Thank you. I'm sorry to have hurt your heart - I think I'm going to gain perspective here from husbands to help me understand what is going on in my DH's head.
It has not always been like this. I can trace it back to my illness after my son was born. During that time I was very controlling and emotionally manipulative and I 'trained' him to acquiesce to everything I wanted by big emotional outbursts. He's very non-confrontational. I think he's passive aggressive now because I taught him to be, and because it was safer for him (I was not violent, but I was very very explosive and threatened self harm on occasion) and because he felt my emotional outbursts were damaging to the kids (he was right) and it was his duty to do whatever it took to stop them.
I've embraced what I needed to do to get healthy. I think I've stepped back as far as I can to give him the space he needs as an equal in the relationship. It might be that it is too late.
I've been thinking a lot about the money this afternoon. In the past we both drank irresponsibly and to medicate anxiety and depression. That is no longer an issue for either of us. I've replaced drinking with healthier hobbies like knitting and meditation! He's spending more time alone and because there aren't emotional outbursts any longer, I think his general anxiety levels might be lower too. Money is still an issue.
I think one thing I could do is turn over the responsibility of the money entirely to him. He won't talk to me about working on it jointly, so I take care of it all, and he needs to ask me for money, then he gets angry about that. I know he finds it embarrassing and demeaning. I suppose he might think that I am trying to 'force' a relationship conversation by telling him that we'll have to carry on as we are (me in charge of the money) until we can talk together about an alternative. I believe he might not believe that a conversation with me is safe, or that he will be heard. This is mind reading, but it is all I have at the moment.
So I could just give him all the cards and financial information, give him complete access to my accounts, and stay out of it. I mention the drinking because this is not something I would do if he was still drinking irresponsibly. But he's not. And he's reliable and diligent towards our family in practical ways. He's never been abusive and he's never been reckless with our finances.
Doing this would be a MASSIVE 180 for me, as money has always been an anxiety issue for me. I grew up in a family where money was very very tight and the cause of lots of insecurity. I wonder if doing this would show respect and trust and make him feel less emasculated. My preference would be a joint account and a monthly joint discussion about the budget, but perhaps he needs to initiate that from a position of feeling powerful, rather than me insisting on it before he can have full access.
I don't know. But I can't think of anything else, and it's either this, or the BD. I don't want to do that. Talking isn't an option and an action is needed. His actions tell me that he's not interested in emotional connection, but he is committed to the well being of our children and to his responsibilities as a father. They also, perhaps, tell me that he doesn't feel like an equal and doesn't feel safe (maybe?) in expressing what he wants. So this would be a strong gesture for us.
I am going to devote more thought to it. But I think I could do this and see what happens. If we end up having to live separately, it would be very easy to change back.
One of the things that stuck out to me in reading DR was about how you can change your behaviors that will lead to changes in his behaviors. For example, giving positive reinforcement when he does something good can help give incentive for him to keep doing those things.
I dont know your whole story, but I think before you start trying to make giant changes in financial structure and family life and things like that, you may want to start small. Do some experimenting. You tried grocery shopping, and that failed....what else can you try?
The kids are both having sleep overs tonight and it's rare we get a time properly to ourselves. I get the sense that his mood at the moment is because he's dreading being alone with me.
I've just said, 'it would be great to go out for a meal tonight. I've seen this restaurant it would be good to try. I'm going to go at about 6pm and it would be great if you would join me. If you don't want to, that's fine, I'll take a book.' I said it in a nice tone and smiling - not passive aggressive or grumpy.
He said, 'I think there's no point spending the money on a meal out neither of us are going to enjoy. You'd probably have a better time on your own with a book.'
I said, 'well, I think I'd have a better time with you. But it's fine. I'll leave at six so there's no problem if you change your mind.'
He sort of grunted at me and put his headphones on - which is what he normally does when he doesn't want to speak or be spoken to.
To be honest, I'm not sure there's any point to this at all. There's a point where you have to listen to what someone else is telling you, even if they're not telling you in words. The message I am getting is that he does not want a close relationship with me. I am not willing to be a distant housemate any more.
I've just said, 'it would be great to go out for a meal tonight. I've seen this restaurant it would be good to try. I'm going to go at about 6pm and it would be great if you would join me. If you don't want to, that's fine, I'll take a book.' I said it in a nice tone and smiling - not passive aggressive or grumpy.
Unfortunately, I think youre still too big. Going out, spending money on alone time for an hour or two is a lot of pressure (somehow....). Its clear he doesnt want to spend a ton of time with you talking or doing things. So, Id try to avoid the long commitments like a dinner out.
I would start by saying "thank you" or "I appreciate ___" or make a snack for him.....Im not sure exactly. But start by doing something small. Consistently. for a few days. see what changes that imparts. Then add a new thing. Or change that thing. And keep repeating.
You are not the reason it hurt my heart. It is just that I am going through this and feel what I am reading sometimes. I hope that you are able to get through to your husband.
Money is such a stressful thing in many marriages. I handled the money in my marriage and my WW said the same things that your husband says. I hated handling the money. I asked her several times to just take over. She never would. Now, she accuses me of controlling her by not letter her spend money. No matter how many times I tried to tell her something is not in the budget she would think I was trying to control her. She said she hated always having to ask me for money. Yet, she never made any effort to work on the budget or keep up with expenses...so frustrating.
Me: 30's W: 30's M: 12yrs EA: Started 3/2015 MC Started: 4/2015 She moved out and served 6/2015 PA: Confirmed 10/5/2015 2 young kids
"If you do not stand for something you will fall for anything."
I know what you mean. It is really frustrating. I feel like I am dealing with a child sometimes and I am sure it shows, which will only feed into the problem.
I can't take responsibility for his passivity, and I am sure you know you can't take responsibility for the choices your wife made and makes now.
It is hard though. I want him to choose me. What that would look like right now is putting in a bit of effort to talk to me about his feelings, ask for what he wants, and address his side in the relationship. It could be there's lots more on my side to work on, but I can't mind-read. Sometimes I think the silent treatment is a kind of punishment for him. Sometimes I think he claims I am controlling him because it is easier for him than facing up to his own decisions awanted the relationship to improve, I would be committed to being in it for the long haul. If I knew he wanted to leave me, we could set that in motion. But he's stonewalling me. It feels really childish and I feel incredibly angry at him for it. Sometimes I think he claims I am controlling him because it is easier for him than facing up to his own decisions and inability to make them.
Then again - he is making decisions. Just like your wife made a decision not to work on the budget or keep up with expenses. He's making a decision to ignore me, to decline conversations, and to speak to me consistently in ways that mean I have to end the conversation to protect myself from the gas-lighting and nastiness.
I am struggling with a lot of anger tonight. I behaved horribly when I was ill, and I do not blame him if there are lasting effects on him from that. I should have sought treatment earlier and I should have controlled my emotions and behaviour better when I was ill. I am sure he was suffering terribly and felt that he was doing the right thing. He was not a bad man. But these days he seems to be enjoying the limbo - of being in the relationship without having to put in any effort to improve it. I think there's a part of him that is punishing me. I don't know what to do about that.
The more I think about it, the more I think things will not improve unless I leave. He's communicating to me he doesn't want me, and for my own self respect I think I need to listen to that and act accordingly. The more I read here the more I think this is cake-eating in another form.
And I am really, really sad. This was a chance for us to spend some time together. We didn't have to have a big relationship talk, or a talk about money, or anything like that. We could have just had a friendly night. But he doesn't want to be my friend.
The more I type here, the more I am coming up against the fact that I think it is over between us and he's too passive and comfortable to actually make the move, which means I will have to.
Sorry to be such a downer. I've been trying really hard to give him what he needs but I think what he wants is to be single.
SJ - I agree that actions send a much more powerful message than words. And I certainly understand where you are coming from on your "roommates" concept. Nobody wants to be in that kind of relationship.
Ive seen the analogy on here a lot about a wounded dog. You cant mistreat a dog for years and then be upset with it for biting you. It's kind of the same thing here, in my opinion.
You can walk out and leave him, but what will that really get you. No matter what, he is still the father of your children. You will always have interactions with him. Why not start making those better now. Then you can figure out what you want to do on your R side. If you were divorced right this second, would you jump into a new R? If the answer is no, then Id suggest waiting and trying to improve things.
The way I read your situation, you noticed a problem 2 years ago and thought if you ignored it, it would go away. I read it as you imagined that "time would heal the wounds." I think its time to change your behaviors. It only takes one to tango. Time to start dancing and see what happens!
My self respect, I think. The space to stop feeling like I'm constantly having to perform - to 'earn' a conversation or to 'earn' him treating me with basic civility.
You're right, I did think that time would heal. If I knew what he needed from me, I'd do it. But he won't tell me.
What I need is to know that he's in this. And I believe that he's not. So I can carry on living for, and financing the life of, someone who doesn't want me. Or I can leave and get on with mourning my mistakes and healing from this.
What I need is to know that he's in this. And I believe that he's not. So I can carry on living for, and financing the life of, someone who doesn't want me. Or I can leave and get on with mourning my mistakes and healing from this.
SJ - He's not. I think it's clear that hes not in it. Right now.
That doesnt mean he always wont be. But, you have to change first. As much as it [censored], the onus of responsibility falls on the person that wants more. So start making the small changes.
My guess is that if you BD, or if you file, it wont faze him. I dont think it will "wake him up". I dont think it will save your marriage. If you want to be divorced, fine, get divorced. Its easy to GET divorced. Its a lot harder to BE divorced.
I just "met" you today, but it doesnt sound like thats what you want. Start small. Make changes. Monitor the effects.
