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LouR Offline OP
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Hi all. A new chapter so a new thread.

Previous threads:

Help I want my sparkle back
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2516590&page=1

The book of Lou - Chapter 2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2548148&page=1

The book of Lou - Chapter 3
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2590965&page=1

So a quick recap of the latest.

S18 has gone to live with S21 and H because he was beginning to go off the rails and both H and I felt he could do with some adult males in his life and some tough love.

H has expressed renewed feelings and thoughts about me. Regrets what he did to us and hates the person he has become. He has opened up quite a bit lately and confessed to now seeing a shrink and acknowledging that this is a mlc and he needs serious help. He is scared and unsettled, his word was "overwhelmed" by what he has been doing, who he has become, who he has hurt and by the feelings and thoughts he has. He wants to make sure that what he feels for me is real and not the crisis talking, so we remain friends and he is trying to be a better dad to our sons.

I am trying to work on what is next for me, keeping the focus on me. I have so many options and yet none ? Its a bit of a bluh moment right now. I know something will kick start the movement again.

So welcome to Chapter 4 - I was looking back over chapter 3, I really never expected it to end with H and I talking again - just goes to show that anything can happen so dont give up hope and keep the faith. You never know what is around the corner grin

Love and peace to everyone, you are my rocks and I am so grateful to each and every one of you. Thank you.

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Wow Lou - quite a lot has happened.

Chapter 4?! The developments re your sitch seem like good ones, in spite of the 'twists, turns & many unknowns'.

re >>I have so many options and yet none ? Its a bit of a bluh moment right now. <<

I think you're right, you can only work on you. You have to be your own constant - b/c even IF things happily worked out with all of our spouses / partners, they will remain 'variables.' mlc proved that. You have to 'do you,' we all do. smile


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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Thank you pbetra

Originally Posted By: pbetra
The developments re your sitch seem like good ones, in spite of the 'twists, turns & many unknowns'.


I wish I knew if the developments are good or not, unfortunately it's a case of only time will tell and by then I fear I will not be detached enough and be put through a re run of the pain and rejection. It's not easy to remain in neutral territory, I fear I have crossed the line a few times already.

We fell into ease with each other quickly and he has opened up to me on a level which I did not expect. He lead me along for a bit and then something inside him made him stop, think about who he was doing this to, I am not just another w, I was his long term partner in life, the w he loved, the mother of his c, his best friend and someone he cares for on a deep level. He became honest with me and himself and decided/wanted to get help, as he does not want to continue feeling the way he does, or be the person he has become. He does not want to ever treat me or anyone else they way he has treated ow, he never wants to feel the desire/need to run and explore again, or to cheat which is what he forcibly had to stop himself from doing to ow - he still is adamant he never cheated on me or even considered it.

I take this a good sign, that he is thinking of someone else other than himself and he sees me as being worthy enough and special enough not to drag me along on his crazy ride. But the sad thing is that this may end with us never being an "us" again; that he may discover that what he currently feels for me is not real, its a safety reaction, or that both of us have changed too much, or I cant get past what he has done, said and of course ow - even though she came after he left.

In a way this is harder than not having him in my life, at least I knew where I stood then and got on with my life. I know that is what I should still be doing and treating this like nothing has changed, but lets be honest here, everything did change the moment he picked up the phone .......

I have had a day off today, my first one with nothing to do, no s to distract me, no guests, no organised day out with g/friends. It has been nice, I slept in, had breakfast in bed (crossiants and tea) and then went into town to get some things, plus to have a look at rucksacks - to try and keep focused on my travel goal. I have not spoken or text h nor him to me since Friday, its been a struggle at times to stop myself from just saying "hi, hows your day been" but i have resisted. It has to come from him and I have to reel the conversation back in, keep them short and listen to him - I need a few of Cali's STFU smoothies I think lol. I can't believe that we went months without talking and now I/we don't manage more than a few days.

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Hi Lou - a few BRIEF 'insertions' below - take care.

Originally Posted By: LouR
Thank you pbetra
[quote=pbetra]The ...

We fell into ease with each other quickly and he has opened up to me on a level which I did not expect. He lead me along for a bit and then something inside him made him stop, think about who he was doing this to, I am not just another w, I was his long term partner in life, the w he loved, the mother of his c, his best friend and someone he cares for on a deep level. He became honest with me and himself and decided/wanted to get help, as he does not want to continue feeling the way he does, or be the person he has become. He does not want to ever treat me or anyone else they way he has treated ow, he never wants to feel the desire/need to run and explore again, or to cheat which is what he forcibly had to stop himself from doing to ow - he still is adamant he never cheated on me or even considered it.

I take this a good sign, that he is thinking of someone else other than himself and he sees me as being worthy enough and special enough not to drag me along on his crazy ride. But the sad thing is that this may end with us never being an "us" again; that he may discover that what he currently feels for me is not real, its a safety reaction, or that both of us have changed too much, or I cant get past what he has done, said and of course ow - even though she came after he left.

In a way this is harder than not having him in my life, at least I knew where I stood then and got on with my life. I know that is what I should still be doing and treating this like nothing has changed, but lets be honest here, everything did change the moment he picked up the phone .......

I see what you're saying (knew where you stood). And yes, everything changed! It's no longer the same. It must be harder - that limbo land feeling we have come to know. frown Keep doing DO YOU lou - or something to replace the distraction. I have been dealing with the same recently & I have to get busy re an antidote for the nervous energy

I have had a day off today, my first one with nothing to do, no s to distract me, no guests, no organised day out with g/friends. It has been nice, I slept in, had breakfast in bed (crossiants and tea) and then went into town to get some things, plus to have a look at rucksacks - to try and keep focused on my travel goal. I have not spoken or text h nor him to me since Friday, its been a struggle at times to stop myself from just saying "hi, hows your day been" but i have resisted. It has to come from him and I have to reel the conversation back in, keep them short and listen to him - I need a few of Cali's STFU smoothies (many of us do ... ) I think lol.

I can't believe that we went months without talking and now I/we don't manage more than a few days.

Very strange how the mind works - we can 'see the brain', but not the mind within. In the end, we are master & it is slave. The value & challenge is learning how to be an effective master when training / taming 'the shrew' - the mind! (btw If you hear anything let me know!!!) laugh


I know you have plans, so will let you get to it. I do pop in occasionally even when i dont have anything much to post. Hope that the next time I do, your feeling would have evolved to something else. Keep on keeping on - p. smile


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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Today I am feeling cross with myself, I got too involved in everything going on with h and the firecracker in me reacted.

H rang to talk about s18 and ask if he had contacted me, I replied that we text the night before and that he spoke of the concert that s21 took him too and that he had spent the day with h on saturday, that they went out on the bike and then for dinner. I also said s told me that h had told him that he was no longer with ow and is moving out as soon as he can find somewhere suitable that takes dogs. S then text that he was coming back to visit g/friend in August and planned to move back Sept time, so the intention to keep him down there is not going to well.

We talked about different ideas on how to proceed, I pretty much said I was out of ideas so am following his lead on this one. And then it happened - h said he was thinking of moving s into his house with him as he feels that both s's are living like slobs and to have respect for the world starts with respecting yourself which he isn't. I said (cant remember actual words) that he should not do that, that his living situation is bizzare and he it could cause more confusion to a boy thats already confused.

H asked what I meant by that - I replied: You are living with an ex, by your own admission she seems to have no intentions of moving out, she has made it clear that she wishes it was not over between you, you have dinner together, you talk about everything now, you are relaxed around each other, you have not told her kids you have split so play happy families when they are staying with you, you take them out to the movies and dinner, you even sleep in her bedroom when they are over. That is truly screwy, I am not comfortable about it so how do you think s18 would be.

H defended himself: That it is 100% over for him, that because he has now detached from her emotionally he just lives with her as a flatmate and friend, that he respects its her decision when to tell her kids and he is ok with going along with her wishes until she feels the time is right. He feels nothing for her, she is nice to talk to now they have relaxed and stopped "trying" and the sleeping in the same bed is just that, fully clothed sleeping. When they do move out then there will be no more contact between them, that she is a nice person but he has no need to remain friendly with her at all. She was a mistake, a relationship he never intended to get in to, but she happened and there is no point making it any worse for her than necessary. I have told you, I am very confused in my head and most likely see things very differently from you right now.

I replied: ok, thats your take on it, we have established that you are messed up in the head, so whats her excuse? She is playing you, I feel she is changing tact to keep you, she has admitted she wishes you were not over. Take it from me, this is not healthy for either of you. I really dont want to be a part of this anymore.

H: You may be right about her, I don't feel you are. I have told you I am really messed up in the head, I walked away from you and our marriage for no good reason, that goes to show you how messed up I am. I cant do this right now, my focus is on s18, getting my relationship with him back on track, it stung me to know that he felt I put him behind ow and her kids and that he may have well just not have a dad anymore, that has really affected me and I need to put this right before its too late. Then I need to work on myself and get myself straight again, then it will be you and us. You need to carry on with your life, if that means you find someone else or decide you no longer want me in your life, then that's my loss, I started this, I messed up, I will have to live with the consequences. Please can we stop talking about this now, I just cant keep doing this.

I know I overstepped the boundary big time, DB went off out the window and down the street, I really let myself down ..sigh ...

I know I really need to back off and stop jumping in, I do have this part of me that is waiting for the text to say that he and ow are trying again despite h being so adamant that his living sitch is purely a convenience for him and nothing more. I suppose that if I look at how I am, my own current situation, I am alone and scared of what is next for me, feeling completely lost and not know what to do to get me out of this hole I am in. H threw me a lifeline, a possibility of having my marriage back, my family back, him back in my life. So so wrong of me to think that way; this is my life now and I really HAVE to get on with it how it is, I seem to have gone backwards ahhhhhgggg !!

Last night I wrote my resignation letter and my termination of lease letter, I have not dated them yet, but feel that perhaps if I just give them in then that would force me to change things. Drastic move but maybe what I have to do to get me moving forwards again.

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Lou- sending you all my good wishes but afraid I am not much use otherwise. It is hard to live life as a single when you were a wife and mother for so long. I just feel for you and want you to know you have people supporting you and cheering you on.

I keep a bunch of those motivational sayings to try to motivate me. Sometimes they are just rubbish but in your situation I am reminded of this one saying...

"Don't treat someone as a priority when they are treating you as an option."

H is not happy but is he treating you as the W and mother of his children? Is he caring for you or is he even capable right now?

Hang in there my friend and listen to your inner voice. You are a strong and ethical woman. I put my money on you.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
&#8213; Maya Angelou



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You seem like an intelligent woma nto me - do you really believe your husband's garbage?

Quote:
H defended himself: That it is 100% over for him, that because he has now detached from her emotionally he just lives with her as a flatmate and friend, that he respects its her decision when to tell her kids and he is ok with going along with her wishes until she feels the time is right. He feels nothing for her, she is nice to talk to now they have relaxed and stopped "trying" and the sleeping in the same bed is just that, fully clothed sleeping. When they do move out then there will be no more contact between them, that she is a nice person but he has no need to remain friendly with her at all. She was a mistake, a relationship he never intended to get in to, but she happened and there is no point making it any worse for her than necessary. I have told you, I am very confused in my head and most likely see things very differently from you right now.


Quote:
I started this, I messed up, I will have to live with the consequences. Please can we stop talking about this now, I just cant keep doing this.


So what is he going to DO about it. These are just crazy words

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Thank you Gwen, its always good to hear from you. I value what you have to say always, never think otherwise.

Originally Posted By: 123Gwen

I keep a bunch of those motivational sayings to try to motivate me. Sometimes they are just rubbish but in your situation I am reminded of this one saying...

"Don't treat someone as a priority when they are treating you as an option."


I have loads of those inspirational quotes scrolling around my laptop, I change them often as to how I am feeling. I looked back at the ones I had when h first left, then my angry "I hate all men" stage ha ha, then looking to the future ones. I love em all, but like my music, I cant look at the ones from the beginning anymore, too many memories - I even turn the radio down if a song I used to repeatedly play comes on. As for yours - yep I get it. I am not his priority, nor should I be right now, but I am also not really an option - he is not treating me as a fall back if all goes wrong, he knows that I deserve a man who loves and adores me unconditionally with all his heart and treats me like the rare gem that I am. He cannot be that person right now, he knows that, so is doing everything possible to make himself well again in the hope of becoming that person. I am fully aware that he may change direction, that this unravelling of the confusion he is feeling may indeed change his current thoughts about me, but in that case I can know that I did everything I could, I gave us that chance.

Originally Posted By: 123Gwen
H is not happy but is he treating you as the W and mother of his children? Is he caring for you or is he even capable right now?


He is absolutely treating me as the mother of his children, we are now fully co parenting and he has stepped up with the problems we are facing with s18 right now. We discuss our children regularly - much to our sons annoyance as now they cant play one off against the other lol. As for being his W - I am not his wife, only on paper, we are still separated and there is no plans to reconcile at this point. He cares very much for me and has said as much, he said that we have been together a long time, been through so much and I am the mother of his children, if I need anything I only need ask I know he would do it - I haven't because I dont want to become reliant on him, I need to remain independent.



So things have changed AGAIN.

Got a text from h tonight informing me that s18 was now living with him. I was not happy that he went against my wishes moving s in with ow and their weird living arrangements so text him back saying so but added that I know its him in charge at the moment so I am sure he had good reason.

H text back that he felt he could be better for s18 having him close and that is was only him and s now anyway .....whoa ....did I just read that correctly !!

So I questioned it and he deflected, talked about s again. So I asked if he was avoiding and he said yes, he wants to keep his two lives separate, its easier for him to process them that way. So by this time curiosity has got the better of me -

So I tried a different tack, said I respect what he said, I hope that it was not to do with what I said yesterday and sorry if it was. Then changed the subject back to s

H text me back that yes it was to do with what I said yesterday and he really does not want to talk about it, that he will in the future but not right now. It needs to be this way for him and he is sorry about that.

So I like to think (because I can) that he discovered I was right ...yeah yeah I know, its all hearsay and guessing, but its the fun version, so am going with it.

DING DONG THE OW HAS GONE

I replied that he should not be sorry, I respect his request and I know that his priority is building relationship with sons and working on himself to fix his head and then if he/I still want us then he will be in it 100%, that i did listen to what he said, I occasionally do !!

He replied that he now has that in writing and a few silly texts went back and forth until he said that it was bedtime for him - he signed off Night Night x - something that he used to do.

I was a lot better today at respecting his wishes and privacy and not pushing for answers.

In the GAL department, a couple of throw away comments today made me think, one was "why are you a cleaner, you are so much better than this" and the other was " how is anyone else going to live up to you if you ever leave" - I don't know if those people have any idea what impact those comments would have on me. I told h and he said - that's always been the case, whatever you do, you excel at it - I am starting to get it, slowly its sinking in -

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Lou,

I hope hasn't asked your son to lie about OW.


"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man

“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
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Hi Lois

I have not talked to s, only h. H knows that s would tell me so he can't get away with lying about this, plus s would not lie for him, he really does not like what his d has done to me and his family and he absolutely hates her, so I would be very surprised if s has agreed to move in with her.

For H to go against my wishes and move s in with him and her would be a bold step on his part - I feel he is showing s18 that he is his priority, that ow and her family are not. Building bridges.

For h to lie now - yeah possible - but to lie over this, when he can be obviously caught out, I would be surprised.

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What an end to last week – I asked for a meeting with my supervisor on Thursday. Cut a long story short – I gave in my verbal notice as courtesy, saying I would be handing it in formally this week.

Within the hour I had received a pay rise, an offer of a new position and agreement to 2 months off to travel as long as I am back before Christmas and commit to the position to February next yr ! My store manager said that I was not being offered it because I handed in my notice, that I had earnt it and he was waiting for the owner to sign off on it, which he did that morning - I just got in first -oops !!

I told h and his reaction was “wowsers! I am not surprised though” I asked his opinion, he replied “ I have caused you enough confusion lately, your on your own with this one”.

So I have spent the past few days going around in circles and decided to take the position but turn down the travel time as I want to go away June/July next year and if I am still with the company I can’t be cheeky and have it again! So I have gone from crappy cleaner to running Health and Beauty dept - with a rumour of me being offered a cadetship to management if I can turn the dept around.

H rang today to talk about s and he asked if I have decided on the job – I said yes, but would really like his thoughts before I tell him –

We talked for a long time on how things stand now, he understands now that he has a long way to go to sort his head out. He needs to settle in himself and build his life independently from me so he does not bring any toxic residue into any other future relationship, to be whole again.

He said that I am still his target and that when he left I was not even on the range so things have definitely changed. I told him my decision – I said it was made because I need to do this for myself, a new challenge for me, more for my c.v, future security financially. I am doing it for him, to allow him space from me to mend and “find” himself. I am doing it for us, to give us the best chance possible, because if there is to be an us, I want it to be for life, no looking over my shoulder, a strong, healthy relationship

H said he liked what I said and that I included the word “us” in it.

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Congratulations on the new position. I'm so glad management realized what a great worker they had in their company. You'll turn that department around in no time and make plenty of money for them as well.

I'm also glad that you and your h can talk things over w/o him getting all tense, etc. Continue to keep the communication lines open.

Again, congratulations!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Oh wow! Running Health and Beauty - that sounds fabulous....you must be so excited & I'm thrilled for you. It sounds like a much deserved success. It's good that interactions with your H are positive too - but taking things slowly. No bad thing.

Sounds like you are on the right track with things, and good luck in your new role.

Toots xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Yay Lou! Congratulations on your well earned and much deserved promotion. I have no doubt you will be successful and this is just the beginning of an exciting new page in the book of Lou.

Your H sounds encouraging yet realistic. No expectations they say but yet being able to keep the door open to the possibility is a lovely thing.

Take wonderful care of yourself right now. It is essential you focus on yourself so you can enjoy and savor the limitless possibilities for the book of Lou.

{{{hugs}}}}


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
&#8213; Maya Angelou



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Good for you Lou. smile I think one of the most important things that will come out of this process for you, is taking control of your own financial future. In the past you trusted your H to do that, and he failed. From here on out, whether you reunite with him or not, the important thing is for YOU to carve out your OWN financial stability.

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Thank you job, toots, Gwen and kml

Thank you so much for your congrats, it means a lot coming from you all, you have chosen to come along for the ride with me and I am humbled by that.

Originally Posted By: kml
I think one of the most important things that will come out of this process for you, is taking control of your own financial future. In the past you trusted your H to do that, and he failed. From here on out, whether you reunite with him or not, the important thing is for YOU to carve out your OWN financial stability.


I totally agree kml, this has been a HUGE lesson for me. I won't ever go back to being dependant on someone else financially again. More so as h has confessed to how much debt he has managed to rack up over the past year - trying to be the person ow wanted, trying to be the person he thought he wanted to be, trying to live the life he thought he wanted. Its scary stuff and I am very conscious that should I decide to start afresh with him if that choice occurs then he take ownership of his debts from this time and I don't have anything to do with them. And to be really honest, since he told me about it, I have withdrawn a bit - unless this spending issue is covered in his therapy I don't want back in to "us", I can't live like that, especially now I am back in control of my own destiny.

Taking this position has really changed my headspace. It has made me settle a bit within myself. Committing to being here for the next 6 months the moving thoughts have ceased; I have just arranged for my belongings to be delivered from storage so my house becomes my home. I see that I can go a lot further job wise, it has given me value, financially stability, structure and future choices for me - suddenly h has not become a focus, he is now just a possible choice.

Thank you for pointing these things out to me - sometimes its easy to get caught up in the moment and not see the bigger picture.

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Originally Posted By: LouR
More so as h has confessed to how much debt he has managed to rack up over the past year - trying to be the person ow wanted, trying to be the person he thought he wanted to be, trying to live the life he thought he wanted.
This is just priceless!!!

Lou, I’m so happy or you! I know how it feels to have financial stability. I was out of work for the whole year. I was preparing to lose my house. What a relieve it was when I finally found the job I have now. It changes everything! I can’t even imagine how big of a deal it is for you, for a person who had to rely on H for so long, and now you have your own life. Well, let me take it back… I did have some experience of this, when I relied on my first xh to provide for us and I had no say in where the money was spent. My son was an infant and I was not working. So, I actually do understand the excitement of being able to rely on nobody, but yourself and knowing that you can make it just fine.

Can’t wait for the updates on how the job is going!


M:50
H:52
S28 (my S from previous marriage)
M:17 + 3
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S: 06/12 - H works in another state
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Lou,

You took a drab, terrible situation and made it work for YOU!

Simply amazing :-)


"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man

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Thanks Bright and Lois, this is like having my own cheerleading team :o)

Just wanted to get a few things out of my head, just journaling a bit, stuff that I can't talk to friends about as they don't get any of the h stuff, which is understandable because I don't really understand it myself.

So work wise - I have finished my last full crapola cleaning shift and start 2 weeks of training for my new role on Tuesday. The expectations have been set out for me now and are much more than I realised; it's not a problem really, a bit more of a challenge but i like a challenge and work best when working to achieve a goal.

S18 is back visiting his g/friend for a few days, staying with me. Seems h has found a new place and moving in next weekend. s18 asked when he is allowed to come home ?? I had hoped that he would want to remain with his d but the answer to that was " what don't you get, dad is my dad, he always will be, but I wont forgive him breaking up our family and hurting you, he can try as hard as he wants with me, its not gonna happen" - ah, eek! So he is looking to move back Sept/Oct time.

I have not heard from h for a week now, he said to me that Friday is shrink day, Sat and Sun his head is a mush from the session. Wed and Thurs is head mess from building himself up to be open on Fri session, which leaves Mon and Tues - He is really all over the place, one moment is all about getting offended if I don't include "us" in my plans, he keeps asking me if anything has changed with me and my thoughts as he opens up about how life is for him and what is in his head (which to be honest some of it has made me take a step back, I am not a closed person, but some of the stuff that is going on in his head is seriously messed up) The next moment he is asking for space and saying that he still needs to build an individual life and get through enough therapy that he is happy with who he is and that he is never going to hurt anyone in the future .....notice that he did not say me ....

I dont get why he is being so honest and open about such personal stuff with me, we are no longer together so he is not required to tell me anything anymore. He has backtracked a bit on the "us" thing, saying his shrink has told him to walk away from that scenario for now and concentrate on sorting everything else out first - thus him no longer contacting me and keeping me in the dark again.

I really don't like this - its up, down, back, forwards, round and round.

One thing that has come out of this is the realisation that I miss being in a relationship, I miss all that comes with it, the physical and the intimacy, the having someone to share my life with. I never considered anyone else outside of h, its not been an issue until now, but I now think about it a lot more. A couple of my g/friends are in new relationships and I see that and now have a bad case of relationship envy - I am genuinely happy for them both and its lovely to see them so happy and loved up ....but jealous muchly :o(

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A new relationship will happen when and if you're ready. You, like your ex, need to be working on YOU rihht now. And your ex, right now, is not someone you would choose to date. Perhaps he will work on himself and transform himself into someone you would want to date.....financially stable, supportive, kind, an equal partner. Perhaps not.

Sometimes it takes some time and distance to realize that a beloved spouse may not have been such a good partner.

I know for me, my current boyfriend treats me much better than my ex ever did. I never knew what I was missing!

As for your son...I've never badmouthed my ex, and I always tried to help them see the role of midlife crisis and concussions in their dad's behavior. But they're entitled to their own opinions, and that has deteriorated over time as he has failed to meet their needs as they struggle to adulthood.

Also all of mine struggle with the anxiety that comes from your perfect world being unexpectedly blown up; they feel the world is an unpredictable unsafe place.

The best thing you can do is what you're doing now; showing them what it looks like to pick yourself up, find success and joy in your life. I know my kids have been positively affected by my example.

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Thanks kml, I did not expect a reply so I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

I totally agree with you - I would not choose my h to date, i am not sure if there is anything about him I like right now. I feel sorry for him I suppose, its the whole "in sickness and in health" kinda thing, I went into this m committed to him and I see that he really is broken. What kind of person does it make me to just walk away from someone reaching out for help - I would do it for anyone, as that is who I am, in this case it just happens to be someone I was/am married to.

Some days I get him, the h I knew, he chats, laughs and jokes around like we used to, then a few days later its total head mush and he can't cope with the world. When I began this journey and it was said that the MLC'er has a really bad time of it, that it is not all fun and fluffy in their world, I did not believe it, I just saw the ow, the going out, the toys and living it up - but it really is true, they are chasing the fantasy that they blew their life apart for and he now has so many issues and problems as a result of it.

As for my sx2, I have never bad mouthed their d to them, if anything I have defended him, I even came back to NZ to keep them both here because i knew one day h would come out of this and to realise that he has lost his kids would have devastated him - as it is he is trying to mend bridges with them, especially s18 who has taken it worse than s21; they both see it as dad has broken their family, they were always so proud to have parents still together and who loved each other - it was a shock to them ....it was a shock to everyone. On top of that mum has had to struggle, to get a job, pay rent and bills and build a life without d, while d lived it up with ow and her kids. He has done himself no favours and I don't think he fully understands the impact it has had on our boys - it does not matter how old your kids are, it affects them.

I hope that the therapy starts to work for him and he can cope with life again - he will be picking up the pieces for many years to come, especially his finances.

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Originally Posted By: LouR
When I began this journey and it was said that the MLC'er has a really bad time of it, that it is not all fun and fluffy in their world, I did not believe it, I just saw the ow, the going out, the toys and living it up - but it really is true, they are chasing the fantasy that they blew their life apart for and he now has so many issues and problems as a result of it.


I too did not believe this, I think partly becuase having ones world flipped upside down you can only see/feel the pain as you try to figure out wtf just happened and it felt like my MLCr was oblivious and living up this new lifestyle chasing that fun-rush.

But now as she has started coming out, looking at all the damage that was caused, and all the baggage that follows ... its just a tragic thing for certain and I can see very easily how some never come out of it ... because facing this destruction must be something terrible.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Feeling helpless at atm frown

Mini life update:

I started my new position last week. I have seen the challenge ahead of me and have started working on achieving a smooth running department. Failure is not an option in my book, so I will find a way. Every part of me aches right now, I have been re arranging the storeroom - but to see it all done was worth it. My supervisor seems happy with my work so far and tells me they definitely picked the right person for the position blush

Made a few new friends this week which is great. My f/b count is steadily rising smile

S18 has decided to come home, he is not happy at his dads (does not help that for some strange reason h allowed ow to move back in while she looks for another place - apparently she pointed out her name is on the lease so she has as much right to be there as he does; this just goes to show what a crazy chick she is !!) and says he misses his g/friend, mates and me awwwwww - sweet talker ha ha. He returns to me next weekend and then is moving into a house share with his friends.

H is gutted - that was his words - he had hoped s18 would have stayed long enough for him to get his own place so they could spend time alone .....and true to my non db form, i replied " you would have had him alone if you had not allowed ow back, once again you have put her needs before your son" he replied "agreed, I'm an idiot and a crap father I know. I also know I have been neglecting you recently (I had not heard from him in over a week), I have so many balls to juggle right now that I tend to drop one and it always seems to be yours, I am sorry"

H then talked about the choices both s are making right now. I pointed out that at 18/21 (ages of our sons and the ages we met and got married) he probably made some daft choices too (hoping he would see the amusing side), h replied "nothing as daft as at 43" (his age when he left me)

I replied that I sense an ickle regret creeping in here and he replied " my life is consumed by regrets. Hate it and myself for making so many wrong decsions and the effects they have in other people. I try hard not to but fail spectacularly. I want to grab a tent, the dogs and as much cash as I can and bugger off to the bush, sod the job and the debts, at least I can't mess anything or anyone else up then.

Next day h text me, he asked for my help with a couple of things which for me were not a biggy so I said yes. Later on he text me again saying that he has been knocked back for yet another house (seems having the dogs is a big problem with rentals) and the tent was looking pretty atractive right now smile I asked him if he had ever thought of moving elsewhere and he replied that he would love to but he needs his wage and he can't find anyone paying the same anywhere else atm and once the debts are down he will look at it again then.

He really does sound so down and I know that I can't and must not help him, that he must figure this all out for himself. I do try and support him as best I can without shoving my opinions on him. I don't mention r, I figure if he ever comes through this depression stage and stops beating himself up and draws the line across the past to begin living a better future then he will either find his way back to me or he won't -

As for me - GAL is getting better, I have started a new project of creating a craft room. I have bought an old cabinet and am renovating it to hold all my craft stuff and am hunting the op shops for an old desk to convert too. I don't want anything modern as I like to recycle the old and unwanted .....know how it feels sometimes !!

I do feel helpless with h, he is so lost and so down right now that its hard to sit back at not help fix him. His world has turned to custard, he is full of such sadness and depths of despair, almost like he is treading water and some days he just can't keep his head above - I have to resist throwing him the lifebelt and let him learn to swim to the liferaft.

Funny - I have gone from feeling sorry and sad for myself, to feeling sorry and sad for h ??!!

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Send your ex to the mrmoneymustache website, it will give him hope and direction for his finances. Then just let him work it out - you certainly don't want him back if he can't learn to manage his money, just when you are starting to become independent financially yourself!

Good work on the new job! And the kids will know which parent is stable and can be counted on, trust me.

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Lou - reading OW has ret'd made me angry for you. H is still whirling around. His efforts to talk with you are a positive nut I keep feeling like he is wanting to keep you on a string. Just be careful ok? Focus on you becaus you are amazing.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
&#8213; Maya Angelou



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Thanks kml and Gwen

Kml - thank you for the website - h needs to do this on his own so I will be keeping quiet on this one. I know he has been seeing a budget/debt advisor to help him sort out the mess he has got himself into.

Gwen - s18 has been living with his dad since ow returned to the house, he said its been really awkward, h and ow hardly talk to each other and live very separate lives, s18 wouldn't lie to me, he has been very open with his feelings about ow - both s say she is one crazy chick - h knows that letting her back into the house was a big mistake but at the time he was only 4 days from moving in to his new place which subsequently fell through because the landlord would not agree to h putting up a taller gate to keep the dogs in, by that time she had moved back in and he was stuck with her again - tbh, it just goes to show what a weirdo she is, to want to live in a house with a guy who has dumped you (and yes s18 collaborated h story with that too) Its an all round bizarre scenario !!

As for me, I am living my life, h knows where I am, I have friends, a nice home and a good job, the sun is shining and today I feel blessed and happy

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"As for me, I am living my life, h knows where I am, I have friends, a nice home and a good job, the sun is shining and today I feel blessed and happy."

I love that Lou. Remember that! In fact, I think I will read that daily smile


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
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Happy you are in a good place Lou.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
&#8213; Maya Angelou



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Today has been one of those "sad" days, they come along and I know it will pass, just have to ride it out.

Today is h birthday, I broke nc to text him birthday wishes. We ended up texting for a bit, he asked how I was doing and how my job was going. I told him I am struggling a bit with the job but I feel that it is self imposed pressure as my bosses seem happy with the dept progress so far. He gave me a bit of a pep talk and advice from a manager's point of view, it helped and his support and confidence in me was nice to hear.

He talked about his latest session with his shrink - I dont ask details, I dont want to know and its his story to tell if he wishes. He did say that the shrink threw up some challenging questions which caused more inward reflection. He sees he has made some poor decisions and seeing them for that is painful.

I asked him to be honest with me if I turn out to be a poor decision, he replied " no, you're not a poor decision, though are involved in mine" - I don't quite know if he meant I helped create his poor decisions or that I am affected because of them - its something I can't ask so will now wonder about.

Something that also got talked about was renting a beach cottage for a few weeks when it's warmer, taking the dogs and having time out from life to reset. I talked as if it was both of us but his thoughts on it were a bit confusing and I am not sure if he meant alone or both of us, I do not like to presume or ask, so its a wait and see if he brings it up again.

We talked about s18 for a bit and then I wished him a lovely rest of his day. He thanked me and said we will speak soon - I also got two xx, it's getting more regular with his signing off now and whilst I should not read anything into it, to me is a nice finish to the texting.

So this is why the sad hit today. I know its time and patience, its so hard sometimes, I am naturally impatient, but I also know the slower we go the more chance we have. Today's sad day has been about knowing that despite all of this, giving us every chance possible, that we may not make it through together.

In other areas of my life : s18 has returned home, he told me the house share has fallen through so wants to remain living with me. I put some rules in place and so far he has been pretty good about sticking to them. Today he got himself a full time job at a takeaway pizza chain and he has talked about going back to college next year to finish his course. So far it seems like his "time out" with dad has made his realise how good he has it with me !!

GAL - lots going on and been to a few friends for drinks. I have started crafting again and am enjoying that. I have really got to start trying to save a little bit of money each week as I have been invited to a few festivals in the summer.

Generally all is going along ok, the ups and downs still happen, the tears occasionally come along too, but I realise that it is still early days in the process, added to the mix is h dipping in and out and the limbo situation with him.

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Lou,
I'm sorry that you are having some sad days. If you didn't have a few every now and then, you wouldn't be human. You've got a lot on your plate and let's face it, you've not had the chance to really mourn the death of your marriage and the relationship that you had w/your h.

I'm glad you opted to wish him a happy birthday. It sounds like he's finally starting to work on his issues and hopefully he can find himself and get his act together once again.

Sounds like your son's recent stay w/his dad has put some "punch" into his thinking. I'm glad he's found a job and is thinking about going back to college. That's a step in the right direction.

So, what type of crafting are you doing?

Please take care of yourself and allow those sad feelings to wash over you and then release them. Each time they come and go, you are getting even more stronger. I hope that some day, you and your h can truly work things out and get back together, i.e, be it as a married couple or just friends. This chapter of your life is still being written, so you'll be the one to decide whether it will be or not be when the time comes.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi Lou,

I can't really add much except I am rooting for you my friend.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
&#8213; Maya Angelou



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Thank you job and Gwen, your support is always appreciated and I wish that I could give you both a hug in person as thanks, but you will have to make do with a virtual one (job) (gwen)

job - thanks for your words. I don't know what to say today in reply; its that deep heavy feeling inside that threatens to bubble up into tears. I know it's ok and right for me to feel this way today, like you said I am dealing with a lot - its contradictions fighting against each other. confused

My crafting projects - well I'll give anything a go but currently its making cushion covers and I am making cards for some girlfriends, just to say thanks for being in my life. The next project is to get an old cabinet for all my craft stuff and renovate it. I have just upgraded my sewing machine (my old one was my mums which she won in 1966 !!) and a girlfriend and I want to make a pretty summer dress each and hold a garden tea party - having never made a dress before its going to be interesting what we produce lol.

Talking of dresses - my happy day dress is safely wrapped in tissue paper waiting for its day in the sun. One day ....... cool

Thanks Gwen, I cant express how much your friendship means to me.

Well days off over and the working week starts again tomorrow, back to the crazy world of health and beauty - seriously, why do we need so many different types of toothbrushes - and why is the blue one at the back better than the red one at the front .... grin

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Originally Posted By: LouR
its that deep heavy feeling inside that threatens to bubble up into tears.
Lou, you described it perfectly. I still feel like that once in a while too. I just don’t express it much lately. With friends and family, it could bring up an opposite reaction and unwanted “advice”. Here… I sound like a broken record…

It looks like you have a lot of projects in mind! Good for you! As for your H, all you can do is let him figure it out for himself. I’m naturally impatient too. This journey taught me a lot about patience and giving up the desire to control the things that I cannot control.

I hope you have a good week at work and a great time with GAL.


M:50
H:52
S28 (my S from previous marriage)
M:17 + 3
BD: 06/12
S: 06/12 - H works in another state
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Happy Monday everyone - its my day off, spring is in the air and the sun is shining.

Well, chapter 4 has a twist in the story this week.

So after spending a few days in sad land and feeling very sorry for myself (which got me nowhere), I received a text from h saying hi, how are you doing. The standard opening to most of his latest texts - to be honest I am bored of the same . But wait, there is more:

So long story short, the texts turned by his doing until he said this : (the context is about him moving out and the fact he still is living in the same house as her ...she is more screwy than ever ....and its something he covered with his shrink last week"

h: I do not have any feelings for her. I will be leaving. I will then do whatever I can to have a life with you, if you will have me in yours. I have no expectations regarding you, but thats not the same as not having hope. I find I have to stop making plans for the future so that I dont build my hopes up. All the talk about seeing if we want to work now is for your benefit, I know that I want to be with you, end of story

m: Blimey, now thats a declaration! Is it a real one or another confused statement?

h: its real, not confused

m: I have said that the door is ajar, I can't say I am definately in as I have a lot to let go of as I am sure you will appreciate. Time, actions and you becoming the healthiest you can be will help your cause

h: I am very aware that you have to be ok with what I have done. This will be at your pace, on your terms. If it doesnt feel right then it probably isn't.

At this point texts got a bit flirty and then they finished because he was about to drive.

So um, as you can imagine, life has thrown another curve ball my way. Not sure what I feel about it all, I need to be sensible and keep my head. I know that after the "giddy" has died down the reality will set in and I need to be prepared for the long haul of emotions, feelings and working through all of the damage that was in our m and what he has done/said since he left. Can I and do I want to do this .......

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Lou,
If it's a real declaration, he will do the hard/necessary work to prove to you that he is sincere. He is the one that has to earn your trust. Leave the door ajar...


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi LouR-my, my!

Funny how just days ago, you wrote you did not have much to advise as I am "ahead" of you in this whole process. And now this!

One of the things that shocked me and I have lived with my MLCer the whole time is how his declaration to want to work on R seemed to come out of left field. It made me doubt the sincerity. Months later I see that there is so much processing that goes on behind closed doors. Even living with him I can't see so much of what is going on in that MLC mind.

As Job says and as we always hear, it's the actions that show the intent of the MLCer.

You sound so strong!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Thanks for your replies job and HaWho

HaWhoo - yes I know, it just goes to show that anything can happen doesn't it !

After a couple of days "down time" I know that only actions will put power into his words. So in reality, nothing has changed, just the knowledge of an intent -

Our 24th Anniversary is coming up in a couple of weeks time, I wonder if this had anything to do with his declaration. The thought of him spending it with her - even if it really is just as flatmates - really stings. Last year they had temporarily split up so he was alone.

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Lou you are my HERO - I want to be like you when I grow up. If only an attitude of gratitude could cure MLC then you be bottling up your Rx and we'd put this forum out of business.

Meanwhile you've learned how to deal with everything in the real world while keeping your heart and your head from imploding. it has been quite a year and the surprises keep on coming...

You seem to have a firm grasp on what you want. I have a feeling if you can stay focused on what YOU want then the pieces will fall into place. Your H sounds earnest and I do believe in happy endings. Perhaps your happily ever after will be as a couple but, make no mistake -- the book of Lou will have a happily ever after. The heroine has everything she needs to create the story she wants to live.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
&#8213; Maya Angelou



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Awww thank you Gwen, you are the BEST smile

Only a short update this week -

Work is going ok, it's a job, it pays the rent and makes me feel good that I am financially independent and in control of money, but more than anything it's given me worth - the ability to discover my talents and build on them.

S18 - yes, well with all grotty hormonal teenagers there is going to bumps along the way and we are having our fair share grin s21 said to me the other day "mum, was I really like s18 at his age?" I replied "yep" s21 replied "I am so sorry" funny boy.

Now for h - a few texts back n forth on Friday, very flirty ....I mean really flirty ....but all the while I kept a neutral head (as I am very aware ow thinks they are back together)and just enjoyed the attention ...at one point I did add a little dig of "I don't do sharing, 3s a crowd" and h went silent for a bit but he came back. I also mentioned looking for another job, he replied he thought I was contracted until Feb and I replied no, I did not sign the contract, just verbally agreed to get them through Christmas. H mentioned again he is selling his bike and ute to gain back control of his finances.

He had another session with his shrink and then today he let me know that he finally came clean to ow at the weekend, she is of course very angry and upset and told him to leave the house until she has found somewhere else to live (she cant afford the house on her own) - h has moved in with s21 for a while until he can sort something else out for himself and the dogs.

I did not push for details, they are his to give if he wants, which I don't think he will. Well, I wanted him to be alone for our anniversary and looks like that has happened, I also wanted to see action from him, and he certainly has begun to deliver on that one too.

I know that expectations need to be zero, however he is doing everything I ask of him albeit on his time scale, but he is making the effort - so I should start thinking about what I want and how I want this to go as he has made it clear this is on my terms and at my pace. I know that at some point one of us will have to move - the quandary is: he can't find a job near me that pays the wage he needs and I can't afford to live in the city where he is.

The other thing I am having issues with is her. If he had left and been on his own all this time I think I would have been able to get past everything he has said and done to move on and rebuild. I can almost get past the relationship bit, it was obviously not all that. But it's the physical, the thought of him and her, the questions that I know I should not ask and not really sure I want to know anyway, but the mental image, the thought he may think of what they did together, has he learnt something new he may try out on me ugh -
How do I let it go?

As much as I don't want him to let me down again, I also don't want to give him hope if I seriously can't do this.

Well so much for the short update !!

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Lou,
I'm glad work is going okay and yes, it does pay the bills and gives you control over the money you make.

I'm sorry our S18 is going through some "hormonal" ups and downs and hopefully he can work thru them and realize that he's got a wonderful family to support him thru thick and think.

About your h, yes, he is doing everything that you have asked of him...but he still needs to do the work on his own w/o you having to tell him. He truly needs to live on his own for a while and not just move from the ow's place to your son's and then hopefully the two of you move back in together. He still has a lot of growing up to do and until he does, those issues will continue to be the elephant in the room.

As some time in the future, you will be able to have that chat w/him about what he's done. Whatever you do, do not allow things to be swept under the carpet. They need to be discussed and faced head on in order to clear the air and begin a new relationship.

It's time that you, Lou, sit down and truly think about what YOU want. If I were in your shoes, I think I'd take this very, very slowly and not go too fast. First, he needs to get a place of his own, live on his own and then second, date him for a while. You do not want him to return half baked and then in a year or so, go out the door again.

Hang in there!


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Thank you job for the pep talk -

After a restless night I feel a bit calmer this morning. I think pushed things along as I needed her gone, I needed it to be over with. So now (hopefully) the path is clear and it's down to h. His shrink has been really helping him see everything more clearly, I know they have gone back through his childhood and our m, challenging him along the way.

The plan is for ow to move out of their house as she can't afford the rent on her own and for him to move back in when she has gone, which will give him time on his own as neither of us are currently in a position to move nearer to the other. Living on different islands has its good and bad points - the good being we have no choice but the take this slowly, the bad being that we have no choice but to take this slowly !!

Time is the key here - we know we have to remove all the elephants so to grow together and not apart again. He is also very conscious of everything he has put me and our c through over the past few years - as in real terms this has been going on for about 5 yrs with a 2yr simmering gap in the middle - the second cycle was far worse and resulted in BD. We/I have a lot to accept and let go of and to an extent, thanks to this site, I have been able to do. He is embarrassed that this has happened to him, regretful of the pain he has caused and now even sees how his actions and decisions throughout our marriage have affected us all.

As for what I want - well to rebuild my relationship with him with better healthier versions of ourselves. We have a connection, it's always been there, enough for me to still be standing for him and him to come to me when he was struggling. 25yrs ago we met as silly teenagers, what did we know. We got married, we had kids, we got put through the wringer with life's trails and tribulations. Bad decisions were made, good decisions were made but we stayed the course - so to give up now .........

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Lou, I think there is some positive development with your H. I agree with you and Job that you need to take it slow. Don’t let the images of ow take over and dominate your thinking. I can only imagine how hard it must be, but you can do it. I think your ability to handle these thoughts about ow will ultimately determine whether you will be successful in rebuilding the R with your H.

Originally Posted By: LouR
As for what I want - well to rebuild my relationship with him with better healthier versions of ourselves. We have a connection, it's always been there, enough for me to still be standing for him and him to come to me when he was struggling. 25yrs ago we met as silly teenagers, what did we know. We got married, we had kids, we got put through the wringer with life's trails and tribulations. Bad decisions were made, good decisions were made but we stayed the course - so to give up now .........
I love this!

I’m glad that he is doing the concealing. I wish my H would do that, it would open a lot of things for him … and help him to heal whatever childhood traumas he has.

Lou, hang in there. You will do fine.


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Hi there. My first thought was like Job said. Let H live on his own for a while and date each other, take it slow, if you can. It just seems to me that would be the easiest way, if there is a such thing, to take it slow and work through issues while still having that space you both need.

You sound really good. Stay strong and balanced smile


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Thanks mleigh and Bright, you are all right, I know it - slowly and let him make the moves ... sometimes it's easy to get caught up in it all.

So talking of moving - h has rented a new place and is moving into it this weekend!

He sent me photos of it on Wed, it's lovely and ironically (I don't know if he did it on purpose) he has picked a new build on an estate just outside the town, it is the same type of house we chose when we were both moving pre bd. It's the only type of house we have not lived in yet ! Eventually the plan was to buy an old villa by the sea .....ah the dream ....

He has had to take on a 12 month lease so that means that should we reconcile then I would be the one moving - he keeps saying to me that this will be on my terms, so I asked that ow does not go anywhere near the house. He replied "she does not know where I am moving to, she never will. I have redirected my post and dealt with all the household bills so they are up to date, then I removed myself from them, so after this weekend I will not have anything to do with her again"

He went on to say he is worried about collecting his stuff, he did not tell her it was happening until last night as he did not want to give her time to heighten the drama more than it already is with her, plus he is concerned what she may do to his stuff. Her c are staying at the house this weekend so he is hoping she will take them out while he is there, he is concerned that she will kick off in front of them, I hope she does not put them through the ordeal. I told him to remain calm and quiet, they do not deserve to be caught up in this.

And back to me, because everything seems to have become about h and his dramas lately. Work is not going well, I am battling against idiots, guys that are there for the paycheck and don't care about anything else, don't think about anyone else or the work that I put in to make my dept run smoothly (which helps them in the long run as they don't have to go near it anymore). My body is on burnout, I have bruises all over me, my knees have two whopping painful ones from kneeling on the floor, my hands are hot and swollen from repetitive motion, its not a good situation. On top of that a couple of the team members are treating me like a 5yr old and I seriously am not being paid enough to do this - I get paid the same as the plebs who chuck chips on the shelves ...literally chuck them ...

So before I walk out the door (which I know I can't do as I need the paycheck) I am going to ask for some time off to reset and recover.

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I got some time off granted. I have got 10 days off starting next weekend and then another 10 days end of November.

I spoke to h tonight, I told him about my time off and he asked my plans. I told him that I would like us to meet up as the longer we leave it the more limbo I feel. I also said that when he feels ok could we talk about everything I need to so we get everything out in the open (clearing the elephants in the room).

He said we could talk now and that he would be as honest as he can. I asked the questions I really needed to know about, he answered them and even though I knew some of the answers would sting, I knew I had to ask.

We talked about the why and what's changed for him. No profound answers really, but I understood what he was saying. We talked about the biggest issue I have which is ow - basically it was not really a relationship for him, more a physical thing, no emotional connection to her, he was in it for the s%x. He said he does not recall telling me that she made him feel like I never did - as that certainly was not the case, he said he feels she was a rebound from me, that it was the rush of "lust", an ego boost.

We talked about the physical side - I mean really talked about it. He allowed me to ask and as embarrassing and hard it was for him, he answered with detail so I got the picture. He even admitted to thinking about me and "us" on occasion ! He said there was no emotion involved at all and to be honest it was not all that, nothing near to what we had together ...omg lol.

Pretty much sounds like the whole deal was not a wonderful experience but it was a life changing one as she showed him the other side of the fence ...... no I will not be thanking her.

We touched on who we are and what we want from life now. The end result is that we have decided the next step is to meet up, I suggested going to him so I can visit s21, but h suggested I might be more at ease on my own turf so said he would come to see me and can then see s18 at the same time. Then in Nov I can go and see s21 and stay with h.

I did ask him to go have his STD checks and he told me had them done yesterday and will let me know when the results are back. I also said me requesting them does not mean anything, I just want to know they are done.

ow has been in contact a couple of times, he told me what she said, read the email and texts, then his reply to the email, but he said he ignored the texts - the email was about them having some space and then maybe starting again. He replied no.
The texts were just "hi, how are you".

So there we are. He keeps saying we will do this on my terms and at my pace and that he is totally committed to this - we both understand there are no guarantees, as there never is in life.

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Hi Lou, I'm pleased to read about the developments in your sitch. It sounds as though your H is willing to do whatever is needed to repair things. It sounds as though you have come a long way yourself in any case and can navigate the inevitable bends in the road to come. I noticed that your BD was a similar time frame to mine, so that's interesting too.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you guys. Best to proceed for now with low expectations, then everything positive that happens is a pleasant surprise...and you can shrug at anything else too.

Take care and good luck xx


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Lou,
I'm glad you were able to ask some questions and he provided answers. I'm glad he admitted that he didn't connect w/the ow on an emotional level and it was more on the "f@@k buddy" level, and yes, that dear old word "lust" and/or ego boost came into play. I do not think that many of them can actually say that they "love" the other person because they truly don't know what the meaning of the word "love" is all about.

I'm glad you are taking things slowly and I am also glad he's going to come see you first. You'll be able to determine just where he's at when you actually see him. Listen, but also watch the body language.

I do so hope that the words and actions are in sync for you. You have a lot to look forward to...but keep your expectations low and if he's open to more questions, then ask them. Be honest and direct w/him if he asks what you think or where you are at in the situation. He needs to understand that this can't be swept under the rug, i.e., everything has to become transparent.

I will be thinking and praying for you during this meeting up.


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Thank you sotto and job, the jury is still definitely out for me, I certainly won't be rushing into anything and dealing with any red flags as they arise. H is also wanting this to go slowly so he can experience living life on his own, it something I have done and he hasn't, he needs to build a separate single life so that we can both bring something independant into a new relationship.

The s$x thing still sits with me but only time will tell if it becomes an issue, I suppose the trick is to not allow it to be an issue, that its within my control to forgive and forget - seeing as it sounds like a big let down ....literally ha ha .... it maybe easier for me to feel "better than her".

One interesting thing we did talk about was independance , the importance of being a You, Me, Us, which is something we lost in the past. Also he was worried that now I am independant and I don't feel I "need" a man, that I would not allow him to be a man - he said he wants me to allow him to be the man, open the jars of sauce for me, reach things off the top shelf, change the oil in the car lol. So I laughed and said I may not need a man, but I want a man. Plus I felt the same, I want to be treated like a woman; to be allowed to have pretty things around me (I had 3 males and lost the battle for nice things), I want to be told I look beautiful today- he coughed and said, "you would never accept a compliment before" - so I replied, "well that was the old me, the new me will never tire of being told how gorgeous I am" ..laughing ...

So this is not quite movie stuff - no big grand gestures, no begging for forgiveness and promises of undying love forever. It's all been more subtle and sort of just "happened".

I do know whatever happens that I will be ok. It will be painful if this does not work out, but I am in a stronger place this time. I also know that if its not right for me, then I can say that. For now, I just want to get this first meet over with, not let it to be heavy, just enjoy his company and be relaxed around him, laugh a lot and let him see a glimpse the new Lou.

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Having a bit of a bluh day so going to journal it out.

It is this h sitch. I know the drill; patience, time, slowly, no pushing and zero expectations, however this is excruciatingly frustrating and I know will continue this way for a while yet. When boy likes girl, he pursues her and hopefully if he is a lucky guy he gets the girl. Here we have a admission that the girl is what boy wants yet he does nothing more ....then a call ....then nothing ...then a text ....then nothing. Way to go being made to feel wanted and desired NOT!

(I do know it really has not been "nothing more", he has been good this week, being open and honest with the very personal questions I asked him, knowing it could potentially scare me away. Telling your w details about your s$x life with another women must have been as weird for him to say them as it was for me to hear them !)

H was supposed to call me this weekend to let me know if he is going to come see me while I am off and what dates, but nothing from him. S21 mentioned today that h is swimming and running every night to lose weight and get fit - I wonder if that is why he is delaying seeing me as I have lost weight and got fit while he has put on weight and got a belly, perhaps he wants to look his best to push up his chances of me fancying him again ??!! -

Tomorrow is our 24th Wedding Anniversary, I wonder if he will acknowledge it. Just feel like I want to shake him and say "freaking make a move, anything, just something to give me a sign you are still wanting this, wanting me"

Thanks for listening, rant over :o)

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Lou,
Your h isn't out of crisis yet. He's still got a ways to go and they do poke their heads out periodically then scamper back into the rabbit hole. It's one step forward and two steps back. Whatever you do, do not call him as this is would be considered pursuing. Continue as you have been and allow him to come to you. Yes, he will contact you again very soon.

Also, please keep in mind that when they are in crisis, whether it's at the beginning, middle or close to the end, their memories are shot. They say that they are going to call or do something at a certain time on a certain day and they'll forget. It's the depression that fogs up their brains. They can't always remember what they need to do.

If he calls you, be kind (as I know you will be). Don't expect anything from him right now. Lip service is still in play. Actions always speak louder than words. Keep your expectations dialed down to zero and dig deeper for patience.

Lou, he will call you again very soon. Try to be patient as the reconnection is the most difficult time for the LBS because we want it done yesterday, but it takes a lot of time and patience because it is a very gradual course of action.


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Hi Lou, thanks for your post on my thread - really gave me a boost this morning - especially as I had just read all of your threads. Wow - it has been quite a journey for you. I think what is happening isn't H's issue as such. He is progressing through the crisis just as you would think he will. He is giving positive messages and then retreating a little only to come back a little stronger and so on.

I think the problem comes at our end when our expectations get raised. He said he would contact me on Y and he didn't. I want more signs from him and so on. It's maybe good to remember that when he isn't in touch, he is most likely processing - and processing is good!

You know already that reconnection is never likely to be a fanfare and firewors thing - because most MLCers have become pretty broken by recent events and remain in some turmoil. They only have so much to give and only sometimes too.

So, for the other times it is really important to remember that you are your own woman with your own plans. Also remember that he feels the biggest thing you did (or didn't do..) was leave him be when he really needed it. I'm sure there will be times when he really needs that still.

Anyway, I think you are doing well and I'm sure you will come up with some nice plans to improve your bleuugh day. Thanks for being an inspiration to me on the forum and take care xx


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Thank you job and Sotto for the pep talk.

So today was our 24th Wed Anni, not a word from h. Honestly I am disappointed and feel let down. It would have been the perfect opportunity for h to show sincerity in his words from over the past few weeks.

It has given me the 2x4 I needed to remind me that he has a looooooooong way still to go and now I am asking myself if this is what I want. The non committal, the feeling of being ignored - is this really it, am I going to have to put up with all this to get a guy back who quite frankly caused me intense pain and let me down on all levels.

Do I have to give up the thought of romance and being pursued, is that part of the deal? Because if it is then this whole reconnection thing just su&ks. Why do we get to be the ones who experience the pain of being left and then when they do finally start to come back around we are the ones who have to guide them back home again. Is all this really worth it, do you actually get a stronger more fulfilling relationship or do you spend years trying to figure all this out and treading on eggshells in case you upset them and they run again?

I know I have become too emotionally involved and I need to detach myself from him to get through the next few months, he is quite clearly all over the place himself, not able to fully function with clear decisive thoughts and actions yet. I did not contact him today and resisted temptation to send a snarky text this evening. I have decided to give him until Wed to contact me re visiting dates and then I am going to make other plans for my holiday.

Roll on Saturday :o)

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Hi there my friend,

I am sorry your H was not more sensitive to your anniversary. I can certainly understand your sadness and mixed feelings.

Everything you've posted - all those thoughts and questions about reconciliation are truly legislate. I always considered myself such a positive person but it seems like MLC has put boulders in your path and the road is so long.

I guess that's why the dbusting books promote detachment and zero expectations so forcefully. The only way you have a chance to rebuild is to start from a place of not caring either way. It is ironic but you have to be deprogrammed from your old marriage to have a prayer of beginning a new one.

I guess that is why GAL takes center stage. I see it all for what it is in the case of MLC - save yourself and then deal with your spouse if they ever deal with themselves.

This is a long process my friend. This is going to sound cruel but try not to care. I know it flies in the face of all that you are but your H is not stable enough right now. I don't think he is being intentionally cruel but I do think he finds comfort in knowing you are waiting in the wings.

Your H's willingness to have these tough talks and his work with a therapist are wonderful. He seems to truly want purposeful change in his life and to preserve his relationship with his family. These are monumental steps but it may take quite a while before you know exactly how this will play out in terms of your marriage.

Lou you are my heroine. You are the kind of woman who grabs that silver lining in any situation. Be true to that and true to yourself right now. It's okay to delve into these questions about the future as long as they don't stop you from being fully present in this moment in your life. You deserve to take center stage right now!


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Lou,
I'm so sorry that he didn't contact you. The contact that you've been having w/him set you up for disappointment. He's still in crisis and per him, working on his issues.

He's got a long way to go and I think he's actually scared to be on his own. I know, it's funny because he's a grown man, but MLCers can be by themselves for very long. So, when he broke up w/the ow, he was already thinking about the two of you working your way back to each other. He needs to be on his own for a while and figure things out. He's looking to you to rescue him. He's got to grow up.

Lou, you are a wonderful person who is an inspiration to many here...please do not allow his behavior to get to you. Yes, it was a disappointment, but it was a reminder that all is not well w/him yet and he's got a ways to go. Dial down your expectations and if you don't hear from him by Wednesday, then make other plans and enjoy yourself. It's his loss.


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Lou, I'm sorry to hear that and I can understand all that you are saying. I also ask that question....is it truly worth it???

I can understand your disappointment, given his recent contact. And I can also understand that you feel some contact on your anniversary was 'the least he could do.'

Arghh - I have nothing else much to offer - other than good thoughts and best wishes. You did well not to send a snarky note to him. And it sounds like a good idea to make your own plans for your time off.

The long and rocky road warnings are truly there for a reason. But we all get to decide ultimately what we do. My feeling FWIW is that there have been some glimmers of hope from your H recently. But if he can't manage this, he is still pretty foggy I suspect.

Anyway, take care of yourself. Make some lovely plans and leave H be for now xx


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Thank you Gwen, job and Sotto

I am having a bad case of Anniversaryitis I feel !!

Gwen - you made so much sense and yes I should "not care" either way, I do know that I will be fine either way, but that is not the same as caring. I know I need to refocus and get detaching myself again, I stupidly allowed myself to get caught up in his reappearance and promises, it was easy to do and I chastise myself for not being a bit more "standoffish".

job - thank you, you always bring me back to earth. The more that happens the more I see h is finding his way and you are so right, he needs to be on his own to do this. I am not sure how I have managed to get away with all that I have with him so far. As for being an inspiration to many, shucks !

sotto - "Is it truly worth it". Well the answer to that is: I won't know unless I try. Currently I am choosing to try because the "what if" is still strong for me. I can see the possibility, I have talked to it (h). Currently I feel I love my h but I am not IL with him, the things he does and says raise flags but as job points out, he is still very much in crisis so is still processing what is going on in his world, I should make it a habit of reminding myself of this.

4 shifts and I am on holiday for 9 days. I feel a beach calling me, the weather here is still changeable but the sun is out more and more so I want to make the most of being outdoors while I have the opportunity. I am glad I did not contact h yesterday, it would have been a huge mistake on my part. I must allow him to make steps forward on his own.

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Hey Lou, maybe H is so overwhelmed with trying to figure out his potential visit with you, that he completely forgot about the anniversary. Just a thought... You are doing great! Keep moving forward.


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Thanks for looking on the BRIGHT side he he.

Yeah, well the mystery has been solved. Received an email today from h - seems like it took him everything he had to write it and was so nervous about sending it he forgot to sign off so it looked un-finished !

He had a session with c on friday and the current sitch with him and me came up, mainly the conversation we had on thursday (which i really knew i had taken it a bit too far). Anyway, he took the weekend to process and settle his thoughts and then thought it inappropriate to send the email to me on our anniversary.

The email basically was about his feelings stemming from the conversation; that he did not fully realise what he was asking of me and thinks that he is making an already tough situation tougher and he has put me through enough. (at this point I was wondering where this was going)

He continued to say : "I will be open and honest, but I won’t be treated badly. I did not do anything wrong (apart from decisions), I did not cheat or lie. Being told you want to see the results of STI testing for example, is not acceptable. Trust needs to be there from the beginning, I feel I have earned it over our many years together. However if that isn’t how you feel, I accept that and we should discuss what can be done to rebuild it."

That was pretty much it. So I replied : "Trust - big word. I trusted you never to hurt me, I trusted you would not run away but stand and fight for us. So yes an element of trust has been broken and needs rebuilding. As for the STD request, I am sorry it offended you, I know you would not knowingly put me at risk, I apologise.

I know your feelings and thoughts are as valid as mine, that is a given. I also appreciate you being open and honest with all my questions. I feel I have only raised one issue and that was with her - and that was more because I don't want to have to try live up to an amazing women with bedroom antics of a flexible s&x goddess. Call it insecurity, call it what you will, it's something I had to remove from my head and you did that.

I can't say it's going to be easy, but surely it's my choice if I want to pursue this, if I want to compromise and if I want to give this a chance - i have free will"

His reply " I think you have just got my point, I wasn't questioning my want, more so your ability and desire to still be with me. Yes it is entirely your choice as to whether we go ahead, wasn't suggesting otherwise.

I want you to be comfortable, or as close to it as you can get, before we meet. That's all I was meaning to say."

I did reply briefly saying that I would not have suggested meeting up if I thought it was going to be a disaster!

So Bright - you were on the right lines ! Sounds like he needed to get this out there and did not want to send the email yesterday (anniversary) in case I blew the whole thing apart.

This really is tending to a poor wounded soul, he needs reassurance and validation that he is doing ok. Cali, I need to take a leaf from your book as you seem to be the master of this!

So we are back in the game peeps, It's not over yet, we live to fight another day.

Still no plans for my holiday, I did say I would give h until wed didn't I. A beach and a bottle of wine is on the list though, I really need a break.

Work wise - had a bit of a weird moment today, its taken me 5 weeks of proving myself to my merchandisers who display their products and were very negative about my ability to turn the department around, but one of them asked me if they could do something in particular with their display today and they said, it's your department, your call ......um, made me feel so grown up lol. Apart from the horrible anti social hours it's not a bad job really. I get to meet some very colourful characters and we now have the "most bizarre thing I have been asked for" game with the storeroom guys. To date it has to be two teenage lads asking if I sold cream to help them "grow in" their wispy beards ...... how I kept a straight face, bless them.

Ok, well that's all from me tonight. Anniversaritis has passed and we are on to the next page of this chapter.

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Hi Lou, I'm glad you are on the mend after your bout of anniversaritis! It's good that H was in touch again and explained how he feels about things. That's progress I think.

When I thought some more about your sitch this week....I think it is important not to let go of the positive signs. He has indicated interest in working on things, which is good. But it is also important to realise that this is at a very early stage and he may not have the resources to give you what you hope for just now.

I really think that your experience this week starkly illustrates the importance of low expectations. You had hoped that he would be in touch on your anniversary and that you guys could plan a meet up. How things played out has been a little different, and you were disappointed. Though it sounds as though a meet up may still be on the cards. But I think it is just a case of dialing back and accepting things as they are just now - not trying to move them forward too quickly. Quick actually isn't great at this stage. Slow and cautious is much better - more sustainable.

I'll keep following and hoping things keep moving in a positive direction for you guys. Hope your week is going well xx

Last edited by Sotto; 09/30/15 07:11 AM.

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Thanks Sotto, you are right, I allowed myself to get too close and I got burnt. It's easy said but harder to do in practice.

H text me as I finished work tonight, he wanted to say sorry for not being in touch today and that he wasn't ignoring me, he has been busy buying a car as he has sold his ute - more debts paid down - and helping s21. I replied "thanks for saying hello, I am glad you have found a car" a couple more texts and then we wished each other a goodnight.

Two more days and I am on holiday, I am really looking forward to it. I still have no plan, I am sure something will decide for me - I am a spur of the moment kinda gal.

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Lou,
I'm glad he posted to you and shared his thoughts w/you. I'm glad you were able to share your thoughts as well. Hopefully, the communications will continue to be open and he'll feel comfortable enough to continue sharing w/you. Trust is a word that is strongly used when reconciling, just as being transparent is. He's going to have to get use to those two words if he wants to win you back. He's still in the healing stage and it appears that his IC is helping him quite a bit.

I do hope that you enjoy your vacation and can leave the MLC situation behind for just a bit. You need to relax, have some fun and just go w/the flow.

I think you are doing great!


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Hello. I have no advice, just following your sitch and hoping you have a great vacation!

Sorry about the disappointing anniversary, but sounds like you are back on your feet again. I like the communication between your H and you. I only know your recent sitch, so I will need to go back and read your story. As the others have said, take it slow with no expectations. Seems to be the best way to go!


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Hi all, just an update and a 'please give me a pep talk" plea !

I am enjoying my vacation, I did mention a beach and a bottle of wine in a previous post - well, done both those things already. I found some interesting driftwood and shells on the beach so I bought them home and have put them on my porch, my little piece of the seaside every time I step outside my front door.

The wine was drunk whilst star gazing, its a favorite pastime of mine, I can't tell you about the stars, I just love looking at them.

Today I got a text from h asking if I was enjoying my vacation and had I something in my hand which had an umbrella in it yet. I replied yes it is very relaxing and I am not sure where he thinks I am but its more a beer bottle not an umbrella.

He mentioned I have been a quiet since last week and was everything ok? This is hilarious as I have been doing my nc and been waiting for him to contact me - so I told him that the same could be said for him and he replied that he gave up waiting and decided to check I was ok. Ha ha ha - so in this case he was waiting for me to contact and I was waiting for him to contact ....but he broke first ....oh I have learnt from the master, thank you job for your patience shovel, it serves me well :o)

Long conversation short, we ended up saying that both of us were waiting for each other to make the next move - I said that our sons are so much better at this! So I took the initiative and went for it

My text : So - I happen to be free this week, would you like to meet up?

H: Yes, that would be nice

Me: ok, then that's one decision down

H: driving now, will call you when I get home.

We spoke for quite a long time and have agreed that we don't want our sons to know about this until we are sure ourselves. It would be hard for us to spend time together if he came to me as s18 lives with me, so I have said I will go to him and whilst I am there catch up with s21. I suggested that I stay near by so that we have our own space to go to which will allow for us to process the meet without each other being around, h thought this was a good idea. So the current plan is for me to fly down on Thursday and spend Thurs & Fri with s21 and then meet with h Friday evening or Saturday morning and we will take it from there.

Got off the phone and do you know what was going through my head .....omg, what shall I wear ....seriously, I think that is the least of my worries !!! I feel like a nervous teenager on a blind date !!

So any tips, advice, anything to get me on the plane.

I know - zero expectations (easier said than done).

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Lou,
You've got this! I would keep things as simple as possible and just enjoy myself. I wouldn't rush into anything w/him because he's still not baked fully. You'll know more when he's there in front of you. Listen to what he has to say, but also watch his body language because that can be telling. If he suggests have sex, just be sure to have some protection as you don't know what he may have picked up along the way. (I know you already know this.)

I'm glad you've been enjoying your vacation and now you have something else to look forward to. Go and have a great time visiting your son and your h. Keep the expectations dialed down and just see what he has to say and where things go.

Good luck!


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Hi Lou, sounds like a good plan. I think it may be an idea to purely see how spending a little time in eachother's company feels. Like me, you haven't seen your H in a while and maybe it is best to just start reconnecting on a friendly level, and put anything more complicated for a later stage.

To me, things that fall into the 'more complicated' bracket would be romance, ML, R talks and so on. If you keep things at a friendly and relaxed....let's just spend a little time in eachother's company....that may be best. I know you've posted before about the 'will he feel that attraction to me again' concern. Well, he may or he may not....but I wouldn't rush into anything major this time around....plenty of time to get to know each other again..

JMHO...and what do I know really!! As for what to wear. Well, I would just dress to suit yourself and so you feel attractive and don't overthink that one.

I'll be thinking of you and hoping all goes well xx


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Hi Lou,
I've finally caught up on your story. WOW!
Lou, you are amazing! I cannot believe all you've been through in the past 16 months. You are much better than I am at controlling your emotions. I remember reading in your 2nd or 3rd chapter how one day you hoped you could help someone the way you were being helped here. Well, I'm that someone you have helped; thank you for your wisdom, kindness and support. I hope to be able to follow your example in NC and GAL.

Our stories are quite similar also. Your H's family situation sounds quite a lot like how my H grew up. I've come to believe that they have to re-create the trauma to finally heal from it. We're collateral damage... getting hit by friendly fire, to continue the analogy.

So I find myself wondering how it's going with you and H this weekend. I'm praying for you Lou, that this is a wonderful weekend. keep us posted! xoxoxo


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I just caught up and wow, really excited for you! You will do great. Please update us when you get back, wishing you a wonderful visit smile ((hugs))


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Thank you job, Sotto, Bttrfly and Mleigh, as always your support and words are very much appreciated.

I will catch up on everyone’s sitches over the next day or so, but hope everyone is having a lovely weekend.

So - how my weekend went !!

I met up with s21 on Thursday, we went for lunch and then went bowling, it was hilarious. Friday we went up the mountains to look at the view across the city. We went to the beach for a paddle in the sea. H text and asked me what I had planned for that evening, s21 was going hunting so I replied nothing planned and did he want to meet for dinner or a drink. H replied yes and that he would pick me up after work, go back to his house so I can see our dogs and then we can decide about dinner.

Thankfully I had time for a shower and change as I had not planned to see him until Saturday. I decided on a long summer dress that showed the “girls” off grin oddly I did not feel nervous. H arrived, he got out of his car and said Hi, cheesy grin, gave me a kiss and hugged me so tight saying “great to see you”. We went back to his place (nice house) and took the dogs for a walk. Lots of chatting and laughing, kept it light, catching up about the boys and life in general. We then got pizza and chatted until late, then he took me back to my motel. It was really difficult to read him, I was unsure of how he felt seeing me again or if he felt what he thought he feels for me, half of me waiting for the “I have made a mistake” speech again. We got to the motel, he got out and hugged me and then kissed me ….I mean really kissed me ….more hugs and he whispered “I am really looking forward to tomorrow”. Phew, ok, that was a bit better signal from him! As for me – it was ok, a bit weird kissing him, it felt comfortable but something was not quite right – not bad, but can’t quite put my finger on it.

Saturday we met up early and went for a drive across the mountains and had lunch in a café by a big lake and we went for a walk. When we got back h had a headache and wanted a snooze to get rid of it. Cheekily I lay down next to him, he smiled and fell asleep, at one point my hand was next to his and he held it. We both ended up having a power nap lol. We took the dogs for a walk and he held my hand, now that felt fine, natural. Then we went to the supermarket – ex ow rang him – I did not react, he spoke in front of me, it was about a bill he had forgotten to pay, there was no sentiment, he was matter of fact and kept it short and blunt, he told me what it was about straight away. I said nothing, just smiled. After shopping we went back to his house, had dinner and then watched a movie. We had a couple of short kisses during the day, but once again he gave nothing away. He took me back to the motel and I invited him in, which he did. He looked around and we chatted and then he hugged me and we kissed again, he stopped it, said goodnight and left.

Sunday morning he picked me up from the motel (kiss good morning) and we took the dogs for a long walk around some pretty bays, we then took them to the dog wash as they were really muddy, it was great fun and we had a good laugh. Once again we held hands on the walk and it was nice. We then went for lunch in a café and then off to get him some bits for the house.We went bowling and played some arcade games and had a really fun time, laughing and joking - its a side he has not seen of me for a long time.

On the way to the airport I asked him (I know I shouldn’t have, but it was not really r talk) where did he see this going from here. He was surprised at the question and said that he hoped it was the start of rebuilding us, he asked how I felt the weekend had gone for me. I replied that I had felt a little strange at times but I expected that, I was happy with how it has gone but was a bit worried about how he felt about it all as he had not given me many clues. H confessed that he does feel physical attraction for me and everything he has been feeling over the past few months has been confirmed to him this weekend, but he is having a problem with the physical itself and he did not expect this and he wants to talk to his c about it to resolve it. He described it as: the thoughts of what he wants to do ie: kiss, touch and ML are there, but when he kissed me that first night he was overcome with guilt feelings; the one person he never wished to hurt ever he has caused intense pain to. He said it felt like he had no right to be kissing me or wanting anything from me. The holding my hand was ok, he felt comfortable with that, it was just the kissing bit. He said he wanted to take things further all weekend, but then these feelings wash over him.

Obviously this is something I cannot help him with. He said I have not caused this and that I have never laid any guilt upon him, it’s all self -imposed and he is confident that talking it through with his c will sort the issue.

In the meantime, he has asked me to go back in November for longer and to stay with him. We have planned a few things we want to do, one is to go to the hot pools. We did not talk any further than November, but we have established that we both want to try and make this work. He needs to have space and time to continue to work through everything, he also needs to GAL on his own, which he is beginning to do now. I need to have my space to process my own feelings on it all and keep moving forwards with my own GAL.

He complimented my dress and mentioned he feels I am too skinny now and need to look after myself better!!– I grabbed my belly and said “look there is a lot more on me than you think” to which he replied “that is not fat, that is your baby belly, it’s part of you so be proud of it”. He engaged in conversation, asked questions and listened. He talked a lot more than he used to and we laughed and were relaxed in each other’s company, I just hope the physical issue will get resolved at some point – for both of us.

So as for how do I feel and how am I doing. Well, there were a few weird moments and I had to stop myself from allowing my head to run away with the odd ow thought, a few triggers (a picture she bought him on his wall, a few references to places they went – he always said “I “ went here, but I know it was really a “we” went here) but I managed to let them go. The physical – not loving the beard, but accept he does so it’s staying. The “wham” of attraction was not there, it was more a gentle familiar, it does slightly worry me that I did not get the "Phwoar" but have put that down to having my guard up ready for the rejection. I have come home calm, happy to be home and in my own bed but also looking forward to seeing him next month and talking to him over the next few weeks. I have no idea how this is going to work, we live so far away from each other now. We just have to allow things to unfold and see where this new path takes us. One thing he did request is that I contact him more as he feels he is doing all the initiating and does not understand why – can I break nc now?

So that is it, my weekend. All in all, it went as well as it could have. I forgot at times that we have not seen each other for a year! I am trying hard to focus on the here and now, not the past and not the future. Chapter 5 is lurking around the corner and its promising to be a hot chapter !!

Having lunch with a g/friend tomorrow and then vacation is over and back to reality on Tuesday.

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Hi Lou, I'm glad you guys had a good weekend. It certainly sounds as though it went as well as it could have done, and you have broken the ice now in a good way.

I would still think it is an idea to keep things pretty light and make contact sometimes - not always wait for him to initiate. Equally, I would keep investing in your own life and making plans just as you have been.

As for longer term plans and living a ways apart. I wouldn't even 'go there' at this point. Your former R ended in a cataclysmic way, you are just starting to reconnect, which is great. But neither of you need the pressure of - where will we live? - at this point. Best to keep your focus on the new R that you may build together.

Also, as for possibly being intimate next time. Again, I think if you can have a mindset of - it may happen and it may not - that will be best. He or you may or may not feel like doing that next time and that is okay. Again, the less pressure the better I think.

I think things are heading in a good direction. But there are two things to bear in mind. One is ongoing contact with ex OW, even if just about practical issues. The other is possible ongoing crisis issues. For both of those reasons, I would keep your expectations at a low level. For now, you are just reconnecting and rebuilding a friendship towards possible R. Neither of you need to be 'all in' right now - there is plenty of time for that.

Glad you had a nice time my friend xx

Last edited by Sotto; 10/11/15 11:53 AM.

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Lou,
I agree w/Sotto. It's okay to contact him once in a while, but allow him to come to you. Also, I wouldn't answer the phone immediately every time he calls. Keep things light and just enjoy the time you spend w/him.

He's baking up nicely and he knows he still has some "issues" to resolve.

Overall, you had a pleasant weekend and the friendship is being rekindled slowly but surely, i.e., which is the best way to go. Both of you have changed during this time and you both have to begin as friends and learn about each other again. This is a brand new relationship and neither of you can bring the old relationship back to life.

Keep those expectations low and continue as you have been. Live your life for you and when he's baked, he'll do whatever is necessary to earn your trust and love once again.


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Hi Lou,
So glad you had a wonderful weekend. I cannot give you any advice, since I have no clue what I'm doing in my own sitch but you have Sotto and Job and your own good instincts to guide you.

You continue to be an inspiration to me ...
xo,
bttrfly


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Thank you Sotto, job and bttrfly, great to hear from you all.

Originally Posted By: Sotto
Also, as for possibly being intimate next time. Again, I think if you can have a mindset of - it may happen and it may not - that will be best. He or you may or may not feel like doing that next time and that is okay. Again, the less pressure the better I think.


I agree totally. I don't have expectations on how any of this is going to go. The intimate side will happen when the time is right for both of us, I feel we need to spend a lot more time together becoming more comfortable in each others company, I certainly would not have gone down that road on this occasion even if he had initiated.

Originally Posted By: Sotto
I think things are heading in a good direction. But there are two things to bear in mind. One is ongoing contact with ex OW, even if just about practical issues. The other is possible ongoing crisis issues.


At the moment I am not worried about the contact with ex ow, she moved out of the house they shared at the weekend and now they have 2 weeks to get it cleaned and sorted to hand it back. I did not ask details but he spoke like he would be doing the gardens and cleaning on his own as the bond is his. I accept that there are loose ends to tie up as they shared the house together, but at the end of this month there should be no reason for any contact - he has said there won't be as he has no interest in her, he said he looks at her now and thinks "what was I thinking .....that was the problem, I wasn't". I remind myself that she came after me, he did not cheat on me, we were no longer together in his head, so whilst it is hard to know she has been in his life, I also accept that technically he did nothing wrong and I should not punish him for her. This does not mean I would ever be ok with him remaining friendly with her (which he tells me he has no interest in doing), it just means I trust what he is saying is true and accept that if he chooses otherwise its his decision to make and he will loose me as a consequence.

As for on going crisis issues - I am aware that this is far from over but at least he recognizes this too and as he comes up against things he tells me so I back off and allow him the time and space to sort it out - he takes it straight to his c. I feel he is now understands when he needs help - his words are - "my c gives me tools to put in my new tool box, I don't have them all yet, sometimes I try to use other tools to solve the problem but they don't work, so I then know I need a new tool designed for the task"

Originally Posted By: job
This is a brand new relationship and neither of you can bring the old relationship back to life.


This is so true job and neither of us want the old relationship back, we want a stronger healthier one where we both feel equal partners in it. I can see the potential for this to be a much better and fulfilling partnership as he has a new appreciation for me and I am stronger and more in control of myself which will make me a better partner for him. There are obviously a few downsides to already having history but the upside is that we have a head start on the little things and its those that keep the bond - its silly I know, but he cut my toast into triangles, I love that he remembered.

I know that this is not a done deal, we have a long road ahead of us and one or the other of us may decide that this is not what we want, but for now the "possibility" is still alive and moving in a forward direction.

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Hi Lou, I’m glad you had a great weekend. Thanks for posting all the details. It is always interesting to read about MLCer thought process and reasons. You H feels guilty in spite the fact that there was no OW when he ended the M. My situation was similar. I always thought that in my case there would be no guilt feelings or remorse because H didn’t cheat on me. In one of his “speeches” he told that he ending our M will actually be good for me. So, in his mind he actually was doing me a favor, LOL. From reading what your H told you, I think that it might not be true after all.

Originally Posted By: LouR
One thing he did request is that I contact him more as he feels he is doing all the initiating and does not understand why – can I break nc now?
I would be asking the same question in this situation. Intuitively, I would still not initiate much, just like job said, allow him to come to you. What would you do if it would be a brand new R with the new person?

Originally Posted By: LouR
I remind myself that she came after me, he did not cheat on me, we were no longer together in his head, so whilst it is hard to know she has been in his life, I also accept that technically he did nothing wrong and I should not punish him for her. This does not mean I would ever be ok with him remaining friendly with her
I would have similar feelings. It is not like a GF from the past, before you and H were together. I would want ow to be gone from H’s and my life too.

Lou, there is no doubt that you are stronger and more in control of your life and yourself. You will do great! Provided he will catch up and do his work too. I have a lot of hope for you.


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Hi Bright, thanks for stopping by and giving me support :o)

Originally Posted By: BrightFuture
You H feels guilty in spite the fact that there was no OW when he ended the M. My situation was similar. I always thought that in my case there would be no guilt feelings or remorse because H didn’t cheat on me. In one of his “speeches” he told that he ending our M will actually be good for me. So, in his mind he actually was doing me a favor, LOL. From reading what your H told you, I think that it might not be true after all.


It seems a lot of MLC'er have this feeling of guilt and shame about what they have done to their s and family, it must be really painful to look back and see that you caused so much hurt and destruction to the lives of those you love. In my h case he says he is struggling with guilt because he feels he does not deserve me after what he did. Why should he get to feel happiness, love etc when he took mine away - its something he has to come to terms with and accept if we are to move forwards. As a default setting of "waiting for the rejection email" I have a fear that his guilt is from him just using me to get him through this time. Insecure me coming out to play.

h text this morning as he heard that last night we had a fairly big Earthquake where I live. He wanted to know that we (S18 and me) were ok. We are and it was not as major as it sounds, it was a decent shake but was deep down and fairly quick so no damage done. Nice of him to check up on us though.

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Just realised I have not written much lately, its funny how in the beginning its everyday posting, looking for answers and trying to understand what has happened, getting support to push my life forward without h being in it anymore. Then it goes to weekly updates on how life is going, the day to day stuff that comes with moving onward, the realization that h may never return and accepting it. And now h is back in my life, after a flurry of hope its now slowed down again.

Whilst I do carry on with my own life, work and GAL activities, there is a strong element of h being a focus for me and the frustration that its going a snails pace does really get to me on some days and on others it allows me to stand back and ask "is this what I want, is he who I want".

Contact between us is random, I have backed off on initiation it, occasionally say hi, but generally its h that contacts first. We normally go about 4 days before he says hi and he always text, he does not seem to be able to call me, he says texting gives him time to form what he wants to say - this is such a turnaround for him, he was always quick and articulate in his words, now he has to think about it.

H continues to state that he wants to be with me, but he needs to sort himself out first, I respect that and know that he does have a lot of issues and as fast as they (h & c) resolve one they uncover more. The latest being the guilt feeling he has when he goes to have any physical contact with me, that has now evolved into having had that feeling when with ow too and it goes deeper than guilt, it now involves sex (h said he wont talk details with me, he does not have the tools to do so yet, plus unless he cant resolve it with his c then I have no need to know details). His c has told him he is confident he can help with it, so I have to hope.

H has also said that he will need ongoing help and sanity checks, whether that from a c or me, and that I need to respect that its his decision who he feels is best for him, I replied that I do respect it, I know I cant always be his "go to" but ask that he tells me when he is struggling so I don't worry he is building up to leaving again - until the trust is built again I need this - he agreed.

I see that it is going to be a really long time before he is ready and able to fully commit to a full relationship with me, he has voiced what he wants and that is as far as it goes really, which is really hard for me. I miss having someone in my life, I miss all that goes with that, so to know that it could be months, even years to getting it is quite challenging for me right now ...and the fact that it still may not happen with h even if I do stay the course is even harder to come to terms with, all that time waiting for him to be ready.

I am worried he will backtrack, I told him so when he asked why I have been distant with him (not contacting him), he said he wont backtrack, this is what he really wants, that he loved being around me again and all his feelings have been confirmed. He is worried I will backtrack on him as time goes on and more of what he has been feeling and thinking comes out and he worries that what he did to me and having ow in his life will always be there in the background.

IDK, this really is the hardest part. I am trying so hard to stay focused on me and what I want to do, to keep moving forward in my own life while he sorts himself out, always knowing in the background that this is far from a done deal. But I do find myself changing plans and thoughts to add him into the equation now, I find it very hard not to give him consideration.

So that's all from me, just rambling thoughts, nothing much that can be done a part from patience, something I struggle with. Thanks for listening and being a sounding board for me :o)

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xo


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Thank you for posting the update, I have been thinking of you. Boy, you really have to be strong to walk this path, huh? I don't think half the people I know would be able to make it this far. I admire your strength and your love for your H.

Funny how some days you miss your H so much, and others you just are not so sure....you seem like you are handling this well. We are always here for you to listen and offer our support.

(((hugs)))


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Hi Lou, I see lots of hope in your sitch. Your H wants to reconnect, he's aware that he needs to do some introspection and has things he wants to tackle, he's seeing an IC, dealing with financials and so on.

I can understand that for you, there's a big change in that he now features to an extent in your plans. And I can also understand the feelings of impatience - that must be difficult. We love our spouses and we hope that our M's might be saved. Of course it matters a lot to us if our spouse gives signs of wanting to reconnect.

However, he's also honest that there are things he needs to sort and he needs time to do that. I think if you can manage it, proportionality is the way to go. Think about how significant a part he plays in your life right now - and move ahead with your life on that basis. Right now, you guys are at the early stages of exploring whether you enjoy being in contact and spending time together. You're out of touch for a few days and then in touch again, then not. All of that sounds fine.

I think the best plan is to keep ploughing your own furrow for much of the time, but respond (and initiate sometimes) in respect of your H. Also remember, quick normally isn't good at times like these - slow is better.

Hope you have a lovely weekend xx


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Thank you so much bttrfly, meleigh and Sotto, it good to hear from you.

Originally Posted By: Sotto
I think the best plan is to keep ploughing your own furrow for much of the time, but respond (and initiate sometimes) in respect of your H. Also remember, quick normally isn't good at times like these - slow is better.


Yesterday I spoke to a g/friend who is a mental health and addictions support worker, she has been following my sitch and offering advice when I am stuck. I told her I wished h would show more "action" and get on with rebuilding our relationship -

Her answer "what do you think he is doing? He is showing you the biggest action of all. Think about it - he has said to you that you are the woman he wants to be with, but he also knows that if comes back into your life now, as he is, then he will destroy both you and the relationship and he does not want to do that. He has recognized that he needs help to sort himself out and he is doing that willingly, no matter how hard he finds opening up to someone and facing very personal issues, he is doing it. He is trying hard to accommodate you in all of this, to keep communication open, to see you and be near you even when it pains him to do so - you remind him of all that he has done, yet he knows its what you need so he agrees to everything you ask of him, even when he does not feel he can give it. He is showing you that you are important to him. Be patient, he will come through this, he will come to you when he is ready. He has been and is going through a big ordeal, you cant see it because its all internally happening, allow him this time and he will love you more for it."

Wow. This is true, this is a big action from a broken man. I know I have been pushing him and I need to stand back and allow this to unfold at his pace, even if that does take months ....but hopefully not years ....

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Your friend sounds wise. I admit, I admire your H for recognizing he is still working through things and keeping you away from that. We have seen how messy it gets when they come back too soon....

I agree with others that this is the most important time to take it slow. Stay focused and busy, you got this smile


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Hi LouR- thanks for posting your H's thought process. I am quite impressed by
his self awareness and his ability to play out how things need to happen.

You are showing incredible patience. Kudos to you.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
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Lou,
I know you are anxious to reconcile, but your h isn't ready to do so yet. He recognizes that he's got a lot of work to do and it's going to take time, i.e., on his time clock, not yours.
Be happy that he's talking to you and telling you that he's working on himself. Many don't get this rare opportunity, so, no more pressure. Allow things to progress at their own pace. I want to see you both happy and together, but you've got to let him move slowly at his pace.

Keep the focus on you and dig deeper for more patience.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thanks job, I know....I have to put him back in the "friend" zone. Hard but its got to be done because its messing with my life and putting to much pressure on him.

I see that I am not the norm when it comes to reconnecting and that my h has been more open and honest about what he is feeling and going through than most MLC'ers. I am lucky he is doing what he needs to before he commits fully to working on us. He is frustrated with himself as he expected to be further along by now, he says he feels a failure but knows this takes time and commitment. Tbh I think its shocked him that he has so many issues, things he never knew were an issue he finds are; it must be quite demoralizing to know that you spent your life thinking you knew things you actually didn't and that your decisions and actions have affected so many lives in a negative way.

This weekend has been about looking at my own life (omg, I hope its not the start of a mlc !!) I see that I am 45 and have no home, career, partner and generally a crapola life, I know its only me that can change things, but when I look back at the fact I had all that, a home I loved, a role in life I enjoyed, a partner who I adored, its been hard going trying to rebuild from that. Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for all that I do have and what I have achieved since h left, I know I have had an easier time than most and that I have had this time to work on myself and my own issues that I now won't take forward with me, I am a better person and a stronger woman for all this, so I don't feel any of this has been wasted time, yet I still have this sadness and loneliness, this dissatisfaction with how my life is right now.

Now in saying that, I know more than most that we never know what is around the corner, tomorrow, next week, next month or even this afternoon, all could change, something could happen that changes everything. So keeping the faith that this is where I should be right now and the answers will come to me.


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Lou,
Just as a thought experiment, I want you to dream about what you would do, what goals would you set, if H suddenly evaporated off of the planet?

Just take him out of the equation for a moment and ask yourself: what do I want to do with my life? What is the path to financial security and personal fulfillment for ME?

As a homemaker, you relied on your H to handle the finances. Unfortunately, as you've learned, that trust was misplaced.

In any new relationship with him, you're going to want to be in control of your financial future. You've got 20 more years of working ahead of you, if you retire at 65. You can accomplish a lot in twenty years.

What do you dream of doing?

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Hi kml

Originally Posted By: kml
In any new relationship with him, you're going to want to be in control of your financial future. You've got 20 more years of working ahead of you, if you retire at 65. You can accomplish a lot in twenty years.

What do you dream of doing?


That is my big problem - I was doing what I enjoyed doing, being a mum and homemaker. I had my little farm and grew all my fruit and veggies, made all our food from scratch, a pantry of jams and chutneys, pasta sauces and fresh bread. Cooking is not something I want to do as a career, it put the pressure on and takes the enjoyment away from what I love about it - the growing it, cooking it, eating it process.

I thought about going into business for myself - making a product to sell at farmers markets and local businesses, but I don't have the financial start up - I have looked into grants and loans but i need to have a start up fund which I don't have. I also need a home with an approved kitchen and as I rent now I can only achieve that by renting industrial kitchen space and that makes the project non cost effective.

So I am back to the start - my goal is to buy my own home again. I have been paying into a fund each week through my wages which the government match my payments and then I can access it for a deposit on a house when I am in a position to get a mortgage. I would love a little cottage by the sea, that is my dream. I need a job that can sustain a mortgage and currently I don't earn enough to get one, I need to go up about 2 pay brackets, which is not an easy task when I am starting from the bottom. I know its not impossible and will keep working on it.

I am not relying on h coming back in to my life and making everything better again, that is the worst attitude to have !! I have my goals - a home, a better paid job and a fulfilled life. I want to look back on my life and know that I did not waste it.

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Hi Lou,
Firstly, you continue to be an inspiration to me. I have read your posts from the beginning, as our sitch's are somewhat similar. My stars, woman, you have come so very far in such a short time! Imagine what your life will be like in 5 or 10 years?! Very exciting! You may not realize it today, but you really have done a remarkable job under the most adverse conditions. That my friend takes grit, make no mistake about it!

Secondly, you and your H are in the precarious reconnecting stage. I say precarious because I've read it's so, not because I have any personal experience there. As Job says so wisely, I think the best thing to do is to dig deeper for patience (like you haven't already had to dig deep for patience?!).

I'm only 6 months into our separation, post BD, and the good Lord knows I have the patience of an angry hornet sometimes ... but in those moments when I can actually practice patience actively, things are better. I can't believe the amount of patience that's required of us LBS ... and yet, I also feel that in some ways it's far easier to be the LBS than the MLCer.

Keep your eye on the prize, whatever you ultimately feel that prize to be. I like that you have articulated your goals. You will get there, one step at a time. Thank you for continuing to share your journey here. Sending you much love and support. xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
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That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Sending you good vibes Lou. It is wonderful to hear you and your H are communicating. i wish I had something wise or witty to add but I am not one to have any real answers. Lou - you are doing so well and you have a heart of gold. Invest in yourself and keep the faith. Your future is bright my friend.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
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“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
&#8213; Maya Angelou



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Hi Lou, I also think you are doing so well. For years, you had lived the family life you wanted and then that was blown out of the water. But you showed a lot of grit, picked yourself up and are building a different life for yourself (life is always about plan B....so they say.)

Equally, you're handling the changing situation with your H wanting to be in touch and the hopes that raises - and you're doing that calmly and thoughtfully. I'm full of admiration. Yes, there are things that you'd like to do in terms of housing and a level of earnings you'd like to attain - those sound like great goal areas to me - something to work towards.

Good luck with everything. Your thread is one that has helped me a great deal xx


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BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

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Thank you so much everyone for your kind words, I am so humbled that you all think so much of me, its times like these you discover that there are truly amazing people in the world - so thank you to all you amazing DB folk; you keep me going through my dark days and you celebrate my good days.

My story is far from over, currently its a tale of adventure, hardship and intrigue, a plot full of twists and turns. Spoiler alert - in my story the heroine does win the day grin and who knows, it still has potential for a fairytale ending.

Love and hugs to you all xx






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I have not updated for a couple of weeks, I haven't had much tell.

All aspects of my life seem to be messy right now, I know that all these challenges are growth for myself, it would be nice though if they would stagger themselves rather than all come along at once.

Work - It is pushing me physically to my limits, I am certainly fitter from it, but shattered and aching at the end of my shift. Mentally it has taken me to the end of tolerance , I am thankful that I am nearing my next holiday. A couple of things have happened which made my mind up that I will be leaving in January.

Home - S18 is still unemployed and we now have g/friend living with us (long story). I feel like a lodger in my own home now, so that has added to me making my second decision - I am going to move in the New Year. I only came to where I am to help s18 out and get him through college, so now I am free to move to somewhere I would like to be.

H - things continue to move slowly in this area. Its been a couple of texts a week, I try to make sure it remains only chit chat, no r talk. Then the texts started to get further apart and we ended up going a week before I text him to say hi. This resulted him in explaining the reason for not texting me - he feels its always him initiating so decided that he would wait for me to contact him for a change. He went on to say that he appreciates that this situation is not easy for me and if he had a wand he would wave it so he could be sorted out now, but he doesn't, however that does not mean that he doesn't want any kind of relationship with me, it just means he can't fully commit to me romantically right now. I replied to him that I did not want him to feel I was being pushy. His reply "your not being pushy, that kinda my point" ???Not sure what that means - does he WANT me to push this along?

This has been an issue for a while now, he wants me to do 50% of the contact ( I wonder if its insecurity about me still being in this) and I have been doing what I have been advised to do and make him do the contacting, but it seems that its become an issue for him so I am not sure what to do now.

I have my November holiday coming up 21st November, I asked him a few weeks ago about visiting him but said I would have to stay with him as I can't afford a motel this time. He asked what dates I had in mind and I told him. He then said which dates would be best for him to devote time entirely to me (his words), so I then said to him to think about it and let me know as I would like him to be comfortable with me being around him and want to leave him wanting more me, not wanting more therapy ha ha" He sent a smiley face back. That was 3 weeks ago and no answer for whether he wants me to visit - I know that the day before he will be asking me my flight details !! But I have not asked him if he has decided as I feel that's pushing .....again we are back to this ...

Does he want me to hold his hand and just tell him what I am doing "oh by the way darling I am visiting in November for a few days, staying with you, so go buy a new bed for me, oh and just to let you know I am quitting my job in January and moving in with you" ........ grin grin wink Nah, think this may be taking it one step too far he he

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Lou,
I know we always tend to say "let them come to us", but in your case, maybe it's time to start communicating w/him just a wee bit more. He seems to need that contact from you at the moment.

Also, I would drop him a line and again ask about the holiday. You need to know so that you can make your ticket reservations. It's not being pushy, it's been practical for you at this time.

Sometimes we have to try different things to see what works. In your case, maybe it's time to start doing some 180's to see how he responds. Time to try something new.

BTW, I'm sorry you feel like a lodger in your own home. I can understand your desire to move and also the job issue. When it becomes too much and you come home tired and beat and do not enjoy the time you spend on your job, then it's time to start looking.

Good luck!


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Hi Lou, I'm glad to see an update from you; I've been wondering how you were getting along. I agree with Job that I don't see the harm in reaching out and keeping in touch that little bit more - and just gauging the response. You can always do a gradual thing and pull back a little if your H doesn't come back to you. He's given you that feedback, so it seems reasonable to adjust your approach I think. I take the push comment to mean that he would like to hear from you a little more....not to push things along as such - but just be 'there' and 'in touch' on a light basis a little more often. To me, push means trying to move things along to the next stage, which I would avoid right now.

Interesting that he didn't come back to you on the trip though. I wonder if he perhaps feels a little overwhelmed with that one? I agree though - you have plans to make and if you can ask with no expectations and then make your plans - that all seems fine to me.

Sorry things have been challenging at work and home. So, what are your plans for January....do you plan to move back to the area where H is? I can see the merit in not being a plane ride away if you are slowly trying to reconnect. I guess my note of caution is that he is still digging within himself to deal with things (which is great) and is saying he doesn't have much to offer romantically right now. And I think fair enough on his part to be that honest.

If you do plan to move and it suits you to move - might it be best to do it under your own steam and plan to live independently but closer - and see how that goes? ie; making plans for a life for you in the area and hoping that you and he may also reconnect further? It strikes me that you are at an early pre-piecing stage, where you have started to reconnect, but all still quite tentative, with him sounding pretty fragile - albeit willing in time....timid squirrel.

Just my thoughts anyway Lou....and of course I am no vet - just dealing with the twists and turns of life as best I can. smile

Take care and good luck with your plans xx


Last edited by Sotto; 11/11/15 01:04 PM.

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Hi LouR - Good to hear from you. Sorry things are rough at work.

It sounds like your husband is trying to communicate his needs, which is a healthy thing!

You show tremendous kindness and patience towards him.

Thinking of you and sending you positive karma.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
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I'm glad you've updated as I've been wondering what's up in your world and how you are doing.

So, my thoughts are that he has asked you to contact him more frequently, so it's ok to do the 180 from what you've been doing and start contacting him more frequently.

Re: the trip - I have no idea if this is right or wrong, but I wonder if you couldn't call him on the phone rather than text/email? The reason I say have an actual conversation is that it is SO easy to misinterpret texts/emails. You get more info on phone and even more on skype or facetime. Maybe text him and ask if he is open to a phone call or skype session to discuss the travel dates? Any DB Vets think that's a bad idea?

I'm sorry everything is messy. I know the feeling well. It's very uncomfortable, and I would wish you peace somewhere in your life, dear Lou. I'm glad you've made the decision to leave the job. Update the resume now while you're there - start a list at work of what you do and add a little more to it while you are there at the end of every day - kind of like a journal of what you did that day. That way you'll remember everything when you do the actual updating on your off time. Make sense?

I'm sorry your home isn't feeling like yours any longer frown try to carve out some personal time for yourself.

Hang in the Lou - you're in my thoughts and prayers xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

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A box full of darkness.
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Thanks for your responses.

bttrfly - h does not like to phone/skype at this time as texting gives him time to formulate his replies. This crisis has really affected his head and he cant think as fast and as clear as he used to. He find sit hard to put things in to words, so texting/emailing gives him the time to work it out.

So I asked him about me visiting next weekend - he said he had thought about it and yes he would love to see me, but could we meet elsewhere because its come out that where he now lives could be compounding his guilt issue when with me - the therory is that he has created 18months of negative history so having me come to the place where he made it triggers the guilt feelings.

All was going ok, but then he started to backtrack and it all became too difficult - it turns out that he booked a trip away to meet up with his old work buds, he now cant afford to come away and meet me to, plus s21 is away next weekend so cant look after the dogs, plus it would be the 2nd weekend in a row he would have been asked to do it. Then h got the guilt on himself as I had asked him weeks ago before his trip with the boys came up, and he feels he has let me down, plus feels that I should be his priority, more guilt. Then it was guilt about disappointing me. Then we got to him not looking forward to his boys trip any longer - to which I replied, that I am sure once he is with them all he will have a great time.

I did come up with another option of us finding a place nearer to him and taking the dogs with us - but looking at flights for me, renting a cottage and fuel to get there, the cost for one night is a much as a week away abroad now, as we left it too late so prices gone up.

If I cant visit him or entertain the idea of moving to the same place so we can at least see each other more often, then until he gets to a place in himself where he can shut the door on his history and start a new life as a new man in a new place then I cant see how this is going to work out. Another hurdle to overcome ....which if we really want it to, we will.

I agree job, things need to have a change up - he said his therapist told him that he got into a relationship to avoid having to deal with his issues, so it was never going to work as he was in denial. He understands now that this was not another "failed" relationship per say, it was one that would have never worked out. H said that whilst he is doing what is best for him, he is also doing what he feels is best for me, he does not want him to live an altered life to please someone else as it does not work as we have found out.

He also said that his therapist agrees that he does not need to talk about this with anyone else outside them, as his feelings and thoughts may all be transient, so it may be a needless conversation that only causes confusion and pain for all parties. Until he knows what is staying and what is going and what he is prepared to live with, then he would like us not to discuss his current issues. Once he knows what and who he is then he will talk to me about it.

I feel that I need to put him to background again, just carry on as best I can, not putting the pressure on a having a r with him. He knows what I want and where I stand, so I have done all I can for now. He is going to discuss my current situation with his therapist, so that he can advise me of whether I should include or disclude him for any near future plans I am making (job change, move etc).

So looks like we wont get to meet up, but thats ok, I was really disappointed at first and felt like yes I was not a priority for him, especially as I asked him well before the boys did, but I realise that it is a part of his life he would also like to encourage and a happy h is a better h for me. I have not put the guilt on about it, I hope that he had a good time so it gives him a boost. It will be next weekend when he knows he should have been spending it with me that will give him a down time I expect.

He could come up to me in the next few weeks, he could see s18 and then spend a day with me, he suggested it as an option - I have left this one alone as I have not told him our weekend is not going to happen yet - speaking to him tomorrow. Will see if he suggests it again.

This really is going to be a long road, I suppose I did not get my head around this properly. The not being able to visit him let along move nearer has been a kicker for me.

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Hi Lou, I'm sorry the visit didn't work out, and that plans for moving may also change. I can understand your disappointment, but I also think you handled things really well.

I do see many positives with your sitch. It sounds as though the therapy for your H is helpful and he is genuinely gaining new insight from that. From my perspective, it will be so good for him to work through all of this. And I think that would probably be more difficult with trying to rebuild your R into the mix.

That said, he ultimately sounds committed to doing this - albeit not on the timescales you might have started hoping for. It is important to remember that he is still in crisis. And whilst it sounds to me as though the replay stage has ended - what follows needs to be some serious introspection to understand why he 'ran' in the first place.

For now, I would keep looking after Lou as your number one priority and keep the comms channels open with H. Accept and be glad for what you have now and enjoy the things you have in life today. In the longer term, you and H may both feel ready for some serious rebuilding, but he has some work to do on himself first and I'm glad he realises this.

Take care my friend - you are doing really, really well xx


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Lou,
I totally agree w/what Sotto posted. You have to remember that he's not on the same timescale that you are. His clock is very, very slow and it took years for him to go into crisis and it will take a while for him to come out the other end. Therapy is helping him and I hope he remains committed to working on himself.

For now, keep the focus on you and what you need to do to find a new place and a new job.

Take care!


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Great post Sotto. I agree with it all.

The therapy your H is getting sounds terrific and I like that he is sharing it with you. I too am sorry it's all not moving quickly enough, we sure see that time and time again!

It sounds like you are on the right track and are doing well. Hang in there, I see so much positive in your sitch and hope that your H is working well through his issues.


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Thank you so much Sotto, job and Mleigh. reading your messages was the boost I needed today

I spoke with h this evening - trying to condense an 1 1/2hr phone call into a post is not going to happen so will give you the key parts.

We have decided that spending so much money on what is ultimately a 30hr visit is silly. He very much wants to see me again but would rather wait until we can have more time together. We discussed when my next time off will be and its been decided he will come to me for 4 days - Arriving Christmas Eve smile so we will be spending Christmas together. He will drive up and bring the dogs, s18 will be here with his g/friend, so I will ask s21 if he wants to come up to.I had to mention its the sofa or my bedroom and he said my bedroom if that's ok, but how were we going to explain to s18 (our boys don't know about me and h being anymore than separated parents that weirdly talk alot!!) I said s18 wont think anything of it, in fact it prob would not surprise him at all, he thinks our relationship is "the most bizarre split on the planet"

He said it will also give him a few more weeks in therapy so hopefully will be a bit further ahead in himself.

We talked my future plans and came up with something that fits with us both, which gives him the space he needs and me the direction I need.

So the plan as it stands (which is always subject to change on this journey !!) is that I will try stick my job out until mid feb. I have a girls holiday planned for the end of Feb. Then I will go to the UK for a couple of months, I feel I need to draw a line under the UK and know that I am living in NZ because I want to, not because h is here or my kids are here - but because I choose to be here for myself and to be with them. (to give background, I came to NZ because h got offered a job and we thought why not, I was not that keen to leave my newly started job and friends, but it meant a lot to h and I always have followed him to wherever he went, this have been an issue for me without really knowing it was. I now need to close this door to move forwards with h). I will then return to NZ and move to the South Island to where a dear g/friend lives, its about 5hr drive from h, which means logistics for seeing each other will be easier, this will hopefully get more regular until we are ready to make it more permanent. H is hoping (and this is not set in stone, I know this, I won't be holding him to it, this process will take as long as it takes) that by the time his rental lease is up in Sept next year he would like to be at the point of us starting afresh somewhere new, together. Its not the time frame that surprised me, its the fact he has thought about all this - just goes to show that we have no idea what they think about !!

He opened up a bit more about what he has been thinking about and what he wants to change within himself, he said he does not want to discuss some things with me yet as he may not need to, which is fine by me. I told him there are things I don't wish to discuss with him yet either, but may do one day, or their importance may disappear, he said he feels the same way.

H had a really good weekend which I am so happy about. He said he did talk to one of the boys that he knows has reconciled with his partner after a break and told them he and I are trying to work things out - in fact, get this , he had told him a few months ago when they met up for another jolly weekend .....so they talked about it and h asked his friend for his advice on how to make it work, his friend told him that is the best thing he ever did, his relationship is much better and stronger now, but it takes a lot of communication and hard work, they have tough times still but its worth it. Great for h to hear.

Today has been a good day. I went to the pub with my g/friend, was sober driver on this occasion, but still a nice way to spend an afternoon. Spoke to h early evening and then went to my g/friends for dinner.

I don't want to waste my holidays so I have will have to think of a few nice things to do. 5 days to go ..... grin

Thanks for reading. Onwards and Forwards I go





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