It's Been Two Months Today

[DifRent]

New thread, Cadet - and I think I did it right this time! Link me up... thanks!


I am one of those people who is keenly aware of dates and anniversaries. And so I am keenly aware that I've been dealing with the BD for exactly two months now.

It's been the worst nightmare of my life, but I'm just preaching to the choir here when I say that.

I got back to my house this morning a little before noon, and I saw a FedEx delivery notice from yesterday on the door. I suspect that my W, thinking I wasn't going to come home last night, spent the whole night at the OW's for the first time. Interesting... is she only coming home each night at some crazy hour because I'm there?

I ran into my W twice at the house today. The first time, she was cold and perfunctory toward me.

"We need to talk about things and be practical. I have a very busy weekend with lots of plans."

"I'm sure you do," I said. "I really can't believe you read my Skype messages. Why?"

"You know, you need to stop telling people I'm crazy and wacko. I'm not. I've just moved on. You need to deal with it. And some of the things you said hurt me."

"Those things weren't meant for your eyes. If they hurt you, so be it. I'm certain there are hundreds of things you've told OW that, were I to have heard or read them, would hurt me, too."

"True."

"I don't tell people you're crazy," I said. "I just tell them what you're doing, and they draw their own conclusions. If in my messages you saw me mention that you're crazy, it's only to people who already know what you're doing and don't need to be informed."

"Okay, fine." She went back upstairs.

I asked her on my way back out if she hates me... I don't know why. She said no, but it wasn't very convincing. Really, had never seen her so detached and cold toward me.

Went to meet with my Stephen Minister, then came back to get a few things before going to pick up my son for work. She called from upstairs... then came downstairs when I answered.

"I just wanted to wish you a happy Fourth of July," she said.

I said, "Umm, okay. It's the second of July."

"I know, but I have a full weekend."

"Don't we have dinner plans with the boys tomorrow?"

"Oh yes, that's right. Of course."

After a pause.

"I don't hate you. I will go to Trader Joe's today before my 6pm showing, do you need anything besides greens for smoothies and wine?"

"No, that's good, thanks."

"And then I have dinner plans." Not sure why she felt compelled to tell me that, but she followed it with a brief touch on my arm as she said, "Have a good rest of the day, okay?"

Her mind is made up, she is resolute that we are done. But then exchanges like this betray... something. Not sure what. Her face is set firmly, but her eyes can't settle down.

I left to head to the kids' apartment and decided we will stay at my friend's house one more night... they like to stay for the internet, I like to stay because if they are here, I get to be with them, and not be so lonely.

But during my session with my Stephen Minister today, she counseled me to make friends with my loneliness. I guess that will come in time. For now, the loneliness is not my friend. I'd do anything to replace it with the W I used to know.

[gonegrl]

I know dates are hard. I don't have any advice as I am in the same boat, but I had to wait 3 months for an "I don't hate you" so you are ahead of me. I feel less lonely since I found this forum. I hope you find some peace this weekend.

[NDY]

Hi D

Here is where my thought process has been going.

We head off on a destination with our partners. Then, while we are heading straight on a path suddenly BAM. New direction.

What was once peace suddenly we are at defcon 1. Full out war.

We can be the diplomats or the major in charge of the big push. Either way our ally is now our foe.

So, diplomat or major? We already know the answer. You've read the books. Be the diplomat.

[PigPen]

I'm sorry Dif, I just want to give you a big hug.

Her eyes betray her heart, which is heavily clouded over at the moment.

Trust her eyes, and yourself.

I have been advised to become friends with the loneliness as well. To swim in the depression as opposed to drowning in it. And to ask everyday what the pain is trying to teach me. Some days I have answers, some days I don't.

More big hugs to you,

PP

[DifRent]

I like that metaphor, NDY... the diplomat. I just need to remember to BE the diplomat. Thanks.

[DifRent]

I feel less lonely here too, Photoka. Glad you're here, but sorry you have to be.

[DifRent]

Thank you for the hug, PP. Wish there was a way we could all connect in person and give those hugs for real. Love the support in this forum.

[Matt777]

Sending you my best internet hug I can.

I like reading your thoughts, but it feels like every time I see some update, it's something negative! Hoping you can find some peace in whatever form it may appear. stay strong, Dif. As hard as it is sometimes, stay strong.

[DifRent]

The lunch with my W, mom, and the mortgage lender has been rescheduled for this upcoming Tuesday. However, since my W read my Skype messages, she knows we sort of "planned" it. Or actually... she confirmed that we planned it, because the OW, as anyone who is following my sitch might remember, already created a "them v. you" scenario wherein the three of us would "gang up" on her during this lunch and... I don't know. Make her feel bad? Judge her? Do something "religious?"

In the midst of her angry text messages yesterday, she said, "So what's the deal with this lunch anyway? I'm thinking it's some kind of intervention, and if so, you are mistaken to think I will fall prey to that."

An intervention? Oh boy. All we are going to do is eat Mexican food and drink margaritas. Maybe talk about baptism (since my mom is my W's godmother and the mortgage lender was baptized as an adult, just like my W three months ago). Maybe let the Holy Spirit touch her heart, if He chooses. But nothing like what she's thinking. This was planned back before anyone knew anything about her MLC or affair. But she is on her guard, so I'm not sure what might come of this lunch.

And I'm not supposed to know what might come of this lunch, or anything else for that matter, right?

Again. THANKS OW, for planting rotten seeds in her head. Thankfully they have a full weekend of fantasy affair partner fun scheduled.

I can hardly wait till real life begins to make an appearance in their relationship... and hopefully, by then, I'll be so busy with my own life that I won't be paying attention.

[DifRent]

Yeah Matt, you're right. It's all been negative since the kids moved out. Been so depressed, and I'm having a hard time facing the next month or two...

But here's some peace tonight: my younger son and I are together on the couch at my friend's house, watching old Seinfeld episodes on TV and just messing around on our laptops. He's such a good kid, at 18 never fails to show how much he loves me. I love him so much, and I'm living in this moment, enjoying his company before we both go back to our respective homes tomorrow.

And you know... your girls are going to love their dad just the same when they get older, because you are loving them so well right now.

Internet hugs back to you, my friend.

[Fogg]

I can't remember but have you acted "as if" with this whole thing with her? Telling her you don't agree with D but you respect her decision to leave and will not stand in her way any longer.

Her and OW are being battle buds righr now and as long as you are the common enemy W won't be able to see OW'S faults.

It [censored] to basically act as I'd your moving on with your life with or without them and appear happy,but that's where I've been a while now and we no longer have negative interactions.

You have seen actions that suggest she cares for you still, basically it's time to step out if the way completely and let OW mess this up. Reacting to her will likely be the hardest thing to stop.

[DifRent]

Yeah Fogg... with the exception of some unfortunate arguments, I'm generally acting "as if," but now that she knows I'm praying for her and have a bunch of other people doing the same, she suspects ulterior motives. This is also giving ammunition to her and the OW, as if I'm the crazy one, not them. My prayers are actually nonspecific, but they don't know that and suspect otherwise.

You're right... it's SO hard to act like I'm moving on and it's no big deal. In a way, that feels like I'm agreeing with what she's doing, and acknowledging that the worst thing to ever happen in my life is actually "no big deal."

I want to show her so clearly how wrong this is, and argue tooth and nail.

But we all know the counter-intuitive actions are the ones that work. Act as if, eliminate negativity, make sure every encounter with her feels positive, and let her do her thing.

Or better yet, let OW do HER thing. And self-destruct.

[PigPen]

So true Dif. Show her exactly what OW can't - that even in the face of terrible adversity, you can hold strong. You're the rock. At some point the fact that you were praying for her will break through - "wait a minute, I left her, cheated and she still prayed for me."

OW can't compete with that. You're going to give OW impossible shoes to fill and once she knows that she'll implode.

[DifRent]

Thanks, PP. The main thing is, even if W and OW never know that's what I'm doing, that's what I'm going to do. In the end, I just want what's best for my W... God's best. (And, grudgingly, for OW too. That one is REALLY tough...)

[asitis]

On the reading skype messages: remember, that things come back to W. Really try not to cast blame and make them out to be the problem (or even struggling with their own issues). I've done that, and it only makes them see you as not getting it and the problem. So, make very sure that you only vent to those you can absolutely trust and via a media that she can't ever see.

It may actually be a good sign that she is snooping though.

Don't bring up OW, even indirectly. Just don't.

Finally, you are getting mixed messages. I'm sure she isn't done, but you need to focus on the I need space, don't pursue me, respect my wishes messages, and not the I still care, I don't feel bad and don't want to hurt you, etc. messages. The woman wants space. You need space to detach. Go with those. Don't be unfriendly, but no expectations, detachment, no R or OW talk, and GAL along with friendly interest, listening, and validation are your path forward through this painful haze.

[Vanilla]

Congrats on your new job dif! Say the post on Heavy D thread.

V

[DifRent]

Read a great article this morning on "authentic love vs. affair love." I'd like to highlight some of the more affirming points for me. Thought it might be a good read for others dealing with unfaithful/departing spouses.

“Love” within the context of infidelity is an encounter between a person – the object of desire – and an experience – the passion of eros. It can leave one intoxicated with emotion that drives both decisions and behaviors in often inalterable ways. The result of this fusion is one of the most destructive mistakes a human can make. The fundamental error we make is that we confuse a romantic/friendship/erotic experience with a person who just happens to be a part of the encounter. You believe you MUST have that person in order to have that experience. Again, we are confusing how we feel about the person with exactly how they are making us feel about ourselves in the experience.

...You confuse a person for an experience and attempt valiantly to translate that experience into something real. It isn’t real. But so much depends upon our belief that the affair is “real”. The possibility of “true love”, the confirmation that “soul mates” exist, the justification for destroying families, leaving spouses, children, jobs and friends – all MUST be justified with legitimacy and purpose. Otherwise, those of us in affairs are nothing but hedonistic idiots. So we have a huge capacity to convince ourselves that it was real. If we didn’t, how could we live with ourselves?

The stage is set for grandiosity and narcissistic self-indulgence. On this platform, all manner of illogical and nonsensical choices are made. We are in pursuit of a valid human need – deep intimacy and belonging. Yet, we are moving toward our fated demise. Authentic love, based on friendship, history and seasoned emotionality, can never result from affair love, which is grounded in escape, deception and illicit illusions. Anything based upon deception is destined to fail. Period. Without integrity, life simply doesn’t work.

Affair love is rooted in the attempt to legitimize an illusion. In fact, that’s the source of its power since so much is at stake.

A real relationship cannot compete with an affair. The novelty, forbidden, and surrealistic nature of an affair relationship beats a real relationship any day with its sobering demands. Within its pursuit lies everything it means to be human.

Here’s the straight truth: an affair exploits the normal and natural right to human intimacy by selling a cheap version of temporary escape. It is a shallow relief that barely scratches the surface of authentic love, a commitment to a life partner who knows and loves you despite disappointments. Real relationships have a way of rubbing our noses in the slime of life. It is within the alchemy of that authenticity that true love can be encountered.

Affair love is an illusion, based on a lie, fueled by fantasy, protected by self-justification, insecurity and ego. It NEVER delivers on any expectations. Is it any wonder why real relationships, based on an affair, fail at a rate twice that of divorce?

Authentic love embraces contradiction that affair love cannot. The “contradiction” I speak of here is you. You are a contradiction. As a human being in a relationship, you are going to be inconsistent, hypocritical, have bad days and good, be at your best and often at your worst, and have phases of life where there may be little lovable about you. Authentic love, which I was surprised by, is a quality and intensity of love sustainable and real because it is NOT contingent upon the emotions or circumstances to be just right.

Contrast that with Affair love, where you are on a perpetual honeymoon and the emotional tone is always courtship behavior. You are insulated from reality because an affair never touches the light of day since it requires deception to sustain it. You always look good, sound good, smell good and think you’re good – just like reality… right? It’s a house of cards waiting to implode.

The result is a perfect storm of illusion and flight. The primary relationship doesn’t have a chance to survive because it cannot compete with a fantasy untested by the sobriety of reality. Your affair relationship thrives on the fantasy-based love of exhilaration and novelty.

Soul mates are created, NOT found. True love exists but not for the faint of heart or narcissistically challenged. Success has requirements. So does real love. It requires you to know yourself intimately, all of you – how you’ve been wounded by life and how to evolve as a person capable of loving another. It requires you to be transparent, authentically asking for what you want and being willing to enthusiastically give back. It requires you to grow up. Groveling when things go wrong is out. Keeping your integrity and standing firm on your commitment is in. It requires you to stand for what you know is possible, despite terrible circumstances, and demonstrate the courage of a warrior, even when you don’t feel like it, even when you’ve lost that loving feeling, even when you aren’t getting your needs met on a regular basis.

[Wet]

Hi DifRent, thank you for sharing the portions of the article on "authentic love vs. affair love." It was helpful.

[u-turn]

Thanks for posting that DifRent.
It makes so much sense, doesn't it? But they just don't get it.

Keep it up - you are stronger that you know.

[WhyUs]

Very insightful. Too bad my wife is not a a place where she can objectivly read and comprehend this.

[Fogg]

Dif, thanks for sharing. I've read this article in the past but I needed to read it again. Important things to understand with that article even if we hear bits of it all the time. I'll have to regularly reread this when the process starts to get me down,just like the lighthouse story.

[PigPen]

Thanks for the article highlight Dif, lots of gems in there about the real work of true love. I agree that soul mates aren't found, or maybe they are but they bring with them the opportunity for even more work than we bargain for.

[DifRent]

Four years ago today, my W and I were in Thessaloniki, the last day of three spent in Greece. As the evening turned to night, we were enjoying ourselves with her cousin and a bunch of friends in an outdoor bar on the banks of the Aegean sea. The financial crisis (which just keeps getting worse) was all around us, but that doesn't stop the Greeks from enjoying their libations!

As we traveled on that trip to nine countries, I wanted to be sure to have the authentic food and drink experiences of each place we visited. So while in Greece, I had a little ouzo at every meal. Mind you, there are two kinds of ouzo in Greece - the "female" ouzo, which has an anise flavor and is fairly mild - and the "male" ouzo... which is, well, a bit stronger.

I'd been handling the "female" ouzo with no problem the whole trip, but this night when I ordered it, they brought out the high test stuff. Even with it being a bit stronger, it goes down easy.

Way too easy.

Enjoying our political and intellectual conversations around the table, I ordered a second.

My W's cousin, who lives in Greece, said to my W... "umm, Dif probably shouldn't have that second ouzo." My W didn't think anything of it, and didn't try to stop me.

Well, she should have. There comes a time where my memory completely fails me, because I passed out on the sidewalk as soon as we left the restaurant. My W tells the story of what happened next in such a way that has everyone who hears it rolling on the floor in laughter. But in all seriousness, that woman literally carried me through the streets of Thessaloniki that night, got me to vomit so I would come out of my stupor, and tucked me safely into bed.

I woke at 5am and had it slowly dawn on me that I couldn't remember the night before. I looked over at my W and asked what happened, and she told me how scared she was, and how happy she was that I was okay. We had a five hour drive back to Pristina. She covered me with a blanket in the car and kept checking to make sure I was okay. Back at her apartment, she took the day off from work and just took care of me the whole time.

"I don't know what I'd do if anything ever happened to you, babe. I love you so much."

Her love was self-sacrificial - I mean, I guess any partner would do what she did, but maybe not with such love and forgiveness. I posted a funny comment about it on Facebook this morning, since many of my friends love the story. I hope she sees it and is reminded we have a history, and within that history, she loved me - and as opposed to affair love, REALLY loved me - very much.

[Wonka]

Diff,

Hold on to that memory...that is love that W showed during the Greece trip. It is a validation what you had together is authentic love.

Thanks for posting the Cliff notes of the article.

Cadet, would you please cut and paste that article to create a link for your welcome post to newbies. We all could use that as an affirmation that A's are not real and doomed from the get go. Thanks!

[Fogg]

Dif, awesome story. I wouldn't mind having some of that ouzo right now.

I agree with Wonka, hold onto that memory as authentic love. What shes having with OW right now is just a symptom of her own problems. It will never compare to real authentic love in the long run.

[DifRent]

Wonka and Fogg, yes... I'm holding onto the authentic love. I still have it for her. And no matter what happens, I suspect I always will. Authentic love might change, but it doesn't die.

And Fogg, you can have the ouzo. I'm never touching the stuff again!

[HeavyD]

Wow - what a great article. I get it too - affairs are kids stuff - things that sullen teenagers do. It's so freaking sad.

I too had a similar story of w on our last trip to Hawaii. She got overheated on the beach and just barely could make it to the car a long way back from the beach. She threw up all over herself. I had to lug all of our stuff back to the car, get the kids in the car, crank up the a/c, drive us back to out room, helped her into bed, washed her down with a washcloth and washed off her face and hair. She kept saying thank you - I don't know what I would do without you. I got her ginger ale to drink and pointed the fans on her.

I just said hey, it's ok - it's why I'm here , go to sleep and you will feel better. Once she woke up of course she felt better.

I didn't give that a second thought. That's what love is. She had done that for me a hundred times before as well. That's what real love is. Love is giving and expecting nothing in return. Enduring love. Real love.

Such a good article- thanks for posting. It really resonated with me.

Have a good fourth Diff

[DifRent]

Yeah, it is a great article guys, no?

I've already referred to it a few times today myself. I spent the night at my friend's last night, and it's clear my W did not spend the night here last night, either. I know the OW has the day off, and it's a rainy day that they are likely spending together at her house, doing the things that, well, new lovers do. As I recall from the email exchange earlier this week about my W's irritation at "having" to go to a dinner hosted by the boys tonight, she was lamenting that she couldn't spend the whole day with her.

Of course, that's her fantasy life - all the great sex and just soaking up each other's company. This lasts how long again? A few months? Because if she'd spent this rainy day here with me, she'd be on the computer working the whole time. So would I. Had it been just a few months ago, we'd be moving toward our Friday night routine... getting close to the time when I'd open a bottle of wine and she'd start making pizza, and we'd enjoy a family (or a just the two of us) dinner on the porch enjoying the rain before coming inside to settle on the couch and watch something on TV.

The affair scenario sounds exciting, but it doesn't last. The routine has been ours for years, and I wonder when the first Friday comes that she'll miss it. I'm hoping maybe, even just a little bit, she'll miss it today.

Heading off for that dinner in just a few... although we've agreed to meet at a local pub instead of going to the boys' house. I am really hoping I say and do the right things, and leave her with just enough of a nostalgic twinge that it disrupts the rest of the night with the OW. This means: no fighting!!! I just have to be charming and self-assured.

I can do this...

[DifRent]

And... I did it.

Had a pleasant dinner, she hardly even looked at her cell phone. Hardly. I let my leg brush up against hers several times and got no resistance. She mentioned something about the grocery shopping she did the yesterday, and I went ahead and caressed her bare leg (she was wearing sorts) as I looked her square in the eye and thanked her. No resistance at all.

She told me all about her business, then told a story about one seller who noticed she didn't have a wedding ring on her finger and wanted to know if she was "available." She said no, and I was a bit irritated by the obvious reference to her "ring-less" finger. But my older son later said he wanted to ask, "Yeah, where is your wedding ring, anyway?" Funny guy...

So at the end of the dinner, I went with her to her car because she had the mailbox key in it, and we needed it. She looked up at me and asked if I needed anything. I never know how to answer that, so thankfully she got a phone call while sitting there and it began to rain, so I sat in the passenger's seat. When she got off, she mentioned a few things about finances and gave me a not unkind look, saying, "Babe, we just can't stay in this house anymore."

I smiled back (knowing that we could, if we wanted to), and said, "I wish that when I start this job next week, I could just dump my paychecks right into our account and pay for the lions' share of everything. After all, that was my plan."

She looked into the distance for a minute and said, "I know, I'm sorry."

"In fact," I said as I got out of the car, "I had the whole plan worked out. It could have been so simple."

She smirked a bit and said, "Really???"

I smiled back, winked at her, and said, "Yep, really. Have a good night." And closed the door.

And... that was it.

The boys just came back from the store with some gelato and are going to crash here on the sofas tonight... I can't say I'm disappointed! I doubt WW will come home at all, but it doesn't matter. In a few, I'm off to meet with the neighbor who is looking for a roommate, as this might be the best interim living option for me right now.

Hoping some seeds were planted tonight... even if that's not supposed to be my concern.

[DifRent]

After I got home tonight, I texted my W to see if she would be coming home at all this weekend... so I know whether or not I should bolt the front door. She responded... hours later... to tell me she is going "out of town" and won't be sleeping here till Monday.

She's not going "out of town." She's sleeping at the OW's house. Which she's done several nights this week anyway, and which I have wondered why she hasn't done more often.

Irritates me on the one hand, but I'm glad on the other. Spend all that time together, please! Crash and burn...

I texted back, admittedly with a bit of snarkiness, "Enjoy your time out of town (or rather, at least, out of the bounds of Raleigh city taxation).

(I know the OW's house is in this district, since they just sold it, and my W can't stop telling me these sorts of things.)

Eh... I am such a great example of someone who isn't perfect, and especially who isn't perfect when it comes to DB.

But all in all, I got the sense something was a bit off with her today. In a good way, for me...

Patience...

[DifRent]

Ugh... the housing situation I was hoping would work out fell through today. This makes me feel so much more uneasy than I already felt.

Trying to trust in God, but it's lonely here today, I have no plans till this evening, and even those plans aren't very exciting.

Fighting depression today big time for sure...

[Matt777]

Is there a movie you can see? A new restaurant you can go to? A home repair project you can start?

Thinking of you.

[DifRent]

Thanks Matt. After I get my younger son from work, going to head with him to my mom's for the night. The hours that have stretched out all day today have been tough, though. Absolutely no motivation or desire to do anything. I've never felt this low before. It's pretty unsettling. But tomorrow is a full day, at least, and I'll make it through.

[HeavyD]

Thinking about you Diff. It will get better. I promise. Just keep doing what is best for you. Ignore your w - she's already gone.

It is imperative that you start GALing... Went to a parade today and just being around complete strangers was soothing. Just do something....out of the norm.

You are worthy and capable!

[DifRent]

Hey Heavy... thanks for the kind words. I've been GALing, almost too much. Yesterday I had an empty and lonely day till evening when I came to visit my mom. Today, I have three invitations to be social and I have accepted them all.

I'm suddenly very anxious about where I'm going to live, though. I am working on a plan to acquire land and build a very small home, but that won't be accomplished in a month and a half... which is when she wants us both out of the house. It's a whole new source of anxiety for me, on top of starting a new job next week, the boys having moved out... just almost too much change and loss to bear. The depression is real, and it's hard to see much hope.

But I'll get out of bed here in a minute, go to church, and see if I can't put some of this pain in God's hands.

[HeavyD]

Diff

Ok you Have a plan. Good.

Do you want to tell your doctor - Meds may help - they did for me. There is nothing easy about any of this. Believe me I have many days of feeling overwhelmed. But .... One foot in front of the other for both of us.

I am glad you are on this board. Let's see how we can support each other through this horrible time.

Best - Heavy!!

[PigPen]

That's a lot to handle at the same time Dif, no wonder you're feeling overwhelmed and depressed.

Glad to hear that you're going to church and putting some of this in God's hands. You're very strong and doing an amazing job, but we all need a little help, especially in times like this.

Keep posting and reaching out here, we're all in this together and can offer you own love and support through what is definitely an insane time!

Big hug,
PP

[DifRent]

Thanks Heavy and PP... you guys are awesome. Big hugs back. Really want to avoid medication if possible, but if things get to be too much, I'll consider it.

Now get this... I headed out the door toward my car to go meet my friends for brunch. There was a car parked right in front of our townhome, pretty much blocking my car. It was unfamiliar to me... I noticed two bikes on the rack on the back of it, and thought... "that looks like my W's..."

And sure enough, there was the OW in the driver's seat, looking at her phone or something.

I stood there in shock for just a minute, fought the VERY REAL urge to go over there and be violent either with my fists or my words, and came back into the house to try and collect myself. I could not believe they were out there, just sitting in the car, in front of our home. A few minutes later, my W comes walking through the front door. She looks at me like nothing is wrong.

"Hi, how are you?"

I just let her walk past, into the bedroom. She came back out, and I said, "I was fine till just now. What is SHE doing out there, right here in my face?"

"Well, I needed to get some things," she said, as she headed into the garage for some lawn chairs and her bicycle helmet.

"And you have your own car," I said.

"Why are you so upset?" she asked on her way out the door.

"I can't believe you crossed YET ANOTHER boundary. How DARE you bring her anywhere near our home! Get the f**k out of here." And I slammed the door.

My blood was boiling, but I wasn't happy I lost my cool.

A couple of hours later, she called me while I was at my friend's house. I answered.

"I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you were so upset," she said.

I said, "Are you sorry I was upset? Or sorry for what you did? Because there's a big difference."

"I don't get what the big deal is," she started... "We broke up, and..."

"Look," I was calm. "Not going to get into this with you now. You have plans, I have plans. Maybe we'll talk about it this week. For now, I have nothing to say to you. Have a good afternoon."

"Okay, bye."

My God, how dense could this woman possibly be????

I'm just venting here, I know you all have equally dense spouses. But I'm wondering how others might have handled a similar situation, or how you have handled it.

I'm sure Wonka will have something to say...

Off now to watch the World Cup at a sports bar with some other friends. It's been good GALing today. Not even thinking about the difficult week that lies ahead. Tomorrow will take care of itself, right?

[DifRent]

With regard to the exchange above, I'd kind of like to address it in an email instead of a conversation, because I don't want to leave it hanging, but at the same time, I have a feeling a conversation will get heated. Here's what I've written so far, which is a first draft and as much venting to myself as anything, so I KNOW I wrote way too much... maybe Wonka could stop by and help parse it? I won't send till the morning, after I'm pretty sure the OW has gone to work...


So, in order that we refrain from yet another fight, I want to be clear about a few things here in writing, particularly regarding the direction in which you began to take the conversation on the phone yesterday:

FACT: "We" did not break up. People who date break up. Ours was not a dating relationship that didn't work out. We were in a committed, monogamous, intended for life union with two lives intimately entwined and given to each other, no matter how much you try to rewrite the history. Regardless of the "feelings" you began to have but never shared with me, that's what we had. WE didn't break up. YOU decided to trade me in for an older model and fantasy driven good times. Your decision, 100%. Not mine.

FACT: You absolutely have the right to do whatever you want to do. But if you think for a minute that a mere two months after you drop the bomb that completely shatters my life and the future I had planned, I should just be okay seeing you and the other party responsible for this mess in couple mode outside OUR home, well... that's why people think you are "wacko." Because that's a self-absorbed delusional notion that is actually hurtful to the woman for whom you claim to have had pure love all these years - and sooooo completely out of character for the W they've known all these years.

That's all. I really don't want to talk about this, other than to once again ask you to be respectful of me and my feelings, which would require you to think about someone other than yourself long enough to make a decision.

And please, keep this communication between us.

Thank you.
Dif

[PigPen]

Hey Dif, sounds like a really crappy day and very inconsiderate of your W. My personal rule with emails is to sit on them for at least 24 hours. At least that long, maybe a bit longer. I know you don't want to leave it hanging, but what if it does hang for a bit longer?

And yea, my W would describe what we went through as a break up too. I had to tell her that we weren't in junior high and she didn't slide a note into my locker. We were married, and that meant that we were getting divorced or were separated. We didn't break up. It might have been semantics, but call a spade a spade if you're going to be out in the yard shoveling [censored] with it.

Hopefully one of the vets will come by and chime in on this, it's above my pay grade.

[DifRent]

call a spade a spade if you're going to be out in the yard shoveling [censored] with it.

Love this! I enjoy your posts, PP. You're a good writer.

[DifRent]

Well, I didn't get enough advice from the vets before I saw her today, so I didn't send an email.

We sat down on the porch and talked instead, no fighting. I said she needed to stop saying "we broke up" and acknowledge this is a separation/divorce initiated solely by her. She agreed. I told her she was incredibly selfish to get a place lined up for herself without talking to me so we could both determine what we were each going to do. She started to argue, but backed down. I actually think from the tone of her response there was a bit of breakthrough in terms of her understanding just how selfish she's been. A very small one, but something.

Last night at the pub with some friends, I was relaying the story of how the OW came into our lives. One of the women there said, "She's a poacher." Meaning... she's one of those single lesbians who meets a seemingly happy couple and wants to steal that happiness for herself. So she befriends them, perhaps a bit too closely (I definitely felt that from the beginning), and figures out which one is a bit less satisfied than the other with her life/relationship, and thus more vulnerable to being "poached."

Now I see why in the beginning she kept saying she wanted to get to know me better - I guess so she could make her choice! Since she was spending so much time with my W on the real estate business, it was just a matter of time before she was able to identify the weak spots, and pounce.

I'm kind of sick to my stomach about all that. What kind of twisted person does any such thing? Had to spend a few minutes in the car with my W this afternoon and I said, "You know, I learned about an interesting lesbian phenomenon last night..." And after I was done explaining it, she said, "I don't think that's Catherine."

I said, "Well, I know ignorance is bliss, and you are so very blissfully ignorant right now. Just do your due diligence."

She was very quiet after that. But since she was driving, she had to wait to relay that information via text to the OW... IF she did at all, I can't be sure. If she did, I know I gave them more ammunition to be united against me, so not good. But if she didn't - or even if she did - I gave my W something to ponder. And I know she's got it stuck in her head now.

Wonder if I did the right thing...

[Wonka]

Diff,

I wouldn't have mentioned the "poacher" comment to W at all. I've never brought up Ms. Wonka's OW....ever. She's nothing to you.

A more firm response would have been along the lines of "what you and OW did was incredibly disrespectful to me. I am stunned by this behavior. I want to be clear here: OW is never to be permitted to be near, around or in the townhouse. If I ever see the OW around again, I will take steps to address it myself. Are we clear?"

When I learned the extent of Ms. Wonka's A, I got very angry and told her in no uncertain terms that the OW was not to be in or near the house. I ended it with a very strong comment that I would take matters in my own hands if I ever saw the OW around the house. Ms. Wonka knew by the tone of my voice that I meant business.

Of course, Ms. Wonka took their rendezvouses elewhere. I really put my foot down on that one particular issue.

[CaliGuy]

Dif

Just caught up on your sitch ... Glad you did not send that email, Wonka is the expert there but just reading that it struck me as a "Let me tell you what is wrong about you that you didn't know" type thing ... and I have always felt the long emails or TM never come across they way we (Mostly I) would want them to so I have always refrained.

I do relate .. and chuckle a bit about the constant "We broke up" you hear on the boards. Mine did the same, and its like its justified ... I broke up with you so I could PA the OP ... yeah .. thats all it takes, I truth darted mine one night as I openly admitted I had not known about this hidden loophole in a marriage, and looked forward to going out getting drunk and calling my next W up slurring "itsth over" just before I got naked and bed another woman. The look she gave me was a priceless one.

And its not till just recently she has admitted what she did was wrong, but still does not like the term 'affair' or 'boyfriend' yet she can not really give me an alternative to use when these topics come up ... so I will continue to use them for that is what they are.

I do not think the 'poacher' phenomenon(See Predators) is just lesbian biased .. but the angle she could have very well tried to grab you is interesting to think about. And I would wager once she realized you had character .. she would have gone back to door #2 and tried to pick that lock. You did plant a seed however, a very good one that has some truth, without saying it you basically exposed your W and her moment of weakness.

I would let this seed take root, observe the next week or so how she reacts to this and you reaffirming your boundary of OW.

As far as "Did I do the right thing' ... I think there are alot of goods that I seen on this ... now how W reacts is all on her, you were honest, said things you needed to say, not to get a reaction or movement from her ... even if its the wrong thing .. nothing you can do now .. what's done is done, move on and stay on your path.

[DifRent]

Wonka, I did make that much clear. I guess I could have refrained from the poacher story. I know I'm supposed to make it look to my W like the OW is nothing to me. But she really isn't. She's the cause of everything, and I just know she's no good for my W. I also know - in my head - that my W needs to discover this for herself, I can't force the issue. Just sometimes, I lose control. Brush it off and move on, eh?

[DifRent]

Yeah Cali... wasn't ever going to send THAT email. It was more like a fantasy, like the one I wrote to the OW last month. Therapy, maybe. Not a good idea to send.

"I broke up with you so I could PA the OP..." Yes! Again, thanks for affirming I'm not the only one who hears this!

On her way out to the gym a little while ago, she really wanted to know more about "who told me what" regarding the OW and the whole poaching scenario. Of course, I only planted a seed (and nobody told me anything... someone last night just showed me a 22 year old photo of the OW and recalls knowing her in a "former" life, which I did show my W as a "visual accompaniment" to my poaching story.. but there is no story to tell). It has her bothered, and I will just leave it at that. I have nothing more to say, because literally... I have nothing more to say.

[Bob723]

Just sometimes, I lose control. Brush it off and move on, eh?

Hi DifRent,

Well, your quote above proves one thing - you are human. Yes, we all make mistakes, especailly during such emotionally trying times.

Please, brush it off and move on, and consider it a learning experience. Hang in there!

*hugs*

Bob

[DifRent]

Thanks Bob. I'm hanging in there the best I can... thanks in no small part to everyone here. What a godsend this site is, no? Even if it's the last place any of us want to be...

*hugs* back
Dif

[PigPen]

Sounds a bit like your W now feels like she's not the uniquely chosen snowflake that she thought she was Dif. It may not be strict DB'ing but the seed has been planted it sounds like,

I would imagine your W is lost in the fantasy that she's found her new life partner and everything is going to be just perfect forever. Hearing that she's been suckered is going to be a blow to that fantasy.

Stay cool on this one, as you said, you've got nothing more to say. Anything additional and it may come off as a purposefully planted seed, not a real one.

Here's to a good week for us all.

PP

[DifRent]

PigPen... thanks. And yes... here's to a good week for us all.

I'm going to pray tomorrow morning at Mass for everyone on this thread, and all of your spouses. Next week I start my new job, so this week? It's all about prayer. I hope it yields tangible fruit for someone, however God wills it. You all are wonderful people. Hugs...

[DifRent]

So... for those of you interested in the continuing saga here...

My W has been cold and distant for a good week, and was moving in that direction for weeks prior. No physical affection, short and curt responses, the abandonment of our terms of endearment like "hon" and "babe." Last evening things got a bit heated again, but I could see all day she was feeling guilty, coming just a bit to terms with how poorly she's been treating me, particularly with regard to our separation and upcoming individual living arrangements. She left to go the gym but was planning to come home and sleep here last night, but she never did, so I figured she was angry and only getting angrier with me.

My mom and I chatted on Skype last night, and she said she found herself praying that God would remove the OW from my W's life. She also forwarded an email to me that my W had sent her over a year ago, where she spoke of a song from the musical Les Miserables where the bishop says he has "bought" Jean Valjean's "soul for God," and how she wanted to come home, be baptized, and find God's purpose for her life. I was reminded that THIS is the woman I love, and there is no doubt she's still in there somewhere.

Went to Mass this morning as I've been doing every morning, and prayed the current novena for her, as well as some other very intentional, even insistent prayers. I started to leave, but felt moved to go back one more time and pray one particular prayer - I said, "God, please let me see some sign today that you are answering these prayers, that her heart is softening, that she's feeling conflicted about what she's doing, that she might come back to you, and, if it's your will, maybe even me."

I came back to the house, feeling also as if I wanted to apologize to her for any harsh words spoken yesterday. She wasn't home, which wasn't a surprise... but she came back not long after. Right away, she thanked me for putting out the trash, and I asked why she was thanking me for doing a household chore that needed to be done. She smiled, came over to me, and gave me the warmest hug I've gotten in a long time. I leaned into it, kissed her cheek, and apologized for any hurtful things I'd said yesterday. She dismissed it, ruffled my hair and squeezed my bicep. "Wow, I feel a strong muscle there!"

Suddenly, "hon" and "babe" seems to have returned to her vocabulary with every sentence she speaks. She started some laundry, asked if I had any to do, and gathered it for me. Then she asked if I'd make her a green smoothie... "I miss your smoothies," she said. And of course I obliged. She also needed to order some new realtor yard signs, and since that used to be my job description and she didn't quite know how to access the site to do it, I went up to the office and quickly took care of it... reminding her, I'm sure, of how much more efficient her business was when I was part of it.

Now... I am not reading too much into all this. I'm just saying I had a very specific prayer intention this morning for some kind of small sign... and I think I got it. I know I planted some seeds yesterday, and it's also possible that they've started to grow, just a little bit. I need to use this fresh start to refrain from any more arguments, to remain kind to her, and do all of this with no expectations whatsoever. Because it's not like the OW is going away tomorrow, and it's not like they don't still have all kinds of plans. That whole thing still probably has a good long course to run.

But I just need to be the lighthouse, and keep shining...

[CaliGuy]

Dif ... great post and it warms my heart to read it.

Keep at it, and yeah .. days like that ^^^^ sometimes give us some fuel to keep on our path and continue to do what we are in control of, just remember .. not to high .. not to low, you are the lighthouse and the rock ... you are the strong one, you are the prize.

You planted some serious Jack and the Beanstalk type beans the past few days ... suddenly your W might be really thinking .. "what am I doing" ... this needs time .. time to become "What have I done" and she will need to ask you what she can do, willing to do anything to make the M work .... till then continue to DB your muscular tucus off as you have been, you are doing well.

[Wonka]

Way to go, Diff! Keep it up, sweetie.

[DifRent]

Thanks Cali and Wonka.

Finally had that "nefarious" lunch with my mom and the mortgage lender that we felt was set up by a prompting of the Holy Spirit. W and I drove over together, and things were really quite pleasant - some talk of what furniture I want to keep, what she wants as we move to separate spaces, that sort of thing. Actually may have even figured out a way for me to stay here a bit longer and just move into one of our rentals while I secure land and build... which if that's the case, takes not only a huge load off my mind, but doesn't completely sever ties between us, which is what I know the OW wants.

Anyway, at lunch, my W was on the phone and texting as usual in the beginning, till our mortgage lender friend told her to put it down! There was a fair amount of talk about real estate and business, but it seemed at just the right time, the mortgage lender told her own story of being baptized and spiritually attacked not long after - particularly about a period of sexual promiscuity that she "just knew was wrong. I eventually woke up and came out of it, but till then, I had just thrown all God's graces away."

I was sitting next to my W, but my mom paid attention to her reactions. She said she was attentive, and listening. Have no idea if any of what was said will stick with her, but she heard it in a way that wasn't judgmental or accusatory or even directed at her, and she can't unhear it. So, we just keep praying, and DBing, and we'll see where things go... still a very long road ahead, either way.

[CaliGuy]

Dif

Seeds .. seeds and more seeds ..... now just as a farmer would do, you have planted, watered ... stand back and let nature do its own thing. Let these things take root ... you can not mess with them right?... If you do it will kill the plants. Give them space and Sun (PMA)

I do think there is something to truly giving it all to God for a bit ... be at peace with that, even more importantly become quiet so you can hear His directions and see His signs.

[DifRent]

Cali, I've been attending daily Mass and praying quite faithfully. I hate that it took something like this to get me to become more devoted to my faith, but isn't that often the way?

I have no doubt my own faith is being strengthened by all this. Surrender is the word one woman used at the Divorce Support group last week. I know I really need to practice that, and give her to Him. You are an inspiration in this regard, and in sticking things out for the long haul. Thanks for all the support you offer.

[DifRent]

Tonight, I am working on having no expectations.

I know my W and the OW went to some regular Tuesday creativity class or something tonight. (Which cracks me up, because this was clearly the OW's idea, something my W in any mind other than "affair brain fog mind" would NEVER sign up for.) I just got back from my divorce support group, and because we had a day that wasn't completely cold or acrimonious, one that even had some kindness and warmth, I kind of want her to come home. Not that she'd spend meaningful time with me. Not that she'd be anywhere other than upstairs in the spare bedroom. But... I would like for her to sleep here tonight, instead of there.

Knowing her, she probably wants to. Knowing the OW, she is probably pressuring her to stay there. Knowing the situation, all of this still has a very long way to go before any hint of reconciliation is possible.

None of this is my business, or my concern. Detachment, no expectations, things are what they are. Give her to God. Let the planted seeds take root, and give them time. I'm learning. Every day, I'm learning.

________________________________________________________________

PS And just now... very odd. She called me to say, "I'm just calling because I haven't been home much lately, and I wanted to see if you needed anything." I said, "no, I'm okay." She said, in a quiet sort of voice with a television on in the background, "Okay well, I'm not coming home again tonight, so you can bolt the front door." "Okay." "Okay well, I'll see you tomorrow." "Okay. Goodnight." All of this in sort of a whisper...

She has never called to tell me she's not coming home. In fact, if she has to communicate anything these days, she typically texts. Although I'm trying to DETACH, I can't help but wonder what that was all about...

[DifRent]

This morning, I saw the floor plan for my W's "hood" apartment, with notes about furniture she wants to bring there. She's pretty much told me everything she wants to keep already, but I couldn't help noticing that she plans to give our dining room table to the OW, when she moves into her new place this month. The table at which the OW sat and had dinner with my family three months ago... a dinner to which she invited herself the same day we returned from a long road trip, a dinner I made for her... while she plotted how to destroy us. This is something that really bothers me, and I'm taking to prayer at church this morning...

[DifRent]

Journaling...

I'm home, she's home... and she's started packing. She came down to tell me what a bear it's going to be packing and moving. I really couldn't respond other than to nod.

I've also learned she's looking to trade in her car for a newer, more sporty model. None of this feels good. She's plowing into her new life with her new partner, and all the GALing and detaching in the world can't stop it - not that it's supposed to. All I can do is pray and let her go.

Pit in my stomach today...

[CaliGuy]

Dif

Been there ... done that. You can only control what you do, and how you react to these things. Like I said .. those seeds were planted .. freshly planted.

Right now she is high on the A drug, and very well high on the "New Chapter" drug ... a M can not compete short term with this rush, just can't. However all she is building on has an extremely weak foundation, you know this.

The sporty sports model? Well ... again, her choice and her decision right... not your circus not your monkey.

I feel ya though, I really do, remember you have to let God work a bit, trust what he has in store for you.

[DifRent]

Yeah Cali, I know. We brought the not so sporty car to the carwash just now, and while we waited went to our favorite European coffee shop across the street. Tried very hard not to mess with the planted seeds and stick to neutral topics, but she kept bringing things up. Plenty of them had to do with how we weren't a good couple and she's not coming back to me. But other things she said:

"So, what is this thing you know about OW that I don't know?" (I waved it off.)

"I have no idea if things will last with OW, I'm just having a good time." I nodded.

"We had a great relationship. I know you love me." I nodded.

Plus, she acknowledged that she can't accurately assess our relationship while in the middle of this torrid affair, and she hinted at certain creeping issues in her relationship with the OW, nothing specific. Interesting that she shared that.

Only argument we had was in the car on the way back over a FedEx notice for a package that one of us needs to go pick up - it was stupid and we even started laughing about it. She said, "I will be home tonight, but I'll be late. I miss my bed."

And on her way out the door she said, "I love you."

Makes my head spin... which is why as painful as separating is, I know we need to do it. She can't see anything clearly, and I'm starting to doubt my own sanity at times. These small glimpses of hope are certainly tempered by her insistence that we are DONE. Only the folks on this board don't think I'm crazy for continuing to love her.

[Sotto]

Wow Difrent, that is just the kind of talk that could drive an LBS crazy. I truly believe that this is where the believe nothing they say and 50% of what they do truly comes into it's own.

Some of what she says resonates and is similar to things my H has said. There is a real sense of no guilt from her just now. And a sense of entitlement - to having a good time with OW - and knowing you love her. Perhaps she needs to come to doubt your love for her. Feel she is losing you. This coupled with the probable demise of R with OW - and what happens next is anyone's game.

I'm not surprised you doubt your own sanity at times. These are pretty insane times, and this is where detachment helps for sure. If you are able to 'observe' exchanges like that almost as a third party, and with a logical DB mind - perfect. That is a good alternative to feeling your sanity being swept away.

Know this dif - IMHO she has little good to offer you just now. I don't think you are crazy to still love her. But recognise where she is and have your boundaries firmly drawn around you. Things may well change in time of course. From what you post, her current state of mind and situation don't sound sustainable in the longer term.

Hang on in there!!

[CaliGuy]

"So, what is this thing you know about OW that I don't know?" (I waved it off.)

"I have no idea if things will last with OW, I'm just having a good time." I nodded.

"We had a great relationship. I know you love me." I nodded.

All seeds of doubt she is starting to process. #2 I got from W .... recieved a "He's not you" early on before I was ever here Jan14.

Dif all 3 of these things are good, and yeah, as painful as it is ... even in my sitch the separation was required, required for my W to realize it was not solely me as the reason for her unhappiness, given time she was even more miserable with OM. She would never miss me if we did not split. My Separation is most likely going to be at the 2 year mark, something I questioned early on and one vet told me that at 2 years it would most likely be over .... well I am still here in the ring.

Do not look at the Sep as defeat Dif, it has to happen to speed things up with the A, it will begin to eliminate some of the drug induced feelings, the sneaking around and hiding things will be gone.

Like My W, yours checks in with you, shares things still ... keep that line open, just set your boundaries on things you need to. She knows you still love her, at this point feels she can do the A without any price to pay ... I have a hunch after separation when its easier for you to detach more, she will question if she is losing you ... then movement happens.

Plus, she acknowledged that she can't accurately assess our relationship while in the middle of this torrid affair, and she hinted at certain creeping issues in her relationship with the OW, nothing specific. Interesting that she shared that.

Only argument we had was in the car on the way back over a FedEx notice for a package that one of us needs to go pick up - it was stupid and we even started laughing about it. She said, "I will be home tonight, but I'll be late. I miss my bed."

And on her way out the door she said, "I love you."

Makes my head spin... which is why as painful as separating is, I know we need to do it. She can't see anything clearly, and I'm starting to doubt my own sanity at times. These small glimpses of hope are certainly tempered by her insistence that we are DONE. Only the folks on this board don't think I'm crazy for continuing to love her.

All this ... still good things right? Take them for what they are, again ... resort to the 50% rule.

I chuckle at the "people on this board comment" (And totally agree with you) W was telling me a story about a friend of hers, cheated on her H and after they split H dropped rope and moved on, and she was critical of how the guy was dating a younger woman and left this 'poor girl', I STFU and asked "Did you expect him to be ok with the A and just wait around?" She started to answer and realized ... 'oh .. ummmm' I just smiled like Sylvester who at Tweety bird

[DifRent]

You know, I did say to her at the coffee shop, "I've always known you to be rational, logical, and practical. Yet you're making every decision right now based on emotion. This just isn't like you."

I could tell she really heard that, and she nodded. She confessed she was scared about the business, scared of the future... that's why she's buying the "house in the hood" and mitigating her expenses. This is the woman who has spent years working around the world making six figures, and if my real W would pull back and look at things with some perspective, I think she'd be horrified at herself.

In fact, just days after the bomb drop, she kept saying this was all a nightmare and she was already horrified. She's moved on from those feelings, or is minimizing them now. But she did have them and probably still does, somewhere in there.

I just let her talk those things through. And mindful that she is operating purely from emotion, I need to work even harder to operate from a place of observation and detachment - for both of us.

[Wonka]

Diff,

If I were you, I'd pull back and drink the strawberry-flavored STFU Smoothie. For real.

Once W is in the sketchy 'hood, things will slowly start to unravel for her and I predict that the OW will become super B!TCHY toward her. From what you've posted in ALL of your threads about the OW and her comments, it sounds like a very demanding woman with a very high-pitched voice.

Ekkk! I would tire of her very quickly...but I am not in MLC or a WAW. Heck, I wouldn't even shoot the breeze with her at Dollywood!!!

[DifRent]

Haha, Wonka. The woman is CREEPY.

I'm doing my best with the STFU smoothie. Thanks for the reminder. Really going to redouble my efforts as of now. It's just so hard when I see glimpses of my real W.

Control issues... we all have them... and I know they have no place when we are DBing...

I am glad, though, to have today gotten some kind of hint that things are not all that rosy in "paradise." Had I only been drinking that smoothie, I would have no idea. It's something to hold onto, however tenuous.

(Btw... my W keeps saying, "Stop telling people my new place is in the hood. It's not the hood. You're just telling them that so they'll think I'm crazy." Well, all I have to do is show them photos...)

[Bob723]

Hi DifRent,

I'm sorry that things aren't going better. Hang tough, you are really trying, I can see that.

If the STFU smoothie runs out make sure you have plenty of duct tape around.

My prayers are always with you!

Bob

[DifRent]

Thanks, Bob! I think of you every day, and pray for you every time I do.

[Bob723]

Aww, you're welcome, DifRent, you just made my evening!

*hugs*

Bob

[DifRent]

She never came home last night, but sent an email this morning apologizing for that, saying she didn't want to drive in the storms. Seemed odd to me that she apologized... I'm the one who keeps asking why she bothers coming home.

I wrote back and asked her to pick up a few groceries for when she did come home today, and she was quick to oblige. I invited the boys over for dinner tonight and asked my older son to cook his specialty, eggplant, assuming of course that the W wouldn't be here. But as she brought the groceries in, she said, "So, are we having the boys over for dinner tonight?"

I'm thinking she is going to be here all day, and maybe all night? This hasn't happened in a long time. But if she's been missing her bed, and missing being here to any extent, then I need to do my best to be pleasant and remind her that THIS is her home... even as she and the OW are steadily wrecking it...

[Wonka]

Diff,

Your main goal is to present a stark contrast to the OW. You are the prize. This means making your home warm, cozy, and inviting. When your W moves out to the 'hood, she will reflect on those times and the wheels will start to churn inside her noggin. Of course, she may not tell you this lest she, gasps!, give you any glimmer of hope.

Sit very still and watch the squirrel scurry about here and there.

You would want to make your home environment Mitford cozy. Haven't you read any of the Mitford series by Jan Karon? Wonderful reading!

[DifRent]

Wonka, my best friend through all this mess calls my W a "squirrel who will chase anything." Funny you use that term.

I made us both green smoothies just now, and I've chosen to work up here in our office for a while today on my entrepreneurial project. We're not really saying anything to each other, but it's not as tense as it was the last time we both tried working in the same room. In a little while, I will go downstairs and clean the house, something that needs to be done and I know she appreciates. And if she does plan to be here for dinner tonight, I'll be sure it's as warm and inviting as it can possibly be.

That's all I can do, as she continues to text the OW how much she loves her...

[Fogg]

Mutual friend tells me W is acting like a teenager with a massive crush. The OM is a incubus and W seems to be like a cutter who keeps going back for more and more because she likes the pain and/or cant help it.

Seems about right. One day we can hope they see all that we have done and our real value while OW/OM just used them. If not maybe we are better off anyway.

[DifRent]

Yeeesh... I went to put some trash in the recycling bin just now, and I saw that while beginning to pack and purge yesterday, she had tossed a bunch of my books, including my high school yearbook, in there!

I knew it wasn't intentional, so I approached her about it when she came home - not with anger, but with concern. She clearly felt bad about it, but it continues to point to how she's just not right in the head these days. I guess this gives me some kind of glimmer of hope, that she's not right in the head and this too shall pass... but it also means maybe I need to be around while she's throwing stuff out!

Except she's said three times now how bad she feels about having done that. So maybe she'll be more careful going forward.

Strange day here, both of us in the house almost the whole time, working together in the office kind of like the "old days."

It got me thinking, though... yes, like the old days. So what was wrong with the old days? What should we have done differently?

We'd be in this office, and we'd work, and maybe we didn't interact enough, take enough breaks, get enough space. We used to always grab and kiss each other spontaneously, maybe once or twice a day. Now that I know touch is her love language, maybe I didn't do it enough?

Nothing we could do about it today to turn back the clock or change our course towards what I see as a disaster for both of us. I don't think there was anything about today that was warmly nostalgic, unfortunately. Maybe there will be if we share a little wine after dinner, if she agrees to quit working. I suspect she isn't going to the OW's at all tonight, much less going to sleep there, since she's not slept here in at least a week.

I wonder if the seeds I planted this week are growing, or if she's just forcing them down deep into places of her psyche she never visits. I wonder, but all I can do is continue to give her to God.

[DifRent]

Okay... somewhat off topic question, but would like some input from the group...

Last August, my W and I took a month long vacation in her homeland of Albania. It's such an amazing place, so many places still stuck way back in time, a vastly different culture than ours. During 50 years of communist rule, the country was also officially atheist... so all the churches were shut down. When communism fell in the early 90's they all opened again... there are so many of them, so many different sizes and styles, mostly Greek Orthodox.

While we were there, we embarked on a project. She's a great photographer, and I'm a writer. So we decided we were going to do a photo book with stories about as many churches as we could visit during that month. We probably got to as many as 30 of them, and at each place, we'd find a local villager who could tell us the story of the church, who also maybe had a key to let us in, all of that. My W would take the photos, and I would record their stories, while she translated.

Well, needless to say, we hit the real estate business running when we got home, and this project has been on the back burner ever since. I still want to complete it, but beyond that, I think it has the potential to bring the two of us to a place that the OW simply cannot go - to a warm and special time we shared, talking about churches and God and faith, and imagining this project taking shape.

I guess my question is about timing: I was listening to one of the interviews yesterday and wrote my piece. If I send it to her now and ask her to choose accompanying photos and work on a page layout, while we're in the midst of "separating," would it come across as a ploy? Should I maybe wait until we ARE separated for a little bit, and I've written stories for several churches, and then present her with the idea - maybe after "real life" settles in a bit with the OW (who, by the way, had no idea when we met her where Albania even is on the map)?

Just looking for some feedback. This idea came to me today, again not as a ploy, but perhaps as an opportunity - as God gently reminding me that His time is the right time, we do indeed have something she can never share with the OW, and working on that project might rekindle some emotions and remind her of a deeper love.

The question is... when?

[CaliGuy]

Dif

Timing is everything ... I know you are in the right spot and your heart is in the right place ... but to soon, this would add pressure, you just planted all those choice seeds and in my head you are stomping all over em with this one.

Now if you do this on your own, off to the side ... keep it a TOP secret ... let the A run its course, lets think best case scenario and W gets her wits about her again .. you two start to reconnect and she finally admits her mistakes, shows remorse and you begin piecing ... what a wonderful gift for a birthday/Christmas ... rough drafts that show you were busy completing a project you started with her during the worst of times.

To toss this at her now ... honestly IMO .. to much ... she has alot on her plate she needs to finish first.

[DifRent]

Cali, I think you're absolutely right about this. Thanks for the confirmation. I will work on it without telling her, and this would be something nice to present around Christmastime, you're right...

My kids and one of my nephews came over for dinner tonight. We very naturally and organically got around to the topic of thinking about our deathbeds, what God wants from us in our lives, His will, etc... seriously, no agenda. It just happened. She couldn't stay for long, went upstairs to start packing again.

I will pray a few extra prayers for her tonight...

[DifRent]

Tonight, she was here. Home. We decided to go out and get a Redbox movie, some story about real estate and a very long term couple. It was okay. What was notable was that we watched the movie together on the couch like we have a thousand times before. I took one of the pillows and perched it between her legs, no protest as I rested my head there. She touched me a few times. When it was over, she gave me a kind of cold "hug" goodnight and started up the stairs...then came back down and gave me another, with a kiss on the cheek.

Not that any of this means anything to her now. But it might. On the way to get the movie, I made a crack that Wonka would slap me for: "Your mistress must be busy tonight." She said back: "I needed a break."

Hmmm.

And on the way back home with the DVD, I can't even remember what the comment was I made about my career. But whatever it was, it compelled her to grab my thigh and squeeze it, for minutes at least.

After the movie and our "goodnights" to each other, I decided to make her coffee for the morning, so she won't have to. We have plans to see a property in the early afternoon, and then, she will be off to her OW and I will be off to giving her to God. Which is hard, but clearly the only way.

I miss her. She misses something of me. But is that enough?

[PigPen]

Big hug Dif. I'm sure it's hard to be in the same house with your W but you're doing well. Maybe less Wonka-slap-worthy comments, but it sounds like it went over well. I'd be tempted to get a dig in there too and surely have with mine.

Keep doing your work, and DB'ing, I have a feeling that your seeds are still in there.

PP

[DifRent]

Thanks, PP. It is hard, but there are stretches when she's not here and almost full time at the OW's house, and those are hard in a different way.

She's given indications to me that this thing with the OW isn't all that serious. But she gives the exact opposite impression to the OW. (Having read some texts, I know this.) Hard to know where the truth really lies, and it's just clear to me that here and now, in the midst of the A, I cannot compete. They consider each other life partners already, or at least that's what the texts indicate. This is the sort of thing that gets me down when she's not here. When she is, it's the mixed messages that she doesn't even know she's delivering. It's the talks that often morph into arguments. It's her being here but her mind and heart being somewhere else. That's why last night, just watching a movie together, was the most pleasant time we've had together in a long time. Short-lived and didn't mean anything to her, I'm sure. Other than it may have planted a little seed that will remind her of our once calm and peaceful life together.

Patience... I know. It's a long, long road.

[Wonka]

Diff,

To help with PMA, try not to read texts or emails between W and OW. Right now, they're high on A dopamine. And what's that comment about "your mistress" all about?! You know it's best to zip it about the OW.

Trust me...things are not always rosy. I've been here for almost 10 year and many LBS report that their spouses open up about their life with XOM/XOW...it is NEVER what you imagined. Don't engage in thoughts that they're happy and all is rainbows, cotton candy and popsciles. It is ALWAYS ht opposite.

Why do the WASes declare that they're much happier and better off with the OW/OM? Because they want to give you the impression that they've made the right decision and they'd be damned to admit that they're wrong. So they persist in this type of narrative. Oh no...they just don't want to climb down and admit any wrong doing.

Yep, patience is the name of the game.

[CaliGuy]

^^x2

Dif .... you can also look at it this way. That A, in the beginning, see it for what it is, forbidden fruit, it was all hot and exciting, secretive, not allowed because .... well it was wrong.

As the A runs its course, yes no M can compete with those new highs, the freshness of it all, the rush and excitement that comes with it, we experienced those feelings early on in our relationships ....thing is, that A is the rabbit, and the M is the turtle, the M slow and steady for several YEARS ... that A rush ... simply months and as it dies the WAS and OP will try and try to recreate that rush ... but inevitably fail.

My W's A began in Feb13 with OM emailing her that he was leaving his W, out M was ripe for the taking at that time as I had lost my father in 2012 and still struggling, seems the EA started blossoming Jul13, BD Sep13 and sep Nov13. High A rush from there but in my case I lost count ... atleast 6 break ups (maybe more) between Jan14 and Jan15. I made a gang of mistakes as I did not find this place till Aug14.

When I gave my M and W to God, granted it was painfully hard, but at that point in my life it was either let go or sink with the ship. Gave her to God, DB'd and rediscovered Cali, created Cali 2.0 and looking back, I think I needed the journey ... as hurtful and painful as it has been, not that I would want to do it over .. but it was necessary.

No true growth comes without suffering. When you suffer enough you change ... its evolution of the soul and spirit.

Trust Dif, there are little bread crumbs there that I see, but I really think she has to lose you to realize what a huge mistake she is making. You just need to trust this will work out with or without W .. you will be ok regardless.

Stay the course.

[DifRent]

Wonka and Cali, thanks as always for your wisdom and support.

I agree, really feel it in my gut that yes, she has to lose me before she completely realizes what she had with me. She is working overtime to impress and please the OW, who is needy and clingy and constantly doing social things. I know my W is enjoying the change of pace right now, and the dopamine high of course, but it's not a sustainable pace for her. Intellectually, I get all this. It's my heart that has trouble.

We went out this morning and looked at a property together. On the way back, she informed me that she has "dinner plans," and asked if I had dinner plans. I said I missed our Albanian pizza Friday nights - and you know, a few weeks ago, I think she would have dismissed or ignored that comment (or suggested I eat leftovers or do laundry!) But today, she said, "Oh. Maybe we can have the boys over sometime next week and do Albanian pizza." I think she enjoyed our family dinner last night, up until we got into "God talk," anyway.

She also complimented me on how I look today, and right now in fact, she is sitting beside me at the kitchen counter working on her laptop, instead of upstairs in the office. She's never done this before. Trying not to read into things, but if she has come back to enjoying my presence, I'm going to make it a presence that she misses deeply when she's gone.

[CaliGuy]

Dif I agree ... and I also feel given the arrangement you are much to available to her.

She told you she "needed a break" so there you both were .. nice evening on the couch. Fast forward a bit when she again needs a break .... but you are not there. Guess what happens ... she now will get a break from OW, but find herself alone with her thoughts, dangerous place for her to be right?

She is currently on a cake eat fest ... she has OW when she wants .. and when that's not available she has you and family time ... I did the same .. pick your spots here, I know some might say pull the rug out from under her .. but I gave W a taste here n there ... like my own drug .. the family drug which is a better high than the A drug as it is REAL .... but there came a time I was tired of dealing, dropped rope and I pulled the plug. At that point she found herself alone on the beach missing family .. not OM and the A.

[DifRent]

Yes Cali, just what I was thinking. She's enjoying my presence here right now, and she'll be here for a few hours before her "dinner plans." She doesn't know I'm leaving for my own plans in about half an hour, and as soon as I say goodbye, she'll react with, "Where are you going?"

By the way, she's not going to like living alone. She lived alone overseas for 15 years, and when she finally settled here, she was so happy to be surrounded by love and warmth. My suspicion is this: she'll be at the OW's house more often than not. Until the OW grates on her nerves and she needs more frequent and longer breaks. And those breaks will be in a tiny ramshackle place in a less than desirable neighborhood. And that's when I'm hoping thoughts of missing me will kick in... when I'll either be in one of our nicer rentals, or in the place I am building for myself.

To which a repentant and willing to reform W will be most welcome.

[CaliGuy]

DIf

Nothing speeds up the demise of an A more than good ol quality time together ... and with your OW this is going to be like a pressure cooker.

At the moment you are the 'out' for W ... when W no longer has to 'sneak' around ... no fun, no rush .. and no reason to NOT be with OW, I can just feel the steel cage feeling close in on her. Her circus and her monkeys ... and yeah you are right .. when she does escape for her 'break' its Slumdog time and reality of "WTF have I done" sets in.

I have this image of a war scene from BraveHeart in my head ... the enemy forces are rapidly approaching on horse back, the ground troops await the stampeded ... little does anyone know they have long spears hidden but must wait till the last second and BraveHeart continues to shout the order "Hold"

Stay the course Dif, she needs this ... and better yet I feel you do to, listen to my advice and use this time to build yourself .... its golden.

[DifRent]

I appreciate the encouragement, Cali. There's not much sneaking around, though. She doesn't hesitate to text in my presence, is very clear about "dinner plans" and "not coming home tonight." As my son put it to a friend rather angrily over a month ago, "She's doing this [censored] right in front of my mother, and I can't believe how disrespectful she is." I don't know how much of a rush she's getting from the illicit nature of this. Really, she considers our relationship dead, and just wants to have a new life with her "new partner." They long for something more normal and accepted. She would prefer, from what I can tell, to just replace the old relationship with the new one, and for the new one to come across as completely respectable - a choice made in order to make herself happy, and what's wrong with that?

All that being said, I do agree enough seeds have been planted this week for her to begin to question whether in the long run this new relationship is really what she wants. In the meantime, it's Friday night... which means she's out having a fabulous dinner downtown and I'm home drinking wine alone. At least I'm not eating leftovers or doing laundry.

[Matt777]

She didn't ask you to transfer her laundry again?

[DifRent]

Not tonight, Matt. I think she's mostly been doing her laundry at the OW's house.

[PigPen]

Enjoy your wine Dif. I know it has the delicious aftertaste of integrity. Every glass you have for the rest of your life will too.

I'm having an ice cold ginger beer and looking forward to happier days.

Cheers!

PP

[Matt777]

Enjoy your wine Dif. I know it has the delicious aftertaste of integrity. Every glass you have for the rest of your life will too.

I'm having an ice cold ginger beer and looking forward to happier days.

Cheers!

PP

Had my glass of Buffalo Trace on the back deck already. Cheers!

[DifRent]

Cheers, my friends!

[DifRent]

One thing I'm feeling good about tonight as I drink the wine with the aftertaste of integrity is that this is probably the first time she's headed off to spend the night with the OW where I haven't left the bad taste of bitterness in her mouth. There can be no drama to discuss with the OW about how unreasonable I am, or angry, or whatever. Ever since Tuesday, our interactions have been at worst civil, at best warm.

Seeds of doubt about the integrity of the OW have been planted.

She has felt guilty about how she's treated me.

And last night was emblematic of everything that was ever right, good, and attractive about our M.

She may be playing the game well with the OW tonight, professing her love and whatever other nonsense serves the purpose. But I know there is conflict going on somewhere inside that head and that heart. As there should be.

I really, really, REALLY want to be a success story on this board. If so, I won't ever leave so that I can pay it forward. Till then, I will keep praying and DBing.

(And I'm done with my wine, off to read and see if I can comment on other sitches, then hit the sack.)

[WBM]

Thanks for commenting on my sitch, Dif. I really appreciate the words of wisdom and support.

I read your sitch everyday. I will say that I see improvement in both the interaction with your W and in you. The seeds seem to be taking hold, and maybe with their growth, the fog will start to clear.

I pray for you everyday - I want you to be a success story too!

Many hugs!

[DifRent]

Thanks, WBM.

I have come to hate Saturdays. I'm not as depressed as I was last Saturday, but I'm definitely feeling lonely. I don't seem to have enough GAL plans for some reason. Sundays I do. But not Saturdays. My younger son is coming for dinner later, that's about it. This morning all I'm doing is reading the boards and doing my best not to think about my W and the OW. Looking forward to my new job on Monday, if for no reason other than to keep me occupied and distracted.

[Matt777]

Go by a new dress or something for tomorrow?

[DifRent]

Actually, I just took my mom to the airport - which was a trigger. We live 5 minutes from the airport, and with all the traveling my W has done up until this past fall, any trip there makes me think of her - of the joy I felt whenever she arrived, and the sadness I used to feel when dropping her off - a sadness which, had I only known about THIS sadness - I would have joyfully embraced.

One of my promises to her was that as long as I lived, she'd never have to ask anyone else to take her to or get her from the airport. It's still my promise, but for now, not one she cares about.

I really hate shopping, Matt! I do have to get my son from work in a bit, and he's going to keep me company this afternoon. He's a good boy.
___________________________________________________________________

She's hosting an open house right now... if you're not in real estate, you don't know how boring these events can be - I used to go with her to some of them just to offer company. So I was wondering if she would call me while there - and she just did.

Very friendly, telling me about potential prospects, but she had to hang up when more people came in. I sent her an email this morning hinting at a financially prudent way for us to move into new living arrangements, and my gut tells me that's why she's calling, so she can get more details - though I said "let's talk about it when you get home." And who knows when that will be.

I'm not going to talk to her about it on the phone. We'll talk when she gets home. THIS is home. At least until it isn't.

[DifRent]

She said she'd call back, but she never did. She was probably bored at the open house and the OW was busy, so she turned to cake eating. I probably shouldn't have answered at all.

My son and I went to look at tiny houses this afternoon, which was good for my PMA - thinking and dreaming about this project, which he'd be happy to work on with me. I'm going to Mass this evening, day seven of the novena... then I'll come home and make a nice dinner for my boy and me.

I will try to only think of my W today when I pray for her.

[DifRent]

(Journaling...)

Well, I lost it at Mass tonight. I was praying very hard over this whole situation, and for my W... and I just got this overwhelming feeling that this is exactly what I'm being called to do right now. She has a heart of stone, she's mired in darkness and sin - and the Lord is sending me to break that heart and pull her out of that sin, not by force, but through prayer. I don't know how things will play out or if her heart will ever be open to these graces, but I'm called to love her right now through my prayers.

I thought about how hard that is, to love this way, from afar, through such pain and sacrifice, while the OW gets the "cheap" but much more attractive version of her right now - all the attention, the affection, the fun. I have to keep reminding myself that what they have right now cannot last, and that the love I have for her is the real deal. Whether she ever wakes up and sees this or not, that's what it is, and this is what I'm called to do.

That lighthouse story is so spot on.

Going to open a bottle of wine and start dinner, maybe watch a movie with my boy. I really feel the ache tonight of not being able to do all this with her, and knowing she's likely doing similar things with someone else...

[Matt777]

Feeling it right along with you tonight, Dif. Long day with the kiddos...miss being able to just curl up and relax together.

[DifRent]

Yeah Matt... how about tonight we both agree to have faith that we are DBing the best we can, and despite what they say or how they act, our spouses are missing us somehow, some way too. And that perhaps the day will come when all this hardship winds up being the catalyst for truly amazing and new relationships with our spouses down the road.

I think sometimes we have to believe that's the direction we're headed. We have to employ positive thinking. After all, our hope for reconciliation is the driving reason we're here.

[DifRent]

One last post for this thread... put pretty much the same post on Fogg's thread, but thought it was appropriate to post here, too...

I might be dating myself with these lyrics, but maybe not... they were still penned a few years before I was born... Simon and Garfunkel...

April come she will
When streams are ripe and swelled with rain
May she will stay
Resting in my arms again
June she'll change her tune
In restless walks she'll prowl the night

July she will fly
And give no warning to her flight
August die she must
The autumn winds blow chilly and cold
September I remember
A love once new has now grown old

When I heard a clip of this tonight and looked it up to listen, I was at first thinking, of course, of my own relationship with my W. I mean, to line up the months... June was rough, July is when she will close on her house, August is when she'll move out, and September is when I'll be left alone with my ruminations...

But as I listened again, and realized this was from The Graduate soundtrack, I thought of it more as a song lamenting the very quick demise of an illicit relationship... an affair, basically. And their affair began, of course, in April...

Now, this song makes things go a bit too quickly. But the point is, in the grand scheme of things, in the midst of, as my good friend puts it, the "80 year plan," any affair is but a blip on the radar. Which gives me hope on the one hand... even as I sometimes think this is a waste of my time, and I'm just being played for a fool.

Will keep listening to this one. I encourage others to do the same.