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Help

Abuse is very tough for adults, let alone for children. Frankly, I want to just wrap the young version of Help with great care and go punch the abusers, I have specific unpleasant thoughts about it........

It's what dear Wonka calls FOO (family of origin issues).

How does your low self esteem show itself, is it the same pattern every time?

Are there specific triggers for you with W.

You can tell me if you need privacy on this, it's OK.

Healing those issues and childhood trauma is one of the most important things you can do for you. Frankly I am not surprised about the control issue considering the issues you mentioned. However I do think your W lack of boundaries is her issue to deal, just as my lack of boundaries was mine. Dealing with soft boundaries makes having a rough and tumble resilient R is very difficult. How can you know when things aren't right if there are no boundaries?

Just let W responses go..... 'Whatever'. Crumbs or not, you don't have to nibble.


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Help,

It's amazing how close are stories are. I've been married 18 years, we have 6 children, but I too was verbally and emotionally abusive and my WW has found comfort in the arms of another man that is providing her with all her emotional needs. I'm just sick about it all.. I feel for you. I don't know how you can handle seeing the OM. My W told me today that I will never be allowed to speak to or approach her OM. She defends him.. Over her husband?! It's the most painful thing in the world...

I unfortunately am not doing well with any sort of 180... I was good for about a week and then I crumbled. I am not strong. So I admire your strength in being able to make your life better and change around your behavior.

I will be following your story more closely now. Good luck to you friend and God bless you.


BD Oct 2014
S Dec 2014
D filed Feb 20, 2015
D on hold as money ran out for attorneys and the marital home's future is up in the air

D18
S17
S15
S13
S11
S8
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help67 Offline OP
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One way my self esteem issue showed up was when things would be going good, I would sabotage any chance at success, deep down not thinking I deserved it. I would stop drinking, really wanting to quit, but would wind up going back after some time. In school I could have straight A's and not show up for a final exam. I would be fearful to try things I wanted to. In my m, it would be good for some time and I would sabotage that, not even knowing it.

The dynamic of this and no my w not good with her boundaries made it easy to be in a bad cycle. I thought about triggers, but I believe it was the lack of boundaries that was my w biggest contribution.

My w family was worse than mine, they d when she was 12 yrs old, my d just turned 13 yrs old. My w said that the cycle was continuing, meaning she had to leave because of my behaviors, her father was and still is addicted to many things. It was the one time since bd that I got mad at my w, saying I was not her father, that I will choose my family, and do whatever I have to, and I believe I am. My w is working on boundaries and not taking behavior she doesnt deserve anymore.

9 1/2 months sober today, and I love that. I am playing guitar again, something I always wanted to be good at, but kept quitting. Learning how to meditate, reading a lot of self-help, buddhism books, relating to my d better, love IC and my therapist is great. These things are all real for me, and theres more good thing to come.

I read something today that applys very much to my old thinking, it was STOP HOPING FOR A BETTER PAST.


Me:47
W:47
D:12
T:27yrs.
M:17yrs.
S:10/14
Wife wants legal sep., which can be divorce after 1 yr.
om b 7/15 but probably a lot longer
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help67 Offline OP
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Hi prowl,

I have followed your sitch, and have felt the same intense pain that you have, there were days i didn't think i would make it. I came to realize the pain was not about losing my w as it was as much about all the pain I caused my family, myself included.

I disagree with your assesment of yourself, you have admitted to the problems you have, the abusive behavior and that takes a strong person. Most people never come to that point and wind up in another bad marriage, second marriages are more likely to fail for that reason.

I dont remember reading if you are in IC, but it has helped me tremendously. Read as much as you can, you will find out there are a lot of people just like us, and if you do the work things will improve for you, just be patient and kind to yourself.

The om thing is tough, but the less energy you put into thinking about it, the better chance of it failing sooner. Put that energy into working on yourself and loving your children, and things will improve.

Last edited by help67; 07/22/15 12:04 AM.

Me:47
W:47
D:12
T:27yrs.
M:17yrs.
S:10/14
Wife wants legal sep., which can be divorce after 1 yr.
om b 7/15 but probably a lot longer
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Help really terrific post.

Prowl are you ok?

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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help67 Offline OP
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Hi V,

Thanks. I wanted to let you know that the last couple of posts between you and Fogg were very helpful, and pertinent to my life.


Me:47
W:47
D:12
T:27yrs.
M:17yrs.
S:10/14
Wife wants legal sep., which can be divorce after 1 yr.
om b 7/15 but probably a lot longer
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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I am going to ask you a question, no need to answer if you aren't ready.

Exactly what about the post on Foggs thread resonated for you?

Is there something to explore in your own sitch, if so is that something you would like to do? Are you ready for that, only you would know. I am willing to listen.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 07/24/15 05:14 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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help, just read up on your threads. Glad V's questions to me in my thread are helping you also. Its rough to look deep inside to answer certain questions about ourselves but I think its very worth it to discover who we really are, and who we are meant to be.

You were able to tell W about how hurt you were, with coaches advice. You are also building that friendship with her even when shes in the A. My path so far has been a bit different with how angry she was in the beginning. I had to set boundaries to gain respect back but at this point I think were going in a similiar direction. Friendly encounters and at some point in the very near future I will likely be telling W( from a place of strength) that her actions since BD have hurt me. Coach mentioned something very similiar toward the end of our first session but It may be more about what shes doing to herself and not to me.

Anyway, just wanted to say you're not alone. This is a very difficult experience but one in which has allowed many of us to change in ways we never would have otherwise. No matter what happens the work you put in now will benefit your life int he future.


Last edited by Fogg; 07/26/15 01:01 AM.

Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
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help67 Offline OP
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Hi V,


One thing was the fear of being unlovable or that you don't love yourself, and that is just it, I have not learned to love myself, quite the opposite. If I can't love myself, then I am not allowing other people to love me, and I can't love other people. I am learning to love myself, and there is so much to learn, and it will take time.
It was hard for me to talk to people, make eye contact, keep a conversation going, meet new people, things like that. I am reading a lot about Buddhism, and it feels like it was the something really missing in my life, I have never been into any religion because the dogma always turned me off.
So I am doing things like smiling more, looking at the things I do have and being grateful for them, connecting more with people, coming from a place of love, compassion for myself and others. It is a long process to change, but I am doing it. I don't find myself dwelling in my past so much as far as what i have done to myself, but when it comes to my wife, all I want to do is tell her how sorry I am, and let her know that for the first time I truly get it. I still very much hope that day comes and its because she wants to be with me too.
I am reading the Art of Happiness, and that is what i want to be, happy.

Last edited by help67; 07/26/15 06:30 PM.

Me:47
W:47
D:12
T:27yrs.
M:17yrs.
S:10/14
Wife wants legal sep., which can be divorce after 1 yr.
om b 7/15 but probably a lot longer
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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If you were deep into Foggs post you will realise that not loving yourself isn't an action, it's a thought. I am not loveable and for some reason I need others to love me before I do the work to love myself.

That thought leads to self sabotage (behaviour) and it isn't useful.

The 'cavern' mentioned in within us.

Actually loving yourself can change in an instant if you want it. It's a thought which has become a belief, I believe I am unloveable. Change that belief and you give yourself permission. The other things you mention are shyness not love. The release and giving up alcohol are loving things to do, the disease of alcoholism doesn't define you. You are not what you think or do, that is conditional, if you are in reverie sometimes that isn't self love, and if you are down that's not self hate. You are worth loving just because of your humanity, it is enough to be, we are human beings not human doings. You are part of love by merely existing and living, I sense you are on the side of the Angels (even if not one yourself ) that is enough.

There is also another belief in your post that if I am not loved then I can't love. It's a generalisation and some locked thinking that can be shaken free very easily. A quid pro quo that holds no water at all. Like saying grass is green, all green things are grass. None of it is true, some grass is yellow and there are many other green objects. Try this instead: I love my daughter and she loves me. I am loveable because I am loved. How can I deny myself the capacity to love when I need this in my life so as not to deny others.

This belief would have started young but it isn't something you have a duty to hang onto. Beliefs change with realisations of inconsistencies, and this is one, like a chain when one link is cut the ball falls free. You don't have to break every link to free that ball from the ankle chain.

If any one belief breaks this changes. I am convinced this isn't fear it's more cerebral, a thought or a belief that's causing it.

So I challenged Foggs belief and he discovered that he loved his children and they love him. So where is the unloveable and unloving Fogg? If you have love with just one person then the whole fallacy disintegrates. (Black swan). Children are the ideal challenge to make this belief go poof! If you can spot that for Fogg then draw the parallel for yourself. You are worthy of your daughter's love (which is her choice not yours) thus it's enough and if you love your daughter, the irrational belief will not hold. You won't reject the gift of love from your D, but you do reject your love for yourself, you only think you reject your own love. But like the elephant in the room, Help is loved we just proved that and only Help cant see the elephant. All of this thinking is derived from Socrates so it's well established, you could try googling Albert Ellis and his rationality, the art of happiness has some roots there.

So I think for you Help, that cavern isn't empty of emotion, it's just blocked because a big stone covers the entry, roll it away and all will start to clear. It truly isn't a long process to change, thoughts change quickly.

Firstly give yourself permission to love and be loved and to be loveable. Happiness is about becoming as things change this will happen. It seems to me Help has enormous love and care in his life and all he needs to do is accept that. Then the emotions will unblock and below that the feelings and below that the physiology will change. All because you unblocked.

It sounds easy because that part is easy, what isn't easy is demonstrating that love. Much harder to do, but by standing for your M and yourself, you are loving yourself already. I observe that the thought and belief are stopping you observing that.

It is a different issue to Foggs but the conseqence is the same. If you said V I am afraid to show the love then that takes strategy. That's a how question instead of where question.

Calmly ask have I loved in my life? Am I taking W loss as a generalisation. Moving from the current situation to every situation?

You have done well Help, and I would really like you to sit and just be with all the overwhelm gone, and the love pouring into the cavern. This love is unlimited. I project that to you over the miles. It will come easily to you, I know it will.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 07/26/15 10:57 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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