Things from Michelle seem somwhat conflicting with Sandy's advice. On the one hand is all this talk of listening and validating and then this going dark and if she starts talking about the relationship just walk away and don't listen. Which is it?
I imagine there may be some middle ground, don't take abuse, act confident and hold your boundaries, but also listen and validate. If you are trying to rebuild a connection, you have to do little things that help you connect. Perhaps it is the depth to which the spouse is wayward? Maybe if too far gone they aren't going to respond to the little "talks" and "touches"? How do you reconcile being tough and confident and a "real man" while still being loving?
H:54 W:46 D:11 D:21 M:12 BD:1/15 In-house Separation 2/15 DB started 7/15, W sees consistency 9/15 Dropping the rope and having her leave 2/16, moves 5/16 Reconciliation 1/17 Obviously still struggling
It is easy to be conflicted when you have so many emotions and thoughts going through your head!
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It is confusing listening to conflicting advice, especially when much of it sounds good depending on the situation. Sandi2 for example has a much "tougher love" approach being a WAW herself. She talks about removing yourself from the equation as a husband. Stop bringing her coffee and seeing her off in the morning, ironing her clothes, etc. But what if the WAW already did that? From either guilt or "I don't want to have to depend on you for anything", she has already maneuvered things so that there really isn't anything you can do for her, right down to her running to the car door to open it herself so you can't do it for you?
I see that not pressuring her, yet being available to do nice things could work and has improved things slightly. That school of thought is that you consistently be a better option and who wouldn't fall back in love with someone always validating them and doing nice things for them. The other school of thought is "she is playing you" and you need to be as distant as aloof as possible without being cold. Taking that to the extreme, you are out every weekend and don't come home until 2am. How do you know when to try to rebuild connection slowly and when to go LRT extreme?
H:54 W:46 D:11 D:21 M:12 BD:1/15 In-house Separation 2/15 DB started 7/15, W sees consistency 9/15 Dropping the rope and having her leave 2/16, moves 5/16 Reconciliation 1/17 Obviously still struggling
I'm not sure how what you wrote was conflicting advice. You stop pursuing. That doesn't mean you get rude. It doesn't mean that you don't pull your weight in whatever aspects of life you share (house, cooking, etc.). Just realize that playing super H will not work. If this was an issue, you work on it because you want to be a better person and the reality is that you need to develop new habits, but that will not draw her back.
She doesn't see you as a couple. She doesn't want you as an H. By learning to focus on your GAL, you become interesting. That might start to draw her attention. You start focusing on your life & moving forward with it and letting her have her space. That is doing more than any of the superficial courtship actions will do right now, as you are respecting her decision and request, taking her needs seriously, and handling it with dignity and courage.
At the same time, try to show a consistency to some of those changes she may have identified as problems that you recognize as something you think are good changes for healthy Rs in general. So, don't focus on those, but attend to your share of things. Just don't do it hoping to get her attention and get credit. Do it because it is who you want to be. Only then can it be authentic. And, it won't count at all to her until she decides she wants to reconsider her decision. If she does, you want to have built some new sustainable habits. But again, it won't count until then.
Maybe I'm missing what you see as contradictory between what Sandi & the others are telling you, so if you think that is the case, maybe try to restate it a bit to make it clearer.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
Perhaps as I asking the difference between trying to rebuild a connection and LRT. There are many other sources of information that are similar to DB and DR and I am looking at them all. I do believe that absence does NOT make the heart grow fonder. So just completely withrawing without attempting to rebuild the connection seems wrong. I understand from what you said, that GAL could draw her back, but how to know which to do?
Some people HAVE gotten their spouse back by being the better choice, validating, not arguing, attempting little love touches through a one-way text message or sharing an article of interest to her, etc. Making every interaction the kind whe always wanted can get her thinking "why am I leaving this marriage?"
Or, you don't try any of that and just live your own life being cheerful and stopping just for a moment here and there when she needs to know about a bill or the kids? She leaves on a business trip and you just stay in bed and let her fend for herself and leave without a goodbye? I guess I don't get how far to pull back.
H:54 W:46 D:11 D:21 M:12 BD:1/15 In-house Separation 2/15 DB started 7/15, W sees consistency 9/15 Dropping the rope and having her leave 2/16, moves 5/16 Reconciliation 1/17 Obviously still struggling
Perhaps as I asking the difference between trying to rebuild a connection and LRT. There are many other sources of information that are similar to DB and DR and I am looking at them all.
The way I see it, if you try to do everything, you arent really doing anything. The types of interactions that you have should depend on your situation. For example, is she seeing another person? Has she moved out? DO you have kids? and so on.
Originally Posted By: Flight
I do believe that absence does NOT make the heart grow fonder. So just completely withrawing without attempting to rebuild the connection seems wrong. I understand from what you said, that GAL could draw her back, but how to know which to do?
Thats why these are called 180s. They are exactly the opposite behavior of what you have done your entire life. Of course it would seem wrong.
Think about back in high school. If some girl you didnt like kept chasing after you, trying to "build a connection", how would you react? Its usually the same here. The WAS has made it clear that they are not interested in the LBS. Theres no good way to build a connection with someone that doesnt want to connect with you.
Originally Posted By: Flight
Some people HAVE gotten their spouse back by being the better choice, validating, not arguing, attempting little love touches through a one-way text message or sharing an article of interest to her, etc. Making every interaction the kind whe always wanted can get her thinking "why am I leaving this marriage?"
Or, you don't try any of that and just live your own life being cheerful and stopping just for a moment here and there when she needs to know about a bill or the kids? She leaves on a business trip and you just stay in bed and let her fend for herself and leave without a goodbye? I guess I don't get how far to pull back.
Im a little confused. Theres a big difference between being the better choice, validating, and not arguing - all good traits regardless - and sending love notes and text messages.
The basic concepts here are for the LBS. Why should I send a nice note that I know she wont respond to? Nobody is preaching to be cold or distant. What we are shooting for is being non-pursuing, because that generally only pushes the WAS away. But you still want to be a warm beacon of light and love....just from afar, now.
I should trust my intuition. I have always been empathic and know something is up. What I believe to work and not work is dead on. I will trust myself to still maintain one-way texts and even relationhsip talks when appropriate. They work in my case. So going dark isn't the way, though knowing when to give space is important. Something happened that caused a rift that I didn't know about, and that was causing my confusion in her behavior. As is often the case, she will hold something in, punish me for it, and then later tell me what is bothering her.
Here is today's question. I reached out to people months ago at the beginning of this crisis and asked for advice and help. If they tried to give advice that I knew wouldn't work or asked outright "is there someone else", I told them. Now, months later, it is coming back to bite me even though I stopped sharing my story all those months ago. On the one hand, pressure from people who know was actually a good thing. Can't very well introduce the new guy and expect them to accept it when everyone knows who he is and despises him. Family keeps saying, "do the right thing". Easier to come back to the relationship. On the other hand, this provides the WAW an easy distraction to project the blame back onto me for "bad mouthing" her to everyone. So instead of looking at her behaviour and seeing that no lies were told and if she is ashamed, it should be for her actions, not people knowing about them, she can say how I "haven't changed".
How do I answer the accusations when they were all the things I did MONTHS ago? Do I set a boundary here to not transfer her shame onto me? Or just validate her again for sharing too much in her opinion when I was needing Prozac? Can I make this "right" for her?
One goal for me would get her to worry about her issues and not mine. I thought of having something to say gently like, "I have been working intently on my own issues and being the man I want to be through this crisis. We can only look inward, learn from our mistakes, and move forward. Like you I assume are trying to do". Somehow I want to just plant a seed that she needs to look at her own actions and reactions, not mine.
Last edited by Flight; 09/01/1504:54 PM. Reason: added the last paragraph
H:54 W:46 D:11 D:21 M:12 BD:1/15 In-house Separation 2/15 DB started 7/15, W sees consistency 9/15 Dropping the rope and having her leave 2/16, moves 5/16 Reconciliation 1/17 Obviously still struggling
I should trust my intuition. I have always been empathic and know something is up. What I believe to work and not work is dead on. I will trust myself to still maintain one-way texts and even relationship talks when appropriate. They work in my case. So going dark isn't the way, though knowing when to give space is important. Something happened that caused a rift that I didn't know about, and that was causing my confusion in her behavior. As is often the case, she will hold something in, punish me for it, and then later tell me what is bothering her.
So...if Im understanding correctly, you want to keep doing things your way? How has that worked so far?
I should trust my intuition. I have always been empathic and know something is up. What I believe to work and not work is dead on. I will trust myself to still maintain one-way texts and even relationship talks when appropriate. They work in my case. So going dark isn't the way, though knowing when to give space is important. Something happened that caused a rift that I didn't know about, and that was causing my confusion in her behavior. As is often the case, she will hold something in, punish me for it, and then later tell me what is bothering her.
So...if Im understanding correctly, you want to keep doing things your way? How has that worked so far?
In reading this, it comes across like a jerk. And that wasnt my intention. I guess my point is that it seems weird to come a board, collect advice and thoughts from several people and then say "Im right. Im going to do it my way."
It's your life, and it's a heck of a lot easier to give advice that to actually put that into practice. Its just odd to me the way this is worded and it struck a chord.
As to your last question, no, I dont think you should try to tell her she needs to change or should change or should be introspective. Take your focus off of her and put it on you.
