Still Struggling with a plan!

[hopeOK]

First thread-
Huge Backslide After Affair Recovery

Infidelity section thread-
Heading Toward Affair- What to Do?

Time for a new thread. Still not consistent with any set plan.

Working on my 180 which is to not to confront H when my anxiety sets in & I am in a panic (convinced I know something that usually I do not know for certain).

I am GAL... I had 2 evening events last week. I have 1-2 evening events this week.

Last week H wanted to "fix" it because what we were doing was leading us to no where good. He made several changes to transparency & started wearing his ring again.

Then Friday I freaked out & approached him in an accusatory way (hence figuring out what my 180 needed to be!) & he has shut down. We are still friendly but he has withdrawn any affection that we had started to build back up after his "fix" it email.

We have a vacation starting on Saturday & lasting for 16 days. It will be interesting to see how that goes. My individual counselor thinks that it will be a good opportunity for us to build back some good into the relationship.

Started reading "His Needs, Her Needs" today. I am intrigued. I think it could be helpful for us. Those that have read it, when did you & how did you see if your spouse would read it?

[CaliGuy]

From your other thread ....

Trying to get out of his head & to stop worrying so much about all that. This is difficult. I think because if you care about saving your marriage, it is only natural to think about what your spouse is thinking, going through, needing, etc. It doesn't help that we have been an avoid-avoid type relationship (found this out in our marital counseling) and this got us into a lot of our problems before. We both stuffed our resentments & then exploded on each other when we couldn't hold it in any longer. So we tended to avoid conflict and discussions about the conflicts whenever possible. So then in marriage counseling we learned how to address these things. And now... I am suppose to back off & wait for him to use the counseling skills & address his issues? I just have so much conflicting information ... my counselor is even suggesting doing something different. So no wonder I am at war with myself on what my best approach should be.

I found that the DB techniques felt so opposite of what I 'felt' I should be doing .... but then I realized, I spent 24 years doing what I 'felt' I should be doing and the more I pressed .. the more she ran. Even now as we are BOTH commited and BOTH actively doing the work to rebuild our M and our Trust ... I still catch myself pursuing, because when I do she pulls back ... its the Push-Pull dance one you must figure out Hope .. because by your posts .. you are pushing alot .. and your H is definately pulling away .... so how do you counter this?? Yup.. YOU PULL BACK and let him come to you.

Started reading "His Needs, Her Needs" today. I am intrigued. I think it could be helpful for us. Those that have read it, when did you & how did you see if your spouse would read it?

Simple answer ... when they are all in .. but even then some spouses are not as active in the M as others, your H may feel that his efforts should be enough, the fact he is merely physically there should show you ... by you wanting him to read the book you would feel that he finally cares about the M the same way you do ... this most likely is not the case.

I know this because I am the same .. I have read 5 M help books and W is only 1/2 through the first one we 'started together' ... its not how she operates, nor does it mean she doesn't care about me or our M ... but I used to think that way to be honest.

Allow his some room to breathe, do not suffocate him .. nor start tossing 'fix it ' books in his direction, if he asks you what you are reading .. then by all means share, leave it out .. maybe he picks it up .... maybe he sets his iced tea on it .. allow him some space and the room to move in your relationship.

[hopeOK]

From your other thread ....

Trying to get out of his head & to stop worrying so much about all that. This is difficult. I think because if you care about saving your marriage, it is only natural to think about what your spouse is thinking, going through, needing, etc. It doesn't help that we have been an avoid-avoid type relationship (found this out in our marital counseling) and this got us into a lot of our problems before. We both stuffed our resentments & then exploded on each other when we couldn't hold it in any longer. So we tended to avoid conflict and discussions about the conflicts whenever possible. So then in marriage counseling we learned how to address these things. And now... I am suppose to back off & wait for him to use the counseling skills & address his issues? I just have so much conflicting information ... my counselor is even suggesting doing something different. So no wonder I am at war with myself on what my best approach should be.

I found that the DB techniques felt so opposite of what I 'felt' I should be doing .... but then I realized, I spent 24 years doing what I 'felt' I should be doing and the more I pressed .. the more she ran. Even now as we are BOTH commited and BOTH actively doing the work to rebuild our M and our Trust ... I still catch myself pursuing, because when I do she pulls back ... its the Push-Pull dance one you must figure out Hope .. because by your posts .. you are pushing alot .. and your H is definately pulling away .... so how do you counter this?? Yup.. YOU PULL BACK and let him come to you.

I totally get this. When we were in counseling for his affair & we learned the role we each played in leading up to it, we figured out that I had withdrawn & he pursued. Then the affair changed the dynamic. All of a sudden, I was the pursuer. I was shocked into reality and was afraid of losing the marriage. He was in his fog & I was pursuing heavy. Then as time went along & we went through counseling, I think we both evened out. Still working through issues, but no clear pursuer/withdrawer roles.

Then bam... we are back in it. Except instead of the roles we played for years (him pursuing, me distancing), I am pursuing as I did at finding out about the affair. Because he is pulling away from me in his hurt.

So definitely totally get this. Yes. Get this 100%. But because I have played both roles, it is hard for me to find the medium. I think I am doing much better at not pursuing. Still mess up from time to time & confront when I am feeling crazy panicked... but that is my new refocused 180 goal & I feel good about that.

I guess the struggle I have is that when I think about him coming to me, I realize I could be waiting for a very long time not to mention that there is possible outside interference w/ the OW that I will not stick around if indeed something happens there.

Started reading "His Needs, Her Needs" today. I am intrigued. I think it could be helpful for us. Those that have read it, when did you & how did you see if your spouse would read it?

Simple answer ... when they are all in .. but even then some spouses are not as active in the M as others, your H may feel that his efforts should be enough, the fact he is merely physically there should show you ... by you wanting him to read the book you would feel that he finally cares about the M the same way you do ... this most likely is not the case.

I know this because I am the same .. I have read 5 M help books and W is only 1/2 through the first one we 'started together' ... its not how she operates, nor does it mean she doesn't care about me or our M ... but I used to think that way to be honest.

Allow his some room to breathe, do not suffocate him .. nor start tossing 'fix it ' books in his direction, if he asks you what you are reading .. then by all means share, leave it out .. maybe he picks it up .... maybe he sets his iced tea on it .. allow him some space and the room to move in your relationship.

Ok, I definitely can see what you are saying. I will leave them around & see if he ends up picking them up.

[hopeOK]

I am thinking if things are still going poorly when we get back from our vacation, I will tell H that I am needing to go to the town we moved from (where my family is) & do xyz for a few days. I think it would be helpful for us to have some space from each other... especially if things have not improved while we are on vacation. For me, it will be helpful to be around family & enjoy myself a bit rather than always thinking about what H is doing or thinking. For H it might be helpful to get some distance from his resentments he feels towards me by not seeing me everyday.

Is this generally a good idea to get away? I think the only real danger would be in him doing something w/ the OW... but she is also married so I think it would not be so easy for her to get away. I guess they could come to our house during the day... hmmmm....

[CaliGuy]

I am thinking if things are still going poorly when we get back from our vacation, So you are setting yourself up for expectations here Hope ... DO NOT have Expectations ... just enjoy the vaca regardless of what H does .... GET OUT OF HIS HEAD I will tell H that I am needing to go to the town we moved from (where my family is) & do xyz for a few days. I think it would be helpful for us to have some space from each other... especially if things have not improved while we are on vacation. For me, it will be helpful to be around family & enjoy myself a bit rather than always thinking about what H is doing or thinking. For H it might be helpful to get some distance from his resentments he feels towards me by not seeing me everyday. If you are doing this to get a reaction out of you rH ... you are going to blow this thing up in your own lap ... worry about YOU ... if you need to get away and recharge .. go do that ... REGARDLESS of what your H says/ does

Is this generally a good idea to get away? I think the only real danger would be in him doing something w/ the OW... but she is also married so I think it would not be so easy for her to get away. I guess they could come to our house during the day... hmmmm....

[b][/b]

Again ... he will do what he wants when he wants ... he already proved that right? You leaving or staying is not going to change what he wants to do .. you have to stop thinking you and your actions control him. The A and OW ... Not your circus .. not your monkey.

[Georgiabelle]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

My boy, Cali, stuck the landing with that response up there^^^^

Hope, your h will do what he does. Free will.

Enjoy your vacation and have fun!

[hopeOK]

Again ... he will do what he wants when he wants ... he already proved that right? You leaving or staying is not going to change what he wants to do .. you have to stop thinking you and your actions control him. The A and OW ... Not your circus .. not your monkey.

Ah, ok, ok. Letting go of control (even the illusion) is difficult for me. But I definitely see what you are saying. I would be doing it for me... I find when I am with my family I am happier and more relaxed. But it is hard to stop considering what it would do for H. But point taken.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

My boy, Cali, stuck the landing with that response up there^^^^

Hope, your h will do what he does. Free will.

Enjoy your vacation and have fun!

Yes. You are right. I am working to give up the control I seem to think I could possibly have. I think my perceived ability to influence certain things makes me keep at it. I do realize that it is ultimately H's decision whether to end his contact with OW ... and it is also his decision whether to start up another affair. But I think that if I can do better at xyz (things I need to improve on... like not being so accusatory or other unhealthy communication habits I have gotten into) & we can build back a good foundation & have a lot more positive good feelings about each other... then he would more easily see that maintaining any kind of relationship w/ the OW is detrimental to our R. So am I trying to control what he does? I think I really want to create a positive environment by making healthy choices so that it enables my H & I to come together & work on being better to each other. I realize that I cannot say xyz & expect him to do it. But I think if I, say for example, apologize for my unhealthy approach, I am creating an environment of owning my mistakes & being repentant ... which is paving the way for more positive interactions in the future. Right?

[hopeOK]

H waited up in bed for me last night after I got done reading to D. He was in the middle of the bed as opposed to his far side & he was faced toward my side rather than having his back to it like he has for the past 4 nights. He initiated a conversation. He explained why he got so upset from Friday. Of course I knew this. I told him that I wished he wouldn't be so quick to yank away his affection when he gets upset/mad. He said that when I confront him like I did on Friday, it makes him feel like I do not know him at all. Then that eventually leads him to thinking about what I accused him of possibly doing (in the conversation w/ my sister that he read) w/ our child & that makes him feel even more alienated from me. So it is like a spiral. I listened and affirmed. I felt pain for causing his pain and made sure to tell him this. We also talked about needing to start all over & figure out what needs we are not meeting for each other & we agreed that we should be looking to each other to meet these needs rather than other ppl. HOWEVER! I have a gut feeling he is still talking to the OW as a friend. I am doing nothing about this at this point as I realize it is pointless. I successfully accomplished my 180 of not saying anything when I had an overwhelming anxious panic about messages that he was getting on his phone (& I found his phone relocked again when he went to the bathroom). I am letting it go for now to be addressed when we have more good things going on between us.

So another up on the roller coaster ride that is my life. We'll see how long before the next down... just hoping the downs to come are not as bad as they have been.

[CaliGuy]

hope

Good job just listening and not getting all spun out when you discovered the phone is locked .. thats progress .. baby steps.

[hopeOK]

hope

Good job just listening and not getting all spun out when you discovered the phone is locked .. thats progress .. baby steps.

Thanks, Cali. I still feel anxious about it when I think about it. This morning we were talking at the table & he took a good long time to make eye contact (& he wasn't preoccupied with reading anything ... he was just looking at everything except me) & we were talking about every day stuff. All these little red flags. I know I should not pay attention to them but it's hard to stop. But I am keeping myself from saying anything so that is really where the impact is, I think. If only I could get my mind as in control. I guess I just keep thinking of what an overwhelming obstacle we will have to undergo if he does not ever see that his contact w/ OW is a huge problem. So thinking of tackling that makes my stomach drop. It is going to be hard enough to fix our marital issues w/o her in the wings... it will be incredibly difficult if not impossible to fix it w/ her in the background, even if she is just offering "friendship". Ugh.