Looking inside

[mleigh4]

It's Friday and enjoy my weekend I will do! Job, H is extremely passive aggressive. It's why I never trust his moods or "niceness" I didn't know what passive aggressive was, it was H's own father who told me H grew up in a very passive aggressive environment. He told me to read up on it and it fits H to a T.

Sunday is a perfect example. He was so friendly to my face, then I find that note. Last night, Mr chatty, then doesn't say bye. It is actually a very cruel trait, full of mind games.

[job]

Yes, the passive aggressiveness can be very cruel and actually makes you think you are the one that's nuts. My xh was a prime example of the PA behavior. They can't confront you when they are angry or to tell you that they don't want to do something, but they do the roundabout w/the behavior. It is a learned behavior and one that can be overcome w/the proper therapy.

It's not you...it's him.

[asitis]

He may not know that you know the whole interaction w/ friend, he may just be looking for some way to engage w/ you over son, he may be trying to provoke a reaction, he may have hopes w/ friend and testing the waters to see if you have any concerns that would interfere w/ getting away w/ pursuing her if she shows interest. I'm sure I can think of other alternatives if I give it a few more minutes. See how silly it is to try to analyze those little exchanges? Esp. w/ an MLC S?

And we'd worry about you if you didn't have some huge doubts about hanging in there w/ H. That's all included in the package your H bought for you all when he succumbed to a MLC. It's a healthy place to be in your sitch, in my view.

[mleigh4]

Thank you Job, for those last words. For so long, I thought I was an overreacting and angry person. Until I read up on PA and learned that they push buttons just to get that angry reaction to make you feel bad about yourself. To make you express the anger they can't. That is what it is all about, which I am sure you know from your XH. I do hope my H gets help for it, not for me, for himself and whoever his next relationship is with. Might be me, might not.

My good friend recently commented that she remembers a night long ago when she and her husband had a party, and the guys were all involved in this heated conversation. All in good fun, but All were yelling out their opinions and debates. And she noticed my H, just sitting there quietly watching the interaction. That is my H, emotionless and scared to give his opinion. Go with the flow, but against his will and you will pay. Job, it's awful to live with. Was your H emotionless too? Just curious. I would beg my H to fight back with me, get mad, tell me what he thought, and I would get silence. How about you?

Asitis, you are right. Who knows what goes on in my H's head. It would be a waste of time to try to figure it out. I am over it. I know I can't control my friends interaction with H. But I expressed my boundaries, it's all I can do. We are talking about my S's best friends mom, so I won't mess that up, but I do have a choice who I am friends with. We will see how that goes.

S goes with H tomorrow for the night, so I am enjoying my time with him tonight. Tomorrow, I have plans to go over my good friends house to cook and drink wine, our favorite hobbies! Lol. She always boosts me up, so I am looking forward to it after this emotionally draining week.

[mleigh4]

Had a good weekend. Interaction with H was good at pickup on Saturday, but it is getting increasingly difficult to deal with him.

H came by on Saturday to pick up S. He ended up hanging out for a good hour before he left. We chatted, him mostly about work. Lots of eye contact, I was trying to feel for any vibe about whatever rumor he was told. I didn't sense anything, possible this may have passed? H got up at one point and went in the backyard to walk around, checking out my work. He called dog to get ready to go. I let him know then that the reason I don't like him taking her is because she helps me to feel safe when I am home alone. H said he didn't have to take her if I really didn't want him too. However, they were going swimming, and dog being a lab loves swimming. So I decided to not be selfish, I could survive one night.

I went to my friends house for dinner and had possibly 1 glass of wine too much! But had a really good time with her and her boyfriend.

So today, rested and waited for S to come home. Agreed drop off time is 2. H let me know at about 1 that they would be coming shortly. At 2, H TM that S is taking his sweet time, he is letting him go at his own pace, will leave soon. (This is becoming an ongoing issue with H, no time schedule, just wings pick up and drop off as he feels.) I replied that maybe I am too concerned with getting S to H on time, that I will start doing the same.

And the spew starts. He replied I never seem too concerned. I asked him, are you saying we didn't agree on 2 o'clock drop off on Sundays? H replied, he gave S plenty of time to get ready, he was the one not ready on time, just letting him do it his way like I always do. H told me that S said it's better to be later so he doesn't have to wait as long for his buddy to show up (scheduled buddy over at 3) Then he added that he is tired of having so many rules that I don't have.

I replied back it's a custody agreement that we agreed on. That it is important that we be on the same page because we have many years left to go. I added that if it isn't working for him, to just talk to me about it. I ended with saying no anger here, just seems to be an issue we need to work out.

I got a long long reply that we should figure out a time to talk about some different things we would like and some things we can do to be on the same page about what is best for S. He doesn't think a half hour of leeway for drop off is unreasonable. He hopes we can agree on some sort of structure to raise S so he doesn't end up spoiled and feeling entitled to things. He says he has been reading up on it because he sees signs of it in S and doesn't want him ending up to be like the young guys he works with who want everything without working for it.

Ok, so does anyone else see the humor and irony here? Just within this one hour of text exchange H went from letting S do as he pleases, H feeling he can make his own self-serving schedule to wanting structure for S and not wanting him to be spoiled. With his added in passive aggressive pot shots. I hear H basically not wanting S to be like him! Lol.

So, I stopped there, so done with him for the day. I replied, "and I want the same. Have a good day H"

Shouldn't need to deal with him until Thursday.

[mleigh4]

I want to add, I am not a tyrant when it comes to our shared custody of S. I agree time leeway is ok, if for a reason like traffic, someone over, or even hey, we want to grab some frozen yogurt real quick. But I am not ok with the reason of S isn't getting ready on time.

I am considering more and more of having something legal drawn up, with dates and times.....I have seen them and it sounds horrible, but I am not sure what else to do other than just dealing with it. Although, something in writing may make no difference to H, he is in his own world.

I suppose I could do all the pick ups and drop offs. Then I wouldn't have to worry about it. So sick of dealing with a teenager H.

[asitis]

Rather than having something legal drawn up, approach it as negotiating w/ H to come up with a written agreement between the two of you. It may be just getting all the understandings in writing so to limit misunderstanding, or it may be something legal. Negotiated, even w/ an erratic MLC, will be more likely complied with than you coming up with something and then trying to get him to sign on.

If you think you need it, find a mediator to help with the process. They aren't just for D agreements, but help clarify the S arrangements to avoid unnecessary conflicts that are harmful to the possibility of saving the M down the road.

Also remember, that there is no one right way. We often get caught up that the way we do things is the right way, and the way our S does things is wrong. There are often strengths and weaknesses to different approaches. H could be a bit more like you, and you might be a bit more like H on this issue (I don't mean the inconsistency, but more flexible). Just an outsiders perspective. That's why a mediator can help. But even wo/ a mediator, see if you can look at it a bit from the other perspective (in this case less rigid schedule).

Also, ask yourself what exactly bothers you about the way H's behavior around pick up and drop off? Is it that he doesn't do things your way, or is it that you don't feel valued or respected because he doesn't notify you when things are running late, or is it that you don't know how to handle unexpected complications and messiness well. See what I'm getting at? Let's say in the future, your H is going to be a half hour late. Do you get pissed because he is late, or view it as an "oh, thank goodness, I got an extra half hour to get X done and won't have that nagging at me while I'm supposed to be enjoying my son!" And, sometimes it is just learning to adapt to the reality of co-parenting: don't make plans that require your H to hit the time target precisely. Plan ahead knowing that you allow an hour leeway. Have something planned to either get done if he is late or fun to do with your S if he is on time. Be creative.

As you've pointed out, you wonder if a written agreement will change the behavior much. OK, so what can you do so that you don't drive yourself crazy, make yourself unhappy given that recognition, or worsen the R in the long term?

And, I lean toward you're way of thinking about schedules, & my W is 'not as good' on the issue, so I have struggled w/ this and had to learn the hard way how to look at it in these different ways if I want to be happy. Interestingly, as I've done so, W has gotten better. This is often the case, and is in the DBing spirit. Why would you keep nagging or getting into the same conflicts over and over if it isn't working? Change yourself first and see how that changes the dance. Adjust as necessary.

[CaliGuy]

mleigh

Ok ... breathe ... lol.

But I totally get it, and the thing that drove me nuts was what was a level 10 of importance on one day was a level 2 later on during the week, they will spin and get all cranked up the silliest things, but watch ... give this a week and I bet H makes more of an effort to be on time. Remember you are 'Mom' right now, he just threw a little fit on your boundary and tested it .... you held, calm, did not allow him to press a button, things will calm and level out.

I do like the fact you think about it, like the dog issue, but .... again ... H got his way there, and that's ok, this crisis is filled with so many 'pick your battles' moments and I think you were wise there to give in on one day, showing H you are in fact not a tyrant ... it will help later down the road.

Hang in there M, you have it all together and your H has a head full of scrambled eggs going on, be patient.

[job]

mleigh,
Cali is correct in the fact that you are "mom" right now to his "child". You will learn as you travel the path to choose your battles. You may have over loaded his brain w/schedules and then the dog issue this weekend. It's okay. Next week, things may be totally different w/him and he will have digested what you pointed out.

You have your head screwed on right and you do think things through. Your h, on the other hand, has a lot of wires misfiring these days and it's going to take a lot of patience to deal w/him...but you can gently set your boundaries, one by one and things will be better.

Hang in there!

[mleigh4]

Great advise from you guys, thank you.

Asitis, thank you for calling me out enough to look at this differently. I work in escrow, my life revolves around schedules and doing what you say you are going to do. Mistakes are not allowed! I tend to live my personal life the same. I have high expectations, not only of others, but of myself. H is and always has been bad with time management. Everything takes him longer than he thinks it will. Knowing this, it only makes sense for me to lighten up on the schedule. Give an hour leeway, in my head, and I shouldn't be disappointed. I have seen written up custody schedules and prefer for us to be a little more laid back on this. And even better, I can control and change this!

Another thing I thought about was the fact that S doesn't seem to be in a big hurry to leave dad's and get back home, and that is a huge change that I fully want to support. H and S have struggled in their relationship. If things are getting better, time for me to lovingly step back.

Cali and Job, I am so tired of feeling like his mom. It truly is giving me some great practice for my son. I am Learning to not take the bait when he lashes out, and it feels great!

H has become completely obsessed with his job, it runs his life. He works days, nights, weekends. Just the fact he would compare our 8 year old son to his co-workers, it just doesn't make sense to me. I want to tell H, stop worrying! When he is with son, that is his time to just relax and have fun! He is missing so much day to day in his life, S is going to be grown up and gone before he knows it. I want to tell H, I PROMISE, S will not be a slacker, we will not let that happen!

Maybe someday we can have that conversation.