My lizard and her tunnel ...

[AJM]

I do NOT want her to return under these circumstances. I feel like I can survive one of these, I don't want to return to the status quo and wait for another bomb to drop. She needs to finish her journey.

Late, I read your posts. I get it. I've been there. I made the mistake of allowing/encouraging her to come back too soon. I hope you don't do same. It really is that painful for all concerned.

She should come back for the right reasons - i.e. she wants to be there, not because she is out of options. Otherwise, it's temporary until you both do the work. Seriously.

Looking at your posts, I think you know that. I think you also have a good head on your shoulders and realize that this is not a quick hit item and takes time. Lots of time.

I have no regrets, but if I had it to do over again, I would have picked the other road where she didn't come back so soon. She wasn't done. Still doesn't seem to be all these years later. Maybe she just doesn't have the tools, but that's how it seems.

Focus on yourself and the family. Evaluate her for her maturity and use of tools. Evaluate yourself as well. If she comes back too soon, it won't end well. And don't be fooled - they can be very persuasive. Very

Take your time and take the space to learn about you and make the tools you need to be better. It's hard when the momentum swings back and forth, but it's worth taking the time.

The spew is a good indicator of where she is currently. Blaming you for her actions is a good sign that you BOTH need to work on some things before she returns.

Have I said it enough times??

Things don't have to end this way, but they do need to be repaired. By both of you and for the right reasons. The alternative is not pleasant...

AJ

[late30s]

AJM, first I love the name. Happens to be my initials.

Thanks for the input. I admire and respect your opinion. You've nailed one of my biggest fears. I like to believe that I will remain rational enough to say that returning isn't an option at this point, but I can't say that for certain.

I'm still working on removing buttons she has access to. I thought I had nabbed all of them, but she found one and I'm not so sure it was intentional. A couple of weeks ago she said that her kids were the most important people in her life. I scoffed at this. I feel like her actions have told a different story.

This leaves a big button for me. I don't think it's right, I'm certainly in no position to tell her who ranks where in HER life, but somewhere in my twisted brain it bothers me quite a bit. Since I discovered the button I have been working on removing it.

I believe I have made a lot of progress since she left, but I feel that I still need to make more. I still have trouble detaching. Not that I stumble all the time, but it is a constant, daily battle for me.

As far as things ending, I am currently resolved to the long haul. I find myself becoming stronger. The gaping wound in my chest doesn't hurt as badly. Things are becoming clearer. I'm not spinning as often. For the time being, I am attempting the kill them with kindness approach. Mostly because that's a big part of who I am. Not just in dealing with her, in dealing with everyone in my life. My coworkers are amazed at my patience and kindness. I get complimented on it all the time. I feel like I have an unfair advantage when it comes to the patience part of it. After dealing with W and her spew, everyone else is a walk in the park.

Keeping my kind nature is very important to ME. I struggle with that and being firm at the same time. I am starting to find ways to keep my kindness while protecting myself. The validation cheat sheet has helped me a lot in this regard. Opened my mind to different ways of approaching problems that allow me to stay away from the cynicism.

I have a question for you, AJM. I would like to read your sitch from beginning to end. Is it still available? If so, do you have a link or links? I have read all of Caliguy's sitch and you were a bastion of wisdom there. I learned a lot reading it. I'm sure you also have plenty to teach.

[AJM]

Not sure how helpful it may be, but the earliest I see is http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...235#Post1731235
May have to clean that up a little and cut and paste...

I've been around longer, but may have lost some of that muck in the purges. Just as well in most respects

Being kind to somebody who outwardly hates you? That's an excellent approach. I know for me, I took the "she'll have to club me like a baby seal" approach. I'm extremely glad I did.

There was really nothing she could do to hurt me beyond what she did. I knew that. She wasn't going to take my kids (she wanted to, but not because of the kids; more because it made her fell "right" and to punish me for some reason).

I knew she was in no position to take the house. I knew I could have decimated her in front of her family, co-workers, etc.

I chose not to. I chose instead to repay with kindness. I knew exactly what I was doing when I did that.

I'm happy to say I'm happy I chose that path even though sometimes I didn't want to.

You can become bitter or better from this. Not really any other outcomes that I've seen.

AJ

[late30s]

May I ask how you would define the "she'll have to club me like a baby seal" approach?

I agree with your last statement. I don't want to become bitter about anything.

Thanks for the response, AJM.

[late30s]

Systems engineer, cool. So you got my lame binary joke and have probably heard it many times before. :p It looks like you were right about my age when it all came crashing down. How old was she?

And don't like writing code?! That's the best part of the IT industry!

[AJM]

"There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who get binary and those who don't"

I've always thought that should read "There are 01 types of.." but that's just me

May I ask how you would define the "she'll have to club me like a baby seal" approach?

My approach was to take the high road. To not reciprocate her efforts to fight. I'm a former active duty US Marine. I am perfectly fine fighting and sometimes even enjoy it if the truth were known. But for me there has to be a reason when it comes to something important to me.

I used to joke after a hard day that at least I go home to a wife that loves me. Hehe. Didn't see that coming. Why? Because it was either very sudden (melt-down) or very well hidden. Or I just didn't want to see it. Maybe even a combination of those.

Anyway, my ex tried incredibly hard to pick fights and "attack" me. My character. My parenting. My family of origin. My skin color, hair.. you get the idea. She was desperate to find fault even if she needed to make it up. Not uncommon in these situations, I later learned. And it makes sense to me that somebody who wants or needs to get away from somebody they loved, needs to view that person as "evil or bad" or whatever undesirable moniker you can impose. It helps to ease the guilt and pain. No two ways about it from what I've seen with people.

My ex left the first time on Mother's day saying I was a horrible parent. She left me with two small kids with a big smile on her face. I let her come back six months later, but that wasn't such a great idea in hind-sight.

She tried to get me to hit her, to get her love interests to pick a fight with me, to make me angry and move out of my house, to impose guilt on me, etc.

My approach started with day three after BD. I decided I would put the kids first, her second and me third (God always gets slot 0 in my life; it's how I roll ) With that in mind, I figured my biggest risk was losing my kids, followed by losing my house and losing my wife. She took about 2 years to develop the story of what a horrible and violent parent I was. She had many stories prior to that, even making them up in front of the therapist the few times she went. She couldn't keep a story straight and all of them were aimed at making me the "bad" guy. I don't particularly care about the house, but she would have happily used me fighting back to say, "see! I told you he was violent. I should have the kids and house and his money etc!" Truth is, I think at the time she only wanted the house and money though.
But I wasn't willing to let her have the kids as sole parent. She had told me along the way, she wanted to date people two at a time and bring them into the house etc. I was not happy with that, but told her she could not bring them into my house and if that's the life she wanted to go. But you can't take the kids. Why? I wouldn't subject a 10 and 13 year old to that if I could help it.

So long story longer, I decided that the best way to fight fire was to snuff it out. Twice I didn't do very well with that approach and was goaded into some fights. Twice over 2.5 years. Once via text (uggh).

Took the high road the entire time. I let her take what she wanted from the house when she left (except the dining room table - that room would be empty without it and make the house hard to sell.) At one point I even agreed to sell the house and split it with her. That was during the downturn and luckily it didn't sell. After a year, I put a stop to it and made an offer she took. I didn't fight the sep agreement except to add clarity and take a few items off her lawyer put in that would be detrimental to the kids or would extend beyond their reaching adulthood. When she wouldn't give my son or daughter a ride to drop them at my house for visitation days (50/50 custody; she moved in three blocks away but sometimes it rains) I went and picked up the kids. When her husband tries to accuse me of who knows what, I pretty much let him. Except once - I really wanted to punch him in the throat for his comments about my kids, but figured it would end with him in jail/hospital and me in jail with the kids going to the ex. I didn't think that would be good for the kids.

Very Jerry Springer like if step back. And I often stepped back. Very often. To the point that my blood pressure was rising and my sleep and job were impacted. Did I mention the son's healthcare? He was taking very expensive meds that the insurance company didn't want to cover during all of this.

I took up running and it helped immensely. I got more involved in my church and helping other people. I worked on me and the items I didn't like about me. The ideas and accusations she threw at me - some of them stung a little. So I worked on them. They didn't take too long to change the things I didn't like about me. It also didn't take long to realize that people are people - take 'em or leave 'em. Nor did it take long for my ex to say "I never said that" or "I hope you end up alone" or.. <shrug> there are others, but who really cares, right? I'm the only one (and email) that will remember at this point

That help?

AJ

[late30s]

Yes, it makes sense. Thanks, AJ.

[late30s]

Journal:

W and I had a long discussion tonight. Told her that I can no longer be in her life so long as OM is in her life. Profusely apologized for my hand in the death of our marriage. I thanked her for all the wonderful memories she's given me.

It hurts. It hurts so bad. Lord give me the strength to get through this.

[late30s]

I feel like this is the right direction for me, it is difficult not to reach out to her. This feels like the death knell for my marriage.

Some good things about this.

I no longer have to be around her and fake anything. That was becoming too painful for me.

The pain has already subsided quite a bit from last night. I expect more improvement.

No longer in limbo. As of right now I am moving forward.

When we spoke last she told me that she has never stopped loving me, that she still misses me terribly and she needs to take some time to find herself.

She also told me that she didn't want to get my hopes but she feels like this is right road to recovery for us.

Those last two statement from her surprised me and they were nice to hear, but I don't know how much, if any, I believe of them.

I'd appreciate some input -- some support. It's rough today.

[CaliGuy]

late

Dealing with this stuff can be very frustrating. There are little moments here and there where the WAS can sense us pulling away so they drop a line or two like you described just to keep us where they left us. Read enough and you notice when we move this really bugs em to no end. She might have just been temp checking ... maybe she actually meant those words but knows she needs to 'do this' in order to figure things and herself out.

I 'dropped rope' a couple times in my sitch ... did my thing and was not paying attention and realized somehow that rope ended up in my hands again ... might have been something she did, my fear of really letting go, just the fact I held it for 24 years .. its a tough thing to do ... alot like detaching , I never really am sure I did it 100% .... I will say about this time last year I was at 90% though.

I would just say ... do not do it to get a reaction, do it for you .... if you need a break, go do your thing .... I suspect like me .. nothing you are doing now will really change regardless if you are holding onto that rope or not .... use this to detach a bit more, worry about yourself for a bit and let her figure her stuff out..... watch out for the tests because I would bet they are coming