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#2592038 07/28/15 04:37 AM
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BEClem Offline OP
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It's over everyone. Wife told me she filed for divorce. There is no way she is changing her mind. It's over.

I'm really drained and tired. Going to try and get some sleep. I will give details in the morning.

She expects the kids to live with her fulltime and the things she said she would do if I fought her on it were despicable.

I will go into details in the morning. I feel numb.

BEClem #2592043 07/28/15 05:05 AM
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Damn sorry man. Keep your head up.

DNTWNT #2592053 07/28/15 06:59 AM
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Take a deep breath, BEC. Things are only over when you decide they are, her filing doesn't have to be the end. Don't let this shake you and backslide, continue to DB and work on yourself. You will likely need legal help very soon so don't make any quick changes without it. Don't let her scare you into giving up anything you don't want also, you have rights also.

You are going to be ok, keep trusting this process. While my W hasn't filed yet the paperwork is sitting in the kitchen and in various places for months now. When she first told me she wanted a D in Jan I was a wreck. I still have the pain inside but I am fully capable now of moving on with my life with or without her. Keep making yourself the man only a fool would leave and you will be great no matter what.

Last edited by Fogg; 07/28/15 06:59 AM.

Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Fogg #2592071 07/28/15 08:28 AM
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That's a kicker. You're gonna be a wreck, it's OK. Then get up and rebuild yourself.


M 45 W 52
SD22 S9 D8
BD 6 April 2015
Not living together 4 Dec 2015
Huddy #2592101 07/28/15 12:11 PM
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BE,

It isn't over. Just a bump in the road. There are plenty of people on these boards whose spouse has filed and continue to DB. Some of them even are showing improvement.

Also D is just a piece of paper....It isn't over.

Of course it hurts and makes it difficult, keep doing what you are doing and don't give up.


T14 M5
SD15,D8,S6,D3
"Not Happy" 12/11/14
EA discovered 2/11/15
MC started 2/17/15
MC "put on hold" 4/3/15
W IC started 4/5/15
PA admitted 5/7/15
WW moves out 5/8/15
WW gets her own place 7/15/15
BEClem #2592102 07/28/15 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: BEClem
It's over everyone. Wife told me she filed for divorce. There is no way she is changing her mind. It's over.

I'm really drained and tired. Going to try and get some sleep. I will give details in the morning.

She expects the kids to live with her fulltime and the things she said she would do if I fought her on it were despicable.

I will go into details in the morning. I feel numb.


It [censored]. I get it. I really get it.
I'll wait for the details, but try to remember that divorce is only a change in the way you file your taxes. Dont do anything stupid today that could affect the rest of your life.

Last edited by Azzork; 07/28/15 12:17 PM.
Azzork #2592123 07/28/15 01:23 PM
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I'm sorry to come here and read your update. BEC, she may have filed, but it's not over until you decide it is. It takes a while for the divorce process to take place and during that time, you continue to DB for YOU. Do not allow this woman to bully and blackmail you into giving up your rights or for paying out the nose for her enjoyment. You stand your ground and get a good lawyer who will fight for your rights as a father and as a former spouse.

Your wife hasn't a clue as to what she's getting into. She will need to find a full time job, take care of the children when she comes home, do all of the work around a home, pay her own taxes, etc. You now need to step back and allow her to "learn" what it is like to be on her own totally. Your interest is now your children. Please do not go over there and do all of the things you've been doing to make her life easier because, as you can see, it didn't work.

BEC, it is now all about YOU and your children. Do not allow her filing and her statements scare you. Get a good lawyer who will looking out for YOU and your children.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2592351 07/29/15 01:53 AM
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Just wanted to offer my support to you. I found out recently (via txt of all things) that my W had filed. I completely understand how you feel, it's a kick in the gut even when we all know it's a looming option from the moment of BD.

I also agree with everyone above - it's not over for YOU until you say so.

Hang in there BEC, tomorrow is a new day.


Me:36 W:30
M:2.75 T:7
BD: 4/2015
ILYBNILWY: 5/2015
W Moved Out: 5/2015
W filed for D: 7/2015
BEClem #2592355 07/29/15 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: BEClem
It's over everyone. Wife told me she filed for divorce. There is no way she is changing her mind. It's over.

I'm really drained and tired. Going to try and get some sleep. I will give details in the morning.

She expects the kids to live with her fulltime and the things she said she would do if I fought her on it were despicable.

I will go into details in the morning. I feel numb.


BE,

Listen here....we have had many WASes declare their intention to file for a D and then it gets postponed for various reasons. Some even call off D. Don't take W's words at a face value and feel like it's the end of the world.

Yeah, I get it that you feel sucker punched and feel it's the end of the road. Guess what? It isn't. Let's take Cali's sitch...18 months long with a bunch of fits and starts on D paperwork. Talk about lots of ups and downs.

You need to focus on the big picture and focus on what your bottom line here. As a father you would want to ensure that you have 50-50 custody and a reasonable financial settlement. Don't lie down and let W steamroll over you with threats etc.

jedi #2592356 07/29/15 02:04 AM
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I just wanted to send you my words of encouragement. I agree that it is only over when you say it's over. My h told me he needed space and two months later I was served divorce papers out of the blue. He didn't even tell me. It is okay to not be okay. You will pick yourself up and you will be okay in time.


Me:33 H:36
T:13 years
M:10 years
S4
Separated 05/15
H Filed 06/15
ep0215 #2592359 07/29/15 02:11 AM
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Sorry to hear but things aren't over until you decide to be done.

My H filed for D and we almost made it to mediation and things changed.

The best advice I can give is fight for what's best for you and the kids. These decisions can potentially affect the rest of your life. Fight for what you think is right and best for you and your children. Leave the dirty work to your lawyer


M 31 H 34
S 6 S 9
BD 2/14 Piecing 8/14
T384 #2592486 07/29/15 03:19 PM
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BE

I am sorry to hear this ... but honestly the writing was there right?

Does this change things for you? Read jobs post again ... that's the attitude and approach you are going to need right now. One from strength and fortitude. Your W will spew and throw tantrums but do not allow her to walk all over you anylonger. She has had this all set up before BD .... and so far you have played along just as she predicted .... time to actually 180 this and become a better man.

You might be feeling pretty low and hopeless, I am here to tell you if you start the work it will pay off regardless of what your W does. I did it .... turns out my W did a 180 of her own ... I would not bank on that nor did I .. .I became a better man for all this .. and this forum had a HUGE role in that transformation

You have 2 choices ... continue about things the way you have .... or decide today is the day you will start living YOUR life.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



CaliGuy #2592621 07/29/15 09:53 PM
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BEC??

Please update us.


Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Fogg #2592667 07/30/15 12:12 AM
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BEClem Offline OP
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I'll try and post an update tonight. It's been a roller coaster of a ride the last 3 days.

It'll be a long one and I'll try and make it as readable as possible.

BEClem #2592668 07/30/15 12:12 AM
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Thinking of you BE. Stay strong.


M 39 W 36
T5 M3
BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day
Served 9/15
D finalized 6/17
PigPen #2592681 07/30/15 01:24 AM
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Thank you for the overwhelming support everyone. That is what makes this community so special. As a former Marine, the shared bond of the people in this community is reminiscent of the military.

A certain favorite quote of mine comes to mind:

"We stand alone together"

I'm pretty physically and emotionally drained. I intend to post my update of the last several days tomorrow.

BEClem #2592696 07/30/15 02:42 AM
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I'm with you bud.

DNTWNT #2592716 07/30/15 05:12 AM
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Been following along silently. Just wanted to throw my hat in the ring as well and send light and love your way.

Like they all say, it ain't over til it's over. And it's over when it's over for you, when you decide to drop that rope.

You're a plane on the runway right now, burning a ton of fuel just to get fast enough for lift off, but still on the ground. But you will soon have enough speed to fly. Just keep moving down that runway.


Me 37,W37
D8,D5
T20 years, M13 years
BD-5/14
MC starts (continues)-9/14
EA discovered-10/14
Piecing(?)-11/14-5/14
"I just feel 'done'"-5/15
Trial S (I moved)-6/15/15
BEClem #2592723 07/30/15 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: BEClem


She expects the kids to live with her fulltime and the things she said she would do if I fought her on it were despicable.



If you don't carry around a recording device with you at all times you interact with your wife, now might be a good time to start.

1. Catch her staying stuff like that will go far towards YOU prevailing in court

2. Protect yourself from potential false claims that way wards love to use to tilt the scales of justice in their favor. ESPECIALLY, if and when you choose to fight to protect your children, to the greatest extent possible, from prolonged exposure to an unrepentant wayward.

3. So you can document the truth should anyone ever need independent verification of your side of the story (like your kids years from now).

Your marriage isn't over. Plenty of people recover despite a divorce filing. In fact, your best strategy MIGHT BE taking the offensive and actually confronting her strongly legally...fighting for primary custody and guaranteeing yourself 50/50 custody in the process.

You can't roll over and give in. Your children need you to fight for them and protect them. Wayward divorced moms make terrible parents. 99/100 times the kids are better off...primarily....with the betrayed dad.

A divorce doesn't conclude the war for your marriage. There are now just going to be two battlefields. Let your lawyer handle the divorce battlefield. You don't discuss it with her and hide behind your attorney. Protect yourself with a recording device (maybe a wristwatch) so you don't get blindsided with a restraining order or something. Other than that...carrry on with your 180 and GAL'ing.


The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
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I'm working on my update right now everyone. It is really long so please bare with it when I post it.

Thank you my friends.

BEClem #2592923 07/30/15 09:48 PM
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BE,

Hope it's not War and Peace. grin

Wonka #2592930 07/30/15 09:58 PM
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Oh Wonka LOL It won't be quite that long. But it is going to be long. I apologize in advance. It has been a very eventful and detailed four days.

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Ok. This is going to be long everyone so I'll do it in a readable and timeline type fashion.

Last Week:

I had been way backed off and light and breezy. No R talk for several weeks. Wife had started showing signs of positive movement.

She informed me of a trip she had planned to take the kids to see her mom and dad from last Thursday to this Tuesday. So last Monday, I spent $300 to get some brake work done on her vehicle so it was safe for the trip.

She asked me to take care of the dog and cats at our house while she was away. We agreed upon me staying at our house while they were on the trip because with my work schedule it would be easiest.

They leave for the trip on Thursday. We have some positive and light text message exchanges on Friday and Saturday and Sunday.

I had a suspicion, that turned out to be wrong, that her "friend" may have gone with them on the trip. He lives right by where I work. So I did (probably not a good idea) drive by his house on Sunday morning and evening to see if his car was there. Apparently he got a new car because I didn't see his truck but here is what happened:

Monday

I call wife in the evening just to see what time they will be coming home on Tuesday. She is very cold, distant, alot of "uh huh's" and one word answers on the phone. I ask if something is wrong. She says no. I press a little bit and then it comes out:

"Why did you drive by "friends" house on Sunday morning and night. He saw you and says if you drive by his house again he will call the police".

I'm not sure what to say at this point. She presses and asks if I am going to answer her. I calmly say that if she wishes to have an open an honest conversation about Mr. "Friend" that we can do so but it would have to be a two way conversation.

She presses for me to answer. I tell her that the reason I drove by was to see if his car was there because I wanted to know if he had gone on the trip with them.

I then confront her about some of the half truths and lies she has been telling me about him. All the time they spend together with our kids etc.

She ends up saying that "It doesn't matter because I filed for divorce before I left. It has nothing to do with "friend". There is nothing going on there. I don't like you. I'm not attracted to you. I don't love you. I don't want to be married to you any more".

This conversation carries on for a bit in this fashion. I switch gears and ask if she is going through with the divorce what does she think that looks like. She says pretty much the same as it looks now. Says her lawyer has an agreement that I will be receiving and I can choose to sign it or not. If I don't agree on certain points she will "make it ugly". I ask what she means.

She says that the agreement states that she wants joint legal custody but that the kids will live with her (full custodial custody). She wants $350 per week in child support (which is about half of what I make) but is "asking for no alimony". That I can see the kids whenever I want but when I ask her if she plans on getting a job she says "of course. I can't live on $1400 per month (which is what she will be expecting me to live on) and says she will work at night when I am with the kids".

So I say that she is expecting to take half of my earnings, continue to be a full time stay at home mom and when she says I can see the kids whenever I want that really means to babysit them while she only works a part time job".

Now I have a lawyer and have been educated on how all of this will work and that is NOT what things will look like. So I challenge her on it. This is where she goes into specifics at to what she will "get ugly on".

She says that if I don't agree to the $350 per week in child support and try to go for 50/50 legal and physical custody that she will bring up the following that attacks my family members (people who have treated her like nothing but a daughter and sister even through all of this):

-She will disclose that I live with my parents in a home that is being foreclosed upon and that I live with a registered sex offender (my brother who got in trouble when he was 23 with a 17 year old - not a child molester)

-That she will use my "extensive mental illness history (meaning the depression I went through. I am not mentally ill).

-That the home we live in (which is my sister's) is set to go into foreclosure.

-That I am 95% finished with my Master's Degree but can't find a good job.

At this point I am beside myself. I can't believe what I just heard. The conversation continues for a bit and it ends. My mother was kind enough to drive over to my house and spend some time with me. I disclose to her what was said and it brought my mother to tears.

Tuesday:

I hardly sleep Monday night. Make sure I leave my house before her and the kids get home from their trip and go back to my parents.

Talk to my Lawyer. Disclose to my family the things my Wife said. My sister, who has always been neutral, becomes livid that my wife would stoop so low as to throw mud onto people who have loved her for almost 15 years: especially my parents.

Tuesday evening I have a phone conversation with my Wife. I admit that I did try to convince her not to do this. To give ourselves a chance before making such a life altering decision. This was fruitless as I knew it would be.

So we switch the conversation to the divorce agreement. She tries to play it like she doesn't want to screw me over. I make it clear that she is. When I bring up all of the things she said about my family she actually says that "I never said anything about your parents or your sister. Only your brother".

When I repeat back to her word for word what she had said she would use to play dirty she said "the foreclosures have nothing to do with your parents and sister personally". My response: "Are you serious?"

They are clearly personal attacks and for her to not see it that way is beyond comprehension. And my parents and sister most certainly took them as personal attacks.

The conversation ends.

Wednesday:

As predicted by me, she texts me to see if I want to spend the afternoon with the kids from 3-8, during which time my son had a swim lesson. I knew this text was coming because on her calendar in the house she had her "girls night" scheduled.

At this point I am still very much upset and don't want my kids to see me this way. I call her and explain that I am trying to protect them from this and would rather not. I also ask her if she had plans. She says that her plans were cancelled but that all of her friend's were going to a fair. We hang up.

A few hours pass and I am feeling a little more composed so I decide I want to take my son to his lesson. I call her about and hour and a half before his lesson to tell her that I was feeling better and wanted to take him. Her immediate reaction is "Just him and not D2?" "You haven't seen them in a week"

I say that I know I haven't seen them in a week but that is because she took them away, which is fine, but I figured I could take my son to his lesson and spend some quality father son time. If she wanted me to take our daughter as well than I would and would bring them back home afterward.

She is upset throughout the entire conversation. I ask "what is the problem? This is not a big deal"

She rants about how I said I didn't want to see them and now I am calling and saying I do and how it is "confusing" to her.

I say that I did not say I didn't want to see them and that the context matters. I had said that I was very emotional earlier in the day and didn't want them to see me like that.

She says fine. Son will be ready at 5 and just hangs up.

I go to pick up son. Daughter decides she wants to stay home with mom so that took care of the bringing them both "issue".

Before lesson son tells me how they say mom's "friend" before they had left for their camping trip and that he would be going with them next time for mom's birthday. I let it slide.

Son has great lesson. I drive him home. When we get home, son asks me before we get into the house if I can stay until he goes to bed. I tell him "you have to ask mom."

We get inside and son asks if dad can stay. She says no. He presses. She says no. He presses again. She says "fine, dad can make you dinner". I ask her if there are any bills that need to be paid. She says yes. I ask her to give them to me and I'll take care of them. She shows them to me and says they are in her name and would prefer to pay them herself so she knows they will get paid and gets pissed. She storms off upstairs.

Wife comes storming back downstairs and says to me very rudely "you can stay until 7 and then I want you to leave". Then she storms into the laundry room. I follow her and tell her that I'm not going to stay and that it is fine. She storms away from me and goes back upstairs.

I had no intention of staying so as not to not create turmoil. I tell my son I can't stay and call my daughter from upstairs to say hi and bye.

I call to my wife and ask her to come to the stairs so I can tell her about son's upcoming swim schedule. After that I say "so I'll call you tomorrow and we can talk?" (because the night prior we had agreed to talk about the possibility of trying. Or at least that is what I thought. Stupid me).

She storms back upstairs and says "No, I am not interested in talking to you".

So now I'm like "wait a minute". I go upstairs and into the bedroom. Mind you I am calm the entire time. I say to her that I thought we were going to talk tomorrow and what has changed? She begins a rant, so I close the bedroom door so the kids don't see and hear.

She starts going off about how "Daddy ignores us for 3 years (an angry reference to my depression) and now he is Mr. Fun". I say "maybe I am actually not depressed any more, as I have been telling you for months now and I'm just being myself".

Then she says "son kept asking for you to stay and even though I said no you sat there with your thumb up your a$$ and said nothing so I have to be the bad guy again". So I throw truth darts at her and say "wait a minute. For nine months every single time, and it has been always, when the kids have asked for me to stay or to go and do something with you guys I have ALWAYS told them I can't our of respect for you. So that is an untrue statement".

Then she goes off on me and says "why are you cutting me off financially". I say "what are you talking about?" She says "why are you now suddenly asking to take the bills and pay them yourself like I am incapable of paying them". I tell her that I never have and am not now cutting her off financially but that if she is deciding she wants a divorce than there are some things that are going to give and change. That I am no longer going to just come and give her every dime I make. That I will ensure the bills are paid, as I always have, but that I need to start thinking about the future for the kids and myself. I tell her that we need to sit down and discuss a budget. That the small amount (about $100 per week) that she makes from babysitting our niece needs to start going into the pot to help pay bills. She argues that "it always has". Which I personally do not believe.

She then starts ranting and telling me to leave. Then she says to me "what did you say to your sister? She won't talk to me". I tell her that I simply informed my family members of the threats she had made about "playing ugly" that involved them. She goes off and says that what she said had nothing to do with them (which is ridiculous) and says "thank you for destroying my friendship with your sister".

Now the conversation moves downstairs and the kids are witnessing all of this. I tell her that I did no such thing as "destroy her friendship with my sister" and that my family members deserved to know what was said about them and they do take it personally. That I have never once badmouthed her to anyone during any of this and my family has treated her with nothing but love even throughout all of this.

I threw more truth darts at her and told her that this is typical of her. She does something that has consequences and then turns it around and blames it on me. I told her that anyone who is close to our situation that I have spoken to about it that I have ALWAYS told the full story which includes MY OWN ROLE IN IT. My depression. My withdrawal. My brief slip up with another woman. Because I OWN IT and am accountable for it.

I then tell her that she, on the other hand, takes no responsibility for anything. I tell her how I have been shunned by her friends who have known me for almost 15 years. How her mother ignored me the last time I saw her etc. I said that obviously she has shared one side of the story with these people because the perception they have is that BEC caused all of this.

Then she gets really mad. "get out. get out." I'm trying to keep calm. To keep her calm. She finally says "fine if you aren't leaving I will" and starts to gather up the kids' things. I say "wait a minute. I'm leaving. I had no intention of staying. What are you going to do? Just uproot the children? Well that is not right for them. And I am not going to do that to them." I told her that she knows that I am a nice guy and I would never do that to them. And that in my opinion she has taken advantage of me being a nice guy.

She angrily says "get out". At this point we are at the front door. I go to leave and my son and daughter (they are little: S6 and D2) are right there and are visibly upset. The go to go after me. "Dad wait" etc. I hug them and walk outside. My son goes to go after me again. At this point I am on the porch and he is inside the storm door. My wife grabs his arm and pulls him inside. I say to her through the storm door "don't you do that to him".

She slams the main door and locks it.

I start to leave and then go back. Not to speak to her but to say a proper goodbye to the children. I go to the window and ask my son to tell mom to open the door, not for me to speak to her but so I could say goodbye to him and his sister.

She opens the door and is standing there staring at me as if I am Lucifer. My wonderful little people hug me. I can see the upset expressions on their faces. On the verge of tears. I tell them that it's ok and that I love them very much.

It was the type of hug where I had both of them. D2 on my left and S6 on my right. It was a very long hug. As if they did not want to let go.

Thursday

Wife texts me to see, again. if I want the kids from 3-8. This has been her typical pattern during the sep. I come watch the kids and she goes out and has her social life. I'm done with that.

I call her. We talk about that. She makes a huge deal blah blah blah.

I tell her that things need to change. That I want to see the kids everyday but it needs to be on my terms too. Not so she can go do her thing. I'm done providing her the time and funds for that.

Then we get into us talk and I was told the most hurtful things I have ever been told.

I've shared in the past here how my W was sexually abused as a child and how emotional and physical intimacy have always been an issue.

Well today, I was told by her that she recently figured out that:

-She had come to terms with what had happened to her a long time ago and it was me who made it into an issue. That she wasn't a fragile bird that needed saving.

-That she had never had panic attacks during sex with anyone else. Only with me.

-That all those times she said she didn't like sex. It was that she didn't like it with me.

-That we never should have gotten married. We were too young.

-That she never felt a spark for me and that is why she had sexual and emotional closeness issues with me. Not because of her childhood experiences.

-That she is ONLY closed off to me.

Of course she never said any of these things to me EVER 8 or 10 or 12 years ago. She just "figured all of this out recently".

So that has been my week so far. I'm ready for the expert analysis from the peanut gallery smile

BEClem #2592989 07/31/15 12:26 AM
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Alright, BE. Here are some thoughts. Im not going to bash.....just thinking out loud for the future.


Originally Posted By: BEClem

I had a suspicion, that turned out to be wrong, that her "friend" may have gone with them on the trip. He lives right by where I work. So I did (probably not a good idea) drive by his house on Sunday morning and evening to see if his car was there. Apparently he got a new car because I didn't see his truck but here is what happened.

Im sure by now, you know this was a terrible idea. What did you hope to gain by going there? What would you have learned if his truck was there? What would you have learned if it wasnt there? Would any of the things you would have learned changed anything?

Not only did you drive there, but you did it TWICE? And Im guessing you didnt just drive by a random house in a subdivision somewhere if he NOTICED that you were cruising by. Youre better than this, man.


Originally Posted By: BEClem

This was fruitless as I knew it would be.

In general, I find that if you already know the answer, theres no point in asking the WAW the question. ESPECIALLY if it is related to R talks. All that making her say it does is hurt you.

Originally Posted By: BEClem

When we get home, son asks me before we get into the house if I can stay until he goes to bed. I tell him "you have to ask mom."

I follow her and tell her that I'm not going to stay and that it is fine.

I had no intention of staying so as not to not create turmoil. I tell my son I can't stay and call my daughter from upstairs to say hi and bye.

You already knew things were in a rough position between you and W. You know she isnt going to want you there. Why would you have your S put your W in the terrible position of having to break his heart or to allow you to stay? The entire episode could have been avoided if you just said you were busy.

Originally Posted By: BEClem
After that I say "so I'll call you tomorrow and we can talk?" (because the night prior we had agreed to talk about the possibility of trying. Or at least that is what I thought. Stupid me).

Wait, what? One of the biggest things that I took away from DR was about timing. If theres something that you want, you cant ask for it at a time when your spouse is going to say no. I used to ask my W to do the dishes as I was walking out the door and she was going back to bed in the morning. Of course she never did them! What did you REALLY think she was going to say at this moment? You already had her in a corner with the dinner thing. Timing, you know?

Originally Posted By: BEClem

I threw more truth darts at her and told her that this is typical of her. She does something that has consequences and then turns it around and blames it on me. I told her that anyone who is close to our situation that I have spoken to about it that I have ALWAYS told the full story which includes MY OWN ROLE IN IT. My depression. My withdrawal. My brief slip up with another woman. Because I OWN IT and am accountable for it.

I then tell her that she, on the other hand, takes no responsibility for anything. I tell her how I have been shunned by her friends who have known me for almost 15 years. How her mother ignored me the last time I saw her etc. I said that obviously she has shared one side of the story with these people because the perception they have is that BEC caused all of this.

Im not sure that these are "truth darts", BEC. It sounds a lot like you are blaming her for this. A wise person once told me that no matter how flat you make it, a pancake always has two sides. I think this is your problem here. You just CANT tell the whole story, because you dont KNOW her side. So while you think you are being fair, its still not a complete story. Just because you may not AGREE with her side of the story does not make it any less valid.


The rest of it [censored]. I wouldnt take too much stock in it though. She wanted to hurt you and knows how, so thats what she said.



In my opinion (which I know counts for nothing), a lot of this came on, because you couldnt leave well enough alone. A lot of your posting up there is how W did something and you reacted by keeping things going. Following her, calling her....trying to prove to her that you are right and she is not. As another wise person said, "do you want to be right or do you want to be married?"

BEClem #2593096 07/31/15 11:32 AM
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BEC,
Stop talking to your wife about the relationship! She says she's filed, then you know what you need to do. Do not share any info that you receive from your lawyer about what will happen. She will find that out when the negotiations begin.

Evidently she is wearing rose colored glasses if she thinks that things will remain the same, i.e., scheduling fun time for herself and ringing you up to do the babysitting. That's not how custody works. Schedules are usually set and you and she will need to adhere to them unless agreements can be met. You are not an after thought, nor the babysitter when she wants to go out.

About the money, she'll need to get a full time position. You will need to ask your lawyer about her comment that you could take care of the kids at night when she works. That may affect the child support. Also, your child support will be based on what is allowable for your state, not by what she wants.

As for the mud slinging, your family should not be brought into it, i.e., foreclosures, etc. That's not your problem. In fact, if the home she's living in is in foreclosure, she needs to worry about that. Now, about your brother, that may be an issue and if he's not suppose to be around children, then you will need to make sure that the children are not around him. I know you stated he was a registered sex offender, but still this is some cause for concern for the legal arena and possible custody arrangements.

As for the drive bys, you've got to cut that stuff out! I don't know how many times we've told you to leave things alone and yet, you continue to do them. I can't believe you drove by there twice and yes, it was very obvious. You've pushed and pushed and now she's filing for divorce, or so she says. Stop all discussions w/her except about the children's activities, when to visit and paying the bills. Leave everything else at the door because you are digging your hole deeper each and every time you speak to her.

This entire issue should be between you and your wife. Divorce is business and quite frankly, neither of you married your in-laws. Leave them out of the equation. As for the interactions between your wife and sister...well, they've gone down the tubes and I wouldn't be surprised if your sister asks her to move out if things continue the way they are.

Again, do not discuss any info you receive from your lawyer w/her. Don't try to tell her what life will be like. She will need to learn that on her own and whatever you do, don't agree to anything she puts in front of you w/o your lawyer reviewing it and that includes money, visitation, etc.

Live your life for YOU and your children. Leave your wife to wallow in her own mess.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2593099 07/31/15 11:52 AM
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BEC,
I also want to point out that your wife knows you very well and knows exactly what buttons to push. She's played you very well and who knows, she and her male friend may have made it a point to set you up to see if you would drive by his house while she was gone. You can't trust them to do the right things when they are irrational. Notice how you've been told that he will be joining them the next time they are out of town? They knew it would get back to you and you would go nutty once again.

Step back, leave them to their madness and above all else, detach even further. The more you react to what they say and do, the more you are become your own worse enemy. Get off the crazy train now before it's too late.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2593130 07/31/15 03:03 PM
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BE

I read your update last night on my phone. Given the fact I was blessed with caveman hands, and technology prefers people with fingers as opposed to all thumbs its impossible for me to really send out much of a reply/support.

I will not quote your novel and dissect it line by line ... job as always is a very wise and knowledgeable member here ... read and re-read what she says.

Here is the thing BE, you are an emotional guy ... this has done a number on you... I get it and I can relate. I do not need to point out the ways you have mishandled this... you know that, heck you knew but still could not help yourself. Just like a wayward .... wathcing the LBH around here for the past year I feel they have to hit rock bottom as well ... I do hope you are there and will start to do the little things that will help your situation out.

BE, you can not save your M ... you never could solo .. you need 2 people for that right? What you CAN do is stop making it worse, you can do that right now today. Just try to focus on not making anymore damage. Then we can focus on beginning to create some positive interactions, making small improvements. You have a long hard road ahead of you if you want a shot at this my friend ... you have to begin to actually do the work .. limit the backslides.

Hang in there ... its tough I know.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



CaliGuy #2593146 07/31/15 04:02 PM
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BE - my one thought when I first started reading your report was, "Please don't let him have driven to OM's house."

Basics BE, basics. The vets have been hammering this into you since day 1. You told Wonka the student was ready to learn. I'm not going to beat you up either, but you've got to take yourself back to DB kindergarten and hit the basics.

Breathe, detach, start taking care of you and disentangle yourself from the drama your W is masterfully manipulating you into. She's a tornado. You're walking right into her. How about standing on the side and letting her do what she's going to do and you doing what you need to do?!

Start listening to these Vets BE, they are vets for a reason. They know more than we do, that's why we're here. That's why we ask them for their counsel and advice. But if we ignore them they aren't going to want to keep telling us the same thing over and over, they'll help those who will accept the help.

Get strong. Get focused. Get yourself in the fight by stepping out of the fight BE. I know this is hard as hell, it is for every single one of us. It doesn't mean we have to wear long sleeves and stoke the flames while we're in it though.

Thinking of you and sending you strength.

PP


M 39 W 36
T5 M3
BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day
Served 9/15
D finalized 6/17
PigPen #2593389 08/01/15 01:06 PM
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Thank you everyone for reading my "War and Peace" novel (Wonka wink ) and for your insight and compassion.

I realize all of the mistakes I made during these interactions but it was so hard to not get caught up in the emotion of it all.

I did my best but obviously could have done better.


Last edited by BEClem; 08/01/15 01:08 PM.
BEClem #2593392 08/01/15 01:21 PM
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I feel bad for you, but even more for the children. frown They should not witness your arguments, it doesn't matter if you are calm, this is adult talk and should happen away from them, if at all. If she places herself near them, you need to stop the argument.

Why do you feel powerless to stop the discussion or take control of this kind of situation?

I don't know your whole story but wonder why she is cheating but you have moved out?


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2593396 08/01/15 01:58 PM
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I wanted to add - I have done the following my spouse around the house and it does not work. Once I stopped (thanks to DB), things got better. Now I walk away, and it is very effective. When someone walks away, it's usually because they need time to collect themselves and their emotions. Let them, otherwise it will get out of hand and things are said that will be regretted later.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2593801 08/03/15 02:16 AM
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Bec

Hope all is well, anything new on your stich?

Painter #2593818 08/03/15 03:01 AM
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Seriously guys. It is over. This divorce is happening. I don't want it. I don't want it for me. I don't want it for my two young children. But it is happening and there is nothing I can do or say to stop it.

I feel most for my children. They deserved more. They deserved an effort from their mother. But that is on her. Not on me.

There was a talk today. Wife had texted me to talk. Basically, there is nothing that is going to change her mind.

My poor little dude is only six and my little lady is only two. For nine months now they have been waiting for "Dad to come home".

I am heartbroken. I am thankful to everyone here for trying to help me. But it is a fruitless effort so far as saving my marriage or "busting" the divorce.

The sad part is is that my wife is making her decision based on such negative emotions. She "hates" me and she "knows that that will never change".

I have to move on with my life but I don't even know where to begin. I want to protect my children but I will not be able to protect them from this.

Her mind was made up long ago. It didn't matter what I did.

I feel like I'm rambling. I just don't know what to do with myself. For 9 months I have put every inch of my being into trying to save my family. To keep us together. And I failed.

Last edited by BEClem; 08/03/15 03:03 AM.
BEClem #2593819 08/03/15 03:07 AM
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BEC -
I feel your pain.

My only advice is this: the first step to saving your family has and will always be to save yourself.

From all of your posts for three months, your whole focus has been on W. Maybe now you will be able to really look inside and save YOU first.

You can do it. It's not easy, but you can.

BEClem #2593820 08/03/15 03:15 AM
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BE,

I am so sorry that you are at this point. It sounds like you have given up all hope.

You will be in my prayers and I hope that your agony subsides and gives you some peace. You have worked hard and I hope you don't think it was all for nothing. Time has a way of changing and calming our lives, I know you have given up on your M, but there are plenty of couples that get back together down the road after a divorce. My grandparents did. My aunt and uncle did.

I guess that all I will say to you is that it is over...but only because you have said it is over. You have given up. It never mattered what she was doing. Most of the LBS in this forum have D papers sitting in their house right now and haven't given up.
Love those kids with everything you have. Keep being the good man you are.

Make yourself happy


T14 M5
SD15,D8,S6,D3
"Not Happy" 12/11/14
EA discovered 2/11/15
MC started 2/17/15
MC "put on hold" 4/3/15
W IC started 4/5/15
PA admitted 5/7/15
WW moves out 5/8/15
WW gets her own place 7/15/15
Azzork #2593822 08/03/15 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: Azzork
BEC -
From all of your posts for three months, your whole focus has been on W. Maybe now you will be able to really look inside and save YOU first.


100% agreed.

My first 3 months was all about trying to save the M. That was impossible, because that hinges on another person I can't control. The only failure is to keep trying to control other people and avoid changing your own world, for YOU.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
HurtJef #2593825 08/03/15 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: HurtJef
BE,

I am so sorry that you are at this point. It sounds like you have given up all hope.

You will be in my prayers and I hope that your agony subsides and gives you some peace. You have worked hard and I hope you don't think it was all for nothing. Time has a way of changing and calming our lives, I know you have given up on your M, but there are plenty of couples that get back together down the road after a divorce. My grandparents did. My aunt and uncle did.

I guess that all I will say to you is that it is over...but only because you have said it is over. You have given up. It never mattered what she was doing. Most of the LBS in this forum have D papers sitting in their house right now and haven't given up.
Love those kids with everything you have. Keep being the good man you are.

Make yourself happy



I don't want to give up Jef. But what else am I to do?

BEClem #2593834 08/03/15 05:19 AM
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[/quote]

I don't want to give up Jef. But what else am I to do? [/quote]

Start working on you BE. Just for you and your kids. There's still plenty to do. Actually now is where your real work can start because you can actually focus on what matters - YOU.


M 39 W 36
T5 M3
BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day
Served 9/15
D finalized 6/17
BEClem #2593875 08/03/15 11:57 AM
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BEC,
Your life isn't over, so start pulling your big boy pants up, straighten that spine and put your thinking cap on. Yes, your marriage is over, per your wife, but that doesn't mean your relationship w/your children will end or the world is going to stop turning. Your life will continue as it has been for the last few months w/you seeing your children and yes, paying your wife child support and maybe some alimony until she can get a full time job. Nothing's changed. She's threatened divorce for a very long time, so she's filed or so she says.

Yes, divorce hurts and it's something none of us want to see happen, but in many cases it does and when it does, that gives us a wake up call that it's time to put the focus back on us and our children and leave the spouse alone totally. This is YOUR opportunity to now truly grow and learn about yourself and do the things that YOU need to do for YOU. One thing, you feel really down and out about the divorce...do not allow your heart and/or your emotions control how you feel about the financial end of the divorce. This is usually where many give away everything to the spouse...don't do it. You will need to be all businesslike now and ensure that you aren't going over and beyond what is expected of you in paying support to her. Listen to your lawyer. Do not continue to have talks w/her. This only justifies even more why she's doing what she's doing. As they say around here STFU!

Now, BEC, it's time to take care of YOU. Bandage your wounds and meet up w/your lawyer to discuss how to handle this situation.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2593906 08/03/15 03:13 PM
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BEClem Offline OP
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Job,

I certainly am not going to allow my emotions drive any financial decisions at all.

I have to protect myself and my children.

I have already spoken to my wife about splitting up finances and financial responsibilities and that she needs to start looking for a full time job.

My concern at the moment is living arrangements.

My parents are moving out of their house. I can't go with them. I also cannot afford two places. Wife had made it clear that if I come home she will leave, which she has no plan for and no idea where she would go. I'm not concerned about her. It's my kids. She will take them and displace them from our home.

I don't know what to do about this because I need a place to stay but I don't want to displace my kids. They don't even know yet and school starts soon for my son.

They don't deserve any more turmoil.

BEClem #2593908 08/03/15 03:16 PM
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I am so angry with her especially about the children. She is under the dillusion that they will be "fine".

She doesn't even recognize how much turmoil out S6 is in over these last nine months. She literally said she doesn't see that he is not handling all of this well.

EVERYONE else sees the problems he is having.

BEClem #2593911 08/03/15 03:22 PM
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Hi BEClem

Quote:

She doesn't even recognize how much turmoil out S6 is in over these last nine months. She literally said she doesn't see that he is not handling all of this well.


We all hear this. No point in arguing with her. Your S will tell her in his way and in his time. It's a shame for the kids, it really is.

My WW actually said to me that it was much better for our S10 to live at two separate addresses with her and I being apart. I wanted to point out to her that no, that isn't better for S10. It's what SHE wants not S10. But I just drank a STFU smoothie and let it go. There isn't any point reasoning with someone that thinks that way.


Me:43 Her:42
M:14
S:9
EA started 2014/03 (or there abouts)
PA started 2014/05/30
BD:2014/11/05
I left 2015/10/01
I returned 2015/05/02
She left 2015/06/10
OM still on the go.
NDY #2593913 08/03/15 03:38 PM
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Its a tough spot. BE ... just own that the choices she is making, they are hers ... granted these all impact those around her, herself, you, the kids ... and yeah it stinks. Again .... you can not crawl up into her head, push buttons and get her to think just as you would have her do. I recall the urge I had to hold her head and just download my clear logic into her so she could see what she truly was doing, she was in a total fog ... but ya know what? ... so was I.

This is where that detach thing we have been screaming at you for months needs to start sinking in ... your life is now in full tilt chaos. Those same kids you are concerned about ... well BE they need you now more than ever, they need a father who will stand out on the top deck and continue to sail this ship trapped in a storm safely to shore .... your W is sailing her own ship .. maybe she hits the rocks .. maybe she is lost at sea .. maybe she navigates to the same place you need to go ... who knows, its this critical point BE that you captain your own ship. Make sure she is sea worthy ... its a rough ride ... try to start small, if it does not concern your ship ... let it go.

This is the tough part ... but there are clearer skies ahead I assure you.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



BEClem #2594118 08/04/15 02:05 AM
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Quote:
The sad part is is that my wife is making her decision based on such negative emotions. She "hates" me and she "knows that that will never change".


When you planned your marriage, she loved you and knew that would never change. Feelings ebb and flow, and the ones that grow are the ones you feed.

Quote:
It's my kids. She will take them and displace them from our home.


Are you sure she can do that? Have you talked to a lawyer about it?


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2594131 08/04/15 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Painter
Quote:
The sad part is is that my wife is making her decision based on such negative emotions. She "hates" me and she "knows that that will never change".


When you planned your marriage, she loved you and knew that would never change. Feelings ebb and flow, and the ones that grow are the ones you feed.

Quote:
It's my kids. She will take them and displace them from our home.




Are you sure she can do that? Have you talked to a lawyer about it?


Painter. Us DBers understand that feelings ebb and flow. We are the one's who look inward and realize that feelings can change both ways and that dynamics of relationships can change many times.

So far as your question about my children. Yes, I have a lawyer (a very good one who is a family friend, a founding member of his firm, and has been practicing family law for over 30 years) and there is nothing legally I could do to prevent her from leaving the house and taking the children. The only thing she is legally prevented from doing would be to take them out of state. That she cannot do.

BEClem #2594141 08/04/15 02:45 AM
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Little update for everyone. I had an IC session today. I really like my counselor. She is wonderful. We talked about the stages of grief I must work through, the transition period and eventually getting to my new normal. We talked about how I have to let my W go. Let her walk her own path and live with the consequences of her choices. That that is on her. Not on me.

So much of what she is working on with me is similar to what we discuss here on the boards. Being the stable and steady rock for my children and myself. Being the one who acts logically and not emotionally.

My C clearly sees that my W is acting on pure emotion and negativity and is not thinking clearly at all. But similar to what we discuss here in terms of detachment, she tells me that that is her burden to bare. Not mine. And that I need to work to be the mature and stable one in order to protect both myself and my kids.

I made the decision that I will not be moving back home because since my W in her emotional state made it clear she would leave (without any plan mind you) I will not have my young children go through that. I called my W today and told her very calmly and to the point that I will not be moving back home for this very reason. I made it clear to her that since she would decide to displace them that I wanted no part of that upheaval for them. Not for her. But for them.

I also reiterated to her that she needs to start looking for work now so we can split finances and have shared financial responsibility once she starts working because I cannot afford to pay for two households. I have made it clear that this needs to happen as soon as possible, not after the D.

I am proud of this decision because it is putting my children's needs above my own and not allowing her to take some selfish action that would have a major negative impact on a six year old little boy a few weeks before he starts second grade and a two year old little girl.

I am also proud of myself for how I handled going over and seeing my children tonight. It was only for about an hour or so but my focus was 100% upon them. I literally did not speak to or even look at my W at all.

I walked in. She said she was going to go take a shower and read upstairs. So I spent time with the kids reading stories downstairs for about an hour. Then, without even asking my W if she wanted me to or not, gave the children their bath and put them both to bed. W stayed in her (our former) room the entire time. Once I had the kids tucked in for the night I did not even pop my head in to say goodbye to my Wife. I just went downstairs, locked the door and left.

I have never in 9 months done what I did tonight. And it wasn't done in a "I'm mad at you and I'm going to ignore you" fashion. I just went about my business as dad and left.

BEClem #2594307 08/04/15 05:13 PM
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Did I make the right decision concerning my house?

BEClem #2594330 08/04/15 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: BEClem
I made the decision that I will not be moving back home because since my W in her emotional state made it clear she would leave (without any plan mind you) I will not have my young children go through that.

Is that really the best decision for your kids?

Leaving them with her?

Not sure I agree with that.
And I am not sure I agree that it is in their best interest.


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Cadet #2594334 08/04/15 06:00 PM
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What do you think I should do Cadet?

I mean, I have not one bad word to say about her as a mother. She is a great mom.

But she will bolt with them if I move back home. And that effects them.

What do you think? What makes you think it's not a good decision?

BEClem #2594341 08/04/15 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: BEClem
But she will bolt with them if I move back home. And that effects them.

What do you think? What makes you think it's not a good decision?

Kids need stable moms and dads.
Would it still be a good decision if she was threatening their health and well being or abusing them?

You are giving up your parental rights and that can be used against you in court.
You have abandoned your children in the eyes of most courts.
Have you consulted with a lawyer about this decision?

I would never want to put young children in harms way and you could potentially be doing this with no supervision.

Don't you want to fight for custody of your children?

Don't you think that MOM's think that a strong DAD is a very attractive feature?


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BEClem #2594344 08/04/15 06:13 PM
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Quote:
I mean, I have not one bad word to say about her as a mother. She is a great mom.

But she will bolt with them if I move back home. And that effects them.

What do you think? What makes you think it's not a good decision?


JMHO, but if she would bolt with two small children without any plan as to how to take care for them.....then I would think she's not very stable, mother or not. The only good reason a woman would take off running with two little kids were if they were in danger at home.

If you don't want to move back for the reason you said, then you need to get to busy and get full custody of your kids. Telling your W why you have decided not to move home, has handed her a tool that she will hold over your head from now on.

Although you may be a very upfront sort of man, you need to realize that there are some things that you cannot afford to share with a WW. She will turn it on you and use for her advantage.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
BEClem #2594358 08/04/15 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: BEClem
It's over everyone. Wife told me she filed for divorce. There is no way she is changing her mind. It's over.


WAS's always speak in absolutes. There's no going back. We're done forever. You'll never change. You always did this. You always do that. Remember Sandi's rules- "Do not believe anything they say and 50% of what they do. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared." How should you respond? That's in Sandi's rules too. "Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject." "Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude." "Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!" "Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do."

Quote:
I'm really drained and tired.


Of course you are, you've been through a lot! Just take a deep breath, it's not over until YOU decide it's over. A guy I work with is engaged to his ex wife right now. It's been 6 years since they got divorced. They are more madly in love now then ever before. Back then she told him all the same things you're hearing now!

Quote:
She expects the kids to live with her fulltime and the things she said she would do if I fought her on it were despicable.


As the others have said, it's time to lawyer up. DB'ing is a separate issue from custody of your kids, if you have to fight for custody then do so, and it sounds like you do. She has no right to dictate the terms of visitation to you.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Cadet #2594362 08/04/15 07:17 PM
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I have consulted with my Lawyer about moving back home. I am legally safe concerning abandonment in that in the eyes of the law I have not and am not abandoning them. So that will not be a legal issue for me concerning custody.

There is also nothing I can legally do to stop her from leaving with the kids. Unless she tried to take them out of state. That she cannot do.

Yes. I do want to fight for custody of my children. According to my Wife, what she will be asking for is joint legal custody but that she will be the custodial parent which means the kids will live with her nad I will have visitation.

That I do not want. This is her divorce. Not mine. Not the kids'. I want 50/50 legal and custodial.

She will fight me tooth and nail on that.

So far as a Mom thinking that a strong Dad is attractive: Of course I believe that. But my W doesn't care Cadet. She is so far gone that I do not believe there is anything I can do or be that will reattract her.

I'm sure you recall from my sitch the period of depression I went through for a number of years where I was very withdrawn. I wasn't myself. I wasn't the husband I had been or the father.

All of that is different now. I have heard over and over again on these boards about putting in the work on myself. Here is the thing. I have put in the work. I have worked my butt off these last 9 months.

I am no longer depressed. I am back to myself. I am a great father.

But my W. She is done. She said the other day that none of that matters. She hates me for what I went through (depression) and the fact that I am back to myself and am a great father (which she acknowledges) doesn't make any difference to her.

So I think that I am well beyond re-attracting her. It would take a miracle.

Long ago, you had said that you thought my Wife was depressed. I know she is depressed. I think her issues go well beyond depression. But I can't change that..

Those are her issues.

I mean, her thought processes are't even logical. I even asked her that if I had to come home for a period of time until we get more financially settled, she starts working, I save enough money for my own place etc that she would still just uproot the children? She said yes. I asked her if she thought that was the right thing to do for them? She said no. So I asked her why she would do that then. Her answer "because I cannot live with you. I hate you".

She is gone.

sandi2 #2594366 08/04/15 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
I mean, I have not one bad word to say about her as a mother. She is a great mom.

But she will bolt with them if I move back home. And that effects them.

What do you think? What makes you think it's not a good decision?


JMHO, but if she would bolt with two small children without any plan as to how to take care for them.....then I would think she's not very stable, mother or not. The only good reason a woman would take off running with two little kids were if they were in danger at home.

If you don't want to move back for the reason you said, then you need to get to busy and get full custody of your kids. Telling your W why you have decided not to move home, has handed her a tool that she will hold over your head from now on.

Although you may be a very upfront sort of man, you need to realize that there are some things that you cannot afford to share with a WW. She will turn it on you and use for her advantage.



Yes Ma'am. You are spot on Sandi. My wife is NOT stable. I have known this for years. Molested by her brother as a child. Trust issues. Intimacy issues. Controlling. Runs from problems instead of facing them.

And now "hates" me because I went through a few years of depression that I now have under control.

You are right Sandi, I am a very upfront man. I am a good man. Not perfect. Far from it. I just don't know what to do at this point.

There is no good reason for her to bolt. There is no abuse or anything of that nature. At all.

All she ever said while I was going through my issues was that she wanted her husband back. Well, here I am. I am myself again. I am a great father and my kids love me with everything. And she hates me.

So far as her being unstable, I agree and have known that for a long time. I even tried to help her with it about 10 years ago and she even holds that against me now. Telling me that she was over what had happened to her and that I was the one who made it an issue. But that just isn't true. She was the one who had told me many times in our marriage that the reason she struggled with sex and intimacy was because of what happened to her. She doesn't even remember saying those things to me now.

In addition she has shown unstable behaviors in handling this entire situation. I mean, she filed for divorce without even thinking through about finding a job, where will she live, where will I live etc.

Part of me wonders if she even did file. She claims she did so about two weeks ago before her and the kids took a trip to see her folks. I still have not received anything yet. When I asked her what day it was that she filed she said she couldn't remember.

It literally is like dealing with a crazy person who thinks that I am the crazy one.

BEClem #2594371 08/04/15 07:38 PM
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And today I get this conversation. I text her about seeing the kids this evening. She tells me she has plans and there will be a babysitter at the house.

So I call her. Not to harp on her going out but to discuss why is she spending $60 on a babysitter and going out to a concert with her cousin? We discussed extensively last week how if she is filing for divorce than things need to change.

She needs to start working. We have to split finances. Figure out the practicalities and the reality of what this really means.

Her initial reaction: "I don't care what you say. I am going".

It's like the reaction of a child. I had to explain to her that it wasn't about going out. It was about that the life she had is now over. If she does not want me as her husband than it is time for things to change now and for her to face the reality of all of this. I cannot afford to support two households. I need to be able to get on my feet so I can provide a safe and stable environment for our children when they are with me etc.

And her going out and spending money on a babysitter is irresponsible at this point.

BEClem #2594373 08/04/15 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: BEClem
And her going out and spending money on a babysitter is irresponsible at this point.

And she is thinking why is it your job to tell her that?


Me-70, D37,S36
Cadet #2594376 08/04/15 08:05 PM
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BE,


Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: BEClem
And her going out and spending money on a babysitter is irresponsible at this point.

And she is thinking why is it your job to tell her that?


You are not her father. Stop trying control her actions or "telling" her what to do.

We discussed extensively last week how if she is filing for divorce than things need to change.

Things will change. You cannot just force it or prod it along. Leave it well alone and let W do the heavy lifting when it comes to filing for D. It is all on her.

I had to explain to her that it wasn't about going out. It was about that the life she had is now over.

It is not your job to "teach" her those things. Lady Karma will take care of it if and when you DO get out of your own way. Life has a way of teaching the WASes things on the other side and they do come to some realizations on their own. Let them learn it on their own and experience it for themselves.

If she does not want me as her husband than it is time for things to change now and for her to face the reality of all of this.

Stop it. Life will teach her life lessons. It is NOT your job to show W the "reality" of her situation. Let her go and let her encounter brick walls...let her fall down...let her figure out her own chit without you being in her face or ear.

I need to be able to get on my feet so I can provide a safe and stable environment for our children when they are with me etc.

You are the only person that you can control...not W, not the Easter Bunny, not the gnome in your garden. How do you plan to get on your feet? What actions can you take to achieve that goal?

And her going out and spending money on a babysitter is irresponsible at this point.

I'd say that's one of the most responsible things W has done in a while...getting a real babysitter to watch the kids. Kudos to her!

Wonka #2594390 08/04/15 08:19 PM
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BE. Listen to wonka and cadet. They speak sense. Step back.


Me:43 Her:42
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S:9
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PA started 2014/05/30
BD:2014/11/05
I left 2015/10/01
I returned 2015/05/02
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How can you say that spending money on a babysitter is responsible?

She does not work. This is money that should be going toward the household. Bills etc.

How is that responsible Wonka? It is a continuation of fantasy land where BEC pays for everything and I go about my business as stay at home mom and don't work etc.

Am I missing something here?

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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: BEClem
And her going out and spending money on a babysitter is irresponsible at this point.

And she is thinking why is it your job to tell her that?


Because she does not generate income.

BEClem #2594396 08/04/15 08:24 PM
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Look. Everything else I get but how in the world is it not irresponsible of her at this point in time to be going out and spending money the I make when it is now time for things to change?

I mean seriously. What am I missing here?

BEClem #2594397 08/04/15 08:25 PM
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Are you serious, BE?

Would you rather that W abandoned the kids and have them fend for themselves??

I think you are just annoyed that money is going to a babysitter than other areas that you deem more important according to your own values/expectations. I still stand by the fact that W did the right and responsible thing in getting a babysitter.

Count your blessings, BE. There have been too many horror stories here and IRL of parents abandoning their kids while they go off partying.

Yeah, you are missing the compassion chip here....and give thanks to God that a babysitter was available and able to watch YOUR kids.

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BeClem, I think you need to take a step back here. You are trying to get your W to wake up and realise a whole bunch of things in a short period of time. And you are the last person she will listen to at this point. It wont help your sitch and she will think of you as the enemy.

I think she needs to realise this stuff in her own time. You can't MAKE her go get a job. But she may realise she HAS to once you guys truly split finances if this is how things go.

Deep breath, step back, reflect and start processing the good advice that well-meaning posters are giving you.

Last edited by Toots; 08/04/15 08:30 PM.

T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
BEClem #2594400 08/04/15 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: BEClem
Look. Everything else I get but how in the world is it not irresponsible of her at this point in time to be going out and spending money the I make when it is now time for things to change?

I mean seriously. What am I missing here?



Whoa!!! It is all about YOU and your timeline.

Get out of your own ass. Your money was spent on the kids. They benefited from the services of a reliable babysitter who kept them fed, safe, and entertained.

Pay attention....

You are screaming "MY MONEY" when it's family money when it comes to the kids.

Get out of your on ass...you need to calm the f@ck down about this. This is small potatoes.

I wonder how you will handle it when bigger issues come down the pike.

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I would never worry about my children being abandoned by her to fend for themselves. That is not the type of person my W is.

And other areas I "deem" more important? You mean like rent? Gas? Electric? etc....

I'm just not following your logic. If I have been fired as her husband, and I am the one who pays for everything, is it my responsibility to pay for her social life?

I'm not being sarcastic. I'm being serious.

And what does "missing the compassion chip" mean?

BEClem #2594404 08/04/15 08:41 PM
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BE,

I would never worry about my children being abandoned by her to fend for themselves. That is not the type of person my W is.

Don't be too cocky or confident of this. When there's a WAW or WW, their heads get seriously messed up and do really terrible things to the children.

And other areas I "deem" more important? You mean like rent? Gas? Electric? etc....

So let me see if I understand you right. You think that W should stay home ALL THE time and be a prisoner in her own home 365 days of the year because gas, electric, water, etc "needs" to be paid.

Frankly $60.00 is a piddling amount of money on a babysitter. You are all twisted up over this when many other DBer's have had their WAW plunder thousands of dollars out of their joint accounts.

You are lucky.

I think it all comes to being too "controlling" here and your W rightfully sees through that. You need to step back and chose your battles wisely.

You are not at the moment. You're being a hothead fighting over such small potatoes.

What I mean by missing the compassion chip is that you are not looking at the heart of the babysitter-gate:

Your own babies were well cared for by a responsible babysitter.

If I were you, I'd thank God for the good sense that W was able to wrangle a babysitter to watch over my kiddos. The alternative......

I am done with this subject. If you are unable to see the bigger picture, then I worry about you and your M's survival.

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Don't try to rush the consequences for her, they will come. Remember actions over words,you still talk too much to her. You can't just tell her how things will work. You can't lecture her, she sees it as control still. After you split the finances in the future she will see herself how life will work. It does nothing if you TELL her how life will be and the consequences. She will just blame you when they come and won't see they were her own role. Truth darts can come much later when she places the blame for those consequences back on you.


Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
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BE. You are getting really good advice here. I can sense you are bouncing off the walls. Listen to what is being said by people who know. Step back. Stop pushing. Relax and calm down. These people are advising you because they are right. In the large scheme of things is your W getting a Baby sitter such a big deal or is it more about what she may be up to while she's out?


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Wonka #2594412 08/04/15 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Wonka
BE,

I would never worry about my children being abandoned by her to fend for themselves. That is not the type of person my W is.

Don't be too cocky or confident of this. When there's a WAW or WW, their heads get seriously messed up and do really terrible things to the children.

And other areas I "deem" more important? You mean like rent? Gas? Electric? etc....

So let me see if I understand you right. You think that W should stay home ALL THE time and be a prisoner in her own home 365 days of the year because gas, electric, water, etc "needs" to be paid.

Frankly $60.00 is a piddling amount of money on a babysitter. You are all twisted up over this when many other DBer's have had their WAW plunder thousands of dollars out of their joint accounts.

You are lucky.

I think it all comes to being too "controlling" here and your W rightfully sees through that. You need to step back and chose your battles wisely.

You are not at the moment. You're being a hothead fighting over such small potatoes.

What I mean by missing the compassion chip is that you are not looking at the heart of the babysitter-gate:

Your own babies were well cared for by a responsible babysitter.

If I were you, I'd thank God for the good sense that W was able to wrangle a babysitter to watch over my kiddos. The alternative......

I am done with this subject. If you are unable to see the bigger picture, then I worry about you and your M's survival.



This response I am on board with. This makes more sense to me. You are right, Wonka. I am being a hothead on a small issue and I shouldn't be.

I'm just so damn frustrated about everything and at my wits end.

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"I'm just so damn frustrated about everything and at my wits end"

Then it may be best to shift your focus off your W and ask yourself:

How can I manage this frustration? Avoid doing things which I may regret?

What do I need to keep going when I feel at my wits end?


T 13 M 7
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SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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[/quote]

I'm just so damn frustrated about everything and at my wits end. [/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am sure that your W realizes this as well and she just keeps feeding you the bait. Why would she want to stick around for BEC 1.0?? You are not detached at all and showing so much anger, impatience, etc. I realize that we all vent on the forum, but as loud and clear as it is on here, some of that has to be seen and felt by your W as well.


Me: 42 H: 40
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H moved out - 8/2015
I filed - 8/2015
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BEC,
I've been reading along and shaking my head at your behavior. Yes, you are angry and frustrated and you need to get those emotions out and then get yourself under control. As I have, as well as others, have pointed out, you can't control her. You are separated and what she does in her house is her business, just as what you do at your place is your business.

If I am interpreting your postings correctly, and if I'm wrong, please correct me, but you have a joint account or some such where the money is kept for the bills and she's been paying them. I also vaguely remember that she's doing some part time work too. So, if she's doing some part time work, who is to say that she's not using that money to pay the sitter? Who is to say that she wasn't advised by her lawyer to start getting a sitter, i.e., rather than having you there all of the time in her space snooping and questioning what she's doing and where she's going? Quite frankly, if I had been in her shoes, I would have done the same darn thing and got a sitter. You come across as a nice guy on here, but you also come across as a controller and want things all of your way. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way in a relationship and more so when you are separated and divorced. I imagine that when you are divorced, she'll be getting a sitter quite often because she doesn't want you around in her space and knowing what she's doing and when she's doing it and w/whom, if anyone.

Now, on to what I want to ask you...how many times have the posters told you not to discuss the relationship, the separation, etc.? How many times in the last few days have we advised you not to have conversations about what may go down w/a divorce? I can answer that for you...plenty of times. You can't seem to STFU and that's gotten you into trouble time and time again. Now, I'm going to remind you one more time...STOP TRYING TO TELL HER WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF HER ACTIONS WILL BE IF A DIVORCE TAKES PLACE. You are not her father nor an authority figure in her life. YOU ARE SEPARATED HEADING FOR DIVORCE! The consequences of her actions are hers to learn and own. Take care of your side of the street.

Your main concerns right now are finding a place to live, your children and yes, listening to your IC and your lawyer. From where I'm sitting, you just blew everything off from your recent IC appointment. Learn to control those emotions and not run off at the mouth w/her. Find an outlet to take those frustrations out on because if you don't, she'll use your emotional state against you and call it mental and verbal abuse. STEP WAY, WAY BACK AND STFU!

I ran across a quote today that I want to leave w/you. It is by Pema Chodron:

"nothing ever goes away until it has taught us what we need to know
…nothing ever really attacks us except our own confusion. perhaps there is no solid obstacle except our own need to protect ourselves from being touched. maybe the only enemy is that we don’t like the way reality is now and therefore wish it would go away fast. but what we find as practitioners is that nothing ever goes away until it has taught us what we need to know. if we run a hundred miles an hour to the other end of the continent in order to get away from the obstacle, we find the very same problem waiting for us when we arrive. it just keeps returning with new names, forms, manifestations until we learn whatever it has to teach us about where we are separating ourselves from reality, how we are pulling back instead of opening up, closing down instead of allowing ourselves to experience fully whatever we encounter, without hesitating or retreating into ourselves.”

Your teachers have been trying to advise you on what you need to be doing and yet, the advice has fallen by the wayside time and time again. Please LISTEN to what we are telling you. Many of us have been down the road you are traveling and we would not give you incorrect advice.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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I have nothing to add BE, other than to comment at how brilliant that quote is. So much truth in there. I got to see Pema speak a few months ago and the attention she was able to put forth when someone else was speaking was incredible. You knew she was on another level but one born from a lifetime of hard work.

Hearing Pema say that looking back over her life - it was the hardest times, the times when she would have given anything to not be there any more, that those were the times in hindsight that were the most valuable since they were the ones that taught her the most. That brought me to my knees.

Sorry to hijack BE's 2x4'ing.


M 39 W 36
T5 M3
BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day
Served 9/15
D finalized 6/17
BEClem #2594478 08/04/15 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: BEClem
Originally Posted By: Painter
Quote:
The sad part is is that my wife is making her decision based on such negative emotions. She "hates" me and she "knows that that will never change".


When you planned your marriage, she loved you and knew that would never change. Feelings ebb and flow, and the ones that grow are the ones you feed.

Quote:
It's my kids. She will take them and displace them from our home.




Are you sure she can do that? Have you talked to a lawyer about it?


Painter. Us DBers understand that feelings ebb and flow. We are the one's who look inward and realize that feelings can change both ways and that dynamics of relationships can change many times.

So far as your question about my children. Yes, I have a lawyer (a very good one who is a family friend, a founding member of his firm, and has been practicing family law for over 30 years) and there is nothing legally I could do to prevent her from leaving the house and taking the children. The only thing she is legally prevented from doing would be to take them out of state. That she cannot do.


BEClem, on the shifting emotions, I was commiserating and trying to be supportive of you, sorry if I didn't express myself very well.

On the children - I am sorry that you are living in a state that sort of supports mercenary behavior from parents. But does that mean that there's also nothing she can do to stop you from taking the children?

Here's what I would focus on, based on what I've seen in family courts across the country over the years:

Think about what the judge will look at when you want custody. They will look at the best interest of the children when they award primary. Some of the factors will most likely be:

- who lives in the family home with the children (that will be a plus for that parent)
- if that is also the address on file with the school, it will be seen as the school-aged children's primary home
- what has the arrangement been the last 6 months before the court date (it will be regarded as something you accepted implicitly and it will be hard to argue for another arrangement unless you have repeatedly and clearly stated that you disagree with the way it was)
- who is more willing to facilitate visitation and share information with the other parent (basically, who plays nicer and is more willing to share)
- who can financially take better care of them
- who is more stable

This may actually mean that you moving back in and her leaving with the kids can work to your benefit when it comes time for a judge to decide how the next 16 years are going to look. Make sure you document every attempt from her to block you from time with the children, whether it is overt or just evasive. The babysitter issue can be taken care of with a right of first refusal clause.

Your attorney should have all of these factors for you to consider, and know which ones are more weighted in your local family court.

But to sum it up: I would not leave the family home, I would not accept without very clear and repeated objection that she has taken possession of the children.

Also - it sounds like you need to move ahead on the financial separation, because I agree it is very inappropriate of you to bring up how she spends money on a babysitter, and she will resent you further.

One poster said that she will blame you if you try to predict what will happen and it comes to be, instead of learning it herself. That is very good advice! WAH actually claimed that I had in fact created an illness in another person by recognizing some symptoms and suggested what it could be and recommended going to a doc to figure it out for certain. There is really no end to what we are capable of when it comes to negative powers, it seems.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2594494 08/05/15 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: Painter
Originally Posted By: BEClem
Originally Posted By: Painter
Quote:
The sad part is is that my wife is making her decision based on such negative emotions. She "hates" me and she "knows that that will never change".


When you planned your marriage, she loved you and knew that would never change. Feelings ebb and flow, and the ones that grow are the ones you feed.

Quote:
It's my kids. She will take them and displace them from our home.




Are you sure she can do that? Have you talked to a lawyer about it?


Painter. Us DBers understand that feelings ebb and flow. We are the one's who look inward and realize that feelings can change both ways and that dynamics of relationships can change many times.

So far as your question about my children. Yes, I have a lawyer (a very good one who is a family friend, a founding member of his firm, and has been practicing family law for over 30 years) and there is nothing legally I could do to prevent her from leaving the house and taking the children. The only thing she is legally prevented from doing would be to take them out of state. That she cannot do.


BEClem, on the shifting emotions, I was commiserating and trying to be supportive of you, sorry if I didn't express myself very well.

On the children - I am sorry that you are living in a state that sort of supports mercenary behavior from parents. But does that mean that there's also nothing she can do to stop you from taking the children?

Here's what I would focus on, based on what I've seen in family courts across the country over the years:

Think about what the judge will look at when you want custody. They will look at the best interest of the children when they award primary. Some of the factors will most likely be:

- who lives in the family home with the children (that will be a plus for that parent)
- if that is also the address on file with the school, it will be seen as the school-aged children's primary home
- what has the arrangement been the last 6 months before the court date (it will be regarded as something you accepted implicitly and it will be hard to argue for another arrangement unless you have repeatedly and clearly stated that you disagree with the way it was)
- who is more willing to facilitate visitation and share information with the other parent (basically, who plays nicer and is more willing to share)
- who can financially take better care of them
- who is more stable

This may actually mean that you moving back in and her leaving with the kids can work to your benefit when it comes time for a judge to decide how the next 16 years are going to look. Make sure you document every attempt from her to block you from time with the children, whether it is overt or just evasive. The babysitter issue can be taken care of with a right of first refusal clause.

Your attorney should have all of these factors for you to consider, and know which ones are more weighted in your local family court.

But to sum it up: I would not leave the family home, I would not accept without very clear and repeated objection that she has taken possession of the children.

Also - it sounds like you need to move ahead on the financial separation, because I agree it is very inappropriate of you to bring up how she spends money on a babysitter, and she will resent you further.

One poster said that she will blame you if you try to predict what will happen and it comes to be, instead of learning it herself. That is very good advice! WAH actually claimed that I had in fact created an illness in another person by recognizing some symptoms and suggested what it could be and recommended going to a doc to figure it out for certain. There is really no end to what we are capable of when it comes to negative powers, it seems.


Painter, and anyone else. Walk me through some of these legal issues. I have made it clear from day one that I never wanted to leave the home and have made it clear that I want to return.

I admit to everyone who 2 x 4d me: My behavior was impulsive.

But to address a few things that were brought up. Both Sandi and Cadet felt I should move back into the home.

Job, you had asked about finances and referred to the house as her house. Yes, she babysits my cousin's daughter during the week and generates about 500 per month from that. It is the only income she has generated the last 7 years and has only been doing it for about 8 months or so. I work full time, am living with my parents and have continued to pay for everything.

The house (our house) belongs to my sister from whom we rent it. My name is on the lease. From a legal standpoint, direct from my Lawyer, it is not her house and I have every legal right to return there should I choose.

Point being is this: It is not her house persay. It is our house and from a legal standpoint, it is my house.

But, and this gets back to the point that Sandi and Cadet made earlier, she has clearly stated that she will leave, with the children, if I return. Where she would go she has no idea.

I realize I may have made a mountain out of a molehill with the babysitter and her going out. But she filed (or so she says) two weeks ago. We immediately discussed splitting finances, her going back to work etc. So we can start SHARING financial responsibility. No, I do not expect her to be a "prisoner" and stay home all of the time. But that is the thing. For 9 months now she has gone out as often as she wanted to. Not once this whole entire time have I given her an issue with her going out. I handed over every dime I made. But something has to give now doesn't it?


I am asking for some discussion on the practicalities.

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Has your L gone over the support calculations with you? That's the place to start. You don't have to hand over every dime you make, you can pay the necessary bills and make sure the kids' needs are met, according to support guidelines for your state.

But she's not going to now step up and do what you think she should do. Your expectations are going to cause you disappointment. She is not cooperating, and you giving her all your money is not going to make her change.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2594502 08/05/15 01:06 AM
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BE the only thing I can offer to you is that my husband filed on a Monday and I was served by the courts that Thursday. If she filed and it has been two weeks I would say she probably didn't file. It is of public knowledge so you could log-in to the court system and see if she filed for divorce.


Me:33 H:36
T:13 years
M:10 years
S4
Separated 05/15
H Filed 06/15
Painter #2594505 08/05/15 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: Painter
Has your L gone over the support calculations with you? That's the place to start. You don't have to hand over every dime you make, you can pay the necessary bills and make sure the kids' needs are met, according to support guidelines for your state.

But she's not going to now step up and do what you think she should do. Your expectations are going to cause you disappointment. She is not cooperating, and you giving her all your money is not going to make her change.


Yes. I have been educated on the calculations and how they will work.

Now that she has filed, and has made it clear to me that she will leave our house with our kids if I move back home (even just as a temporary measure until we can both get on our feet) I cannot just continue to hand over every dime I make.

Obviously, I would continue to pay all of the bills until she is able to start contributing to them. But I have to start setting aside money for my children and for myself.

I am really unsure of what to do about my house. My Lawyer has told me there is nothing I can do to legally stop her from taking the children out of the home. But she doesn't have many options as to where she would go.

I do not want to do that to my kids (and I know it wouldn't be me doing it, it would be her).

They're little: 6 year old son and 2 year old daughter. School starts up again for my son in a few weeks. It would be complete turmoil and upheaval for them.

They don't even know about my wife's intentions yet. She hasn't told them. They still think "Dad is coming home" at some point.

I'm just at a loss.

ep0215 #2594506 08/05/15 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: ep0215
BE the only thing I can offer to you is that my husband filed on a Monday and I was served by the courts that Thursday. If she filed and it has been two weeks I would say she probably didn't file. It is of public knowledge so you could log-in to the court system and see if she filed for divorce.


Now this is very interesting. Do you think she did not file and is just saying it?

If it is public record would I go to a state website or county?

How could I find out?

BEClem #2594507 08/05/15 01:16 AM
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I'm pretty sure you can check for things filed in your county court. There should be a section for Family cases, I think. You should be able to search by claimant, I would think.

BEClem #2594510 08/05/15 01:34 AM
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BEC,
You need to calm down and breathe. We are not the enemy here. You need to choose your battles wisely. We can give you advice, but the bottom line is this, you need to listen to your lawyer, read up on the laws for your particular state and go from there. Sure we all can say to do this or that, but it boils down to what your lawyer tells you that you are allowed to do or not do in your state.

I am going to leave you w/some pearls of wisdom. From this day forward, be careful what you say to your wife. Anything you say can be turned around and used against you. Divorce is a business deal and one that usually has to be worked out w/lawyers. Both of you are emotional, angry and frustrated and trying to have a rational conversation w/her isn't going to happen because she sees you as trying to tell her what she can and can't do, as well as trying to control her life. What she feels right now towards you are her feelings and there's nothing you can do to change them. Bottom line, you have to focus on you, what you need to do to keep your head above water and how to ensure that your children are okay.

I don't have any additional advice to give to you at this time.

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BE

Been reading up on you and could not post the past day or so.

Yeah buddy ... you really get yourself spinning don't ya? I hope you get where I am coming from, not trying to bash you not attack, but just reading you .... its dripping with emotion.

What do you really want out of all this BE?

What are you willing to do?

I ask because the answers to those 2 questions really are the foundation on how to figure out a plan to get you there ... REGARDLESS of your W and your M at this point because you have to realize that old M and that old W are not an option for you right now .. .I know that stings like a B but its the truth and the quicker you figure out YOU ... the quicker you can start doing things to improve YOUR situation.

Start figuring out who you want BEC 2.0 to be ... because that insecure, controlling stalker BEC 1.0 needs to be reprogrammed with a quickness, I do hope you see that ... start small ... all changes are not over night and its good to start small.

The first change I did while working on Cali 2.0 ... very first change. I made my bed every morning, stupid and small change that impacted no one but me. But I did it ... while I did it I reminded myself of who I was working at becoming .. EVERY DAMN DAY first thing in the morning. Over time, more changes, more reminders ... long uphill walk but I did it and continue to do it.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



BEClem #2594708 08/05/15 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: BEClem

And what does "missing the compassion chip" mean?


What Wonka means (and I agree) is that in reading your posts it sounds like you have zero compassion for your W and what she is going through. Your attitude is you are the victim and she is a careless bully. And I totally get it, I went through that phase post-BD too. But if you ever hope to rebuild your M, you have got to get past the anger and bitterness and start to have some compassion towards your W. Do you think arguing with her about a babysitting fee is advancing your situation? What if you had said "W, money is short but I know you're going through a lot and could use some away time, so find a babysitter and I'll cover the costs. Get out and enjoy yourself a little." What would THAT have made your W think? How would THAT have altered the mood of the conversation? Your actions are reinforcing her feelings about why she left, she's just thinking "yup, same old controlling, manipulating H." So CHANGE YOUR ACTIONS. Have compassion. Be sympathetic. It's all over Sandi's rules, these forums and the DB book. You've got to embrace those things if you ever want to save your M.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
CaliGuy #2594847 08/05/15 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
BE

Been reading up on you and could not post the past day or so.

Yeah buddy ... you really get yourself spinning don't ya? I hope you get where I am coming from, not trying to bash you not attack, but just reading you .... its dripping with emotion.

What do you really want out of all this BE?

What are you willing to do?

I ask because the answers to those 2 questions really are the foundation on how to figure out a plan to get you there ... REGARDLESS of your W and your M at this point because you have to realize that old M and that old W are not an option for you right now .. .I know that stings like a B but its the truth and the quicker you figure out YOU ... the quicker you can start doing things to improve YOUR situation.

Start figuring out who you want BEC 2.0 to be ... because that insecure, controlling stalker BEC 1.0 needs to be reprogrammed with a quickness, I do hope you see that ... start small ... all changes are not over night and its good to start small.

The first change I did while working on Cali 2.0 ... very first change. I made my bed every morning, stupid and small change that impacted no one but me. But I did it ... while I did it I reminded myself of who I was working at becoming .. EVERY DAMN DAY first thing in the morning. Over time, more changes, more reminders ... long uphill walk but I did it and continue to do it.



I know you aren't bashing Cali. Like Job said, I know that you all are not the enemy and are on my side.

Man I tell you, I don't even recognize MYSELF with some of these behaviors. If I had to self analyze I would say that it is a combination of time eating away at me, fear and desperation.

To answer your two specific question:

What I want overall is my family back. I want my Wife to love me again. I know that I still have alot of growth left to do. ALOT. But I have grown quite a bit in the last 9 months. My depression is gone. I have become a great and involved father. But there is still so much more I need to work on and get to. I know this because in spite of these genuine changes, it is too little too late (for now) so far as my wife is concerned. So the part of growth that I have a long way to go in achieving in acceptance. I am having a tremendous amount of difficulty accepting that I cannot fix this. Not on my own at least.


What I want for myself is to find y sense of self again. To be grounded again. I really am a good, kind and loving person. But I am a very emotional dude (which is very obvious). I want to feel and know that I am going to be ok no matter what happens (even though what I ultimately want is my Wife back).

BEClem #2594848 08/05/15 11:26 PM
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Sorry. I forgot to answer question number 2.

What am I willing to do?

My first reaction is to say I would do anything. But when I really look inward I want to be able to think that I would do anything but I know that I am at a point where I still want the results that I want.

Goes right back to that struggle with acceptance and control.

BEClem #2594851 08/05/15 11:44 PM
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You can do this BE. Really take what the vets are giving you to heart. They're all saying the same thing. You can have the results you want if you follow their advice!

I believe in you BE.


M 39 W 36
T5 M3
BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day
Served 9/15
D finalized 6/17
PigPen #2594854 08/05/15 11:49 PM
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I believe in you too BE.

You can do this man!!!


Was made a better person by DB'ers
HeavyD #2594861 08/06/15 12:35 AM
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Thank you Pig and Heavy. You made me blush smile

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BEC

Ok I'm on my phone,

Keep in mind things you want and what you are willing to do... Are only things that are within your control. You can not make your wife love you... Free will has been granted to us all... This is important for you to focus on... Your W can do as she pleases, go to a concert, get a tattoo, strut downtown butt nekkid.... Her choices, her life, her consequences and you have to push through all your chit and accept that ... Even grow to respect it

Now... Back to the questions and goals... They have to be all about you, nothing to do with your W

I get the past and the depression, keep it back there, it's done and over and you need to own it... But more importantly move on from it becoming the best you that is humanly possible
Let's start small...3 Goals for the end of the month... Again only about you.

Do not allow yourself to think about W or what she is doing, detach, go out and do something different this week


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



CaliGuy #2594881 08/06/15 02:13 AM
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Any goal suggestions Cali?

BEClem #2594884 08/06/15 02:21 AM
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Well .... Sure lets try some

1. No R/Om talks...stalks...thoughts longer than 15 minutes for one month.
2. Plan a GAL trip for your kids... Pick them up and DO something fun
3. Join a group... Anything ... Softball, church, excercise class...nothing bar/drink related... But something totally out of your comfort zone and stick with it
4. Try Meetup ... Pick one ...like a movie night
5. Dance lessons
6. Knit with old ladies
7. Don't ask me for ideas... See where this goes?
8. Streak through the quad


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



CaliGuy #2594893 08/06/15 02:36 AM
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LOL

C'mon everyone. We're going streaking. Streaking through the quad.

BEClem #2594915 08/06/15 03:25 AM
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Try ghost riding!!!


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2594922 08/06/15 04:06 AM
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What in the world is ghost riding Zues?

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Originally Posted By: Zues126
right before I dropped my kids off I did something that was rather spontaneous and EXTREMELY fun and memorable. I watched a video with my kids about the worst parts of any video games ever. There was a part of MTV's "Pimp my ride" video game when you have to ghost ride, which means your character has to leave his car idling down the road while walking along side and doing goofy dance moves. Apparently this is the new pimp thing. So in this video the guy that's making fun of it does it in real life, he's dressed like a pimp and has tunes jamming out of his car (and it's like an old Dodge Neon) and he's walking along side of it while it rolls shouting phony rap lyrics and doing these terrible dance moves.

Point is we all laughed our tails off...so right before I dropped the kids off I pulled into an empty parking lot and I queued up the song from the video, threw open my door, and jumped out of the car and started twirling around and shouting out the stupid lyrics...just for like 5-10 seconds, then I jumped back in my car and shouted "ghost ride baby!". My kids DIED laughing. They thought it was the coolest thing ever. It was all they could talk about for the last half hour we were together. They went from a moment of panic when they saw me jump out of my car, to thinking I'm like the coolest dad ever. So it made me pretty happy to end on that note. As long as it doesn't somehow prove I'm a dangerous dad in court in 2 months...


cool

Last edited by Zues126; 08/06/15 04:10 AM.

Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2594946 08/06/15 06:31 AM
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BeClem, looks like you've been getting some good advice. Cali has kindly suggested some goals, but these truly need to be yours. And this all links back to knowing yourself and looking at what YOU truly want in life going fowards - with or without your W in the frame.

I'm looking forward to seeing your shift of focus - away from trying to control what your W is doing....which causes a desperate whirlygig effect as we have just seen - and onto that which you CAN control - YOU!!

Good luck my friend..


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2595741 08/08/15 03:45 PM
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I was served with papers today.

BEClem #2595743 08/08/15 03:48 PM
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I'm sorry to hear this. Now, you need to look at this as a business partnership that has gone south. No more discussions w/her about anything except paying the bills and the children. Everything else...go to your lawyer and allow him/her to work w/her lawyer.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2595747 08/08/15 04:09 PM
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I texted my lawyer to let him know. The agreement drafted up by her lawyer is not something I will agree to. So this process may take a while.

The only peace I have right now is knowing that one day, when my little boy and little girl are grown, I will be able to look them in the eyes and tell them I did all that I could to keep us together. Did I make mistakes? Yes. Were my efforts perfect? No. But I fought a good fight for noble reasons.

But I do feel like I failed them because my efforts did not produce the intended results. I know we talk about how DBing is about us. But really we all come here with the same goal: to save our marriages and our families.

In that. I have failed. But I can always take solice in the fact that I didn't give up and did the best I could.

BEClem #2595752 08/08/15 04:35 PM
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Be,

Sorry man. I'm right with you on all of this. I was to served two weeks ago, we will get through it man. One door closes and another opens. Keep your head up and just work on you. And focus on the kids, they really need you to be there at this time.

DNTWNT #2595759 08/08/15 05:16 PM
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My heart goes out to you as well D.

BEClem #2595797 08/08/15 08:27 PM
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BE, it's alright to feel the pain today. I'm sorry.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
BEClem #2595799 08/08/15 08:35 PM
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Really sorry. A very tough blow.

Still, you haven't failed. Not even yet to save your marriage. I'm not saying it looks good, but it's still not final, and 11th hour changes of heart happen (partly the deal doesn't look so good when they aren't getting the fantasy of what they think the arrangement will be). And, as you say, you can stand up and look the kids in the eye in the end. You have also become a better parent, and DBing is important to have as good a R as possible w/ an XW when co-parenting is involved. And who knows where that leads? Neither of you do. Still, no getting away from the pain of it all.


Me: 50 W:43
S6, S3
M: 12 yrs. T: 17
M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14
S 5 Feb '15
D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry")
DB Coach May '15
Wants proceed on D Aug '15
Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
asitis #2595805 08/08/15 09:21 PM
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BEC,
You need to start a new thread. I think I may be posting/reply #103.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2595808 08/08/15 10:01 PM
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