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Kramer, she's not making baby steps......she's playing games. She has just been rejected by OM and you don't even know where she was the other night, b/c she ain't telling. Suddenly, she starts teasing about slipping in the back door at night? That is not progress, guys!

What should you do? Keep you door locked!

Do not contact her about it, do not make any reference to what she said. Do NOT ask her any more questions! Never let her know you took her game seriously.

As far as you are concerned, it was all just a joke and you never thought she meant it.

(P.S. Thank you, Wonka.)


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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OK, I am going to post my latest interaction with my wife, and welcome any input, both good and bad. Please keep in mind that I am here because I want to save my marriage. I value everybody’s input, and try to do what I feel is best under my specific circumstances. Just because I do not adhere to advice does not mean that I do not value that advice. It simply means that I may have been too scared, too hardheaded, too proud, or didn’t plan things out well enough. Trust me, I am very receptive to advice, especially from those who have gone through things and came out on top. I will get this. Please continue to work with me. Call me out when I screw up. Be direct, but constructive. You don’t have to sugarcoat things, either. Just keep working with me. Please.

Sandi, before I even relate my story, I will be up front and tell you that I received your latest advice too late. I did leave my door unlocked, and my wife did come by. I see why you said what you did, and I am hoping you can give me your perspective and further advice with the knowledge that I did have an interaction with my wife.

As I stated, my wife came by early this morning. She came into my room, and asked if she could lie down next to me. We were both fully clothed. She backed up into me and we cuddled for a while and didn’t say anything. After a few moments, she asked if it would be more comfortable with our clothes off, and started to kiss me. I told her “Yes, and no”. Let’s just cut to the chase, and say that yes won out. I know, I’m weak. What can I say? It’s been 8 months. I’m going to give some details, because I think they may be relevant. She was very responsive. She insisted on kissing and holding. She and I were BOTH satisfied. Trust me on this, I know the physiologic signs…it wasn’t faked. Afterwards we fell asleep in each other’s arms for about an hour. She made it a point to place my hand over her breast and snuggled close to me, just like old times. Round 2 took place with similar results.

At this point, I went to the kitchen and got coffee and we talked. She asked me what I meant earlier when I said “yes and no”. I explained to her that while I was willing to enjoy the moment with her, I was conflicted because it likely meant something different to me than it did to her. She cried when I said this. I asked her about what just happened and why she came over, and she said that she wanted to see if it was awkward. I asked her if it was awkward and she said “No. Actually it feels like we just hit the pause button and things felt just the same as when we were together”. I agreed with her. She apologized again for making a mess of things and having affair. She said that I had been miserable for so long, and I acknowledged that. I told her that if there was a silver lining, it was that these events have allowed me to see my fallacies and work on self improvement and self love, and to come to the realization that happiness comes from within.

She again asked why and how I could still love her after what she did. I told her that my marriage vows meant more to me than her, apparently. More tears.

She asked if I was happy because she was gone. I gave her an analogy of a person who loses his sight in adulthood. He adapts and hones his other senses and is able to make his way in the world, but he always misses his vision because he knew what it felt like. I explained to her that although I am able to make my way in the world, there is still a hole where our love used to be. She seemed to grasp the analogy and started crying again. We talked about family things and day to day life. She took a shower, got dressed, hugged some more, and then left.

Some observations:
She made it a point to wear clothing that I had bought for her when she came over, as well as the perfume that I had given her. She was also wearing her ring, which she has not been doing.

She made it a point to look over my house as she was leaving. This is the first time she has been in the house since we split. I have replaced all of the furniture that she took, and I am an excellent housekeeper. The house looks good. She almost seemed to be taken aback that I wasn’t living out of boxes and folding card tables. I do wonder if she felt that I didn’t need her anymore.

We did not talk about the elephant in the room, namely her (likely ongoing) affair, as well as what her thoughts are on our relationship.

So there you have it, and all the sordid details. I’m sure I messed up on multiple levels, but it is what it is. I don’t know what happens next, but if I’m being honest, I enjoyed the moment. The last 6 months of our relationship were so bad and loveless, and if nothing else, I will have the memory of making love to my wife one last time. I also realize that I am still desireable. My self esteem had taken a huge hit when we split. Was it a game on her part? Perhaps, but keep in mind that she approached me, not the other way around.

My plans for the next few days are to get away. My sister has a place in Tahoe, and I will head up there Friday after work. I talked to my wife this morning and thanked her for coming over, and told her that she was just as beautiful and sexy and exciting as I remembered. I will leave it at that for the time being. Will anything come of this? Probably not. I do realize that I don’t want to be a booty call or friend with benefits if she stays with OM. But now I can make that call on my own terms.

Fire away.


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
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Kramer-im glad you feel good about yourself, especially after these past six months. it seems like its a good thing, but i have a feeling based on what i have read, that it mightve not been a good idea to do that but I am wondering what the vets think about this?


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I don't disagree with you, nick. It was definitely NOT a good idea, but it happened nonetheless. What I am hoping for now is some advice as to what next...


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
She files D: 1/9/15
She moves out 3/2/15
D papers served 3/18/15
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Hi Kramer, I read your post above and thought - uh o - bad idea...

Just because OM is still on the scene somewhere and your W doesn't sound as though she has woken up. Yes, you may have enjoyed it - but do you really want to become OM to her OM?

I think the part of you that is all happy is the part that has craved the closeness that has been missing recently. But IMHO, there's a price to pay for that. And the price is that you become part of the infidelity web again. In my sitch, I said to my H - that web - that's not for me and that's not what I want in my life. I wont be part of it. And I don't regret that. For sure enough contact with OW has lingered on and off and on and off.....for many months now. And to be part of that is just painful.

As to what next? Well, I would place your expectations at zero, wait for the pull back and carry on DBing...


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Kramer-
IMHO, I think that your W is cake eating. For some women, cake eating could be spending time together, going to events together, or having sex with LBH. Believe it or not, but women can have sex without having feelings for someone according to some WAW on here. From what i have read about WAW and their stories, WAW sexual drive increases when they have an A. The physical need is what she is after.

as for what to do next.....dont put too much into what happened. W could be using you or setting you up. These are just my thoughts and im sure others will disagree. IMO, there is nothing you can do, but just act as if it didnt happen. Next time W ask anything of this sort, just say "No thanks."

Nick


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Originally Posted By: Kramer
I don't disagree with you, nick. It was definitely NOT a good idea, but it happened nonetheless. What I am hoping for now is some advice as to what next...


Ok .. 2x4 time

Thing is Kramer .. you have been here what .. 5 months .. you should and I think do know better, you know what happened was not good, but you caved and went after your needs regardless. So now your W knows .. because you have shown her ... I can have my A, do as I wish ... flirt a touch with my LBH ... sex if I must .. just to make sure he is where I left him, now I can go back and patch things up with OM and continue this .... its a big set back from where I sit.

As far as what to do next ... ok what is done is done right?

First off ... call and get a STD screening done ... think about it. You now have had sex with OM and everyone he has been with ... that should upset you a bit.

Second .. I would think its time for some mirror talk.. what do you want out of this, save the M? You may have to really set some boundaries with your WAW because she seems to be getting what she wants and needs at your expense.

Third ... I'd go dark, let her know that that night was a mistake, has brought up some issues and feelings and you need to figure out what YOU want out of life, your M, and start planning for YOUR future. Of she would like to be a part of that .. great ... but there needs to be some ground rules.


M: 48
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M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but my perspective is that this was nothing more than a booty call, and nothing less than a temp check. Hope that doesn't make you feel cheap. Maybe someone can learn from it.

She should have felt cheap slipping in the back door of your house, but I'm sure to her it was somewhat exciting, b/c that is not how married people act, right? It is acting more like people who are slipping around and having an affair.

I hope you can connect the dots here. Affairs are addictive. It often jump-starts a woman's sex drive. If OM has really stopped having sex with her, then she was probably about ready to find an unlocked door somewhere, and what better place than her H's house?

Now granted, I don't really believe the majority of WW's want to have sex with their H, but some gals are just higher drive than others and it makes little difference to them.

Quote:
I’m going to give some details, because I think they may be relevant.


You know when you told her it meant something different to you than it did her? I find it amazing how a man can talk about how defenseless he is when he's been without sex a long time, but then he seems to think if a woman is obviously sexually excited, it must be b/c she's experiencing those loving feelings for him.

Some WW's find it very stimulating to know she can sexually manipulate a man, even if it is her plan B. They can really get into it, when there is purpose. Call me suspicious, but from what I have learned over the years, whenever a WW suddenly shows up to entice the LBH into having sex with her, you can expect a motive behind it.

It makes no difference what she was wearing. That was not some message she was giving you. (However, I am reading her clearly, I think.) Don't you know that was all planned? She knew you would want it to have "meaning" b/c she wore what you bought for her. And she even wore her ring. In fact, everything you described seems so obvious as to a setup. As I have said, you men are just too easy. If there should be a next time, please try to at least be a little more challenging for her. smile

Quote:
I went to the kitchen and got coffee and we talked.


Maybe she said more than what you told us, but from your post it sounds as though you did most of the talking. IMO, the LBH should not have a lot to say about the R on these matters, until she lets him know she is willing to work and save the M As long as she is connected to OM, she doesn't need to know H's innermost feelings.

The fact she cried does not necessarily mean anything, other than she is sorry she is still unhappy. Remember she's been rejected by her lover. I can understand how men want to place a certain emotional value in a woman's tears, but a WW's emotions are like a roller coaster. It doesn't take much for her to cry. In most cases, her tears are for herself.

Quote:
I asked her about what just happened and why she came over, and she said that she wanted to see if it was awkward. I asked her if it was awkward and she said “No. Actually it feels like we just hit the pause button and things felt just the same as when we were together”. I agreed with her.


Okay, you wanted to hear her tell you what this was really about. You had already observed what she was wearing and every move she made, so you were hoping it meant what you wanted it to be. I get it. But look at her answer, especially the last part. You agreed with her, but are you saying that this was like the R when she started having an A? Or, are you saying that at one time, the sex was good between you? Do you feel like this has just a pause in the M and can go back to how it use to be?

It's not at all unusual, based on people's reports, for a WW to want a test drive to see if the sex feels awkward (in fact, that is the very word they use, "awkward"). And from what she said, it seems she was taking a test drive.

Quote:
She apologized again for making a mess of things and having affair.


Can you remember more specifically what she said about being sorry for the affair? And was she talking about you were unhappy or herself?

My question is, would she be sorry if the OM had not rejected her? Something you need to think about.

Quote:
She again asked why and how I could still love her after what she did.


Most of what she has said to you has been WW script. This last quote has been said by countless numbers of WW's, but it was not them asking to come back to the M. It is temp checking. I think the who thing was temp checking, b/c she wanted to see if you were still her backup plan. You played right into her hands. frown

My advice is to nothing. I mean nothing! No initiating contacts. No more playing this game of connecting to her through her kids (nor keeping track of her through them), no questions, and no pursuing whatsoever.

If you really want this woman to be interested, you had better step back, and put her in the position of chasing you. You will find out if she is serious or not.

She has to go further than just being sorry for the affair (if she really is). She needs to feel true remorse for the pain she has caused you and for betraying her vows. It needs to go deeper than just her being sorry she made a mess of everything (which is another WW script). I am serious about these scripts. If they didn't use the same sentences, word by word, I could disagree.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Toots,

Thanks for replying. I agree that it was not a good idea. I did it for me and it did feel good. I realize that there is a good chance that things are truly over between us. I know that she was temp checking and do not for a minute think that our little tryst was anything other than sex. I also agree that I do not want to perpetuate the infidelity game. This was my opportunity to take back some of the control that she took when she left me. I am not going to become a groveling doormat just because we had sex. I did it for me so that I felt good.

Now back to DB and non pursuit. She knows where to find me if she is interested.


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
She files D: 1/9/15
She moves out 3/2/15
D papers served 3/18/15
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Posts: 250
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Nick,

Thanks for your reply. It definitely was cake eating. However, I was also cake eating with her. The way I see it is that she came to my place, and I did not initiate it. She had to take the "walk of shame" after it was over. She snuck into my house through the backyard. I do not think it was anything more than it was. Sex. She knows what I bring to the table. The next move is up to her, and it will require a hell of a lot more than this.


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
She files D: 1/9/15
She moves out 3/2/15
D papers served 3/18/15
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