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Ok, it's probably a tad long, but I got it all out! 2x4 away if you need to Wonka, I'm in this for the knowledge as much as the dog.

"This is extremely upsetting W, I am trying to work with you. Not against you - nor push things to a hasty resolution that could leave one of us unnecessarily hurt.

Are you afraid that if I have dog back for a bit I won’t return him to you? Didn’t I grant you the same trust when I left him with you before going to Central America? Aren’t you now breaking it?

This is two separate issues in my mind:

Why I’m continuing to have to ask to see my dog. And why you are making that difficult/impossible for me right now.
2) Where dog will end up for good.

What I was trying to do was make it so that neither of us has to lose dog - despite this being your decision to break us up - at least not right now. What I was trying to do was collaborate - work WITH you - not control the outcome, not try to make things come out in my favor. But dog enjoys both of us, not just you.

You’re also the one saying we have to decide today where he stays for good - and do so now. It feels like you’re being controlling by keeping him from me even now. He is my dog too W, why am I having to ask repeatedly to spend time with him? Who granted you that power?

Dog was traumatized by our separation and having to live in multiple houses without stability, I’ll agree with you on that. It was traumatizing for all of us. Now we’re talking about him living in the same houses and the same routines. He’ll be fine and to say otherwise is push your agenda, not what’s in the best interest of dog.

I hear what you’re saying - you want to keep dog. I heard that when I got back from C.A. I also told you the exact same thing and feel the exact same way.

It’s very hurtful to think that you think I am able to put my extremely strong feelings for him in a box and ask me to reduce them to an emotionless decision that I have to make based upon your timeline and a few points in an email.

I love dog, he is my dog too, I don’t want to not be a part of his life nor have him not be a part of mine. I think about him every day. He was part of my everyday life up until three months ago. EVERYDAY. How do you feel about dog, W? That’s how I feel about him too. I see this from your perspective. I know you don’t want to give dog up.

It makes me angry to have you ask me to minimize these feelings down to nonsense like “if we were to ask dog ” and an upbeat email where we can “make it easy” if I give him to you. You will allow me to see him from time to time if I agree? I’m not interested in your scraps W.

No, I am not interested in just giving dog to you for good right now. And if you want to know where I think it’s best for him - it’s here.

CITY is dog's home. He lived here for TWO YEARS. He’s lived in W's City for three months now. I’m on an acre property here - you live in a condo. That combination should be the end of the conversation if we were truly basing this off of “what is best for Woofie.” Two years vs three months. Condo vs. acre of land.

I know how amazingly he and dog BFF get along and played together every day. Is there a dog BFF that dog has two years of history with? This is his home, he is familiar with this town, the hikes, and the beaches. He knows them well. I do not live on W's Road nor anywhere else with 60 mile an hour traffic.

When dog needed to be let out at night dozens and dozens of times when we were together, I got up and took care of him. You slept, not all, but most nights not even knowing he needed assistance. When you left our marital home, I took care of him. During that time I played with him every day, I comforted him, I took him to the beach, I fed him, I clipped his nails, I gave him flea meds. I stayed and took care of him. You did not.

You left our marriage W, and CITY. dog was part of both. When you left me, you left him. When you left City, you left him. When you walk away from your life, you leave things behind. You walked away and left dog behind.

Now that he should be returned to me per our prior agreement - we now have to decide where he stays forever. And low and behold that’s while he’s with you. Do you not see that this is out of alignment with everything you say you stand for?

Why can’t this be a win/win for everyone involved W? And why does his final destination have to be decided right now - just because you want to? What’s the harm in making that final decision down the road? Why do we have to follow your timeline here? Why do I? My life is still evolving, why can’t I see how things are going to pan out for the rest of the year and then speak honestly with you about what’s best for dog then?

If I am headed somewhere that is not better for dog than being with you, I have told you I would happily give him to you then - for good. I still stand by that.

But since you want one decision on where I think it’s best for him - it’s clearly here, in his home, in CITY.

Sincerely,
PP

Last edited by Cadet; 07/27/15 09:03 PM. Reason: remove name

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A "tad" long...that's one big understatement right there, PP. smile

This is a start.

You need to whittle it down to 2 to 3 paragraphs. Whip out your Sharpie pen and cross out those that contain guilt-inducing statements or digs.

The "why" questions near the bottom of your first draft is very confusing and they all go off in different tangents. It won't win you any clarity points if you go down that road.

Hints for the next draft:

-Write down the "meat" of your discussion...a value proposition, if you will (in business speak)
-State your disappointment
-State reasons why a joint custody is the best way to approach it
-Write out "win" for W/write out "win" for PP
-Write out past history of dog (two sentences)...how you cared for him without any issues or danger

Look at it from a perspective as making a business case for a joint custody of dog. Leave out emotions out of it such as guilt-inducing comments and digs.

And comments like "pushing your agenda" isn't going to make W want to work with you on this. Zip it.

Now back to the drawing board for Draft #2.






Last edited by Cadet; 07/27/15 09:00 PM. Reason: remove name
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Will do Wonka, thank you. Figured there was some vomit that needed to get wiped away.


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PP

There is still merit in writing a letter like this, for you. It lets you know what is important about your sitch and in no uncertain terms as well.

Very cathartic and for your eyes only (and the hundreds who read your thread!).

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Thanks V. The upsetting part for me is that my side of the situation does not seem to be seen. I know that I'm still looking to my W for something and I believe it's this - to be seen, to be heard, and to have that factor into this decision.

It doesn't feel like it's been a factor throughout the entire separation - quite the opposite. I am not happier than I was before - I'm happy differently, I do not believe the S is a good thing although good has come of it. I have changed my life drastically and have created immense benefit from the S, but credit is not the S's, it's mine for taking those steps.

I need to detach from needing to get this from my W or needing anything from her, but it's my challenge still and something that I'm working on.


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Ok Wonka, round 2: And man oh man, is there more that I want to say!

This is extremely upsetting W, I am really trying to work with you. Not against you - nor push things to a hasty resolution that could leave one of us unnecessarily hurt. There is a way that this can be a win/win for us both and Woofie. It also feels like we’re dangerously close to having this turn into a power struggle and I’d like to avoid that at all costs.

Woofie was traumatized by our initial separation and having to live in multiple houses (list of 5 houses he stayed at during our initial separation) without stability, I’ll agree with you on that. It was traumatizing for all of us. When he was displaying signs of distress to you, he was in a brand new home in a brand new city, of course he was clingy. Now we’re talking about the homes and routines that he knows well at this point. (This is the basis of her argument for not co-parenting Wonka....it's too traumatic on the dog)

I also hear what you’re saying - you want to keep Woofie. I heard that when I got back from XY. I also told you the exact same thing and feel the exact same way.

It’s disappointing to believe that you think I am able to put my extremely strong feelings for him in a box and ask me to dissociate from them to the point where I can make a decision based upon your timeline and a few points in an email. It makes me angry to have you ask me to minimize these feelings and rush all of this. I love Woofie, he is my dog, I don’t want to not be a part of his life nor have him not be a part of mine - nor be a part of yours. I think about him every day. He was part of my everyday life up until three months ago.

No, I am not interested in just giving Woofie to you for good right now (this is the direct question she has asked me to answer Wonka). Where is it best for him - it’s here.

My city is Woofie's home. He lived here for two years. He’s lived in W's city for three months now. I’m on an acre property here - you live in a condo. He is familiar with this town, the hikes, and the beaches and has playmates that he's known for years. I do not live on Main Thoroghfare nor anywhere else with 60 mile an hour traffic.

When Woofie needed to be let out at night dozens and dozens of times when we were together, I got up and took care of him. When you left, I played with him every day, I comforted him, I took him to the beach, I fed him, I clipped his nails, I gave him flea meds. I stayed and took impeccable care of him, when I could barely take care of myself. You commented on this yourself.

I still believe that co-parenting is the best for everyone invovled, including Woofie. If you want one decision on where I think it’s best for him though - it’s clearly here, in his home, in my City.


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Pig Pen, just wanted to relate to your desire to be understood.

For a long time I had imaginary conversations with WAW in my mind in which I'd make my points, or explain myself. And sometimes I'd then play her role of the exchange as well. Until little by little I realized STBX and I hadn't actually had any kind of communication for so long I was flat out talking to myself.

There's a really good chance I'll never be open emotionally with STBX again and never say anything deeper than 'running 10 mins late' in the days ahead. Now that I've accepted that it's gotten much easier. WAW hasn't expressed any interest in any thoughts of mine for the last year plus, and she continues to try to exert her preferences on many things...defining what she feels is 'fair' without asking me for example...but now I see her for what she is and I'm not interested in playing, or giving her power to wreck the wonderful life I have.

You'll get there. Keep going.


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Originally Posted By: PigPen
Thanks V. The upsetting part for me is that my side of the situation does not seem to be seen. I know that I'm still looking to my W for something and I believe it's this - to be seen, to be heard, and to have that factor into this decision.

It doesn't feel like it's been a factor throughout the entire separation - quite the opposite. I am not happier than I was before - I'm happy differently, I do not believe the S is a good thing although good has come of it. I have changed my life drastically and have created immense benefit from the S, but credit is not the S's, it's mine for taking those steps.

I need to detach from needing to get this from my W or needing anything from her, but it's my challenge still and something that I'm working on.


WOW....Pigpen!! Just Wow! I have read some powerful things on this board, but that above^^^^^^^^^^^took my breath away. I haven't posted on your thread ever, and I hope you don't mind that I do now, but I just had to post. This is unbelievably authentic, you can just feel it in every word, every phrase.

I have watch your sitch unfold from the sidelines not feeling I could add anything of value. But the above needs to be fully acknowledged. You are quite the inspiration.

Thank you for everything you share. Wishing you light and love and the outcome your heart desires.

Jellybxxx

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^^ agree with this. The pain and suffering of losing our spouses is difficult but we manage to use a chit situation and make the best of it to better ourselves. We could easily allow this to consume us and make our lives worse, let it wash over us and be miserable. But, we decide life is worth living and we make the most of ourselves. You're doing just that PP,you should be proud of that.


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Originally Posted By: Zues126
Pig Pen, just wanted to relate to your desire to be understood.

For a long time I had imaginary conversations with WAW in my mind in which I'd make my points, or explain myself. And sometimes I'd then play her role of the exchange as well. Until little by little I realized STBX and I hadn't actually had any kind of communication for so long I was flat out talking to myself.

There's a really good chance I'll never be open emotionally with STBX again and never say anything deeper than 'running 10 mins late' in the days ahead. Now that I've accepted that it's gotten much easier. WAW hasn't expressed any interest in any thoughts of mine for the last year plus, and she continues to try to exert her preferences on many things...defining what she feels is 'fair' without asking me for example...but now I see her for what she is and I'm not interested in playing, or giving her power to wreck the wonderful life I have.

You'll get there. Keep going.


Thanks Z, I always appreciate your input. I know it's a process to completely detach from someone who's opinion was the most important one for so many years.

Glad to hear that you're in such a good place right now.


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