Zues, I hear you and respect your opinion. And I know that I would have NEVER walked away from my M, even though I can often identify with the WAWs here. Never.
However, in my friend's case, I totally understand where she's coming from. It's not a matter of how they are treating each other, it's a matter of how he is/isn't leading and providing for their family. It's not about money, it's about leadership. His successful business went down in the recession, and never recovered. He had brilliance, talent, connections people only dream of, and he adamantly refused to use any of it to move on, he stayed on the sinking ship, is there still. His mom is paying the household expenses out of her retirement fund, and he allows that. My friend, the W, has gone to work for the first time in their M life, she travels a lot and has missed the kids recitals, plays, games, and bedtime stories. He still refuses to step up and try something different. My friend received an anniversary present from her H, and he was open that mom bought it. To be clear, it's not about the money, she is totally OK with a modest lifestyle. It's about a man stepping up and doing what it takes to provide for his family, trying something new if what he's been doing for the past 8 years isn't working out, taking the steps to provide for your own and not bankrupt your mother. Really, that's the only issue going on, but in my opinion, it's a pretty big one.
Zues, I hear you and respect your opinion. And I know that I would have NEVER walked away from my M, even though I can often identify with the WAWs here. Never.
Thanks Sunny. I appreciate your understanding I wasn't arguing, just expressing my beliefs. And your commitment to M is inspiring. I believe you, and it's assuring to know there are women out there that feel this way. I may be working on Zues 2.0, but no matter how much I grow I would imagine there are times my future partner will feel this way. I hope I can find someone that is willing to remain committed.
I think about the old days, how you'd hear of marriages where one partner stayed through infidelity, alcoholism, unemployment, gambling addictions, physical abuse, etc. Now, I am glad that things have progressed to where women (or men) don't feel trapped in a dangerous relationship and this is a serious issue. But I think the D rate is serious as well in it's own way, and I admire spouses that stay with their partner through some of these other character flaws.
My good friend has a W who is a compulsive gambler which has lead to lying, stealing, embezzlement and termination of employment, and a withdrawal from any type of mature M. He has been by her side the entire time. 5-10 years of progressive issues. He only talks to me about it because he says everyone else kept telling him to leave her. Guess what? She's in GA treatment now for 90 days and they're working together more closely than ever before. THIS is marriage in my mind. True, they don't all work this way, and maybe she relapses, etc. But even still...that's life. God doesn't owe us a perfect partner. We're blessed to have a partner, and our job is to support and love them, whatever we get in return is a GIFT, not an entitlement. Getting a D in my book should be as rare as voluntarily placing your growing kids up for adoption or putting them in foster care.
Originally Posted By: SunnyB
However, in my friend's case, I totally understand where she's coming from. It's not a matter of how they are treating each other, it's a matter of how he is/isn't leading and providing for their family. It's not about money, it's about leadership. His successful business went down in the recession, and never recovered. He had brilliance, talent, connections people only dream of, and he adamantly refused to use any of it to move on, he stayed on the sinking ship, is there still. His mom is paying the household expenses out of her retirement fund, and he allows that. My friend, the W, has gone to work for the first time in their M life, she travels a lot and has missed the kids recitals, plays, games, and bedtime stories. He still refuses to step up and try something different. My friend received an anniversary present from her H, and he was open that mom bought it. To be clear, it's not about the money, she is totally OK with a modest lifestyle. It's about a man stepping up and doing what it takes to provide for his family, trying something new if what he's been doing for the past 8 years isn't working out, taking the steps to provide for your own and not bankrupt your mother. Really, that's the only issue going on, but in my opinion, it's a pretty big one.
Yup. I can understand the issues here. No easy answers. Clearly this would require a lot of boundaries, some tough love, and no enabling. I would hope she can find ways of restructuring her life to where she is protected from his issues but still leaving a paved road back for when he wants to step up again. To be fair, you said she "felt" like a WAW. There's a big difference between feeling that way and leaving. I don't blame her for feeling that way. I'd hope she doesn't leave, but each to their own. Not everyone feels how I do or we wouldn't have these forums.
Anyway- thanks for talking about it Sunny. You really do give me a lot of hope that the qualities I'm looking for are out there. Take care!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Good discussion, Zues. At this point my friend has no plans to walk. I just see the resentment growing and know it's going to poison her. It's sad.
I'm leaving tomorrow, driving 14 hours to the state where I grew up. Last night I texted H and asked him to call me today about some logistics related to my being gone a week, the teens staying here, and getting their rooms emptied and ready for the new flooring. He said he'd call this afternoon. So at 6:30pm, I texted him again to see if he was going to call. Sigh......this is why I get frustrated with the man. These things were important to me, I asked him to call, he said he would, then didn't until I nagged. If there's one thing I have NOT been over the years, it was a nag, and if I didn't really need to touch base with him before I left tomorrow, I'd have let it go. Anyway, we did end up talking, he understood everything I needed and said he'd take care of it, and...this is the important part....told me to drive safely and call him when I got there. If you remember my complaints about driving to bring home S19 from school, you'll know this was big for me. Maybe he doesn't actually give a cr*p and he just felt obligated to say it because we were on the phone, but I'll take it. Happily.
And I should have known better. He asked me to let him know I'd gotten here, so I did. And I have no idea if he read the text because he never replied, not even a "good". I just drove 800 miles non stop and he can't even give me a one-syllable acknowledgment . Clearly he does not have my best interests anywhere on his radar screen, I need to stay focused on my goals
That is sad to hear, but I love the way you ended your post. Right on!
Try to have a good evening.
*Hugs*
and more *Hugs*
Bob
Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS) M:14 yrs T:15 yrs No children together--3 each from previous marriages Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14 Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14 Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Thanks Bob. It's just a mystery to me why he can't be as civil to me as to anyone else. I've done nothing to him to deserve this, he's the one that cheated and walked and I've only been upbeat, polite, cheery, validating. I don't contact him frivolously.
But today's a new day and he can be juvenile if he likes, it doesn't affect my plans. I am taking D12 to a used book store she loves and to her favorite restaurant.
My take, Sunny, is that they feel really guilty, but don't want to accept those feelings. So, they turn us into the bad guy, deserving of their anger, so that they can look themselves in the mirror. Or perhaps it's just that they are the kind of people who cannot look inward, so they need to find an outward source of their unhappiness. It must be us, right?
My H still seems so angry with me-- he's told me that I "make" him feel guilty, and resents me for that. (What on earth could he possibly have to feel guilty about?!? haha). What power he gives me over his feelings. I feel sorry for him.
Try to let it roll off- so much of this is just not about us AT ALL. The more I detach and live my life apart from him, I see that clearly.
Sorry Sunny. I don't know your H but to me this sounds more dense than disrespectful.
I might be a bit dense too. I'm not sure I would've thought to ask for a text confirming you were safe. It might not even dawn on me that there was a risk, I might just take it for granted you'd be fine the same way if you told me you were going to the grocery store. And- if it did occur to me to ask to make sure you were ok, I could see getting the text and not responding just because- hey, I wasn't the one driving anywhere, you weren't worried about me.
I'm not sure, I haven't been in that exact spot. But I certainly have failed to live up to other people's ideas of what is civil behavior unintentionally.
Now if your H treated you differently during the M and is only now acting this way, then I'd say he's acting strange. But if this is the way he's always been I don't think it's because he's trying to be disrespectful, maybe he's just a dumb guy sometimes.
Point is unvoiced expectations and mindreading don't make anything better. But you know this, and you're doing the right thing by continuing to "phase him out" like Ross's English accent in that Friends episode...
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Thanks Bob. It's just a mystery to me why he can't be as civil to me as to anyone else. I've done nothing to him to deserve this, he's the one that cheated and walked and I've only been upbeat, polite, cheery, validating. I don't contact him frivolously.
But today's a new day and he can be juvenile if he likes, it doesn't affect my plans. I am taking D12 to a used book store she loves and to her favorite restaurant.
You're welcome Sunny. You're right, of course! You have done nothing to deserve to be treated this way. Nothing!
I love your PMA. Today is a new day. Have a great time with your D!
Many *Hugs*
Bob
Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS) M:14 yrs T:15 yrs No children together--3 each from previous marriages Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14 Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14 Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Good morning! Yesterday turned out to be a lovely day. Spent the afternoon in the used bookstore -it's huge- and dinner at d12's favorite restaurant. My mom tagged along and we all had a good time.
Claire, honestly, it would be nice to think there was some guilt there. Some emotion of some sort at least. He's the biggest ice cube ever. But I do need to remember it's not really about me these days. He will do what he will do and who knows why.
Zeus, I'm a really strong independent woman who can take care or herself but wants confirmation that I'm valued and cherished. I used to say "just because I can take care of myself doesn't mean I want to". In a way, I trained him to treat me the way he does because I took care of myself but never demanded or even asked for the second part. Should a husband have offered up some caring to his wife? Yes, but I never called him on it when I had the chance. Now it's way too late for that.
Bob, I always appreciate your positive posts!
I take d12 to camp this afternoon. I have plans with various relatives and friends the rest of the week.
At this point my friend has no plans to walk. I just see the resentment growing and know it's going to poison her. It's sad.