Going to journal some thoughts and self reflections.
1. Detachment is my biggest challenge. I am showing it but am not feeling it fully. Meaning I am not showing my emotional reactions to W but they exist.
2. Stopping the chase (pursuit) is more effective than what I had been doing.
3. My wants are exactly what Cali stated. I want my W to ask me to come home. I want her to work with me on building a new relationship. I want her to realize that past wounds can be healed and new beginnings can be realized.
4. My needs are to be loved. Be appreciated for who I am. To be given emotional and physical intimacy and love. To be in a relationship that is a partnership based on compromise, compassion and communication.
5. I accept that only she can come to this realization in her own way. I cannot make her realize it. I don't like that I can't control the situation but I can't.
6. I am a fixer.
7. I am torn on if my W is lying to me about her friend or OM or whatever he is. I have seen enough that anyone would think she is lying. I want to set boundaries but I am scared to because what if I am wrong. I want her to stop telling half truths. I want full transparency. I am uncomfortable that they speak daily. That she spend a lot of time with him around our children but will not give me the time of day. I am angry about this and do not know what to do. For now I am keeping my mouth shut. But this situation does not look like what she says it is.
8. My W has started speaking with me every few days on her terms. Not mine. She is undecided on divorce and has asked for complete space between these conversations. This has been occurring for about a week and a half. Her standpoint is that the only reason she is considering working on R right now is for the kids. She doesn't love me. Doesn't trust me. She does believe the best possible outcome would be if we could reconnect and be happy together for both us and for the kids.
Some things I am starting to be somewhat successful with from a DB standpoint: Keeping my emotions in check while working on detaching. Resisting calling and texting. Going about my business. Implementing STFU on things I want to just blurt out. Especially about her friend.
I'd especially like some input on this friend situation. Boundaries etc.
So how did you battle it? I caught up on your sitch a bit and it looks like you and your W are starting to turn the corner.
I cannot express how happy I am for you Cali.
BE ... sorry just seen all this.
Well, in my case it was a 2 year battle ... no lie. Like you .. I had some major changes that needed to happen. The fear you shared in this last point .. yup ... been there, done that , have the T shirt.
Trust this process, work on you .. your W is going to do whatever whenever and however, you are starting to realize there is nothing you can do to change that, use this time to work on you .. continue it .. do the work.
Its a long haul, and at some point, just like working out at the gym, you will start looking at that guy in the mirror, not in the physical sense .. but in the emotional sense and realize all the work you have done, has resulted in a pretty good stand up guy, a guy who matters, a guy who deserves better than what he has been accepting all these years.... then a light goes off. With or without W you will be ok. Then that fear you have .. its gone.
When and if your W gets to a point she can commit to working on the M, that's when you can have an adult conversation about what you NEED .. vs what you WANT. This comes from a confident man, not the doormat she has been used to, a man she now has come to respect because those boundaries you have currently .. keeping you from texting, from pursuing .. you will start putting a few on her, not being talked to in a rude way, not allowing an open marriage .. not afraid of sticking up for yourself. ^^^ These things can be done confidently without being angry or becoming an A hole about it .. from a a place of strength ... she has to respect you first ... this takes time. You are changing and she does not trust it .. again .. time. She will need to realize the changes you have made have stuck, she thinks she knows you ... because lets be honest .. she does and she could predict your behavior, but now the 180's have her confused.
She is not D'ing you right now, she has doubts .. this is good, but you have to do the work for you .. not to win her back or trick her, she will see through it .. you have to convince yourself first that you are a new person.
I understand the comment about her not loving you could be devastating, try not to think too much about it. IF the love was there at one point it can come back, and its possible shes just saying it for another reason or she cant feel it right now.
As for the guy, that's a tough situation and maybe others can put input in on it. The issue is there's not much you can do about it. Pressing the issue no matter what is happening will only push her away further and likely cause her to want a D because you will be trying to control her(from her point of view).
If you really don't like it and want to put a boundary on it, go ahead. Just understand the consequences from it. Boundaries are about behavior toward you that you will not accept. Example, living in an open M. Basically, you will be telling her you cant be in a M with her while shes in such a close relationship with this guy, regardless of whats happening. Which wont go over well because she doesn't even know if she wants the M right now.
In my opinion, I would say leave her alone and focus on yourself completely until more information has come up. Improve parts of your life that you can and become the best man you can, the man only a fool would leave. Get yourself in a healthy place where you can handle whatever happens next. Then, no matter what shes does you will be ok. Her loss if she chooses to leave.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
You are detaching at least to the not being reactive, and that is a big accomplishment. The weakening of the feelings comes much slower. Just keep at it, and don't beat yourself up that you aren't there yet.
You say your goal is for your wife to ask you to come home. OK, what are your more immediate goals: the baby steps. For instance, mine are things like W starts initiating contact more, shows interest in what I'm up to/how things are going, showing me consideration rather than just focused on herself, wanting to keep talking when we strike up a conversation and laughing.
Notice, I didn't even state slightly more ambitious goals like W asking me to do something together. That is a step along the progression, but my focus has to be on these first very small immediate goals. What are your equivalents?
I'm a fixer, and it has been a struggle. Learning to ask my W's opinion on something rather than offering my ideas is one change I'm trying to make. On things that I took care of, I'm at least taking the stance that she needs to do it. I'll walk her through what I'd do, but she needs to learn to do it herself. Lots of reassurance that "yeah, that happens to me" or "I struggle with that sometimes," and positive affirmation when she accomplishes one of the steps ("good job," "you picked that up quicker than I did," etc.). Make her feel good about her growing, make her feel like you respect her and her abilities, and help her build that sense of self-sufficiency which is part of her craving right now. You not only are not being an obstacle or making her feel like you think you are better than her, but you are part of her building a sense of a powerful, confident self.
It often feels like we should want our S to be dependent on us for certain things, but helping them feel good about themselves and praising them for it as well as being humble reassuring that you struggled too, makes you part of her winning team.
I still slip and go right to fixing, but when I catch myself and go this new direction, my W perks up and really seems appreciative. If nothing else it gives her a better sense of all that you were doing for her. If she doesn't understand it, she can't adequately value your past efforts.
On the friend/OM, probably not worth worrying about it. Trying to catch her up won't work in your favor regardless of what you discover: it is still a form of pursuit and not respecting boundaries. Just try to focus on your life for now. I know how hard it is, but it is for the best.
Keep at it.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
If you really don't like it and want to put a boundary on it, go ahead. Just understand the consequences from it. Boundaries are about behavior toward you that you will not accept. Example, living in an open M. Basically, you will be telling her you cant be in a M with her while shes in such a close relationship with this guy, regardless of whats happening. Which wont go over well because she doesn't even know if she wants the M right now.
In BE's case I don't think this would work, unlike others. Thing is at this point he has no intel, it only appears that it COULD be an OM, and COULD be an A, not certain if its EA or PA as the W seems to have placed friend tag on this dude. BE has to 180 from the controlling person she resents .... placing a 'boundary' that he can not enforce, and at this point lose would be counter productive. I get the whole "I will not live in an open marraige line" and the approach, but my gut tells me in this sitch it would blow up. Especially given BE's history on approaching this.
I truly feel he needs to GAL, 180 and wait for W to take notice, its going to take a bit here.
Originally Posted By: Fogg
In my opinion, I would say leave her alone and focus on yourself completely until more information has come up. Improve parts of your life that you can and become the best man you can, the man only a fool would leave. Get yourself in a healthy place where you can handle whatever happens next. Then, no matter what shes does you will be ok. Her loss if she chooses to leave.
I completely agree Cali, exactly what I was thinking. I wasn't suggesting he do it more as showing him what would happen if he did. Even if nothing is going on it would likely cause her to backoff and want a D. She either sees it as controlling behavior(if its not an EA), making her want the D. OR she sees him threatening her EA, which also leads to the same outcome.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
I agree ... the fact she is still dipping a pinkie toe in, thinking about the kids speaks volumes .... how many other sitches the WAW is hell bent in love and does not care who knows.
Something BE can work on here, he just needs to become the man he was meant to be.
Speaking of which ... I read a bit about Disillusionment ... summary is basically how when we marry we have this image in our head about how our M will be, how our spouse will be ... and after a bit things do not pan out like the image in our head, we are let down and begin to become resentful .... for some this is just normal .. others its something they can not shake.
Food for thought, I seen it first hand in my M, and realized I myself did not get to where I dreamed I would be at this point... not achieving goals I set in my 20's
Man. Really great feedback today guys. Thank you so much.
Each of you touched on her friend. I agree with everyone's assessment. If I set boundaries it will blow up in my face. Not the right tactic for my sitch. Cali wrote this:
"I agree ... the fact she is still dipping a pinkie toe in, thinking about the kids speaks volumes .... how many other sitches the WAW is hell bent in love and does not care who knows."
I agree completely with the above. Now she does speak to him on the phone pretty much everyday. She also spends alot of time with him. Much of it is things with our children. Interrogating her about it has gotten me nowhere. So I have stopped doing that. She has been adamant that he is an amazing friend and nothing more. Even though some of the intel I have seen screams of some kind of A, I have also thought about it from Cali's perspective. Wouldn't she be flaunting it and not care if it were more than a friendship? What if she is telling the truth?
I also think that the fact that she is thinking about it even if just for the kids at this point speaks volumes as well.
I did get some good insight from an interaction with her today concerning my changes in behavior over the last several months. Long story short, I had to get the brakes done on her car today and when I returned I spent a short bit of time with her and the kids. They were going to go to the beach and the kids asked me if I wanted to come. In the past I never wanted to go do this with them. So my W says, no daddy doesn't like the beach. So I say, actually I kind of do. "News to me". She says and kind of storms off.
Now obviously I knew we weren't going to go to the beach today as a family. She isn't ready for that. But before I left I decided to speak to her. She said things like "for years I tried to get you to go to the beach and now you want to?"
I very calmly explained that it isn't about whether or not I like the beach. It is about doing things with those I care for even if it isn't necessarily things I am fondest of.
She then gave me a HUGE insight into what is holding her back. She said "I don't know what this act is you are trying to pull off these last few months but I'm not buying it."
BINGO: Right there was the first time I have seen genuine anger over my changes. This is a sign that they are being noticed but not yet trusted.
I stayed totally calm. I validated her by saying that "I completely understand why you would believe that I am trying to pull off an act. It is hurtful for you to say it but it does not make me angry and I understand it and appreciate your honesty. All I can say is that it is not an act. It is genuine. But I accept that you have to figure that out in your own way and on your own timeline. I care for you and the children very much and if this were an act that would mean I was intentionally trying to deceive you and to hurt you and the children. And that just is not the case."
