Vidya

[mutatio]

Hi Vanilla, thank you for helping me on my journey. I could use your sage advice. Here's a little more backstory on chapters 2 & 3.

The last two years of chapter 2 are important. At the beginning of the last two years I found a new job and left my FIL's business. The business was doing poorly, the hours (nights) were really rough and I hated the job. My wife and I discussed it and we agreed to make the change. After working the new job my wife wanted me to take a more active roll in my children's lives. I behaved better but not good enough in hindsight. I worked around the house instead of taking the kids to the pool. I drank beer and worked in the garage. The truth is I asked the kids if they wanted to go to the pool and they didn't want to go. I now realize that between my bad behavior and not doing things with them there was not a deep relationship with them.

My wife told me later that after changing jobs she really hoped that I would change. In her eyes I did not. One year before the EA/PA I began to sense her pulling away. Reduced emotional and physical intimacy. The summer vacation before the beginning of the EA we had no sex. That fall I sensed her pulling away more and more. When I would come into the room she would immediately close her laptop or turn it in a way so I could not see what she was doing.

These behaviors worried me, I felt something was wrong. I knew that I my drinking was a problem. I wanted to be a better man for my wife and my family. Sensing my wife pulling away and and knowing my selfish behaviors were the cause was the mechanism. I had a moment of clarity and stopped drinking. One month later the EA/PA came to light.

I was shaken to my core. I truly believed I caused my wife's EA/PA with the years of bad behavior. I swore off the booze, meanness and bullying. I blamed these behaviors for all the problems we were having. It was easy to drop those habits by blaming them for my wife's actions.

I now realize that I did not do enough to repair the marriage. I will regret this mistake till the day I die. I love my wife and always will. The sad thing is that may not be enough.

[asitis]

Thanks for the visualization Azzork, it helps to realize I working on glacial time.

SPD72, thank you for posting and your support. I see we both had BD on New Years Day. My wife said if it wasn't for the kids and the financial entanglements she would be long gone. So she is here physically but that's about it. I will try to check out your thread tonight.

I know that is hard to hear, but likely you will get to the point where you feel it is the kids that is keeping you hanging in there too. The other thing to realize is that the pressures of being parents and the things we screw up in our Ms because we don't adjust well to being parents, or then parents of multiple kids, contributes to the breakdown of the M. So in a certain way the kids (not them per se, but the reality of having kids) contributes to her wanting to be long gone, as well as keeps her tied when she feels this way. Almost all Ms have their times when things get rocky and the feelings change. The ones that survive and thrive go through something like this too, and yet they survive and thrive lovingly.

[asitis]

Love is never enough. It takes a whole lot of other skills and learning and the cooperation of the partner.

You did not cause your W's actions. Her actions were certainly in large part a reaction to your behavior, but don't own more of the responsibility than you deserve. You can't force someone into an A. She had to chose to go there. Yes, your behavior hurt her. But, she neither of you was skillful enough to work through those problems.

And, while it may be over, you just don't know. You likely won't for a while yet. So, don't paint yourself into that corner either.

[mutatio]

Thank you asitis for sharing your wisdom. I am working to improve those qualities and skills into my life experience. I am doing this for me. It is important to me to evolve and be a better father and potential partner.

Last week I finally come to the realization that I do not own her affair. She own's it all. I have my baggage but not that, that's her's to carry. The day I realized that was a good day.

I agree it's far from over. I have at least a year before she may pull the trigger (figure of speech). A lot can happen in a year. This morning she was very chatty. I know that means nothing but after days of silence, it was nice to hear her voice and see her smile as she spoke. God knows I truly love this woman.

I know none of this matters. This is all about me and I must not stray far from the path.

[mutatio]

I am doing well with my interactions with my wife. It seems she is not so down when I am around. I do not dwell in her presence, I communicate and move on.

This is as good as it gets for now and because of that, I get sad thinking about where I am in my life. I feel like a failure. How could I have done this to the women I profess to love. Why would I treat my children poorly..... sigh

[Vanilla]

OK, so when the tipping point happened between two and three, the day you ' realised' the drinking had to stop, exactly what happened?

Was it flash, instantly? Did it take a couple of days? Was it IC? A row with WW? A quiet moment? The middle of the day?

What precisely at that point flipped the switch?

How did it feel? Were you angry, sad, accepting? Did you go to AA?

What did that change feel like for you?

How did WW react? It was two weeks and you discovered EA, what happened in those two weeks between pivot point and EA discovery?

V

[mutatio]

Good morning Vanilla. Here is the chain of events I believe you are looking for. To set the stage the time period is the fall of 2008. I am beginning my third year at my new job. At this point I have been behaving better (by old me standards) but I still drink a case of beer each weekend. My wife has been on a geek discussion forum for about a year where she has many friends, one a male, living 25 miles away. During the summer of 2008 she seems a little more distant. She enjoys her online life and I am happy it gives her joy. I am a little jealous of the time she spends online but I don't discuss it because of my guilt from behavior in the past.

During September and October my wife is spending more and more time on laptop. She is in the room with me and the kids and is somewhat involved with us but she always has the laptop. In hindsight the online EA has already began. They, my wife and the male from 25 miles away have never met in person. Halloween 2008 is the day that the the EA becomes sexual. What they will do to each other, bad mouth their spouses, yada yada yada. It consumes more of my wife's time. She is secretive with the laptop and always has it close by.

In early November I begin to see my wife has really changed, more distant the ever. I realize something is really wrong but don't know what. I've be thinking for the last half of year that I should stop drinking because it only leads to problems between my wife and kids. Now with her pulling away I really consider it to be affecting my relationship. Also during this time I start to wonder if my wife is cheating, its just a hunch.

Now for the moment of truth, the tipping point, the flip of the switch, Thanksgiving 2008. I had a few beers at my wife's cousin house Thanksgiving day. It was a nice holiday for one and all and in the evening we are heading home. My daughters are in the backseat fighting nonstop about their territorial space and it gets ugly. My wife is dealing with it while I drive but is not succeeding at making it stop. I grow impatient and chime in. I say to my eldest daughter to stop being like bin laden. My wife becomes very angry with me and rips me a new orifice. She says she can't take it anymore and she is done. She repeats this to her self a few times. That night I decide to stop drinking although I do not tell my wife. Friday I do not drink. Saturday we have plans to see a band we like with a large group of friends we know. We all meet early for dinner and drinks. I decide to drink with my friends. I get pretty drunk. We all leave and walk over to the show, its a small theater venue. When the music begins my wife says she is going to stand down in front of the stage. I hang back because its to crowded. I am listening to the band in my drunken stupor and watch my wife talking with some guy (not Mr EA). It goes on for a couple songs and I realize I am losing her, that I have driven her away with my bad behavior and drinking. I get really sad at the state of my marriage and sit down for a while thinking about the situation and I decide to quit drinking. Eventually I go down and hangout with my wife. Sunday morning I tell my wife I'm going to stop drinking. I have not had a drink since that night almost 7 years ago.

On December 10th 2008, a rainy Wednesday, Mr. EA decides to drive to my wife's workplace. She meets him in the parking lot of her building and they sit in her car for over an hour. They talk, hold hands, kiss and grope. I was at work but for some reason I just knew something was wrong. They decide to meet again after the holidays and "do it". On December 21st, we get a phone call at 5 am from Mr. EA's wife. She tell's my wife its over and to back off. Later that day my wife comes clean and tells me it all.

Questions the paragraphs above did not answer-

Did you go to AA? No I don't need it. I never want to drink again. Every difficulty with my wife reminds me of that fact.

What did that change feel like for you? I was glad to removing such a terrible habit from my life, marriage and children.

How did WW react? My wife was glad that I chose to quit drinking. I suspect she had a wait and see attitude about my resolve because it part of my every weekend activities.

It was two weeks and you discovered EA, what happened in those two weeks between pivot point and EA discovery? Between the Sunday I quit drinking and my wife beginning the PA nothing unusual happened. I was completely sober and tried to be a nice, less selfish person.

I hope this answers the questions you have Vanilla. I would be happy to answer any more that may arise. I would love to hear your take on my situation. Be well

[mutatio]

One more thing Vanilla, Drinking was only one of my bad habits. I have difficulty being assertive. When I asked my children to do something and they did not do it, I would eventual start yelling because I managed the situation poorly. I was selfish, wanting things my way and bullying to win.

I am ashamed of the man I was then. I am working hard to become the inverse of that foolish misguided wretch of a man.

[gonegrl]

Mutatio, I think it takes a lot of courage to face up to your own faults and admit them and work on them. That said, of course yelling at children is not a good thing, BUT, kids fighting and bickering is extremely annoying and very trying for most of us. I think you are really being very hard on yourself. You recognized your faults and weaknesses and you are improving on them. That is a sign of a strong and good man. I think you should be proud of yourself and hold your head high.

[Vanilla]

Mutatio

I am getting a clearer understanding, thank you.

I have some initial thoughts but am going to research a couple of things. firstly I don't think you had developed into a full rubicon alcoholic although if you hadnt stopped when you did, you would have. There is still a medication effect using alcohol I sense that. It is potentially your weakness so it's fantastic that you gave up.

Having said that, the underlying weakness wasnt addressed and I sense is still there. There are some submission and pleasing issues to address, something fundamentally 'stuck' which I believe needs 'unsticking',

Many many congratulations and this shows you have a very strong self belief system to tackle a major issue like alcohol without twelve steps. The difficulty is that you bypassed a twelve step process. It's not self will or self control as the underlying beliefs changed. This is going to be very important to tap into and is a facility very few people possess. It can be very powerful.

I have to think.

V