Jim0987 #14 - due for another upgrade soon

[jim0987]

Mozza,

Thanks for your input.I think i know what your getting at.

me moving on and being ok suggests to her that i still don't get it and therefore haven't changed in the slightest.

However, im not really sure what that means i should do differently as being positive and trying to move on is the best thing for me and the best thing for my kids.

your thoughts and suggestions would be very much appreciated.

[Vanilla]

Jim

These are very important posts, some of the most important healing posts that you have written.

We all have behaviours in our M that shame us. I recollect opening my heart about screaming banshee, abuse if ever there was. We discussed this many months ago, the shame of the screaming and the fact that I felt that "contempt was not a boundary for me".

Bless you Jim, you challenged that, and changed my view.

Nothing that you have said or done is the cause of WW going wayward on you.

Some of your past behaviour is unacceptable to the Jim as is now, and frankly not good and certainly not affirming of an M. You can not change that Jim, it is done and over.

Jim is a different Jim to that which was. It is hard to let go of that past Jim for you. It seems to me that you could chose to say "that Jim is behind me, and I am renewed."

Jim it is going to be OK, you will be healed and you can forgive yourself.

Peace and big hugs

V

[Sotto]

Jim, I think that so much of that sounds like the build up of trials and tribulations of marriage and some communication that wasn't effective, assumptions being made, unmet expectations, pressures of family and so on. Some 'nice guy' stuff and I'm sure your W bought things to the table too.

For me it all adds up to - it isn't easy to have a good M! - there's a lot to learn and a lot to get wrong and to go wrong. It sounds to me as though there was some justification going on when your W was telling others you were controlling and so on..

My advice would be to learn what you can from it for your next R - whether that be reconciled with your W, or some other lucky woman - and keep moving forward. And remember the mantra - never lose hope. No matter how dark or how bleak things may seem. It is still relatively early days with your sitch and still volatile with OM in the picture. As time goes on, who knows what may happen.

I hope you had a nice 'Jim-centric' weekend xx

[gan]

[quote=jim0987]If my theory is correct, then this is not the ideal reaction because it is your way of holding to your part of the argument with her. She tells you: "Things are bad and awful, you hurt me and you will suffer for what you've done!" and your attitude responds "Nope, things are good!" Every time you say "Bloody rain, right?" she hears "Get over it". It tells her that you don't hear her, that you don't get what she's trying to say, that you're trying to move along.

I think this is some really interesting insight, Mozza. Can you please hook me up with your IC?

So Jim, I think I'm in a somewhat similar boat to what Mozza writes about above. I can see that my H just can't (isn't ready to) enjoy my company, which has made our exchanges post BD really tough. Would you ever consider expressing regret over the past in a letter to your W? You know I pondered whether or not to do this in my sitch frequently...but I never did pull the trigger.

On an unrelated note, you mentioned you're able to run again....which reminds me about your foot. Has it taken all that time to heal???

[Vanilla]

If I recollect you broke your foot about the same time I broke my nail and the end of my big toe.

Ouch.

V

[Mozza]

Mozza,

Thanks for your input.I think i know what your getting at.me moving on and being ok suggests to her that i still don't get it and therefore haven't changed in the slightest. However, im not really sure what that means i should do differently as being positive and trying to move on is the best thing for me and the best thing for my kids.

your thoughts and suggestions would be very much appreciated.

I'm not sure what you should do either. I'm just thinking out loud with you here.

I don't think it's the fact that you're moving on that is potentially problematic with her. The opposite would suggest that you think the offenses were minor and can be forgiven. Moving on, quite the opposite, suggests that you see the extent of the damage and accept your fate.

The problem would be that you act as if you two could have a normal relationship, post-S. It's hard to assess through your posts, but it comes across as if you're trying to be "friendly", which is more than "cordial". You invite her, you chat about the weather, you ask about her day, her problems. This is not the behavior of someone who thinks "I've been awful to you". If you'd kill you neighbor's dog, would you go up to them and offer coffee and be chatty? It would be inappropriate, at least until they reach out to you.

My theory is based on the idea that your wife wants you to recognize the extent of the damage you caused her (in her mind at least) and that we only really speak convincingly through our actions. This is the argument that she wants to win. Once you've made that "emotional payment" to her, she'll relax. It's as in any argument: recognizing where we are wrong is often the first step to a resolution. I know you've done it with your words, but she needs to see it in your actions.

I'm not saying this will lead to R, but the feeling of having won this argument will likely give her a sense of safety around you. It's like people who were cheated on: they need the cheater to show real and extensive remorse. It gives them confidence that they share the pain they have caused and hence are less likely to do it again.

Again, this is just some water-cooler discussion and pop psychology, but I thought maybe it could help you understand your WW's behavior towards you and adjust accordingly.

[Vanilla]

Mza,

I think I read you.

My take is a little modification, we can be sorry or atoning for the affect something has, without completely accepting responsibility for another's behaviour and role.

I am sorry that you drove your car into the gate trying to avoid the bike I left lying on the path. Let me help repair the damage with you. Yes I can see you are upset.

Validation.

V

[Bob723]

Hi Jim,

I just wanted to stop by and inform you that you are in my thoughts and prayers. I have caught up, for the most part, on your situation. I agree 100% with Vanilla: "Nothing that you have said or done is the cause of WW going wayward on you."

Peace to you, my friend, and may each day be better than the previous. Hang in there. You CAN do this.

Your friend,

Bob

[Sotto]

Hi lovely Jim. Yes, I can see Mozza's take on this and agree there are risks with being over-friendly with your W. Particularly if she is giving vibes of non-receptivity.

IMHO, the best thing to aim for just now is effective co-parenting relationship - which is cordial, constructive, helpful and so on - but doesn't extend as far as 'friends.'

IDK - as others say, your W behaves as the 'wounded party' but actually she had her own part in this and betraying your vows with a third party is devastatingly hurtful. So I also don't think she is taking responsibility for this.

I think you are doing well Jim, although it may be time to revisit your GAL and see if you want to top up at all. But you are moving forward, you have sorted financials, you're doing well at work, being a good Dad, and interacting reasonably with your W. For all of that I applaud you.

Hang on in there my friend xx

[jim0987]

Hi All, Thanks as always for chipping in.

So first up foot update . I broke my foot on christmas eve, entirely self inflicted, and was out for a couple of months. Then just before Easter i fell awkwardly playing squash and after a bit of investigation by the physio and some trial an error she came to the conclusion that i had prolapsed a disc and that was causing nerve issues. That has been healing well but the running seems to have aggravated things a little so I need to take it a bit easier. I also think I need to buy a bike and try lower impact for a while.

Next general update

After my flat weekend the week has stayed relatively flat as well, I really don't have enough lined up for the times I don't have the kids. Having said that time with the kids is good and I'm taking them to a little local music festival at the weekend.

On the whole i'm feeling like I'm lacking purpose and motivation to do anything other than keep trudging along and with that its difficult to feel much joy. I've talked about this with my IC and we are trying to figure out why this is and what i can do about it although she has suggested I try dating.

Its difficult to know what to say really, with work and the kids i don't get a huge amount of time but what i do get i struggle to fill. It seems like everything that happens locally happens on days I have the kids.

Just as an aside, a few posts ago i said i ran into my XF from many years ago and apologised for all the upset and hurt I caused when I left. Well it seems she then sent a message to both my brother and my dad to say she was really grateful for that and its given her some closure.

lastly responding to mozza and thanks again for your thoughts on this.

I'm not sure how it comes across here so i'll try and clarify. I'm friendly but its at the cordial end, I will say general things like 'have a nice weekend' but i don't ask how she is (except when she was hospitalized) or what shes been doing (since the answer is OM1, I dont need to hear that). I'm chatty and polite but always about the kids although i will extend what i think is normal courtesy to her, so for example saying she doesn't need to wait on the doorstep. I didn't invite her in for a coffee or anything like that though.

I did send her a basic Happy Birthday message yesterday and had sorted out cards and presents from the kids, nothing elaborate though.

I could rein back a little on the chattiness and if i mirrored her then there would be no superfluous words like 'hi' but I don't want to behave like that, its not me and I don't think its a good example for the kids.

I've apologised in words, I've made this whole thing as easy as possible on her and i have quietly gone away as far as two people who share kids can do. Except for saying something to fully absolve her i'm not sure what else there is i can do.

It feels like my XW feels she is absolutely the victim and she has done nothing wrong at any stage. The only things she has admitted to as her mistakes/part in the failure of our M are 'getting married when she wasn't sure' 'settling for what she knew wasn't good enough' and 'not leaving sooner'

I have to say I cant recall my XW ever forgiving anyone for anything (other than XSIL for pretty much anything).

as for adjusting accordingly, well i'm not really sure what that looks like.

oh well, it is what it is and I just need to find a way to fully move on.