Hopeless in NYC

[Fogg]

Wow eclipse, that is strange behavior. I cant really get a reading on what shes doing either but just let it play out and see where it goes. Its really hard to say right but time will tell. Good luck.

[eclipse]

W is coming along to D's gymnastics class for the first time today. I invited her to play mini-golf nearby since she previously said she's into that--seems like a nice family activity. I'm feeling a lot of anxiety because I'm not sure what to talk about since she hasn't been doing much this past year except searching for my replacement. I don't want the conversation to be one-sided either. Maybe I can ask her thoughts about finding an MC...

[mahhhty]

I don't think you need to talk. Let her lead, it seems as if she is already. While she is leading validate and try to have fun. Just focus on having fun.

[eclipse]

Well, I think we had fun. I know I did. D flipped out because she wasn't getting it, W seemed unusually good at it and she said it's because she went on so many mini-golf dates. Speaking of which, she seemed to perk up particularly when she talked about her last date (she said she broke it off abruptly)...it was annoying, but I let her speak without judgement. Anyway, I noticed she gets bored and distant a lot, and I find this particularly worrisome. More than one outside observer has repeatedly told me that it seems that my depression is actually a consequence of being around her, and I'm starting to feel that this really may be the case. Coupled with a recent revelation that she projects a lot, I am afraid to end up in the same situation down the road. It's not that I don't want to put in the effort, but even though I can turn my own situation around and become a happier person, I don't think I can hold up both of us. She's quit her IC several times in the last few years, and MC once, so I'm not really sure where it will go this time. She continues to keep saying "if we get back together," and I don't know what she's looking for to make that happen at this point. Hell, I'm starting to wonder if she knows herself.

[Vanilla]

Eclipse,

Remember the100% rule? I am confused and I am reading what you are posting.

There doesn't seem to be any remorse for her actions, that bothers me a great deal. If this were my own sitch I would refer to this as 'hoovering'.

I have red warning flags but I haven't ever been in piecing.

V

[eclipse]

Remember the100% rule?

At this point, no, I do not. Remind me please?

There doesn't seem to be any remorse for her actions, that bothers me a great deal.

No, there is no remorse. In fact, the first time I called her after that outing where she admitted sleeping around and I asked to speak with her in person, she immediately became defensive about it and said she won't apologize, she's not sorry for any of it because she was planning on leaving and needed to resort to such measures to get over me and save herself (I didn't even get to tell her why I wanted to see her).

She blames me completely. Apparently my depression is my fault because I "chose" to be in that frame of mind by not listening to her for years and intentionally avoiding getting help. The unplanned pregnancy and entire cascade of events (money problems, isolation, frustration) which resulted in me sinking to such a low state is my fault because I didn't use a condom and she warned me that if she ever got pregnant, she's keeping the child (she repeated this so many times over the years that I'm questioning my own memory of whether this is so). Also, when I pointed out that D is suffering because of what she is doing, the first thing I was told post-denial was that I should just take D with me to IC.

I would also like to add that she mentioned she's somewhat afraid to come back because she thinks I'll lash out at her at some point in the future for her infidelity. But again, no remorse that it happened...it was all justified. There was a time when I thought maybe she doesn't understand that her actions cause others to feel pain. But she clearly does, and she's only concerned how it will affect her (interesting example is how her story has changed from being afraid that I would commit suicide to being afraid that I would hit her). Anyone who indicates that they are hurting because of anything related to her decisions needs to be "fixed" by going to therapy.

I present the list of reasons she gave for considering coming back:

• our D, because she's drawing pictures of mommy and daddy holding hands
• I've been diligent about IC, so she doesn't want that to go to waste
• even the older guys she's gone out with don't seem interested/ready to lead family life
• we've been together for so long and it's hard to just throw that away

But "it's not because she loves me or anything like that."

If this were my own sitch I would refer to this as 'hoovering'.

What is hoovering?

I have red warning flags but I haven't ever been in piecing.

Care to share what those red flags might be? Also, is this really the "piecing" stage?

[Vanilla]

100% is on Sandis list of 37 guidelines,it's no 32. It's been reduced to disbelieve 100% of what they say and 50% of what they do.

Hold this list dear to your chest, I had this laminated!

Sandi 37 guidelines

My lovely she is rationalising as well as justifying her actions and blaming you. Usually what she says is also a projection, "lashing out" and is likely to be the reverse, in other words it's what she thinks she is likely to do.

Hoovering is the action an abuser like my WH does in order to persuade me back into R for his benefit, not mine. To take me through another cycle of abuse.

I don't think WW is inviting you to piece, she has no remorse. She is coming on strong with you though. This concerns me as it sounds like she is setting the scene for blame.

So red flags for me :

No remorse by WW
Negative comments about you, lashing out
Blaming you for pregnancy
blaming you for everything
Blaming you......

There was another poster her called Mustardseed who was in a similar sitch with her WH. I don't know why but this has the same 'feel'. I can't quite put my finger on it.

I will find the links for you Z and I put a thread together on abuse as a starter and it has some definitions etc on page 8 and 9.

abuse starter kit

V

[Vanilla]

Mustard seeds denouement read from here:

concerns about mustardseed

V

[eclipse]

Thanks, V...I will be reading those over carefully.

On a whim, I had dinner with Ace after skate practice tonight. We talked about things and it's starting to look like the PA is/was actually recent (around last month) rather than way back when she left. Weird?? Why did she run back to me so abruptly? Don't affairs usually go on for months, if not years?

[Vanilla]

Affairs come in all shapes and sizes, and this may not be the first, sadly this may be the case with a wayward, I found my WH felt entitled enough to be on dating sites throughout our R, even as we were getting married..

I am struggling with your WW behaviour, it makes no sense to me, but then the WW mind is almost unfathomable. So 100% of what they say and 50% of what they do.

No doubt it will unfold.

Concentrate on you, there is nothing you can do about WW thoughts or actions other than observe. You are the one here, you are the one I am concerned about.

You are the one DB and you are the one ho is going to be the most stable for your D. Just a gentle warning keep any personal details like names etc, very private. If you slip as I have the mods will amend for you by using the report button add making a request.

Keep posting I will check in with you today.

(((((((((Hugs))))))))
V