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BEClem #2592923 07/30/15 09:48 PM
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BE,

Hope it's not War and Peace. grin

Wonka #2592930 07/30/15 09:58 PM
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Oh Wonka LOL It won't be quite that long. But it is going to be long. I apologize in advance. It has been a very eventful and detailed four days.

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Ok. This is going to be long everyone so I'll do it in a readable and timeline type fashion.

Last Week:

I had been way backed off and light and breezy. No R talk for several weeks. Wife had started showing signs of positive movement.

She informed me of a trip she had planned to take the kids to see her mom and dad from last Thursday to this Tuesday. So last Monday, I spent $300 to get some brake work done on her vehicle so it was safe for the trip.

She asked me to take care of the dog and cats at our house while she was away. We agreed upon me staying at our house while they were on the trip because with my work schedule it would be easiest.

They leave for the trip on Thursday. We have some positive and light text message exchanges on Friday and Saturday and Sunday.

I had a suspicion, that turned out to be wrong, that her "friend" may have gone with them on the trip. He lives right by where I work. So I did (probably not a good idea) drive by his house on Sunday morning and evening to see if his car was there. Apparently he got a new car because I didn't see his truck but here is what happened:

Monday

I call wife in the evening just to see what time they will be coming home on Tuesday. She is very cold, distant, alot of "uh huh's" and one word answers on the phone. I ask if something is wrong. She says no. I press a little bit and then it comes out:

"Why did you drive by "friends" house on Sunday morning and night. He saw you and says if you drive by his house again he will call the police".

I'm not sure what to say at this point. She presses and asks if I am going to answer her. I calmly say that if she wishes to have an open an honest conversation about Mr. "Friend" that we can do so but it would have to be a two way conversation.

She presses for me to answer. I tell her that the reason I drove by was to see if his car was there because I wanted to know if he had gone on the trip with them.

I then confront her about some of the half truths and lies she has been telling me about him. All the time they spend together with our kids etc.

She ends up saying that "It doesn't matter because I filed for divorce before I left. It has nothing to do with "friend". There is nothing going on there. I don't like you. I'm not attracted to you. I don't love you. I don't want to be married to you any more".

This conversation carries on for a bit in this fashion. I switch gears and ask if she is going through with the divorce what does she think that looks like. She says pretty much the same as it looks now. Says her lawyer has an agreement that I will be receiving and I can choose to sign it or not. If I don't agree on certain points she will "make it ugly". I ask what she means.

She says that the agreement states that she wants joint legal custody but that the kids will live with her (full custodial custody). She wants $350 per week in child support (which is about half of what I make) but is "asking for no alimony". That I can see the kids whenever I want but when I ask her if she plans on getting a job she says "of course. I can't live on $1400 per month (which is what she will be expecting me to live on) and says she will work at night when I am with the kids".

So I say that she is expecting to take half of my earnings, continue to be a full time stay at home mom and when she says I can see the kids whenever I want that really means to babysit them while she only works a part time job".

Now I have a lawyer and have been educated on how all of this will work and that is NOT what things will look like. So I challenge her on it. This is where she goes into specifics at to what she will "get ugly on".

She says that if I don't agree to the $350 per week in child support and try to go for 50/50 legal and physical custody that she will bring up the following that attacks my family members (people who have treated her like nothing but a daughter and sister even through all of this):

-She will disclose that I live with my parents in a home that is being foreclosed upon and that I live with a registered sex offender (my brother who got in trouble when he was 23 with a 17 year old - not a child molester)

-That she will use my "extensive mental illness history (meaning the depression I went through. I am not mentally ill).

-That the home we live in (which is my sister's) is set to go into foreclosure.

-That I am 95% finished with my Master's Degree but can't find a good job.

At this point I am beside myself. I can't believe what I just heard. The conversation continues for a bit and it ends. My mother was kind enough to drive over to my house and spend some time with me. I disclose to her what was said and it brought my mother to tears.

Tuesday:

I hardly sleep Monday night. Make sure I leave my house before her and the kids get home from their trip and go back to my parents.

Talk to my Lawyer. Disclose to my family the things my Wife said. My sister, who has always been neutral, becomes livid that my wife would stoop so low as to throw mud onto people who have loved her for almost 15 years: especially my parents.

Tuesday evening I have a phone conversation with my Wife. I admit that I did try to convince her not to do this. To give ourselves a chance before making such a life altering decision. This was fruitless as I knew it would be.

So we switch the conversation to the divorce agreement. She tries to play it like she doesn't want to screw me over. I make it clear that she is. When I bring up all of the things she said about my family she actually says that "I never said anything about your parents or your sister. Only your brother".

When I repeat back to her word for word what she had said she would use to play dirty she said "the foreclosures have nothing to do with your parents and sister personally". My response: "Are you serious?"

They are clearly personal attacks and for her to not see it that way is beyond comprehension. And my parents and sister most certainly took them as personal attacks.

The conversation ends.

Wednesday:

As predicted by me, she texts me to see if I want to spend the afternoon with the kids from 3-8, during which time my son had a swim lesson. I knew this text was coming because on her calendar in the house she had her "girls night" scheduled.

At this point I am still very much upset and don't want my kids to see me this way. I call her and explain that I am trying to protect them from this and would rather not. I also ask her if she had plans. She says that her plans were cancelled but that all of her friend's were going to a fair. We hang up.

A few hours pass and I am feeling a little more composed so I decide I want to take my son to his lesson. I call her about and hour and a half before his lesson to tell her that I was feeling better and wanted to take him. Her immediate reaction is "Just him and not D2?" "You haven't seen them in a week"

I say that I know I haven't seen them in a week but that is because she took them away, which is fine, but I figured I could take my son to his lesson and spend some quality father son time. If she wanted me to take our daughter as well than I would and would bring them back home afterward.

She is upset throughout the entire conversation. I ask "what is the problem? This is not a big deal"

She rants about how I said I didn't want to see them and now I am calling and saying I do and how it is "confusing" to her.

I say that I did not say I didn't want to see them and that the context matters. I had said that I was very emotional earlier in the day and didn't want them to see me like that.

She says fine. Son will be ready at 5 and just hangs up.

I go to pick up son. Daughter decides she wants to stay home with mom so that took care of the bringing them both "issue".

Before lesson son tells me how they say mom's "friend" before they had left for their camping trip and that he would be going with them next time for mom's birthday. I let it slide.

Son has great lesson. I drive him home. When we get home, son asks me before we get into the house if I can stay until he goes to bed. I tell him "you have to ask mom."

We get inside and son asks if dad can stay. She says no. He presses. She says no. He presses again. She says "fine, dad can make you dinner". I ask her if there are any bills that need to be paid. She says yes. I ask her to give them to me and I'll take care of them. She shows them to me and says they are in her name and would prefer to pay them herself so she knows they will get paid and gets pissed. She storms off upstairs.

Wife comes storming back downstairs and says to me very rudely "you can stay until 7 and then I want you to leave". Then she storms into the laundry room. I follow her and tell her that I'm not going to stay and that it is fine. She storms away from me and goes back upstairs.

I had no intention of staying so as not to not create turmoil. I tell my son I can't stay and call my daughter from upstairs to say hi and bye.

I call to my wife and ask her to come to the stairs so I can tell her about son's upcoming swim schedule. After that I say "so I'll call you tomorrow and we can talk?" (because the night prior we had agreed to talk about the possibility of trying. Or at least that is what I thought. Stupid me).

She storms back upstairs and says "No, I am not interested in talking to you".

So now I'm like "wait a minute". I go upstairs and into the bedroom. Mind you I am calm the entire time. I say to her that I thought we were going to talk tomorrow and what has changed? She begins a rant, so I close the bedroom door so the kids don't see and hear.

She starts going off about how "Daddy ignores us for 3 years (an angry reference to my depression) and now he is Mr. Fun". I say "maybe I am actually not depressed any more, as I have been telling you for months now and I'm just being myself".

Then she says "son kept asking for you to stay and even though I said no you sat there with your thumb up your a$$ and said nothing so I have to be the bad guy again". So I throw truth darts at her and say "wait a minute. For nine months every single time, and it has been always, when the kids have asked for me to stay or to go and do something with you guys I have ALWAYS told them I can't our of respect for you. So that is an untrue statement".

Then she goes off on me and says "why are you cutting me off financially". I say "what are you talking about?" She says "why are you now suddenly asking to take the bills and pay them yourself like I am incapable of paying them". I tell her that I never have and am not now cutting her off financially but that if she is deciding she wants a divorce than there are some things that are going to give and change. That I am no longer going to just come and give her every dime I make. That I will ensure the bills are paid, as I always have, but that I need to start thinking about the future for the kids and myself. I tell her that we need to sit down and discuss a budget. That the small amount (about $100 per week) that she makes from babysitting our niece needs to start going into the pot to help pay bills. She argues that "it always has". Which I personally do not believe.

She then starts ranting and telling me to leave. Then she says to me "what did you say to your sister? She won't talk to me". I tell her that I simply informed my family members of the threats she had made about "playing ugly" that involved them. She goes off and says that what she said had nothing to do with them (which is ridiculous) and says "thank you for destroying my friendship with your sister".

Now the conversation moves downstairs and the kids are witnessing all of this. I tell her that I did no such thing as "destroy her friendship with my sister" and that my family members deserved to know what was said about them and they do take it personally. That I have never once badmouthed her to anyone during any of this and my family has treated her with nothing but love even throughout all of this.

I threw more truth darts at her and told her that this is typical of her. She does something that has consequences and then turns it around and blames it on me. I told her that anyone who is close to our situation that I have spoken to about it that I have ALWAYS told the full story which includes MY OWN ROLE IN IT. My depression. My withdrawal. My brief slip up with another woman. Because I OWN IT and am accountable for it.

I then tell her that she, on the other hand, takes no responsibility for anything. I tell her how I have been shunned by her friends who have known me for almost 15 years. How her mother ignored me the last time I saw her etc. I said that obviously she has shared one side of the story with these people because the perception they have is that BEC caused all of this.

Then she gets really mad. "get out. get out." I'm trying to keep calm. To keep her calm. She finally says "fine if you aren't leaving I will" and starts to gather up the kids' things. I say "wait a minute. I'm leaving. I had no intention of staying. What are you going to do? Just uproot the children? Well that is not right for them. And I am not going to do that to them." I told her that she knows that I am a nice guy and I would never do that to them. And that in my opinion she has taken advantage of me being a nice guy.

She angrily says "get out". At this point we are at the front door. I go to leave and my son and daughter (they are little: S6 and D2) are right there and are visibly upset. The go to go after me. "Dad wait" etc. I hug them and walk outside. My son goes to go after me again. At this point I am on the porch and he is inside the storm door. My wife grabs his arm and pulls him inside. I say to her through the storm door "don't you do that to him".

She slams the main door and locks it.

I start to leave and then go back. Not to speak to her but to say a proper goodbye to the children. I go to the window and ask my son to tell mom to open the door, not for me to speak to her but so I could say goodbye to him and his sister.

She opens the door and is standing there staring at me as if I am Lucifer. My wonderful little people hug me. I can see the upset expressions on their faces. On the verge of tears. I tell them that it's ok and that I love them very much.

It was the type of hug where I had both of them. D2 on my left and S6 on my right. It was a very long hug. As if they did not want to let go.

Thursday

Wife texts me to see, again. if I want the kids from 3-8. This has been her typical pattern during the sep. I come watch the kids and she goes out and has her social life. I'm done with that.

I call her. We talk about that. She makes a huge deal blah blah blah.

I tell her that things need to change. That I want to see the kids everyday but it needs to be on my terms too. Not so she can go do her thing. I'm done providing her the time and funds for that.

Then we get into us talk and I was told the most hurtful things I have ever been told.

I've shared in the past here how my W was sexually abused as a child and how emotional and physical intimacy have always been an issue.

Well today, I was told by her that she recently figured out that:

-She had come to terms with what had happened to her a long time ago and it was me who made it into an issue. That she wasn't a fragile bird that needed saving.

-That she had never had panic attacks during sex with anyone else. Only with me.

-That all those times she said she didn't like sex. It was that she didn't like it with me.

-That we never should have gotten married. We were too young.

-That she never felt a spark for me and that is why she had sexual and emotional closeness issues with me. Not because of her childhood experiences.

-That she is ONLY closed off to me.

Of course she never said any of these things to me EVER 8 or 10 or 12 years ago. She just "figured all of this out recently".

So that has been my week so far. I'm ready for the expert analysis from the peanut gallery smile

BEClem #2592989 07/31/15 12:26 AM
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Alright, BE. Here are some thoughts. Im not going to bash.....just thinking out loud for the future.


Originally Posted By: BEClem

I had a suspicion, that turned out to be wrong, that her "friend" may have gone with them on the trip. He lives right by where I work. So I did (probably not a good idea) drive by his house on Sunday morning and evening to see if his car was there. Apparently he got a new car because I didn't see his truck but here is what happened.

Im sure by now, you know this was a terrible idea. What did you hope to gain by going there? What would you have learned if his truck was there? What would you have learned if it wasnt there? Would any of the things you would have learned changed anything?

Not only did you drive there, but you did it TWICE? And Im guessing you didnt just drive by a random house in a subdivision somewhere if he NOTICED that you were cruising by. Youre better than this, man.


Originally Posted By: BEClem

This was fruitless as I knew it would be.

In general, I find that if you already know the answer, theres no point in asking the WAW the question. ESPECIALLY if it is related to R talks. All that making her say it does is hurt you.

Originally Posted By: BEClem

When we get home, son asks me before we get into the house if I can stay until he goes to bed. I tell him "you have to ask mom."

I follow her and tell her that I'm not going to stay and that it is fine.

I had no intention of staying so as not to not create turmoil. I tell my son I can't stay and call my daughter from upstairs to say hi and bye.

You already knew things were in a rough position between you and W. You know she isnt going to want you there. Why would you have your S put your W in the terrible position of having to break his heart or to allow you to stay? The entire episode could have been avoided if you just said you were busy.

Originally Posted By: BEClem
After that I say "so I'll call you tomorrow and we can talk?" (because the night prior we had agreed to talk about the possibility of trying. Or at least that is what I thought. Stupid me).

Wait, what? One of the biggest things that I took away from DR was about timing. If theres something that you want, you cant ask for it at a time when your spouse is going to say no. I used to ask my W to do the dishes as I was walking out the door and she was going back to bed in the morning. Of course she never did them! What did you REALLY think she was going to say at this moment? You already had her in a corner with the dinner thing. Timing, you know?

Originally Posted By: BEClem

I threw more truth darts at her and told her that this is typical of her. She does something that has consequences and then turns it around and blames it on me. I told her that anyone who is close to our situation that I have spoken to about it that I have ALWAYS told the full story which includes MY OWN ROLE IN IT. My depression. My withdrawal. My brief slip up with another woman. Because I OWN IT and am accountable for it.

I then tell her that she, on the other hand, takes no responsibility for anything. I tell her how I have been shunned by her friends who have known me for almost 15 years. How her mother ignored me the last time I saw her etc. I said that obviously she has shared one side of the story with these people because the perception they have is that BEC caused all of this.

Im not sure that these are "truth darts", BEC. It sounds a lot like you are blaming her for this. A wise person once told me that no matter how flat you make it, a pancake always has two sides. I think this is your problem here. You just CANT tell the whole story, because you dont KNOW her side. So while you think you are being fair, its still not a complete story. Just because you may not AGREE with her side of the story does not make it any less valid.


The rest of it [censored]. I wouldnt take too much stock in it though. She wanted to hurt you and knows how, so thats what she said.



In my opinion (which I know counts for nothing), a lot of this came on, because you couldnt leave well enough alone. A lot of your posting up there is how W did something and you reacted by keeping things going. Following her, calling her....trying to prove to her that you are right and she is not. As another wise person said, "do you want to be right or do you want to be married?"

BEClem #2593096 07/31/15 11:32 AM
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BEC,
Stop talking to your wife about the relationship! She says she's filed, then you know what you need to do. Do not share any info that you receive from your lawyer about what will happen. She will find that out when the negotiations begin.

Evidently she is wearing rose colored glasses if she thinks that things will remain the same, i.e., scheduling fun time for herself and ringing you up to do the babysitting. That's not how custody works. Schedules are usually set and you and she will need to adhere to them unless agreements can be met. You are not an after thought, nor the babysitter when she wants to go out.

About the money, she'll need to get a full time position. You will need to ask your lawyer about her comment that you could take care of the kids at night when she works. That may affect the child support. Also, your child support will be based on what is allowable for your state, not by what she wants.

As for the mud slinging, your family should not be brought into it, i.e., foreclosures, etc. That's not your problem. In fact, if the home she's living in is in foreclosure, she needs to worry about that. Now, about your brother, that may be an issue and if he's not suppose to be around children, then you will need to make sure that the children are not around him. I know you stated he was a registered sex offender, but still this is some cause for concern for the legal arena and possible custody arrangements.

As for the drive bys, you've got to cut that stuff out! I don't know how many times we've told you to leave things alone and yet, you continue to do them. I can't believe you drove by there twice and yes, it was very obvious. You've pushed and pushed and now she's filing for divorce, or so she says. Stop all discussions w/her except about the children's activities, when to visit and paying the bills. Leave everything else at the door because you are digging your hole deeper each and every time you speak to her.

This entire issue should be between you and your wife. Divorce is business and quite frankly, neither of you married your in-laws. Leave them out of the equation. As for the interactions between your wife and sister...well, they've gone down the tubes and I wouldn't be surprised if your sister asks her to move out if things continue the way they are.

Again, do not discuss any info you receive from your lawyer w/her. Don't try to tell her what life will be like. She will need to learn that on her own and whatever you do, don't agree to anything she puts in front of you w/o your lawyer reviewing it and that includes money, visitation, etc.

Live your life for YOU and your children. Leave your wife to wallow in her own mess.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2593099 07/31/15 11:52 AM
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BEC,
I also want to point out that your wife knows you very well and knows exactly what buttons to push. She's played you very well and who knows, she and her male friend may have made it a point to set you up to see if you would drive by his house while she was gone. You can't trust them to do the right things when they are irrational. Notice how you've been told that he will be joining them the next time they are out of town? They knew it would get back to you and you would go nutty once again.

Step back, leave them to their madness and above all else, detach even further. The more you react to what they say and do, the more you are become your own worse enemy. Get off the crazy train now before it's too late.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2593130 07/31/15 03:03 PM
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BE

I read your update last night on my phone. Given the fact I was blessed with caveman hands, and technology prefers people with fingers as opposed to all thumbs its impossible for me to really send out much of a reply/support.

I will not quote your novel and dissect it line by line ... job as always is a very wise and knowledgeable member here ... read and re-read what she says.

Here is the thing BE, you are an emotional guy ... this has done a number on you... I get it and I can relate. I do not need to point out the ways you have mishandled this... you know that, heck you knew but still could not help yourself. Just like a wayward .... wathcing the LBH around here for the past year I feel they have to hit rock bottom as well ... I do hope you are there and will start to do the little things that will help your situation out.

BE, you can not save your M ... you never could solo .. you need 2 people for that right? What you CAN do is stop making it worse, you can do that right now today. Just try to focus on not making anymore damage. Then we can focus on beginning to create some positive interactions, making small improvements. You have a long hard road ahead of you if you want a shot at this my friend ... you have to begin to actually do the work .. limit the backslides.

Hang in there ... its tough I know.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



CaliGuy #2593146 07/31/15 04:02 PM
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BE - my one thought when I first started reading your report was, "Please don't let him have driven to OM's house."

Basics BE, basics. The vets have been hammering this into you since day 1. You told Wonka the student was ready to learn. I'm not going to beat you up either, but you've got to take yourself back to DB kindergarten and hit the basics.

Breathe, detach, start taking care of you and disentangle yourself from the drama your W is masterfully manipulating you into. She's a tornado. You're walking right into her. How about standing on the side and letting her do what she's going to do and you doing what you need to do?!

Start listening to these Vets BE, they are vets for a reason. They know more than we do, that's why we're here. That's why we ask them for their counsel and advice. But if we ignore them they aren't going to want to keep telling us the same thing over and over, they'll help those who will accept the help.

Get strong. Get focused. Get yourself in the fight by stepping out of the fight BE. I know this is hard as hell, it is for every single one of us. It doesn't mean we have to wear long sleeves and stoke the flames while we're in it though.

Thinking of you and sending you strength.

PP


M 39 W 36
T5 M3
BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day
Served 9/15
D finalized 6/17
PigPen #2593389 08/01/15 01:06 PM
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Thank you everyone for reading my "War and Peace" novel (Wonka wink ) and for your insight and compassion.

I realize all of the mistakes I made during these interactions but it was so hard to not get caught up in the emotion of it all.

I did my best but obviously could have done better.


Last edited by BEClem; 08/01/15 01:08 PM.
BEClem #2593392 08/01/15 01:21 PM
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I feel bad for you, but even more for the children. frown They should not witness your arguments, it doesn't matter if you are calm, this is adult talk and should happen away from them, if at all. If she places herself near them, you need to stop the argument.

Why do you feel powerless to stop the discussion or take control of this kind of situation?

I don't know your whole story but wonder why she is cheating but you have moved out?


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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