Is there a right or a wrong Decision

[ATPeace]

First thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2586771#Post2586771

Second thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2588947#Post2588947

Third thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2595857&page=12


Fourth thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2597932&page=1

Fith thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2602013&page=1

So time to start a new thread I hope to use this to help me to distance myself from my W over time

Co sharing the house while we still get along so we can both see the children as much as possible

W seporated from me two months ago because I did not do enough for her over the years and show her the love that she desired not enough arround the house or with the kids.

W tells me she does not feel that way about me any more
W ILUBNILWU

We get along with each other last night we went out for a meal conversation flowed between us we stayed off relation talk

I did nearly talk about us but she stopped me and we just carried on with normal chatter.

Can we just be friends is this an option to go from in love with
each other to just good friends

[asitis]

Yes it is an option. It also is likely a good route forward, esp. if you can truly make it about no-strings-attached get together when it is mutually pleasurable and enjoy it for what it is. That is where my DB coach is trying to get my W & I. From there the R can get better (not necessarily reconciliation, but she thinks it is more likely from that basis). This is esp. true if your R started out first as a friendship that grew into a romance, but it is a lot better to go through the decades of co-parenting as friends than as uncomfortable, awkward, hurting, and conflictual semi-partners in the project. No?

The general wisdom here seems to be to not always say yes to invitations. If W can't keep a friend "date," never make a big deal about it, just as a good friend wouldn't. No being an H. Just an interesting, pleasant friend. The more interesting stuff going on in your life, the more she might get drawn back in to being interested in sharing that life at least in some manner. So if you can pull it off, I'd recommend (& this also is a suggestion from my DB coach) thinking about your GAL activities to doing interesting things that make you interesting. It is a win-win, as having an interesting life & being interesting good in and of itself, W gains a friend she might turn to again some day, and kids gain co-parents who get along and work well together and even show some love for each other.

Slow, cautious, and no rushing ahead too fast. Just new friends getting to know each other don't expect their friend to let them too deep into their life right away. It is just about enjoying each other's company every once and a while.

Sounds promising to me.

[ATPeace]

Thank for the quick reply ...I might not have been totally clear ...I am talking about being friends but remaining in our house / home together (but not together)

I do not know if I can physically cope with selling the home and moving to two houses

She says she will cohabit until such time as it does not work

So firstly ...I think in my mind it is not over until it is over (I gues what I am thinking and feeling is until I experience the never seeing her again moment) in my mind things will not be final....however with four children together I cannot not see us not seeing each other I do realise in separate houses this will be much clearer to see.

I find it incredibly hard to let go ..you may say she has already let go but the fact that she still clearly wants to be friends we do things as a family we watch TV box series together (but not together) she cooked for me I cook for her we do each other's washing.

she depends on me less and less and is asking less and less of me where as I am still asking of her

I have not let go ...she has

[asitis]

I doubt she has if she isn't pushing forward on separate living spaces. And you had a friendly time. That is great at this point.

Let me ask you: Are tensions rising? Are you in conflict more or less? Is she escalating her demands or spewing more?

Sometimes the signs of progress are in what is not happening.

That said, you'll want to evaluate whether or not co-habitating is working from time to time. But if things are settling down and she is getting the space she wanted and not escalating, then let that be for a while. Focus on you, keep things light and friendly, and be patient.

Don't let her cake eat, of course. But she's still there. She's not saying I need to have a place of my own to start building my new life. She's OK with limbo. None of that looks like a sitch wo/ hope. It may be best if you start moving on a bit. Let her feel like she is being left behind a bit. It will be good for you if nothing else. I suspect you'll get some attention though.

[ATPeace]

Thank you yes I do need to be making more friends that is 100 percent

I realise that the more I think I about my friends and my W friends she has lots more that she can call on when she needs to.

I Need to join something new a new club or social event

This is something I must start to do i am really not sleeping well at the moment this does not help with the thinking ....

[asitis]

Then it seems like figuring out how to start getting some sleep is something to work on. Are you exercising? Are you doing anything else to de-stress? Meditation, yoga, tai-chi, etc.? Watch some comedians and get some laughing going. Something. If it really is interfering and you've been taking some steps to do some of this, then maybe a little break from DBing, some time away from the house, etc. to change your pattern a bit. In a sense, disrupt your habitual, as you can get into patterns that reinforce the problem in subtle ways.

[ATPeace]

Today I just cannot get my head out of thinking about what might happen got to be thinking of just today

Everything is pretty static at the moment and it is only when I start to think what may happen that my mind races and it becomes very difficult to think straight

Dr has given me anti depressants he says they take a few weeks to kick in

Wanted to stay off the medication for as long as possible

Got my children to help to keep me strong knowing I will be arround to care for them and see them all grow up means so much to me right now

I do not want to become a doom and gloom poster I am needing to get a good nights sleep

Does anyone here have difficulty sleeping and waking erly and have any tips on sleeping I never used to have any problems sleeping

Would the Dr give me sleeping tablets or can I get herbal ones ? Should I try to avoid them ...someone I know said night nurse is good at helping people to sleep

Thanks in advance

Ghost

[dwh15]

I had sleeping issues for a while, several weeks. Still get them once in a while. I would suggest asking your doctor about a sleep aid. You shouldn't need it forever, but might be helpful for a month or two. You can also try Benadryl, as that has a natural side-effect of drowsiness, and it is easily found on any drug store shelf. Just take a couple of those about an hour before bed time and it may help you relax.

On the friends thing, I have mixed feelings. I agree that if you can pull it off, it's a good idea. But it certainly makes detaching a more difficult process. If there is no OM in the picture, then I think it's probably a good idea to try and be friends. My WW is all about the friendship thing, and I went along for a few weeks, but eventually realized she was cake eating, using me for money and favors, plus she even got comfortable talking about OM and I just couldn't handle that. So I backed off, and decided I was not interested in being a friend while she has OM. Maybe I'll try again when he's out of her life, or when I have totally given up on the M. It's a hard transition to make in your mind, especially when you still have those romantic feelings for your W. Good luck.

[otw]

Ghost
you and are in the same boat. Living in the same house during these hard times. I relate to you on so many levels. My W and I can go along acting great towards each other but no kind of R. I begin to think everything is ok because i get to see my kids everyday and still see my W even though it hurts that we are not in a loving R. we have had a few disagreements on things over the past 5 months and that is when she decides to push things further. The most recent is now she wants to meet about a formal S and not living together. we have an appointment Monday. After this was set she went back to acting the same again like nothing is wrong. I just can not do that anymore. it has been going too long. I am at the point thinking that the S might be my only chance left. I do not want this route but really can not see another way. I am still trying to get on with different methods while we lead up to this and still detach. I have chosen to no longer object to the S and move along with it. this will be a complete 180 from before.

Believe me, i kow how hard this is. As far as the anti dep. I was prescribed something for anxiety which run a long the same lines. I fought it for a while as i do not like taking meds. I gave it about 2 months and stopped cold turkey. I think it did more harm than good. Not telling you not to try but work with the doctor very thoroughly on finding something right. maybe even first just get something to help you sleep instead. It will do wonders for your PMA. I battled a long time with sleep and while on the meds it was worse.

I do take Melatonin now for sleep as i always have.

Sending you prayers.

[Fogg]

Exercise would be good if your not doing it already. There's a reason it's listed among the first things you should be doing when we get here. It has a similar effect that antidepressants have. I believe it can also help with sleep. It might not seem like it but I really can confirm it does. Early on when my mood would crash and I would be miserable and emotional I realized I stopped exercising several days before. Exercise kept me just above that sane line where I was in control of my emotions.

[ATPeace]

I just feel that at the moment I do get to see my kids when I like where I like and fr how long I like and I see my W yes it s not a loving R and it takes so much for me not to cry all the time

We watch TV together sitting on the sofa like nothing is wrong we talk to each other during the day like friends would but all this means nothing to her

I honestly do not know if I could cope with the thought of not spending this time with her it sounds MAD I am not sure if she realises that when we go to separate houses that will probably be the end of going out as a family and of going out as a couple perhaps she does realise this I do not know

I actually envy my good friend who is friends with W knowing he will still get to go out with Her on nights out alone and with group friends and I won't be

[Huddy]

Relax. At least she's talking to you. It's OK to feel like this. It does bring out a question about how you measure if things are working out (I'll discuss on my own thread, instead of hijacking yours). You're still emotional. Looking at your BD date, you're probably about a month away from starting to feel stronger.

[Azzork]

Ghost - what EXACTLY are you afraid of?

Let's get those things out there so we can work through them.

[ATPeace]

Huddy I am guessing perhaps more than a month knowing me as I know me . I will catch up with your thread x

[gonegrl]

Ghost, I am still living with H, still even in the same bedroom, but to me if feels like we are separated because he is not speaking to me besides small talk. If I am lucky. He has not said he loves me, has not said he wants the M to work, has not said anything positive at all, yet he is still here, goes to MC with me, sleeps in the bed, and as far as I know stopped seeing OW and has no plans to move out.

So I understand the anxiety you are feeling. I was on clonopin for a couple of months after BD for anxiety and it was great. With it I could sleep maybe 3-4 hours per night. Then I went off and was going much better, but recently went back on. I take it maybe 2x per week to help sleep. It seems to me like if I get just one good night's sleep it kind of resets my sleep pattern and then I am good for a few nights.

I think there is a lot of hope in your sitch. Mostly because I am in a similar sitch and I still have hope. Our S's are still "here" which gives us a chance to show off all of our 180's and GAL activities. I fell asleep watching tv with H the other night, actually fell asleep with my head on his lap, and felt so wonderful to drift off in his lap. Only to be awakened to reality when the show was over and he woke me up by tapping on my head. I guess I was a little too close for comfort. So the living together can be a balancing act - makes detachment harder, keeps your hopes up and then down the very next minute, it is really a breeding ground for anxiety.

I keep telling myself that it is a good thing. I'm sticking with that for now.

[gonegrl]

Ghost, I forgot to mention. Some nights I drink a tea by Yogi Tea, it is Kava Stress Relief. I get it at the regular grocery store. This stuff is awesome! I let it steep for about 10 minutes before drinking it, to get it strong. Tastes a little earthy, but it really relaxes me. As in, I wouldn't be able to drive after drinking it, and I feel so peaceful.

My H has tried it with no effect, my father in law had the same experience I did, and I have given it to various friends and neighbors, some people feel it some do not. Worth a shot! I don't drink it every night because I read online that it is bad for your liver. I have maybe 1-2 cups a week.

[asitis]

Today I just cannot get my head out of thinking about what might happen got to be thinking of just today

Everything is pretty static at the moment and it is only when I start to think what may happen that my mind races and it becomes very difficult to think straight

Dr has given me anti depressants he says they take a few weeks to kick in

Wanted to stay off the medication for as long as possible

Got my children to help to keep me strong knowing I will be arround to care for them and see them all grow up means so much to me right now

I do not want to become a doom and gloom poster I am needing to get a good nights sleep

Does anyone here have difficulty sleeping and waking erly and have any tips on sleeping I never used to have any problems sleeping

Would the Dr give me sleeping tablets or can I get herbal ones ? Should I try to avoid them ...someone I know said night nurse is good at helping people to sleep

Thanks in advance

Ghost

Anti-depressants take weeks to work, and it is best to have a Psychiatrist doing the prescribing, because each person responds differently to particular anti-Ds. A Psychiatrist has a lot of experience listening to symptoms and then having a good hunch what to try. It still often takes 2 to 3 drugs to find the one that works for a patient.

I'd be a bit wary of sleep remedies while taking some anti-Ds. Not that they are dangerous really (although Wellbutrin can cause seizures in higher doses, so something that increases plasma levels can give you the jitters & increase the seizure risk some), but there are some drugs & supplements that can increase or impair uptake or metabolism of the anti-D.

More likely a mild anti-anxiety would be in order (something like Lorazapam/Atavan). Again, I'm not an MD, but seem to be stressed from the plateau of not much happening. You are waiting for the other shoe to fall and it is increasing your anxiety level. Anxiety often exacerbates depression, so it may give you some relief from that as well as helping the sleep.

Make sure you get some exercise, and try to get out and do things with people, even if you have to force yourself. You likely won't want to, but that is the depression. If I'm reading you right on the anxiety from waiting in limbo, doing things that focus you outside yourself and your R are a good behavioral modification to improve the emotional sitch.

Hang in there. It will pass.

[ATPeace]

Photoka thank you for taking an interest in my thread

I am not a great tea drinker

All I know is I feel shattered to the point that I really do not care if my W stays up or goes to bed I have to try to get some sleep

I did find that if I put on a Netflix movie on my iPad then the sound of the talking helps me to focus on things other than my sitch

I just have to remind myself that there is nothing that I can do tonight to change my position so worrying about it will not help not for tonight at least

[asitis]

Ghost, I forgot to mention. Some nights I drink a tea by Yogi Tea, it is Kava Stress Relief. I get it at the regular grocery store. This stuff is awesome! I let it steep for about 10 minutes before drinking it, to get it strong. Tastes a little earthy, but it really relaxes me. As in, I wouldn't be able to drive after drinking it, and I feel so peaceful.

My H has tried it with no effect, my father in law had the same experience I did, and I have given it to various friends and neighbors, some people feel it some do not. Worth a shot! I don't drink it every night because I read online that it is bad for your liver. I have maybe 1-2 cups a week.

Kava can be very effective short-term, but you're right about the concern w/ the liver. Also, the studies haven't looked at the impact of kava with someone on an anti-depressant. Some anti-depressants can cause elevated liver enzymes by themselves, so I'd be a little hesitant on combining kava with any drug that has that profile (often the guidance that comes w/ some anti-ds call for regular monitoring of liver enzyme levels, but most docs ignore this unless a patient has some indication of liver issues). Not saying don't, just informed decision.

The other reason not to mix unknowns into the sitch right now is to help the doc figure out if what he/she is prescribing is working. If it's a Psychiatrist, they have a pretty good understanding of how to interpret the feedback of the patient when mixing an anti-anxiety med with an anti-D. Not so much when mixing an herbal supplement (esp. given the variable dosage - what it says on the label is often far off what's in the bag or the pill when tested & there is little oversight of this to correct problems).

[asitis]

Photoka thank you for taking an interest in my thread

I am not a great tea drinker

All I know is I feel shattered to the point that I really do not care if my W stays up or goes to bed I have to try to get some sleep

I did find that if I put on a Netflix movie on my iPad then the sound of the talking helps me to focus on things other than my sitch

I just have to remind myself that there is nothing that I can do tonight to change my position so worrying about it will not help not for tonight at least

Given what you are saying here, I'm going to underline the getting out w/ people. Start mobilizing your support network of friends and family (that is people who know your sitch and have been supportive). Tell them what is going on, and ask them to help by dragging your butt out the house and doing something even if you aren't all that interested in the activity. Once you're out, that will likely change. Really. Tell them that you want them to push you even if you say you don't really feel like it.

Of course, you'll still have night issues, but I'd bet that getting out occasionally earlier in the evening/day will help a lot with that time too.

[Vanilla]

Ghost if movies help you distract and you have an iPad then you will have access to YouTube.

You can preload relaxation selections and just let the suggestions go from one to another on auroplay. They are chill out and have me snoozing in no time. I also project using my google home cast device to my TV. The psychedelics have me nodding away. Plus the TV is on timer. Watching exercise program's also is about the right tempo.

I also listen to TED talks and I have a play list of already heard Ted Talks which send me to sleep. I pick something interesting but not stimulating. Like quantum physics or the systems involved in computer programming. Sometimes I just go random.

Something carbohydrate also helps, (not sugar) but high carb with some great mouth feel. You can juice some root veg too and add a little hot water and honey.

V

[ATPeace]

Slightly better sleep last night but still not great

Goals for the next week work on trying to distance myself from wife

The main problem that I have got is right now nothing seems real

Most people that separate I guess move out and then stop interacting with each other I guess this is why they call it the bomb on the other hand I see my wife every day and she is keeping things pleasant

I am not quite sure how I am going to deal with the whole no longer going out with her and knowing my male friend who is also her friend and our children's God parent will be going out more often than I will be with her

At the moment we watch TV together and spend time together with the kids .....how the [censored] will I deal with not doing this any more when we do go to separate houses .....this is what scares me

I am starting to understand when they say YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE GIFT ...THE GIFT OF TIME USE IT WISELY ....I now realise what this actually means time to start trying to use it wisely

[Vanilla]

Lets reframe this Ghost ok?

Firstly its the gift of time. Get working on you, with all haste and speed.

Secondly get working on you with all speed and haste

Finally get working on YOU!

Oh and by the way did I say put the focus on you?

I didnt, how remiss


V

[ATPeace]

Vanilla

We are talking detach GAL

I cohabit with my wife how the heck do I deal with still doing things as a family like family days out ....my w and I have always watched box sets on TV we have been doing together for ever do I stop this.

How do I deal with seeing her every day and trying to feel lesser feelings towards her

This is going to sound crazy but ...do I try to stop looking at her ....don't give her my time and attention ?

What about if we go out as a family ....I am guessing I just spend the time with my focus on my kids and not my wife whilst I am out and about.

[ATPeace]

So here is an example

In 10 mins we will be going out to the fire station they have an open day at the moment it looks like it will just be our two year old and me and W going

My other 3 kids do not want to go ..l am going to try and persuade my second youngest to go as well

[Azzork]

It's fine to go. Just treat her like you would a neighbor. Or an old lady boarder at your house.

Just not like a wife.

[Vanilla]

OK Ghost

Detachment is not about physical absence although in some sitches it's easier. It is about mental detachment.

It's about 'friendly' granny not cuddly grannie. It's about co parenting.

You stop the look of desire and have the look of friend. In many ways this means withdrawing back to friendly neighbour. It means going out GAL not box sets GAL.

Emotional distance, having your own independent life. Not waiting around to do joint things with WW. Going to an open firehouse with kids, great. Sitting on the couch watching box sets got you to where you are now! More of the same really?

Go GAL and very occasionally sit on the couch if it's something you are dying to see.

You have a life don't you? If not, you need one. I made the mistake of hanging around my home eventually locked in my own small space. I would not do that again.


V

[ATPeace]

V

This is the problem ..l honestly do not have much of a life out side of my marriage and my children and my work

I have very few true friends that I could go out with outside of work

Ok one of my hobbies is playing tennis but even the at the moment I just cannot find the drive to want to start playing it right now.

One of my good friends is also a good friend of the W so the last few times we met up we have ended talking about my situation He knows her side and I find he is not helpful with some of his advice.

I know she will be going out to a night club with one of her girl friends in the next week or two and there is a very good chance she might ask our good friend above to go as well .....I am envious of this.

I know and realise that I need to try to make new friends but for a 46 year old male ...this is not easy

I need to get out more ....I have been to a couple of local meet up but it just felt very strange being there and not being with my family.

I need to detach so that if and when she tells me she wants to go to separate houses I will be able to cope with this but I also hope that she might want to at some point to Rec and reform a loving R so I look for signs of her wanting to be arround me when I see something I think things are getting better but in reality things are static ...this is not necessarily a bad thing. She has said to me that we are actually doing more together and as a family now than we were pre Seperation.

Right now living in the same house as my W and being arround the kids means my experience of my separation is clouded it's real sure enough but it feels strange.

My W still enjoys my company we do things together
My W likes and wants her own space something she felt I did not give her during M

I was sleeping in today and she bought me up a coffee to my bedroom
Last night we both wanted to go to the gym so we went together ok we did our own things whilst there but we still chatted

She is treating me like a good friend and this is how she sees me right now she has told me she loves me as a friend but her feelings are not what they use to be.

I need to be ready for the moment when we no longer sit on the sofa watching box sets
I need to be ready for the moment when we do not all go to my mums house to see her
I need to be ready for the moment when I do not see her in our house every day
I need to be ready for the moment knowing that we both will not be arround to do breakfast for the kids
I need to be ready for the reality that we will not be going out for meals together
I need to be ready for the reality that we will not be going to the gym together
I need to be ready for the reality that we will not be going on holiday again together or together as a family
I need to be ready to face the possibility that when we go to separate houses she may want nothing more to do with me other than child hand overs

How do I know if she is ready for all the above

Sorry for going on sometimes it helps to get my thoughts down,

Not many questions

Thanks
Ghost

[Huddy]

This is the place to put your thoughts down. I think you really just needed to type 'I need to be ready'. That's it. So, have a look at properties etc. and look into your finances, decide what furniture you need, curtains and so on. You might never need it, but it does help if you know that you're gonna be able to live a life afterwards (if it comes to it) and not be in a cardboard box under a bridge.

Be a scout!

[Vanilla]

My lovely drop the I need to. You create resistance in yourself every time you say I need to do this or I need to do that. If someone else said that to you, you would say 'no I don't'.

Instead have a plan, choose to go to meet ups.

Just because it's unfamiliar doesn't make it wrong. It's just unfamiliar out of your comfort zone.

Do you remember learning to drive? How unfamiliar was that?

Now you drive automatically, like the rest of us!

So we adapt.

V

[ATPeace]

Hi Vanilla

I remember you saying to me to use the Words I choose to

I choose to no longer sit on the sofa just hoping to watch box sets
I choose to no longer expect my wife to be around
I choose to accept that my wife has made her own choice to stop spending quality time with me and accept that this is something I have no control over


V does this sound better

Also I want to write out a list of reasons to go on .....reasons why the is not going to take me down. Perhaps write out some goals

I will re look at Azz thread on goals

Thanks

Ghost

[Vanilla]

Hi Vanilla

I remember you saying to me to use the Words I choose to

I choose to be active every day rather than no longer sitsitting on the sofa just hoping to watch box sets I will have a list and a diary of my choices so I am prepared in advance

I choose to no longer expect my wife to be around living her life

I choose to accept that my wife has made her own choice to stop spending quality time with me and accept that this is something I have no control over


V does this sound better

Much, much, use the positive voice, the mind has trouble with the word 'not' and 'Dont' as in 'don't break that vase' or 'it's not fair' much better to say 'be careful with the vase' and 'split the chocolates evenly'. I discovered this when learning about double negatives, my very favourite thing at one time.

Also I want to write out a list of reasons to go on .....reasons why the is not going to take me down. Perhaps write out some goals

How about "I will thrive because........
or "I have accepted......." Or "today, I have ......" Instead of "won't get me down"

I will re look at Azz thread on goals

Thanks

Ghost

Much better Ghost, I have adjusted the first two for you.

An example of some of my goals-

"I am working on building my business and I focus on resolving old outstanding client problems. My intray will have no correspondence older than one week in it, and all HMRC letters will be answered within 21 days. Payroll will be run every month by the 24 of the month."

"I am pleased that my divorce papers are finalised and with the court by 30 September 2015 and I shall begin 2016 ready to be free and single"

"I am eating high quality nutritious food, and I am losing 1lb of fat every week. 60% of my food is uncooked or lightly cooked vegetables and fruit." " I am actively following PPs exercise program every day and am extremely fit for my life"

"I chose to think that WH is free and happy living his own life and so I have my freedom to be myself. I choose to be dark with him and that brings me peace and serenity."

I am sure posters here will help you with this too.

V

[roist]

I don't post very often in other threads, but I just wanted you to know someone else is following and supporting you.

Your last post is great progress. I know how hard living together can be. You pay a high price for it mentally.

Best of luck

[ATPeace]

Thank you I just have to keep believing

Yes it is tough extremely

Need some help and advice on goal settings and perhaps things I can do to toughen up mentally and detach

Got to see her as just a friend or a room mate loose the feelings

Thank you

Ghost

[ATPeace]

Ghost - what EXACTLY are you afraid of?

Let's get those things out there so we can work through them.

Just re read my thread and saw this

I am afraid that I will not cope without my wife

I am afraid that I will be too lonley and not cope

I am afraid that my kids will be wanting to spend more time with W

I am afraid that my wife will find someone else fall in love have someone else please her and fulfil her needs (I have been my wife's only partner)

I am afraid I will not meet anyone else and be lonley for the rest of my life

I am afraid I may not cope well with my 2 year old daughter

This is a start
Thank you

Ghost

[ATPeace]

I am afraid to move on without my wife my only sole mate

I am afraid that she will meet someone else and then they will bring up my daughter

I am afraid that my children will love me less

I am afraid that she is making a very big mistake and that now she has opened the box there is no going back

I am afraid that there will be so much for me to do that I will not manage it all cooking cleaning ironing washing shopping child care and working

[Azzork]

OK - Im going to paraphrase. If Im catching this right, theres really three things you are scared of:

1) That you will not be able to emotionally function without your wife
This is why you need to detach. You seem to feel so dependent on her for your sense of emotional self. What does not being able to cope really even mean? If you get divorced, are you going to sit in your place in the dark all day? Does she really hold the power over you that without her, you wont be able to function? I dont think so! Theres no guarantee that you would meet someone else in the future. But I dont think youre ready for that yet. I think you need to prove to yourself that you dont NEED someone else holding you up first. If you arent able to stand by yourself, why would someone else want to come and hold you up?

Set some goals now to GAL. By yourself. Prove that you are a fun guy to be around. Prove that you are valuable to other people.

2) That you will not be able to physically function without your wife
Being a single dad is tough. Theres no two ways around it. Cooking, cleaning, shopping....its not easy. But Im sure you CAN do it. Your kids arent going to love you less if the floor isnt vacuumed every week.

I would set some goals to take your kids out, especially D2 without your W. Prove to yourself that you can handle things on your own.

3) That your wife can emotionally function without you
And lastly this. Theres nothing you can do about any of these fears. Nobody wants to think that their spouse would want to replace them with someone else. Nobody thinks someone else can do their job of spouse better than they can. But, these are her choices, not yours. So, all we can do is try not to think about these things. It's like when you were a kid...there more you think about the monster under the bed, the more scary and real it becomes.

All we can do is detach. Put big giant stop signs in our brains to cope with the things we cant control that scare the heck out of us. Im right there with you on this one, Ghost. I wish I had better advice. Keep working on detachment, and the pain of these fears will lessen.

[ATPeace]

Azzork

I guess my biggest fears are the ones that I have no control over her being happy with someone else she had nothing to compare me to I was her first and only partner and she was mine. The thought of someone else satisfying her every need hurts. I suppose I worry about my own inadequacy.

We have always covered each others backs through out our marriage when money was tough for her I would pay more and she would do the same when my work was quiet.

Being alone scares me .... I like to be arround people...though

she said I did not spend enough time arround her .....perhaps I didn't

So what really scares me ....honestly .....her realising she could have done better than me.

Ghost

[Azzork]

Azzork
I guess my biggest fears are the ones that I have no control over her being happy with someone else she had nothing to compare me to I was her first and only partner and she was mine. The thought of someone else satisfying her every need hurts. I suppose I worry about my own inadequacy.

So what really scares me ....honestly .....her realising she could have done better than me.

Yep. It hurts. But theres nothing you can do about it. Shes going to do as she wants. So, take the focus off of this and put it on those first two.

I would start there. Set goals that will help alleviate those first two fears. It will make this one a lot less scary.

[Vapo]

Fear is the mind killer. Fear paralyses. Lose the fear, you truly have nothing much to fear. She bombed you, she de-loved you, you got fired from the spouse, friend, lover position, what else can she do?!? You are still acting as this is just a phase for her and that she will snap out of it any day now. Nope, ain't gonna happen. And the sooner you internalize it, the better.

It is utterly useless to be afraid, for the dice has been cast. The situation has been F'd up already and you being afraid is not going to solve it any time sooner. I know you will not believe me, but if your wife had moved out you might heal faster. Sure it would hurt like hell, but hey, it's not like the whole experience has been pain free for you to begin with.

As for her meeting anyone else, try looking from the perspective, that she'll be the one who is on the loosing end, because she is loosing you. Now you just make damn sure, that you better yourself so she will indeed be sorry.

And your daughter will always be YOUR daughter as well and you will be doing the raising yourself as well.

And stop making excuses for the lack of friends. You do not need 10.000 paper friends, 3 of the right kind are way better.

And better yet, stop making excuses all togeather. I've taken another look at your fear list and it is all a lot of BS and if you looked at this list at another person's thread, I bet you'd feel the same. I mean come on, you raised 3 kids, why would you fail at the 4th? Any logic there? None. Afraid the kids will like mom better? No not try buying them off with gifts, spend time with them, talk to them, play with them (esp. the little ones).

Now go reread your fears and you will see that I'm right.

Hang in there buddy, you are really doing great.

[ATPeace]

Vapo

Thank you for your comments

You ask what else could she do I guess there is much

She could say right we are selling seh could say I want to go to separate houses so I would get to see my kids less

She could limit how much I do see my kids

You did make an interesting point that has made me think I am giving her too much power

Ok completely different question she currently uses my spare car day to day rather than using her car that is much bigger and more thirsty should I stop her using my spare car ?

The other thing is AA car recovery service is due for renewal she says she cannot afford the membership we hav joint membership do I renew her membership or do I cancel it

Many thanks

Gary

[Vapo]

Gary,

this is where you put your foot down. She is as much a parent as you are, so do not be intimidated. It seems to me like she rattles something and you cave in. I get it, I really do, but that is not the way to go.

And no, do not renew her AA. It's her car, is it not? I have a feeling that fixing stuff for our Ws is what got us in this mess to begin with...

[ATPeace]

Vapo thank you my main concern with the aa breakdown cover is what happens if she brakes down and has the kids with her

She is currently a joint member as,my W but she says that she cannot afford it it is like £40 for the year or less

She also has the benefit of using my spare car part of me thinks I should say she cannot use it but then this just seems petty

Got to work more on GAL and Detaching

[ATPeace]

[censored] [censored] [censored]
Well ok I think I may have found out why it is not a good idea to snoop
In house separation I thought would be a good thing .....now I am not sure

[censored] it I have had enough I do not think I can do this for much longer

Every day I have my W arround me every day but she is not there for me it is so [censored] hard

Will post later

[tkdmme]

Ghost,

Calm down and relax. I know how you feel. I did some snooping awhile back and didn't like what I found. It doesn't prove anything but it made me more suspicious.

I know exactly how you feel. I even went through the whole "should I fix the car situation myself". It makes things very difficult when the W is still in the same house. get out of the house for a while.
Do you play golf? it helps me tremendously.

Hang in there. it will get better.

[u-turn]

Hi Ghost - I agree that in-house separation is very hard - all of the challenges are hard to avoid - loving detachment is hard - learning not to snoop, react, notice, mind read.... is hard.

I found all of this out and lived through this type of separation. It did not work for me and I turned cold. I really believe I would be closer to a R if we spent time in a physical separation.

I did not become detached until she really hit some of her lowest points - and was striking out like a wounded animal. At that point I knew all I could do is remove her from my head (even though it was difficult at times because I still saw her for a short time every day). It didn't take long after that to start viewing things like a fly on the wall watching the circus and I was reminded often why I need to be detached.

I haven't read much of your thread but will. Though I don't feel like an expert about anything around here, I feel like the in-house separation is something that I can talk about.

I know it is painful. Hang in there.

[ATPeace]

When we first seperated it did not feel like we had it just felt like we had stopped the intermacy but 2 months on I see her distancing herself from me. She makes plans to go clubbing with a girl friend a friend that has also recently split with her partner

I think the friend is having an influence on my W with regard to clubbing and going out .....my W says that she is not looking for another guy but I believe it will be her friend that will suggest to her to date or will try to match her with someone else on one of the clubbing sessions

I want to have a conversation with my wife but I know I cannot she can't be reasoned with.

She said something to her friend the other night that I over heard she said something like ....doesn't he realise he is making it worse so if she is referring to me and I think she was then what ever I am doing is wrong but I cannot even ask her what am I doing wrong ...,it has been about 11 weeks since she bombed me

I do not feel i am making any progress

[Vapo]

Ghost, that is why they call it stinkin' thinkin'. You cannot possibly know what she was talking about, so do not assume it's about you. You do not matter to her any more. Do not snoop and do not assume. Assumption is the mother of all fcukups. This is why you detach, so you do not get hurt by this $hit.

I know it hurts, I really do, I've been there, but it does get better.

And perhaps she is not looking for another guy, but she does want to be noticed, to be sexy... And that leads to trouble. But you cannot do anything about it. In fact, anything you try (like talking to her, or talking to her friend) will just make thing worse, much worse.

Go on with your life, live like your W isn't there (but no dating) and become a strong and confident Ghost. Strong and confident = sexy And when you start feeling good about yourself, people WILL notice you.

NO ASSUMPTIONS, NO SNOOPING, IT ONLY BRINGS TROUBLE!!! And for the life of me, please do try to listen. We all say pretty much same things to you, but if you keep ignoring us...

[Vanilla]

Jim referred to such a friend as PF (poisonous friend).

You have no control over this, and discussing it will make WW petulant and argumentative.

Intel is different to snooping, ask why you want to know, is it for strategy to protect yourself or for knowledge or mere curiosity?

There is a saying if you snoop you get poop. In other words can be fed garbage and be set up.

V

[Azzork]

I do not feel i am making any progress

You can't make progress with her right now. You just can't.
She won't change her behaviors until you change yours

Are you ready to start changing yet?

Let's go back to the DR book...starting over with a beginner's mind.

Then, let's set some goals.

It's time to start actually busting your divorce, Ghost.

[ATPeace]

Thank you capo vanilla and Azzork I think I was having a difficult day yesterday

Back to busting my divorce

Some,ideas have been taken from other posts but here goes....

Parenting goals
I will choose to stay calm and in control of my emotions when I talk to my children
If I think I am going to yell I will make the effort to count to five and breath before I get the urge to yell
I will not swear at or to the children
I will choose to take an interest in the kids daily activities
Every night I will choose to read a bedtime story to D2


Personal goals
Help out arround house as much as possible
Try not to breakdown in front of children
Smile lots
I will not engage in relationship talks with W
Be fun try and laugh and joke
I will go to the gym at least three times a week
I will choose to eat healthy meals
I will work loosing 2 lbs weight each week
Every day I will record one thing I am greatful for and one reason why I will never do something stupid
I will choose to go out one evening each week and do something for me

Relationship
I need to think up some goals some help here would be great

Thank you

[roist]

Regarding R goals, it seems that your goals should be to become a better Ghost that will be attractive in any R, not specifically W.

Are the goals you made based on 180s of previous behaviour or aimed to please W. Goals must be for you, even if ultimately we hope they help reattract W.

Good luck.

[tkdmme]

Ghost,

I truly feel your pain and I know exactly how it feels to be rejected by the one person you thought you could count on forever.

It has been 6 months sense the BD for me. I did all of the things that don't work until I found DB. One thing I can tell you from experience is no matter how irrational our Ws thought process is, no one can reason with them. I tried to reason with my W and she would just stare at the floor with her arms crossed. It was like trying to talk a tomato out of being red.

It has been about a month now since we have had any R talks. It feels like she is farther away than ever. I have realized that there is nothing I can say to make her change her mind.

Just keep posting and hang in there. Its a long process and there are no guarantees that our Ws will come out of the fog. The only guarantee is that we will get through this.

[Azzork]

The only guarantee is that by focusing on ourselves and really doing the work, we will get through this and be better people, parents, friends, and partners for it.

Fixed this for you

[tkdmme]

Thanks Azzork,

BTW how do you create the window with my post in it?

[Azzork]

[*quote*=tkdmme]BTW how do you create the window with my post in it?
see what I did here? [/*quote*]

Remove those stars. Then you can type whatever you want in the other area.

[ATPeace]

My goals are for me there are a few 180s in there as well doing more with my children and more arround the house theese are areas that my W said I didn't do enough roiste yes there is nothing I can say I am just hoping that my actions will over time make her rethink her position however unlikely this will be.

Tkdmme thank you for your words

[ATPeace]

Ok last quick question before I try and get back on track ...a while ago I wrote my W a letter on a printed heart and today I noticed that she had thrown it in the bin do I say anything to her ...like if you do not want it then you could have given it back to me or do I just let this go knowing any other letters will go the same way ?

[tkdmme]

ghost,

My wife did the same. Our anniversary was back in June and I left her a letter along with a book that she had given me when we first met. When I came home the book was back on the shelf and the letter was gone. I assume she threw it away but I was scared to look.

Honestly I wouldn't write any more letters. I know its hard. I did the same things. I am finally to a mental place where I truly do not initiate any conversations about the M. Trust me, I know how hard this is. I thought I would never be able to stop trying to talk her out of it. I realized that all i was doing was making it harder for me. Every time i tried to talk to her or write her letters i got the same reaction which was total rejection. I always felt worse after i did these things. she probably felt more powerful.

Azzork wrote somewhere that as soon as you realize that you will be ok alone you will feel better. Or something to that effect. This is the truth.

My advise is to stop writing her letters and talking to her about the R. I promise you will feel better. No one wants to keep getting rejected over and over. I just stopped. and yes it took a lot of self control. i still want to try to change her mind but i know better now than to do this.

I hope this helped

[Azzork]

My goals are for me

I am just hoping that my actions will over time make her rethink her position however unlikely this will be.

Are they really? They are your actions. But are they really FOR you? Not trying to be a jerk - but you need to make sure that it IS for you. Otherwise, it wont last.

As for the letter, you gave it to her. She can do what she wants with it. Why would you think you should send another note?

[ATPeace]

Hi Azzork No I will not be sending any other notes

Anything that I do now is not for my W any longer I know it is for me ...a good example is when she first bombed ME i found it easy to loose weight I lost 2.5 stone believing she would then realise I can change ....well I still have a couple of stone to loose and just because my W is not interested in a R I will still loose the weight that I have to loose to be healthy

I know I have to get my head in the game and start detaching from her

I love My W but I have let her down

I Need to feel loved and she cannot give this to me
I Need affection and she cannot give this to me
I do not want affection with anyone else but I know she cannot give this to me
No matter what I will Be a great father to kids and this is regardless of what happens

My life has always been W and the kids

I Cannot control her
I Cannot make her change her mind
I Cannot make her love me again
She says she has got feelings but not strong loving feelings she says loves me but not in love
She Doesn't want me in that way and I cannot make her want me

She needs to be happy and for this to happen she has to be apart from me

Fear of loosing W .....already lost her
Fear of W meeting someone else....this will almost certainly happen
Fear of W friend ....leading W away from me on a different path ....this may happen but she is already away from me
Fear W friend will try to set w up on date ......she wants w to be happy so have to expect this
Fear of W finding love with someone else ......it will happen W has to be happy
Fear of W not wanting to be a part of my life ....she has already left

Let go of your fear it is time to let go of your fear

I love my W and I want her to be happy
I love my W and she needs to be happy
If I truly love her then I must let her go
Let her go and find the happiness that she is after
Do not hold on to her that is not loving

Expecting her to cohabit is not loving it is controlling
The longer I try to hold onto her the less she will love me and the more she will resent me

I have to Let go of my fear and let go of my W

[tkdmme]

Ghost,

I went back and read your situation. We have very similar situations. Like you W, my W is fine with living with me for the kids and we have conversations regarding the kids or work but If I bring up working on the M she reminds me that she hasn't changed her mind and she still wants a D. That is why I stopped talking to her about M. It put me back to square one emotionally every time.

Also, My W gave the same reasons as yours for wanting divorce. Housework, kids, emotional support. I don't think my wife is having an A but I haven't ruled it out. She has gone out of town to visit her friend (female) several times since BD. Im pretty sure that she is telling the truth but I have my suspicions.

The point is whether she is having an A or not, I cant do anything about it.

As for cohabitating, Although I know it would be hard for me, I almost wish she would move out. I hate coming home from work because it means that I have to keep my mouth shut about the M and that is hard for me. I have been able to do it lately but its still hard.

[Sotto]

Hi Ghost, I know that posting all of this must have been painful. But I do think you are on the right path here. Absolute acceptance of the current reality and a willingness to work with that and move forward yourself - that's progress I think.

Good luck to you. S xx

[ATPeace]

Ghost,

I went back and read your situation. We have very similar situations. Like you W, my W is fine with living with me for the kids and we have conversations regarding the kids or work but If I bring up working on the M she reminds me that she hasn't changed her mind and she still wants a D. That is why I stopped talking to her about M. It put me back to square one emotionally every time.

Also, My W gave the same reasons as yours for wanting divorce. Housework, kids, emotional support. I don't think my wife is having an A but I haven't ruled it out. She has gone out of town to visit her friend (female) several times since BD. Im pretty sure that she is telling the truth but I have my suspicions.

The point is whether she is having an A or not, I cant do anything about it.

As for cohabitating, Although I know it would be hard for me, I almost wish she would move out. I hate coming home from work because it means that I have to keep my mouth shut about the M and that is hard for me. I have been able to do it lately but its still hard.

I, have seen so many people with the same or very near same sitch

One,of the hardest things is seeing the W getting geared up for a night out clubbing or with male friends and knowing I can do feck all about it

[ATPeace]

Hi Ghost, I know that posting all of this must have been painful. But I do think you are on the right path here. Absolute acceptance of the current reality and a willingness to work with that and move forward yourself - that's progress I think.

Good luck to you. S xx

As I have found out in the past saying it and doing it are two different things but I have to keep telling myself I cannot change her mind it is her decision I have no control

[Georgia Bulldogs]

The point is whether she is having an A or not, I cant do anything about it

You may not be able to stop it but at least you'd know what you are up against.

There's a dividing line here on DB. Guys like Starsky, cadet (I believe) and I think the MWD suggestion that you don't snoop on your spouse is a protective measure against the obsessive snooping many betrayed spouses do once they discover their spouse is cheating. It is not meant to be a "never snoop" proposition whereby you just live in denial and make no attempts to discover the truth about your life. You can't fix your marriage unless you really know what's wrong with it....and you'll never be able to fix anything if there is a 3rd party interfering with it.

Ghost...I find it likely your wife is cheating OR has cheated. I find it very curious how you mention your good friend, God father to your children and how he continues to hang out with your wife AND seems to know her side of the story (very dangerous for married women to confide marital problems with men not their husband). He'd be suspect number 1 in my book and I can't tell you how many stories of good friends having an affair with the spouse while also giving the betrayed spouse marital advice I've heard. What better way for him to keep an eye on what you think and how close you may or may not be to busting him. However my (and your) suspicions means nothing unless you rule out the possibility once and for all.

Stop simply eavesdropping on conversations and seriously get yourself some intel. She's not going to say anything really incriminating around you. I used a voice activated digital voice recording device hidden in my wife's car to discover her "friendship" was much more than a "friendship". THEN...once you discover what you are up against....simply return the recording device to the store you bought it from and get on with working on saving your family KNOWING what the stakes are (that it's NOT 100% about you ....but, rather, her having an affair and cheating on you.)

Women only love one person at a time. When she says "I love you but I'm not in love with you" that is wayward wife code for "I love someone else now and not you anymore....at least, not like that". The reason you are making things worse now is because she has already friend zoned you and you are trying to FIX the romantic relationship with her. She THINKS she's done with that and in her mind you aren't accepting her bull crud. This invalidation of her she then uses as a further justification and rationalization to continue her behavior.

I would recommend you hide the recorder in her car for a couple days and then retrieve it and get some answers. DO NOT CONFRONT HER IMMEDIATELY. If you discover she's cheating come here to talk about what to do next and DO NOT disclose you recorded anything anywhere. Otherwise she will make it all about the fact you recorded her versus dealing with the real issue of her cheating. Use the information you hear to find another way to claim you know. Also, you may to have the ability to record again so you want to confront with other evidence and keep you best snooping method a secret. It doesn't take much proof because if she's cheating you won't have to prove it to her...she already knows....she just needs to be convinced that YOU know.

If you discover their isn't any other entanglement or affair....then you've accomplished putting your mind at ease about what she's doing behind your back and you can then focus on a walkaway wife plan versus a wayward wife plan.

The worse thing, in my mind, that you could do is to do nothing. You can't win a battle for your marriage and family without intelligence information. Your kids are counting on you to be smart here. Your wife is in a identity crisis. She needs your help. You aren't hurting her or doing anything wrong by finding out the truth and reacting accordingly. It sounds like she is making the biggest mistake of her life and as her husband she need you to figure it out and try to save her.

[ATPeace]

Thank you for your post Georgia

I am not trying to keep my head in the sand but my W is not having an A

I do know this she just wants to be single she did not get much of a chance to do the teenage things when she was young

She has fallen out of love with me but she is not looking for another man and I do believe this.

There is nothing I can do right now to change her mind believe me if I Could then I would

[ATPeace]

Right now it is all about goals and detachment my wife is gone I see a different person her love for me has gone

[mutatio]

Keep moving forward Ghost, a little everyday. We all have set backs but your are heading in the right direction. It gets easier to maintain your emotional balance as you gain the momentum of moving forward.

I was gone from here a week, during which what I realized about my marriage would have crippled me emotionally months ago, now is par for the course.

Slow and steady will get you there.

[tkdmme]

Ghost,

How are so sure that your wife is not having an A. Im just wondering because I feel the same as you. I don't think my wife is having an A but in the back of my mind and from what I have read in this site, im not sure anymore.

She comes straight home after work and we are together most every weekend. If I am not with her the kids are. I doesn't mean that much because I know not to believe what she says but she says she is not and doesn't want anything to do with any man right now.

Back when I was snooping I looked through her phone records and emails and found nothing suspicious. I handle all of our money and I haven't found anything there either. I want to believe her but I still have my doubts. I was thinking of the voice recorder Idea but im not sure. If she is not having an affair I still might hear something that would make me feel worse. Example, I looked in her phone while she was sleeping one night and saw a bunch of texts to her sister where she is basically talking trash about me. Of course this all happened before I found DBing.

I also found a Victoria's secret bag. I confirmed that her sister had given her a gift card. So I have done some investigating and have found nothing really incriminating.

I was just wondering how are you so confident that she is telling the truth?

[ATPeace]

I guess 25 years of being with her I know that if she was then she would have told me ....I have had several conversations with her and I know how she would be if there was another man

She does not have the time for a relationship and she wants to be single I guess it is a gut feeling if I am wrong then I will stand up and be corrected

[Azzork]

I guess 25 years of being with her I know that if she was then she would have told me ....I have had several conversations with her and I know how she would be if there was another man

Im not saying she is or she isnt.

But you think if she were having an affair, she would TELL you about it?

Ghost. Buddy. Really?

Why would she TELL you about it?

She is getting everything she wants right now. She has you in her back pocket doing all of the housework and babysitting. She is living in her nice house, seeing her kids whenever she wants. She has a built in friend to watch TV with or whatever at any time.

If she has something on the side and told you about it, Im sure all of that would be gone in an instant.

So. No. I dont think she would tell you about it.

[ATPeace]

Azzork I do understand where you are coming from and I guess she would not come out and tell me and yes you are right ...right now she does have everything that she wants ....I still am sure right now there is no other man.

Perhaps I will be proved to be wrong but I know my W if the was then she would have left I am certain of this

I have killed her trust of all men her words

I have to keep trying to move forward and detach focus on this not other things

[Azzork]

I'm not saying that she is.
But thinking that she's not because she would tell you if she were is ludicrous.

[tkdmme]

Ghost Azzork,

Whether there is an A or not at this point in my sitch I think is irrelevant. I cant speak for Ghost but I know that there is no way my wife would tell me if there was an A. I think I have snooped enough and if I did find some hard evidence, im not sure I wouldn't be able to keep from confronting her.

I am sticking to the basics of DB. it is definitely working for me. Im feeling better and don't have as many bad days as I used to. The W on the other hand seems to be feeling worse. I think she was enjoying my pursuit in some sick way. By detaching and GAL it seems that the her focus is off of me and my constant reasoning and begging. Again, I don't know, but it seems that she has been forced to look at herself for the first time in this sitch.

Ghost,
If you are anything like me, I think the same would work in your sitch. I have only been at this for a month and can see changes in the way she is acting. BTW these are not good changes for her because she seems to be feeling worse, but they are changes none the less.

[gonegrl]

Ghost, my H is the very LAST person in the world I would have thought would have cheated. And for the few weeks pre-BD I asked him point blank several times if he had an OW and he said no. I even had a dream that he was in a restaurant with OW, told him about it and he acted like "wow, what a bad dream, you know I'd never do that". And he did. It was "just" an EA (that he admits to now, but who really knows because he obviously wasn't telling the truth).

[Fogg]

Ghost, "killed all trust in men". Don't listen to [censored] like that. You played your role and made mistakes but so did she. You change the things you can about yourself, don't take all the blame for what's happened. Also, my W said things very similar in the beginning about not wanting another relationship but the fact was she was in an EA with a "really good friend". She texted him all in the beginning but didnt spend time with him until about 3 months after BD. He was filling her unmet needs and after so long of that happening feelings develop further. Nothing you can do about it now if she is moving closer to another man but work on yourself. My W was on that single party life in the very beginning also. Not saying this to make you think that's what's happening with your W but this is just how it tends to happen in situations like this.

Go and read my first thread and you can see I had the exact same mindset that you have right now. I blamed myself for my W walking away ( different circumstances) but I knew why W. I knew who she was and what she would do, or so I thought. When red flags began to appear about her "really good friend" I put myself into denial and focused it back on me thinking I pushed her away and wasn't there for her emotionally so she used her friends as support. Your W is not the same woman anymore.

Some things my W said to me "I don't need a man in my life,I can do it myself alone", and her "really good friends" that helped her through a crisis when I couldn't.

[ATPeace]

Ok,....ding....ding....ding time,out if I thought my wife was having an A I wood have mentioned it myself...now I know you have good intention but it is not helping ...honest....I am not putting my head in the clouds if she was having an A then I know she would be being a lot more secretive

Ok to recap on my sitch.
My W was feeling unloved I did not spend the evenings with her as much as I should have and she was hurt and upset by this...I would put my hobbies and my work before her and this was wrong. Three years ago we nearly split up but I managed to persuade her to change her mind but nothing much changed I still did not do enough around the house and I still did not spend enough time with her

So over three years possibly longer she has been feeling sad lonely and resentful and she has been using this time to detach from me and make a decision as to when she was going to leave.

When we separated she told me that there was no way she was going to come to me she wrote me a letter and made it very clear that it was over and she was not going to be changing her mind this is not about her having an affair this is about being lonely and unloved.

I do not know if there is anything I can do that will make this right I don't even know what right is anymore....I would love more than anything for my wife and I to get back together but I do not think this is ever going to happen.

So my biggest fears are there she will have an affair that she will find someone else to make a happy and right now the more I think about that really the less it helps.

I have four kids my youngest is only two and the thought of her being bought up by single parents really doesn't fill me with any excitement whatsoever my eldest child is nearly 17

I really do not know if there is any possibility of my wife falling back in love with me I don't know but all I know is I have to try and bring my feelings away from her

Yes at the moment my wife has got everything she does still live in the house she does get to see the children she does have me doing the housework being her television buddy but I guess on reflection I have the same and the only thing I don't have is is a loving wife

So please when I say that I believe she's not having an affair please let me at least hang on to this thought

I really do appreciate all the help that I get from this site and I know many of you have tried telling me time and time again that I have to move on I'm trying I really am .

I am not naive and I know my wife's emotional needs are being fulfilled she is building up a lot of friends so she can go out and socialise she has my male friend who she can talk to and yes he is happily married he is a children's God parent and both he and she have said nothing is happening.

He is a good friend he is more than 10 years younger than her his wife has just had a baby and I know they are happy together I know this

So whilst we are living in the house together we are getting along very well we have not argued in over two months now nearly 3 months since we separatedshe tells me she is happier because she does not have to rely on me she doesn't have to put me first and she can worry about only herself and looking after the children

Thank you all for your help and support please don't give up on me I will get through this and I will be stronger

Ghost

[ATPeace]

So as I see it I have just two options option one staying at my house with my children with my wife doesn't love me in the hope that things may get better I get to see my children every day I sleep in my own bed and my life is pretty [censored]
Or option two is I sell my house I see my children two all three days a week if I'm lucky I probably won't see my wife any more we will divorce and I believe my life will be worse

So I'm going to try and detach [censored] I need help with that I'm going to try and stop having feelings for my wife [censored] I don't know if I can do that but I have no choice

[roist]

With time and work (on you) you will get to a place where you know you will be OK, eventually better than OK. Do not accept that your life will be either bad or worse.

You said your wife has been feeling that way over three years. That will take a long time to change. What you do in the meantime is your choice. Reread the rules, listen to the advice and think hard .

[tkdmme]

Ghost,

I don't think we can stop having feelings for our Ws. im not even sure that its the right thing to do. Detaching however is a must. Stopping the pursuit is a must. and GAL is a must.

This is very hard stuff. I love my wife deeply and want more than anything to have her come out of this funk she is in but I also am learning to love myself again. On my way home from work everyday I start thinking of things that I may be able to say to make her change her mind but before I reach the house I convince myself that these things will not work. Its not hard to convince myself of this because I have already tried it with bad results.

Also, Choose option one. I have made my mind up that I will not leave our home and I will not aid in a D in anyway. I am not going to make it easier for her to get a D. I have to respect her wishes in the end but its not the end in my mind.

[Azzork]

Alright, let's back off of this topic for a while. I'd like to ask you something else.

You post a lot about the things you HAVE to do.

Like I HAVE to detach. I HAVE to let her go. I HAVE to get used to this.

I want to know what you ARE doing. Youre a couple months in. The initial shock should be wearing off. So it's time for action.

So, what kinds of things ARE you DOING since youve been here? How does Ghost57 behave?

[ATPeace]

Thank you I have joined some meet up groups and have been to a few it does not feel at all natural I guess it will get easier

I joined a dating site not to date but to try to meet people .....there is an option to say just looking for friends I do not want to get into another R I am a long way from being ready for that.

In 25 years I have not really been out socialising so I though meeting people just to have a drink or to have a chat with please do not think I joined the dating site just to hook up this is NOT the case

The initial shock may have worn off ...no not really but I am still riding the rolla coaster of emotions

I need to meet up with more of my friends play some pool go bowling



I

[Merckx]

Ghost, All I can say is wow. If I didn't know better I would say you just wrote my story. I like you had a chance almost 3 years ago and in my case did nothing. She came back to me so quickly that it was great and I didn't look to see what I wasn't fulfilling for her. Now we are friends in the same house, room, bed but like you everyday I look forward to coming home but the loving W is not there. An affair, not likely and I do not even want to entertain that thought either. So for now I have started running, went back to school (to get a better job closer to home) and have been spending as much time with my youngest (7) as I can because I was always out doing other things while the other 3 were growing up and missed it.
Keep it up and someday we will have a good life again.

[mutatio]

Hi Ghost, It appears to me that you are making subtle progress. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and move forward. Just go through the motions and one day the pain will begin to subside. Wishing you peace my friend.

[ATPeace]

Azzork

I am trying to distance myself from my W but this is not easy when I see her every day

I have been out with a couple of friends and have attended a could of meet up groups.

I sence that my W is distancing herself more and more from me by asking me less she does not expect or ask for my help or support

She rarley txts me or msg me and rarley calls me she is going out more and more with her friends.

So yes I am a couple of months into this and the initial shock perhaps is starting to wear off however what II am struggling with is detaching and loosing my feelings towards my W

I know her feelings have change towards me but I am struggling to loose my feelings towards her

Take this morning she came upstairs to use the shower our D was sat in bed with me so W sits on our bed dressed in nickers and bra looking seriously hot

So how do I detach from this

[roist]

Not sure about if this is advised, but if she was any other housemate that would not be accepted. Ask her not to. It will be easier on you and show her you are moving on. Just a thought.

Afterwards there is the debate as to if she is cake eating or is she just still comfortable around you.

Detaching is hard.

[Azzork]

I am trying to distance myself from my W but this is not easy when I see her every day

I have been out with a couple of friends and have attended a could of meet up groups.
I would strongly recommend finding something consistent you can do with friends or meetups or something that you can go to once a week or every other week. That way you can start to get into a routine, but also, spend time building relationships with people instead of needing to wade into the deep end every time you want to go out.

I sence that my W is distancing herself more and more from me by asking me less she does not expect or ask for my help or support

She rarley txts me or msg me and rarley calls me she is going out more and more with her friends.

So yes I am a couple of months into this and the initial shock perhaps is starting to wear off however what II am struggling with is detaching and loosing my feelings towards my W

I know her feelings have change towards me but I am struggling to loose my feelings towards her

Take this morning she came upstairs to use the shower our D was sat in bed with me so W sits on our bed dressed in nickers and bra looking seriously hot

So how do I detach from this

Theres no light switch to become detached. Its not something you just say you are, and it happens. You become detached by doing other things. By showing yourself that you are a guy worth being with. By proving to yourself that she is a fool for leaving you. But right now, EVERY SINGLE OUNCE OF YOUR FOCUS IS DIRECTED AT HER.

She feels this
She doesnt feel that
Shes doing this
She doesnt do that
and so on
and so on

I asked you what you are doing, and all you could tell me is that in the 2 months since joining, you "have been out with a couple of friends and have attended a couple of meet up groups."

You are having trouble detaching, because you arent actually doing the WORK to detach. You arent going to wake up one day and discover that you are detached. Its a process. That you need to take ownership of.

You get your own life
You focus on you
You focus on your KIDS (as 25years elegantly wrote in her post alst night to you)
You make new friends
You get some new clothes
You improve your self

Once all of those things start happening, you will begin to detach. But really not until then.

So, get past your fear. Get past your pain. They are going to be there anyway. Push them aside and get to work.

[gonegrl]

Ghost, detaching is really really hard. For me, it comes in steps, and is still a work in progress. I find it easier to read other people's threads sometimes, I find similarities to my sitch and then I get angry on someone else's behalf and think, for example, "Why is Ghost beating himself up over that?' Or "why is he letting W ruin his whole weekend" and then a lightbulb goes on and I realize that is what I am doing. Sometimes it is easier to "get it" when its not you.

I also find it is easier to detach when I think of H as "hurting"- it helps me depersonalize his spew and reactions. Its not about me, its about him. Whatever it is you need to tell yourself, do it. You won't suddenly be detached, but it will come in bits and pieces, like pulling a band aid off, when you keep working at it and loosen it a little at a time. It might take a while, but eventually it gets looser and comes off.

Another thing I do is picture myself relating the current scenario to my IC or in MC. What do I want to report back to them? My feelings about H's feelings? The continued "he said this so I said that"? That isn't going to get anybody anywhere. I want to be able to stand back and say "H is still angry, he is still not dealing with his issues well, I am giving him the space he needs to work on that, and focusing on getting the kids off to a new school year and working out." I want to give helpful "reports", not "get into it" with the crazy making details. I don't want to get sucked into the crazy.

Also, I had a few really "wow" moments with H when his behavior and words were so over the top, that it really stopped me in my tracks and helped with detachment because there was just no way I was going to go there with him. At some point you have to set a boundary and say "no way am I being dragged there emotionally."

So those are the things that have helped me detach. And I am not there yet. But getting there. Each time I take a little step closer to detachment I honestly feel so much better. Really, it makes the emotions less intense and makes me feel so much more confident and hopeful.

[gonegrl]

Also, Ghost, this is the hardest thing in the world, and it [censored] and is painful beyond words and is a living hell, so don't feel bad that it isn't coming easy to you. Do NOT beat yourself up over this. Just keep working at it and taking small steps towards it, and do it for your own sanity, not for your W. I promise you will feel better. And it will be very good role modeling for your kids.

[ATPeace]

This thread is coming to its end I really do not think I have made very much progress at all I find that I am constantly breaking down and crying ...li am nearly 90 days into this things should be getting easier but they are not

A song came on the radio ah ha Under the Makeup and I just burst in to tears

I feel I am really bad at this everyone is trying to help me I know and I am trying to distance myself but I am really struggling...I will start a new thread soon and will try to be more positive

Azzork fogg vanilla sandi photoka 25yrs Huddy and everyone else who has helped me ....please do not give up on me you have told me time and time again and I am really trying to do the right things

I am not having less conversations with my W about the R and this has been progress for me I want to talk to her but realise I cannot

I am going to re read all my threads and try to learn more

Thank you

Ghost

[Vanilla]

Ghost

It's going to be ok. It will unfold. One day soon, it will be clear.

I internet promise.

V

[ATPeace]

Typo from my post above I AM HAVING LESS conversations about the R not I am not.

Today I have gone to meet my daughter who is riding ...spoke to my wife she seems so distant she was cold sitting watching daughter ride so I offered her my jumper but she would rather be cold than take it from me point blankly refused it .....in the past she would have put it on her

I guess this is just the start of how distant she is going get I do not want her to feel like she is a stranger to me .....I guess this is distancing

[Fogg]

Yep, she will. My W didn't want anything from me either and I can see why your W doesn't now considering your interactions. She's trying to show you its over and not give you the wrong idea. If she was to take the jumper you would have seen it as a positive and gain expectations, she knows that.

[dwh15]

This thread is coming to its end I really do not think I have made very much progress at all I find that I am constantly breaking down and crying ...li am nearly 90 days into this things should be getting easier but they are not

A song came on the radio ah ha Under the Makeup and I just burst in to tears

I feel I am really bad at this everyone is trying to help me I know and I am trying to distance myself but I am really struggling...I will start a new thread soon and will try to be more positive

Don't beat yourself up too badly over still struggling. While it probably feels like forever, 3 months is not that long. My WW moved out 6 months ago and I still struggle daily. But it's not nearly as bad as it was last month or the month before that. Things do gradually get easier. You have been a couple for a very long time; that is part of your identity. It's not going to just fade away in a couple of months. Just be patient with yourself, keep doing the right things, and it will get better.

[asitis]

Remember that the early stages (& this takes longer than you think, and you aren't abnormal still being here) are mostly about will power to build new patterns even while you struggle a lot emotionally. This keeps you from making matters worse, while you give yourself time to get to a place where you can see the R with more distance and detachment. It's not that you won't still care or things will stop hurting, but that you will be able to stop and put things in perspective and recognize and embrace the emotions better.

So, be patient. You're getting there even if it doesn't feel like it at times. And, you will likely not see R progress from W for a while. She is going through her own process, much of which you have little control over. Progress at this point is often measured by what is not happening. She isn't escalating. You are able to listen and validate, which settles down the outbursts more quickly. She isn't having to blast you to back you off. You occasionally work cooperatively on a joint concern (kids, practical matters, etc.).

Reading your posts, I have a couple of observations for your consideration. The most recent say that you are having fewer R talks w/ W. Great, but you should be having NO R talks w/ W if you can help it, and it should never be you that initiates them at this point. Is this what you are doing, or are you still initiating.

You seem to be struggling on detachment & GAL. GAL here is critical, as when you are starting to pursue things for yourself and starting to enjoy aspects of your life, you have a better capacity to detach. You also make yourself more pleasant to be around. Your focus shifts a little from W to you. All these take pressure off your W, and she can relax a bit around you, which will in turn help you relax a bit more. We communicate a lot without saying a word. I'm sure you're still sending your W lots of pursuit signals that you aren't aware off. You will eventually see some of these probably, but in the meantime, GAL helps lower the pursuit heat.

Hang in there. We all go through these self-doubt phases. We all struggle and think it just isn't working. We are too close to the situation to really see things for what they are. We are looking for X and miss Y, because it really is X we want. But Y is a sign of progress. You want W to be more friendly and accepting of your attention and love. That isn't going to happen yet. It just won't. What is happening is not your heart's desire, but it still is improvement. It doesn't feel like progress, because you really, really want something else to happen & it's not. Most of us go through this (I know I did repeatedly) multiple times. It is that our goals & expectations aren't realistic. Whether we want it or not, the babystep goals at this point is to be lowering the tension and halting the escalation that was going on prior to the start of DBing. Then, as the dust settles, you may start to see glimpses of friendly interactions (& then you'll get your hopes up & get them dashed repeatedly until you learn that you have again allowed your hopes to get your goals beyond realistic expectations for the stage you are in).

So, back to GAL & detach. Fake it till you make it. Look for what isn't getting worse at this point. And, try a little harder to stop looking for signs of progress. It is a form of pursuit if your focus is strongly on her in this way and it undermines your efforts (I still do this even now at times). We are looking for patterns of behavior not that first glimpse. Trust me that you won't miss the new pattern as it develops more clearly, and you don't have to watch so closely for the signs.

Hang in there. This will pass. And, the reality is that you can always jump off the ride, but you know at this point that this is not an option for you. So, back to doing your best on a very difficult time making the most out of the ride you are on. You're showing more strength and progress than you realize. We see it.

[asitis]

Yep, she will. My W didn't want anything from me either and I can see why your W doesn't now considering your interactions. She's trying to show you its over and not give you the wrong idea. If she was to take the jumper you would have seen it as a positive and gain expectations, she knows that.

Fogg is speaking the deep truth here, and I'll underline that I went through this a lot longer than 90 days. Again, our hopes and realistic expectations don't match and this makes us feel we are failing.

[Fogg]

Ghost, this is a very difficult process and it does take time to get to certain points in it. Detaching is something that will be ongoing and wont happen overnight. I still struggle with it also, we all do. Right now you don't need to let go of the feelings for W, you don't need to detach fully, you don't need to move on with your life. What you need to do is control yourself and not react to her while moving forward with your life. You should be close to that point of being in control of yourself. Internally you will be f'ed up for a long time(it gets easier though), but you can gain strength and be in control of your actions regardless of whats going on inside.

Also, there's nothing wrong with breaking down and crying about your sitch. I've done it within the last few days. You just cant do it around her. Crying is a very normal part of the grief process and not something you want to force away. Let it happen, experience the moment for the time needed(don't dwell in it) and move forward.

[gonegrl]

Ghost, I spent the first 3 months after BD crying in a heap on my bedroom closet floor, also a lot of time crying in parking lots. I lost 25 lbs and I was on xanax and slept maybe 3-4 hours a night on a good night. Suddenly right around the 3 month mark I started pulling myself together and found DB at 4 months.

It will be easier, my friend, it will.

[lonelee]

Ghost, im sorry you feel dissappointed in your self and with progress. I have felt this same way a million times and I have not been at this very long either 4months + so do the math .. there was a lot of times I felt defeated.

Feel the sadness allow it to do the job it needs to do and then move on from it and get your self busy thinking about something else. Surround yourself with people and activities that keep you from thinking about your sit. I know you dont believe it right now but as the others have said one day it will get a little better and you wont realise it at first and then the next day a little easier and then finally you realize I havent thought about my sit for a couple of hours and then it will get to be longer lengths of time.

Keep your head up and be brave. Many of us are living proof that if you do the work as suggested here you will feel more positive about yourself and your situation. We all care about you and want whats best for you.

Dont give up hope. {Bear hug}

[Azzork]

This thread is coming to its end I really do not think I have made very much progress at all I find that I am constantly breaking down and crying ...li am nearly 90 days into this things should be getting easier but they are not

A song came on the radio ah ha Under the Makeup and I just burst in to tears

I feel I am really bad at this everyone is trying to help me I know and I am trying to distance myself but I am really struggling...I will start a new thread soon and will try to be more positive

Don't beat yourself up too badly over still struggling. While it probably feels like forever, 3 months is not that long. My WW moved out 6 months ago and I still struggle daily. But it's not nearly as bad as it was last month or the month before that. Things do gradually get easier. You have been a couple for a very long time; that is part of your identity. It's not going to just fade away in a couple of months. Just be patient with yourself, keep doing the right things, and it will get better.

Don't think that every day will be better than the day before. There are good days and bad days. But look back and compare how you feel today with how you felt the day of BD. I'm sure there's some difference there. As long as the aggregate trend is toward feeling better, that's all you can ask for. There is no timetable toward feeling better, so don't worry about it too much. Impatience only hurts you.

[ATPeace]

Next thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2604574#Post2604574