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#2601128 08/24/15 04:29 PM
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Noob here....have been lurking and picking up tips here and there...not sure how to proceed...lots of advice abound for women. .none for men...I'm glad I found this board....makes me feel less like I'm losing my mind..
My story...M 10y 12/14..had an EA turned PA 10/06 -6/07, nor making excuses ..found out W was communicating wit X and planning to visit..ego and pride took over(stupid i know)..Sep 12/07-12/08 (moved in w MIL - filed for D..rescinded 01/09)...Rec 01/09 - 03/15..MIL pissed...has been conductimg whisper campaign ever since... (MIL and i do not get along...married and divorced 4x..thinks nothing of just restarting over slightest slight)....M get gradually worse..usual up and downs seem to get more votriolic...W has promotion 6/14..I commented on the possibilty of her now gwtting green light...Sep 04/15...I try to be cordial ..did EVERYTHING RECOMMENDED NOT TO DO..BEGGED PLEADED..AFTER NIGHT OF TEXT ARGUING SHE FILES.
D filed 8/15.
I miss and my kids..think I've left it too late to do anything. ..
How do you combat a MIL committed to destroying your M.? And a W who's firay instinct is to leave or tell tou to leave..I'm not perfect ..am I an idiot for trying ?..for wanting reciprocity? ..
There's a lot I haven't said..first time posting and just unsure of what to do...
Have seen lots of good advice..so any for me ?..thanks


Me:43 W:38
M:10 T:11
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BD: 1/1/15
Sep:4/1/15
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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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SPD - there's tons of advice here for men!

Start by reading the HW. All of it. And the book - Divorce Remedy.

As for here, you mentioned you had an A 7/8 yrs ago. What did you guys do to reconcile afterwards? How did you rebuild?

As for now, what exactly is W upset about? Is there OM?

Sorry to welcome you here, but welcome nonetheless.

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Hi Azzork...

A. was never truly reconciled...I was "told" what to do...let me see your phone anytime...computer etc etc..I agreed to all that...then....found out she was talking to her exes..whereupon i was told..I was trying to control her and keep her from her friends..and her mom abd friends agreed that she could talk to whomsoever she liked...and I can't stop her..
To be honest? I allowed it all as I felt guilty and felt it was my punishment for straying..I accepted years of no intimacy except when she felt like it..which was rare..but I loved her and wanted to make amends. Occasionally I would fall off the wagon and watch porn or go on social media sites for attention. ..then would come the.."you look at porn" I can't fathom having sex with you speech... .my umm we don't have any now..this is me keeping it at home...so long story short we were adept at sweeping under carpet.
As for this time....she's been plotting leaving for awhile (my guess)..when she got a promotion in 6/14..I joked that I expected walking papers now she could be "financially independent"...she claimed then I was crazy ...there are lots of little things that I ignored. ..one day she came home and a colleague "agreed" with her that I didn't want her to lose weight as then other men would find her attractive and approach her....all because since I've known her the only time she gets a health kick is when she wants to impress someone usally male...

Sorry for long response..just I'm a private person..and feels good to get some off my chest...she on the other hand denigrated aND puts me down to everyone...
I read sandi's rules...I have the book..and I realize I've been too logical and may have cock ed things up beyond repair.
Prior to filing for D..she admitted it was a huge mistake moving into her mom's basement with the kids..that 50% of the reason she left was her mother..and it wasn't meant to go this far..she hoped I would miss her and the kids that I would do whatever ie be her doormat...

I know there are at least 3 EAS

Or emotional attachments. ..men that hear her side and agree she "can do better" her term...not sure about PA...
I am trying to be calm...this week she took off work to be withe the kids...today she texts me what time are yu home...she wants to drop my kids off...as she has doctors appointment. ..hour later she texts and thenjoy going to dinner withe work friends....ordinarylying I would ask what friends ...I know who she works with and shes always said who is going...I responded ok...hour later she texts just drop the kids at home if I'm not there.."mom will be there".
This is the woman who when I planned a Fri and Sat night away..just the two of us told her daughter.."I will never anything to help that man"...when I explained to my w...she just shat on our family..as a happy home is good for you me her grandkids..everyone. ..W agreed with MIL..saying she doesn't have to do anything...and you hate my mother...
Any advice.....

Ps what is the HW..and I have th DR book..read through it all..just not sure of there's any point anymore1


Me:43 W:38
M:10 T:11
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BD: 1/1/15
Sep:4/1/15
D filed: 8/12/15
1st court date: 9/22/15
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HW = Homework = My first post!

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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Dropped kids off..MIL came out and spoke to me for first time since sep...I guess now that D is filed. .she's feeling more "comfy"...
She's never watched kids for W & I to have couples time...but now she can watch kids so W cam have dinner with "work friends".
Am I reading too much in it ?


Me:43 W:38
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BD: 1/1/15
Sep:4/1/15
D filed: 8/12/15
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Need advice:
W filed for D, I am reluctant to sign....she accused me of trying to sc**w her as now she has to spend more money, money that could be used for the kids..never mind she moved into her moms baseemnt and completely refurbished it ..to make it livable...my question is do i contest and prolong and hope she changes her mind ?...or do I just sign the papers and move on?...i dont want to get divorced..but i also dont want to antagonize her to the point that any changes arent recognized?
or does that make me too needy..?


Me:43 W:38
M:10 T:11
D:10 S:8
BD: 1/1/15
Sep:4/1/15
D filed: 8/12/15
1st court date: 9/22/15
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Originally Posted By: SPD72
Need advice:
W filed for D, I am reluctant to sign....she accused me of trying to sc**w her as now she has to spend more money, money that could be used for the kids..never mind she moved into her moms baseemnt and completely refurbished it ..to make it livable...my question is do i contest and prolong and hope she changes her mind ?...or do I just sign the papers and move on?...i dont want to get divorced..but i also dont want to antagonize her to the point that any changes arent recognized?
or does that make me too needy..?

First, have you spoken to an attorney yet? I wouldn't sign anything until you get your own legal representation. It doesn't really benefit you to try and contest the D. If your goal is to eventually reconcile, that is not going to help a bit. Your W is marching full steam ahead with it, regardless of whether you like it or not. So definitely protect yourself legally and financially, but do not take measures to deliberately stall. You will likely have a few months even after signing where the D can be withdrawn, and many people are able to R even after the D is final. Remember, the legal D is just a piece of paper. Your W has already ended your M from a mental and emotional perspective. Try not to get hung up on the legal aspects of it too much.

Keep posting, and follow the advice given. It's never too late until you decide that you're done trying.


Me 47 W 42
T 24 yrs M 18 yrs
W living with OM
BD1: 3/7/2015 (A with OM#1)
BD2: 4/11/2015 (A with OM#2, W moves out)
WW filed for D, papers received 9/18/2015.
Meeting to determine child custody 9/29/2015.
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@dhw15

thank you for the response...
I need to a lot of work on myself as i tend to see absolutes.
Have been viewing the D as final nail in coffin...


Me:43 W:38
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In the process of working through my issues..I have a question...I had a LDEA that turned into a LDPA...perhaps spouses who were cheated on could help as my W never wanted to discuss the affair.....merely beat me over the head with it...I overreacted..I owned my mistake..nevertheless I wanted to address the issues that provoked the affair...

At what point was forgiveness freely given?
How can an offending spouse be contrite, remorseful and willing to do anthing to make amends without being abused or a doormat..?

Any other Hs or Ws in a similar predicament with advice?


Me:43 W:38
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Originally Posted By: SPD72
At what point was forgiveness freely given?
How can an offending spouse be contrite, remorseful and willing to do anthing to make amends without being abused or a doormat..?

Any other Hs or Ws in a similar predicament with advice

I am not in this sich however
I would think that each case is different
Their are LBS's here that have said that if their is a physical affair then that is a DEAL breaker.

Not sure if I agree with that however each person has their own limits and boundaries.

My suggestion is to let go of that for now and turn all your attention on to yourself.

How can you become a spouse that only a fool would leave?
What do you need to do if you are going to have a new relationship with someone.

Because that is what is going to have to happen.
Your old marriage is dead and you need to build a new one.
Either with your wife or someone else.

Does that make sense?


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: SPD72
At what point was forgiveness freely given?
How can an offending spouse be contrite, remorseful and willing to do anthing to make amends without being abused or a doormat..?

Any other Hs or Ws in a similar predicament with advice

I am not in this sich however
I would think that each case is different
Their are LBS's here that have said that if their is a physical affair then that is a DEAL breaker.

Not sure if I agree with that however each person has their own limits and boundaries.

My suggestion is to let go of that for now and turn all your attention on to yourself.

How can you become a spouse that only a fool would leave?
What do you need to do if you are going to have a new relationship with someone.

Because that is what is going to have to happen.
Your old marriage is dead and you need to build a new one.
Either with your wife or someone else.

Does that make sense?


^^^^^ x2 x2 x2

I remember when I first joined and Cadet's advice always seemed so cryptic.

But this one is dead on.

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Yes it does.
Thank you. I will have to remember that.


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Hello SPD72,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

You have really good questions regarding forgiveness and how to be remorseful without being a doormat.

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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Ok...new dilemma..taking sandi's rules to heart..

We have 2 young kids in soccer...we agreed to split time at the fields...but she always makes plans..so that she can't stay..
Last night she had a doctors appointment. ..after I agreed to take the kids to soccer she texts me an hour later saying after docs she's going out with "work friends "....I know the people she works with and she has always said I'm going for a drink with x...
I didn't ask who..or where..I merely said ok...
An hour after that she texts..I don't know how long I'll be ...but drop the kids at home ..if I'm not there mom will be (MIL offered her unfinished basement. ..she refurbished ).

Now today :.W: Can you meet me at soccer and watch the kids? I have a board meeting tonight

Ok my dilemma is how do I tell her no without letting my kids down?
I already know the backlash I will receive for not "being there for your kids"

And seeing as I try to see them everyday regardless..I was going to attend but not stay to the end..
Am I being harsh or especially vindictive?

Joining board and reading as opened my eyes

Apologies for another long post....just good to be able to get things off chest..


Me:43 W:38
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Originally Posted By: Azzork
I remember when I first joined and Cadet's advice always seemed so cryptic.

Maybe you are just starting to understand my cryptic-ness! grin grin grin


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: Azzork
I remember when I first joined and Cadet's advice always seemed so cryptic.

Maybe you are just starting to understand my cryptic-ness! grin grin grin


Not sure that's a good thing...

As for your question SPD, I'm confused - you both meet every time for soccer? If not, why don't you lay out a schedule for the season? That way you don't wind up in these pickles.

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We have laid out a schedule ..who takes them on what day etc etc... but on the days i dont take them..I still go to practices to support them...W knowing that schedules personal items during that time..salon..manipedis..

When i dont do as she wants..I get scolded that i never see the kids..and "you would think you would want to spend more time with them"

I guess a my question is in detaching myself and letting her sink or swim...when is it detrimental to the kids?..

I can only assume if I can't go they will stay at home with her mom..which is unfair to them..

Or am I overthinking detachment?


Me:43 W:38
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1st court date: 9/22/15
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It's not that your OVERthinking detachment, you're just not really applying it. It isn't a physical release of her - it's an EMOTIONAL one. So being detached means that you don't take it as a scolding from her, because you already know you're a good dad. Make sense? Read the homework thread - it's really important!

As for the schedule, can you clarify more? Does she come on your days? What kind of custody arrangement is there? If it were me, I would have other things going on during her days...

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Ahhhh..ok..got it..
Told her I could not..no reason..
Went to the movies (fantastic four [censored])

When I called my kids at bedtime (I call every day hear their favorite thing of the day) my S8 was overly agitated. Apparently MIL and SFIL had to fill in..and they were not pleased..

I could hear her in the background rushing them off the phone and hurry up to get to bed..

Made my heart lurch...but I have to allow her to do her and no longer be guilty into enabling her fantasies..


Me:43 W:38
M:10 T:11
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BD: 1/1/15
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D filed: 8/12/15
1st court date: 9/22/15
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Originally Posted By: SPD72
We have laid out a schedule ..who takes them on what day etc etc... but on the days i dont take them..I still go to practices to support them...W knowing that schedules personal items during that time..salon..manipedis..


If you go in my thread, theres a post from Sandi2 copied from tkdmme's thread that I think is dead on about some of this stuff. It's really hard balancing "being a great dad" and "doing favors for a WW/WAW". Are you really going to support them or are you subconsciously trying to show W how much you care about them? I dont KNOW. Just posing the question to you. If it IS the latter, youre wasting your energy AND enabling her.

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SPD,

I feel for you. It seems you are ganged up on by the W and her family. My sitch is different in the fact that (in general) My W's family supports me and what im trying to do.

I have read many times on this site that you cant let other people's actions and negativity to effect what you are trying to accomplish.

I was at dinner some weeks back with the entire in-law family. My MIL basically insulted me in front of everyone and told me to grow up. I was so angry I had to leave the table. When is was returning I stopped short of the door and heard by BIL really letting his mother (My MIL) have it. I waited until things had calmed down. I then walked in and apologized to the MIL and excused myself for the night.

MIL later apologized to me.

I guess the point im trying to make is that anyone can say anything to anyone at anytime and it is out of our control. Even if its not true, there is no point in trying to defend ourselves.

Now, trying to figure out how to be a good dad without enabling your W is a very tricky deal. I have not come close to making this work and I constantly second guess myself. From the advise ive gotten here you got to do what's best for the kids no matter what. I try to pretend that my W and I are business partners at this point. And I try not to expect anything from her.

I hope this helps. I have a tendency to ramble.


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S:7
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Separate BR:3/5/15
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Tkdemme,cadet,Azzork

Appreciate the reach out.
No worries on the rambling tdm ..I tend to do the same...just good to be able to share and get advice in these trying times.

Whats shocking is the situations may be different but the plays are all the same..on one hand I am angry at myself doing things the wrong way for so long..other hand glad i searched, found this board and people not only in similar situations but men willing to fight for their family life...

As for the balance between great dad and not being used by WAS..IT'S HARD MAN.

I try to see my kids daily...I don't see them if I have to work or if W made plans ..but we talk daily..

I got a second job, so that I can meet all my obligations ..and that makes it doubly hard..to answer your question Azzork I've always gone to every practice, it's not something I started since BD... I don't want to change my interactions with my kids because of the problems with W.

Gave this alot of thought last night perhaps too much...
Am I angry that she's using me as a babysitter so she can go and do whatever?
Should I even care..?.as I am around my kids and they happy to have me around..
She knows my kids are my life and soul..


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Originally Posted By: SPD72
As for the balance between great dad and not being used by WAS..IT'S HARD MAN.

I try to see my kids daily...I don't see them if I have to work or if W made plans ..but we talk daily..

I got a second job, so that I can meet all my obligations ..and that makes it doubly hard..to answer your question Azzork I've always gone to every practice, it's not something I started since BD... I don't want to change my interactions with my kids because of the problems with W.

Unfortunately, your relationship IS going to change, at least somewhat. So it's time to prioritize.

Originally Posted By: spd72

Am I angry that she's using me as a babysitter so she can go and do whatever? Should I even care..?

It depends what your goals are. Is it to be married to her again?

If so, you may need to shift HOW you parent. You should not sacrifice being a great dad. But you may need to re-examine what it means to be a great dad.

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Originally Posted By: Azzork
Originally Posted By: SPD72
As for the balance between great dad and not being used by WAS..IT'S HARD MAN.

I try to see my kids daily...I don't see them if I have to work or if W made plans ..but we talk daily..

I got a second job, so that I can meet all my obligations ..and that makes it doubly hard..to answer your question Azzork I've always gone to every practice, it's not something I started since BD... I don't want to change my interactions with my kids because of the problems with W.

Unfortunately, your relationship IS going to change, at least somewhat. So it's time to prioritize.

Originally Posted By: spd72

Am I angry that she's using me as a babysitter so she can go and do whatever? Should I even care..?

It depends what your goals are. Is it to be married to her again?

**I honestly don't know if I want to be with her anymore..the level of vitriol and historical revision not to mention her complete lack of accountability..her family's incessant undermining and whisper campaign...and her pollyanna disneyesque vision of relationships has at times driven me to think "good riddance to bad rubbish".

Her I was the "perfect wife" and "one day you'll regret me leaving" and " I'm in hell (at her mothers) and you put me here " speeches makes me seethe...

Before i came here i responded to all that fire for fire..I'm human..I just wabt to be treated fairly...my LDAs were 8 yrs ago..I did everyting she asked..when i tried to explain that thetr was no excuse for the choice i made it wasnt made in a vaccum...I was denounced as repulsive and lacking in character.
I know this is just the anger /ego phase, but it is also an honest reflection.

I am no saint I fully owned up to my shortcomings and fears. I was adopted, adopted family became blended..ADULTS made my early years horrendous..I researched my biologicals..found them nasically told "I dont want you messing up the life i have built" so i have a few issues regarding family dynamics.
***

If so, you may need to shift HOW you parent. You should not sacrifice being a great dad. But you may need to re-examine what it means to be a great dad.

***Can you explain further..due to my own experiences as a child I was always fully involved with my kids as I wanted them to know baring something drastic I WOULD BE THERE..***


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It depends what your goals are. Is it to be married to her again?

**I honestly don't know if I want to be with her anymore..the level of vitriol and historical revision not to mention her complete lack of accountability..her family's incessant undermining and whisper campaign...and her pollyanna disneyesque vision of relationships has at times driven me to think "good riddance to bad rubbish".

Her I was the "perfect wife" and "one day you'll regret me leaving" and " I'm in hell (at her mothers) and you put me here " speeches makes me seethe...

Before i came here i responded to all that fire for fire..I'm human..I just wabt to be treated fairly...my LDAs were 8 yrs ago..I did everyting she asked..when i tried to explain that thetr was no excuse for the choice i made it wasnt made in a vaccum...I was denounced as repulsive and lacking in character.
I know this is just the anger /ego phase, but it is also an honest reflection.

I am no saint I fully owned up to my shortcomings and fears. I was adopted, adopted family became blended..ADULTS made my early years horrendous..I researched my biologicals..found them nasically told "I dont want you messing up the life i have built" so i have a few issues regarding family dynamics.
***


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Originally Posted By: SPD72
I honestly don't know if I want to be with her anymore..the level of vitriol and historical revision not to mention her complete lack of accountability..her family's incessant undermining and whisper campaign...and her pollyanna disneyesque vision of relationships has at times driven me to think "good riddance to bad rubbish".

Her I was the "perfect wife" and "one day you'll regret me leaving" and " I'm in hell (at her mothers) and you put me here " speeches makes me seethe...

Before i came here i responded to all that fire for fire..I'm human..I just wabt to be treated fairly...my LDAs were 8 yrs ago..I did everyting she asked..when i tried to explain that thetr was no excuse for the choice i made it wasnt made in a vaccum...I was denounced as repulsive and lacking in character.
I know this is just the anger /ego phase, but it is also an honest reflection.

I am no saint I fully owned up to my shortcomings and fears. I was adopted, adopted family became blended..ADULTS made my early years horrendous..I researched my biologicals..found them nasically told "I dont want you messing up the life i have built" so i have a few issues regarding family dynamics.

Nobody here wants their spouse as they currently are. Because they are walking away, they are going to do EVERYTHING in their power to turn YOU into the enemy. As such, they NEED you to ACT as the bad guy to alleviate their guilt and prove to them that they are making the right decision.

Who would want to be with that? Thats why the advice here is to take the focus off of her. Who cares if you want to be with her right now...since she doesnt want to be with you, that option is off of the table. Focus on you and become the SPD72 that only a fool would leave. Once she decides that she is interested in reconciling, only then do you need to worry about the crap that shes pulling right now.


Originally Posted By: SPD72
Can you explain further..due to my own experiences as a child I was always fully involved with my kids as I wanted them to know baring something drastic I WOULD BE THERE..

All Im saying is that you wont be there 100% of the time for your kids. Your kid wakes up with a nightmare at 3 AM on your W's night...you arent going to be there.

With that in mind, you need to decide what is important to you. If you need to be at every soccer practice, your W is going to use that to her advantage (as you can see). Im sure that will extend to other things, and I fear you will find yourself becoming a babysitter more than you probably intend.

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Good points Azzork. ..

As I miss my W...the pre metamorphosized version..

It's really good to have someone without an ax to grind objectively talking you down form the ledge...

Thought long and hard last night...
I need more GAL time and I need to start on my goals and cease worrying about Ws motives..

On separate note S8 is acting out not listening to W or MIL...being openly defiant..so had him over for a chat and sone ice cream last night...he hates being at grandma's house..hates sharing a room with his sister ...doesn't like that "they talk about you (me)..and they don't know I sit on the stairs and listen ".
And "why can't we live in the same house anymore?"

I told him to listen to mommy and grandma and he can always talk to me..I'll always be his dad..I'll always love him..then I almost lost it..he asks..."what if I do something bad..?"...I could just hold him and say daddy will always love you and be here...

Any advice on how to not handle..but defuse the situation?
We raise out kids to believer in the family unit... in redemption...that no matter what happens. .they'll be loved
Then they're world is ripped apart and a simple question
Why can't you just say I'm sorry and fix it is asked..

I'm lost for words...


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Good morning SPD, I just read your thread. It seems to me that as a husband your path is to model good behavior and react to your wife's actions with good choices. On the other hand as a father you have much more leeway.

You like going to soccer, go to soccer. Why are you going? For the kids? For your wife? My guess is for the kids. Don't you think the kids feel good seeing you there. Your wife uses it to her advantage, big deal, the kids are the prize. In this moment your wife is not close to being the prize. Grab every opportunity your wife gives you to be with them. You should be grateful to your wife for strengthening your role as a father.

Focus on the kids, focus on yourself. Give all your love to your kids. Be there for them, be their rock. This is a scary time for them. It is in their best interest for you to model your best behavior as their father. You will never regret fully supporting your children. If not you who? Your wife? She's to busy melting down. Your MIL and SFIL? They don't want to, their babysitters.

I have no good advice about how to handle your wife accept what I said at the beginning. As this storm is raging over your family, let your kids see the calm in your eyes. At this time, this your path, they are your life. You will make an incredible difference in their lives.

You got something better to do?



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Originally Posted By: SPD72
Thought long and hard last night...
I need more GAL time and I need to start on my goals and cease worrying about Ws motives..

Yes. Good!


Originally Posted By: SPD72

On separate note S8 is acting out not listening to W or MIL...being openly defiant..so had him over for a chat and sone ice cream last night...he hates being at grandma's house..hates sharing a room with his sister ...doesn't like that "they talk about you (me)..and they don't know I sit on the stairs and listen ".
And "why can't we live in the same house anymore?"

I told him to listen to mommy and grandma and he can always talk to me..I'll always be his dad..I'll always love him..then I almost lost it..he asks..."what if I do something bad..?"...I could just hold him and say daddy will always love you and be here...

Any advice on how to not handle..but defuse the situation?
We raise out kids to believer in the family unit... in redemption...that no matter what happens. .they'll be loved
Then they're world is ripped apart and a simple question
Why can't you just say I'm sorry and fix it is asked..

I'm lost for words...

It's tough. My kids havent asked exactly the same questions, but pretty similar. All you can do is explain as clearly and simply as possible about whats going on - sometimes grown ups decide they dont want to be married anymore, but that doesnt change how we feel about you...youll always be my son/daughter, and I will always be here for you and love you.

I would NOT give them too many details yet about whats going on actually. I would NOT try to pin your W as the "bad guy".

You may want to investigate some kind of professional counseling.

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Originally Posted By: mutatio

You like going to soccer, go to soccer. Why are you going? For the kids? For your wife? My guess is for the kids. Don't you think the kids feel good seeing you there.


I am all for being the best father out there. Don't get me wrong. Your relationship with your children is the most important one there is. I have two young kids myself.

But, I dont feel like I need to make it a point to go out of my way to spend time with them when my wife has them. If theres something important (a teacher conference, a ballet recital, etc), Im there. But I feel like it is more important to me to let my wife live her life than to be at every single gymnastics practice. In addition, I need to have my own time to GAL - if I am spending all of the nights she has the kids being around, I will never have any time to myself to go out and meet new people and do new things. GAL with the kids is GREAT, but it CANNOT be my only method.

Thats just my opinion, not sure about the DB "rules" on it. But thats how Ive been handling things.

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I agree with you Azzork. What I was trying to say in my rant was to be there for the kids if she abandons her duties and the kids get left on the lurch.

The kids need their mother too. I might have misread the situation and thought she was inconvenienced by them.

Sorry SPD for the confusion, a double espresso can sure get the motor revving in the morning.



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Mutatio/Azzork

Thank you you both make excellent points....

I go to their daily practices because I enjoy but also because I have nothing else to do...I usually gym in the AM....and prior to separation my afternoons were spent with the kids..

I am hyper aware that W will use this to her advantage ..the trick (wrong choice of word ) for me is to not let myself get caught up in focusing on her.

This morning I started sandi2's LBH thread...man oh man...it was like Sandi2 was there recording everything W said. The problem Im having is..I dont want to get caught up in whether W is a WAW or a WW..as again it takes focus away from me and I might start trying to match my actions to a label as opposed to working on me daily..and let the future take care of itself.

Today like clockwork W texts me..are you home?
like the pavlovian lab rat i am...I almost answered then i remember shes a neighbour...if its important she'll call back..its now 8:17...and no call or text back....so i can only assume you wanted me to watch the kids at soccer so she can go run "errands".

Part of me dreads when we do speak..as the accusations will fly..."youre never there me"..."this shows me i made the right choice"...thankfully I already read the script and am better armed to handle these manipulations.

ok..time to get some homework in..


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Today I woke up energized an ready to tackle anything..I have DR and bought DB..going to really apply what I've learnt..open up my emails...and see emails from hulu netflix..etc email change from family email box to Ws email address...and storm clouds roll in...

She has been gone for almost 5 months..why do I still feel this way...she's filed..I initially said I won't sign..but after being on the boards I've seen the light .why fight only for it to be granted after time anyway?

Just cut my losses now......and be done..
This morning on Tkd's thread..Cali/dwh/Azzork discussed whether you would continue DB if there was a slim chance vs a zero chance at R...

I'll be honest..these threads and the homework has caused an introspection that I've skimmed briefly or shied away from completely in the past..
Am I that bad?..was being married to me that horibble?..is it worth it?...
She moved into her mom's basement. ..sheesh I must have been...

I came to DB late, so all the angst of living with her for 3 months prior to her leaving is over ....reading some threads I relive them...I shes the tears of commiseration as I was there...
I wanted her gone so I could move on..but that brought on a different set of angst..

This being the Internet in am loathe to put too much down..but writing stuff down helps..I found my old journals from a few years ago...I was in bad shape and I buried my feelings my wants my needs..I lost myself in order to remain with someone who ultimately was just biding her time to leave..

On sandi2's recent thread she asked why men didnt want to anger their wives..honestly i thought i loved her but it was because i was so broken i didnt where i would go when she left me..my identity was tied up in being married with kids..I wasn't me anymore..

Tbc...


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SPD

I am not fully caught up on your sitch .... however...

Quote:
I came to DB late, so all the angst of living with her for 3 months prior to her leaving is over


This .. along with some other comments from up there ^^^

My BD was SEP13, she moved out 2 months later, at the time I was more in the mind set ... go ahead, see what its like without me ... our M was not the best and I almost welcomed the break. Holidays hit ... ok that was tough, maybe I actually want my W and to be M I found myself saying. Jan14 OM was disclosed ... back to Nope, I am done .. like you 0% chance of R and I was going to just live my life.

After all that, some time, some self inspection I realized I did in fact want my M, my W and my family. I then started making some changes, during that time I found this place .. what ... 10 months or so after BD .... so no .. you did not find this place to late.

Its never to late to DB, but what you do need to do is figure out what YOU want. Thats all anyone here can really do ... does not mean you will get what YOU want, but I promise you that if you DB, GAL, detach a bit ... find yourself and do the work ... regardless if you divorce, reconcile, drop the rope ... you will be a better person, your next/new relationship (with WHO-ever that is going to be) will be a much better one for all the work you do now, all the lessons you learn.

I used to flip the middle finger when people here would say "Use this gift of time" .... I now have to 2x4 myself for that, it was truly a gift, I regret not doing more work, becoming even stronger than I am now.

Decide what you want
Set some Personal Goals
Realize somethings are out of your hands... but YOU control YOU.

Last edited by CaliGuy; 08/28/15 04:47 PM.

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Sooooo...just got home...my weekend with my kids..normally I pick them up. W is parked in front of my condo....dressed to the nines...took me a minute...she never wears much make up..but she looked great..
Smiled said hi..you look nice...
she said thank you ..I just called and i texted you last night and this afternoon..why didnt you answer..?
Me: last night my phone was dead
Her : uh huh sure
Me: today work was a mare..
left it at that...got my kids and walked away..
So I guess there is an OM.heart sank..but didn't question or frown...smile and wave boys...smile and wave..
Ugh...why do I care?
Had weekend all planned...now in a little funk...
The logical side is saying ....see why do you care what she thinks...she's rubbing that s&*&&= in your face...


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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
SPD

I am not fully caught up on your sitch .... however...

Quote:
I came to DB late, so all the angst of living with her for 3 months prior to her leaving is over


This .. along with some other comments from up there ^^^

My BD was SEP13, she moved out 2 months later, at the time I was more in the mind set ... go ahead, see what its like without me ... our M was not the best and I almost welcomed the break. Holidays hit ... ok that was tough, maybe I actually want my W and to be M I found myself saying. Jan14 OM was disclosed ... back to Nope, I am done .. like you 0% chance of R and I was going to just live my life.

After all that, some time, some self inspection I realized I did in fact want my M, my W and my family. I then started making some changes, during that time I found this place .. what ... 10 months or so after BD .... so no .. you did not find this place to late.

Its never to late to DB, but what you do need to do is figure out what YOU want. Thats all anyone here can really do ... does not mean you will get what YOU want, but I promise you that if you DB, GAL, detach a bit ... find yourself and do the work ... regardless if you divorce, reconcile, drop the rope ... you will be a better person, your next/new relationship (with WHO-ever that is going to be) will be a much better one for all the work you do now, all the lessons you learn.

I used to flip the middle finger when people here would say "Use this gift of time" .... I now have to 2x4 myself for that, it was truly a gift, I regret not doing more work, becoming even stronger than I am now.

Decide what you want
Set some Personal Goals
Realize somethings are out of your hands... but YOU control YOU.


Cali ..thanks for reaching out...went back and stared reading your thread from the beginning...man...oh man...I need you patience wisdom and guidance....
When she left in April ..it was cordial we went places as a family ...we spoke daily...texted as if nothing had happened..to be fair I said to her you're having a rough time adjusting to being back under your mom's roof..but once your settled...you'll be as abusive to me as you were in the house..
She was meant to be in the basement which she was renovating out of pocket so it was taking time..in the interim she was sleeping in the spare room with the kids...which was her mothers bedroom (she moved out of master bedroom of her 4th or was it 5th husband...2 years in the marriage...W was getting harried to finish so mom can move back to her room)

I like an idiot took her sadness at the situation as meh..this will be over soon
May was pleasant enough argument here.and there but I was happy to go home into my own space..June we had a weekend soccer tournament and one room. .she was adamant I should stay it would be good for the kids Yada yadda..

Friday night I got there late..as we weren't really in that place I got into bed with my son...she woke up and said don't be silly..come to bed..
I'm like yes finally..but I did nothing didn't cuddle didn't approach her..just felt good to be next to her for first time in two months.

Next day I'm all chipper family guy we are at the beach...I'm the pack mule..the waiter..general dogsbody...I'm husband catering to his wife ..I say it's nice being here with you guys. .she responses well you didn't touch me last night...
Me: errr..I didn't think you would want me to considering
Bear in mind at this point we probably had sex maybe twice in the preceding 6 months..
Her: you should try tonight
Me: hubba hubba

That night..sex was attempted...pardon the graphic nature..she stops me mid stroke.
Her: I can't ..I'm sorry... I don't know if you're [censored] someone right now
Me: huh
Her: well it hasn't gone how I thought it would
Me: excuse me
Her: well I figured you would miss me and the kids so much you would be doing anything I wanted and begging me to come back..instead it seems like you are quite happy to go home alone every night and have all the free time to do as you please. .....must be nice..
Me: (angrily ) you chose to leave I begged and pleaded and you Chose to leave..you got wonky freaky advice from *(mother of one of my son's friends..who divorced her h..took him to the cleaners..and wants my w as a wingman..found texts from her egging on my wife ..how cool it would be to double date)
Her: it's your fault you gave me no choice
Me: fine whatever..
Weekend ruined ..next day barely spoke..planned to extend to monday..no dice...she storming around hotel..even other parents asking me what's wrong with her..
July...defcon 3..arguments daily..rehashing my 8yr old affair..me countering..she well I didn't cheat..
Me: I don't know if you pulled the trigger but it was set up...
Escalation escalation...
Mid july...let's move away...huh?
I can't live here anymore..
I can't do it..
Let's move away...you can live nearby
Excuse me?
Well I can't give up guarantees we will get back together..
Me: that won't work for me..
Im.not helping you move to another state to be with someone else just for you to keep status quo and then tell me I did say there no guarantees. ..
She gets pissy..
Then I made fatal mistake...
Me: this is bullsh***..when you file make sure and change your name back to your own
Her: what?..I don't have any money but when I file IM keeping the same name as my kids
Me: whatever...if you don't file I will when I have the money..
This was a Sunday afternoon
Monday morning she texts me I'm going to an attorney tonight ..week later..I was served..
I then compounded the error by refusing to sign the papers...


**Now I left out chunks..where she would claim she made a mistake..but she never said she missed ME..IT was the house..her own space etc etc
When I found this site it was really a last ditch hail mary knee her reaction
Deep in my heart I know I love my wife and kids and want nothing but to turn the clock back or a least have a do over...

Since i joined DB and started reading DR i know i messed up royally..
On a separate note i have decided to sigm the divorce and boldly move forward...
Ok that's a lot..going to enjoy my kids..
Peace


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Understood.

Thing is .. the D is not the final blow, you have kids, you two will always have that bond together. You can easily DB now and who knows ... sometimes they need that D paper in hand to realize it was not just you making them miserable.

All that ^^^^ read it again to yourself ... this time take out any hint that YOU would push/want D. Maybe it does not escalate as much .. possible does not push her to file first to cast the first stone.

My advice ... read Sandis 37 and hold to them
REad Wonka's Validation Cheat sheet.
NEVER and I mean NEVER initiate an R talk

If you are going LRT you need a speed DB course and holding to those 3 things I mentioned will serve you well ... again .. remember it took you some time to get to a place in your M that is this bad .... its going to take time to dig out, especially since you are the only one with a shovel .


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SPD, you can't put out the fire with gasoline.

Take Cali's advice.



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Thanks for the advice...Ive printed the 37 rules so I can read daily.....need to work on my validation..or rather keep my ego and pride in check as some of the things she says are either downright manipulative or a complete revision of events...we have not truly spoken in maybe 2 months..all our interaction has been through texts...

Ive been sleeping okay for the last 6 weeks or so..last night was kind of rough..knowing shes dating..or at least seeing someone..part feels that was pretty low to "flaunt" it that way or maybe I'm reading too much into it..
It did however reinforce that I need to GAL more..and not sit around the house after work..

Kids still asleep...😲😲..my S8 having a hard time..crawled into my bed last night..I really worry about him...do my best to reassure him I'll be around..and I love him..


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Today was a good day..took kids to amusement park..and then....BOOM..dropped them off..on way home phone rings..darn it's the missus..we've not spoken in a month.. (just texted logistical and financial kiddie stuff)....I hesitate..gonna be bad news...

I suck it up and answer. ...."you left my kid on a bench in an amusement"..." errr I an understand why you're upset but I could see him the whole time and he didn't want to go on the rude but D10 did..and she didn't want to do it alone...sniffles on the line he's 8...click..

Thought to myself ...oh shoot..there goes my visitation rights with CPS looking on..probably have to be plexiglassed. .

That lasted all of 2 secs...meh...whatever...20mins later texts come flying through...
Grabbed a beer...sat down....mulled and wrote back.:
"W. I can understand why you would be upset..in retrospect it probably wasn't the smartest thing to do..I didn't see it as a big deal at the time. I'm sorry."

5mins later I get :Please protect them! They are my entire world!

No reponse from me...

Good night Vienna..finished beer..going to reread DB ...need to focus on my detachment..


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Originally Posted By: SPD72
I suck it up and answer. ...."you left my kid on a bench in an amusement"..." errr I an understand why you're upset but I could see him the whole time and he didn't want to go on the rude but D10 did..and she didn't want to do it alone...sniffles on the line he's 8...click..


Originally Posted By: SPD72

"W. I can understand why you would be upset..in retrospect it probably wasn't the smartest thing to do..I didn't see it as a big deal at the time. I'm sorry."


If the first part is true, why are you sorry? Do you think you were wrong?

I am so quick to say "I'm sorry" too, but I realized that if W and I disagree, I don't need to be sorry if I think I'm correct. Just because she's upset with my choice doesn't mean I need to be sorry for it.

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Ahhh..master azzork..you are so tough....
The truth of the matter he was being a little $hit all day....didn't want to ride....came in the line got about halfway in....changed his mind...so yeah I told it was unfair to do that...walked him to a bench (still in visual contact)..walked back to my D10 ...waved at him before got on ride..while on ride and when got off. .

IM waiting on the blowout for the 30 yards (all totally visible)walked to get a hot dog when my D10 was in line for another ride...I could see them both..
Honestly I don't want to deal...

What would have a better response ?


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Without regards to W's opinion, if you were in the same situation again, what would you do?

In my mind, I think the main concern is while you were on the ride. Maybe next time you would have him walk to where you'd get off the ride instead of on a bench in the middle of the park? I'm not sure. But I don't see anything wrong with having him sit on a bench while you waited in line.

Her feelings are hers. And they are valid. So you can and should validate. But that doesn't mean you have to AGREE with them. Or be sorry you don't agree.

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Ok..understood...
And the bench wasn't in the middle of the park..sorry was just recounting her hyperbole . it WAS smack in front of the ride..right by the exit..which was on an elevated platform..so i could see him..practically the entire time...in the cold morning light I realize it was just something she wanted to *highlight*...


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Journaling:
Sunday GALed (one L or two)..went out last night and laughed the hardest I have had in perhaps a decade...
Started reading Divorce Busting...finished DR...will reread more once finished DB.

Woke up this morning with a clarity I haven't felt for maybe 18/19 years..back when I thought everything was possible..
Or maybe I'm hallucinating as its starting to make sense..my stumbling blocks are ego pride and impatience...

I am realizing this is no longer about my W. I've been laid low..forces to confront myself, forced to look inwards and be honest with myself and the type of human being I want to be...someone will recognize in me the attributes they desire and want. It may be my STXW and it may not. That is for me to ascertain whether she has the attributes I seek to let into my new world. Inasmuch as I would like it to be her....it is not up to me...

I am not naive ...I know this is a good day so far and there will be many more dark days..it's just refreshing to realize it isn't the end. I have wasted many years getting back at...wanting to be right..showing you..and all the other petty vicious cycle routines that ultimate degrades a soul...

Along with this moment of clarity comes a slew of goals some as trivial as drinking a minimun of 6 16.9 Oz bottles of water a day to renewing my ppl ssion for flying... renewing my ppl and passion for flying ..going back to school to get an MBA to complement my MA...starting my own company. .. dreams I had allowed to be dismissed crushed and ridiculed..that I had buried and procrastinated over..

NeW day...baby steps.....baby steps..


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Epic fail tonight....W called 10 mins after I spoke to kids about their day...I ignored...
Text comes through: Are you ever going to be accessible by phone ??????
I bit...called her..she wanted to discuss S8 worsening behavior...she can't handle him anymore ..openly defis MIL...promise to have a chat in the morning...talk turns to custody agreement and D...she filed for sole physicAL and joint legal. ..

I said I'm not agreeing to that...I want shared custody. Apparently that was the wrong thing to say. ..vitriol ..I'm not giving yout half of the kids because they are my life....I'm not signing that because I'm afraid you'll run away with the kids..on and on..finally you better get a lawyer...

Mistake 1: I try reasoning...I want to be a full time dad. .not every other weekend..no dice ..she raised these kids by herself for 10 years.. ( yet not 20mins earlier..you need to talk to your son he only listens to you )..
Finally she relents..o have to see what shared custody means ..I won't let you have them 50% of the time.
Me: ok..go find out..let me know so we can draw up our own agreement..

In between this she's trying to get my D10 to go to bed..finally I said ..lol it sounds like you're busy..she screams I'm busy with yur children ..hangs up...

Mistake 2: I texted: You do know you've won right?...youve gotten eevrything you want.. there is no need to be rude and or hostile to me.
5 mins later text comes through:..I will be happy when you sign the papers and this is over. I'm just ready H..I need closure.
Me: good night

I know all the mantras. .believe less than 50%.etc etc
..work on yourself etc bit I'm human..I know I'm not meant to focus on her
But how she be so emotionless..and cold and downright mean..
My fear is my resentment at my treatment the vitriol..the hyperbole would make any type of R or even friendship nigh on impossible. ( i know i know she doesnt want me anyway..so why bother)..The best is latent hostility overlaid by a sheer veneer of civility

I know I'm angry and yes scared..but will probably flip.flop.
Any LBSs with similar feelings? ..did they dissipate? Were you able to get beyond the hurt?
Just feels beyond hopeless..should really get to bed..


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SPD - Its time to at least consult with a lawyer. Find out what your rights actually are. You dont have to agree to anything she proposes and theres no sense in fighting with her bout it. Talk to a lawyer and see whats reasonable..

And I think you know that text was a waste. What did you think she was going to say?

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I know I should but I don't want to fight..I'll win nothing..I just want to spend time equal time with my kids..by her responses it's clear its a game to her and she wants to "win".
I will be a statistic but I won't be one of those people..it's not me..I'll plead my car to court and let them decide..

Right now I work between 70 and 80 hrs a week so it's not like I need a decision right now. One of my goals is to find a new job so I can petition to have them 3 days a week ...split holidays and birthdays and half of summer/spring/fall breaks...
I'm not asking for anything unreasonable. ..

I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that any hope of R is well and truly buried...I read MWD FB DBs that Cadet posted...and the 2 that resonate most are the extended family issues and inability to accept personal responsibility.

I don't think it will ever hit her that it takes two..I've made so many excuses for her..I enabled her to treat my like dirt...my remorse has been used as a cudgel to bludgeon me and as a crutch by her to never have to look at herself as being 50% culpable...

I know I'm venting..I can't help it ...I found notebooks with my written journals from years ago...the same issues were highlighted trough out marriage ..make me a priority. .not your mother not your friends..plan time for us..
I enabled...enabled..and enabled somemore..fear of being alone..fear of my children growing up in a broken home..
My own childhood memories of seeing intact families and wanting to be a part of one

Sitting in bathroom at work ..crying my eyes out like a [censored] idiot...haven't tld anyone at work yet..feel like a complete failure...hopes and drears as kid that one day my kids won't have to go through what I did..crumbles in the dust...

Men and fathers are not meant to feel or think like this right?..we are meant to rejoice in our freedom. ..yaaahhh...whoohoooo..I miss walking into my kids room at night and rearranging them on the bed....
Damn damn damn...
I need to get back to work...
Dry eyes...
Project confidence. ..


Me:43 W:38
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SPD -
Theres a BIG difference between arguing and fighting. If you dont fight to have your kids, who's going to do it for you?

Im not saying you need to HIRE a lawyer. But go talk to one. Im SURE your wife has.

Knowledge is power, SPD. And you can use whatever you can get.

For me, my W was willing to give half custody. And because of that, I barely fought on the other stuff. Money, cars, things....I dont care that much about that if I have my time with my kids.

As for the other stuff, it takes 2 for a marriage to break down to this point. Own your half and find out how to forgive yourself. You cant worry about your W and her half.

Wishing you strength today.

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SPF72,

I know how you feel. It is awful not being able to spend time with our children. My wife is using them as a tool to hurt me. She knows what she is doing is not what is best for the kids. I hope that the Judge will see what she is doing and change the temporary custody order. When she goes out of town the she does not even offer for the kids to be with me. She gives them to her mother who hates me and I find out the next week from the kids what happened. I am their dad for crying out loud. I am more important to them that you Mother.

What is you first court day for? Is it custody or financial?


Me: 30's W: 30's M: 12yrs
EA: Started 3/2015
MC Started: 4/2015
She moved out and served 6/2015
PA: Confirmed 10/5/2015
2 young kids

"If you do not stand for something you will fall for anything."
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Hi whyus

I have to read up on your sitch....I thought I was the only one with extended family pushing for D and undermining M.

I feel your pain...as my MIL is pushing for me to have limited contact..
I'm sorry that you have to go through this senseless vindictiveness. ...

1st court date is for custody...I don't want to fight or create drama.
I don't want some random person telling me when and how I can see my kids..
You would think the mother would want what's best for the kids..
And nowhere in her argument is there a kid reference or rational...it's all I don't want you to have that time
What??..really? ?
...IM not asking for the world ..just equal time..
And I get "everytime you have them I won't have them..."

Contacted a few lawyers this am. So we will see..


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SPD -
Sad to say it, but your W wants whats best for your W.
If you dont fight for your kids, nobody else will.

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Contacted lawyer ..initial conference 9/8..
Have been GALing...and digging deep..the more I read the more I realize I have to truly decide whether I want to be married to my W or if it's just fear of befinning a chapter..

Yesterday was meet the teacher night..she called to get our ducks on a row..over the last 2 months or so that would have been a text..so?..slight shift in the glacier...it was her day to pick up the kids from the babysitter..but with the running around PT night and soccer..it was going to be tight...

I offered to get the kids..get dinner for them change for soccer etc etc..
She got of work late, so I went to my D10 conference alone..left them in my apartment..so she can take D10 to soccer and meet me for S8 conference.
After I left I asked myself is this lighthouse or advantage?..

Had a good conference with D10 teacher..made notes for her too. She comes to S8 conference teary eyed.. I ask a few times what's the matter ..she blew me off and was on phone non stop texting back forth..getting visibly upset.
I remained impassive..genial ..played with my S8..Listened to presentation. .paid her not much attention..

Conference ends I race to get D10 from soccer she takes S8 home. I get there she's I'm the garden on her phone..I pleasantly wish my D10 good night help her carry her bags halfway to th e driveway (I dont approach their new home which is basement of MIL house)

Ordinarily she doesn't come up the drive to say anything to me...tonight she does. .ushers the D10 inside..with I need to talk to daddy...not reading too much but surprised me as normally it's your dad..
Again I ask are you alright? (Again not sure if appropriate but am new and regardless of where we are she is still my wife ..I didn't marry her on a whim so I am still concerned about her)..

She starts crying .."no the washing machine broke and flooded the basement...it's been running for hours..mom called but I was busy..so she is pissed I didn't pick up.. (little back story..mom encouraged her to leave me with "you can have the basement"..because she isnt allowed to libe in the "main house, as the kids are messy..you need to train your dog etc etx "..she refurbished the basement..everything is new..drywall carpets ...stove fridge wd..the works. .on essentially my dime )

OK..LONG ENOUGH..


Me:43 W:38
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PT II:

So she really starts sobbing ...I move to hug her ..she moves towards me then stops and says dont.."they're watching me and they will have some thing to say"...for a minute I was stumped. .and then I felt nothing..just a surge of relief ..a lifting of a weight..it was as if I finally understood..this isn't about me..well it is bit it isnt..if that makes sense..

She filled in the rest of the story..MIL went down to fix problem..fell hurt herself. .SFIL left work early to tend to her..W beside herself as at that time 8pm..she had not gone upstairs to "check on MIL..and ask how she was and thank her for trying to help and Thank SFIL for leaving work early. .etc etc

MIL worried that carpet will stink up her "whole house"...and all the work the that was done paid for by W and myself that is damaged..
I validate ..I can see how this would be very stressful..
Listened some more..then left.
On the way home I thought wow...I can't hug my wife because my MIL and SFIL would give her [censored] about being weak and manipulated ...I laughed out loud..actually cackled at the absurdity of it all..like wow..isn't this some crazy &!&##£.

When I got home ..I sent her a text :Sorry I wasn't able to give you a hug tonight ..you looked like you could have used one..
Her:I could have. What time are you going to bed?
I did see that for 30mins..
When I did I said just got into bed why what do you need..
Her : Was going to come over and do laundry
Now bear in mind her sister lived equidistant away from MIL as I do..
And MIL had a laundry room upstairs. .

Don't get me wrong I'm not reading into this about me..I just feel bad for her..she allowed herself to for want of a better word to be used..
Anyway here is where I need help ...I sent this..:
You can ...I can leave the door open tomorrow when I leave for work
She says ok.
This morning I wrote:Good morning ..door is open..I left my ***card on the table if you need it..my laptop is already open on netflix for D10. .if you take the iPad for s8 it should link up with the wifi
Her :Ok, thank you..I didn't sleep at all
Me: I can see that you have a lot to deal with..
No more contact for about 2 hours

Then: text..: I can't stop crying, why can't I pull it together?
Me: I am truly sorry about the washing machine and the damage it caused..I can only imagine that the stress and worry can't be easy for you at all ..anything I can do to help let me know..
Her:Thank you for your support..Just tired.Tired of having to answer for everything

I haven't responded. ...I think I have validated enough...what else can I say...?..am I being too helpful..
I am happy to do what I can not to get her back but because most of that laundry is my kids..

Any advice from vets?..how did I handle it ..anything I could have ? Or can do better?..do I respond to her last comment?..as what point am I doing too much if there ever is a point..


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Quote:
Again I ask are you alright? (Again not sure if appropriate but am new and regardless of where we are she is still my wife ..I didn't marry her on a whim so I am still concerned about her)..


Why are you giving excuses or being defensive about why you asked her about her feelings? I think you felt it was something you should not pursue........but you wanted to........so you did.

Quote:
Her : Was going to come over and do laundry
Now bear in mind her sister lived equidistant away from MIL as I do..
And MIL had a laundry room upstairs. .

[quote]Don't get me wrong I'm not reading into this about me..I just feel bad for her..she allowed herself to for want of a better word to be used..


You need to be honest with yourself.

Quote:
I haven't responded. ...I think I have validated enough...what else can I say...?..am I being too helpful..
I am happy to do what I can not to get her back but because most of that laundry is my kids..


Come on, SPD, get real with yourself.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Sandi2

I'm confused...should I not have helped her?
Or should I not have questioned or defended why I helped her?
If you were in her position..would you have wanted your H to help? told you to figure it out on your own?
If if he did help in the way that I did..what would you have thought?

I know no 2 people think alike and situations are different..
Perhaps I am overanalyzing...
I am aware to have no expectations..maybe I should have worded differently to say I know this act won't lead to a light bulb going off in her head and saying "oh I've done a dreadful thing".

I guess I wanted to know if I let my guard down so to speak..and she knows that some waterworks and I'm there to help even thought I was fired..


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I dont want to speak for Sandi.

But really think. Why did you allow this? No judgment from us. But what was your true motivation?

My guess - she was in trouble and needed help, and you wanted to be a hero. Im not saying its wrong, but if you really wanted to only help your kids, you could have offered to take their laundry while you were at her house.

Also, you know theres a difference between saying:
1) you can come over and use the washing machine
and
2) you can come over and use the washing machine. Here's my cc. I left the netflix and ipad up while you wait. Theres cookies and milk in the fridge. Make yourself at home.

Validation and solving someones problems are not the same thing. Validation and being someones shoulder to cry on are not the same thing. She did ask you to use the washing machine, so Im not sure if I would have said no in your shoes. But it certainly would have been valid to say you werent comfortable with it and suggest she go to a laundromat.


Ultimately, I think she was checking to see where you are, and based on this interaction, it LOOKS like you are still pretty much wrapped around her finger. You asked Sandi about what she would want if she were your W --- thats easy. Of COURSE she wants her husband to come rescue her. Who wouldnt want that person that is always chasing after you, trying to help, that you dont have to give anything back to? Instead of sitting in a laundromat for three hours, shes all set up at your house!

SPD - you cant "nice" your way back to your M. So really think about why you acted in this way.

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Sandi/Azzork

Thank you for the 2x4....
It will take time to get out of the habit
Of still trying to be a husband...
I realize that I'm still in that mindset..

I was also reminded by S, telling me how inappropriate it was for her to be lying on my bed doing her laundry as we are getting divorced. And she doesnt want me to get the wrong impression or that i shouldn't get my hopes as we won't be fixing our marriage as she doesn't want to.

And she's seeing someone. So OP confirmed, although I already had a inkling. I felt numb...like every breath left my body. Here she was calmly saying I'm seeing someone...yet when she needed help...she asked me?..
Why not go to new Beau and use his WM...?

After a bout of tears and 3 or 5 stellas..I felt anger and resolve..anger at myself for letting myself down and thinking I wold be a lighthouse and show my W...you can count on me...all for what..in the vain hope that she returns..
Nope..all I got was ..can you watch the kids Sunday night ..I'm going to a party..

Resolve...because I really need to be honest with myself and figure out my motives for saving this marriage..is it because it's all I've known for the last decade of my life..?..and the unknown is scary?.. do I genuinely love her ?..what is love?

Do I want to stay with her after the hurtful things she's said..but more importantly after she's spilt our secrets and decided to be with another man?
Alas here is where falter because am I being a hypocrite? ...I want her to forgive my faults and give me a second chance but am unwilling to forgive her faults?

Is my pride stopping me from doing the right thing..?..what is the right thing?
She wants to leave....life would be wonderful now there is a built in babysitting service....I feel used..dirty and cheap...however I brought it on myself..my ego couldn't let me say no...I'll show her how take charge I am...darn rambling now...in the dark morning hours..I stretch out my hand..she's not there..throughout all the arguments my one constant was she was there...
No longer..not for a long time..

Is it time to continue this journey on my own ??


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Quote:
I'm confused...should I not have helped her?


No, b/c laundry is not an emergency, and her she could have gone to her sister's. Perhaps you aren't able to see how you went overboard with it (Azzork explained it very well).

Quote:
Or should I not have questioned or defended why I helped her?


Why do you feel the need to defend your decisions? Look, she has fired you as her H. So that means you no longer do the things that you would have done when living together as a couple. She has filed for a D and has OM. No, you should not rescue her whenever things don't go well for her.

Quote:
If you were in her position..would you have wanted your H to help? told you to figure it out on your own?
If if he did help in the way that I did..what would you have thought?


Here's the issue. I was a WW, and your W is wayward. The mindset of a WW is shocking to the H. She is completely selfish, and she will use you for whatever she needs at that moment. The WW knows when she is wrapping the LBS around her little finger. She knows she can turn on the tears, and act "woe is me", and it's usually effective. Even if she expected her H to roll out the red carpet to the laundry room, her lack of respect for him demishes true appreciation for his help. In most cases, the WW has a sense of entitlement that outweighs any humbleness. The more he tries to help her while she's wayward, the more she disrespects him for allowing her to use him.

You don't have to be cold or hateful and tell her to figure it out for herself. However, she really needs to learn that you are not available for fixing her problems. She left you and the life you had together, so now, she needs to see how her life will be without you. Make sense? Again, I am not saying to be vindictive or punitive. I am saying that whenever you have a WW, you cannot use the more nice guy methods and think it's going to win her back.

I am not beating up on you, okay? I just wanted you to see how you were defending your actions. You have to learn, just like all newcomers. I think one of the more difficult things for them is finding balance as they learn.


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Originally Posted By: SPD72

And she's seeing someone. So OP confirmed, although I already had a inkling. I felt numb...like every breath left my body. Here she was calmly saying I'm seeing someone...yet when she needed help...she asked me?..
Why not go to new Beau and use his WM...?

Why would she take that drama to OM? You think he wants to be around her problems and both kids? OM just wants to be around for fun times - not real life.

Originally Posted By: SPD72
After a bout of tears and 3 or 5 stellas..I felt anger and resolve..anger at myself for letting myself down and thinking I wold be a lighthouse and show my W...you can count on me...all for what..in the vain hope that she returns..
Nope..all I got was ..can you watch the kids Sunday night ..I'm going to a party..

Theres a difference between being a lighthouse and showing her that she can count on you. Read the lighthouse story again. The lighthouse doesn't go out and rescue the ships, it sits, patiently shining. You can still shine without rolling over and letting her take advantage of you.

Originally Posted By: SPD72
Resolve...because I really need to be honest with myself and figure out my motives for saving this marriage..is it because it's all I've known for the last decade of my life..?..and the unknown is scary?.. do I genuinely love her ?..what is love?

Do I want to stay with her after the hurtful things she's said..but more importantly after she's spilt our secrets and decided to be with another man?
Alas here is where falter because am I being a hypocrite? ...I want her to forgive my faults and give me a second chance but am unwilling to forgive her faults?

Is my pride stopping me from doing the right thing..?..what is the right thing?
She wants to leave....life would be wonderful now there is a built in babysitting service....I feel used..dirty and cheap...however I brought it on myself..my ego couldn't let me say no...I'll show her how take charge I am...darn rambling now...in the dark morning hours..I stretch out my hand..she's not there..throughout all the arguments my one constant was she was there...
No longer..not for a long time..

Is it time to continue this journey on my own ??

These are really questions you don't need to worry about right now. You need to rebuild you before you need to worry about your M. She's not interested in R right now, so why worry about whether you want to?

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Thank you for the responses and advice...when I read them they make sense..the problem for me is in the moment...I have to work on my response timing and button.....I need to make better choices..sometimes I think I do well and sometimes those buttons get stuck in the on position...

So after Fridays blow up, where she thought it was inappropriate to be doing laundry at my house, she left after informing me that she was seeing someone but it wasn't serious(yeah sure). I took my kids to dinner and dropped them home.

Then I made a series of blunders. Everything seems normal on the surface, so its easy to let my guard down and i know i shouldnt. She texted me if she can come over before work to check the laundry, I said as I was on my way to get my car serviced. as I took it in early, I thought I would be out in an hour or so. turned out not to be the case.

FU1: I called W to ask if she could come get me ...I only got as far as can I ask you a favor..her: what? like I was putting her out..I said never mind and hung up. she texted me back and said I fly off the handle too quickly( maybe I do)..i said you came across rude...but never mind I'm good now..walked about a mile to nearest park and sat there for an hour reading and thinking..i am a big dummy...I would give my off my back to this woman...stopped the negative talk and enjoyed the scenery.

she texted me 2 hrs later..asking about an email for D10s party (it was later that day). long story short we had ok conversation about my car and how long it would take and cost..i got home at 135pm ..she texts me are you home..(she works 2 mins from my apt) can you bring D10 outfit over ...I take it over..she asks me to sit in her office and talk for while(someone came in she didn’t want to talk to)..we talk about her work..she comments youre counting down the mintes until you have to leave me huh (in hindsight, it was a test which I failed miserably) I responded I have never wanted to leave you (cue the groans from sandi2) she gave a smirk as in I still got you..i took it then as yeah a smile ,, a break through ..NOT!!

D10s birthday party....I arrived early to help set up(25 girls )...she was pleasant..i was happy happy joy joy..SIL and I were cordial (she gave me a hug)..then MIL and SFIL turn up..it was like a switch was thrown W moved away from me..and for the rest of party didn't interact with me except at the end to pay the bill(we agreed to split the party costs 50/50)
MIL and SFIL passed me in the hall an play area a few times...not a word, completely ignored..and to e fair I ignored them as well. At this point I am not in the mood for ridiculous games. best to say nothing to either.

At the end of the party, I helped W pack the car with the gifts and leftover food. she has tears in her eyes...I ask hey you ok...her: this is so strange (this is first time kids have a party and its not a family gathering after. its now SFIL MIL w kids and Ws best friend from college who is married with 4 young kids)I agreed it was strange..asked my kids their favorite thing of the day (our ritual) and said have a great night and walked to my car. Later that night she texted that D10 had a great time and we said goodnight first time in months


Me:43 W:38
M:10 T:11
D:10 S:8
BD: 1/1/15
Sep:4/1/15
D filed: 8/12/15
1st court date: 9/22/15
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Sunday:

She texts at 3am..i cant sleep(shes apparently not been sleeping well since she left in april..guilt?,..fear?...)..…I respond at 7am that’s not good..back and forth and then I said hopefully it will get better s00n me ..At 4pm she texts me im taking kids to the pool, do you want to come?...yes I do…Saturday left me on a high..idiot boy that I am.

I meet them at the pool, kids are on slide. I have a pleasant conversation ask about her day, we both worked..she asked about my day..she took pictures of kids first day at school and D10s actual birthday celebration dinner and gifts t home..said she me dupes ..i thank her and said I going to see the kids. I was choked up that here was my family enjoying a birthday all smiles everyone beaming and I wasn’t there..but oh you get to see the pictures..hip hip hoo%$^^&& ray..

Not to make excuses, but that’s when looking back I can see the death spiral begin..emotions are a weird thing. Im with the kids poolside and she wanders over..sits next to me..starts talking about taking the kids to a fair..i said oh I was going to take them…she says well its almost over and I might take them tonight or tomorrow…OK HERE COMES FU2:

I say..really? I thought you had plans tonight…(she had asked me to watch kids overnight as she had a party to go to…I sorry cant help you). She laments MIL and SFIL are giving her a hard time about watching the kids. Then I said oh that [censored] (whilst thinking how often are you out that they are giving you a hard time)…she continues yeah I have plans tomorrow too, im going to dinner.. so can I drop them off early….(here it is folks..).i ask who are you going to dinner with (oh no he didn’t?...yup folks the mist is descending)…like good cop bad cop..her demeanor, voice and face changes..whats it to you anyway..who I have plans with..

I recognize the battlefield,..so I got up from bench ..said youre right never mind..and jumped in the pool with D10. Cooling my head, I ran over the rules of engagement. Repeated mantra after mantra..threw in a couple woosawsss..and namastes for good measure.

Was in the water for 15 -20 mins…W starts walking back to our stuff..D10 comes up to me and says mommy says we are leaving but she doesn’t know what hes(me) doing. I said to the kids mommy wants to leave et your things together. On the way over we pass each other and I stop her and say again..i didn’t mean to upset im sorry I asked you anything in a pleasant manner trying to defuse situation. She says well can I drop them off early, nothing else..so I said no you cant its labor day and I have things planned I wont be home until later. She gets mad storms off to parking lot with S8..D10 walks back with me.

I get to her car, getting D10 in..she comes around..and says harshly I need to get my laundry. Yes yes she left piles of laundry at my apt..the clean stuff dried and folded…(yes I did it,..yes im an idiot). Load in washer to be dried ..load in dryer drying. She gets there…fuming…you said you would et them..its your day..i have plans..i don’t see why I have to sit around waiting for you…I said nothing let her vent…she doesn’t thank me for anything…and here is where I put my foot down…she takes the clean laundry down to her car..comes back and says huffily..anything else..and you cant do as you please ..you want the kids 50/50 well see about that..

I snapped…and said you can take the rest of your laundry too as I agree its inappropriate for you to be doing youre laundry here seeing as you want nothing to do with me..Sheesh..Medusa had nothing on this chick…she went ballistic..how much she hates me..cant wait to get away from me..she should hae left me 8 years ago..she regrets staying ..yadda yadda..her life wll be so much happier when the divorce is final and im out of her life..so I toked the fire (I know…whats my end goal)..i said that’s fine but in the meantime I wont be your babysitter so you can go get la**.

She left with dirty laundry..half dried laundry..wet laundry..yelling im a sorry excuse for a man..thank god dhe left me when she did and gor herself a real man…sigh I know..half of what she says etc etc..


Me:43 W:38
M:10 T:11
D:10 S:8
BD: 1/1/15
Sep:4/1/15
D filed: 8/12/15
1st court date: 9/22/15
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 53
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Coup de Grace:

Semi rant semi vent…so I know I screwed the pooch as we embarked an a 30min text tirade…with the about 3 calls from her which I declined,..whereby she duly texted how im a coward..she never cared me I would never ever be a priority to her (one of my gripes in our marriage)..i responded that its funny her mom has a laundry room but yet the man she depises and cant wait to get away from is the man she turns to for help…

Anyway safe to say ..20mins after blood levels were reduced I felt like crap..first taste of Dbing seemingly working and I lost mental focus. This harder than I could ever have imagined. Like storming a fortified German bunker with a water pistol. I need to work on my mental fortitude, not get sidetracked or sucked in by a pretty face and a smile.

Im weary, bruised and bloodied, but I will keep fighting.
On a separate track, reading many other threads on here..i have to ask..what is the purpose of DBing?..I understand life has no guarantees however im torn by what I see as mixed messages on here. Am I here to work on getting my spouse back or working on myself and if my spouse notices then great ..if not………………………….crickets..

I understand the nature of human psychology and you can change someones mind..or make someone love you…if the case is that im truly here to work on the it shouldn’t be called divorce busting as reconciliation seems to be a byproduct of the true purpose which is to find value happy and validation in self…

Maybe im getting jaded..maybe had too much vino..yesterdays fight has left me drained..despondent and utterly dejected. I don’t know how to keep the demons of doubt and self delusion from my door…I want my W back..i want my family back I want all the hopes and dreams that have been built up to come to fruition with this person, the mother of my children.

The sad thing is, realization is setting that no matter what I do, she is done! As much as I want to only believe 50% etc etc.. I know in my heart I wast always a good husband…I did things that hurt her(chatting online..sexting with exes). I never hit her or mentally abused her. I gave her the silent treatment many times, mainly because my grievances were dismissed ridiculed and disparaged.

I am not proud of my past behaviors, I am changing, I still react to the pushed buttons and I know I shouldn’t..rereading DR today. Labor day they are out with MIL and STFIL. I miss my family!!


Me:43 W:38
M:10 T:11
D:10 S:8
BD: 1/1/15
Sep:4/1/15
D filed: 8/12/15
1st court date: 9/22/15
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,952
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Originally Posted By: SPD72

On a separate track, reading many other threads on here..i have to ask..what is the purpose of DBing?..I understand life has no guarantees however im torn by what I see as mixed messages on here. Am I here to work on getting my spouse back or working on myself and if my spouse notices then great ..if not………………………….crickets..

The way I see it, no matter what happened, your wife is not going to come back to be in the exact same marriage that she was in before that led you to this place. She already knows she doesn't like that. So what can you do? First, identify the gaps in your life where you can make improvements. Then you make them. Unfortunately, you could get voted as supreme awesomest guy on Earth and it may not matter to her anymore. You have absolutely zero control over her.on the positive side, by going through those two steps, you come out of the tunnel and improved person.

Originally Posted By: SPD72
I understand the nature of human psychology and you can change someones mind..or make someone love you…if the case is that im truly here to work on the it shouldn’t be called divorce busting as reconciliation seems to be a byproduct of the true purpose which is to find value happy and validation in self…

I think this is tough to answer. Had I read this book and implemented the process two years ago, I probably wouldn't be here typing to you now. By the time most of us actually get here, the marriage is for all intents and purposes already over. I believe that the fact that ANY marriages are saved due to the practices of this site is incredible.

Originally Posted By: SPD72
The sad thing is, realization is setting that no matter what I do, she is done! As much as I want to only believe 50% etc etc.. I know in my heart I wast always a good husband…I did things that hurt her(chatting online..sexting with exes). I never hit her or mentally abused her. I gave her the silent treatment many times, mainly because my grievances were dismissed ridiculed and disparaged.

I am not proud of my past behaviors, I am changing, I still react to the pushed buttons and I know I shouldn’t..rereading DR today. Labor day they are out with MIL and STFIL. I miss my family!!

None of us were perfect. That's why we're here. And I'm certainly not going to judge on whether you were a good husband or not. My opinion doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is HER perception. Because that perception, to her, is reality. Who are you to judge how much she hurts because of some inappropriate text message she may have seen? Her feelings about that are valid and are hers - by minimizing them, you minimize her.

So I would instead focus on what you can LEARN from the past. Thing of the wrongs you committed. What was at the root of those actions? How can you do better next time?

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I am learning -slowly- what pushes my buttons...life is circular..and IM trying to break that circle by doing a 180..

Sometimes I succeed sometimes I don't ..but I always know when I have failed...right now I am probably 20-80..success to failure.. my goal is 80-20..

My labor day ended up being pleasant..went to see a movie -war room- alone..ran into B&N and bought 5LL for men....had lunch on the patio in the sunshine. ..took my kids to dinner and ice cream..

When I tool kids home, W sent out birthday cake with S8...I sent her a text thanking her...she texts back " thank yo u for telling the kids I had a date " "awesome" "youre such an ass" "just when I think okay it will be okay you go some thing else"
Me: I didn't say that..
Her: well that's what they came home and told me..
They must have made it up
Me: ok

I left it at that...I laughed and thought ..don't argue don't argue..this battle isn't worth fighting..I already said nope not me...
The story was...W had plans for dinner (according to kids at a friends house) oh cool i said ..then my S8..mommy wanted to look pretty for dinner..maybe it's a date..I say where did you learn that ...they both shout jesse (Disney show )..
I laughed and said don't be silly ...
They went on when are you going on a date ..?..I'm like I dunno why do you ask..and long story short they each talk over each other about kids at school with divorced parents and what they say etx etc

But it was too much to text W..and didn't think I should elaborate...need to start writing down my goals and read 5LL..


Me:43 W:38
M:10 T:11
D:10 S:8
BD: 1/1/15
Sep:4/1/15
D filed: 8/12/15
1st court date: 9/22/15
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Posts: 1,952
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Just a couple of thoughts in blue below. In addition to "not arguing", the next step is to start validating. She expressed some concern to you, and you took the opposite opinion immediately and probably made her feel like you dont share this concern.


Originally Posted By: SPD72

When I tool kids home, W sent out birthday cake with S8...I sent her a text thanking her...she texts back " thank yo u for telling the kids I had a date " "awesome" "youre such an ass" "just when I think okay it will be okay you go some thing else"
Me: I didn't say that.. Instead of getting defensive right away, could there be a better reply? Im wondering if instead of taking a completely opposite side from her, is thre something less confrontational? Maybe something like "Im not sure where they got that idea." Im not great at these kinds of conversations, but I think immediately setting yourself on opposite sides may not be to your advantage.
Her: well that's what they came home and told me..
They must have made it up
Me: ok why respond this way here? its hard to read what you mean, but it sounds like you are putting her concerns down as if they arent important. Im not sure a response is needed, but I think replying like this will make her feel like you think she is stupid for feeling this way.

I left it at that...I laughed and thought ..don't argue don't argue..this battle isn't worth fighting..I already said nope not me...
The story was YOUR version of the story. Told to you second hand by your kids. Remember that every story has two sides. ...W had plans for dinner (according to kids at a friends house) oh cool i said ..then my S8..mommy wanted to look pretty for dinner..maybe it's a date..I say where did you learn that ...they both shout jesse (Disney show )..
I laughed and said don't be silly ...
They went on when are you going on a date ..?..I'm like I dunno why do you ask..and long story short they each talk over each other about kids at school with divorced parents and what they say etx etc

But it was too much to text W..and didn't think I should elaborate...need to start writing down my goals and read 5LL..

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Azzork

Thanks for all the advice so far..it's been a real help..read up on your sitch..I'm praying for you.. (yeah I know..funny how the man upstairs gets that call when we're down)..

In the situation above would it be conducive to text her today and say something like.." on reflection my response to you last night might appear dismissive. .however that was not my intent...I don't know where the kids got that idea..I can only imagine how that would have made you feel"
Or is it best to just let it go?

And I know I can't speak for her but isn't the kids telling her something also her version of the "story"?


Me:43 W:38
M:10 T:11
D:10 S:8
BD: 1/1/15
Sep:4/1/15
D filed: 8/12/15
1st court date: 9/22/15
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,952
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Thank you for your thoughts, I certainly appreciate it.

Originally Posted By: SPD72

In the situation above would it be conducive to text her today and say something like.." on reflection my response to you last night might appear dismissive. .however that was not my intent...I don't know where the kids got that idea..I can only imagine how that would have made you feel"
Or is it best to just let it go?
I think neither. I think learn from this and apply it next time. Nothing you say now can change what happened before or how she feels about what happened before. But, you can change yourself for your next encounter.

And I know I can't speak for her but isn't the kids telling her something also her version of the "story"?
Yes. Thats what Im saying. You have one side and she has one side. And they are BOTH correct, because to each person, what they perceive is what they believe.

Lets say Im colorblind. If you tell me a chair is blue and I tell you it's red, how is my version of this wrong to ME? To me, it looks red. No amount of convincing from you is going to change my mind that it's red.


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