Well as I mentioned I have been slowly moving in with W into the "Love Nest" and have been making changes ... W has been very happy and accepting of these changes but as I discovered they were mostly for me and not so much for her.
AS I stated last thread .. Indifference... thats has been my feeling the past week or so. W started her new job, she is very excited about it ... it pays a ridiculous amount and she just learned rather than a 6 month contract, sounds like its a 12 month contract. She loves the environment, says her boss is already 'wonderful' ... so far nothing but thumbs up which is good. I cooked her a nice dinner, her fav ... she asked why and I told her to congratulate her and to celebrate her 1st day (180 from Cali 1.0) .... Some of the things our 'hmwk' has brought up I have enforced a bit .. dinner for instance, we all 3 sit at the table at the same time, eat together without any phones/ipads/TV's .... I found myself really happy as we all 3 were talking about our day... S was engaged and happy as was W even though they both gave me a 'look' when I shut all the devices off and told them to do the same. I did later get a wink from W and a mouthed 'thank you' as we were talking. Then I cleaned up, took a shower and decided to read a bit.
W shared she is all set to go on the vacation, so looks like we have a family trip all set in 2 1/2 weeks, something I am looking forward to.
Last night we watched part of our new show that we picked ... then went to bed. W was a bit more affectionate however I was sapped, plus the fact I tire of the push pull game ... I turned in and fell asleep. This morning I woke and walked the dog at his wet nose in the face request at zero dark thirty ... came back in and started getting ready for work. W asked why I did not wake her to join me, was more out of letting her sleep as I told her. She then mentioned she felt distance between us .... and that I did not read her 'signals' last night. I simply told her I did not realize she was wanting to be close (refrained from saying she is typically that way knowing it sounds judgemental) and I told her she simply needs to just tell me, I would not reject her.
Some things I have noticed over the last month ... alot more ILY's, but what has struck me as odd is the pet names, babes, honeys ... all that very frequently which were things I would say out of habit early on in this crisis that would flip her straight to monster mode with some serious spew. This morning she gave me the ILY and I replied back with the ILY2 and she wanted me to confirm that I truly did .... she seems at points very insecure about this as the vets here have foreshadowed.
So ... I try to remain calm and patient through this ... its tough not to want to talk about issues and get them out in the open, shed light on that herd of elephants ... but I trust the board and the vets here, I will continue to focus on me and allow W to figure her sctuff out on her own.
You are doing great Cali, a true inspiration to many of us here
I have a question. In talking about your prior M and SSM, a few times you have mentioned that you were "lead to believe sex was not an option" because of health issues with W. Did she flat out say no to sex, did she tell you that because of her health she could not? Or is it what you assumed? You know, that old mind reading thing?
Hoping to put a different view on that to help because I know it really bothers you. Just wondering because I was bad at giving my H my signals and he has told me I never wanted sex, which was not true.
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Luke, I so enjoy reading your posts. You do have a wonderful way with words.
She is very tentative..thats normal. She knows what you have to overcome and she knows that she almost lost you. That coupled with her trying to figure out who she is and what she wants..makes for a lot of insecure feelings on her part. Reassure her as best you can, but, the rest she has to do.
I love that rule about dinner. We had the same rule. It is so important to have that connection together as a family.
You are doing great Cali, a true inspiration to many of us here
I have a question. In talking about your prior M and SSM, a few times you have mentioned that you were "lead to believe sex was not an option" because of health issues with W. Did she flat out say no to sex, did she tell you that because of her health she could not? Or is it what you assumed? You know, that old mind reading thing?
Hoping to put a different view on that to help because I know it really bothers you. Just wondering because I was bad at giving my H my signals and he has told me I never wanted sex, which was not true.
M.. I feel like calling you sis for some strange reason...lol. I will fill you in with the bigger picture.... heck I have already streaked nekkid through this Quad no sense about being shy skinny dipping now.
So the SSM thing. Younger was not an issue, but we dated for about 10 years prior to being married and sex tapered off along with the newness as like with anything, I still think it was normal though I always had the higher drive, and it was a concern when we married (W told me that Catholic guilt was in play and she felt once we were married it would be gone ... never really happened ... I learned this is called Disillusionment ... see I take notes)
We got Pregnant in 05, miscarried and as soon as we had the green light preggo again in 06 and S was born in 07. After all this things were just not 'right'. The sex we did have was uncomfortable for her. I was not sure if it was the miscarriage, or S's emergency C-section and it was all psychological ... or if it was in fact physical. She went through several doctors and was one diagnosis for this .. and another for that. Went through this for 3-4 years ... sex was there but was not good, and knowing it caused her pain things started gradually going south.
2011 she went holistic, this seemed to start helping, very strict diet and this Dr seemed to have a bead on what was going on ... MLC at this point was about a year in from what I can tell ... and the withdraws from medications kicked things into gear. Sex was now painful for her, so I stopped even trying to bring it up ... and I became very frustrated rather than supportive. Looking back I would like to have a mulligan here.
As it sits now ... she has shared (yeah .. another tough one to hear) that things have to be just right as her body reacts very badly .. say if I have any yeast ... beer.. mushrooms in my system her body responds ... almost like its a Ph Balance thing. .. OM ate clean (Being a physical Trainer) so this was not as much of an issue I guess but even then she would have flare ups .... and now add in the STD and all that brings .... hence some of my anxiety on facing all this.
She does really seem to want to find a solution, but looking at it all I am not sure if there is really a one size fits answer. As Wonka pointed out... and its making more sense.. I think she is throwing these roadblocks up (not taking away from them .. but I am curious if its not just a detour for the moment) because she is just not ready ... sex with OM was one thing ... with me its another. Learning OM was with at the least 3 women during the A tells me W was not all over the sex-map with him either ... not that it helps .. but for some reason it does take a bit of the sting out of it.
Luke, I so enjoy reading your posts. You do have a wonderful way with words.
She is very tentative..thats normal. She knows what you have to overcome and she knows that she almost lost you. That coupled with her trying to figure out who she is and what she wants..makes for a lot of insecure feelings on her part. Reassure her as best you can, but, the rest she has to do.
I love that rule about dinner. We had the same rule. It is so important to have that connection together as a family.
Keep going, my friend.
uR
Yeah ... she does seem to be tentative .. thats a perfect way to describe it .. almost like Goldilocks. And judging from some of the exchanges we have had over the past couple months, the fear she still could lose me does come into play often. We had it out a few weeks ago ... and during one of our hmwk sessions a week or so later she made a reference to her fear about me 'throwing in the towel' ... this reference has been brought up a handful of times over the past 2-3 weeks.
That dinner rule ... yeah I statred that one with S when it was just he and I. W and I touched on that subject in one of the Post Sessions and agreed ... but like many things, she does not follow through so its up to me to lead in that case which I do not mind at all ... and yes ... its a very good new tradition for the new M to have as far as I am concerned. W and I talked about the introduction of smart phones was critical in issues for our M ... now I know better .. but I do admit they surely did not help. Reading here .... how many A's .. EA and PA are nurtured by the ease of communication we have, hard not to think about how many lives have been turned upside down due to this.
Hi Cali. Being an only child I have always wanted a big brother, so you're it! Oh wait, I'm older! Well, you do seem a bit wiser than me.....
Ok, so, I was hoping to switch the perception but I agree that you have some valid concerns. I will say, based on what you described, I have a strong suspicion that it was not so glamorous or even as often with OM as you may think. I have read from the vets that our imagination is much more colorful than the truth in these scenarios. Hopefully the sting will lesson for you with time.
As a woman, I will guess that she has extreme guilt along with the mixed in STD and is probably terrified and anxious to have sex again, especially with you because she loves you so much. Just my guess.
Give it time, keep working through it, the answers will come. You are doing an amazing job of working through issues.
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
M ... yeah I get where you were going, but I do not think it was a difference in perception or something I misread. And as far as the other night ... honestly I seen the signs, but sometimes feels she does things just to ensure I stay put ... its been taxing as of late. As far as the imagination on what happened .... yeah I realize there is a point there, but just the fact I was lead down one road and OM another stings and I am struggling with and continue to process that like a bull in a China shop.
As far as her guilt ... that would all be mind reading on my part .. she has a pretty good poker face and as our blow up last night I did voice my frustration on the fact she carries on like it never happened and just wants to get on with it ... as we sit in a living room which has an elephant size mound that has been swept under the rug (Update to follow)
W started her new job Monday, along with this more anxiety for me. Little things but they seemed to all add up and point right back to abandonment issues. Rings still off, W has gone from Family and M #1 to talking nothing about the good ol Corprate game, who makes what, what she makes, her boss and his wife building a dream house on the cliffs, who drives what ... always an eye on the Joneses. She had TM me just prior to getting to work, and I did not hear from her all day after that .. not till around 5 as I was walking the dog (missed the TM) saying she would be home in 10-15 (thats her commute time) and she did not get in till 5:45. Honestly I was good till about 1-2 thinking .. huh... no lunch TM ... nothing. Gradually it felt just like high crisis mode when I was cast aside for OM and did not matter. My mind began to race without me a bit ... thoughts of OM contact creeped in, followed by nervousness that maybe somehow I missed something, is A over ... all the on and offs I went through this behavior was in sync with the on again treatment I received. I fough through that stuff then hit a point worried about a car accident or the like. She finally came in as I was getting dinner for S ready, I was not in a very chipper mood and she picked it up right away. Asked what was wrong ... rather than play the 'oh nothing' game I told her how I felt. Received the "Oh Brother treatment" and I leveled up. The constant disregard has been really bugging me so I very bluntly asked where the M and I fit in with her priorities, new job and all, its something I need to know because I am not really excited about a rinse and repeat of the past when she is all about work and S and I are just there for her as a support cast. Even ramped up to the Transparency and I asked for her phone ... which she happened to leave at work (I was skeptical of this ... but she definitely does not have it) She calmed down a bit .. assured me she was committed to the M and to me, apologized and we agreed to drop it.
Finished dinner, ate as a family. I walked the dog, came back and continued reading S's book all 3 of us on the bed. Put S down and W suggested we do our hmwk. Soon after she brought up the blow up. I realized it added pressure and sure enough mini-monster came to play. She called me out on it ... blasted a few things about me never trusting her, she feels like she can not breathe ... I pointed out it was never this way before, I would have never been upset but the point remains I do not feel I matter, she says the right things but actions do not match up. She started pressing buttons .. ones I pulled out long ago .. then she finally found one. My speaking to the parish about my story .. I stopped her there and asked specifically where I had not told a truth, pointed out I withheld a good deal of sharing everything I went through ... this really upset me. So I decided couch for the night. W followed me as I was grabbing the pillows and said something to the effect that I am giving up on the M, I calmly told her I was not, she continued to follow .. more spew ... got to the point I was done, grabbed some clothes and left her place and went to my apt.
I was expecting the phone to blow up ... never did ... then I realized she actually did leave it at work
So ... today should be interesting to see if its Monster Mode .. or she calms down and tries to nice it up.
I know I pressed, I tried not to let it get to me, but I also do not want an M where the job comes first ... I believe its important but work is work .. and as I told her .. her job is not going to be there when she is sick, its not going to care about her as a person ... I reminded her that I thought she learned that long ago. I enjoy my job .. but its just a check just as I am just a cog in the machine. The second part is all on me .. its about not feeling my needs are met in this R. Can I be patient enough to allow her to get through her journey without adding pressure ... I smh at myself because I am failing in this area ... I know what I need to do I just stink at it allowing the hurts and pain of the past 2-3 years cloud my emotions.
I smh at myself because I am failing in this area ... I know what I need to do I just stink at it allowing the hurts and pain of the past 2-3 years cloud my emotions.
Regroup and focus ... Rinse Repeat.
I feel your pain, good sir.
Maybe it is a good time to take the bike out for a bit? Clear your head.
I hope that this is just that your W is excited about the new job. Give it a little time, let things settle there. She was most likely all about the new job yesterday.
I wish I could offer more for you. You're a strong person and I am confident you'll handle this well, just like you have handled everything else in your situation well.
M: 38 W: 37 T: 20 M: 19 Kids: Stepson?20, S19, S16, D12 BD: 02/19/2015 (She moved out) PA Confirmed: 02/22/2015 (She is now living with OM) Dazed and confused: 09/13/2015
Hi Cali, I'm sorry you had a backslide. I think the work, life, family balance is an important area - and maybe one to pick up in your homework and 'bigger' talks about how you both want things to be going forward.
I'm conscious that your W is just a few days into the job and just finding her feet. I can see that she would want to make a good impression there, and may feel excited about a new opportunity. Without checking way back - was there something to do with OM all tied up with the old job?? I just wondered if that had touched a nerve because of this - or is it more just (and I don't mean to minimise) putting you and S first?
Your fears are understandable, and are yours to own and work on I think. It sounded as though your mind went at about a million miles an hour - and when this happens it is good to recognise and accept the probable irrationality of your thoughts. You'll recall I'm particularly strong in this area!!
I think it all adds up to the fact that you are both sensitised about this change in working arrangements.....and possibly about the speed things are moving? A few people have mentioned this Cali - and I wonder whether it is worth taking a couple of steps back & spending some time at your 'other place?' It may help you regain your Calimojo, and perhaps your W will feel more able to 'breathe.' It neededn't change the path you are both on, but you can sit back and smell the roses more together without having to face all these things so soon?
I worry for you that the pressure may build so much that you will be 'done' - or your W will be - when you guys have made loads of progress...
Anyway, just my 0.2c and I hope it helps a little. xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Hi Cali, I'm sorry you had a backslide. I think the work, life, family balance is an important area - and maybe one to pick up in your homework and 'bigger' talks about how you both want things to be going forward.
I'm conscious that your W is just a few days into the job and just finding her feet. I can see that she would want to make a good impression there, and may feel excited about a new opportunity. Without checking way back - was there something to do with OM all tied up with the old job?? I just wondered if that had touched a nerve because of this - or is it more just (and I don't mean to minimise) putting you and S first?
As we talked..I did recognize its is a new job and I know she wanted to make a good first impression. Totally understand that and I was honestly surprised at my reaction .. I was NEVER like that before. And as we talked ... just as you mentioned ... yeah the OM thing did come up. Its nothing to do with him, not in the present tense ... its more about where I feel I am in all this... again fighting that feeling of being the back up and not choice #1.
Originally Posted By: Sotto
Your fears are understandable, and are yours to own and work on I think. It sounded as though your mind went at about a million miles an hour - and when this happens it is good to recognise and accept the probable irrationality of your thoughts. You'll recall I'm particularly strong in this area!!
I think it all adds up to the fact that you are both sensitised about this change in working arrangements.....and possibly about the speed things are moving? A few people have mentioned this Cali - and I wonder whether it is worth taking a couple of steps back & spending some time at your 'other place?' It may help you regain your Calimojo, and perhaps your W will feel more able to 'breathe.' It neededn't change the path you are both on, but you can sit back and smell the roses more together without having to face all these things so soon?
I worry for you that the pressure may build so much that you will be 'done' - or your W will be - when you guys have made loads of progress...
Anyway, just my 0.2c and I hope it helps a little. xx
I just think its more about getting used to the new 'normal' whatever the H#LL that looks like now. Things are just all over the place. 2 more weeks of S in camp which is throwing both her and my commutes off ... then we have our 1st family vacation trip in 5 years coming up. After that .. S goes back to school, things should settle down by then. I have to give notice in 2 weeks on my place .. and yeah .. maybe it appears to be going fast ... but looking at it .. she 'committed' to the M in March, took about 3 months and we slowly started spending nights ... that went another 2 months before we discussed moving back in with each other. Maybe fast but does not feel like it to me.
She did TM telling me she hoped I had a good day ... I returned with the same ... then she went on to tell me to watch out for police, she and 5 others got stopped ... speed trap.. her first ticket ever.
So things will be touch and go... there are going to be bumps and this is one of them. I need to figure out some strategy for when I get all spun up and as late suggested ... just tell W I need to go for a ride and clear my head ... I think that's probably a very good solution for all this because the Bike really does help there.
So completely unrelated -- When I read through your sitch, I wanted to chime in one thing a few times. With football season quickly approaching, here it is ...
Go Broncos! :p
M: 38 W: 37 T: 20 M: 19 Kids: Stepson?20, S19, S16, D12 BD: 02/19/2015 (She moved out) PA Confirmed: 02/22/2015 (She is now living with OM) Dazed and confused: 09/13/2015
So completely unrelated -- When I read through your sitch, I wanted to chime in one thing a few times. With football season quickly approaching, here it is ...
Go Broncos! :p
The Denver Donkeys were my fathers fav team .... I think your run is over...lol
When I first read about your "backslide" update, my first reaction was:
Cali, Cali....NOT even 2 days at the new job, you hafta jump on W with your antsy monkeys. Jeez.
Then I read what Toots (now Sotto) wrote....yeah, she spoke for all of us here. WTH were you thinking? You did not allow W time to get acclimated to her new job and get her schedule set. Nope...you just had to act on your insecurities and scream from the "hurt little boy" voice that she WAS not putting you and S as the #1 priority.
I do not think it was fair to ambush W like that when she got home from the job she's only been at 2 days....TWO DAYS. Not even "how was your day" greeting as a supportive husband. I'd be really irritated and annoyed if it were me walking through the front door at a new job, a new environment, a new set of colleagues, new boss, etc.
I remember when I started my new job...my head spun for 2 weeks because I was crammed with tons of information and learning the A,B,Cs of who's who in the company so I don't step on hidden landmines at the company.
Seriously, you're going have to order some patience shovels from Job's factory. Preferably plated in rust-free chrome.
Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
its more about where I feel I am in all this... again fighting that feeling of being the back up and not choice #1.
It is your chit to own and process. Your W has her chit and process. From where I sit, it wasn't about the OM, the marriage, or W...it was all about past memories of the "hurt little boy" and like the Inside/Out movie...he threw one whopper of a tantrum at W.
All for what? So you can soothe that insecure 'hurt little boy'. Got everyone all upset. Imagine if you had said, "W, you just got in the right time...dinner is ready. Would love to hear about your day."
It's time for you to write PATIENCE 100 times on the chalkboard, buddy.
You've already been clubbed. I'll barely add to that.
Couple of things though as you move through this. Remember when I mentioned how you could become a despot? Drunk with power? Remember her saying that she can't breathe? Seems she may be telling you that she is impatient with the process too
There's more to the dynamic than you. Be careful of hurt little boy, mi amigo.
That said, fighting is not the problem now is it? Learning how to fight is. Transitioning from hunker down and let the barrage pass mode to being present and participatory is...awkward, no?
Don't think of the fight as a backslide is all I'm saying. Rather, it was an opportunity for you BOTH to blow off some steam. As long as you figure out to move past it in a healthy way.
If you're really indifferent about things, stop calling the place a name with quotes. That'll be the easier way for us to tell
Next time, try Wonka's advice about how to greet her on her first days at work - it's a much better way to share the positives and stop living with the past like an elephant sized necklace. Elephants make bad jewelry when worn whole.
Somebody once mentioned that if the relationship was solid, the elephants begin to look like roaches. Or something like that. Quotes don't come easily to me, 'amigo'.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Hey Cali - Been marveling at your patience, and with the transformation of your sitch lately. Kudos to both you and W for sticking with it. Pretty dang amazing, both of you. I'm with Wonka, however, on your latest development...your very first greeting after the work day can set the tone for the entire rest of the evening. You're both getting used to the new schedule, the new normal. Give it a few weeks, and give her some time to settle into the job. You GOT this, Cali. Take that bike ride.
Go LIONS!
LiveNow
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
Hey Luke. You are both under a lot of pressure so this is going to happen. The thing about a backslide is whether you take anything away from it. I think you will.
Her coming home late was a trigger for you, clearly. So what can you do in the future to avoid allowing that trigger to cause you to react negatively?
I'm thinking you going to sleep on the couch isn't really how you wanted to react, right?
Message received ... and as I did share I considered it a back slide and was honestly surprised with my reaction to the whole deal. I admittedly have never handled 'change' very well ... went from 2 months of fairly constant texting to nothing and that did a number on me. Live and Learn .... but I do appreciate everyone's opinion, which I am in agreement with.
Its a harder line to walk over on this side .... detaching was something I always struggled with, and maybe its just the fact I have DB'd so long. All that being said, the fights/spats we have had over the past few months are nothing compared to what they once were.
Yesterday W TM about 4:30 that she was going to hit the grocery store, if I needed anything .. then TM a few tidbits, lighthearted. I was stuck in traffic with S and did not get home till 5:30. W still was not home ... I walked the dog, cleaned up ... W finally gets in about 6 ... I did not say a peep, (look who learned a lesson) Instead I sat and listened to W talk about her day, the job, this person and that person for about 20 minutes. She continued to talk as I put together dinner for S.
We opted to not do the 'hmwk' and instead confirm/plan our trip. We spent a solid 2 hours booking hotels, cancelling the old reservations I had as we planned out 3-4 stops along the way, planning on stopping in certain areas. Things were a little tense as it was all business .... but we got through it without a tiff.
We spent some time with S, read his book ... this has started to become a normal thing, one I think all 3 of us enjoy. I walked the dog, then we put S down .. W jumped into the shower as I watched one of my shows. W came out ... asked if I was tired as she crawled into bed .. I joked and asked if that was a sign .. or a question. We did 'play' a bit ... then after we stayed up and talked about some things she looked at on FB, then I suggested we watch one of our shows... this seemed to excite her (I knew she was not sleepy) ... normally I would have just went to sleep. She fell asleep about 15 min in .... I ended up watching the rest then went to sleep.
I have noticed ... granted I struggle with patience, but more than that I have a hard time just relaxing and letting things move on their own... maybe its the 'Mr Fix it' in me that I really need to watch. I have stopped giving her advice when she talks, in fact I am the STFU Posterboy there, but I think deep down I am still figuring out how Cali 2.0 fits into this new life, trying to get comfortable in the new clothes and wondering when and if this turbulent ocean I have been almost drowning in will ever calm down and level out.
That and oh ... the triggers .. everywhere. the big ones I have addressed. Even some of the new ones I have caught myself creating. I have to take these pills ... twice a day ... in my head I named them OM pills ... I stopped myself a few days ago realizing I was just feeding power to that. I made a joke about em ... they are blue pills... but not the blue boner pills one might guess. Its the smaller triggers and one at a time .. or just maybe two I am ok. Give me 3 little ones and yeah ... I need to take a walk. I know .. time ... so I accept that, process it the best I can and try to remain indifferent about it... much harder than I thought it would be .. though you all warned me it would be.
Just thought I would journal a bit. Things have been settling down some ... the Tuesday backslide was talked out little by little throughout the week, honestly I felt better after the blow up .. as uR said .. its a steam relaease thing. Knowing this, and realizing it only is destructive to the work being put in I did address it ... our hmwk .. we have a question we write on, I chose to write on "How do I handle things that you do which upset me, what can I do differently" ... .I described to W what I went through (to a point .. taking some things out) but more so that things will get to me and when this happens, rather than to have it out, I need to blow off some steam, I will tell her politely that I need to go walk, run, or maybe a Bike ride and IF I am still upset after that, we can set up a time and discuss the issue civilly without the high emotions ... thinking about this ... I should have thought about it earlier as many things I would be over if I just got out and ran them off vs getting all worked up. She liked the idea and thanked me for figuring out a solution.
As far as the M goes. Its strange ... feels like I woke up from a horrible dream that lasted 3 years ... W shows more and more of her former self, playful, sassy .. all those things I loved about her. I had pulled back a bit the past week as I catch myself still pursuing a little .... and as predicted she comes closer. Strange how this push pull dance was always there and I was so very blind to it.
Saturday we went to a movie as a family, had a great time, did a nice lunch, finalized our vacation plans... its been hot here so anything to get in AC we were all about it. During the day there were a few triggers for me, biggest one was a song "I'm not the only one" by Sam Smith .... I swear written for a LBS... I was just listening to the lyrics in my own world ... W grabbed my hand and squeezed it... I came back to earth and flipped the channel. I handled it well but they were still on my mind a bit. That night trying to go to sleep in our bed it came back and hit me ... the A, a couple visuals .. then realizing those sheets are the very ones that were on the bed all the sudden it felt like I was sleeping on dirty potato chips.... a good deal of spinning .. I decided to go sleep on the couch. W woke me in the morning, asking why I was on the couch. We talked about it a bit ... she actually brought it up ... this time pretty understanding as I told her sometimes I just get hit with a wave of thoughts and its tough to shake, then shared my potato chip feeling .. even laughed about it. I was not upset nor angry .. nor did I want to dwell on it ... so I took her and S out to breakfast, an old diner we always used to frequent.
Later that day, I had Softball practice, rode the Harley .. GAL still in full swing, felt good to play, was a great day to ride. Came home ... showered and went to the store. W wanted to run errands and S and I were going to hang out ... she ended up wanting to stay as it was to hot for her. We ate dinner as a family .... this has been a wonderful change, no TV, phones, iPads ... W and I went for a long walk in the evening. Later that night we started our 3rd book we read with S, this one is a big one. We each take a turn reading a page or two ... while S was reading I caught W staring at me ... she used sign language telling me she Loved us 3 all there reading together.... then a ILY sign. W fell asleep ..I put S down and slept on the couch ... its cooler in the living room and I did not want those potato chips on me. W woke me up again ... telling me she was going to get new sheets today.
This ILY stuff, its strange. for 2+ years this woman hated me and was quick to let me know how much. Now ... ILY's are frequent almost to the point its not comfortable, the pet names .. 'babe' 'honey' ...Funny I have heard her say them but had to ask "what did you call me" ... laughing as she asks if its ok and me replying .. "Its better than a few names you've tossed at me" .... this used to just be the way we were, but now I feel like its a movie, I check myself and think ... wait .. the past 2-3 years happened right? I mean just as fast as she turned into an alien .... she has come back. There are some differences .. big ones here and there but none that I would not accept so far. I also seem to have calmed down this week ... less anxiety about the old M, even with the bed and the sheets, its not something I am worked up over.
So countdown is currently at 12 days and this guy goes on vacation ..California Redwoods.. its been some time and I am really excited about it, always wanted to go up there and check em out .... bought a GoPro ... should be fun (Would be better if I brought the Harley .. lol)
Hi Cali- I understand your confusion on the hairpin emotional turn W has made.
When I woke up from my own depression, I snapped back to wanting things to the way they were (after treating my H very poorly for 3 years!).
Remember, she stop may not recall a lot of what she said/did to you. I certainly did not. A few months ago I remembered that years ago I took down my wedding picture. I still don't remember why I even did that. H asked me to put it back when he noticed it vanished. But I hid it so well, that it took me a week to find it! Found it when I woke up.
It may not all feel genuine; my H distanced because it was too overwhelming a turnaround. For me, though, it was real. I woke up! But, I woke up to wanting to be with him and not to all I had done to him.
Regarding the A, one of the things my awesome DB coach told me is that there is nothing like making love to the person you are bonded to through marriage and/or children. You have something with her that no one else can have, ever.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
I don't really think its 'confusion' per say ... just more an observation, I learned (ok uR is watching .... ) I am learning to stay out of that MLC noggin the best I can, not trying to figure her out nor what she is processing as honestly .. not my circus, not my monkeys.... I am just trying to steer clear of certain tents and worry about my own cages.
As far as her recalling what she has done and all that, given the current state of her memory thats a given, but its ok. Not everything needs to be rehashed and gone over, nor am I at a point anymore that I need closure on things she did/said. There are things however that are still 'out there' that I do feel should be talked about and dealt with ... but as the vets have said .. now is not that place of is this the time. I am sure it will come out someday, its nothing that has me stuck at the moment ... as currently I am in a pretty solid place to be honest.
It hit me today while I was walking around the facility. I am pretty darn blessed. Before all this hit the fan ... I was just stuck in a M, was not happy with the M, my job, my family was just 3 people in a house, I was all about work, DJing, and seemed always in a hurry. Now.... I really love my job, starting year 3 here this month and its been nothing but upside since I have come here. I have a decent group of friends, we play softball, football, and starting up a Fantasy football league. I have a buddy who I hired here, we just talked today about Harley rides on the weekends and meeting up to ride together to the softball games. My W is doing much better than this time last year ... she still has her journey to walk ... but I consider myself lucky to be at this point, to have that chance at the least.
Speaking of which ... forgot to add in my last post. So W has been all over the trip, planning and all that, she always loved to plan things like this ... she takes over and I would let her ... this time I never allowed her to just 'do it' .... she tested here and there wanting to stay an extra night at 'X' but I reminded her I initally planned this trip, was flexible in some areas but the whole point was time up near 'Y'. This lead to later in the day... she is still looking at properties ... if you all recall we got into it a few weeks ago about this her 'window shopping' places that were not in what I considered a 'safe' price range. And by that I mean if she loses or changes her job, (happened in 2009) I do not want to have to pull DJing 3 nights a week again to cover. My job I am at is paying much more than I used to make, we could buy a house in what I consider to be a moderate price range. So now she has been showing me places more along those lines. At this point I have nodded my head here and there, telling her this time I plan on using my VA loan (Just as I was going to do when we divorced) and told her VA will give us an approved list and from there we would have to figure things out but I told her I did not think we were 'there' just yet. She pressed on why I felt that way .. I just gave her 'the look' and she got a bit defensive and said "I told you I am committed to this, what else do I have to do?" ..... I STFU there but did think ... hmmmm rings on for starters, her FB page is still blocked and has her maiden name (Not important but bugs me, social media wise you would never have known we were married even before BD .... an issue for me but not high on the priority list) ..... I simply told her #1 she needs to be employed for a year before we can apply ... and well yeah .. #2 just 5 months ago we were scheduling D meetings my apologies for not feeling we are 'there' .... she took this well, I was a bit thrown I even had to explain it.
Anyways ... I am taking tomorrow off, Sick day .. use it or lose it ... figure an early check up, Harley ride ... and continue to move things into the garage.
Luke, a funny thing happens when an MLCer starts exiting the tunnel. While they re-enter slowly in some ways, in other ways, they want to hurry up.
You are kind of setting the pace, which is a good thing. She is feeling a bit impatient. Funny how the tide turns some in this regard, yea?
It's important to take the time to walk part in the right way.
As I've said, there will be fits and starts, waves and tides. It's all part of it. You are navigating some rocky waters and sometimes you and she will lose your footing a bit.
uR .... yeah that pretty much describes it, warp speed in some spots and turtle movements in others.
Just thought I would journal a bit ... avoiding this pile of papers on my desk.
This week has been interesting, testing in new areas from W ... not sure if they are on purpose of of the subconscious variety ... either way I think I have handled them better this week. Seems to be in 2 separate areas
Monday she had a Dr appt, this Dr is her IC/massage/life coach type person. From what I have shared seems to be good for W at this time. W told me the apt was from 6-7, and she would be home about 7:30. The last issue we had about W being late we got into it a little bit, she tossed out the "You'll never trust me again" card .. I simply pointed out in our hmwk book the suggested keys to "Trustful Behaviors" and #2 was "Call when you are going to be late" ... I told her I do not need to know where she is every second as she suggested, in fact she could come and go as she wishes .... this behavior however does not earn trust ... but out of my control to be honest. Later when she calmed down she did apologize. So around 7 she TM that she messed up, the appt was running till 7:30 and she would be home around 8. My ears perked up a bit (Dr office is near OMs area) but I again reminded myself ... out of my control no need to get worked up, S and I had fun playing, wrestling and playing uncle (NTS never play this again, he is getting strong) W arrived home and I was PMA ... she immediately showed me some items the Dr gave her, like she had to prove she was in fact there the whole time (I did later see an email receipt of her payment transaction that put my mind to ease) Tuesday night (last night) ... she had another errand to run, said she could do it next week, I told her just take care of it now as the trip is coming and these free days are going to go by fast. Again .. said she would be home by 7:30 ... some things happened and did not get in till 8 or so. Telling me all about it ... again like she is proving herself. I did catch a TM with the 'friend' they were planning on meeting so he could give her a map for our trip. She told me all about her day but never mentioned anything about this ... Mind-reading here, I think she avoids telling me much about him to avoid any fights/issues. I'm not to thrilled with this 'friendship' given the OM/A but on the positive side, she is no longer deleting this stuff. We talked a bit in bed and went to sleep. I was satisfied I did not react to her coming in late twice ... would have been easy for me to go nuts ... I give myself a 180 and a golf clap
The second area ... one I have been thinking about off and on for the year I have been here is the respect issue. I feel like over a long period of time I lost respect for myself, and in turn W had little respect for me. Maybe its just something I am focused on currently but it has been towards the front of my thinking ... earning respect back. I took yesterday off, had a Dr appt and decided to use the rest of the day to get things done. DMV, moved some clothes into 'our' place. Pulled some things out of storage and into the garage. Took almost all my culinary stuff and went through the kitchen getting things in order. This prompted me to clean out the freezer and the fridge. Enter MLC crazy here, there were some wicked things in that fridge!! I kid you not ... one of her health smoothies, cup and all ... like 2 sips in the freezer along with 2 half eaten bagels from what I could tell .. 1954. Anyways ... got it all cleaned out and did some laundry while I was at it. W comes home, shares her day and all that ... we put S down and she still needs to put her stuff away and get her food together for the next day, she opens the fridge and a "Wow, this is awesome" erupts from the kitchen. I was in the MBR at the time, she comes in and I smile, "Like that do ya?" I asked ... then her reply was "Yeah you are an excellent housewife" .... I did not care for this at all .. did not blow up or anything but yeah .. it rubbed me wrong, grabbed the dog and walked as per my 180. Got back and decided its to late to get into anything I let it go. This morning W got up to join me for a walk, she did most the talking but cracked on me again .. this time about getting old and hearing loss (I received something in the mail about hearing due to my job) telling me my AARP card was soon to follow. Again ... its another crack on me. I kept walking until she said another comment about making sure I had dinner hot n ready tonight. I stopped and very very calmly told her I was really starting to tire of the 'shots' I brought them up each individually, and how I felt they were disrespectful. She got defensive as she typically does when confronted, said she was joking, I pointed out that the jokes were all at my expense and I did not appreciate them, one here or there yeah its a joke, but consistently lately this seems to be a trend, one I will not just stand there taking the constant criticisms. I was calm, not upset ... just felt I needed to set that boundary. She was upset .. I let her be, jumped in the shower then started ironing my shirt getting ready for work. She did com in and apologize, understood where I was coming from and told me its her mother, its how she was .. and I was right to call her out on it, something she will work on.
I am thinking about this ... just felt its something I needed to do, is it a big issue, no... but I just feel like if I continue to allow it its a loss of respect for myself, and W will not respect me if I continue to keep taking it ... this is old M stuff that I do not want to relive any longer. I might be missing something deeper here ... not sure.
I think those "little" things that bothered you from old marriage should be addressed as you are doing. Otherwise it could blow up or build resentment. Instead, sounds like you are handling it calmly.
Sounds good to me
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Luke, you know I am all for you speaking up about how you feel about things. Communication is key throughout this. I also don't believe the MLCer gets a free pass on their actions.
But in keeping it real with you, and as AJ has mentioned to you, it's important to be careful it doesn't become something else and I agree.
She was going to be late and she TM'd you. Next night she was running errands you encouraged her to run and let's face it, they often take longer than we think. She let you know again.
As far as those "digs", I wasn't there so I cant know how they felt. You have said she can be playful. I am not sure they were meant to sting.
Just want to be sure you are reacting in a way that is a reflection of who you are, yea?
Hi Cali! I really admire the way you have been handling the OM/A triggers. I can only imagine how tough that would be.
The comments from W sounded playful to me. I know many couples who do that, my W and I included. In our case I'd say it's even a good sign... for a while the space and eggshell walking prevented much of that. I'm glad to have it back!
It's generally considered a good sign when one can laugh at themselves. AARP card? Yep, got mine!
Maybe you have, or can, play back at times?
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
I know how you feel about the little comments here and there. They add up over time. I think it is oaky to talk to her about how it makes you feel. I would suggest next time to not talk about it right after it happens. I would wait and bring it up at a time when you feel she will be more receptive.
Me: 30's W: 30's M: 12yrs EA: Started 3/2015 MC Started: 4/2015 She moved out and served 6/2015 PA: Confirmed 10/5/2015 2 young kids
"If you do not stand for something you will fall for anything."
I can take a joke, and when she is playful and joking/flirting I know it ... these little darts were not like that, and I took a couple ... gave it some thought just to make sure I was not over reacting ... just so happened she tossed another and I felt I better address it. We did discuss this last night, she compared it to when I would pat her butt .... I mean nothing by it but it really sets her off, I told her its similar I suppose but I never hit that level of anger, just did not want this stuff to build up.
This lead into a conversation about the 'then' and the 'now'. Judging by her moods this morning I might have said something that upset her. We were doing our hmwk ... been a few days and we should have probably not done it last night as she was in a rush, evident by what she wrote ... very basic ... reminded me of highschool when you would just hand in something just to say you did it. Anyways I had to explain a feeling of being anxious and relate it to a memory. I picked last year when I was having horrible headaches and my Dr insisted I leave work and check myself into the hospital ... later on that night I went through a CATScan fearing a possible tumor, (I had a nasty concussion 2-3 years ago) .... anyways as she read that she told me she was sorry she was not there, I told her it was ok as she had to pick up S (I always pick him up but had to call her that day for her to do it) .... she told me she should have been there ... I was not thinking really but I told her I did not expect her there as she was with OM at the time and I accepted I was on my own .... This was all true but sharing that was not really a good move on my part. We talked a bit ... put S down and went to bed. W woke up around 1-2 ... which woke me up, she ended up going back to sleep and I was spinning over a few things ... amazing how these things come out of no-where ... figured I would just list those things here to try to get them out, maybe make sense of where they are coming from for future growth:
-Wife says she is committed to the M, yet rings still off, FB status still separated, she did mention the trip coming up on FB but all posts she has made seem like its just her and S going. (This was MY vaca that I planned for S and I regardless of her prior to her saying she wanted to work on the M) -Did some work on the old Computer last weekend, discovered an email to BIL from W Subject "Marriage issues", seeking MC advice back in 2011 ... I had no idea -OM2 as I will call him, 'just a friend' ... but my radar is pinging .... I chalk it up to insecurity and did stop the stinkin-thinkin quickly last night on this topic, though the urge to grab her phone and snoop was strong I didn't. -Post session this weekend on Intimacy and Sex ... ugh, I have been good about not pursuing/pressuring this but I do still feel alone in this M, little to no connection with W .. patience. -Been a bad week sleep wise, for us both, which adds to the frustrations .... I do hope we can traverse through this without a blow up. -Taking the new meds twice a day is a constant reminder of the A and STD (though I could easily not take them as we are not 'there')... still working on this, stings a bit. -A book I ordered a few weeks showed up in the mail, W was grumpy as it was this morning and brought it in .... the title was about dealing with rebuilding after an A ... not so great timing there as I have been solid about not bringing the A nor OM up till last night.... though it was just a matter of fact type of thing, not all emotional/hurt.
This part is very very hard. I struggle with still trying to just be myself, struggle with all that has happened. Thankfully tonight is my first softball game of the season so I can get out... a welcomed break, I work tomorrow night ... then we have our Post Session Sat morning.
[b]Hey Luke. As I wrote, I wasn't there so no way to know how those "digs" felt to you. Please understand that I am in know way saying you need to succck up whatever she gives you because I am not. Nothing wrong with explaining your feelings. I do feel like you don't get her reaction to the butt pat...doesn't really matter if you do. To her it is disrespectful, ya know?
I just know that those of us who have gone through this can be sensitive to certain things and we need to look at them.
Ok, so, I am going to just throw this out there....cuz I can. . Are you thinking about that she may not respect you because you are letting her back in? Do you think maybe you aren't respecting you for that a little? Just some things to think about.
As far as the OM...you cant always pretend he didn't exist. Probably wasn't the right context in which to bring him up, though. May have been better to say she was living her life or whatever, but, it's done so you just need to move on about it.
Have you told your w that you are bothered by her rings and facebook status? Although you are still separated, but, I get what you mean. Those things, to an MLCer, are usually the last things to change. They do still have the actions of teenagers for a good while.
Hey uR ... always a good word and helping me continue to grow.. thank you.
Yeah ...I get the disrespectful love pats ... plus that's a trigger from the old M to her hence why she compared it to my concern about the 'digs'.... its hard for me NOT to do that but I have learned she takes them 180 from how I mean them ... so I restrain myself.
I was trying to process 'aloud' if you will. Lately looking at myself and my feelings I am cycling a bit ... not stable ... granted I am not throwing stuff one day, crying the next ... but I do feel some cycle between 'ok new M and new future' with fears of the 'old M old issues creeping in'. W and I discussed them a little and how I shared that those undelt with issues in the old M were a catalyst in how we got to the point we did (leaving MLC out of this). She did bring up the fact that we just never knew how to cope/deal with them .... was a true point, one we do seem to at the least be doing some of now. But that respect thing I have focused on as of late ... and we all know when you focus on something it becomes bigger. You might be onto something there uR, I do feel in a way she was 'allowed' (Does not seem like a good word ... but can not think of anything else here) back into the M maybe to easily ... like she had her A and all the 'fun', did not work out and here I am #2 who did not 'go anywhere' .... I have wrestled with this ... granted she could have easily went OM2/3/4 or chose to be solo ... but in a way I do wonder if I let her back in to easy... Conversely its not like I want to punish her either ... maybe somewhere in the middle?
The OM thing ... yeah I agree .. and did not intend on it 'that' way .. I was very matter of fact about it but thought about it after, I would not want to hear about it anymore than I would need to if I was her... but the fact I never seen him in person, only the ONE pic he had on FB and Instagram (same pic) its like he is a ghost who continues to haunt ... less and less but a ghost just the same.
As far as the rings/FB status ... oh left out she changed her FB to maiden name as well back during BD along with blocking me and my entire family. I am not 'as bothered' ... maybe just numb, but more so as I am still somewhat guarded, I think when the rings go back on its a sign she is fully committed. She has shared she talks at her new job with new people and her and a friend shared husband snoring stories, another that she told a guy her husband (me) cooked amazing chili and ribs that she misses and can no longer eat (dietary restrictions) around this time for football. There are some positives I should announce along with things that bug me. For now .. those things I listed do not need to be talked about (I just wanted to vent and get them 'out there' for later) .. I think in her time these will work themselves out, I do think however I will have to press her on the FB status/name as it just feels like she is living a single life through social media ... again her choice but not one that is 'trust building' and I think given the right time, that discussion would be an easy one. I laugh as my current status is also 'separated' an I do not want to change it putting pressure on her ... same reason I am not wearing my ring .... oh this crazy mess makes no sense does it?
We are 9 days away from family vacation, I am giving myself a goal to be PMA, Mr Funtimes and avoid any R talk or issues, I want this to a great memory for S .... and hopefully W ... the vacation thing is a huge 180 for me, W called me on it today in a joking way "I'm sorry, is this Cali? The same man who would not take a day off let alone an entire vacation?" I joked back "Mrs Cali this is officer Reaper and we are sorry to inform you the old Cali died but your replacement should be home shortly" ... did prompt a laugh and a snort .. to which she was not happy about .. new job .. embarrassment and all
I have read your entire novel and something springs to my mind.
In the current situation, do you see the balance of negative and positive things leaning more in the positive direction? It sounds like that is the case. I think that alone is a HUGE step in right direction.
GO BRONCOS!
M: 38 W: 37 T: 20 M: 19 Kids: Stepson?20, S19, S16, D12 BD: 02/19/2015 (She moved out) PA Confirmed: 02/22/2015 (She is now living with OM) Dazed and confused: 09/13/2015
I have read your entire novel and something springs to my mind.
In the current situation, do you see the balance of negative and positive things leaning more in the positive direction? It sounds like that is the case. I think that alone is a HUGE step in right direction.
GO BRONCOS!
Late .. wow .. GAL .. no seriously GAL .. lol I from time to time go back and read an oldie just to see where I have been to where I am .. there is alot to sort through there.
Yeah there is no doubt a serious shift. W and I actually talk, and its mostly positive. She did say some time ago that as bad as it sounded she needed the A and that failed R to realize her faults and her mistakes in the M. I see that ... would rather have not been 'this' way .. but as I mentioned before I would not have become Cali 2.0 without all this either. So yeah Huge steps in the + side for sure.
Even this week as hard as it was .. W said "ILY" and I asked her why? She told me "You are where 'home' is" ... ofcourse I told her I was looking more for "Cuz you are the sexiest man alive" but I will take it. Another plus .. last night our new thing is eating as a family, I typically say grace and all 3 of us hold hands. I asked W and S "Who wants to say grace?" W looked and me and smiled and said "I like it when you do it" ... making me realize that I am leading this family in more ways than one ... after Grace she commented on how good it was.
So yeah .. I may not post all the positives, but there are plenty
OK off .. GAL .. Softball tonight .. Game #1 for the season!
In regard to your "separated" status on FB, here's something you might want to think about as Cali 2.0.
Perhaps after getting back from the vacation, you can update your FB with new photos and change your status to "married" as a natural progression of your situation. I suspect that your W will not feel pressure from that change because it happened organically.
I am rarely wrong...but I'd like to think that one would be the "right" move to make in regard to the FB status. In a way, you are taking the leadership role with saying grace and no electronic devices during dinner time. So the FB change is one more notch in your leadership hat.
Hmmm .... I just do not know. I read this last night on the way to softball and thought at first might be a good idea but just had a vibe that would be me pushing .... figured I would give it some thought.
Well ... went to my GAL, had a good time ... went 4-4 3 doubles and we won 21-2, so yeah I had a blast. Hung out talking ball for a bit then came home. Just got the bike in the garage and the phone rang, W .. all up my junk about where I was ... I was unaware there was a curfew imposed nor did I think I was 'that' late ... (9:15, game ended at 8:30) I come in and she starts up and I thought 'Hello Monster, its been awhile so glad you could visit' .... she starts in on me about a number of things, I listened for a bit until I heard "You are out there doing your thing on that Motorcycle I do not approve of .." I stopped her pretty quickly with an "Excuse me? I do not need your approval for the motorcycle" she side stepped that and dodged it like that movie the Matrix. I quickly jumped into my spew jacket like a seasoned Marine in a foxhole. She went on about a few things, all over the place like she was searching for those buttons that have been removed. Then she threw the book at me, literally .. the book "after the Affair" that just came in the mail. Told me .. "Here take this I do not need it thrown in my face every single second" I took the book and placed it on the table where my keys are face down ... told her I was going out to walk the dog.
It hit me ... PMS time. I came back , jumped in the shower, grabbed a couple pillows, said goodnight and slept on the couch.
Woke up this morning and more Monster from her, I engaged here and there with some truth darts. She was telling me how hard she was 'trying' and went to her go-to "We are Oil and Water" ... mind you Oil and water for 25 years now. I listened for a bit, STFU ... validated .. but did get to a point truth darts were in order, darts about her preaching positivity but she has been pretty negative all week, saying she is committed to the marriage but on social media she poses as she is single ( Yes I brought up FB) .... she fired back that I am not wearing my ring and that I lost it or threw it away like I did our M (I almost laughed aloud here), I pointed to where it was and reminded her that it was here who said she was 'not there' and 'not ready' and then stamped it with something we learned in Retrouvaille with a "You seem to still want to live a single-married life and that is your choice, not something I want nor chose to do" ... she ramped up a bit and brought up the A, I calmly stated .. "again, that was a choice you made, not me" Then she brought up sex ... and our issues there and implied things about the A and OM, I told her she was free to make that choice again if she chose again ... then ended the conversation (That button is still firmly available)
I left pretty calm, and honestly felt ok with not taking bait, not yelling nor getting upset ... I hinted to her that when she PMSs she looks for a fight (She told me in the past she did this with OM .... even wanted my advice at the time .. ummm yeah-NO) She called later .. calmer ... and confessed she thinks she might be PMSing, she has no control (I did not agree here and think she uses this as an excuse to be verbally abusive, something I did not allow her to do this time) ... I cut the call short and said I needed to get back to work.
Ugh ... hope it blows by for the weekend but I have a feeling I need to clean off that spew jacket.
Just keep in mind..... remember how your reacted when she didn't text you on her first day of work and when she didn't come home quickly enough how upset you got? Not an excuse for how either of you reacted..... but probably a good chance to put yourself in eachother's shoes.
I'm also surprised your W reacted OK when you hinted that when she was PMSing she is looking for a fight..... usually when a man says that to a woman WHILE she is actively PMSing, it causes a woman to flip a sh!t. Definitely hand her some credit for the apology.....
Honestly, there are few women who use the PMS as an "excuse" to pick fights. But for the most part, there is minimal control when hormones are involved.
I have a confession that makes me feel like the crappiest mother. But it's only me and my D8. No other adults around the house. She is a huge button/boundary pusher and when I am PMSing, my patience is not there. I am highly emotional and hormonal and I become a b!tch with my poor 8 year old, then I cry about it. If I could control that, trust me, I would. I feel like the most awful parent when I get mad at something I normally have patience for.
And another word of advice, issues that could wait, should wait until that time is over.
Here's the truth from me. I don't care about your w or your marriage right now. It's you I care about. I also don't care about FB. It's not important. It just isn't. Yours says separated...hers does, too. Whatver. It's not real life. LET THAT GO!
The rings, too. Yours are off. Are you committed? You are still married. Stop worrying so much about pressure and do what feels right to you. Live your truth, Luke. Live the way you choose to live in a way that reflects who you've become. You are putting way too much importance to things and stuff. It's actions and feelings that count.
If you don't want to change your FB, don't. If you don't want to wear your rings, don't. But don't judge her for her choices. Nor allow them to indicate where she may be in all of this because that will just make you crazy. She isn't even sure where she is right now.
Ok, so, maybe its PMS, maybe its not. But heres what I think part of it was. You gave her a hard time about coming home later than she should have...so she did the same. Is it the same because you feel you have reasons to be suspicious? No. Does she realize that? No. She is feeling guilt and feeling as if no matter what she does it wont make a difference so she lashed out. Is it right? Nope. But it's how she feels.
You keep saying that her actions don't indicate her commitment. Do yours? Saying that you don't need her approval about the bike is not exactly marriage building, right? I mean technically you don't need her permission about anything, but...
As far as the book..I would imagine that was a button for her, no? You get my drift?
The PMS thing...you don't want her to use it as an excuse yet you know what its that time, she changes. So, is it a reason or isn't it?
I am also thinking that you heading for the couch everytime something happens is not moving you forward in the marriage. Maybe nothing would have resolved it, but, you didn't really try anything else.
PMS is a real thing. So, if you believe that to be true, then you need to develop ways to handle it and she needs to see a doctor about whether there is anything she can do about it. This going round and round every month isn't helping anyone.
Your buttons were pushed, Luke. The same old ones. The way to not allow that is to find new ways of dealing with this.
I am not being hard on you. I hope you know that. It comes from a place of caring.
I want to make it clear that I do not believe that you should be verbally abused, nor should you suck it up. But you do need to work though some of the stuff you are still holding onto or this will continue.
You know I have felt all along that this was moving too quickly. Others may disagree and that's ok. But I have seen it on here and in real life way too often. Things have to be resolved in order to move forward and build a new foundation.
She feels guilty and like she cant do enough to satisfy you. You don't feel like she is all in and are still reeling from the affair and the sex issue. Those are big things to get through, but, you must.
What do you want, Luke? Are you fully committed? Its ok if you aren't. Just realize that. And if you aren't then you have to accept that she may not be either. Doesn't mean this cant work. It's just that reality has to be accepted in order to figure out how to continue.
Ugh ... hope it blows by for the weekend but I have a feeling I need to clean off that spew jacket. [/quote]
I also do not mean to imply it's ok to be verbally abusive around that time (I am not with my daughter either, I just lose patience very easily and the smallest things really upset me when I PMS)
I can see where she feels the guilt and you may climb up on the high "you had an A and I am kind enough to let you come back" horse. Those two dynamics will clash. So she individually needs to deal with her guilt, and you need to individually deal with the A.
Are either of you doing IC or MC aside from retrovaille?
I hand it to you both. I don't know if I could have handled repairing our M after the A if that was even an option on the table. Maybe if he was a decent person inside if he did the work, and even under those circumstances, it would still have been probably the most difficult road I walked down.
Maybe you both need to take a step back while still moving forward with repairing the M. Or get some additional outside help with your own issues.
I do wish you the best and surely think it could work, but as anyone knows, this process is certainly not linear.
Curious...has W always been like this throughout the 25 years you've been married? PMSing like a clockwork every month? Isn't she peri-menopausal?
I don't get all PMSy at all. I just deal with it like one deals with a paper cut.
WOnka .... yeah for the most part, and I typically pick up on it like last night, just her facial expressions. I would say 4/5 are pretty nasty
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
Just keep in mind..... remember how your reacted when she didn't text you on her first day of work and when she didn't come home quickly enough how upset you got? Not an excuse for how either of you reacted..... but probably a good chance to put yourself in eachother's shoes.
I'm also surprised your W reacted OK when you hinted that when she was PMSing she is looking for a fight..... usually when a man says that to a woman WHILE she is actively PMSing, it causes a woman to flip a sh!t. Definitely hand her some credit for the apology.....
Honestly, there are few women who use the PMS as an "excuse" to pick fights. But for the most part, there is minimal control when hormones are involved.
I have a confession that makes me feel like the crappiest mother. But it's only me and my D8. No other adults around the house. She is a huge button/boundary pusher and when I am PMSing, my patience is not there. I am highly emotional and hormonal and I become a b!tch with my poor 8 year old, then I cry about it. If I could control that, trust me, I would. I feel like the most awful parent when I get mad at something I normally have patience for.
And another word of advice, issues that could wait, should wait until that time is over.
Thank you Ginger ... might be something I need to think about because honestly at times I feel like she pulls the PMS card to lash out and spew as much venom as humanly possible .... then acts as if nothing happened after .... again .. its the unresolved stuff under the carpet that starts to build up.
Here's the truth from me. I don't care about your w or your marriage right now. It's you I care about. I also don't care about FB. It's not important. It just isn't. Yours says separated...hers does, too. Whatver. It's not real life. LET THAT GO!
Ok uR .. I put my helmet on ... here we go.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
The rings, too. Yours are off. Are you committed? You are still married. Stop worrying so much about pressure and do what feels right to you. Live your truth, Luke. Live the way you choose to live in a way that reflects who you've become. You are putting way too much importance to things and stuff. It's actions and feelings that count.
I am .. and have been committed to this M, as we discussed in a way I feel she path may have been paved almost to smoothly. With the job, it has that feel of the old M, I come home, cook, clean up, trash, dog and she tosses out a critical comment here and there making me really think 'Is THIS really what I want?' Again ... feels like that old M .. its an itchy heavy jacket I just do not want to wear. You are spot on with the actions and feelings ... I am just not seeing them from her as of late.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
If you don't want to change your FB, don't. If you don't want to wear your rings, don't. But don't judge her for her choices. Nor allow them to indicate where she may be in all of this because that will just make you crazy. She isn't even sure where she is right now.
Ok, so, maybe its PMS, maybe its not. But heres what I think part of it was. You gave her a hard time about coming home later than she should have...so she did the same. Is it the same because you feel you have reasons to be suspicious? No. Does she realize that? No. She is feeling guilt and feeling as if no matter what she does it wont make a difference so she lashed out. Is it right? Nope. But it's how she feels.
Thing was ... I told her I would be back by 10 ... if anything I was early. I do agree she is feeling guilt and what she is doing will not make a difference...not sure where I can help her out with this .. her feelings are her own. When she spews she gets nasty and its just not something I feel I am going to take ... either I validate, or truth dart.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
You keep saying that her actions don't indicate her commitment. Do yours? Saying that you don't need her approval about the bike is not exactly marriage building, right? I mean technically you don't need her permission about anything, but...
I think the thing for me here is this. She does not complete things she starts. Her IC recommended a book, we talked about it .. bought it (expensive) with the intention to read together ... I have read the entire thing, she is on chapter 2, and has moved on to her romance novel. A second book .. again something she brought home wanting us to read .. I finished that .. she read the first chapter. Even the Retrouvaille stuff, for her its just the twice a month meeting we attend and a little work in between, she has not read through the material ... feel like highschool and she just cheats and uses my answers. Seems like right now she knows she needs to do some work, but really is not digging in and doing it .... I can not force/control this .. nor have I mentioned the books, its just an observation. I have read this is typical and one spouse will put more effort in than the other, realizing this I am trying not to be resentful ... under spew its tough.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
As far as the book..I would imagine that was a button for her, no? You get my drift?
The PMS thing...you don't want her to use it as an excuse yet you know what its that time, she changes. So, is it a reason or isn't it?
I am also thinking that you heading for the couch every time something happens is not moving you forward in the marriage. Maybe nothing would have resolved it, but, you didn't really try anything else.
The book, yeah ... agreed .. trigger. One I did not intend, book was for me in hopes to deal with the A, and what I am now calling the OM Ghost, never met the dude but I am haunted ... something I know I have to get through and have hopes this will help. The PMS thing I am struggling with, not sure what I can humanly do, staying away gets to her, being around gets to her ... 25 years I have yet to solve that riddle. The couch ... we did talk about it that night. We both have not slept that well this week. She is a light sleeper, very light .. if I move .. it startles her and wakes her, which wakes me. So I told her I would sleep out there so she would get some rest ... this time was not out of anger or punishment ... more about avoiding tossing more gas on the fire as far as I was concerned.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
PMS is a real thing. So, if you believe that to be true, then you need to develop ways to handle it and she needs to see a doctor about whether there is anything she can do about it. This going round and round every month isn't helping anyone.
Agreed
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
Your buttons were pushed, Luke. The same old ones. The way to not allow that is to find new ways of dealing with this.
I am not being hard on you. I hope you know that. It comes from a place of caring.
I want to make it clear that I do not believe that you should be verbally abused, nor should you suck it up. But you do need to work though some of the stuff you are still holding onto or this will continue.
You know I have felt all along that this was moving too quickly. Others may disagree and that's ok. But I have seen it on here and in real life way too often. Things have to be resolved in order to move forward and build a new foundation.
She feels guilty and like she cant do enough to satisfy you. You don't feel like she is all in and are still reeling from the affair and the sex issue. Those are big things to get through, but, you must.
What do you want, Luke? Are you fully committed? Its ok if you aren't. Just realize that. And if you aren't then you have to accept that she may not be either. Doesn't mean this cant work. It's just that reality has to be accepted in order to figure out how to continue.
I want to be ... I guess its a cycle, I am waiting for things from her before I consider myself 'all in' .... much of this has to do with the several times she bounced from OM to me, this week really felt like that ... no contact still but like I said .. the Ghost is there, something I am processing through.
I think she is as committed to the M as she can be right now, is it enough for me ... no. But thats ok, its more than she was this time last year. Its like she wants that warm secure feeliing ... she almost seems to need it, I had hopes with that she would work through her issues and she was. Then the job came back into play, something flipped on and these things are now placed on the back burner and no longer being addressed. This has my attention, she was doing well... very focused on herself and improvements and now the stress of the job is back, she is struggling to keep up with normal errands we all have. I noticed it takes her so much longer just to do these things, the more rushed she gets the more she panics and things take her longer. Just observing ... and have tried to help out quietly where and when I can without her realizing it. (Doing all S's laundry, sweeping up outside, vacuuming, cleaning all the dishes she leaves in the morning) ... she is so frazzled as of late she thinks she did these things (Mentioned the other morning 'where did I put the crockpot... I had washed it and put it away)
I am trying to stay calm, observe ... but yeah at times I also do not want to be beat on any more. I need to just let this happen and allow her to figure herself out. I do not want to be with someone who does not want to be with me .. I know that much ... nor do I want her to feel trapped or caged. I think the vaca will hit at a perfect time for me .. I could use a break .. get away from here for a bit and just 'be'
I also do not mean to imply it's ok to be verbally abusive around that time (I am not with my daughter either, I just lose patience very easily and the smallest things really upset me when I PMS)
I can see where she feels the guilt and you may climb up on the high "you had an A and I am kind enough to let you come back" horse. Those two dynamics will clash. So she individually needs to deal with her guilt, and you need to individually deal with the A.
Are either of you doing IC or MC aside from retrovaille?
I hand it to you both. I don't know if I could have handled repairing our M after the A if that was even an option on the table. Maybe if he was a decent person inside if he did the work, and even under those circumstances, it would still have been probably the most difficult road I walked down.
Maybe you both need to take a step back while still moving forward with repairing the M. Or get some additional outside help with your own issues.
I do wish you the best and surely think it could work, but as anyone knows, this process is certainly not linear.
I do think thats where things are different here. Before BD and all this I would just accept the PMS storm was hitting... had no idea but things got worse as she was just so angry all the time. This round was alot like that ... I really did not push her nor a button. As I told her, I thought possibly this was coming from the miscarriage we had 9 years ago .. that always comes up and it is around this time (I can not recal the precise date .. Aug 20something) and may come into play here. Now, I do seem to have more of an issue with the "I'm hormonal deal with it" attitude ... I am pretty understanding, but that does not give her the right to go after me as she did ... sure we have issues, lets discuss those ... but she went from button to button looking for a fight, and became more upset the harder she tried and the longer I lasted.
As far as the A ... yeah .. its tough. I have said here before, DBing and letting that go was one thing ... was easier to just say "You are having an A, your choice, not my issue" .. in a box it went. Now trying to work on the M its there, we have talked about it but its there, a scar ... right there, and its a big one. I feel like its a birthmark on my face, sa much as I have accepted it and tried to just make peace with it ... in the mirror its there. Hence why I am still working on this, books, reading ... even thinking about IC again.
As far as MC/IC ... she is seeing an IC, but from what she has shared, it has not been much about the A, or even her stuff at the moment, they are currently working on posture, her spine, and diet. She has not seen the priest in some time either due to working.
MC I would be all for, and I intend to suggest we look into it because Retrouvaille is about done Post session wise, and to be honest the 'newness' is over and feels like we have lost some momentum, W does not appear to be engaged ... again back to isses with completing things and seeing them through.
You get great advice anyway from people who know far more than me (UR's advice is top quality for example) so i generally stay quiet, but the couch thing has struck me a couple of times so I thought I would post.
I know I don't have all the details but I wonder if its something you might be a bit too ready to do.
One of the ongoing issues with your situation seems to be about intimacy and feeling safe (on both sides for a bunch of reasons) and I'm not sure how the sleeping on the couch plays into that.
Do you know how your W feels about it when you do? I suspect on some level it makes her feel alone and given other things you've said I wouldn't be surprised if she feels like its you bringing up the A (even though you're not)
What would happen if instead of grabbing the pillows, you instead did something like saying you want a few minutes to yourself to cool your head a bit and made both you and your W a cup of tea (I'm British....its what we do....).
Sometimes my reading is that the couch is an escalation (punishment?) Of button pressing and that a bit of space and defusing might resolve it. Or even agree to put it on pause to the morning and just enjoy lying in bed with each other
Anyway I think your doing a really good job in very difficult circumstances. You should be proud of yourself.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
You might have hit something here. Granted I am not to keen on handing W a hot cup of tea in the heat of the moment for personal safety reasons ...lol. That said I do think there might be a few things there. Last night I did not do it out of 'punishment' but previously .... there has been an element of 'taking my ball home'.
I had not thought about how this makes her feel especially in the light of the A and sleeping alone knowing I am there but not there, that bed is a trigger for me (then again so is the couch), was our bed and knowing the A was there ... and the horrible things that come with all that betrayal/hurt/pain... well yeah. It still is here and there and like all things, the level and duration of the cycle varies.
I do not think she cares for me sleeping on the couch, seemed last night she did not come right out and say it, but I can see your point here and I believe its valid.
Ty for your perspective ... was a good one.
As I process ... bottom line is there is a good deal of pain and hurt that I still need to get through. Seems I have to do this under the surface, I vent here some, but mostly its processed as I can in my way and its taken me by surprise the things that trigger me. Commercials, movies, tidbits from her spew where she will say something and I warp 'there' ... as of late I have struggled a bit ... try to purge this all here so its out, but even then I leave fragments out.
I just want to be 'right' again. I read something and realized I too do this ... I am normal with everyone, everyone except W, still have walls up ... walls that hide the really good parts of me, I question if I do this out of protection of myself .. or punishment towards her, something I have been wrestling with for the past few weeks. Does is even matter why? I think it does ... protection would seem 'normal' ... punishment just tells me I have not grown to be the person I really would want to be. Also shows me I have not forgiven.
Forgiveness, Trust, Love ... all 3 are decisions. Decisions I need to make. More work to still do on my side of the fence that's for certain.
Hi there. You are getting me to worry about you lately. URworthy hit on a lot of things.
I am no expert but this is what I see. You of course love your W and want your M to work, but you are still working through many issues resulting from the past couple of years, mainly the A. A biggie. You seem very wary if you can trust her motives and unsure just how much you will put up with, or even put in to this..Seems you want to be all in, but only if she is first.
Your W is still working on so many things. She is dealing with facing what she has done, losing and starting a new job, having you back in her life to work on the M and having a full time family again. She is also aware you are watching her every move. That's a lot for someone who has it all together let alone someone who is just coming out of a fog.
You both have so much going on inside still, are you sure you aren't moving things a little quick? Is it possible to extend your lease, and try dating and getting to know each other slowly again, to begin a new R? I just worry that moving back in together so quickly is creating a lot of pressure for you both. I know before you had said you didn't feel it was too quick, but if you had just met someone, would you live together after 3 months? IDK, seems like when the spouse comes out of the fog, the R should be treated as starting a whole new one all over again. At least that is how I see it and would want to with my H if the option came...I think taking it very slowly would be the best way for 2 wary and unsure people to have the chance to sort things out in regards to their feelings about their spouse and themselves.
As for sleeping on the couch....you are using that as a punishment, right? I can honestly say, having my H live in the house with me but sleep in a different bed has been one of the most painful memories of this whole mess, a true slap in the face, total rejection. I did an entire cleansing of that room, incense and all, and I still get whiffs of his cologne that bring on a wave of sadness and horrible memories. Please try to work on this.
Cali, you know we are all rooting for you and I am one of your biggest fans. I want to see you and your W on the reconciled list! Take some time to step back, what do you think can help you both to work through this? Think of the big picture, what feels right to you?
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
I do feel in a way she was 'allowed' (Does not seem like a good word ... but can not think of anything else here) back into the M maybe to easily ... like she had her A and all the 'fun', did not work out and here I am #2 who did not 'go anywhere'
I would suggest you reframe your thought regarding this. You were always #1. OM was #2 and is the one who did not work out.
Cali, it's not hard to see you're fed up with some of the sitch right now. It's not fair, it hurts, and you deserve better. I get that. But here's the thing. Your wife is "in" the M. She's trying. In your words, she's doing the best she can.
And you say you're committed to the M also.
A lot of your recent posts leave me with a sense of score keeping. Yeah, you're "ahead", but is hanging on to this fact going to aid building the new M?
Patience my friend!
If you calmly continue to be Cali 2.0 I'm pretty sure she will continue to step up and surprise you.
What's going on with the physical intimacy?
Last edited by ForeverYoung; 08/22/1505:11 AM.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
"You both have so much going on inside still, are you sure you aren't moving things a little quick? Is it possible to extend your lease, and try dating and getting to know each other slowly again, to begin a new R?"
Hi Cali, sending hugs to you....I've been following along, but TBH you've had such good advice already. I think MLeigh has a point worth considering again. I do think you guys are going pretty quickly into full on marriage again - and ALOT has happened. I can see that you are on a particular course now and it may feel hard to change that. But where would the harm be in suggesting you keep your own place on a little longer to give yourselves a little more time, a little more space to process things and work on re-building? And a little more pressure-free fun....
I think you are on a good course and are making a lot of progress. Equally, you are finding it hard and there is a lot coming at you guys all at once.
Can I also say on the job front - which seems to have been a trigger here...Your W was putting in a lot of effort on the post retrouvaille work before. And that has dwindled now. But she is trying to adjust to full time work again, being a family again, emerging from fog....etc, etc. I can understand the 'homework' starting to feel like 'just one more thing to do that I don't really have time and energy for.' I'm not saying that's right, or even what is happening. But I could understand it.
As an aside, I recently discovered that Retrouvaille is also run in the UK and there's a course this September. Clearly we're not at that point - but just in case someone else is and is reading this!!
I also agree on the couch, and think it might be a good time to consider a 180 on this perhaps?
So, in sum I would say - slow down, breathe, reassess, have a think about sustainability and what you need here to keep moving forwards.....take care xx
Last edited by Sotto; 08/22/1506:34 AM.
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Getting over an affair is probably one of the most difficult things one can do. It’s a deep cut, that. Makes us look at ourselves differently. Makes us wonder whether we are so lacking that our spouse made that choice.
We all had stuff in our marriage that contributed to the breakdown of it. Knowing that, I used the affair as the catalyst for the changes I needed to make. It allowed me to look at the ways I may failed in my marriage.
Your wife was unhappy. She didn’t know why. She made some bad choices in her search to feel better. It isn’t the choice you may have made, but, you are not her and you are not in crisis.
As far as he is concerned, he is a fairly typical affair partner. They normally affair down. They choose people who lack many things. It's why the affair very often doesn't last.
He isn’t the problem. The affair isn’t the problem. The problems are the fallout from it. Those are the things that you need to work on…not the bed, the couch, fb or rings. The thing you need to do is to accept that she is human. She is broken and she made some really bad decisions.
So, he is not important. Not in any real sense. He just isn’t. He was a symptom of a crisis and of stuff in a marriage that needed looking into.
Every time you react in a way that is not conducive to whom you’ve become…you make him bigger and more important.
The resulting feelings of rejection and betrayal from the affair become rocks around our necks. We wear them like a shield. Using them to stop what is needed to get in and that is acceptance. Didn’t mean we have to like it or understand it. We just have to accept the choices they’ve made.
Ok, so, I wanted to clarify something. When I write that you may have moved too quickly, I am not talking about that you have “let her off too easily” Because when you say that, it kinda reads like you are in charge of dolling out punishment. When I was going through this, I learned that people do the best they can with what they know, with where they are and with what they’ve got. Not my place to judge, nor my place to condemn because I can only be in control of my actions.
I mean that in order to weather this storm, you have to build a good foundation. In order to do that, you need to be in a place of strength. The way you get there is by consistent actions over time, and by slowly regaining trust. I just think it’s more difficult to do that when you move quickly towards living together before either of you may have let go of what you needed to.
Either way, you have to trust yourself. You have to know, deep within your heart that who you are now is what matters. You have to trust that no matter what happens, you will be ok. You have to own those things that you did in your marriage that caused harm and then you have to forgive yourself and forgive her. (yea, yea, I know AJ…she has to want forgiveness ).
Maybe the damage is so great that you can’t make this work. But let that decision come after you do what you need to do. Let go of what you can. Accept what you cant and then….see where you have landed.
I am not saying that it is easy cuz it isn’t. But it’s the way towards peace for you no matter where this goes.
I am, as always, over here rooting you on with all I have. 
FWIW, I doubt the damage is too much to overcome for you Cali. For her? Time will tell, but I doubt it for her too. I figure if you two can overcome this "test" then nothing will stop you. But I do think you both needed the wake up call even if you wanted it to be done differently.
Quote:
Either way, you have to trust yourself. You have to know, deep within your heart that who you are now is what matters. You have to trust that no matter what happens, you will be ok. You have to own those things that you did in your marriage that caused harm and then you have to forgive yourself and forgive her. (yea, yea, I know AJ…she has to want forgiveness smile ).
The idea of her wanting forgiveness is one of repentance. I'd say you have both repented of the previous ways if I were asked for an opinion on it. Not with words, which can be cheap, but with actions.
Both of you. You wouldn't be where you are if not.
It's tough stuff, Cali. As the old saying goes, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. That applies to couples/partners as well.
I think Ur has some wise words, as do several of the others. A lot to process, Cali. The one piece that really stands out is the idea that you do NOT want to be in a position of defending or attacking in the relationship. That's more of a goal than an end result. But you've come a long way, baby. It may be just over that next rise...
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Cali it is normal to have your walls up. I dont believe it has anything to do with forgiveness. It is normal to be angry and distrustful of someone who has hurt you. It is normal to fantasize that they will fall flat on their face for what they did. It is normal to feel anxious about making decisions and what the right decision is.
It is like having PTSD. Intrusive thoughts, familiar smells will trigger emotions. And you will react to protect yourself. It is an innate defense mechanism.
What im saying is that your reactions are normal. ask your IC if trained in EMDR. Might help.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
WONKA, soory to hijack - but you can take a look see at Lost08's thread. He H is giving her the touchy feely mixed messages that Smothy's was and your early intervention may be useful. Thanks, Py
M: 6 T: 12 Kids: 2,4 BD: Jan 2015 S: Feb 2015 EA/PA confirmed: Feb2015/Mar2015
Rather than quote every single person who has offered their words, just thought I would try to 'lay it out there', the best I can explain it... you all hit a nail on the head and there are a few nails that are up there showing and not flush, things I have been working on pounding out.
This 'piecing' business is tough, seems just as you get somewhat of a handle on how to DB this or that, really finding yourself, gaining what I referred to as 'center', even keel , not listing to the left or the right but remaining balanced... you really get a groove going, I was PMA, had my GALs set and they kept me busy, working on myself emotionally, physically, spiritually ... I was still doing this even after W said she wanted to work on the M because at that time nothing changed. Slowly I started seeing she really did want to work on the M, not by her words but by her actions. With this, all those hurts and pains that I disregarded because... well .. I was DBing my arse off ... like I explained I boxed them up and put them in storage, while going through and working things out with my W its like I was carefully pulling these boxes off the shelf and dealing with them slowly, one at a time, and all the sudden the ladder gave way, I fell and all of these things crashed down on me. I did not feel 'balanced' any more, not that I went back to Cali 1.0, to go full nerd, was like I needed to Ctrl-Alt-Delete but scared to as that new Operating system has yet to be tested with a full reboot ... would Cali 1.0 boot up, Cali 2.0 .. or would the thing fire off at all?
That's where I was at for a few weeks.. especially last week, trying to sort through ALL the things we go through, its easier when you can just run off and keep yourself busy, but I was not really looking at these things for what they were ... anchors attached to my legs not allowing me to walk. With that I was just not myself, not behind those walls I put up for protection .... there is a sense of that, that "She will never hurt me like that again ... I will not allow myself to feel that pain" ... all common, just like I had to accept the MLC and the A did in fact happen, I do not have to like it, just accept it ... same goes with the strange feelings that were creeping in and taking control of me, I do not have to like them, but accepting them for what they are, why they are there, was something I came to grips with this weekend.
So many issues, some old issues with our M, and the new ones the crisis brought. Along with that ... W too was dealing with her own mess of boxes as I was with mine. We talked very openly a couple times over the weekend ... not easy talks mind you, talking some serious sensitive underbelly stuff. What happened after all this for me ... was realizing I have come so far from where I was, and I continue to grow regardless of what is going on, the past weeks were some steps back that I had to do to strip that onion down a few layers and get to some root things I just did not deal with, things I could not deal with at the time I boxed em up.
Thank you all so much for your words, each of you hit something that I have been aware of, and am in agreement ... slowly I continue to grow, one thing at a time ... its easy to get buried in all this when it all comes flooding back at you, but some how I am still upright in the kayak and find myself currently in calmer waters.
It's all so normal. I've been separated/divorced for over 7 years, and while I have dated, there has not been one man integrated into my everyday life. I am honestly terrified (yet ready) to bring someone into my life. I've had so many years of my own GAL, my own work, by own journey of just surviving to actually living, and living with balance, I'm worried about the challenges and issues, ect. that might bring.
And you are doing this with your wife, while overcoming an A, and while she has her own issues to deal with. So this is going to be a tough, slow, sometimes backwards process. You just got to keep your eyes open, be aware of what makes you uncomfortable or reactive and work from there.
TY Ginger ... yeah it is not easy nor for the faint of heart I think
So sitting here ... just wanted to share a couple things that happened... .Update if you will.
Friday night .... I think it was uR who said something about 'blowing off steam' for us both ... it does feel that way, like things we both have going on build up, might have little to do with the other person but teapot on the stove starts to whistle all on its own. I got home, W was already there .. RARE... I forgot she had a dental appt, as we arrived she had the dog and was just headed out for a walk. Invited us to join. I walked along, still miffed at 2 things she had said during the spew. She was all smiles and acting as if nothing happened ... this irked me more as in the old M, I might accept this but now, lesson learned .. sweeping things under just builds resentment. She asked what was wrong, I told her we could talk about it later (not in front of S). Once back in the house, we talk. I simply and calmly told her how I felt, more about what she said and how I felt about it. She at first did as she always does, ultra defensive and went on the attack, I STFU, she kept on, again ... STFU ... then something seriously strange happened, I just STFU and she continued to talk, share, then started crying , more sharing, more tears .. Me .. STFU .. not a word, I am talking at least 20 minutes ... she just started pouring out things as I looked at her, not. saying. a. single. word. it was almost awkward but I kept zipped like watching a bottle get knocked over, the impulse is to do something, but there is something about letting it all spill out and empty itself. If you are new ... even if you are in the middle, end whatever, STFU, LISTEN ... W shared things that were in her 'boxes' .. talking deep fears. She confessed she HATES the fact on Friday nights I go back to my place, that A book was a 'trigger', fears about me throwing in the towel, comments on how I deserve so much more than 'this' and how she can not take it back, fears she destroyed something women dream them could have. She apologized relentlessly not just for things recently said .. old stuff. Again .. I STFU. Then the time came I validated a bit, she asked me where I was, what I thought and to a point I shared a couple things, nothing huge, but some issues I have, concerns about 'repeating mistakes' from M1.0 ( I even called it that and laughed to myself as I had to explain it) It was just a good talk. We shared. I took the dog out before I had to go to work, did my gig and came 'home' this time ... as in the past S was in the bed with her and I slept in his bed so I did not wake them. I typically get in about 2-3a.m. ... she woke and came into the room, we talked a bit .. hugged, and fell asleep. (She thanked me that night and again in the morning for coming 'home')
So ... Saturday woke early to go to the Post Session. Seemed all the sharing the day before felt like a clean slate, no pressure or angst. We arrive to the Session, the topic ... Intimacy/ Sexual Relationship. The couple sharing was the same couple from the weekend, Suffered from the H having a 15 month A with OW ... same story, refused to give OW up, W then dropped rope and pressed for D .. he woke up. The W told her story ... could have very well been me up there, so similar. Right down to her sharing her feelings of how she felt getting tested for STD's, in a way verbalizing some pain I have been feeling and could not put words to. Was a seriously intense session. How she came to terms with the A, all the hurt, the triggers after ... along with the H expressing all he then had to do for the h3ll he put her through, all the work it takes, and how backslides happen and what one can do. After on the drive home W asked as usual, if I got much out of it, if so what, then I asked the same. I told her I did in fact get alot out of this one, did not really open up and share just asked her the same .... she opened up and said it was very eye-opening. We openly talked, much like Friday about intimacy and ... dare I say it .. sex. I confessed ... as much as I am a man and have needs, I am not ready. I know I am not ... I still have the Ghost of OM ... something the woman from the Session explained aloud PERFECTLY .... which made me feel at least I was not nuts ... but W and I did share things, things we want/need things that increase intimacy along with 'turn offs'. I then pointed out .. in 25 years we have NEVER had a conversation about OUR sex life, not open like that ... and what a shame it took all this, but on the same token I was happy to have this conversation with her. Sunday ... low key ..I cooked an amazing breakfast for the family..church, shopping, and conversations focused on our family vacation...180 of mine .. Last Vaca was 9 years ago and now I plan on once a year.
Luke, I have always written that people feel as they do. There are no wrong feelings..it's what you do with them that matter.
And I hope, in all this time that we have been corresponding, that you got from me that what you are feeling is completely normal. All of it.
I have seen what you are made of and I, too, don't think this is too much for you both to overcome if that's what you want.
So, I just want to say this. In order to reconcile, certain feelings that are perfectly understandable, need dealing with.
The way to peace (and to bacon ) is to work through each thing and then let it go.
You are right, dbing is completely different in piecing. SOme of the elements are the same, but, you need to open yourself up and with that comes some tough stuff.
This journey is amazing and crazy and difficult and all sorts of stuff in between. But man, it changes your life. It changes how you look at things and people. It changes your priorities and your beliefs. And I don't know about you, but even with all the tough stuff, I am grateful for it.
You are doing it, Luke, in your wonderful Cali way. I am amazed by how hard you've worked.
That's why I've challenged you, though, and it's why I've stuck by you.
Those shadows...the things we want to look away from..those are the things that are usually the most important to address.
Sometimes we have to back up, then take a running jump..to make it over the big puddle, yea?
Thank you uR ... I can not express how much I appreciate you, fuzzy 2x4 and all when I come off the tracks a bit.
You are right ... I reflected on some things yesterday, the journey to be specific ... even with all the 'issues' currently, I am much more grateful to be 'here' than where I was 6 months prior to BD, call me crazy but at least now these things are being addressed, living is taking place .. not just going through the motions as I once was.
Sounds like the sessions are helpful. Very happy to hear how other experiences can be helpful to you. I think you'll find that there will be more that is helpful as you keep steppin'
Quote:
It was just a good talk. We shared
Sad as it is the path taken, if nothing else comes from this experience, it's good to know that after 25 years you can share with each other at a deep and intimate level.
And if you haven't noticed, that level of intimacy is the most priceless part. I know many people are surprised to find that sex or physical intimacy are far better (far far better) if shared with two very intimate people. Oddly, I recall my pre-marriage session with the pastor that married us. He said the same thing. I've known all along he was right, but haven't always known what it would it take to get that to the extent I've learned over the years.
Sex is easy. Casual relationships are easy. Deep, meaningful, intimate relationships like we all deep down crave? Those are priceless regardless how you get there.
It seems to me, an outsider of sorts, that you are learning skillz that you didn't have before. I think its normal to feel upside down and topsy-turvy while you re-tool. Enjoy the ride, amigo. You can see it's worth it now, can't you?
Enjoy the vacation!
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Hey Ginger....just live, sweetie. Just be open to the possibilities. We aren't guaranteed happiness or a life without pain. We just have to go for it and see where we land with the knowledge that we lived through one of the most painful things we could and came out the other side.
It may be hard with someone, there may be challenges and issues....but there can also be incredible joy. And man, how lucky would he be to be with you.
Hey Ginger....just live, sweetie. Just be open to the possibilities. We aren't guaranteed happiness or a life without pain. We just have to go for it and see where we land with the knowledge that we lived through one of the most painful things we could and came out the other side.
It may be hard with someone, there may be challenges and issues....but there can also be incredible joy. And man, how lucky would he be to be with you.
Go for it, my friend. Just freakin go for it.
You always make me feel worthy, ya know. And help me find my own worth.
When my time comes I know it's going to be scary and challenging and definitely not linear. But I'm going to embrace it and go for it, because leaving fears and challenges bring the best things in life.
And yes, AJ, sex and casual relationships are easy. But those deep intimate relationships are priceless and worth all the work in the world. Especially she. You have two people who want to work for it.
And Cali, your wife wants to work for it. And she is. It's easy to walk away and stay away. And she is coming back and facing her demons to make your M work. And you could have started over too and you are putting in amazing work.
I know, whatever the outcome, you will have no regrets.
Cali...I want to comment on something you have mentioned a few times, about not trading in this experience, as it makes you see and appreciate things differently. Something like that...
Anyway, on my marathon walk this weekend, I was looking at the sky, the clouds, the cute homes I was walking by, saying good morning to people on their own walk and jogs, and just truly seeing all the beauty around me. I was never that way and I know it is a result of my own experience.
Pretty amazing how this changes us. And to think, if we can carry this into our R, like the new M you are creating with W, it could be pretty amazing and eye opening, the little things around us, how beautiful they are
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
The W told her story ... could have very well been me up there, so similar. Right down to her sharing her feelings of how she felt getting tested for STD's, in a way verbalizing some pain I have been feeling and could not put words to. Was a seriously intense session. How she came to terms with the A, all the hurt, the triggers after ... along with the H expressing all he then had to do for the h3ll he put her through, all the work it takes, and how backslides happen and what one can do.
Wow. I think that would have been a good talk to hear. How did she describe the feelings related to STD testing? I am going this week... I've put it off for a long time and am even questioning whether it is needed after all this time & no symptoms? Not sure if that is logical or me trying to find an excuse not to do it. Ugh. But if relations were in January & it is now August...
I think you're doing an amazing job at all this. I understand the feelings of questioning whether or not she can be the spouse you want & if it is the marriage you want. I think all the things that come up create these feelings as well as the trust issue. I've been having periods of this too. Thinking- wouldn't it be easier to start over new with someone who wouldn't put me through this? Someone I don't have these triggers with? But in the end, it wouldn't be easier... just different. And then there are the kids to consider as well.
I hope you guys have a great vacation & that your w does get to go. Our vacation really did wonders for us in regards to connecting w/o the stressors of life and for giving us a lot of time together to enjoy one another.
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
Sounds like the sessions are helpful. Very happy to hear how other experiences can be helpful to you. I think you'll find that there will be more that is helpful as you keep steppin'
Yeah .. for me, just hearing this woman lay it out there. Not only was it what she said, how she so clearly descibed the pain and humiliation ... but the fact that this was 17 years ago and you could still hear the hurt ... made me sit and think, its one thing for someone to go through this .. then you add in the fact she did, managed to salvage her marriage .. but on top of that became involved and was brave enough to share her story in order to help people she never met .... the fact her WAH was sitting right there, having to relive this twice a year ... tough stuff and I respect them so much for what they are doing.
Originally Posted By: AJM
Sad as it is the path taken, if nothing else comes from this experience, it's good to know that after 25 years you can share with each other at a deep and intimate level.
And if you haven't noticed, that level of intimacy is the most priceless part. I know many people are surprised to find that sex or physical intimacy are far better (far far better) if shared with two very intimate people. Oddly, I recall my pre-marriage session with the pastor that married us. He said the same thing. I've known all along he was right, but haven't always known what it would it take to get that to the extent I've learned over the years.
That's the thing, we did have that.... for a long time then it just seemed to fade somehow, life and the things it brings took over and twisted the priorities all up. Now its getting over all that, plus not trying to relive the past 3-4 years.
Originally Posted By: AJM
Sex is easy. Casual relationships are easy. Deep, meaningful, intimate relationships like we all deep down crave? Those are priceless regardless how you get there.
It seems to me, an outsider of sorts, that you are learning skillz that you didn't have before. I think its normal to feel upside down and topsy-turvy while you re-tool. Enjoy the ride, amigo. You can see it's worth it now, can't you?
Enjoy the vacation!
AJ
Yeah .. the Re-Tooling is the 'strange' part ... along with how we are handling the day to day things that would create a fight .. which would lead to that vicious cycle of same old things. We have dipped a toe in that pool here or there, she will bring up a past issue and my goto response has seemed to work here with her, "We do not want to go back to the past, lets focus on what this is really about and stay in the present" ... this has worked in my case. Fighting Fair ... was not always something her and I were good at, she pulls a knife, I would pull a gun only to realize while I was doing that she switched to a bazooka ... result was total devastation and no one 'wins' .... realizing its not about 'winning' and more about understanding the other persons perspective has been a big breakthrough ... its not always easy ... but as I have said before .. its better now than this time last year.
And Cali, your wife wants to work for it. And she is. It's easy to walk away and stay away. And she is coming back and facing her demons to make your M work. And you could have started over too and you are putting in amazing work.
I know, whatever the outcome, you will have no regrets.
Yeah, she actually called me out on this Sunday, I said something to the effect of "If you want to work on this M.... " she jumped in and said "Cali I AM working on this M, there is no IF about it"
As far as the Demons ... I am not sure if she is truly facing them at the moment, seems like she has gone more the 'keep busy route' ... new job, upcomming trip, she is all over the camera stuff. I am just observing, understanding those boxes of demons are not something she is going to dive into full force ... she will deal with them in her way on her time table and I would suspect I am not going to be any the wiser while she is actually doing this. Her Circus .. her Monkeys ... I have my hands full with my own.
Cali...I want to comment on something you have mentioned a few times, about not trading in this experience, as it makes you see and appreciate things differently. Something like that...
Anyway, on my marathon walk this weekend, I was looking at the sky, the clouds, the cute homes I was walking by, saying good morning to people on their own walk and jogs, and just truly seeing all the beauty around me. I was never that way and I know it is a result of my own experience.
Pretty amazing how this changes us. And to think, if we can carry this into our R, like the new M you are creating with W, it could be pretty amazing and eye opening, the little things around us, how beautiful they are
M you hit on something that has been with me for the past few months. The CHANGE .... funny how 2 years ago I harldy can recognize the man I was ... and it all started with an effort to just get up and make my bed. I head someone just yesterday talk about this ... making your bed every morning, setting the tone on your day, as small and petty as it it .. just making the bed gives you a feeling of acomplishment, amazing how that small thing, that singular decision was the first in many steps to my transformation ... and with all journeys, its that first step that is crucial.
Anyways .. I wake up around 5 every morning, take the dog out for a walk. He is old, now blind .. but still my puppy ... walking I see other similar people walking thier dogs or their spouses and its strange, something inside of me must have changed because everyone says "Good Morning" ... even if I do not say it first. This never happened to me before .. its like you said .. the trees are greener, the grass smeels fresh, even the people are much nicer ... for the first time that I can recall I love my job, I have an amazing son who makes me laugh, I look forward to church every Sunday .. even desire to become more active during the week there. I have my GALS still going ... notice nothing about W or the M in there? Its because I am comfortable in my own skin for the first time in my life it seems. Regardless of what happens with my M, ... yeah .. this journey while I would never wish it on anyone else .. I also understand I would not have made the really tough changes required of me without all the pain.
That which does not kill us makes us stronger could not be more true in my sitch .... I know deep down I ... yes I will be ok.
Wow. I think that would have been a good talk to hear. How did she describe the feelings related to STD testing? I am going this week... I've put it off for a long time and am even questioning whether it is needed after all this time & no symptoms? Not sure if that is logical or me trying to find an excuse not to do it. Ugh. But if relations were in January & it is now August...
Her sitch, she discovered the A, and her WAH did what we have read here over and over .. Lied/denied and took it even more under ground. They did MC and it never helped (With OW still there go figure) Then they did Retrouvaille ... about 2 months after the weekend during a post session she discovered the A was still strong, she dropped roped and filed for D. WAH woke up, So they did Retrouvaille AGAIN ... this time both all in, but prior to that she scheduled STD testing, as she put it...it was not a discussion. She shared she could not even look at WAH, as they sat there she hung her head, they called them in, the technician knew what they were being tested for and she felt judged, ashamed, betrayed, all those raw emotions... shared as these things flooded her she cried... WAH tried to console and ... well as you can imagine was lucky to have not lost an arm .... VERY raw and intense moment hearing her speak ... I was glued to her, managed to look over to my W and she was not looking my direction at all ... just one of those moments when you hear someone say precisely what you have felt, verbalize it for you ... it helped me know that I was not alone, was ok for me to hurt like I did.
Originally Posted By: hopeOK
I think you're doing an amazing job at all this. I understand the feelings of questioning whether or not she can be the spouse you want & if it is the marriage you want. I think all the things that come up create these feelings as well as the trust issue. I've been having periods of this too. Thinking- wouldn't it be easier to start over new with someone who wouldn't put me through this? Someone I don't have these triggers with? But in the end, it wouldn't be easier... just different. And then there are the kids to consider as well.
I hope you guys have a great vacation & that your w does get to go. Our vacation really did wonders for us in regards to connecting w/o the stressors of life and for giving us a lot of time together to enjoy one another.
The trust thing ... It was there but I smiled at myself just last night. W was in the living room all into her camera gear, laid out as she was packing up her stuff, organizing, checking to make sure its all in order, I went to shower. On the bed ... her phone. Knee-jerk reation was to grab it and look ... then I just kept walking, I realized ... if she was hiding something, she would not leave it out ... the fact she did leave it out like that ... its new, the past 3-4 years that thing has been attached to her, as of late ... its just a phone and she does not flinch if I pick it up and move it, hand it to her, whatever. I think it was RobX that posted something to the effect of "If I have to wast MY energy to ensure YOU are faithful/trust worthy ... this will not work out for me" ... that really stuck with me, why should I waste MY energy on something she did ... and honestly she very well could do it again, the A was her choice and out of my control just as a 2nd A would be ... no sense ME wasting myself concerned about that. I decided to trust .. its a decision ... if she would like to work on our M and be with me ... I want that to be a choice for her .. not out of obligation nor control from me.
The triggers, yeah they are there .. had one yesterday ... again .. those are things I am working on and really starting to realize they are items I have fed power to .. the only power they have over me is what I give them. Many things remind me of OM and the A ... I am steadily dealing with them, the big ones are all but gone ... the bed is a non-factor, as is the place and the couch ... now its just little things here and there... and I just need to bug stomp those out as they come.
As far as the Demons ... I am not sure if she is truly facing them at the moment, seems like she has gone more the 'keep busy route' ... new job, upcomming trip, she is all over the camera stuff. I am just observing, understanding those boxes of demons are not something she is going to dive into full force ... she will deal with them in her way on her time table and I would suspect I am not going to be any the wiser while she is actually doing this. Her Circus .. her Monkeys ... I have my hands full with my own.
Let's rattle off some items that W has broken down and cried over the past several months:
-STD -Ghost of XOM -Seeing your reactions to triggers -Loss of the M's innocence -Seeing how the A affected S and you -Addressing intimacy issues -Attending Retrouaville
I am baffled by your declaration that you think she isn't "truly" facing her demons. By what yardstick do you base this assumption on? Is it on you to make this 'decision/assumption' on W's behalf??!! Doesn't W have a say in her OWN process at all? In a way, I find that assumption of yours preposterous and a touch condescending.
I'd argue that you're going through the busy route as well with job, softball, DJ gigs, and trying to force "homework" time together ACCORDING to your own schedule. This is called real life, buddy.
Jeez. W can't have some breathing space here to grow at her own pace. That is the problem right there: You seem to think that things must happen at a certain timetable. When it doesn't happen in that fashion, you just throw up your arms and declare that W isn't "all in on the M." Or delude yourself into the fall back option of "well, I am not all in on the M either BECAUSE W isn't all in."
Don't you see how crazy your assumptions and thought patterns are when it comes to W's own process of dealing with the fall out of the A, piecing back the M, and charting a new path as a working woman.
I get your angle ... but like I said .. I am 'unsure' ... its not as if she is working through these things and we discuss them, and the Demons I was referring to are not the items you listed .. those items are the results of the MLC and the A ... not the 'demons' I think about that set her into MLC, to this day I have no idea what it was from her childhood that sent her into this mess (I can only guess what the triggers were that started it) ... she has not shared this/nor have I poked or prodded ... hence why I said "she will deal with them in her way on her time table" I should have added "If she has not done so already."
As far as MY timetable... or giving her space .. when I was reeling a bit last week yeah I most likely pressured and owned it, I have stepped back since and just observed, STFU and listened to her share just as I have tried to do with this entire crisis
The trust thing ... It was there but I smiled at myself just last night. W was in the living room all into her camera gear, laid out as she was packing up her stuff, organizing, checking to make sure its all in order, I went to shower. On the bed ... her phone. Knee-jerk reation was to grab it and look ... then I just kept walking, I realized ... if she was hiding something, she would not leave it out ... the fact she did leave it out like that ... its new, the past 3-4 years that thing has been attached to her, as of late ... its just a phone and she does not flinch if I pick it up and move it, hand it to her, whatever. I think it was RobX that posted something to the effect of "If I have to wast MY energy to ensure YOU are faithful/trust worthy ... this will not work out for me" ... that really stuck with me, why should I waste MY energy on something she did ... and honestly she very well could do it again, the A was her choice and out of my control just as a 2nd A would be ... no sense ME wasting myself concerned about that. I decided to trust .. its a decision ... if she would like to work on our M and be with me ... I want that to be a choice for her .. not out of obligation nor control from me.
The triggers, yeah they are there .. had one yesterday ... again .. those are things I am working on and really starting to realize they are items I have fed power to .. the only power they have over me is what I give them. Many things remind me of OM and the A ... I am steadily dealing with them, the big ones are all but gone ... the bed is a non-factor, as is the place and the couch ... now its just little things here and there... and I just need to bug stomp those out as they come.
Yeah... you are right... my h does this too- leaves his phone around purposefully. Sometimes I do look at it but it has been less & less. A lot of times i can see it & walk on by. So while this is good that he is leaving it around for my access... my negative thoughts sometimes make me think he could possibly be going further underground. Maybe only talking to OW while he is out of the house or at work... he could be using his work land line phone or he could be using his computer at work. So where there is a will there is a way... & I do know it will be his choice. I just don't want to be sitting around for a long time thinking he is faithful & devoted but on the side, very covertly this time, he is still talking to her. THAT is what gets me on my bad days.
But yes, you are so right... it is not worth the waste of energy. And they have to decide they want to be solely with us... not out of obligation or by force. I wonder at what point ppl feel confident in this being true?
And yep... the triggers only affect us if we allow it. It's tough to stay on top of them & some are easier than others!!
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
Thanks for clarifying your perspective in regard to "those demons."
Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
not the 'demons' I think about that set her into MLC, to this day I have no idea what it was from her childhood that sent her into this mess (I can only guess what the triggers were that started it)
What demons are you really talking about here? Keep in mind, those are what you are "guessing" at here.
MLCers vary from each individual. Some reintegrate without 'addressing' the inner demons as it is an organic process. Some do address those demons, like myself.
Are you prepared to accept W "as it is" without her 'working' on her so called inner demons? I have seen MLCers here on the board coming together without getting to the root of the MLC disease. All they know is that they feel into a deep, murky pool called "Fog" and then they come out of it without any real understanding of how or why it happened.
Take me for example here. I didn't have the awareness that the mist engulfing me was MLC because we have no frame of reference that allows us to recognize it as MLC as one would with puberty. Then the fog lifts, and we look around askew wondering what the hell happened to us.
It is an invisible disease that has no rhyme or reason behind it all. The awful thing is that it is not tangible that we can hold on and say with authority "That's definitely MLC" like one with a boy's adam apple (deep voice) or a young girl having her first period.
Are you mentally and emotionally prepared to accept that W may NEVER deal with her so-called "demons" that precipitated the MLC journey??
Thats the thing .... and maybe you can shed some light here. The "Demons" or 'Something' from her past has always been there. During our lives together, on more than one occasion I have had a Dr pull me to the side and ask if she was a rape/molestation victim ... when she goes in for certain tests she has always been extremely uncomfortable ... but nothing ever has come from it. I do not know if its something that has been suppressed, and to be honest I was half way expecting some big revelation about something to this effect once I found out more about MLC. There was a part of me bracing for this ... I have seen/read about traumatic events coming forward to people many years later ... always in the back of my mind with W. And honestly ... not that I wanted it .. but it would not have shocked me for this to have played a role here with her ... again .. all speculation on my part fed by table scraps along the way.
To answer your questions ... of course I accept her regardless, always have, even mid-crisis, and like I said, I am pretty much of the opinion I would not be any the wiser if she dealt with these demons or not (however if there was the 'big' item I mentioned above I would think she would find it hard to hide from me) .. regardless it does not matter, if its more 'the fog' lifted or if she actually did process something that was not at that extreme level.
I think the only thing is ... could she possibly relapse ... that's a rhetorical question btw... one I know no one would have an answer to, nor can I worry about that as just like everything else its far out of my control.
Wonka hit on something big here. Her demons right now are the aftermath of the MLC and the A. Wonka mentioned some serious areas she is working and those are some tough tough areas. And what you said about you saying "if" she is interested in working on this M, when in fact she IS and it is quite clear that she is, even from this viewpoint, it probably makes her feel like what she is doing is being recognized, isn't enough, how you want it done, or at YOUR pace.
I am only 35, so take this with a grain of salt. I believe everyone goes through a midlife crisis. But it's not always a crisis for everyone because their coping skills or awareness are at a different level at the time they go through it. I don't think it always "demon" induced. I think it is actually quite normal to reevaluate, want to make changes, maybe have some regrets in life. I don't think all MLC are triggered by demons. I think most have to do with one's skills to deal with the changes that life brings.
What I think might be important going forward is not to face some "demons" she might have, but to recognize how to deal with the changes and recognize the feelings that could possibly trigger a MLC and deal with them effectively.
And again, this is a conclusion from observations in real life, seeing sitchs throughout the years on the board, and well, going through some major midlife emotions that kind of attacked me approaching 35.
Thats the thing .... and maybe you can shed some light here. The "Demons" or 'Something' from her past has always been there.
We are shaped and formed by our upbringing. It is a part of who we are today. There's no escaping from FOO issues or how the trajectory of events impacted our makeup.
The key in responding to those "demons", in my mind as a former MLCer, is the acceptance of these events that are part of your DNA. For me, I have accepted my parents divorce and am no longer haunted by it. Furthermore, after my late father's passing of lung cancer almost 3 years ago, I visited my grandparents grave for the first time in over 10 years where I really sobbed and let out all of past hurts and disappointments. There was an internal shift that seemed to finally cosign the toothless MLC monster to the dustbin of past history that has zero power to hold me back emotionally.
In hindsight, I did not have the emotional maturity to handle life's natural transitions from various stages. I think this is where many MLCers struggle the most. For me, after some reflection, I was emotionally scarred by my parents' divorce and those fears reared it's ugly head after Ms. Wonka & I moved to our new marital house.
Deep in the recess of my Inner Child's little broken heart, the general feeling was that I was not up to the job of being a bona fide card-carriyng, tax-paying adult with real responsibilities. Some ways, I was not pretend playing the game of Life, but in it! On several levels, that spooked me and I simply couldn't cope with the pressure.
Mind you, the pressure wasn't external. It was how I responded to the new shift and transition as a homeowner with a wife and a potential parent (we discussed having a baby with Ms. Wonka to carry our child). Yep, you could say it was a potent mix waiting to explode.
What did I do in response to these internal fears? I had to get out of Dodge NOW!!!! To save me. Save me from imploding.
Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
uring our lives together, on more than one occasion I have had a Dr pull me to the side and ask if she was a rape/molestation victim ... when she goes in for certain tests she has always been extremely uncomfortable ... but nothing ever has come from it. I do not know if its something that has been suppressed, and to be honest I was half way expecting some big revelation about something to this effect once I found out more about MLC.
Who knows the real reason here. Let me share MY experience here. When I went for a OB-GYN visit, the female doctor whipped out the pap smear equipment and I told her firmly that I am not having any of it. Then the doctor looked at me with a concerned expression and gently asked me if "something had happened to you." I said no. I simply didn't want some inanimate object poking into my private parts.
I was never raped or molested by any one. I just didn't like the notion of having some stranger poking around in my private parts. I know, I know....it can detect cancer etc. I'll just take my own chances here.
Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
There was a part of me bracing for this ... I have seen/read about traumatic events coming forward to people many years later ... always in the back of my mind with W. And honestly ... not that I wanted it .. but it would not have shocked me for this to have played a role here with her ... again .. all speculation on my part fed by table scraps along the way.
W may or may never share whatever "traumatic" experience with you. Some people DO take their own secrets to the grave. W may be one of those few people that do that. Are you more than okay with this...if W never opens up to you?
This is her journey. This is her story. This is her life.
Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
I think the only thing is ... could she possibly relapse ... that's a rhetorical question btw... one I know no one would have an answer to, nor can I worry about that as just like everything else its far out of my control.
Do you have a deep fear that W may be hit with MLC again? If yes, then what? I mean...you're now on this Merry-Go-Round and you are still standing. It sounds like W is really working on the M and I doubt that MLC will hit her again because she's already begun the process of reintegrating herself. That is crucial as a signpost that she's shedding her MLC snakeskin (or in your case...shark eyes).
Cali, this is a bit unrelated to the helpful posts above, but I thought of you today when I was driving home from work. I've been reading some Hearts Blessing stuff lately and one of the things she talked about was being adept at moving easily between attachment and detachment.
When attached, she was working together with her H to rebuild things, but she developed the ability to detach instantaneously (internally) as and when needed. And from what she said she flipped back and forth quite a bit, which helped weather the inevitable ups and downs of reconciling.....just thought I would post it as I thought of your sitch and of what she wrote and thought it might be useful.
Take care xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Wonka ... thank you so much for your insight here.
The FOO thing has been something as of late, she really perks up and its been a very solid topic for us these past few months ... sharing things that we never knew about each other ...little by little bubbling to the surface.
As you said, I may never know, ... she may never know what set this all into motion, it is strange that we too bought a house, had some serious issues about that time ... inside a 3 year span, bought a house, went on our late honeymoon (5 years after M), miscarried a child, birth to S, she lost her job of 13 years all in that span ... was enough for just one of these things to trigger MLC let alone all of them one after the other.
I do not have that 'deep fear' ... its hard to fear something like that, again out of my hands. Would I stand for another round ... boy.. tougher question and one I hope to never answer.
W is really working on the M, I see it .. even more I feel it. Its a slow process but I see her smile, actually truly smile ... the weight is lifting, and there is a renewed hope for the future... we are figuring things out .. issues of M1.0, mistakes we made .. most of all we are talking through them ... not just getting upset, yelling and blowing off steam and leaving these things laying around, but actually talking about how each one FEELS about whatever it is going on.
This is what AJ touched on .. re-tooling .. dare I say being adults about it and actually refusing to let the kids indside us wreck the new car.
Anyway Thank you again for sharing your valuable perspective from the MLC shoes ... I can not tell you how valuable you are not only to me, but to this forum.
Cali, this is a bit unrelated to the helpful posts above, but I thought of you today when I was driving home from work. I've been reading some Hearts Blessing stuff lately and one of the things she talked about was being adept at moving easily between attachment and detachment.
When attached, she was working together with her H to rebuild things, but she developed the ability to detach instantaneously (internally) as and when needed. And from what she said she flipped back and forth quite a bit, which helped weather the inevitable ups and downs of reconciling.....just thought I would post it as I thought of your sitch and of what she wrote and thought it might be useful.
Take care xx
Sotto
I am familiar with HB ... and yeah .. there is alot of truth to that and I do catch myself flipping that 'on/off' switch often. Its really to me more of the Push-Pull dance. I have to detach .. give her space and let her do her thing, then she comes back hard ... alot like during the crisis .. she did the same thing but the throws were longer and tool longer for the return trip if that makes any sense.
Trick is ... not detaching out of punishment, just with a shrug and that faith knowing she will come back. Its definitely a delicate dance, not to push to much, but nudge here and there, keeping the boundaries up without the walls, being open for the hug while protecting your tiwg n berries.
Anyways .. I crack myself up ... but yeah you are spot on with that advice ... thank you!
I have to detach .. give her space and let her do her thing, then she comes back hard ... alot like during the crisis .. she did the same thing but the throws were longer and tool longer for the return trip if that makes any sense.
If she has re-committed to the Marriage, then I am not sure that detaching, has anything to do with where you want to be...
Luke, its a hard road to walk, yea? Sometimes you feel you know exactly where you are, other times you feel a little lost.
They are pushing you on here right now for a reason.
The thing is that I get the fear and the walls and all the other stuff. I do. It isn't easy putting all of that to rest.
But sometimes we get so hung up on where and how we think things should be that we forget to just live, ya know?
We have new tools and new ways of getting through stuff so sometimes we just have to take a leap of faith and see where we land.
I cant tell you if she is fully committed or not. I don't even know what that would look like, to be honest. I would imagine it would mean a commitment to do better, an honest apology for the past, a willingness to work together towards a common goal, a rebuilding of trust and open communication.
What does fully committed mean to you? I think when one is in a situation like yours, there can be some small part that wants the spouse to beg for forgiveness and profess their undying love over and over.
It doesn't happen that way...nor should it. You want to allow it to unfold slowly, with both of you having realizations of what you want and how you got here. You want it to be a gradual rebuilding of a foundation so that it's strong.
That all takes time and patience and most of all...love. Really, at the end of the day, that's the bottom line. This is someone you love and who loves you.
Maybe it isn't happening in the exact way you had hoped. Maybe it is almost anticlimactic in some ways.
My friend, don't worry so much about the push/pull dance and all of that other stuff all the time.
And don't be afraid to open yourself up to the possibilities...and just live.
Cali, cheesy as this may sound, you're my inspiration for continuing my journey. I have absolute faith that you'll handle this well, as you have handled everything else well.
Keep on plugging away, sir. I look forward to more inspiration.
M: 38 W: 37 T: 20 M: 19 Kids: Stepson?20, S19, S16, D12 BD: 02/19/2015 (She moved out) PA Confirmed: 02/22/2015 (She is now living with OM) Dazed and confused: 09/13/2015
Wow, your thread has quite the running legs, Cali! Lots of good information here, plus you yourself are quite good with words and story telling.
Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
We openly talked, much like Friday about intimacy and ... dare I say it .. sex. I confessed ... as much as I am a man and have needs, I am not ready. I know I am not ...
Have you made any moves? Has she? I wouldn’t wait too long, here’s why… That physical connection will make most of the other stuff you're still agonizing over seem so much smaller and easier to deal with.
I’m not talking about all night romps here… you have to start slow. But you have to start somewhere, and I guarantee that it will give you wings!
You've been taking charge/leading in other area's and she's been liking that.
Just something to think about.
Last edited by ForeverYoung; 08/27/1502:41 PM.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Luke, its a hard road to walk, yea? Sometimes you feel you know exactly where you are, other times you feel a little lost.
uR .. you are the Oracle ... its excatly how it feels, during the heavy part of the crisis it was just easier to shrug the shoulders and do my own thing ... a bit tougher navigating the changing tides in this river.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
They are pushing you on here right now for a reason.
The thing is that I get the fear and the walls and all the other stuff. I do. It isn't easy putting all of that to rest.
But sometimes we get so hung up on where and how we think things should be that we forget to just live, ya know?
We have new tools and new ways of getting through stuff so sometimes we just have to take a leap of faith and see where we land.
Yeah I have arrived at that same concept ... making more out of it than it needs to be, analyzing as I do .. realizing it is what it is, worry about me and stay upright. Accept the ups and downs and just keep moving forward as best I can.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
I cant tell you if she is fully committed or not. I don't even know what that would look like, to be honest. I would imagine it would mean a commitment to do better, an honest apology for the past, a willingness to work together towards a common What does fully committed mean to you? I think when one is in a situation like yours, there can be some small part that wants the spouse to beg for forgiveness and profess their undying love over and over.
It doesn't happen that way...nor should it. You want to allow it to unfold slowly, with both of you having realizations of what you want and how you got here. You want it to be a gradual rebuilding of a foundation so that it's strong. we land.
Well she pretty much has done that, the apologizing thing. Like we had hit on 'Forgiveness' Some time ago on one of my threads ... its not like you need someone to ask for it to give it, but I will admit it helps. I read in a book recently its one thing to forgive, but there is that deep seeded self preservation in a betrayed spouse of "I will never be made a fool of again" .... I admit there is some of that, but I quickly realized that was fueling fear .... I could not stop the A, that was her choice, just as if she chose to have another A, again nothing I can do there so why waste energy on that ... which I have stopped, along with that so went the urge to snoop. Even last night she was talking to someone on the phone in the bedroom as I was putting things away in the kitchen, she was not hiding her voice nor being sneaky and I laughed to myself realizing my % of "Who is that" was in single digits .... again those things I was never like before A and OM, and slowly I am coming back to that place.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
That all takes time and patience and most of all...love. Really, at the end of the day, that's the bottom line. This is someone you love and who loves you.
Maybe it isn't happening in the exact way you had hoped. Maybe it is almost anticlimactic in some ways.
My friend, don't worry so much about the push/pull dance and all of that other stuff all the time.
And don't be afraid to open yourself up to the possibilities...and just live.
I think its easy to over think this, overreact, push an issue that easily does not need to be pushed. Its a very challenging thing to not have the urge to 'punish' ... or to bring up things that do need to be addressed, but knowing now is not the time has proved to be golden, for me taking a walk or a run .. giving myself time to just 'be' has helped ... its harder to knock myself off center but conversely when I am off, its harder to get back... I do feel I am there at the moment but I do accept there will be things/times I will need to right myself.
Cali, cheesy as this may sound, you're my inspiration for continuing my journey. I have absolute faith that you'll handle this well, as you have handled everything else well.
Keep on plugging away, sir. I look forward to more inspiration.
LOl .. no pressure right late?
I think you are doing fine ... its not easy and will be by far the hardest thing you will ever do. I think you are doing far better than I was ... re reading some of my sitch I was smacking myself with 2x4's over how obsessed I was with 'OM' in my posts and did not turn that focus towards myself. Looking back I did not feel that focused on him, but reading my stuff looks like I was more than I should have been.
Have you made any moves? Has she? I wouldn’t wait too long, here’s why… That physical connection will make most of the other stuff you're still agonizing over seem so much smaller and easier to deal with.
I’m not talking about all night romps here… you have to start slow. But you have to start somewhere, and I guarantee that it will give you wings!
You've been taking charge/leading in other area's and she's been liking that.
Just something to think about.
FY .. happy to see you my friend
OK, a bit of Full Disclosure here.
The sex thing.
When things started going south, as I have shared it was due to her medical issues. Sex became uncomfortable, then lead to a point it was painful. Doctor after Doctor ... mis diagnosis several times finally things started getting figured out. This was when MLC hit ... enter the beginnings of an A, the newness, rush .. besides the fact OM was 'well trained' as far as this went ... (Later intel, serial cheater, STILL married and OMW told W she was #10 or so in the past 6-7 years) Even then she still had the reoccurring issues that she has to deal with ... just the fact the A and all that helped her get over the hurdle if you will.
So now .. with us ... The intel she learned, the fact she contracted HSV-2. She contracted this Mar14 but was in such a fog, OM was a skilled liar ... she was told either she got it from me and it was dormant ... or from someone else and was dormant ... and just flared up due to her low immune system. OM knew enough info to be dangerous and W was in such a fog she eat anything he served up.... truth is OM has had HSV-2 for some time OMW confirmed this. So after all this there was a fear, and a good possibility she could very well have HIV ... She was retested in MAR, and has to retest again in Sep (Ironically my birthday ... 2 years post BD) so to be safe, and in W's words the fear of not knowing for sure ... the fear she could possibly give HIV to me and rob S of not one but both parents is pretty sobering. I am taking meds to ensure I do not contract the HSV-2 ... but until she can get tested again in Sep, sex is really off the table ... not all bad as we have 'the gift of time' to sort through some issues revolving around it.
Not all doom and gloom, there have been some 'petting' sessions we are slowly at least discovering things about each other, for the first time in our relationship there is dialogue about what each other likes, what we want, etc. She went out this week and shared that she made a stop at VS with me in mind. She bought some dresses knowing I love it when she 'girlies' up for a night out. I suggested a massage night just for her ... those kinds of things...slowly I think we will get there, but that cloud hovers overhead a bit ... till we get a green light there seems to be alot of anxiety in that for her and as much as I would like to push through that ... I think taking a step back and letting things develop after we know we are clear is the way to go for now.
The past few days have been ... just a little 'tense'. W is pretty moody with the PMS thing hanging around, I however am thankful it happened now vs being trapped in a vessel with limited escape hatches!!
Besides this, I have noticed S a bit as of late. Not that he is acting out but I realized over this crisis one of the great things that came out of it other than MY personal growth was the bond and relationship between he and I. So yesterday thinking about this ... W just happened to call from work to remind me she had a IC appt, would not be home till 6:30 or so. SO I told W I was going to take out S to dinner, just he and I, as I felt we needed a little Father Son time, and we would meet up with her at home after, then went on and said I have a Softball game early Thursday (today) and would get him dinner, take him with me so she could have some 'her' time. She lit up, "Really" I said yeah .. I know you have been wanting to get a jog in, and as much as we talked about doing that together, its not always easy, go to the beach and jog, do your thing .. whatever .. S loves coming to my games and we will meet up later.
So S and I went out last night, BBQ ribs and just were two dudes out eating caveman style. He polished off a man-plate of ribs (I almost ruined it by telling him they ran out of real ribs so they used dog) and chugged 2 Dr Peppers and attempted to break the 8 year old belching record ... while his father ate a tri-tip salad ... yep still watching that waistline .. 10 lbs to go. When we got home S hoped in the shower, W was still tense but we talked it out. S was on cloud nine .. which eased W up a bit.
This morning W was in a better mood but flipped quick over 2 socks on the floor in the bedroom (I had JUST taken them off before getting in the shower) ... this was old M stuff ... things like that bug her however the pile of her clothes seem to disappear in her mind, I calmly pointed this out, also reminded her that her constant "Be Positive" remarks toward me could very well be used by her as an example .. I was PMA but tossed a few truth darts ... left as she was getting ready to water the plants, feed the dog, take out the trash .. my morning rituals ... she later apologized and was sorry she was so moody lately. Hugged me and again said she was sorry, but looking forward to the trip and getting away .. I smiled and told her "Don't forget to pack 'Fun-Girl'... Have a nice day" and I left.
Looking forward to this vacation, have an eye glued on funds, but should be ok as long as we do not go all bannana-sandwich on food and souvenirs
You have delivered. I have faith you will continue to deliver.
Enjoy your trip, you've earned it.
M: 38 W: 37 T: 20 M: 19 Kids: Stepson?20, S19, S16, D12 BD: 02/19/2015 (She moved out) PA Confirmed: 02/22/2015 (She is now living with OM) Dazed and confused: 09/13/2015
Enjoy your vacation. This is a new marriage and you need to treat it that way. Leave the "old baggage" behind and just relax and enjoy!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
M ... I'll try to get in and post .... You know how long winded I am ... While I was on vacation corporate did a scan on the computers and logged a few people's "excessive Internet" time , granted I wasn't here but I do post often from work so I figure it's best not to get caught .... So it's just checking and reading from the phone currently, at home it's tough to get any time on the laptop to post, don't want W finding out about DB
long story short the trip went well, towards the end things got a bit tense ...leveled off a bit now after we talked last night. It's strange ... Not sure if others at this point have been through this but along with the "new" changes I've noticed in her she will bounce back a bit, go from the old her to the new her... Seems she is still a bit off ... At times I think she still wants to be free and single but has a stronger pull to be a mom and wife again .... Feels like she is struggling to find the balance
I'll try to post a bit more ... Just hate doing so from the phone ... All in all the trip was amazing, there were a couple really good connection type moments .... We drove almost 2000 miles total, she would often have to go to the bathroom and insist I go along as she joked it would be easy to leave her out in the boonies ... I hope to do a full write up soon
Hope all is well with everyone ... Sorry I have not been as active
Cali, I'm glad the vacation went well. As for her bouncing back and forth from old self to new self...that's very normal until they are fully integrated. She's still got a few months of feeling comfortable in her own skin to go. Please be patient a while longer (that is, if you can hold on for a bit). I'm sending you a brand spanking new patience shovel to help out.
Keep those expectations very low and try not to analyze her every move or comment. She's still growing up.
Take care of yourself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm glad things went well for you. You deserve it!
M: 38 W: 37 T: 20 M: 19 Kids: Stepson?20, S19, S16, D12 BD: 02/19/2015 (She moved out) PA Confirmed: 02/22/2015 (She is now living with OM) Dazed and confused: 09/13/2015
So figured I would try to update since it has been forever and a day. I cannot log on from work anylonger but maybe I have found an alternative way to atleast post ... sneaky sneaky.
The Trip:
As I may have metioned a few times, my W never has dealt with stress very well, along with that she is a type 'A' so stress and control are 2 things that have been old M issues, along with the medical issues she brings at times things can become somewhat challenging. So to avoid this I made a very concerted effort to eliminate alot of these things during the trip. I drove pretty much the entire time .... not a big deal as I actually enjoy that part. I did not allow her to carry any of the luggage to the rooms to avoid her messing up her neck which has been an issue over the past several months. I consistently made stops along the way .. food, bathroom, walking just to get us out of the car and moving around (Huge 180 for me ... I am a get in and get there type of traveler). All this really seemed to help quite a bit for the 10 days we were gone. We headed out, hit the typical LA traffic but once we got past that mess I was playing around with the radio and found an 80's station ... W was bouncing around, re-living the old times .... talking about her youth and things she would do ... she was genuinely happy. The first 3-4 days went pretty well... especially for me personally. I was in a good place, at peace .. PMA was up ... everything was going smooth. Was about the third night I joked with W we should conserve water and shower together (Being in the same room with S made any hanky panky kinda tough) it was more a light hearted flirt but she actually winked and said sure. Was nice... I did find myself washing her, and actually thought of it like I was washing the OM off her .. even caught myself by surprise with that thought ... we just played around a bit but it was nice being somewhat 'intimate'. Lots of sight seeing followed, 2 days/nights in SF, did a bay tour, Chinatown, Lombard Street, all that stuff. Left there and headed north to the Redwoods. First day was amazing, did the drive through tree, I made it a point to read W's body language on the drive and could tell when she wanted to get out and set up her camera ... I would take S and we would explore a bit ... he LOVED it. A few nights there .. W asked if I wanted to shower with her .. so we played around a little bit but there was a little accident .. however I kind of spun, thoughts of OM, insecurities and frustration and I had a tough time shaking it. W however was different about this ... there was a tenderness aobut her, as we got ready for dinner she pulled me aside tole me 'ILYVM' and I told her I just needed a bit to calm down .... I would meet her down at the car when she was ready. She came down ... this was kind of different, she did her hair up like she used to when we were dating, told me she wanted to try something different... that night at dinner, alot of attention from her. We spent a few days up in the redwoods .. made some unexpected stops and found some cool thigns along the way ... on the way back, exhausted from the trip there was a bit of a backslide ... W and I got into it a little bit in the car and there were some of the old nasty fight type stuff tossed out at each other ... we did talk it out, even laughed but it was there ... that cloud of uncertanty I think .. for both of us, even some "I am not sure about this/us and where its all going" from us both. After that 'incident' I noticed W kind of went back to a mini MLC .. hard to explain but ... hiding the cell phone, she disconectted email and FB from the iPad (I could access her account from there) .... I fought the urge off for that week to snoop on her phone, and just decided to DB a bit. To add to things, her car was dead when we got back ... I fixed it but she does not trust driving it so I told her to use my car and I would ride the Harley to work and back ... this means she is dropping off and picking up S.. I actually miss my time with S on pick ups, and seems to add a bit of stress with W along with her sharing her 'cycle' is 'off' due to the new job and the other ladies evidently cycle at a different time. (I really would LOVE for someone to explain this phenomeneon to me one day of how a group can alter the 'cycle') Anyways.... I did my GALs ... spent alot of time with S and just continued to go about my days, I was nice and cordial to her without pursuing. Was about a week of that and she brought up how she did not like the distance she felt with me. We talked some ... again .. I continued to stay on my path. Seems like the past couple days she has snapped out of it ... sending me TM, and emails ... letting me know her schedule and where she is going to be. She volunteered for S's Class Parent, which I think will be good for her. I have been focused on doing alot around the house ... things that typically I did not do that would bother her .. small 180's if you will. This past Saturday we did not have a sitter for the last Retrouvaille Post session, I told W I would take S and run much needed errands ... figured she would do the same, but she surprised me and went to the Post Session without me ... I did not think she would do that, guess I am still not trusting this completely.
So that was pretty much the past couple weeks lumped into one. I had not gone to church for 2 weeks ... amazing how badly that affected me, going yesterday really felt like a battery re-charge and brought me back to center and at peace.
Hi Cali, I'm glad you guys had an overall good trip. Sure it sounds as though there were a couple of trickier moments. But actually, that was a big trip - particularly after a LT separation and so on. So, I think that's all pretty positive.
I'm not surprised your W retreated a little after that. It's all quite a bit to take on board, you know? But it sounds as though you are being honest about how you feel and giving her a little space and time to process things too.
The only thing that raised a concern with me was the changed behaviour with the IT. Has that reversed now my friend??
xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Yeah I felt the same, all in all the trip was great...and the little tiff was just that ... The memories made will flood that small blip out completely I think
As far as the IT goes... I'm assuming you meant the full transparency , I can still open her phone, I've chosen not to just because I've had enough time to accept OM is gone... Still NC since Apr 24 that along with me not wanting to spend any energy snooping and digging .... Besides she has not done anything to really make me think otherwise to this point
Hey stranger. Happy to read your update. I think the trip sounds like it went really well. I have been up North and it's absolutely beautiful. It is a trip I too want to take my son on. Did you camp? Did you hike Fern Canyon by any chance? That hike is imprinted on my brain forever, just beautiful.
It sounds to me like you are making progress. I am really happy to read your W went to the post session on her own. That's pretty cool I say!
I suppose during those tiffs, it must be hard to not think, this isn't going to work, but eventually you will need to accept a tiff as a tiff, not a done deal. I am sure it's just part of the process you are working through?
As far as our female cycles, you almost made me spit my wine out! Lucky for me, I have always been on a birth control with a set cycle, but I have been told that I mess up other women's cycles, so it must be real. Somehow, our hormones cause this to happen. Pretty crazy, huh? It's real fun being a woman sometimes
You sound good Cali. We missed you around here. I get the whole work thing, I can only post at home. So update us when you can and keep up the good work my friend!
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
