Hi - So, here I am in this club in which I do not want to be - no offense to you all. I have read all the newcomer stuff a LOT.
I will give you my story, some of it seems to follow the MLC script, some features of my story seem to be outliers (but maybe there is someone on here in my situation!).
On 11/1/14 my husband of 14 years dropped his bomb. Loves me, but not in love with me, lonely, wants to get an apartment (!) so that he can have his friends over. He is 47 and I am 39. I asked who else would be coming over to this apartment? Would women? He shrugged and said "yeah." At his bomb drop he asked to cake eat outright! Have not heard of this one on the forum. He said he wanted to go to his apartment during the day (he works from home), be home for the kids after school and at night and then stay at his apartment on Saturday nights and come home before our kids ( 9 and 11) woke up. I was shellshocked. Left the room for a while and then my blood just BOILED. Having no clue this was MLC I unleashed some choice words at him. I told him he was a disgusting, perverted old man who wanted a shag pad. For days we texted each other and I insulted him for days. I was so angry and insulted by the idea that he would play house/look like a great husband while out with women. I told him we should just divorce. He indicated that he was surprised that I would not agree to this plan. That's when it hit me that he was not right in the head. After several days, I cooled off and said we should work on this marriage and not throw it away.
For several months we did. We started scheduling dates, connecting more, etc. And I thought things were better. I took his temperature often and he indicated things were better. I went out of the country to visit family with my kids and we Skyped him daily. He seemed to deteriorate while I was gone. He looked depressed and sad. Upon my return I had a massive tooth infection (it was quite serious) and I had thrown out my back as one of my family members has a child with a rare genetic disorder and on our trip I was lifting him a lot. Upon my return my husband seemed distant and aloof. I was jetlagged, fighting my infection and trying to walk straight. He didn't seem to care.
Near the end of March 2015, a few times he muttered that he'd been "bait and switched," and that it was time to get that apartment. I ignored it to avoid a fight. Things were hectic upon my return, with the infection, my back, returning to work, etc. I don't think that was a "bait and switch." But he muttered the need to get his apartment comment again. Then one day I could not reach him via his cell phone (he has a pay as you go plan) and I got mad. I think it was the passive aggressive comment he made that surfaced to my mind. He tried to explain why his phone was off but my mind ran away from me between his desires to cake eat and the phone being off all day. Plus I was still grossed out by his requests. I also started to feel like I was pretzeling myself and he was doing very little to work on things. Probably because he had felt neglected.
We had a fight about it. Then he bombed me again on 3/31. This time he told me he was done with me romantically. He needed time and space. He would still be a father to the kids but we were over. He still lives in the house. Soon thereafter, with shark eyes (seriously) he told me he would sleep with women on Saturdays and I could sleep with men on Fridays. GROSS!!! When I asked if that would bother him, me sleeping with men, he said " a little." He said he would be looking for a woman to look at him "meaningfully." VERY illogical thinking followed. I asked him why any respectable women would agree to being seen Saturday nights and on weekdays? What happens when her birthday is on a Friday? I asked him if he would introduce the kids to her. He said no. I asked, then how meaningful is this relationship? Crickets chirped. He could not follow the logic. But he did not want to divorce because our kids are too young?
After this second bomb drop I realized this was MLC and he replayed BIG TIME and was in a MASSIVE fog. He was out all the time. He would leave w/out saying where he was going, was secretive, hid his phone, typical MLC script. If we were driving somewhere he always forgot where we were going, didn't remember what day it was, forgot that he said MAJOR things. SO CONFUSED!!! He did not seem to remember telling me I could sleep with men on Friday and he would sleep with women on Saturdays. TOTAL FOG.
After talking to a GREAT DB coach, Leni, I read Love Languages, started doing my 180's and realized my own part in this. My mother died about a year and a half ago and 3 years ago a family member's son was diagnosed with a rare disorder and I fell into a depression. Two major traumas back-to-back. Maybe I went through an MLC of my own? Not sure. Last year in my own mind I contemplated getting my own apartment and divorcing?? At that same time husband asked for third kid? I think he was already in replay and looking for fixes as we knew we were done with kids. I told him I was leaning the other way, toward divorce. Was that my BD on him?!? He told me we should give it a try 'til December. Sadly, I don't really think it registered as I was in a deep depression of my own. Nothing really changed and I was in quite a world of my own. I think I kept to myself as much as I could.
Then, this past Fall 2015, I snapped out of it. It hit me one day that this situation with my family member's child was not going to change and my sleeplessness, worry, etc. did not change a thing. But when I "woke up" I realized my husband had drifted. He was taking walks by himself and seemed very off in hindsight. Quite emotionless, quiet. Seemed obsessed with death and aging. I realize now for years he was angry and resentment was building up before this. He had been irritable. In fact he even told me post bomb drop that he had a lot of resentment toward me.
I think I drifted and he felt unappreciated. I had stopped caring for our relationship while in my depression. Husband has made comments that he received either "no treatment from me or really bad treatment." This may be true as I was in some kind of fog myself. Either just depression or MLC depression.
My DB coach says to treat him like a house guest and work on rebuilding our friendship.
His love language is acts of service so I have begun those again. Sadly, in my depression I forgot how happy it used to make me to do kind things for him. After consistently doing these things he started, slowly to reciprocate. Twice now he has fed me a smoothie off a spoon?!? He made me tea when he made it for himself. This week he actually texted me at work to see how my day was going. Sometimes he has talked about our future, sometimes he has said that he will get his apartment. I have told him that if he starts EA, PA that out of respect he should tell me he has BEFORE IT STARTS. He agreed he would but I have learned the line "if his lips are moving he is lying."
He pretty much stays in the room downstairs (moved out after 2nd BD - 3/31/15). He stays to himself. Sometimes he makes eye contact. Mostly he talks to the kids and not me, too much. There have been flashes where he resurfaces. Sometimes he has shown me a text he is writing to his brother. Sometimes he seems like his old self. Sometimes confused and sometimes a third person I do not know.
He has started to say where he is going and when he is coming back. He was distant from the kids the last many months but in June he came back to them. Oddly, he was distant with the dog too; didn't seem to notice him and then he came back to the dog first. Then, to the kids. There have been some touch-n-goes. He has hugged me twice and sometimes I catch him giving me a sad, very guilty look.
My questions are: Given that he wants space and time yet feels like I bait and switched him after my return from trip abroad/have neglected him, how do I balance this? Right now I validate when I can, my 180's seem to surprise him and I treat him as a house guest.
I have started making the home more appealing (he had said there was nothing to come home to. I play music (he has come in and done so twice, too!), light candles and bake (he has said it smells good.)
I feel like I already have a life. And even when I was depressed, I played tennis, worked, walked the dog, etc. I think he shouldered the brunt of my depression, unfortunately.
Last thing: no shocker - he has a pretty messy childhood. His father bailed before my husband as born (his parents alreay had an infant), his mother brought in men who were physically abusive to my husband, she slept around and they knew it. His father seems to have been in MLC for a LONG time. Sadly, now that I am older and wiser- he was cake eating with his 2nd wife when I met him. He would sleep at home a few nights and then "go to work" gambling at a casino 3-4 nights. People saw him with other women. Very destructive family life.
I look forward to hearing some thoughts on all of this.
Me: 39 Husband: 46 BD #1: 11/1/2015 Husband stays and we work on it BD #2: 3/31/2015 Husband stays but moves to downstairs room and is in full MLC
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Yesterday I hit my husband with a truth dart. In the evening he came to talk about the truth dart. He found it insulting. I tried to diffuse the situation-told him my comment was about needing to set a boundary for me, not so much about him. I validated saying I was sorry he felt that way. Then he tried to talk about it some more. He actually sat next to me! I feel like I blew it a bit because I got a bit anxious in our conversation. He even said so. One of my 180's is to remain more calm. Ended the conversation by saying I was in full agreement on our solution-which I was. There was no yelling but I think my eyes showed some of my disappointment in him. He has ignored me completely since the conversation. I have acted "as if" whenever he actually comes out of his man cave.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
I would like to hear if anyone has any experience being asked for a cake eating situation openly at bomb drop? Or have any of the veterans heard of such a scenario?
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
BD on 11/1/14. Loves me/not in love with me, lonely, wants an apartment where he can have his friends over and maybe some women. But he still wants to sleep at home and return early Sunday-openly asked to cake eat.
I convince him to work on it, he agrees. I think things are getting better, he agrees. But as things get busy with work/life he says I bait and switched him and mutters "time to get that apartment". BD # 2 on 3/31/15. He says he is done with me romantically, wasn't feeling it, withdraws to downstairs bedroom and hits replay/crazy fog.
He has said he wants time and space but if he also feels neglected how do I balance this? -------------------- Me:39 Husband: 46 2 kids 9 & 11, married almost 15 yrs BD 11/1/14 We work on things BD#2 3/31/15 Husband moved to downstairs bedroom and lives at home
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
You can't balance it. He wants space & time but wants you to attend to his wants so that he doesn't feel neglected. He wants to have casual sex or affairs and have you on the side, all the while living at home and you taking care of him. Starting to see a theme here? See the conflict in him and his thinking?
Further, I don't see any signs that he wants to work on your M right now (no surprise given MLC), but he does want you to do a lot of work to allow him to do and have what he wants.
Will he respect you if you do what he wants, even if that were possible? Do you see the eggshell walking you will be doing? Is that anyway to live?
So, now focus on you. Do not make any changes for him. He is not reciprocating. That doesn't mean you don't have behaviors that you might want to change, but they need to be because you aren't happy with yourself and want a better you.
Boundaries to preserve your sanity, self-respect, and his respect. If he blasts you for not providing cake, say that when he is willing to commit to working on the M, then you will be more than happy to put in the hard work that is necessary, that you do not feel comfortable doing X while he is doing Y, etc. He doesn't have to agree with you, but he does have to respect your decision and abide by it. Expect that there will be kicking and screaming. If it is MLC, then that's what you are agreeing to abide with if you hang in there. That's why the boundaries are so necessary.
You can also tell him that you need some time and space as well to figure out all your feelings and what you want and need for yourself and any R.
If you still feel conflicted by his needs space & feelings of neglect, look at the giving him space as the opposite of neglect. You are respecting his choices and wishes. That will take a lot of courage and strength to do. See how it is not neglect, but an act to give him his main need right now. You could be pursuing, begging, crowding, etc. Most of us have done this. Most of us recognize the will power and discipline it has taken to stop doing these things. That is not neglecting him.
In the meantime, what are your goals for yourself? What are your GAL ideas? What are the things you've wanted to do, but have had to put on the shelf because of your M? What are the things you've always wanted to do, but put off? If your H died or left you tomorrow, what would make you a happy, healthy person in a year, two, five? And finding new love is out of your control, so it isn't a good answer. Being a happy person outside of your R with your H is the best thing you can do to prepare for the real possibility that you can't save your M and at the same time make yourself the person he finds attractive enough to be drawn back to. In other words, it is a no-brainer course of action to focus on.
Keep posting.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
I had a few sessions with a DB coach and she has said to treat him like a house guest. We live together and are still raising kids together.
I have some follow up questions and then I will answer your questions.
1. After talking to my DB coach and reading Love Languages I realized my husband's love language is acts of service. When I have done nice/house guest like things for him he has every so often done nice things for me. So, at times there has been reciprocity. Twice he has spoon fed me a smoothie he has made (kind of weird given the situation), brought me a drink up to my bedroom, etc. Once, as we were driving, mid -song he even changed the CD track from one song to a romantic song that basically said "stay with me 'til I die, let's just breathe, hold me 'til I die." Are these touch - n - goes or is he keeping me on the sidelines? Or is it just crazy MLC behavior?
2. He sometimes tells me where he is going/when he will be back but oftentimes he is still secretive. His going out on the weekends has slowed drastically. One Saturday I preempted him by saying, in the morning, you should go out tonight! He looked shocked and his going out slowed down. On a recent Saturday when he texted me he was going out, I did my 180 and cheerily said "have fun!" He came home significantly earlier that night. Is this how I should handle these situations?
As for what I am doing for myself. I just switched from working part-time out of the home to full -time in my office. I think this is good for me because it keeps me out of the house and busier. (He works out of the house, too, so the distance is good. He comes and goes a lot.) I play tennis but that will be minimized as I work full-time now. A lot of my activities were during the day (walking with friends, walking my dog, playing tennis) but now they are harder now that I am full-time. Plus, I want to see my kids now that I am gone all day. On the weekends I plan to go for runs with the dog. I also plan on taking a few hours on either Sat. or Sun. and just taking some me time.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Are these touch - n - goes or is he keeping me on the sidelines? Or is it just crazy MLC behavior?
It is very hard to judge what a very few small actions mean. Sit back patiently and observe and listen and all will be revealed to you in good time. Sometimes the best advice is to DO nothing! Because actively doing nothing is really doing something.......
