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roist #2588770 07/16/15 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: roiste
I am also reading 5LL and it supports what I thought that my w seems to have increased her acts of service towards me. If that is her ll does that mean she will be most receptive to acts of service than the other 4ll?


Depends. smile if the effort is genuine and something that she wants / needs done & she is not pi$$ed at you, then yes...she will be more receptive to it than the others.

now with that said, a nice thoughtful gift out of the blue (WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED) can be very appreciated. my wife loves flowers. picking up a nice batch of odd colored roses when you stop to pick up a gallon of milk is very nice idea. Be careful though, gifts can be construed as 'buying forgiveness' so No Strings and No Pissed are absolutes.

I know I mentioned this one pretty early on here at DB, I ordered my wife a daily / weekly planner from national geographic out of the blue. her grandma used to order a stack of them for the aunts and uncles and older grandchildren every year. she had passed away and the calendar's didn't come last 2 XMAS's. When wife got it in early January, she beamed for a week and we now look at the weekly picture every Monday together.

Now depending on your wife's LL depends on the results of your actions. if it is words...you can be really creative there with a note hidden with her morning coffee.

I think the key here is heartfelt, gifts/acts/words of love. finish the book. maybe she would be willing to read it with you and do the quizzes. we had fun with it (it was going on 4 years ago, but I digress).


M - 40's
W - 30's
Two Sons
Living together
Zephyr #2589848 07/20/15 03:33 PM
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My W is not pi££ed with me per say. My reading of the situation is she us not happy with most parts of her life and being her H unconsciously or consciously I am viewed as the main source of that unhappiness. That is mind reading of course .....

I will experiment with the LLs. And I will finish the book, hopefully this week. I can't see me asking her to do quizes with me, at least not at this stage. Maybe someday if she initiates R talk and it is positive. I understand your logic and agree unexpected gifts with no expectations is great, but in my situation it is pursuit even if I buy something not wanting anything in return. I look forward to the day I can express my love openly and in all 5LL.

After that I am going to reread mars/Venus as part of it was recommended elsewhere on these forums.

Sometimes I feel that no matter what I do it won't make a difference to howvW feels. At times like that I feel that I should just say what I think, touch when u want to touch and at least act like we are married. Even if that pushes her away at least I would be true to myself. BUT here we are advised to do what works and not what we think..

Living together my W may never have the chance to gain another perspective. Although not what I want I feel maybe it will take a separation to save us. But if possible I would like to avoid that for kids sake.

I am trying to change the dynamics n our R. I will keep trying thing to improve R. But mostly I am focusing on figuring out what I need to be truley happy and what improvements I can make of myself. When I am truley happy that I am the best that I can be and who I want to be, I will re-evaluate things. I am nit strong enough to staying in a loveless marriage. I want to love and be lived. I am convinced that can be with my W, so I stick to the plan.

I am 100% sure that we can be happy and have a fulfilling R together. I am also sure that I can be happy without my W. I am sure i could meet someone else and start a new R with lots more wisdom and learning, but for the moment that does not intetest me. I am not sure if I will have the strength to give it the time necessary for us to work out. But the easy option of giving up does not feel right to me.

Today I am tired. I am always tired. I am tired being tired.

Last edited by roiste; 07/20/15 03:39 PM.

R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2589882 07/20/15 05:13 PM
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I am standing right next to you sir. This morning in was very wary if the doubt of my future. It really does come and go...but it is not a constant anymore.

Your approach is right on and you still have more courage and strength than many I see in the real world who are walking away becsuse it is too hard to stand and look at themselves and make those changes that need to be made.

So with that said...how do we determine what will make us happy. That is the ultimate question. How are you trying to figure THAT out Right now?


M - 40's
W - 30's
Two Sons
Living together
Zephyr #2590148 07/21/15 08:18 AM
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Looking around it is disheartening to see so many couples unhappy or splitting. For better or worse is what we sign up for. The way I look at it if we get through this we can only be better.

Thank you again for your words of support. I was tired yesterday and got thinking of what lies ahead. I am not afraid of her leaving and could live with having the boys every second week. What got to me was that I am fairly sure we will be still together at the end of the year and that means going through our 9th wedding anniversary, our 20th year together and Christmas. I know I can get through them but to do that again after last year is daunting and I think mostly because a year later and still in same position....... although I am improving.

Anyway a lot can happen between now and then.

To answer the question about how to be happy I am asking myself what I want today/this week for my happiness and I try to do whatever I answer. My main problem is being tired which really zaps pleasure out of stuff. I don't sleep well, not due to anxiety but more so because I have to fight my natural urge to be in contact with my w in bed and hence am not as comfortable.

Anyway I know I have the gift of time and as long as I can support it I have the time to improve much more. Looks like we will be going home for s wedding inoctober just the two of us. She said if I wanted to go she was going. There are many instances like that that she could easily back out of, insist on bringing boys, or show reluctance. But she doesn't.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2590283 07/21/15 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: roiste

Anyway a lot can happen between now and then.


Absolutely true.

As long as you keep going with setting some goals and working towards them, looking inside at those things you have need to improve and consistently striving for those changes you are destined to be a happier man!!!

I hope that you can be patient with your wife and continue to give her space and show her that your love can withstand this test. Patience is not a strong suit for a fixer, I know, so learning patience is just one of those mandatory 180's for DB'rs like learning how to bite tounge, etc.

Hope you sleep better tonight.


M - 40's
W - 30's
Two Sons
Living together
Zephyr #2590478 07/22/15 11:15 AM
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Two months ago we seemed slightly better. There was more texting and more physical contact. I understand the logic of initiating physical contact can be viewed as pursuing by W. And if she wants out that could push her.

I am contemplating reinitiating low key non sexual type physical contact. Part of me wants to wait for W to initiate. That may well be the DB way. Eight months ago when u really started trying to save marriage I reintroduced thus as it was lacking in our R. So regardless of how I felt or other factors there was this contact. Although rarely initiated by W it was never refused and readily accepted. I'd appreciate yer wisdom and thoughts on this. I guess I see thus as putting positive energy in without expecting a return.

I am just trying to figure out what I was doing in April that I not doing now. The texting I liked our exchanges but as we talk each evening I prefer to leave her initiate that mostly.

Being tired I may have been less upbeat recently so I am focusing on that. My short term priorities are fun with boys, better dad, finish some more projects around house, figure out a happiness plan and to improve sleep.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2590516 07/22/15 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: roiste
Two months ago we seemed slightly better. There was more texting and more physical contact. I understand the logic of initiating physical contact can be viewed as pursuing by W. And if she wants out that could push her.

This is a big deal in your approach. You must be able to give her space when she needs it. That includes not initiating physical touch or words or acts. Use your best judgement here and bebhonest with yourself about how things bare going. Youbknow when your wife needs space.

I am contemplating reinitiating low key non sexual type physical contact. Part of me wants to wait for W to initiate. That may well be the DB way. Eight months ago when u really started trying to save marriage I reintroduced thus as it was lacking in our R. So regardless of how I felt or other factors there was this contact. Although rarely initiated by W it was never refused and readily accepted. I'd appreciate yer wisdom and thoughts on this. I guess I see thus as putting positive energy in without expecting a return.

I know precisely what you are saying Herr. There are no gimmicks as you know. You bread on other boards about certain types of touches improving her willingness and the like. That is really just crap. Here is my opinion: The biggest issue I see with my marriage and, from what I can tell, yours is resentment for all the years of her needs not being met. I remember feeling how all I felt like was an ATM machine or a butler in my own home and feeling anger growing whenever I was asked to do anything more for wife than I already was doing and getting no appreciation in return. Now I take myself and put myself in her shoes. How she must have felt after years of her needs not being met snd me 'asking/initiating' for physical intimacy...how angry or used she must have felt. How easily an aversion she could have developed to me even coming near to her. It is this that must be overcome and that can only happen with trust and with her believing that you want more from her then just physical intimacy. To her core she must believe this and you must be genuine in your approach to show her...across the board that this is how you truly feel...that you want all of your wife not just physical touch. Does that make sense?


This will be hard to figure bout what her needs really are (in addition to figuring out how to provide them and work on yourself and give her space and ....well you get it)

it will tske time, but i know you are willing to go that distance for her and for YOU! Keep going Roiste!

Last edited by Zephyr; 07/22/15 02:14 PM.

M - 40's
W - 30's
Two Sons
Living together
Zephyr #2590528 07/22/15 02:47 PM
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Thanks Z I hear you. I'll think on the physical contact, but I wasn't on about anything sexual. And I won't be doing it for any return. Plus and this could be wishful thinking but I have the impression she wants me to touch. This is based on how she positions herself. I'll ease into thus and will judge it.

You are surely right about years of unmet needs. So that will take time to overcome.


I want her as a friend. I want her as an advisor. I want her as someone who confides in me and I can confide in. I want to do stuff with her. I want to make her happy. I want to rear our boys together. I want to meet her emotional needs. And yes I want her physically. So I want everything and nit just physical. Sex although important, I value many other things more now.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2590534 07/22/15 02:56 PM
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^^^^^ don't tell her, just show her all of these things!!! Talk is cheap and minimizes your actions. She will reject the notion that you are changing at first....and challenge you as she starts to maybe buy in.


M - 40's
W - 30's
Two Sons
Living together
Zephyr #2590757 07/23/15 08:28 AM
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I snooped again. Yesterday she replied to a question of how she was by: as I told you the other day my housesharing is following its path. This was followed by an unhappy Smiley.

I am not overly affected by such stuff, partly because I already know she us unhappy and partly because I follow the rule of not believing everything.

But I am affected by the situation in general. Her side and mine.

Regarding my W, apart from complaining to friend she does nothing to improve/change things. She has not dropped a verbal bomb and nine months ago I pushed her on and off to tell me what she was thinking. She is to get back to me. I backed off, gave her time. In the meantime I found this place and follow the no R talk rule. Although money is tight and limits our options she could drop the bomb, she could move into spare room, she could go to her parents.

On my side I accept and am trying to resolve my part in getting us here. But I have let us drift and stay in a sex starved marriage. I have now seemingly accepted our roommate status. I have not but it must appear that way. This seems to me to be more of the same behaviour

I came across DR and then this site after viewing Michelle's WAS video. It described everything perfectly.

I am tempted to have a R talk with W. Not to convince her to stay or express my feelings. But just to do something different. To take charge of the situation rather than watch it. I imagine I would state something about her nit being happy with me and state that if she is that unhappy she should not sstay with me. I would state that this is not what I want but I am not happy being roommates and I want her (& me) to be happy.

I need to figure out my real motivation before doing this. I know I am not happy being roommates and that cannot continue indefinitely. I know I prefer that W is happy but prefer that be with me. Maybe I hope that me taking some control and her seeing the end, may cause some reflection and maybe reconsider us. If that is the case I know it is a dangerous tactic that could havedevastating affect on boys lives.

I appreciate your thoughts on this. I am going to think about thus firva long time before if ever I do it. We are going to my brothers on holidays in a few weeks and a month later is my sons birthday. I imagine I can and should wait until then. I also have no financially viable backup plan so this is not to be taken lightly.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
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