Hi Sho, as always I bow to the wisdom of Starsky and Train. I guess my comment would be - what does 'die on the vine' look like in practice?
Does that mean still being in touch? The odd email? text? meeting up? Would you know about any of this?
For me, the period before BD where H was having an A and I didn't know has shown me one thing. I don't want to live like that. Nope, no, no thank you...not where H is secretly in touch with female friend(s). Never again for me.
So, would whatever 'dying on the vine' means, be ok with you? My other thought would be - if she doesn't want to send a NC letter, how about routing stuff from his number/email to an open account that is fully available for you to see? I'm no vet, but might that be a way through the impasse?
However, it may not be the NC letter itself that is the sticking point here - more your W's unwillingness to do that, and what it says about where she's at.
I agree that the strong and decisive stance was attractive and you should channel your inner John Wayne my friend.
Good luck with whatever you decide....rooting for you xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
My waw was, at one time, head over heels in love with her ap. He broke it off with her but she was pining for him for months afterward. Big time. Finally, MY feelings began to change. MY love for her started to fade. All of a sudden I genuinely did not care what she was doing and simultaneously felt confident that I could be happy without her. I realized that I was her plan B and I refuse to be anyone's plan B.
I never moved out of my home but I did ignore her completely and began to live my life to the fullest without her. I stopped asking for transparency from her. I didn't ask where she was going or where she had been. I didn't contact her unless it had something to do with our kids or business. And then I kept it to a minimum. I ramped up my workouts and poured myself into my business. I took trips to see friends in Arizona and Florida. I updated my wardrobe. I went to the Kentucky Derby with friends. I made plans with my kids. When we were in the home together I ignored her completely. After about 2 weeks she began to show signs of interest. Her calling and texting increased. Her attempts to get my attention at home increased. I did not bend.
Finally she sent me an email of total capitulation. An "I will do anything and everything" email. I told her that we could start to have date nights once a week and see how it goes. And I will tell you that it has been one hell of a roller coaster since. We are piecing but we are far from out of the woods.
Sho, in my case her feelings had not died completely. Once she felt the reality of losing me forever it caused her feelings to return with a vengance. It took time for her feelings for her AP to die as well. I made up my mind that I was going to walk away and never look back unless she did a complete 180. I believe that was the key to getting her to feel in love with me again. She saw me strong, happy, confident and genuinely moving on without her. I was driving the fun bus and she was not on it. All of a sudden the reality of losing me and the great life we had built with our family and friends hit her like a ton of bricks. Again, this is how my situation evolved and yours may or may not unfold the same way.
If I were in your shoes I would definitely take a strong stance. As Starsky pointed out, it is the right thing to do and it is the thing that is most likely to work in getting her to pull her head out of her A$$. You need to walk away and mean it. She has repeatedly crossed the boundaries of your relationship and is still undecided about you and your M. If she contacts you then you can decide if you want to work on the M. But, it has to be her idea to make it work, not yours. You have held it together for long enough. It is time for you to let go of the rope. I would go no contact unless about kids or finances. I would GAL to the highest level possible. Do what you love to do. Become the best possible version of yourself in every way. Have total confidence that you are a good man and an outstanding catch for any woman and that you can and will be happy without your waw.
Me: 45 W: 44 M: 20 T: 31 S 20, D 13
W affair ended 5-13-14 W confessed 5-27-14 W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure Living in same house, separate beds
Per usual, thank you to everyone for this great support and feedback. I really appreciate it. I consulted with a few lawyers today, re-engaging in a process that I backed away from last year. I know that I need to take a strong stand. What I am trying to figure out is what is that stand specifically. On one hand, I can give her the ultimatum (send the NC letter, go completely transparent or I am out) OR I can go dark, work on me, be manly, be a leader, etc. The latter is more passive while the former just gets straight to the point.
My third would be to file for D, which is an offshoot of the first option except it just assumes that she won't meet my parameters, so I am done asking. I am just moving forward.
Me: 40, W: 40 M: 15, T: 18 D - 10, S - 7 D announcement 6/7/2014 A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W) Still living together and sharing same bed
You don't have to file the D just yet to show how serious you are. Just "accidentally" leave the L business cards somewhere. It shows you are taking action independently. And go dim/dark and work on yourself. Put the meeting dates with L's on your calendar. If she asks just say you are figuring out your options.
Ultimatums and talking about what she needs to do are not very strong actions and you did that already. She doesn't believe your serious. Time for actions, not words.
Me:49 W:45 M:19 T:22 EA confirmed and ended 8/2014 S:19,17 D:9,5
I'd like to add that filing for D is an all-in move, and not something to be done as a bluff. It's the nuclear option. It's something you do because you've tried what you believe is reasonable and you are sticking to your morals and boundaries, and the situation is not acceptable to you.
Do not do it expecting her to snap out of the "fog". If she does react and want to save the marriage, then it's an all or nothing proposition as well. No half measures. You need to know what the road home looks like beforehand. In my mind, the list would start with: admitting to the A's (has she really?), send no contact letters (I like post-nup too), and change her phone #, e-mail, FB, everything that ties her to A's. That's just to start with. You might even have it written up. Do not share it with her unless she comes to you wanting to avoid the D. This is just for you, to know what the beginnings of reconciling looks like to you should it come up. You can't back down unless it's on your terms, and I wouldn't call that backing down.
I got this sort of advice back before I filed. It gave me pause, but after discussing with the few friends and pastor who knew of my sitch, it was the only option acceptable to me. Some people can tolerate their way in a M that lacks respect, faithfulness, and honesty. I am one who cannot. That's your decision, don't make it lightly, and don't expect it to snap her out of the "fog". What I've learned in the last year or so is that, odds are, she will not.
I had that understood in my mind before filing. My XW seemed stunned the first couple days but never backed off the A's. After she talked to an attorney, her entitlement never hit the brakes and was shiftin' gears. So much for amicable.
In a way, my XW made it "easy" for me. I felt horrible at first, but I do not regret my decision today. It's what I had to do. I believe one day my boys will understand. Good luck and God Bless, Sho.
Me: 37, W: 36 S6, S3 M: 8 T:11 Discovered 1st A: 9/3/14 Began DB: 9/20/14 W "ended" 1st A repeatedly Discovered at least 3 more A's, filed 10/29/14
I'd like to add that filing for D is an all-in move, and not something to be done as a bluff. It's the nuclear option. It's something you do because you've tried what you believe is reasonable and you are sticking to your morals and boundaries, and the situation is not acceptable to you.
Do not do it expecting her to snap out of the "fog". If she does react and want to save the marriage, then it's an all or nothing proposition as well. No half measures. You need to know what the road home looks like beforehand. In my mind, the list would start with: admitting to the A's (has she really?), send no contact letters (I like post-nup too), and change her phone #, e-mail, FB, everything that ties her to A's. That's just to start with. You might even have it written up. Do not share it with her unless she comes to you wanting to avoid the D. This is just for you, to know what the beginnings of reconciling looks like to you should it come up. You can't back down unless it's on your terms, and I wouldn't call that backing down.
I got this sort of advice back before I filed. It gave me pause, but after discussing with the few friends and pastor who knew of my sitch, it was the only option acceptable to me. Some people can tolerate their way in a M that lacks respect, faithfulness, and honesty. I am one who cannot. That's your decision, don't make it lightly, and don't expect it to snap her out of the "fog". What I've learned in the last year or so is that, odds are, she will not.
I had that understood in my mind before filing. My XW seemed stunned the first couple days but never backed off the A's. After she talked to an attorney, her entitlement never hit the brakes and was shiftin' gears. So much for amicable.
In a way, my XW made it "easy" for me. I felt horrible at first, but I do not regret my decision today. It's what I had to do. I believe one day my boys will understand. Good luck and God Bless, Sho.
Sorry for hijacking this convo but I have a related questions. My H moved out (maybe with OW) and shows no interest in stopping A. Working with my DB coach I have see a couple of signs that he has not completely detached from me.
In July I filed for a legal separation so that I could get him to move out and protect my assets. Those were my personal boundaries. He countered filed for a divorce but little action has happened since until last weekend when he called to say his L said I need to file my financial forms. I'm filing those but letting him make the next move.
I have gone mostly dark and am GAL. Should I be bold and move D forward?
Me53 H48 M 13 No children together BDMay '15 PA June '15 H moves out,files 8/15 wants "quick divorce" but does nothing Me sending proposal 12/15, court dates upcoming
