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Wonka hit on something big here. Her demons right now are the aftermath of the MLC and the A. Wonka mentioned some serious areas she is working and those are some tough tough areas. And what you said about you saying "if" she is interested in working on this M, when in fact she IS and it is quite clear that she is, even from this viewpoint, it probably makes her feel like what she is doing is being recognized, isn't enough, how you want it done, or at YOUR pace.

I am only 35, so take this with a grain of salt. I believe everyone goes through a midlife crisis. But it's not always a crisis for everyone because their coping skills or awareness are at a different level at the time they go through it. I don't think it always "demon" induced. I think it is actually quite normal to reevaluate, want to make changes, maybe have some regrets in life. I don't think all MLC are triggered by demons. I think most have to do with one's skills to deal with the changes that life brings.

What I think might be important going forward is not to face some "demons" she might have, but to recognize how to deal with the changes and recognize the feelings that could possibly trigger a MLC and deal with them effectively.

And again, this is a conclusion from observations in real life, seeing sitchs throughout the years on the board, and well, going through some major midlife emotions that kind of attacked me approaching 35.

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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
Wonka

Thats the thing .... and maybe you can shed some light here. The "Demons" or 'Something' from her past has always been there.


We are shaped and formed by our upbringing. It is a part of who we are today. There's no escaping from FOO issues or how the trajectory of events impacted our makeup.

The key in responding to those "demons", in my mind as a former MLCer, is the acceptance of these events that are part of your DNA. For me, I have accepted my parents divorce and am no longer haunted by it. Furthermore, after my late father's passing of lung cancer almost 3 years ago, I visited my grandparents grave for the first time in over 10 years where I really sobbed and let out all of past hurts and disappointments. There was an internal shift that seemed to finally cosign the toothless MLC monster to the dustbin of past history that has zero power to hold me back emotionally.

In hindsight, I did not have the emotional maturity to handle life's natural transitions from various stages. I think this is where many MLCers struggle the most. For me, after some reflection, I was emotionally scarred by my parents' divorce and those fears reared it's ugly head after Ms. Wonka & I moved to our new marital house.

Deep in the recess of my Inner Child's little broken heart, the general feeling was that I was not up to the job of being a bona fide card-carriyng, tax-paying adult with real responsibilities. Some ways, I was not pretend playing the game of Life, but in it! On several levels, that spooked me and I simply couldn't cope with the pressure.

Mind you, the pressure wasn't external. It was how I responded to the new shift and transition as a homeowner with a wife and a potential parent (we discussed having a baby with Ms. Wonka to carry our child). Yep, you could say it was a potent mix waiting to explode.

What did I do in response to these internal fears? I had to get out of Dodge NOW!!!! To save me. Save me from imploding.



Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
uring our lives together, on more than one occasion I have had a Dr pull me to the side and ask if she was a rape/molestation victim ... when she goes in for certain tests she has always been extremely uncomfortable ... but nothing ever has come from it. I do not know if its something that has been suppressed, and to be honest I was half way expecting some big revelation about something to this effect once I found out more about MLC.


Who knows the real reason here. Let me share MY experience here. When I went for a OB-GYN visit, the female doctor whipped out the pap smear equipment and I told her firmly that I am not having any of it. Then the doctor looked at me with a concerned expression and gently asked me if "something had happened to you." I said no. I simply didn't want some inanimate object poking into my private parts.

I was never raped or molested by any one. I just didn't like the notion of having some stranger poking around in my private parts. I know, I know....it can detect cancer etc. I'll just take my own chances here.

Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
There was a part of me bracing for this ... I have seen/read about traumatic events coming forward to people many years later ... always in the back of my mind with W. And honestly ... not that I wanted it .. but it would not have shocked me for this to have played a role here with her ... again .. all speculation on my part fed by table scraps along the way.


W may or may never share whatever "traumatic" experience with you. Some people DO take their own secrets to the grave. W may be one of those few people that do that. Are you more than okay with this...if W never opens up to you?

This is her journey. This is her story. This is her life.

Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
I think the only thing is ... could she possibly relapse ... that's a rhetorical question btw... one I know no one would have an answer to, nor can I worry about that as just like everything else its far out of my control.


Do you have a deep fear that W may be hit with MLC again? If yes, then what? I mean...you're now on this Merry-Go-Round and you are still standing. It sounds like W is really working on the M and I doubt that MLC will hit her again because she's already begun the process of reintegrating herself. That is crucial as a signpost that she's shedding her MLC snakeskin (or in your case...shark eyes).


Last edited by Wonka; 08/25/15 08:37 PM.
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Cali, this is a bit unrelated to the helpful posts above, but I thought of you today when I was driving home from work. I've been reading some Hearts Blessing stuff lately and one of the things she talked about was being adept at moving easily between attachment and detachment.

When attached, she was working together with her H to rebuild things, but she developed the ability to detach instantaneously (internally) as and when needed. And from what she said she flipped back and forth quite a bit, which helped weather the inevitable ups and downs of reconciling.....just thought I would post it as I thought of your sitch and of what she wrote and thought it might be useful.

Take care xx


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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Wonka ... thank you so much for your insight here.

The FOO thing has been something as of late, she really perks up and its been a very solid topic for us these past few months ... sharing things that we never knew about each other ...little by little bubbling to the surface.

As you said, I may never know, ... she may never know what set this all into motion, it is strange that we too bought a house, had some serious issues about that time ... inside a 3 year span, bought a house, went on our late honeymoon (5 years after M), miscarried a child, birth to S, she lost her job of 13 years all in that span ... was enough for just one of these things to trigger MLC let alone all of them one after the other.

I do not have that 'deep fear' ... its hard to fear something like that, again out of my hands. Would I stand for another round ... boy.. tougher question and one I hope to never answer.

W is really working on the M, I see it .. even more I feel it. Its a slow process but I see her smile, actually truly smile ... the weight is lifting, and there is a renewed hope for the future... we are figuring things out .. issues of M1.0, mistakes we made .. most of all we are talking through them ... not just getting upset, yelling and blowing off steam and leaving these things laying around, but actually talking about how each one FEELS about whatever it is going on.

This is what AJ touched on .. re-tooling .. dare I say being adults about it and actually refusing to let the kids indside us wreck the new car.

Anyway Thank you again for sharing your valuable perspective from the MLC shoes ... I can not tell you how valuable you are not only to me, but to this forum.


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Originally Posted By: Sotto
Cali, this is a bit unrelated to the helpful posts above, but I thought of you today when I was driving home from work. I've been reading some Hearts Blessing stuff lately and one of the things she talked about was being adept at moving easily between attachment and detachment.

When attached, she was working together with her H to rebuild things, but she developed the ability to detach instantaneously (internally) as and when needed. And from what she said she flipped back and forth quite a bit, which helped weather the inevitable ups and downs of reconciling.....just thought I would post it as I thought of your sitch and of what she wrote and thought it might be useful.

Take care xx


Sotto

I am familiar with HB ... and yeah .. there is alot of truth to that and I do catch myself flipping that 'on/off' switch often. Its really to me more of the Push-Pull dance. I have to detach .. give her space and let her do her thing, then she comes back hard ... alot like during the crisis .. she did the same thing but the throws were longer and tool longer for the return trip if that makes any sense.

Trick is ... not detaching out of punishment, just with a shrug and that faith knowing she will come back. Its definitely a delicate dance, not to push to much, but nudge here and there, keeping the boundaries up without the walls, being open for the hug while protecting your tiwg n berries.

Anyways .. I crack myself up ... but yeah you are spot on with that advice ... thank you!


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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
I have to detach .. give her space and let her do her thing, then she comes back hard ... alot like during the crisis .. she did the same thing but the throws were longer and tool longer for the return trip if that makes any sense.


If she has re-committed to the Marriage, then I am not sure that detaching, has anything to do with where you want to be...

Are you sure that you mean...detach ???

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Luke, its a hard road to walk, yea? Sometimes you feel you know exactly where you are, other times you feel a little lost.

They are pushing you on here right now for a reason.

The thing is that I get the fear and the walls and all the other stuff. I do. It isn't easy putting all of that to rest.

But sometimes we get so hung up on where and how we think things should be that we forget to just live, ya know?

We have new tools and new ways of getting through stuff so sometimes we just have to take a leap of faith and see where we land.

I cant tell you if she is fully committed or not. I don't even know what that would look like, to be honest. I would imagine it would mean a commitment to do better, an honest apology for the past, a willingness to work together towards a common goal, a rebuilding of trust and open communication.

What does fully committed mean to you? I think when one is in a situation like yours, there can be some small part that wants the spouse to beg for forgiveness and profess their undying love over and over.

It doesn't happen that way...nor should it. You want to allow it to unfold slowly, with both of you having realizations of what you want and how you got here. You want it to be a gradual rebuilding of a foundation so that it's strong.

That all takes time and patience and most of all...love. Really, at the end of the day, that's the bottom line. This is someone you love and who loves you.

Maybe it isn't happening in the exact way you had hoped. Maybe it is almost anticlimactic in some ways.

My friend, don't worry so much about the push/pull dance and all of that other stuff all the time.

And don't be afraid to open yourself up to the possibilities...and just live. smile

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Cali, cheesy as this may sound, you're my inspiration for continuing my journey. I have absolute faith that you'll handle this well, as you have handled everything else well.

Keep on plugging away, sir. I look forward to more inspiration.


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Wow, your thread has quite the running legs, Cali! Lots of good information here, plus you yourself are quite good with words and story telling.

Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
We openly talked, much like Friday about intimacy and ... dare I say it .. sex. I confessed ... as much as I am a man and have needs, I am not ready. I know I am not ...


Have you made any moves? Has she? I wouldn’t wait too long, here’s why… That physical connection will make most of the other stuff you're still agonizing over seem so much smaller and easier to deal with.

I’m not talking about all night romps here… you have to start slow. But you have to start somewhere, and I guarantee that it will give you wings!

You've been taking charge/leading in other area's and she's been liking that.

Just something to think about.



Last edited by ForeverYoung; 08/27/15 02:41 PM.

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Originally Posted By: uRworthy
Luke, its a hard road to walk, yea? Sometimes you feel you know exactly where you are, other times you feel a little lost.

uR .. you are the Oracle ... its excatly how it feels, during the heavy part of the crisis it was just easier to shrug the shoulders and do my own thing ... a bit tougher navigating the changing tides in this river.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy

They are pushing you on here right now for a reason.

The thing is that I get the fear and the walls and all the other stuff. I do. It isn't easy putting all of that to rest.

But sometimes we get so hung up on where and how we think things should be that we forget to just live, ya know?

We have new tools and new ways of getting through stuff so sometimes we just have to take a leap of faith and see where we land.

Yeah I have arrived at that same concept ... making more out of it than it needs to be, analyzing as I do .. realizing it is what it is, worry about me and stay upright. Accept the ups and downs and just keep moving forward as best I can.

Originally Posted By: uRworthy

I cant tell you if she is fully committed or not. I don't even know what that would look like, to be honest. I would imagine it would mean a commitment to do better, an honest apology for the past, a willingness to work together towards a common
What does fully committed mean to you? I think when one is in a situation like yours, there can be some small part that wants the spouse to beg for forgiveness and profess their undying love over and over.

It doesn't happen that way...nor should it. You want to allow it to unfold slowly, with both of you having realizations of what you want and how you got here. You want it to be a gradual rebuilding of a foundation so that it's strong.
we land.


Well she pretty much has done that, the apologizing thing. Like we had hit on 'Forgiveness' Some time ago on one of my threads ... its not like you need someone to ask for it to give it, but I will admit it helps.
I read in a book recently its one thing to forgive, but there is that deep seeded self preservation in a betrayed spouse of "I will never be made a fool of again" .... I admit there is some of that, but I quickly realized that was fueling fear .... I could not stop the A, that was her choice, just as if she chose to have another A, again nothing I can do there so why waste energy on that ... which I have stopped, along with that so went the urge to snoop. Even last night she was talking to someone on the phone in the bedroom as I was putting things away in the kitchen, she was not hiding her voice nor being sneaky and I laughed to myself realizing my % of "Who is that" was in single digits .... again those things I was never like before A and OM, and slowly I am coming back to that place.

Originally Posted By: uRworthy

That all takes time and patience and most of all...love. Really, at the end of the day, that's the bottom line. This is someone you love and who loves you.

Maybe it isn't happening in the exact way you had hoped. Maybe it is almost anticlimactic in some ways.

My friend, don't worry so much about the push/pull dance and all of that other stuff all the time.

And don't be afraid to open yourself up to the possibilities...and just live. smile


I think its easy to over think this, overreact, push an issue that easily does not need to be pushed. Its a very challenging thing to not have the urge to 'punish' ... or to bring up things that do need to be addressed, but knowing now is not the time has proved to be golden, for me taking a walk or a run .. giving myself time to just 'be' has helped ... its harder to knock myself off center but conversely when I am off, its harder to get back... I do feel I am there at the moment but I do accept there will be things/times I will need to right myself.


M: 48
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M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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