gan 7 - Ants Marching

[gan]

Well, it's been a big couple of weeks for me. On the work front, I learned a paper has just been accepted to a pretty big journal. Plus I'm nearing completion of a chapter for a book. Whereas a year ago I was feeling pretty dispirited about work, I feel like things have tipped in the balance of "I've got a lot of big and exciting things happening." I'm also feeling like I have more work life balance than in years. I've settled into a good pattern of doing yoga 3X per week, some sort of social activity at least 1X during the week, and a big hike on the weekend with a Meetup group. I'm training as a reserve for a team-based, 100km charity walk later in the year...and am "auditioning" for a team on a 55km hike this weekend...eek. Training for that is reconnecting me to one of my pet interests - technical gear! I splurged on some new trail running shoes on the weekend and some compression leggings are in the mail. I'm also the team leader for a workplace stepping challenge and plan to get into the habit of doing a morning run at least a couple of times a week...around the Opera House no less ;-).

Coffee guy is a bit too hot and cold these days. Some days he engages, others he seems to ignore. He's busy, I'll give him that but whatever. I've decided I'll ignore him for a bit.

Smitten Meetup guy sent me a poem which I elected to ignore Actually it occurs to me that Meetup could potentially be a great aid for a stalker because you can see when people sign up to things.

Other Meetup guy, well that one is interesting. Since going out a week ago, we've exchanged emails almost daily and he's invited me to various things that he's going to. I'm not really sure what to do. On my side, I'm not interested in anything more than friendship and I have no idea what he's thinking at this point. I definitely don't want to lead him on...but don't know if/when/how to broach the topic. While I'm not discounting an R on age alone, I estimate that he's is around 55 yo, so I'm having some difficulty figuring out just which bucket this fits into. I mean, I can hang out with whomever I want, obviously, but it's.....unconventional. Actually, OD, he reminds me a bit of you. Do you have any insights to offer here?

[gan]

Well no sooner did I write the post above...and the other Meetup guy sends me an email "hoping we can catch up and get to know each other better. If you feel similarly..." So I think the moment has arrived to broach the topic...

Bah...it's a brave new world out there.

[Mozza]

I don't know if it appears obvious to you, but reading your message from June 22, it seems quite clear that you put yourself and others in complicated situation with the hope of avoiding "awkwardness".

Tell Smitten Meetup Guy upfront that you are not interested. It will be awkward for one email and then everything will be clear for all involved. Right now, he's spending all that time thinking about you and composing poems, all in vain. His energy would be much better invested into someone else. Be kind to him and tell him you're not interested.

Engage Coffee Guy as much as you want, without having expectations of him replying a certain amount. If he's not responsive enough for you, drop him, but don't send complex silent signals with the hope of getting him to react. That's a covert contract and it leads to hell.

I'm glad to see that Other Meetup Guy has had the balls to be more direct because it will clear things up. It's now your responsibility to reply clearly to him and tell him that while you enjoy his company, you should be clear that you're not really looking for anything more with him. Like Smitten Meetup Guy, he will then be able to focus his attention where he might get what he wants.

Bonus: you'll be clear too and free to think about other things than people in whom you're not interested.

This might all seem very difficult to you, but I will suggest that you use the three gentlemen as testing grounds and just go ahead and be direct with them. See what happens. DBing is a learning experience and this sounds like a great opportunity.

I don't know your history all that much, so I'm not sure how much this avoidance has played a role in your life. I can tell you that it did mightily in mine up until separation. Then therapy came, with several readings and they all said the same thing: "Stop trying to be nice and be honest." I was so nice to a girl, years ago, that I got into a serious relationship with her (we even moved in) because I didn't have the guts to tell her I didn't want to spend my life with her. When I broke up with her, she was devastated, much more than if I had been honest with her at the beginning. We convince ourselves that we are being nice by not telling the truth, by avoiding to be direct and honest, but the fact is that we're hurtful to people.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[gan]

Thanks, Mozza, for dropping by and offering these thoughts. I've pondered this quite a bit today and here's what I've concluded: I'm not an avoider but I don't like (fear) making mistakes. I don't want to infer a guy is interested until I am sure that is what is going on. And at the moment I'm not feeling very confident in my ability to judge that (if you recall, a married guy I sat next to on a plane a couple of months ago made reference to getting a hotel...and I was genuinely baffled as to whether he was propositioning me or not). I also guess I don't have a good sense for how far to let things go before announcing "not interested". Actually I am pretty direct and honest most of the time...that was probably a bigger factor in my M.

Coffee Guy: well that's just a bit of infatuation on my behalf and I don't think he's interested. I'm not being rude or anything, just decided I should try not to indulge myself. Ignore wasn't the right word. Of the 3, I feel the most attraction and tension here...though I think it is all in my head.

Smitten Meetup guy: we interacted very little on the hike and a few days later he sends me a message along the lines of "not meaning to be disrespectful...he doesn't really believe in love...but for some reason my face was upon his thoughts". OK - I get it. That's pursuit. Does that warrant a direct "thanks, I'm not interested" response? That seems a bit harsh having had such basic exchange. I mean I can't speak for all womankind, but I don't know any girls who are gonna want to go there. I ended up responding "Thanks, I'm flattered. Hope you're settling well" (he just moved here). Was that a case of me not being direct enough or a guy not getting that that means not interested? After that he sent me a poem (not written by him)...and that's when I didn't respond.

Other Meetup guy: we'd both been on a few of the same hikes and I met up with him separately one time. He invited me to a few other things after that (so he obviously didn't not like me) but I was genuinely busy so said no. I didn't want to make the mistake of inferring he wanted something more than he really did. Mostly I think this relates to the age difference. He could have responded...h3ll no, you're 20 years younger, I'm not that kind of guy and then it would be really awkward for both of us (that's probably me projecting my insecurities around the age difference onto him). I did reply - basically said I was only looking for friendship, wasn't really sure what he was wanting and then mentioned where I was at in my sitch. I left it in his court by saying if he is looking to have an occasional catch up as friends then I can do that, but if he's looking for more than that then it would be unfair of me to say yes to catching up. I finished by saying I hope he understands where I am coming from. Turns out he does....he's an LBS (5 years) and he's in no hurry for a relationship beyond friends (though the way that was phrased, he didn't rule out that that was what he wanted). We'll probably meet up next week. You were right, Mozza, I did feel relieved at having this out in the open.

... ... ... ...

I'm not too sure if I should be elaborating on the above. This is a pro-marriage site and that was something I really valued when I first came here. FWIW I still remain open to reconciliation and I still don't consider myself "in the dating scene." But I have been finding it interesting engaging more with all the people around me, including men (who I actually find it easier to get along with....ISTJ). Makes me realise how much marriage kinda pulled me out of that - 50% of the population was sort of off limits. So yeah...just kind of feeling my way through each day and if it turns into something then so be it. Keeping it real these days.

[Mozza]

Hey gan, I'm glad if you helped you think about your sitch and yourself. As for talking about dating on these forums, I chose to share in general, though not in details, because I feel it's part of the process and it has a certain impact on me and my sitch.

[Zues126]

Gan, Mozza...you'd be proud of me! I mentioned on my thread my I was offended by something my dad had said the other day at lunch about how stupid it was to have a life goal of "growing old with someone". Then he did something else that was meant to be considerate (he referred me to his financial adviser and told me his fa was expecting a call/email to ensure I had his contact info) but I'm so overwhelmed I was resentful he was putting more things to do on my plate.

Normally I would just bury it and move on. Instead I took the advice of my DB coach and emailed him how I felt. I tried to be tactful and acknowledge his positive intent and that I didn't feel he did anything wrong, while still voicing how it impacted me and where I was.

The result? We had a great conversation today and he agreed being direct is a good way to go.

Normally I don't copy/paste exact emails, but I think my Dad is safe so here it is. I'm feeling good. Hooray us for being direct!


Dad,

I hope you had a nice father's day as well.

One thing I have learned is I have a hard time with conflict. That is why I have relatively few close friends, and why when the going gets rough I tend to withdraw into my own world. This is something I'm working on, and DB Coach encouraged me to share my feelings with you.

The other day at lunch I found myself getting very upset. I didn't understand why at the time because it happened rather quickly. Looking back I was able to figure it out. When you were talking about the absurdity of a life goal of growing old with someone it pained me deeply. That happened to be a life goal of mine, and one that has been subject to a loss I'm not only still grieving, but one that is so expansive I am still stunned by the blow it has been to me. I am fully aware this misses the primary points of the story you were trying to tell and I know you wouldn't deliberately cause me to suffer, I just wasn't able to see past that because I am still very sensitive to this topic.

As for financial advisor, I will tell you that I am feeling beyond overwhelmed. My mediation is schedule for next Thursday and I am being bombarded with requests for documentation for the courts, on top of the parenting, job, and responsibilities that are crushing down on me. I was upset when you threw this on my plate and asked me to email him, but I realize you have only the best intentions and aren't aware of how I'm feeling. I can see this was a generous thing to do in ordinary situations as I am sure I'll benefit from meeting him at some point.

When I write this I could see how it could sound absurd to be disturbed by a comment about a life goal, or to feel resentment at having one 10 minute task put on my plate. I would agree if I wasn't in the spot I'm in. I feel very close to the breaking point and am reacting to pretty much emergencies only at this time. And even my definition of emergency has loosened up as fairly important things are starting to slide through the cracks.

I don't expect you to walk on eggshells around me. I am learning that I can handle a little turbulence now and then, and that is a small price to pay for the joy of having you in my life. The fact is if I didn't care as much as I do about you I wouldn't have made it a priority to share this. Frankly I still don't understand what good will come of it, but DB Coach insists this is what mature people do- "represent themselves". If it sounds like I'm speaking in psychobabble I probably am, I don't know what to do anymore so I'm basically trying to surround myself with people I trust and do what I'm told.

Thanks for being one of those people Dad. I love you and will talk to you soon.

[Mozza]

I AM proud of you! I think this was an awesome -mail. In not surprised so much good came out of it. Congratulations and may this example lead the way!

[Vanilla]

Gan

You never cease to amaze me.

V

[gan]

Why so, V?

Zues - I'll get back to you. There's something I want to unpack from your post above. But it's time for me to get some sleep.

[Vanilla]

Gan

Because of your sense of adventure and chutzpah.

Willing to have a 'go'

V