Lost & confused

[Clairee]

I didn't have those conversations till he was back in 100%. There's no point until then imo. Once H was firmly 100% committed to us, we had that talk. I had that talk a million times in my head & dozens of times in my journal. I wrote them all down, rewrote them more time than I can remember & then rewrote then again until they were exactly the boundaries I needed & not just acts of control. The time will come for you to have that talk, so really put thought into what boundaries you need to feel comfortable & safe moving forward. Make sure they're boundaries & not just ways to control.

[hopeOK]

That is a good suggestion. I also liked how you said that these were boundaries for both of you guys... I think that is a helpful point to make when I do have that conversation. It isn't about punishing him for what he has done, it is about protecting our marriage on both sides.

I feel like he is 100% committed but I am a bit leery on relationship talks related to OW as I have ruined a bunch of those conversations by getting myself too worked up & accusing him of things. So I think I have to work on myself a bit more to be sure I am approaching it in a healthy way and that I am doing so for the right reasons (like you said, not for control). I think I will use the book His Needs, Her Needs to open up that conversation... he read a bit of it while we were on vacation & the need for feeling safe & secure is a big one for me. Also how the book talks about how letting someone else outside of the marriage receive intimate conversation takes away from what you could be putting into your spouse's love bank. This is a big reason why we should not be having members of the opposite sex as close friends or someone we share intimate details of our life with... it takes away from the marriage & creates the potential for affair. But how to say all this without lecturing or going on & on is what I need to figure out!

[Clairee]

That was hard for me to find the words for a long time. What I finally said was that whenever you're having these conversations, no matter how benign they may be, you are taking energy away from us. That every minute, word or thought you're giving to another woman, you are taking away from me & whether you realize it or not or interpret it this way or not, I feel you are putting them on the same level as me & I don't feel another woman should be on my level with you or another man on your level with me. You are well above anyone else in my life past, present or future & no one would ever be your equal.

[hopeOK]

Very well said. I hope I can muster enough calm to say it as well. But it is exactly what I want to get across.

[Clairee]

Patience, calm, rational...all the reasons why I wrote it many, many times & practiced saying it many, many times before I sat down with him. I knew what I wanted to say. It was finding the right words, said with just the right amount of emotion & without sounding like his mother or a controlling shrew that was the challenge.

You can do it. When the time is right for you, you will find the words you need to say that he will understand. It's all baby steps. I come from a dancing background, so I looked at my sitch in the same way I learned a new dance. I didn't learn it all at once. First I watched the dance. Then I learned the music, then I learned 1 part, I practiced that part. Then I learned another & practiced, then another & so on. Then I put it all together & without hesitation, uncertainty, with confidence & clarity, I danced.

[hopeOK]

Yeah, I will try that. I will write it out and work it out. Then practice.

How did you decide he was ready to hear what you had to say?

Do you ever have thoughts/worries about him having another affair but taking it further underground? Like only communicating while at work or on work landline or work computer? Or really covering his tracks? Clearly I have a lot more work to do on trusting... but these are thoughts that sometimes come up for me. I know that he will do what he will do... I have no control over that. But I just don't want to have something go under my radar for a long time and then be bulldozed by it.

[Clairee]

i decided when it felt right. When I felt we had stabilized things enough & when I felt I was in control of my words, emotions & actions. There is nothing I can really point to & say he did this or that's happened so now is the time. It was just a feeling I had & I went with it.

Sure I have thoughts like that. I got smacked in the head twice in a matter of months about 2 OW. It's natural to have those thoughts. What I don't do is let them control me or change who I have become. I don't let them become an insecurity that eats at me. When those thoughts happen, I talk to H about them. I am honest & open about what I'm feeling, what I was thinking & how it impacts me. I keep the focus on me & my feelings, not on him or his actions. That allows me to control my words & gives him the opportunity to validate & reassure. I was really open from the beginning of our mending that there were going to be times I needed reassurance. That it could be days, weeks, months or years ahead & I might still need his reassurances. He understands that & knows it's not necessarily because he's done something, but that what he did was traumatic & devastating to me, that his choices destroyed all trust I had for him & that restoring it will take a very long time of him being consistent & accepting that flashbacks will happen, feelings will come back & pain will emerge at times. He also understands it's not a reflection of where we are, but of where we were & how destructive it was.

[hopeOK]

Ok. Well I hope I will know the time when it comes.

Yes, that is a good point. They do have the potential to take over so that is important. We are in such a peculiar place... when we were going through counseling, we were encouraged to talk to each other & I was encouraged to share my feelings/fears. I did that (sometimes in the wrong way but a lot of times in the right way) & he did a good job of reassuring me most times. But then we fell of the tracks, I really messed up & hurt him & the communication about that has gone. Mostly because while we were so distant (& seriously looking at divorce) I had a couple blow ups about my insecurities of him & the OW & it really caused us to go further apart. So now I've just zipped it. I couldn't trust myself to bring it to him in the right way & so I stopped. Now for me, it is like the elephant in the room. We are doing good on so many other fronts but we just no longer talk about the affair. I sometimes wonder if he thinks I am all better about it. I am sure he is relieved I don't hang it over his head all the time like I was doing before... which I don't want to do again but there are a few things that do need to be said about it. Ugh. So complicated.

[Clairee]

It is all very complicated. I had those moments too when I beat him over the head about it & it pushed us farther apart. Counseling helped a lot. I know you've said he wouldn't consider counseling again because of what happened already, but I would at least get some IC for you. You have a lot of anxiety & I think you would benefit greatly from IC. It would help you sort through your feelings & find the way to approach all these things you need to say in a constructive way. When I looked for my IC, I was very clear what I wanted out of the counseling. I wanted a pro-marriage counselor to help me find forgiveness, to work through my anger & anxieties & who could help me learn how to approach all the questions I had for H & how to talk about what I needed to talk about without alienating him or making him feel punished. I saw her every week for 10 months. It was the most personally beneficial thing I've done.

Things are quiet around here this week. I finally have a week not filled with appointments. The weather has been horrible, it's been raining & everything is flooded. So GAL activities have been few & far between. We have 4 storm systems surrounding us & it doesn't look like this is going to let up anytime soon. So I'm indoors until further notice, unless I build a canoe...lol

[hopeOK]

It is all very complicated. I had those moments too when I beat him over the head about it & it pushed us farther apart. Counseling helped a lot. I know you've said he wouldn't consider counseling again because of what happened already, but I would at least get some IC for you. You have a lot of anxiety & I think you would benefit greatly from IC. It would help you sort through your feelings & find the way to approach all these things you need to say in a constructive way. When I looked for my IC, I was very clear what I wanted out of the counseling. I wanted a pro-marriage counselor to help me find forgiveness, to work through my anger & anxieties & who could help me learn how to approach all the questions I had for H & how to talk about what I needed to talk about without alienating him or making him feel punished. I saw her every week for 10 months. It was the most personally beneficial thing I've done.

I've been doing IC since middle of June. It has helped a ton with me being able to stop confronting him on my suspicions (which are all assumptions). But now I think I am going in the total opposite direction of avoidance. I want to say something but am afraid of backsliding like in the past. But from where I've come from, I am doing so much better (but so is the marriage... so not sure if it is the situation that changed or if I really worked on my anxiety)... I was a huge mess for quite a while. Now, I just have my thoughts that drive me crazy. Before it was crazy heart rate, tight chest, etc. A real true panic attack! So glad to have that gone.