally played games with me to make me jealous. She also vacations 3-4 times a year while leaving me behind. I haven't had a true vacation in years. We always go to visit her family. She visits Europe without me and hangs out with girlfriends.

She also has always undermined me with the kids. Trying to parent is a huge difficulty. For me, it actually worked better while my wife was gone. Kids have always respected me. Do what I ask. Yet, when my wife is in control of the household it was a daily nightmare for her to get things done. There was conflict and drama and simply getting the dishes into the dishwasher became a 60 minute debate.

My wife has also spent years undermining me with her family when she doesn't get her way or we argue. It appears that she complains to them and never tries to resolve issues with me. She says I never let her win an argument. Fast-forward to now:

On March 6th I found a bag that my wife has called the "Escape Pack". In it was paper copies of 2 years of every argument that we'd had by text, a divorce kit from a lawyer, and a journal that detailed everything my wife considered a problem in the last 8 months. The thing is, these problems were fabrications based on kernels of truth. Emotionally, my wife was off the deep end. When I sent her a text asking about it, she panicked, grabbed papers, took our son, our dog, and ran off to a neighbouring city. Within days she hit me with restraining orders. She alleged that I was abusive in any and every way possible. I am not. Other than complaining too much about my work we hadn't argued in months. She checked into a women shelter. And is now in a housing program.

After months of back and forth silliness through lawyers it appears she has finally calmed down. By silliness I mean her demanding all of our assets and full support without considering my needs or allowing time for the legal process. But now that she is calmer she is considering mediation but has rejected my offer of reconciliation.

It has been 6 months since the initial BD and leaving. I have missed all the warning signs for years. When she threatened me with divorce I thought she was bluffing. She wasn't. She was actively considering on-and-off for the last 7 years.

So, my hope? My wife continues to drop hints though social media. She is still following my lead still emotionally and is definitely dealing with depression over the relationship. The problem? I'm not allowed any direct contact. And while I have been active on social media, GAL-ing without knowing it and trying to remain positive I am feeling burnt out and depressed.

I went dark on social media and in life 9 days ago and have already seen a change again on my wife's SM. But no direct contact and no conversations are taking place. I'm hoping my lawyer gets us to mediation but that is not going to happen until September or October. Because I'm tired of the pseudo-communication and guessing from SM hints.

I am waiting for DR / KLA to show up from Amazon. I am giving myself some time and space right now. Recovering from a surgery and deciding when and if I should return to work. I am really struggling getting on with my life and letting go of the current situation.

How do you DB someone who's used the nuclear option on me? How do I get to even decent communication with someone who's lied outrageously to end the marriage? We have kids, we have a lot of life to live. And I see my wife's over-emotional reaction as her being very hurt and still attached. How do I detach without sending her off the deep end? Can she really start to see her part in this?

Help?


Me:41 W:43
D:19 S:14
M:20 T:22
BD1: Mar 6, 2015 - wife leaves with son
BD2: Mar 12, 2015 - restraining orders for 1 year
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,952
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,952
Hello Abe -

Thats a lengthy post, but Ill give a couple thoughts.

Before I do, read all of the homework. Carefully, thoroughly and repeatedly. Theres a ton of GREAT stuff in there.

Originally Posted By: Abe31
The thing is, these problems were fabrications based on kernels of truth. Emotionally, my wife was off the deep end.

After months of back and forth silliness through lawyers

And I see my wife's over-emotional reaction as her being very hurt and still attached.

First, this post feels like a lot of you pointing out her problems. You point out here that shes going "crazy" and doesnt understand the "truth". One big thing I have learned her is the following:

Her perception is her reality

What I mean is that something that you may think is silly or inconsequential or minor or whatever, could be important to her. And theres no way that you can say that its "wrong". So Id read up on the validation cheat sheet. Its a great tool!

Originally Posted By: Abe31
So, my hope? My wife continues to drop hints though social media. She is still following my lead still emotionally and is definitely dealing with depression over the relationship. The problem? I'm not allowed any direct contact. And while I have been active on social media, GAL-ing without knowing it and trying to remain positive I am feeling burnt out and depressed.

I went dark on social media and in life 9 days ago and have already seen a change again on my wife's SM. But no direct contact and no conversations are taking place. I'm hoping my lawyer gets us to mediation but that is not going to happen until September or October. Because I'm tired of the pseudo-communication and guessing from SM hints.

I would stop trying to infer things from social media. The lives and the posts and whatever that go up there are filtered. She is showing you what she wants to show you. I'd stop looking at her feed if I were you as youre only going to get confused, hurt, or both.


Originally Posted By: Abe31
How do you DB someone who's used the nuclear option on me? How do I get to even decent communication with someone who's lied outrageously to end the marriage? We have kids, we have a lot of life to live. How do I detach without sending her off the deep end? Can she really start to see her part in this?


You cant save a relationship if both people arent interested in saving it. However, just because both people arent interested NOW, doesnt mean that both people wont ALWAYS not be interested.

So, what do YOU do?
1) Read the book
2) Start working on you. Find the gaps in you that you want to improve. As a dad, as a friend, as a man. Start working on them. Detach. GAL. Take the focus off of your relationship and put it on the stuff you can control: YOU.

As for the communication, read the 37 rules, read the validation cheat sheet. Start there. Be the best co-parent you can be. Otherwise, what do you need to communicate about?

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
A
Abe31 Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
Quote:

First, this post feels like a lot of you pointing out her problems. You point out here that shes going "crazy" and doesnt understand the "truth".


Azzork:

Thanks for your reply. It was my first post and I was trying to give background. I am not fully up to speed on the do's and don'ts.

I wanted to avoid details but I'll give an example of what was in her journal:

1. One day I came home. I bike commute and usually get home around 6:30. She had cooked dinner but burned mine. She turned on the stove and forgotten while she went and did something else. To me, I laugh, I'll eat anything and she burns dinner occasionally and I find it endearing. But I remember this day I said to her, "What?! Are you trying to poison me?" and then I took my dinner and sat down and ate.

Later, when I found her journal, she had written: "Today, my husband accused me of poisoning him." That's it. That was the journal entry.

2. I bike commute and after a couple years of bike neglect I took it into the shop for repair. My bike needed about $500 in repairs. I looked at my bank account and realized we have $1100 in bills due plus $500 for my bike so I'd be $200 short until the next pay day. So, I asked my wife to borrow $200 so I could pay the entire $1600 on time.

Again, when I read her journal she had stated: "My husband doesn't support our family financially. Today he asked to borrow money to pay $1600 in bills. I had to give it to him."

This is the kind of "kernel of truth" to "fabrication" I'm talking about. Her statements are completely misleading. She even did this with the allegations of abuse. The most I can think is that I've been mean before. I'm not a perfect husband. But the things she alleged. I was floored. Here was a woman who was sitting on the couch with me 2 days before she left. She was snuggling, asking me to hold her hand, and wanted a hug when I came home. And then later she brings me to the bedroom. And we have always had a great relationship in the bedroom.

2 days later she's telling the police I abuse her and she worried I'm going to attack her and the kids. I've never been aggressive other than getting frustrated with my boss who made personal verbal attacks on me on-going for a year.

Now, I will admit the following. She recently went to a conference with another married man, told me his wife would be attending and went. Prior to leaving, I asked to speak with the guy via Skype because I had never met him and wanted a level of comfort that my wife wasn't taking off with a complete stranger and was doing business with a legitimate businessman. It never happened and I let it go until I found out his wife never planned on attending and my wife had lied about it. I confronted her, asked her if she was having an affair, and expected that she would simply tell me, "Honey, you're over-reacting." Instead she gave me the, "Why don't you trust me? How can you think I'd do that?" Well, you lied, dearest, and broke my trust. So much for logic. But I'm now 99% sure she wasn't having a PA. So, oops, I may have accused too soon.

But that was what happened the week she left. So, I'm still just updating you guys with the original sitch and not necessarily coming to some sort of plan.

But, what I'm really looking for is an explanation to lying during the lead up to separation and divorce by the WAW to create that "reality" for her you are talking about.

Last edited by Abe31; 09/01/15 06:58 PM.

Me:41 W:43
D:19 S:14
M:20 T:22
BD1: Mar 6, 2015 - wife leaves with son
BD2: Mar 12, 2015 - restraining orders for 1 year
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,952
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,952
Originally Posted By: Abe31
Quote:

First, this post feels like a lot of you pointing out her problems. You point out here that shes going "crazy" and doesnt understand the "truth".


1. One day I came home. I bike commute and usually get home around 6:30. She had cooked dinner but burned mine. She turned on the stove and forgotten while she went and did something else. To me, I laugh, I'll eat anything and she burns dinner occasionally and I find it endearing. But I remember this day I said to her, "What?! Are you trying to poison me?" and then I took my dinner and sat down and ate.

Later, when I found her journal, she had written: "Today, my husband accused me of poisoning him." That's it. That was the journal entry.

2. I bike commute and after a couple years of bike neglect I took it into the shop for repair. My bike needed about $500 in repairs. I looked at my bank account and realized we have $1100 in bills due I'd be $200 short until the next pay day. So, I asked my wife to borrow $200 so I could pay the entire $1600 on time.

Again, when I read her journal she had stated: "My husband doesn't support our family financially. Today he asked to borrow money to pay $1600 in bills. I had to give it to him."

But, what I'm really looking for is an explanation to lying during divorce by the WAW to create that "reality" for her you are talking about.

Im confused. Which of these is a lie?

A very wise woman once told me that no matter how flat you make a pancake, there are always two sides. Youre giving me your side. Im sure she has a side too. But to me, you are seeing the situation one way, and she is seeing it another way. But I dont see hers as "wrong" and yours as "right."

In general, the WAW/WW is going to use anything that she can use to make her feel like what she is doing is justified. YOU as the LBS are her ENEMY. You are her BARRIER to true happiness. So, she is looking at every situation with a different shade of glasses than you are.

Thats why a lot of advice here is to take the focus off of her. You cant control her. You cant control her reality. All you can do is validate her opinions and feelings. To her, they ARE the truth. Doesnt mean you need to agree with them. But trying to CHANGE them is like trying to break through a wall with your head.

I see in your posts a lot of you trying to show you are "right" and she is "wrong". I dont think you will get very far with that attitude.

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
A
Abe31 Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
Quote:
Im confused. Which of these is a lie?

A very wise woman once told me that no matter how flat you make a pancake, there are always two sides. Youre giving me your side. Im sure she has a side too. But to me, you are seeing the situation one way, and she is seeing it another way. But I dont see hers as "wrong" and yours as "right."

In general, the WAW/WW is going to use anything that she can use to make her feel like what she is doing is justified. YOU as the LBS are her ENEMY. You are her BARRIER to true happiness. So, she is looking at every situation with a different shade of glasses than you are.

Thats why a lot of advice here is to take the focus off of her. You cant control her. You cant control her reality. All you can do is validate her opinions and feelings. To her, they ARE the truth. Doesnt mean you need to agree with them. But trying to CHANGE them is like trying to break through a wall with your head.


Perhaps we're focused on the wrong thing. What confuses me you've clarified. I'm the enemy to her happiness, I'm the number one bad guy to her emotional well-bring. It makes sense. But I'm kind of tired of having this role thrust upon me.

I've never tried to change her views on the matter. Or these matters. I'm simply shocked by her views on the matter. And I'm thinking to myself, "Was my behaviour that bad? I don't think so." To me I was having a normal conversation about issues and resolving them. For her, it appears like I was a monster. Okay. I get it. I disagree. So does she. And she left. /shrug


Me:41 W:43
D:19 S:14
M:20 T:22
BD1: Mar 6, 2015 - wife leaves with son
BD2: Mar 12, 2015 - restraining orders for 1 year
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,121
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,121
Hello Abe31,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

You mentioned that you are tired of having this role thrust upon you and are shocked by her views on matters. This is exactly what the WAW does!

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.



Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,952
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,952
Originally Posted By: Cristy

You mentioned that you are tired of having this role thrust upon you and are shocked by her views on matters. This is exactly what the WAW does!


Yep. Not much choice in this matter. That's why its best to turn your focus inward.

So you posted a lot of words on your M.

Let's talk about you: what do you believe you contributed to the downfall of your M?

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
A
Abe31 Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
Quote:

Yep. Not much choice in this matter. That's why its best to turn your focus inward.

So you posted a lot of words on your M.

Let's talk about you: what do you believe you contributed to the downfall of your M?


Not sure to be honest.

1. I am a good partner. But I never gave enough support.
2. I am a good provider. But we always needed more.
3. I am a good father. But I didn't do enough.

Let's see. I've already beat myself up. Let's go through the list of my failures:

A. I am emotionally naive. I communicate directly and expect the same.
B. I disconnected for a while in 2011 after years of financial failure.
C. I spend too much time doing my own things. I don't spend enough time with people to build my relationship with them.


Me:41 W:43
D:19 S:14
M:20 T:22
BD1: Mar 6, 2015 - wife leaves with son
BD2: Mar 12, 2015 - restraining orders for 1 year
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,952
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,952
Originally Posted By: Abe31
Quote:

Yep. Not much choice in this matter. That's why its best to turn your focus inward.

So you posted a lot of words on your M.

Let's talk about you: what do you believe you contributed to the downfall of your M?


Not sure to be honest.

1. I am a good partner. But I never gave enough support.
2. I am a good provider. But we always needed more.
3. I am a good father. But I didn't do enough.

You cant make a change until you identify WHAT you are going to change. So you have 3 things up there. Can you get more specific? What would 180s of those look like? HOW will you improve them?

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
A
Abe31 Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
Sorry for the length between posts. A lot has been happening in my life. And then, a lot of nothing is happening.

I went through a major surgery this summer and it took Aug and Sept to get back to health. I lost my job and I had to close up my house and put everything in storage.

Not much has changed in my sitch. The restraining orders are still in place and the lawyers are this week going to approach my wife to get me visitation with the kids. I was told to go no contact for 90 days to give her time to calm down. The only positive I can see is she agreed to reduced support due to my loss of employment. Legally, things are moving at a snail's pace. And so there is very little I can do to effect change in my marriage.

In the mean time, and in answer to Azzork's questions, I have started looking for employment again in my field. There are many opportunities and I have some good contacts so I should be back on my feet shortly.

My GAL's have been to reconnect with a lot of old friends, go hiking with them and explore the city and the local national parks. I went with another friend to watch him drag-race and met a few good people. When I get back to work I'll start cycling again. Hopefully I can get back up to 200km a week.

The downfall of my marriage was to isolate my wife and let her feel abandoned. She was alone. I didn't spend enough quality time with her. And so, she GAL-ed herself and found a life outside of the family. Eventually, she probably felt that she would be less lonely being around friends than a husband who didn't spend time with her.

All for now.


Me:41 W:43
D:19 S:14
M:20 T:22
BD1: Mar 6, 2015 - wife leaves with son
BD2: Mar 12, 2015 - restraining orders for 1 year
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
A
Abe31 Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
Okay, well, I know no one has gotten too involved in my stuff yet but my L got a response from my wife and my PO that I need advice on.

First, my wife is willing to let me see the kids. That is huge. I haven't seen them in 7 months and I am dying to see them and spend some time with them. The letter will go out from my L next week but I've been assured that all sides have already agreed to me seeing them for lunch. I'm crying from a mixture of joy and despair.

Second, and this is the big one. I have been told that my wife does not want to R. I have been told that she doesn't want to talk to me for a long time. I have agreed with and validated this back to my wife through the L. BUT and bit BUT, and this is the key, I'm being asked to send an apology letter for: "how my actions have caused distress to my wife."

Now, at this point I'm guessing at what I'm supposed to apologize for but the word "remorse" has come up a couple times. And when I read the word remorse I'm thinking my wife is upset about infidelity. I've never cheated on my wife but she's probably thinking I was having an EA. I can admit I probably crossed the line into flirting too much with OWs. No, no one in particular. But my wife and I can both get jealous.

So, I have to write an apology letter. Is there some resources or advice for this? This feels like the first step back to some sort of communication.


Me:41 W:43
D:19 S:14
M:20 T:22
BD1: Mar 6, 2015 - wife leaves with son
BD2: Mar 12, 2015 - restraining orders for 1 year
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
What does your lawyer say you should do?


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
A
Abe31 Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
L says one thing at a time. So, access to kids first.


Me:41 W:43
D:19 S:14
M:20 T:22
BD1: Mar 6, 2015 - wife leaves with son
BD2: Mar 12, 2015 - restraining orders for 1 year
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard