Lost & confused

[Sotto]

It's hard to understand the logic of a WAS - it's a mess inside their heads okay? A book just popped into my head as I was reading your posts. It helped me a lot when I was at your stage in the game. It's by Andrew G Marshall and it's the one about my H not loving me and texting someone else. It complements MWD's excellent books very well and helped me understand the WAH mentality. It may be available as an E book.

What I would say is that your H is saying one thing and doing another. My H did the same, and I think you should prepare yourself that this may happen for a little while yet. And the important thing is to take care of yourself and have clear boundaries.

I need to go now - all day workshop. But do take care - I hope someone else chimes in for you and I'll post again later.

(((((((Tweets))))))))

[asitis]

Very sorry H is putting you through this.

Sometimes - and I think this is one of those cases - we have to cycle back to basics. If he has a plan B, is outward focus, etc., no sense working on the M. Tell him that when he says he still wants to save M. The only way to save M is him cutting all contact w/ OW and investing himself fully in saving the M. Period. End of story. Non-negotiable. If he questions it, just hit him with the gospel that any decent MC will tell him that it just doesn't work while there are three people involved, and you aren't going to waste your time and his while he is going on w/ OW.

Reassert your protective boundaries. No cake eating by him. Refocus on yourself and your life. All those sorts of things you were hoping to not have to ever do again.

On the saying he loves her after only a few weeks: this is typical running away from painful feelings rather than facing them. He doesn't love her. She just gives him that short-term fix that allows him to soothe that pain that is deep in his soul.

Finally, don't expect a lot of rational thought or responses from H at this moment. He is not in that place. Nothing he says can be taken at face value and he will likely be all over the place. He has no idea what he really feels or wants, just like he can't possibly know that he loves this W. Don't waste your energy trying to puzzle this all out and make sense of it, it will only add a headache to the rest of the suffering and pain.

Good luck & sorry again.

[Clairee]

Thanks you guys. H tells me today he absolutely wants to make the M work. He terminated the email address this morning. Last night he called OW with me on speaker, she didn't answer. H left a message that he was focusing on his M & family, that what they did was wrong & to not make contact with him. He deleted the numbers out of his phone, deleted her email address & removed her from FB. I don't know if that really means anything at this point. H said he wanted us to go to MC. He makes all these grand statements but then does this. Is this MLC? Addition to attention? Needs affirmation from younger women? What the ?!$& This is not the man I married. And none of this happened until he was 2600 miles from home, alone with no one around & nothing to do. I fully admit things weren't great. But what gives?

Today we took the kids to the beach. We had promised them that as soon as Dad got home we'd spend the entire day. H was all lovey. Wanting to put his arms around me & kiss me while we were floating in the water. Held my hand on the drive to & from the beach, said I love you all the time. I didn't reject it in front of the kids. They don't know anything. I've done my best to shield them from everything. My Ds are far too sensitive & it would shake their world. They get upset if they think we're arguing about anything.

When we got home, he went to the store for me. While I was cooking dinner, he told me how great of a day it was & how if we could make everyday like this we'd be the best there ever was. Said that I have made him feel unappreciated & that he didn't matter to me. Said if I could change how I treated him over the years, no one else would ever measure up to me. We had that discussion not even 2 months ago & I validated his feelings at the time. Apologized for letting him think I didn't love or appreciate him. We both agreed over the phone & through text would make it almost impossible for me to show him any change. But through phone & text, I did what I could. We both took the 5 love languages quiz & I found I had been showing him the way I wanted to be shown but not the way he did. Since then, I've emailed him every night before I went to bed so he woke up to it. I've stopped what I was doing when he wanted to talk. I've listened, active listening, to what he had to say. I've validated when I could. Made reassurances when he needed them. Not sure what else I could do from so far away.

After his talk today, I just asked if he was 100% in this? If he was then it has to be only us, me & him. No 3rd person. That he can't give our M it's fair try if he's putting time & energy into someone else. That it will never work if he's dividing his thoughts & energy. He agreed.

But like the vets on here say, believe none of what they say & only half of what they do.

Ugh! Just ugh!

[Sotto]

Hi Tweets, I'm pleased that your H wants to try and work things out. I would just stay mindful that he did something similar last time. He seemed genuinely remorseful, but then went back to the previous behaviour.

I see some of that in his behaviour yesterday, being super affectionate with you. Like he just wants all the other stuff to be 'gone' - but then he still needs it and drifts back into it. I feel he isn't actually doing the work, you know?

One thing AGM talks about is people pleasing. H's who are caught cheating say 'I'll do anything to make this work' with you.' But then OW that they've been in touch with wants to keep in touch - and they don't want to be hurtful. Then they think - what harm can an email do? And off you go again....

I think you are doing well with the boundaries. I agree that this is time for you to think - what do I need in order to focus my efforts on the M? Full transparency? What does that look like? What do I need from H to start rebuilding trust? and so on. I wouldn't make it too easy with him. One of the mistakes I made with my H was not recognise the seriousness of him emailing OW to say he couldn't stop thinking about her. He broke things off when I found out. But she was upset, and they became involved again you know? It doesn't mean all is lost, but just to recognise that once there is waywardness, H may be drawn away from the M again.

My H described it as Pandora's box. It had been opened and he realised there were women out there who were interested in him.....once he had that realisation, it drew him away from the M. And I think there needs to be a 'shaken to the core' moment that he may lose the M in order for him to turn back.

Sorry - that may not be a very optimistic post, and I am keen to help. Maybe your experience might be different to mine....I hope so!!

Take care, Toots xx

[Clairee]

Well not too much to report. H has been affectionate & attentive all week. He went online & found a MC for us he thought would be a good fit. The MC follows the Gottman Method. I had to google that since I had never heard of it. I spoke to the MC directly yesterday before deciding if I thought he would be a good fit. He's pro-marriage & unless there is abuse doesn't think divorce is the answer for any couple. That was encouraging & also what H said of why he chose him. Just waiting to see if he's covered by our insurance. Should know that today. If not, I found another MC who uses the same method & is covered for sure. I think H is wanting a male MC. He is afraid a woman would beat up on him for what he's done. If a man makes him more apt to going & listening them I'm ok with that. Part of me thinks a man can put things into 'guy' words he can better understand.

I have a head cold. It [censored] so much! Yesterday I could barely function my head & body hurt so much. H was really wonderful. He came home from work, took care of the house things I didn't get done, handled all the teenage girl drama from our Ds & kept them all quiet so I could rest. He brought me tea & soup. Even cleaned up the mess which is a new development! He sat next to me watching TV just letting me rest. I told him he didn't have to stay in the bedroom while I slept but he said he wanted to be close by if I needed something. It was actually really sweet & he's never done it before. When I've been sick in the past, I still did the housework, cooked & whatever while he sat in the recliner & watched TV. I think he's trying, but I'm not reading too much into it at this point.

As for the OW, I asked a few questions. Not much because frankly, I don't care about her that much. But I wanted/needed to know how these I love you's came about. H said about a week before he came home she said it to him in an email. He responded back to it. He said he doesn't know what she meant by 'wait for him' because he had never talked about D or even S with her. I asked if he had talked about me & how. He said he never told her anything bad about me or about us & he showed me an email he sent that said things were rough between us because of being apart & things he had done to mess up while he was gone & he had every intention of making our M work when he got home. Maybe she's reading more into his words than are really there. Who knows. It's mind reading & if she thought more, that's her issue not mine as long as she stays away from me & my family.

Which that brings up a dilemma for me. It's very possible I'll see her when I visit him in California when he goes back at the end of the year. Here's the catch with her, I know her. She knows me. Not well, but we do know each other. It's very likely we could end up in the same room together. And being totally honest, I keep having dreams about that. I'm not a violent person. I never have been. Unless you're trying to hurt my kids, I'm the one everyone calls diplomatic & peace maker. But in my dreams, she's there & without a word I walk over & just beat the crap out of her. I don't know why I'm having these dreams.

Anyway, still not feeling back to normal so just taking it easy today. I have my IC in an few hours & dinner later tonight with a friend of ours who is here on vacation. Tomorrow starts the holiday weekend so we have a lot of family plans. I'm just trying to stay in the moment, not in the past or future. I figure all I have is the current day, nothing else is promised.

[Sotto]

Hi Tweets, good that your H has taken the initiative and arranged the MC. Gottman is good - often mentioned on this forum I notice. Good idea not to care about the OW. I spent far too much time in my sitch worrying about her before I realised she is truly not worth giving mind space to.

Hope your cold is better soon...take care xx

[Clairee]

Thanks Toots.

I had my IC yesterday. It went good. I told her about the MC H had found & she knew him. She said he was good, very good & exactly who she would've recommended for us. That made me feel positive going into this. Still fighting this allergy/head cold. Ugh! Back to some hot tea & my blankets. Have a great weekend!!

[Clairee]

Today has been a hell of a day. H & I fought tonight. He has refused to say much of anything about OW2 or what happened. They emailed. I don't need to see it, telling me details doesn't do us any good. For whatever reason, tonight I couldn't accept those answers anymore. He finally got mad enough at me to answer questions. OW2 emailed him & started it. I asked why he participated. H said it was fun. H said he didn't believe I would change at all so he doesn't feel bad at all for what he did with her. H tells me he isn't afraid of divorce anymore & knows he'd be fine without me. It would be hard but that he deserves better & deserves to be happy. I asked when he started thinking this way or who had influenced this change. H says his new friend at work is going through a divorce & H saw how he was fine & surviving it. I didn't say anything. H says OW2 listened to him, showed genuine interest, made him feel good & was so supportive. OW2 told him she loved him & H said he loved her. H said he meant it that because she did all those things he really felt love. H said OW2 'told him' he needed to work on his marriage but if it didn't work, she'd be waiting for him when he got back to California. H said there were no plans but hypotheticals about their future. H tells me he still wants to be married to me, wants the marriage to work & is committed to doing his part of the work it will take. H says he's sorry he hurt me but he's not sorry for what he did. Listening to him tonight hurt so much. I hear over & over in my head him saying he loved her. He didn't use the word loves, he stayed in past tense. He has cut off communication. But as I sit here tonight, I replay his message to her & wonder if they had talked about this happening. When he left the message, he said 'my wife is with me & you're on speaker'. I didn't think much of it at the time, but now I am eaten up with thoughts that they talked about this. That if I found out, he'd have to call & tell her that. I am even more lost & confused than when I first came to these forums. I love my H. I want our marriage to work, to be healthy & happy. But I question whether that's realistic, will I ever trust him again, is he worth another chance & do I really want to be married to him anymore. I hate having all these questions & uncertainties. I hate feeling like this. Yes, he cut off communication, he deleted the email account, did all those things, but is he being sincere? Is he really committed? Is this all part of some plan they cooked up? Am I just being a fool or being played the fool? I hate all of this!

[mvgfwd2]

divorced friends or ones having A's are the worst people to be around for married people. They frequently work their friends to do the same. Showing only the good, happy side. I required my W to end all relations with friends and family who were like this. They were voices in her head that said A's are fine, she deserves better, you only live once, etc. She is happier now without all their BS and negativity clouding her thoughts.

[Clairee]

Fortunately I guess, this friend is already on the way out of the picture. H isn't in the same state as this guy anymore & they don't text or talk on the phone. But the damage he could do has already been done. I just hope it's not lasting thoughts. H this morning told me he doesn't feel the same way about OW2 as he did when they were talking. I asked how he would handle it if she called & he said he'd tell her they have nothing to talk about & let her know he said not to contact him anymore. I guess that is evidence of how much he really felt about it/her. H made an off the wall comment that what he did showed him I was paying attention. I didn't ask what he meant, I just let him talk. I kept thinking, was it all really to make sure I was paying attention? Some kind of test?