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#2581064 06/23/15 11:39 AM
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Hello Everyone! It has been some time since I have been regularly posted here. Me I am 40 W is 38, S is 13 and has Asbergers Syndrome and I have a D9. We have been together 18 years.

Previously we were having marital problems that stemmed from my career and the fact she was basically raising the kids on her own. I read the DB/DR books and now am the primary care giver for my family due to the wife's schedule.

S13 was diagnosed with Asbergers about a year ago. W has started drinking more to the point where she is now a self described alcoholic. She started see a counselor and attend AA meetings and has now been doing so for a couple of months.

S13 was using her IPad and came across some messages from OM, when I asked her about it she told me he was a member of the AA group and that they were only friends. W's schedule has now changed so attending the same AA meetings with the OM now is not convenient (used to go from work to AA meetings and then home).

The confusing part is that we are doing more as a family and that things between us have become calm. Money used to be a huge push button issue and we have been able to talk about it without raising our voices. She has also been more affectionate and we are still regularly intimate. She has asked me to do more activities with her and wants me to start working out with her.

Fast forward to Monday she is home and drunk. Focus at that point is to get dinner done, get the house in order and talk with the kids. S13 then decides to snoop and reads some emails between OM and her. He then decides to read them aloud which state, "I miss you and want you in my arms."

Will not allow my kids to get involved with this or anything between me and her so I take the IPad turn it off and tell him I sent them to her.

We then were up early today and I confronted her about this. Totally denied it all. Would not let me look at her email. Eventually told me she was unhappy at home so she started to drink and then started texting him because she has no one else to talk to. Told me she does dumb stuff when she drinks.

Asked her when was the last time she saw OM and told me weeks ago, but she seems to email him when she is loaded. It seems to be more of an emotional affair than physical, but honestly I don't know.

When we first were having issues it was easy to put my effort into being the best dad that I could be in the event that were would go our separate ways. Right now I understand that I still have to do this with the kids, but the white elephant in the room is the OM.

I thought about leaving, but I am a bit concerned with the affect that would have on my S13. Kids who have Asperger's syndrome do not handle change well. I left for a short walk yesterday and he had a major temper tantrum, destroyed his room and I had to calm him down.

Right now there is no talk of stopping communication with OM. We are supposed to be going away this weekend for a family wedding, but right now this is the last thing I want to do.

I have re-read the topics here on affairs and don't know what to do. For now it feels like a punch in the gut. This is the first suspected affair. We left this morning and I gave her a hug. The thought of doing anything else made me sick to my stomach. I just don't know what to do.


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Sorry to see you back here. After going through your last thread, it didn't look like much has changed.

When things started getting better, did you ever see a C together?

I can't stress enough that I've never seen any R here heal unless there was some type of C involved.


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MrBond #2581086 06/23/15 12:42 PM
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We were seeing a C and then never went back after having to cancel an appointment. We are actively involved in therapy for S13.

She is now seeing a C for her alcoholism. I have read Sand's LBH posts regarding the WW. I know right now it seems like there is no hope, but I need to do the following:

1) Keep being the best dad I can be for the kids despite how miserable I feel.

2) Keep telling myself that although I may feel like sh"t I am still a great dad and person. W's A was not because of me and it does no good to either snoop or try to figure out why she cheated.


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Actually I see a lot of hope. But you need to see a C for yourself. How long were both of you going to C before you stopped?


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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MrBond #2581104 06/23/15 01:17 PM
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A good six months. I am going to Al-Anon to try and understand the alcoholism.

I really don't see the hope the W tells me she is not happy in the M. But she then wants me to spend more time with me.

I realized some time ago that I needed to make an effort to do more activities she likes. When I did them we actually had a good time (I thought).

We are supposed to work out tonight, told her this morning that I cannot afford another fee and she told me she would take care of it.

One of my goals is to get better in shape and she is in real good shape. Although I figured I could attend this with her and focus on the trainer and not her.


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Are you still intimate with her?


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Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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MrBond #2581119 06/23/15 01:56 PM
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Up until yesterday. Today she gave me a hug.


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Wife texted me this afternoon and asked if I wanted to talk. Told her that I did not think this was a good idea right now. We then texted over Facebook.

In short w does not want to talk about the a. Told her that I have no intention of being third fiddle. Wants to roll the A under the carpet. Told me that she has been faking having a good time and that she has not been physical with OM. I replied that an EA is just as bad, but I don't think she understands that concept. Becomes hysterical when I say that I think I need to leave. Given my S13 aspergers I told him I would be going to Dallas for a few days. In reality I am staying at my grandmas house for a few days.

W tells me that she doesn't want to break up the home. She throws out a series of suggestions and gets mad when I tell her that I think I will be taking a timeout.

Conversation ends their and we have not spoken again today. It is killing me not being at home I miss the kids so much.


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Stayed the night at my grandma's house. That sucked I have never felt so alone without the kids. W has brought the possibility of a MC, but at this time I don't know if this is an attempt to get me back in the house.

Here is my predicament: as I have said my S13 has aspergers and does not handle change. Before this things in the house have been so calm that he has really been excelling and wanting to do more socially - this is a big step for him.

I really don't want to come back to the house right now because it seems that W is giving lip service to get me back home. I can be gone a few more days before S13 realizes that I am not on a business trip.

I just don't know what to do. I am not being a great dad by being away, but being under the same roof with W will drive me nuts.

If she asks me to go home I want to make it conditional and here are my requests:

1. End the EA with the OM,
2. Find a new AA group or agree to go inpatient for the drinking; and
3. Agree to go to a MC.


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Those are good boundaries. You have to be sure she sticks with them though along with consequences. A written marriage contract between you would be great.


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Emotion, yet peace.
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Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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MrBond #2581475 06/24/15 10:20 AM
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W texted me this morning. Wants to know when I am coming home. Told her IDK. She assumed that I want to proceed with a D. Explained the concept of an EA to her.

I guess texting is better than talking b/c I can lay out my concerns before getting side tracked.

Repeatedly told me that there never was a PA with the OM. She has yet to say I will do whatever it takes to make the R work. Not assuming she will either.

Mr Bond I don't know how to even breach the idea of a marriage contract.


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Received another message from W that S13 knows that I am not in Dallas and is beside himself. Wants me to come home almost to the point of begging me.

Says I don't giver her space. Told her that I chose to stay away for awhile so she could have some space. Continues to tell me that there was no PA or EA with her friend. He is one of her sponsors at AA. Has told me that he no longer attends meetings with him, but continues to text for support. She also uses an alternate email since AA is anonymous and her email account is her full name. Although I have never seen the texts I don't believe this should change how I treat her. Sometimes I wished I snooped and looked at them. Does it make sense to snoop or does it do further damage? IDK

To me it sounds like an EA, but there is no point in arguing about it with her. In her mind they are just friends and it is pointless to convince her otherwise. To be honest she has had a lot of male work friends and I have never been threatened by them.

Ideally I did not want to come home for a few weeks but realize that with her work schedule it is not fair to put all the child care on her.

For the last few years I have been the primary care giver for the kids due to her work schedule. This has been a source of resentment for her although I have told her time and time again this is not a game and I am not keeping score, we are a team.

W has a series of medical procedures on Friday that will determine if she will be off of her feet for 12 weeks recovering from surgery. I took some time off to take her since she will not be able to drive - she was concerned that I bailed on her and I advised that I would still take her.

By now I think I have read everyone of Sandi2's posts about the WAW. I have stopped making contact and have tried to validate her feelings while we text. I realize that while I may have been doing a great deal with the kids I may have neglected spending time with the W - not that this is ever an excuse for an A.

She thinks that I am proceeding with a D. Truth be told I have never even uttered the words to her.

During the day I am trying to dig deep in my work and not think about the W. I know that I can have fun with the kids and be detached from the W.

Last edited by Sad in WI; 06/24/15 12:46 PM.

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MrBond #2581520 06/24/15 02:20 PM
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I think the email you heard "I miss you and want you in my arms" is very clear that it is at a minimum an EA. Your wife not letting you see the emails and text messages is a big red flag. Believe nothing what she says and only half what she does. If it were me I would require full disclosure before anything else.


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mvgfwd2 #2581528 06/24/15 02:33 PM
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I should almost tell the kids that dad will be away for a while. I just don't want to cause the kids further pain. Kids with aspergers do not deal with change well. The last major change he smashed holes in the walls and did not sleep for days.

My D9 would be able to accept the fact that I an gone for a while, but with S13 it is always twice as hard and always a fight. Not making any excuses just laying out the past.

Last edited by Sad in WI; 06/24/15 02:35 PM.

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No reason for you to leave.


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mvgfwd2 #2581543 06/24/15 03:15 PM
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But if I come back am I not condoning the A?


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Sitting in front of a computer, call her and ask her (live, NOT on voicemail) for her login and password for her anonymous email account.

If she balks, you'll have your answer, and you also won't be "snooping" behind her back.

Starsky


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BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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You are not condoning the A by staying. Set boundaries of what you will not allow in YOUR home. Read up on boundaries. If one of your boundaries is NC with OM then state it and take action if violated. I'm not talking about controlling her but doing things you can do.

Maybe send her to the couch, or other actions you can take while in the house. Being out of the house YOU are the one inconvenienced by the A. It should be the other way. Maybe cut off the cell phone or internet access if you are the one paying for it. Let her get these herself if she's intent on maintaining contact. Why are you facilitating an A with family money?

Actions, not words. You're not saying W can't contact OM, she has to make her own decision, but if it's one of your boundaries then take action to get it out of your house.

I required complete access to all communication channels and NC with multiple people. Fortunately, my W complied and she will tell you today she is so much happier getting all those negative people out of her life. But I had to lay down my boundaries first, then after a few weeks the fog started to clear for her. It took getting the OM and other facilitators/supporters voices out of her head to make that happen.


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mvgfwd2 #2581581 06/24/15 05:07 PM
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Sad

I think so far you are on the right path. Just understand your W is going to do all she can to be able to have both worlds .. sure she wants you home, but she is not going to admit to the EA obviously .... the line about OM being one of the sponsors ... well ""I miss you and want you in my arms." ... thats one helluva supportive sponsor ... total BS line and I would truth dart that one.

I think your boundaries are perfect but as Starsky suggested ... she needs to go full transparency, End the A, send a NC contact letter to OM.

Till then ... her mess, her choice .. she can choose the A, or choose to end it and begin to repair the M. Again ... her CHOICE not yours, you have stated what you can and can not deal with .. do not allow her to cake eat.


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CaliGuy #2581600 06/24/15 06:14 PM
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She will not give me any access so I think I will be staying away for another day or two.


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Hi Sad, Im so sorry you are here, but I agree with the others - you are doing the right things. I agree about the 'hold you in my arms' line - an EA at least. It may be more it may not. But one thing for you to know is - all cheaters lie. The guys who have been around on this forum for a good while have never met a cheater who didn't lie. So, I expect your W is lying about how far the R has gone. My H did - on many occasions and over a number of months.

It's a horrible situation, but you are lucky to have found the forum and others will help you in coming months. Please don't expect an early resolution to your sitch. Most take some time to work through. A's are notoriously addictive and they tend to need to run their course. Reading the WW thread was a good start - and it gives you a good idea of the kind of stance you need to take - Alpha male, but not being a jerk about things.

Keep posting, and just focus on keeping your head above water right now. T :-)

Last edited by Toots; 06/24/15 07:45 PM.

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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2581642 06/24/15 08:12 PM
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W wanted to talk this afternoon, but I opted for texting. Here is the main concern of the conversation:

"This brings up all the same stuff for me about the whole lack of love I feel. I'm not that attracted to you. I stay because of S13. I've told you this before. I almost left before because of it. I don't know how to change my feelings. I try. I try to be happy and enjoy doing things as a family. I love doing things with the kids and they need the family unit so I stay. I don't know what else to do."

She then states that she would see a MC.

It seems like there is no hope of saving our R.


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MrBond #2581648 06/24/15 08:25 PM
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""This brings up all the same stuff for me about the whole lack of love I feel. I'm not that attracted to you. I stay because of S13. I've told you this before. I almost left before because of it. I don't know how to change my feelings. I try. I try to be happy and enjoy doing things as a family. I love doing things with the kids and they need the family unit so I stay. I don't know what else to do."

It's funny. You don't get attracted to your spouse by doing family things. You get attracted by doing long term actions with YOUR SPOUSE. Sounds like depression to me.

"She then states that she would see a MC.

It seems like there is no hope of saving our R."

I'm not sure why you say that. I mean she wants to see an MC. How much about attraction have YOU learned?


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Others on here have repeatedly said women are not attracted to men who aren't confident and strong in demeanor and actions. Leaving is not a strong statement. Staying, setting boundaries, and enforcing them with actions, not words, are strong.


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MrBond #2581651 06/24/15 08:28 PM
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I tell her all the time that she is beautiful and that I am lucky to have her as my W. Always compliment her on her dress. Maybe I am not answering the question.


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mvgfwd2 #2581652 06/24/15 08:30 PM
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I left to try and get my thoughts together. Just wanted some time to hash things out.


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Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
I tell her all the time that she is beautiful and that I am lucky to have her as my W. Always compliment her on her dress. Maybe I am not answering the question.


You feeding her ego ... especially while she is goo-goo-ga-ga over OM and his amazing arms she is dreaming about being is is NOT going to attract her to you.

Now you being confident, firm in your boundaries ... might piss her off ... but she will respect you for it, no woman is attracted to a man she does not respect.


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That's nice to say but doesn't do much about attraction. Lots of men get cheated on because they put their wife on a pedestal. The guy is working to make his W happy and she begins to feel entitled to it and does not reciprocate in the relationship building. Loses respect and loving feelings for the guy....because you have told her you are lucky to have her. Meaning, she may feel she deserves better since she's been on this pedestal for so long.


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mvgfwd2 #2581666 06/24/15 08:49 PM
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So what do I do?


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Read up on boundaries. Define them. Go home and make them known. Be prepared to take action if they are violated. Words are meaningless, actions are what you want. It's your house and your family. What would you do if this OM just came to the house and moved in? Well, he moved in, just not in person. You're either OK with him in your house or you are not.

Last edited by mvgfwd2; 06/24/15 09:04 PM.

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mvgfwd2 #2581682 06/24/15 09:16 PM
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I told her that I was not comfortable with the OM but she tells me they are just friends. Told her I am not going to be sloppy seconds. That is where we left it.


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My W said the same thing until some of the truth saw the light of day. She swore up and down, on the bible, on her mother's grave, etc. Even got angry that I wouldn't believe her. Then I was presented with information to the contrary. WAWs lie. You told her where you stand. Just words. Begging for her to do what you want will get you no where and is not attractive to her. You can't tell her or beg her to do anything she doesn't want to do. That's why your words have no meaning. Actions command attention and gain respect.

Last edited by mvgfwd2; 06/24/15 09:35 PM.

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mvgfwd2 #2581695 06/24/15 09:40 PM
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It as almost like an ultimatum - in my mind there can be no R until this is transparent. If nothing changes I will be leaving by 8/1.


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Received another text from W saying that S13 had a temper tantrum and had told her he will not calm down until I am back. She has requested that I come home since I am at the best at calming him down. Told her that I would take care of him, but not sure if I am staying.


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You can do a lot before leaving. Boundaries are not ultimatums. They are just things you can't allow in your life and your home. She can decide whether she wants to respect them or not. From what you said she doesn't respect them. So what can you do to gain some respect? Someone set the house alarm so it would go off when the WAW came home late. That ended that. You can cut off the internet service if that is how they are communicating. She can get her own. Same for the phone. You don't have to facilitate the A. Some have told the WAS to leave the bedroom. Etc. And why are you leaving? She is the one who should leave in my mind if it comes to that.


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mvgfwd2 #2581780 06/25/15 02:33 AM
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The W pays for her own phone and the internet, although I could be a dick and change the password for the router laugh

W called me on her way home to talk about her job, I just listened and validated. We have not had a real conversation like that in awhile.

Anyways came home to get my S13 calmed down and relaxed. It was like a won the super bowl the kids and the dog were jumping up and down and they were very happy to see me. W even said the dogs were extra happy that I was home.

W was drinking some wine, but I simply ignored it. She was giving me the third degree about where I really was and if I was at OW house overnight. She would not relent on this one, I simply said I was staying at my grandma's house. I thought it was kind of funny.

After I spent a good hour with the kids she told me about her job and what was going on - again I listen and validate. I am so tired that I simply chose to listen. She wanted to be intimate but I said not tonight.

For the first time in along time we had a conversation that had nothing to do with the kids or money. She asked if I would go and work out with her Thursday night and I said I would.

I did not press anything or talk about the R or OM. It was nice.


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Was able to get some sleep for the first time in a few days. Pretty much kept to myself while W was relaxing before leaving. Some talk about future purchases and upcoming weekends, but I kept it short and light. She confirmed that we would be working out tonight and that she would pick me up. W has been on me to get back into working out. Figured it would provide some alone time and I always feel better when I am working out regularly.

Yesterday was the first time W talked about what was bothering her with work and her job to me without the kids in a long time. For the most part I was listening and validating. It was nice.

Like I said in my last post she was getting on me about leaving the house and not telling her where I was. Said it was a double standard. Did not respond to this b/c it is, I would be pissed off if the shoe were on the other foot.

I am living my life day by day and have to keep reassuring myself that one good day does not mean things are fixed or that a bad day means all is lost.

For the next few weeks here are my goals:

1. Keep being the best dad that I can be to my kids,

2. When W and I our at home have some space from the W,

3. Try to make some time with the W to just sit down and talk - maybe go out and grab a coffee/lunch without the kids.

None of this addresses the EA or the OM, but there is nothing I can do about that.


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I'm a bit confused. I reread your first post where you said she would pay the fee for working out? Are you finances already separate? She has hers, you and yours? My opinion is that when married it's all family money. You seem to have been living separately even before all this. I don't think that is a healthy practice for a committed marriage. But that's just my opinion. My view is working together in a marriage is a full time team effort in all aspects.


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I am not very good with my finances and have been known to have a few NSF fees, to minimize this I have my own checking account. However we both pay the family bills etc. and have access to each account. We have a monthly checklist of all the bills that my W has set up. My W will double check to make sure all the bills are paid b/c I have been known to slip up. We both have access to all bills etc.

Last edited by Sad in WI; 06/25/15 02:40 PM.

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Originally Posted By: mvgfwd2
You are not condoning the A by staying. Set boundaries of what you will not allow in YOUR home. Read up on boundaries. If one of your boundaries is NC with OM then state it and take action if violated. I'm not talking about controlling her but doing things you can do.

Maybe send her to the couch, or other actions you can take while in the house. Being out of the house YOU are the one inconvenienced by the A. It should be the other way. Maybe cut off the cell phone or internet access if you are the one paying for it. Let her get these herself if she's intent on maintaining contact. Why are you facilitating an A with family money?

Actions, not words. You're not saying W can't contact OM, she has to make her own decision, but if it's one of your boundaries then take action to get it out of your house.

I required complete access to all communication channels and NC with multiple people. Fortunately, my W complied and she will tell you today she is so much happier getting all those negative people out of her life. But I had to lay down my boundaries first, then after a few weeks the fog started to clear for her. It took getting the OM and other facilitators/supporters voices out of her head to make that happen.


this. ^^^



whistle whistle whistle whistle


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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
I tell her all the time that she is beautiful and that I am lucky to have her as my W. Always compliment her on her dress. Maybe I am not answering the question.


You feeding her ego ... especially while she is goo-goo-ga-ga over OM and his amazing arms she is dreaming about being is is NOT going to attract her to you.

Now you being confident, firm in your boundaries ... might piss her off ... but she will respect you for it, no woman is attracted to a man she does not respect.


x 2. Supplication is NOT attractive.


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Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
The W pays for her own phone and the internet, although I could be a dick be a strong man and protect my home and fight for my marriage and change the password for the router laugh



There. Fixed ^ it for you. smirk


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I have changed the router password, but she can still access email on her phone, but at least I am showing her that this behavior is not being condoned by me in our home, make it harder at least.

Right now though she is not respecting my boundaries and my only solution to this in my head is - "Ok you keep talking to OM - this bothers me and you tell me nothing is going on."

Here are my choices as I see them:

We can stay under the same roof for a time while we sort the D details out. We will provide for the children, but I will not have any intimate contact with you while you continue on with the OM with the EA and become more detached. OR

I do not want to live like this so I must walk away. I have a house I can stay at rent free for as long as I want. I will care for the kids.

If I go out and sign a lease I can't pay the mortgage and the house will be foreclosed. OR

I can tell her she is no longer welcome in our home as long as the EA continues with the OM.

At this point she has agreed to a MC that is it, am I missing something in this approach?


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For a GAL activity you could straighten up your financial management activities. You will need this not only to re-attract your W but also if things go the other way. Poor money management may be one of the things that grinds her. Like she's bailing you out all the time. Time to fix that, pronto.


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Great Idea and something easy to do. Thanks for the suggestion.


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I have been looking over my posts that few days and would like to truly thank you all for your input. I really appreciate you all do for a stranger.


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Try Financial Peace University to get yourself squared up on money matters. Your library should have a copy.


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mvgfwd2 #2582028 06/25/15 07:11 PM
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Is that the Dave Ramsey book there are a few books with that title.


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I think there is a 3rd option - tell your W that if she wants to continue, she'll need to find herself a new place to live. Why should you have to move out? I moved out when my H admitted his A (and wanted to continue it) but the advice on this forum tends to be don't move out.

That said - in house S whilst your W is having an A is NOT easy. Diffrent in Newcomers has done this, as has U turn and Rai.

Take care and keep posting - you're doing really well...


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yes, Ramsey is the one I know. But there are plenty of other good books on the subject too. I like the Ramsey one because it is also a 9 week course that you can take with your W. That could be a great way to come together and work as a team. Puts the future focus on the family goals and away from distractions like the OM.

Last edited by mvgfwd2; 06/25/15 07:54 PM.

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I struggle with moving thing and have gone over it in my head over and over again. I don't want my S13/D9 to suffer due to the decisions of the W. If am there with them they get the love and attention they are accustomed to and deserve. If one of us leaves S13 will go in a tail spin. When I left he did not sleep until I returned.

When I first visited here in 12 I was a lousy dad obsessed with his career. Now I am so much more involved with their care that I am the primary care giver - not keeping score just stating that due to W's work schedule more the kids stuff is on me.

W called and asked if I could take her to a medical consultation and go shopping for her cousin's wedding present. Due to the procedure she cannot drive and our parents are still working. Part of me wanted to say why don't you have the OM come and pick you up?

I agreed to take her since every other ride fell through apparently. I can't help feeling kind of a lap dog, I should be like you made the decision that I am not good enough for you how dare you ask for help. Go f*ck yourself.


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mvgfwd2 #2582049 06/25/15 07:59 PM
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Awesome just ordered the book on Kindle.


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Cheer up. GAL'ing makes your life better with or without the W. Drop the "Sad" in WI and become "Awesome" in WI. Be the H that W would be a fool to not join in your future. That's why my handle is Moving Forward. It's what I am now. Not stuck in the stupid past. And I chose it because it is a non-stop attitude. Your feelings of sadness are new. Once you get a handle on the GAL'ing that will change.

Be Strong


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I just started thinking about the A and what is really going on with the OM. A wondering mind can be a destructive thing.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.


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Have you ever gone to C for yourself to deal with the resentment you have?


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Not for a few years. By your suggestion this is something I will look into.


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S13 was in another rage moment when I came home. Tension in the house was bad until I had a chance to calm him down and talk with him. He is writing on FB that we are getting a D. Told him that mom and dad love him very much.

W again wanted me to sit down with her and talk. She is tired of her job and wants to do something else like open a hobby farm and is talking about us having this when we retire. I keep validating her feelings and have to take a big sip of STFU juice b/c nothing has been resolved with the EA and the OM. It is the 500 pound elephant in the room.

After my S13's tantrum I was spent so I simply sat and let her talk. W said that we have do more talking in the last two days than we have in a long time.


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Spent the day with the W today before and after her medical appointment. Had a decent time and went out for lunch. Said she wished we had more weddings to go to since we have spent 2 of the 3 last Fridays together hanging out. Talked a lot about job, kids and hobby farm.

A pretty good day.


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We had a wedding to attend this weekend 2.5 hours from our home. W keeps checking phone and I think it it with OM but I can't be sure.

W has been talking this weekend about unhappy she is with her job. She could quit her job and it would not hurt us financially much. She feels like she is no longer involved with the kids and this bothers her.

Tonight I am dealing with crabby drunk. I was really having a good time at the wedding and enjoyed hanging out with W's relatives that I had no seen in ages. When she could barely walk decided it was time to go.

I am trying to stay positive so that I can remain strong and not backslide. For my positives I have started another fitness program that I like and think I can continue on. When W wants to talk I am trying to validate her. I am trying not to snoop and keep my focus on me and not her and OM.

S13 and W were fighting on they way home from the wedding, I was trying to be the peacemaker but they kept going at it. I have always tried to take the position that she is your mom and that you should respect her, but tonight I just gave up.

They fought until she passed out and fell asleep.

I continue to tell myself to be the best H that I can be that any W would be a fool to leave. And I know that I have to keep on being the best dad that I can be.

W told me that she no longer was talking to the OM however she would not let me look at her email so I think she is lying.

She continue to wear her ring and wants us to do more stuff together. If she was doing the opposite I could understand, however how she is acting really confuses me. Sorry for the rambling.


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Trip back home was pretty uneventful although W has been stating that her current job is makin her unhappy and has been for months. She stated that it took her a few months to figure this out and that is why she did not tell me.

After we took D9 to the pool we revised her resume and put together a nice cover letter. W thanked me multiple times and gave me a hug.

W applied for a few more jobs and we talked some more about jobs.


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Woke this morning and again W told me how grateful she was that we put a new resume together. She gave me a hug and a kiss and thanked me again. It made me feel good to see her happy.

Told me that she felt better about her job search and applied for a few more jobs this morning before she left for work. She also apologized for how tense she has been lately and that she no longer wants to work full time.

She used to only work 4 days a week now they are changing this to 5 days a week.

W told me she feels incredibly guilty about working full time and not helping S13 with school, etc. Since her income is supplemental I told her that this would not be an issue.

W told me this morning that on Sunday she has reached out to my sisters and have invited them over to our house for a get together for the 4th of July. It surprised me that she took this initiative, but thought it was a great idea. We usually hang out at the MIL house so this was a bit of surprise.

W also asked that me go to a work friend's engagement party in a few weeks without the kids. Agreed to this since it was some guaranteed kid free time.

W was getting anxious so she left and told me she would pick me up tonight to go workout.

Like I have been saying I have been having more conversations with her that we have in ages. Have to keep telling myself to not get too high or low and just take it day by day.


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She's playing you, and totally cake-eating. If she won't let you see her phone or email, then you basically have your answer on whether or not she's still cheating on you. This supplicating, give-her-a-hug, help-her-with-her-resume and listen to her like her gay boyfriend thing is NOT the way to re-attract her!

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Starsky,

I appreciate your advice and opinion. I am not going to rationalize my actions or provide justification for same.

It has been a week since I have been back at this board. You are saying that by my listening and helping my W I am doing nothing to improve my situation or gain respect or attraction in her eyes.

I am not trying to say your opinion is wrong, but if one of our issues was lack of communication and then W starts communicating isn't that a positive? Or is the view that until she provides complete transparency it is all BS?

It seems that some threads say that you should be the best H you can be that only a fool would leave while others say you should detach.

Am I not doing worse by not communicating with her? If I turn my back on this doesn't that prove that she is right?

I am not trying to start a fight or tell someone they are wrong. It is just after reading a lot of these posts it seems like people are on both sides. It really makes my head hurt.

Head hurting or not I do appreciate your advice.


Last edited by Sad in WI; 06/30/15 03:00 AM.

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I think you are confusing a few things.

It's not being the best H you can be. It's GAL'ing to be the best MAN you can be that only a fool would leave. That is doing things to change yourself and has nothing to do with detaching. Detaching is to stop pursuing your W like a puppy dog begging for attention. Both can be done at the same time.

You need to GAL to re-attract her but also to build your confidence and move yourself to a better place emotionally.

Detaching is also a tool to re-attract. As strange as it may seem by not pursuing your W creates a void in your direction that she will fill by pursuing you. It may take time but it does happen.

Why is she not letting you see the emails or phone records? That is a big red flag that she IS hiding something to rock her cake-eating world.


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mvgfwd2 #2583398 06/30/15 12:52 PM
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The W did show me her phone account and her Hotmail account. Nothing was there or out of the ordinary. She will not let me look at her AA email account that she emails her sponsors etc. When I press her she tells me that this personal.

I am at an impasse on this one with her.


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Maybe get a compromise. Ask to just see WHO she is corresponding with in that AA email account for now. The content is only important in the OM emails.

Last edited by mvgfwd2; 06/30/15 12:57 PM.

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I am going to discuss this with her tonight. She was working on her job search and somehow stumbled upon this site - forgot to clear my history. Sometimes I am an airhead.


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So she can dig into your personal stuff but not the other way?


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Originally Posted By: mvgfwd2
Maybe get a compromise. Ask to just see WHO she is corresponding with in that AA email account for now. The content is only important in the OM emails.


I like this -- that is wise.


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Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
Starsky,

I appreciate your advice and opinion. I am not going to rationalize my actions or provide justification for same.

It has been a week since I have been back at this board. You are saying that by my listening and helping my W I am doing nothing to improve my situation or gain respect or attraction in her eyes.

I am not trying to say your opinion is wrong, but if one of our issues was lack of communication and then W starts communicating isn't that a positive? Or is the view that until she provides complete transparency it is all BS?

It seems that some threads say that you should be the best H you can be that only a fool would leave while others say you should detach.

Am I not doing worse by not communicating with her? If I turn my back on this doesn't that prove that she is right?

I am not trying to start a fight or tell someone they are wrong. It is just after reading a lot of these posts it seems like people are on both sides. It really makes my head hurt.

Head hurting or not I do appreciate your advice.



I know this can seem confusing.

It depends on what you know, and what she KNOWS that you know. When a woman is cheating, and her husband knows, and she KNOWS that he knows, the entire dynamic necessarily changes. She will see you as WEAK if you do all the normal validating, hugging, do-more-around-the-house stuff that might otherwise be called for in a situation where the spouse isn't wayward.

(see Sandi's excellent threads for husbands of Wayward Wives)

Even worse, I see her intentionally playing you with a lot of her tactics, and when you CONTINUE to respond with even more of the BFF stuff, it's just enabling her cake-eating and she's no doubt thinking "Sad seems OK with all of this, in fact he seems to be vying for my attention and affection. I have him firmly in 'Plan B' territory, where I want him while I see how things progress (or not) with OM."

I of course could be wrong, but her secrecy is a huge red flag.


Starsky

Last edited by Starsky309; 06/30/15 04:18 PM.

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I need to confront W on this issue of the email account. I am concerned that she will see this as an ultimatum and decide to leave. I really don't want that, but then again I should not allow anyone to treat me like a door mat.

I am trying to formulate my approach to this.


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What is that you ultimately want? I see you flip flopping between wanting to save the M and not. I get it that you want her to stop with the OM, but right now it doesn't seem like she's going to.

If you want to save your M, then I think you need to put in some VERY strong boundaries with your W.


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Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
I need to confront W on this issue of the email account. I am concerned that she will see this as an ultimatum and decide to leave.


It's either a core boundary with you or it's not. It's HER choice as to whether or not her secrecy is more important to her than her marriage. That's the beauty of boundaries: if she balks, then you haven't really lost anything because tolerating infidelity, secrecy and disrespect in your marriage is not something you could have lived with anyway.

Doesn't make it EASY, but it really does make it SIMPLE.


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Thanks for the advice! Short and sweet. I get this.

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W and I had a chance to talk this morning. W said she wanted to quit her job and could use her retirement money to live on until she found a new job. Told me that what does it matter since we have my account. Told her that at this time I think she is assuming too much.

Told her that as I see it that this M is likely not going to last that long given the OM and her reluctance to be transparent with me. If nothing is going on then this should not be an issue.

She hemmed and hawed on this issue - no movement yet. She asked me if I would go to her IC with her. Told her that I don't know and that I am unwilling to sweep the secrecy crap under the rug.

That was the end on the conversation - good times.

Last edited by Sad in WI; 07/01/15 12:50 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
W and I had a chance to talk this morning. W said she wanted to quit her job and could use her retirement money to live on until she found a new job. Told me that what does it matter since we have my account.


I don't understand what that last statement means? She plans on using her retirement money to fund her unemployment period, or some account of yours?? confused

Quote:
She asked me if I would go to her IC with her. Told her that I don't know and that I am unwilling to sweep the secrecy crap under the rug.


Excellent answer -- GOOD JOB!!!


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At her job she has a 401K she can take. I also have a 401K at my job. W and kids are the beneficiaries.


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Good for you Sad. I certainly don't think your W should be making assumptions about you 'supporting her' whilst OM is somewhere in the picture. I think you are quite right to put her straight on that one.

That was a good response to the counselling too. I think you are starting to find your stride here. I was concerned about your earlier posts and the 'friendly, friendly' stuff. I'm pleased to see your direction of travel now though....

Good luck :-)


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Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
At her job she has a 401K she can take. I also have a 401K at my job. W and kids are the beneficiaries.


Ahhh, gotcha. Yeah, if she wants to quit her job, let her use her own 401(k). No time to be coddling her financially -- if she wants to be a wayward or WAW, let her put on her BGPs.


Starsky


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I think you should require 1/2 of her 401 to be set aside in case things don't work out.... As I see it she wants to spend her money now and YOUR money later..... Ummmmm not cool.


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Honestly I think it is under $2000 and with fees and such no more than $1500. If it comes to D I will get an accounting for it.

I have not talked to W or been on FB. I did receive a message from her that states:

"This job has had a tremendous impact on our family, I have not been a good W or mother to the children. I am sorry for not being home more, I want to change this."

Again nothing about the EA - I have not responded to this.

Last edited by Sad in WI; 07/01/15 06:09 PM.

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Sad

Just caught u p.. I too was wincing at you allowing the cake eat fest and hopefully you do see the trend here, your W needs to make you and you rM #1 priority .... the fact she feels comfy and can drop her job ... my ears perked up a bit .. look at this as more time she can hang with OM while you are at work because at this point ... you have no clue if the A is over or not, your W has not been fully transparent with you.

Bottom line, she has to respect you and your boundaries .. more importantly you need to hold those boundaries and not waiver. I can understand how the AA stuff is personal ... but the more you dig the deeper she is going to hide her secrets, she is better at hiding things than you are giving her credit for.


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Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
Honestly I think it is under $2000 and with fees and such no more than $1500. If it comes to D I will get an accounting for it.

I have not talked to W or been on FB. I did receive a message from her that states:

"This job has had a tremendous impact on our family, I have not been a good W or mother to the children. I am sorry for not being home more, I want to change this."

Again nothing about the EA - I have not responded to this.


Normally we advise "If it's not about the kids, and doesn't ask a question, no need to respond," but this is kind of serious to just blow off without acknowledging. You don't want to be a d*ck and appear rude.

I might just wait a couple hours and then say "Yeah, this has been very difficult on all of us." or something neutral like that.

Starsky


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Starsky,

I did the old cut and paste job eek

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Excellent! Don't forget to keep up your GAL activities.


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mvgfwd2 #2584003 07/01/15 10:43 PM
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Would it be wise to confront the W at the IC session I was thinking saying something like when you drink you do dumb things like text the OM and this upsets me? This last week she is acting like everything's ok wants to hang out, have sex and do more things together.

Wants to sweep it under the rug. Is it wise to draw the proverbial line in the sand?


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"Would it be wise to confront the W at the IC session I was thinking saying something like when you drink you do dumb things like text the OM and this upsets me?"

Yes and no. Stick to the facts and don't say things like "dumb". Talk to her the way you would want to be spoken to. If you say that her actions are "dumb", she's going to hear it as you saying she's dumb. And that will shut her down pretty quick.


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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To all the those who have read my thread and provided insight,

Thanks for the advice. I will stick to being treated the way I want to be treated when we meet with her IC. I am going to voice my concerns about her drinking (since that is why I am there) and working less and the new free time (drink/OM) she will have.


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Here is a little funny story (or at least I thought it was), so W has off of work today and the kids are on vacation. I get up early and decide to go to work.

So I am at work and in our server room. I come back to my phone and there are 6 calls and 2 text from W. She is in a state of panic that I did not talk to her before I left this morning.

I just replied that everyone was asleep and that I wanted to get out of here earlier. Funny how W wants her privacy, but I am supposed to check in.


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This is how detaching works. You are no longer a puppy dog begging for attention. She wants the begging and compliant Sad back where she wants you.


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mvgfwd2 #2584117 07/02/15 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: mvgfwd2
This is how detaching works. You are no longer a puppy dog begging for attention. She wants the begging and compliant Sad back where she wants you.


This. ^^^



Starsky


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Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
Would it be wise to confront the W at the IC session I was thinking saying something like when you drink you do dumb things like text the OM and this upsets me? This last week she is acting like everything's ok wants to hang out, have sex and do more things together.

Wants to sweep it under the rug. Is it wise to draw the proverbial line in the sand?


There's nothing wrong with enlisting your MC's help in communicating your boundaries to your wife. I would just be sure to include not just "texting OM when you're drinking," but that "I will not live in an open marriage. I cannot feel safe in a marriage where you're in inappropriate contact with another man, and are being secretive with me about it. This doesn't work for me."


Starsky


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I have off Friday and the W has to go to work. For a GAL activity I thought after working out why not go for a stroll and then pick up something to drink.

I started to get ready and in my head imagined that I was getting ready for a date. W who was getting ready to sleep, asked what I was doing and I simply said since I have off tonight is a good time to go out for a bit.

Left my phone at home and went for a nice walk and finished it off with two beers. It was nice not having to worry about kids or the W and just relax and reflect.

When I got home W asked me where I was and all I said was out for a walk. She then stated that she tried to call me - I simply said there was no need to take my phone and walked away. She would not let it go.

Told her that I thought it was ironic that she wants all her privacy and wants me to report to her like I am her child. She said it was rude to go out - I just walked away and went into my office.

When the shoe is on the other foot W does not like it. On a positive note I really do appreciate the time to myself.


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Good job. GAL and detach all in one.


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mvgfwd2 #2584859 07/05/15 03:53 AM
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Happy 4th of July to all of you out there. Hope yours is a safe and happy one.

Spent the day with the family doing the standard 4th of July activities - parade, cook out, pool and fireworks. No issues with the W and I can say I had a good time.

The kids are going to be with their grandmother next weekend so I thought this would be a good weekend to get away on my own. I think that I have a tendency to sometimes forget about me and I am more than a dad and husband. Figured with the kids gone I could do some serious GAL. W also thought it would be a good time to have a girl's weekend.

The time away issue used to be an issue with me and W - from my perspective I could not understand why W would want time away from us. When she did hang out with her girl friends she would come back home relaxed.

W is planning future activities and said she is looking forward to going on vacation the first week of August. I am trying my best not to show emotion either way. I guess it is good she is excited but the EA with the OM is the 500 pound elephant in the room. She was upset that I won't ML to her and have not for a few weeks. Told her that we have some issues that we will need to address before I am comfortable with doing that again. The beat goes on.


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Are any of her friends divorced or having affairs of their own? If so, it might be not as good of a thing as you may think.


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The group of girls are all married.


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I continue to move forward with some of my 180's - I read a book about finances, spent a lot of time with D9 and had an nice three day weekend - drama free. Will be doing a GAL weekend without W and kids for the first time in a long time.

From the DB/DR and postings on the board the issue of the EA is solely with W. I mean, it is in her hands if she decides to end it. For over a week I have been acting like her BFF and I have been declining her solicitations to ML.

Since I do not want to be anyone's door mat until we have a heart to heart on the privacy and EA things with me and her are in a state of limbo. I am trying to focus on my 180's, GAL and taking things one day at a time. I just wish that sometimes I had more patients - some of this would be so much easier IMHO.


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I don't think being a BFF is what you should be acting like.


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mvgfwd2 #2585288 07/06/15 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: mvgfwd2
I don't think being a BFF is what you should be acting like.



x 2.


Starsky


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I don't know if it was going back to work, my snarky boss and the family, but I was in a bad mood tonight when I got home. W would not let up and kept asking me what was wrong.

I guess I was thinking about the secrecy and related crap going on with the W and let the bad emotions get the better of me. I decided that it would be good to go for a walk alone to try and clear my head out - no phone or other distractions.

Then I came to this thought - I can let my W's behavior and actions make me miserable or I can choose to stay focused on me and what I can control. I can waste my time thinking about the EA and OM or focus on positive things in my life like my children, health and the fact that I am blessed to have a job that supports my family.

I feel dirty playing house with the W and probably will until we have transparency - no matter how I want to convince myself otherwise I guess that is the thing that is bugging me the most. I will never understand how she doesn't get that I don't want to ML to her. I wish I could write with big letters on the wall or my forehead that her lies or half-truths have turned me off to her. Sorry I started to vent a little bit. Hope your nice is great and that you all have a blessed day.


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Sad,

There's a huge gulf of grey area in between the black of "obsessing over her affair and OM" and the white of "totally ignoring it and looking the other way."

And it's in that grey area where the best DBing is done.

No, you don't ignore it -- you confront it straight on, let her know what your boundaries are (100% no-contact and full transparency, perhaps MCing) and then you live your life and work on yourself. But you don't alter those hard boundaries. And when she asks you why you don't want to ML (or why you're upset, or anything else like that) you can just say what feels authentic to you at that moment, like "(Wife), you know my boundaries. As long as you're either still in contact with OM or choose to continue to have the ability to, and not be fully transparent with me, then you are not in this marriage and I cannot be either." When you're ready to fully commit and be transparent with me, I think you'll find me ready and willing to work on all issues, including my own contributions to our marital dysfunction, because I really DO want to have a great marriage with someone going forward."


Starsky


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You might want to start a new thread before this one is locked.


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