hold on!! - 12

[Vanilla]

I lit a candle for you today

V

[JellyB]

Morning U (Sunday 8.32am NZ time).

I have been thinking about you. Sometimes being pressed to leap into an action that scares or rattles us, is exactly as it is meant to be. My recent lesson is that life shows up exactly how it needs to be, be that a positive or negative thing.

I very much like what you wrote to say to wife, simple but not simplistic, it was on point I felt. I very much hope that you get to manage this sitch in a way that is best for you and the children.

You are the protective father of your lovely D15. Just so you know my mother told us kids that she was leaving my father, before she told him. I appreciated it very much as it allowed me to prepare for father's reaction. They then sat us down together and told us and asked us what we wanted.

I have to say too though U. There was more drama to come after that, in fact a lot more. However what I knew about my mother then, was that she was going to be honest and truthful about the whole sitch.

Another thing I have learned over time, was it wasn't my parents acrimonious separation and custody dispute that impacted me, it was my father's relationship with me prior to during and after that determined how I felt about him and myself. While my mother attempted to protect me throughout it, ultimately my relationship with my father was mine. You will attempt to protect where you can, and provide and guidance and listening ear, and love where you can't protect. Unfortunately for kids of a divorce this is a life lesson come too soon, however a valuable one.

As part of my work, I talk everyday to parents in custody disputes. My advice to the parents of teens, is build their networks and supports around them, that don't just include you.

Teens by natural development are separating themselves from their parents at this time anyway, in these cases they often, turn to their peers and good friends. My advice is to let the parents of the good friends of your child know that change is happening in the home. They don't need to know that detail, a simple " we are divorcing" is often enough, and just ask that they keep an eye on your child. Lots of teens will talk to their friends. The friends often talk to their parents about any worries they have for their friend going through the hard time. If parents of the friend know they can give their child some good advice about how to support your child through this hard time. And on occasion I know that the friends parent have felt sufficient concern to let the parent of the friend know. Id make sure that the friends parent knows you are a contact person for your daughter if they are concerned.

You have spoken before about your older boys talking to their sister. This is a huge strength and safety place for your girl. Just ensure the boys are getting their support from you so they feel able to support her, without their stuff about mum and the D getting in the way.

I feel so reassured from reading posts on this website, that DBing has brought so many father's closer to their children. You are already half way there U, you already are a great dad! This situation will just nudge you in the same direction.

As for you dear friend, I appreciate the pain you are experiencing, and I know the challenge you feel sometimes in expressing it here in written words ( you know I have the same problem). But please keep posting, you have done so well over this period leading up to D conversation. I will be here (as you said you know I will), just say Hi too much going on, feeling crap, feeling relieved.

I have rambled too much, I really just wanted you to know that we are standing here behind you, an interesting lot, with a lot of love for you dear U-turn.

love JellyB xxx

[Vanilla]

Jelly

What a wonderful post. For those who have read my sitch ( or no) my aged Pa and V have an awesome (US) ordinary (UK) R. Aged P is 94, fit well and about to reach the semis in the north of England bowling league.

I love my aged Pa.

Standing too

And truly I wanted to go for U!

V

[u-turn]

Thank you so much jelly and V - your support means SO much to me - more than you can imagine - really if it wasn't for you and everyone else here, I would feel very alone as my friends have ran to the hills - I think because they fear this and don't want to be around it. I am trying to be discrete with my family - though they know a little. But here I can talk and listen.

Jelly - what you wrote is very comforting - I will respond more thoroughly soon. I feel like I've never been a bad dad, in fact I think I've done pretty good. I've laid the groundwork for a good longstanding relationship with my kids - though I know life happens and can change anything. I do want to do whatever it takes to keep this.

thank you - V. I don't know if anyone has lit a candle for me before - I am so honored that you care.
---
Saturday morning, I did text WW that I wanted to talk with her - she responded okay a couple hours later.

The kids were gone (I did not have opportunity to talk with them before they left)

I proceeded to tell her my script (I stuck to it).

I told her I filed for d. - she said ok.
I told her that she will be served soon. - she said "at work?" and I assured her no (this already was making me think that she is still only worried about her image - but I would not want to have that happen to me at work (why does she think I am a monster?)
I told her that I hope we can work together to tell the kids - she smirked
I told her that I hope we can work together to co-parent the kids - she started to get ramped up about this saying that is what she wanted all along but I was unwilling to budge (her idea is to keep things exactly as they are - that's co-parenting).

She is angry that I went to a L to do this and we could have worked this out by ourselves. She asked what I listed as the reason.

I told her that this is a no fault state and there is no reason. She is worried that the reason will come out in court when working out custody (again she only cares about her image).

Then things got a little heated. She wanted to yell about my faults and how I have been unwilling to talk or look at her for the last four months. Then she stated how she wishes I would get killed in an accident.

I told her that I just wanted to let her know this and I left for the rest of the day.

When I got back she was gone, but I noticed that she went through my office and my file that had all of my D paperwork, bills & receipts was gone. She took it and when she came home she threw it across the kitchen.

I calmly asked if she found what she needed. She found that I had info about her DUI in there. She starts yelling about how she thinks I am going to use this against her to prove she's a bad parent. I have no intention to do this, don't think she's a bad mom and want the kids to have both of us in their lives. (she really thinks I am a monster)

I simply said that I have no intention of doing that. (her all important image again - what if the kids find out about it?)

She's mad that I told her a day before my parents party - why didn't I wait until after?

I told her that she would think I was an a-hole no matter when I told her. I wanted her to know before the party in case it came up from my parents who don't always think about what they say.

Today she was still spewing about the party, my parents, she just went on and on. She thinks I am being smug and thinking I am perfect and innocent. She is angry that I have no emotion about this (I really do feel no emotion about this - just stress)

She's mad that my parents talked to my brother about my sitch and it's none of their business and why didn't I stop them. (I was never their for any of those convs.) she is mad that they are so judgmental and were sh!tty parents to me anyway. (not necessarily untrue, but very much irrelevant). She said she wasn't going to allow the kids to go with me to the party with me or see my parents. (this was not acceptable to me and I told her)

Blah Blah. I validated some of the things she said, but some of the things she was saying were irrelevant to what was happening.

So I assumed that she was not going to go to the party, but at the last minute she asked D15 if she wanted her to go and of course D15 said yes and she came with us.

I put on my happiest face (I was actually enjoying myself - great to celebrate such an event).Kids were happy, brother and nieces were there. WW was pleasant. we didn't fight, I even managed to pour her a glass of wine and joked with her a couple times (she actually laughed).

I felt more at ease with her than I have for a long time - I don't know why. It sure makes me question myself and my actions. I'm sure I will have plenty of these self-questioning moments though.

-----

later got a text from WW that we need to get a plan of what we are telling the kids - that this is not their fault, that we both love them, that we will parent them together, living arrangements.

I agreed and she wants me to write some notes that we can combine with hers and agree on.

I would like to tell the kids:
-Your mom and I are getting a divorce. (I will say that I filed for divorce - I am ok with that)
-There is nothing that you did to cause this, and nothing you could have done or can do to fix it.
-We both love you very much
-We have many things to figure out, but be assured that you will be able to spend time with both of us (I don't think she will like how this is worded)
-Also be assured that if you have any questions or concerns that you can come to either of us and we will answer you honestly (She won't like this one either).

I think that is all that's important right now. The questions will come and I think we could deal with them when needed.

She will likely add that we grew apart, people grow apart. I will not agree to this.

Thanks for listening to my rant - sorry I went on so long - Told you it was going to be an eventful weekend.

[JellyB]

Hey lovely U,

Ah well slight underplaying of "eventful weekend". Sounds like you handle yourself with grace and dignity. And also sounds like you achieved your goal of keeping wife emotionally intact.

From what you describe the wife's anticipated spew was well in character and not a surprise for you. Small blessings in these circumstances. A few completely inappropriate statements on her behalf. Really another verbal threat to your life. I wonder where she actually goes in her head and body in those moments she is spewing those things.

I am pleased to hear that your parents special event was not unsettled by these events, I know it played heavily on your heart and mind. Another small blessing. WIth regard to your thought and feelings of self questioning and feeling at ease. I anticipate that you will swing more often between these two extremes over the coming weeks and months. I say this, as I think this is a whole new phase.

When I work with families making change, there is a point in every transition, that someone within the change process supports behaviours that mean revisiting the beginning. What I mean by this, that change loops back on itself, the adage of the more things change the more they stay the same. It is the human experience to revert back to what we know and old ways of responding and making sense of things, particularly when a new event or crisis occurs. So as Cali would say get that spew jacket ready!

What I will also say about working with change in families, is sometimes a planned crisis is the best thing to create change particularly when a family or person is stuck. This has been a planned crisis and should be viewed as such U. While it feels out of control and maybe that it will be a run away train, you did indeed make a strategic move, to get change happening for your family. This was needed, for lots of reasons and at lots of different levels.

I respect you hugely for bravely taking on this new path to a new and better life for you and your family. Hold the faith my dear friend. And know I have a seat at the very back of the roller coaster, riding every new bump with that is likely to occur.

Btw, great list about how to tell the children. Note there were a couple of questions of asked my parents when they told me and my sisters. I was 13 years old at the time, one who was I going to live with ( I sooooo didn't want to live with my father) and the other was I didn't want to change schools.

I look forward to your next post, just to hear how your are.

You are in my thoughts

JellyB XXX

[PeterV2]

Sounds like it went as well as can be expected. I too am uncomfortable with the "I wish you were dead" attitude. Not something very endearing.

Congratulations. You've taken a major step to get your life back. When I went through divorcing my first W it was a stressful time indeed. Remember to involve not only your L, but your accountant as well. I failed to do this and really got the short end of the stick and it took me 5 years to get it fixed by citing the "material change of circumstances" clause in the separation agreement which was the only safety valve available to make any change to the agreement. That bad agreement was also a thorn in the side of my current marriage and was a contributing factor to my current W becoming a WAW.

So make sure your agreement is fair. Your ex will scream and quote all sorts of man-hating spew, perhaps even play the victim and tug on your heart strings to get more money out of the deal. Stand firm and make sure your accountant is onside.

Also give it a year before you get involved with anyone else if you can at all help it. I jumped in too early after my first marriage, before the dust had settled and a lot of that dust got into my current W's eyes and she's still got it so much in her eyes that she can't see reality.

[SunnyB]

U, good job, I know it wasn't easy to tell her. You are also on track with points to cover for the kids. Tough stuff, all of it. I'm thinking about you.

[u-turn]

Hi there Jelly - thanks for peaking in on me.

Her reaction was of no surprise to me - I've seen it before so I could guess how it would go. She would get angry of course, she would list all of the people to blame for this (me, IC, L, parents, brother, you, anyone else that she could think of, but not mention herself). The heath hex, I'm not sure where that comes from and she doesn't apologize for it in any way as if she didn't hear what she just said. I don't really give it much value - I feel like she is acting like the wounded dog that was just hit by a car and bites his owner that is trying to help him (I think Cali helped me envision this). It is her reaction.

We have e-mailed back and fourth a little of what we want to tell the kids, she hasn't really offered anything, but agrees with me. She doesn't think it is important for me to say I filed (I am mind reading about this a little).

In her last e-mail to me she said that we have wonderful children and they do not deserve this. I agree with this, but I'm not sure if she's implying that I am the only to blame. I didn't respond to that.

She told me she went to look at a house yesterday in the same town we live in and wants to talk to me about it. She also sent me a link to a family calendar and d family planner. I'm glad she is looking into the reality of this.

Tomorrow S17 is S18 and I agreed to go out to dinner together. I don't want to tell the kids until the weekend - I don't want S18 to associate this blow with his big birthday.

I am not sure about the actual living arrangements - I know I am going for 50/50 physical and legal custody and I expect that to be the case. I will want the kids to live with me, but will be fair to everyone (whatever fair is).

I work in the same school as the kids go, so they are aware that there school will not change - I am grateful for this.

I feel as though I am being friendly with W right now, more than I have been in the last several months. I do feel like I don't care that she would get the wrong impression from my niceguyness. I have been worried about that whole cake eating thing all along. Now I don't feel like it matters anymore.

Though I want to make sure that there is no mistake that I feel like our family time will be over when this is over - we will act separately.

Thank you so much for your insight into transitional families. I know very little about this and am sort of winging it. I surely would like some honesty here from anyone that thinks I am doing things that are detrimental to the kids (I do realize that this is all detrimental to the kids, but I mean to minimize this as much as possible).

I see my IC tomorrow - she has been gone for a couple weeks. I really don't know what this is accomplishing, but I like to go there and talk to her - tell my weekly story - I want to talk to her about the kids though.

I feel ok - pma is ok - no emotion though - kind of dead inside right now. I hope I liven up a little soon.

Thanks Jelly - you are a great friend.

[u-turn]

Thanks for coming over Peter.
I really am able to let that nonsense roll off of me - I know she is just angry and not doing very well expressing it in a productive way. (Listen to me being all analytical - psssh)

The accountant - I had been sleeping with my accountant for the prior 20 year - and living with the shell of that person for the last 2. She handled everything to do with our and our businesses finances. This was a mistake as she happens to be a not very good accountant. I have spent a lot of time and money trying to correct some major mistakes and probably illegal mishandling.

So - I think I am finding myself starting from scratch at age 45. Not the best situation, but one that I have no choice but to conquer. I am seeking advice from our financial service at school to try to get my retirement account moving more robustly - if that's even possible. I have to admit that I am not very good with money - I am not a spender, but I am not driven by the dollar.

I appreciate your insight with this though - if you wouldn't mind can you let me know how you ended up getting the short end of the stick - If it's none of my business that's cool too.

In our current state, her base salary and benefits are greater than mine from the school, and I make up for mine with my business (though that is variable and economy driven).

Thanks for the tip about moving on to another R or dating. I actually cannot even begin to think of this. and really don't know if I will be - It will be really hard for me to let someone in I think.

Thanks Peter

[u-turn]

Thank you for being with me here. It was really tough as you know.

The kids are next - I expect to have this conversation this weekend. I think that W & I are telling them together - at least that seems to be the plan.

W seems to be moving toward guilting me for breaking our family and for not caring about our kids enough to keep living like this. If we cannot get past this and this is going to be the only tone of the conversation, I am acceptable to telling the kids myself.

Thank you Sunny