Ghost Riding

[Zues126]

I believe that those of us who have suffered the demons of self loathing, perfectionism and thoughts of self harm, but also the alternative extreme of happy obsession, and intense love, our black and white or all or nothing thinking, is challenging for others to understand. The vulnerability we feel in the world is significant, we are exposed. We are constantly exposed like a raw nerve on a burn victim, some days the mere air upon skin is beyond pain.

Agreed Jelly. You know, in this thread there's been discussion about what we want from a partner. One of the reasons I've had such minimal standards (i.e. someone that won't leave me) and that I've been so outraged by the lack of commitment in the world is that I have a deep abiding belief that there's something wrong with me and no one would ever want anything to do with me.

Now, people can scoff...but this isn't just me. Imagine a woman that was 600 lbs and had a hairy chin. She might feel defeated by the idea of love. She wouldn't dare ask a man out because she'd feel like it's not just one man that has rejected her, society has rejected her, and she just doesn't fit the mold of someone deserving of love. She would potentially just dream of any partner, and be sadly resigned to the idea that women like her just weren't good enough. And you know what? People might challenge that, but it's also true that most men WOULD run from her, and judge her, and want nothing to do with her. This isn't a fairy tale world we live in. We preach equality and openmindedness and inner beauty in first grade, but most people don't live it.

I feel the same as this hypothetical woman. I just got back from some shopping, there were a number of attractive women there. Every time a woman made eye contact with me I quickly looked away, as if I was apologetic for daring to meet their eyes. I feel undeserving of anyone.

Again, these forums can sit here and challenge this. Logically I don't agree with my feelings. I know I bring a lot, but a pep talk or 'quality list' doesn't change how I feel. I've felt this way my entire life and I doubt it will ever change.

What has changed is I don't care as much about it. I have accepted this. It is what it is. Everyone has a place in this world, not everyone can be the alpha male. Again, it's interesting that in so many areas of my life I am the man on campus. My low self worth is limited ONLY to women, outside of this I believe I am the incredible hulk. For some reason I just don't think it matters. Like the lyrics from John Lennon:

My mother was of the sky
My father was of the earth
I am of the universe
and you know what it's worth
I'm lonely...gonna die...

Doesn't matter that I'm a child of God's, or what I do.

So rather than fight it, I'm just accepting it.

And the funny thing is I don't think this means I can't have a good M someday. I think it's possible that a woman would see beyond "hm, he doesn't seem to think he's a catch, I guess that means I could do better for myself" and instead build a M on who I am and what I bring, I think it can work out.

I really disagree with the idea that there is one way to be, and that we all must grow and get there to find our happiness. I will continue to be a flawed individual, with insecurities that I may never conquer, thank you very much.

But to your last point Jelly, by accepting this about myself I have actually been much happier, and the pain has subsided. The raw nerves aren't there much anymore. I am feeling healthier and happier, and more stable. Not depressed at all. In fact, this is probably the happiest I've ever been. So for all those that would like to see me continue to grow, relaxing my perfectionism and self loathing and accepting my flaws (instead of trying to be this perfect person) has been the biggest change I've made in my life. I was scared for a while because I felt that was my identity, that if I lost my perfectionism I'd be 'ordinary', lose my talents and passion, and lose myself. But not to worry...I was so intense that even when I have reduced my intensity level by 95% I am still at the top of that bell curve. Feel free to think I'm joking

So thank you JB. It's really all good.

[JellyB]

Ah you forget Zues I was the 600lb woman (actually I was over 300lbs) no hairy chin though! And you have summed up my experience beautifully!

And Zues some days you sound less comfortable with yourself than others. Some days reading your posts its like reading a battle, one you are having with yourself.

It is interesting to read, as I now understand people's perceptions of me as I experience my depression. I have come to hate and love my sweet sadness. When I speak of my life in terms of the depression, and how it is overtaken and undermined my life choices and happiness at times. People feel that I have been in a constant state of sadness and overwhelm and that is just not the case. I am often better than people think and I am more resilent and resourceful than I give the impression to others (and to myself at times). I do hear what you are saying Zues.

JellyB XXX

[Zues126]

Jelly, I didn't forget. I went to 600 lbs with a wart for a reason...my first R was with a woman that was 300lbs and it didn't bother me a bit. I had to go further to find a figure that seemed more extreme for this reason, and even then I'm not saying *I* would reject that person, only that she would (rightly) feel SOCIETY had.

In fact, she left me for reasons just discussed on your thread...she felt she wasn't enough for me. Since this is 2/2 relationships is it on me, that I'm 'making women feeling this way'? Anymore I don't think so. I think I need a woman that is ok with me being open and honest about who I am without feeling threatened by it (or that is willing to spend her life pretending to be fine with it without me knowing of her pain). And for those women who would feel threatened, I have to believe there's a guy that either really has diminished desire (or that would act like it for the rest of his life in the name of M).

Wow, I feel I'm opening myself up for a lot of being blasted...but then again maybe that's just me being me, afraid that if I drop the mask I'll once again be condemned. But I'm done. This is who I am. If everyone in the world rejects me I will continue to read stories to my children, crush it at work, and play some good pool now and then

Love you all.

PS- edited to add, to me a woman that would accept me and my heart and partner with me to navigate through life- I would embrace her, regardless of her looks...much rather than a fashion model that was put off by the fact that she couldn't change how my brain shouts at me all day...

[Zues126]

Then again my friend 'wears a mask' and is relatively happily married...maybe I should bite the bullet and do that in the name of accepting reality and not being unrealistic about what M can bring...as I mentioned I'm 0/2 and obviously this I feel flawed about it, and obviously I have reason to as women don't care for it...maybe this is what it means to be a good husband and no one ever told me that white lies were the oil that made the M machine work.

[SunnyB]

There is no one woman, no matter how desirable, that would satisfy the desire in my heart.

If women believe my desire is insulting or critical to them and feel rejected and diminished, we're not going to be a good couple.

Again- my dream would be to find a partner that doesn't take my desires and needs as hurtful, but instead accepts me, appreciates that I don't act on them, and makes them part of the marital priorities along with her desires and needs. I long to have that kind of truth and intimacy, and mutual effectiveness.

Zues, I brought this over from JB's thread so as not to hijack, but I have a couple questions for you.....

I get the impression here that no woman, regardless of her desire, is enough for you, but you are willing to put up with that. Is that because you have never met a woman with equal desire, and possibly think they don't exist, or is it just that you are never going to be satisfied with one woman, period.

I personally can't imagine a better scenario than a man who wants me, for me, and if that's intense, so much the better. A physical relationship as a expression of being wanted is a powerful thing. I do have a problem with a man who wants sex, period, but doesn't particularly want ME, but is willing to be faithful to me just to be a good guy.

I spent the last few years of my M rather frustrated, the last few month before BD very frustrated, I just didn't know why. A high drive would be on my list of an ideal partner, but not if I think that it's not about me. Am I way out of bounds here? Does that get filed with rainbows and unicorns?

[Zues126]

It depends on what you mean by being satisfied.

I don't know that there will be a woman that quenches my desire so I no longer have lust in my heart all day long.

However I wouldn't be settling for a woman 'just to have sex with someone'. I would be longing for a woman that could understand and accept that about me.

In other words, a woman that understands she can't fulfill my every desire, but accepts that, even celebrates that part of me, recognizes how important it is to me, and tries to fulfill what she could...that WOULD fulfill my every desire.

[SunnyB]

I don't know that there will be a woman that quenches my desire so I no longer have lust in my heart all day long.

I don't see that as a real goal anyway. I want my man to have been thinking about me all day, ready for some fun when we both get home. But there's a big difference between that and coming home to a guy who sees me as convenient.

Thanks for being transparent, Zues. I suppose truth is, it doesn't matter. I'm not sure either of us are really going to get what we are after here.

[Zues126]

Well, hold on Sunny...maybe I didn't explain myself well. (also, not sure what you meant by not getting what we're after, I'm enjoying the conversation...maybe that's my fear of rejection speaking :)).

When I was M...every time I saw another attractive woman, I felt desire...but it made me long for my W. Every time I saw a commercial that used a sexy model...I wanted to be with my W.

She was the one I wanted to understand me. She was the one that I wanted to fulfill my needs with. And she is absolutely the one I thought of all day.

Again, we can all feel differently, just wanted to try to clarify because it is a little nuanced.

[SunnyB]

Sorry, I didn't mean to shut down the conversation. I just sometimes feel like this is not a topic a nice Southern girl is supposed to be talking about.

When I was M...every time I saw another attractive woman, I felt desire...but it made me long for my W. Every time I saw a commercial that used a sexy model...I wanted to be with my W.

She was the one I wanted to understand me. She was the one that I wanted to fulfill my needs with. And she is absolutely the one I thought of all day.

You explained this perfectly. And see it as the way a M is supposed to work. I can't imagine any woman being offended by that.

What I meant by not getting what I am after is...well, my STBX thought our sex life was great, but I want something different next time around. And I'm not sure it's available. I think I'm probably being rather unrealistic.

[Zues126]

Got it. I appreciate you validating that what I've said is reasonable, but do agree there is a time and a place for this type of discussion as well. I think this is about as far down this road we should go in a DB forum. Like you I have some things I desire different, and I'm not sure it's available. Especially since Alligators don't even live up here.

The whole topic came up as more of an example of that very question- unicorns and rainbows and unrealistic, or are we settling if we accept anything less. As I've said, not an easy thing to understand, especially since feelings and longings seem so TRUE.